S11.E13: It's Not You, It's Miami

[Linda7900]

3 hours ago, film noire said:

Welcome, Linda 7900!  (It's a little early in the morning for cocktails, but then again, this is the RHoNY forum ; )

I’m a G&T girl, and agree it’s always cocktail time in RHONY world!!🥂

[sasha206]

13 hours ago, bravofan27 said:

When Bethanny's hair is long she is CONSTANTLY flipping it. It is EXACTLY Heidi Fleiss. 

This is her during one of her million hair flips. Hair flips are a sign that someone is lying BTW.

I thought her hair looked really thin.  Maybe it's genetic but her body looks way thin this year.  Wonder if she has a hyperactive thyroid?

[hoosier80]

I had this episode on late night, as I was trying to get some sleep (flu or some bug attacking my old body).  Anyhow, I mainly listened rather than watched.

Seemed like kind of the same old shit:  Sonja and Dorinda blitzed out of their minds.  Ramona being a nasty bitch.  Bethenny had some one liners.

What stood out to me - Luann actually saying the other 'girls' were jealous of her 'career'.  The whole cabaret thing seems like a sideshow, a gimmicky deal that will have run its course in a year or so.  Reminds me of Little Edie.

And yeah, Sonja seems like she's either on something or not taking her meds.  Why such a fuss Luann?  I think it's to divert attention away from her.  When she said she's a special all-coholic, that told me, she's not really accepted she has a problem.  She's covertly drinking.  I heard her say a few times, where's my purse??  My first thought, she's got a flask in her purse.  Do the other two - S & D have drinking problems, yes, definitely looks that way, but so does Lu.  She is just doing it on the down low now. 

Bethenny is pissed at Lu because she got her great attorneys, into rehab, etc., when she was floundering.  I think it's more than you're acting a diva, but she won't say it on camera.  She's not stupid and probably suspects Lu of drinking on the sly.  

I think every HW cast is told to turn it up, make it bigger.  So are they getting that drunk, out of control, rude on purpose??  I mean, after the table flip on NJ, and Scary Island - you have to go big to try and top those shows and draw in the ratings.  

Someone said Harry Dubin is like a used cocktail napkin.  Yeah, and maybe a used condom, too.

[KungFuBunny]

3 hours ago, 65mickey said:

Bingo! I thought the same thing about Quincy. She turned 18 last October when they were filming this show. Old man Morgan probably doesn't have to pay for Sonja to accompany Quincy on vacation trips anymore. Also he may no longer be paying child support and that could be a pretty substantial amount of money that Sonja no longer receives. In the past Sonja has mostly been a sloppy drunk not an aggressive one like what we are seeing  now. Something is going on with her other than just having too much to drink.

Do you remember (it might have been 2 seasons ago) Sonja telling the ladies she went to Paris and just stayed at the hotel and stuffed herself with croissants? My take on that was she went on the trip with Quincy and stayed holed up in the hotel because she really wasn't supposed to be there.

I think when Quincy was younger 5 - 16 - Sonja was able to get extra funds to make her townhouse livable as Quincy was under her roof. Once Quincy started going to boarding school the funds weren't available all year round.

I also think Sonja is resentful of Luann. Not jealous as much as she doesn't understand how Luann got an ongoing cabaret when Sonja was the one who started it with her Caburlesque. Nothing ongoing happened for Sonja other than an appearance here and there - and she just won't face that she's just lazy and none would "back her".

[Gem 10]

19 hours ago, sasha206 said:

Amen.

I don't like her Countess stuff and the cabaret shit.  But I've always appreciated Lu's effortless cool which is why I'm still shocked by her arrest.  Out of all the housewives on the show, she seems like she'd be the most normal and fun to hang out with.  I am appalled by the special treatment she is getting since she basically escaped and assaulted a police officer.

Sonja *thinks* she's the *IT* girl that every man wants to fuck but I think she's now the girl that men fuck as a last resort if they can't find someone younger and hotter.  I find it really sad that her identity is either being a Morgan and her former life or her easy sex.  I can appreciate a woman who enjoys sex, but have some discretion.  Being an easy lay isn't some great accomplishment.

Beth is so predictable.  She has to say cock, balls, vagina, gang bang or something of that nature every single episode.  I realize her fame is based on what she thinks is shocking "get off my jock" type of comments, but Uncle.  Try something different like be witty without shock value.  And the way she treats her underlings is appalling.  "Clean my blood soaked vagina pillow."  UGH.  I am always the most disappointed by her because she was so funny naturally and you rooted for her.  She was real back then.  

Yeah, well, didn’t Carole always say “get off my jock”, and she though and acted like royalty.  You’d be surprised at how these “high class” wealthy people talk and get away with it.  Bethenny has no filter, and I’m sure Andy tells her to “let it rip”.  He loves it and that’s why she brings in the big bucks for Bravo.  Nobody’s complaining over there.  Besides, I’m learning some new words, lol.

[SweetieDarling]

16 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

Yeah, well, didn’t Carole always say “get off my jock”, and she though and acted like royalty.  You’d be surprised at how these “high class” wealthy people talk and get away with it.  Bethenny has no filter, and I’m sure Andy tells her to “let it rip”.  He loves it and that’s why she brings in the big bucks for Bravo.  Nobody’s complaining over there.  Besides, I’m learning some new words, lol.

That's not a part of my vocabulary I care to expand. YMMV.

Edited May 31, 2019 by SweetieDarling

[Gem 10]

6 minutes ago, SweetieDarling said:

That's not a part of my vocabulary I care to expand. YMMV.

Me either .. I was joshing.

[Juliegirlj]

Watching Sonja’s mental health deteriorate was not amusing or entertaining. Does she not have anyone in her corner?! She needs help. 

Ramona’s bit with the house staff was fake and stupid. She knows viewers found it funny and polarizing in the past. 

Bethenny is looking worn and gaunt. 

I’m starting to appreciate Barbara.

[Persnickety1]

On 5/29/2019 at 11:43 PM, Long Spot said:

I absolutely agree.

One thing that struck me in addition to how cruel that was to Barbara, was that Ramona kept trying to get Sonja to go out with her.  The woman couldn't stand, couldn't stop yelling, couldn't control herself.  And Ramona wanted to drag her out on the town for more drinks.  What.  The.  Hell.  I can't figure out why Ramona would even want to be seen in public with her in that state. 

Right there with you.  

Everything you said (so well). 

Ooooh, remember back a few seasons ago when Aviva had tea with Ramona and told her that she (Ramona) loves hanging onto/out with drunken Sonja because Sonja makes her (Ramona) look good by comparison?  

I had forgotten all about that until I read your post.  Aviva's theory made sense then and sadly it still makes sense now.  

[hoodooznoodooz]

I am pretty sure that Lu said in this episode “I can do whatever I want” twice. Or some version of that. She has also said something to that effect regarding Tom, two seasons ago. It sounds like something a child would say. I wonder if her mom used to say to her, “Because I’m your mother, and I said so. When you’re an adult, you can do whatever you want.”

It also seems to reflect Lu’s attitude regarding rules, laws, the police and the judicial system.

Edited June 3, 2019 by hoodooznoodooz

[ghoulina]

2 hours ago, hoosier80 said:

And yeah, Sonja seems like she's either on something or not taking her meds. 

Yes. So much talk about what Sonja is ON, but what if she is OFF something? My step-father is bi-polar. Growing up, I saw him go off his mood stabliziers more times than I care to remember. Sonja's behavior did remind me of how he would get super manic when off his meds and not sleeping. Adding alcohol just makes it worse. 

[Dirtybubble]

23 hours ago, ancslove said:

Sadly, I think it’s going to take a Bachelor in Paradise situation to get Bravo to control the drinking.  And even then, it might not work, because these women can ostensibly just buy and bring their own alcohol.  But even that is safer than Bravo providing the drinks, the way they do on these vacation and restaurant trips.

My fear is what it's gonna take is one of these women (either on this show or another H.W. franchise) to drop dead and the family sue Miss Andy and/or Bravo for this sh!t.

[nexxie]

20 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Yes. So much talk about what Sonja is ON, but what if she is OFF something? My step-father is bi-polar. Growing up, I saw him go off his mood stabliziers more times than I care to remember. Sonja's behavior did remind me of how he would get super manic when off his meds and not sleeping. Adding alcohol just makes it worse. 

Bi-polar behavior crossed my mind too - in any case, she needs help. 

[KungFuBunny]

1 hour ago, nexxie said:

Bi-polar behavior crossed my mind too - in any case, she needs help. 

As strange as this might sound - about 2 episodes ago, I began thinking Luann may be bi-polar or manic. To the point I started feeling bad making fun of her (not that I stopped or haven't laughed at all the comments)

My cousin's mother-in-law was bi-polar. She was fine when she was on her meds and she had her husband making sure she took her meds. As they got older, he became forgetful so there were times she didn't take her meds. To the point where - she decided she was cured and stopped taking them.

During this phase, she spent a lot of money - giving it away to a scammer who was building her a church. She also believed she won a big lottery jackpot and that the ticket was at the bank safety deposit. Then when they took her to the bank to retrieve the ticket - she claimed someone probably an inside job stole her ticket. She was never hyped up - but she was really delusional and believed 1000% in a non-existent reality.

This is how I see Luann with her stories. She had an absolutely wonderful marriage to the Count. He loved her so much. Tom is so in love with her, all of the other women are just jealous bitches. Tom never dated Ramona, Tom never fucked Sonja. The Regency Bunny had Tom in her evil clutches. When Bethenny told her that Tom isn't a great guy and there's time for her to get out of it, Luann said Bethenny was projecting on her. When Sonja and Barbara were trying to tell Luann that being in a Cabaret was going to her head. Luann said they think I'm a Cabaret Star, because I am. It's like she hears every other word - and she is totally vested and believes in her own crazy narrative.

I also think Luann's drinking is heavily connected to the Cabaret. She started drinking more once she started rehearsing for the original Cabaret engagement at Feinstein's. I also think she was getting heavy into the coke. I think the increase in alcohol was to give her courage and calm her nerves. I think it's a very different thing to lip sync for 2 minutes to one song as opposed to talking, entertaining,using her actual voice to sing in front of an audience for 1 - 2 hours. Her original episode in Palm Beach with the arrest - she was drunk + something else (I think coke) - prior to that point she was still handling the liquor/other as usual.

I don't think Luann will ever really admit that she has a problem because I think in her current state she doesn't think she even has a problem - other than when she pretends she understands in court. I also don't think she has stopped drinking, she needs that drink before a show.

[Ellee]

So ... next week we get to see Mario.  Looks a little awkward.  

Still think Sonja and Mario were ‘doing it’ behind Ramona’s back.  Sonja looks pretty lit again.  And bringing up Harry!  Not even drunk on my butt would I do that to a friend  

Dorinda’s cross-pollination pretty much sums it up. 

Preview from  Bravo site

[KungFuBunny]

Oy

[Gem 10]

On 5/30/2019 at 8:13 AM, Coffeewinewater said:

I understand they were pissed at Lu for her entitled behavior.  However that shitstorm made them all look like hypocrites. 

Ramona's been a bitch so many times nothing she does surprises me. But I felt so bad for Barbara.  Damn, that was ice cold. That is why I can never like Ramona,  yeah I can laugh at her and all her stupid antics but,   I will always see her as the nastiest HW ever.

Sonja is freaking crazy. At Lu's rehearsal she was exactly the way I've seen her on wwhl the last few times. Talking over everyone rambling on and  on about a conversation that she can only hear. 

She's that upset about Harry Dubin???😂 ok? 

Ramona kissing Harry Dubin??🤢

I feel bad for Barbara.  Someone’s always picking on her.  I’ve grown to like her.

[Gem 10]

59 minutes ago, Ellee said:

So ... next week we get to see Mario.  Looks a little awkward.  

Still think Sonja and Mario were ‘doing it’ behind Ramona’s back.  Sonja looks pretty lit again.  And bringing up Harry!  Not even drunk on my butt would I do that to a friend  

Dorinda’s cross-pollination pretty much sums it up. 

Preview from  Bravo site

Why is Mario going?  For what purpose?

[ladle]

The women have really good points about Luann, but if Drunk Sonja were screaming at me I'd get up and leave the table too. 

[Ellee]

18 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

Why is Mario going?  For what purpose?

My bet is that the 3 of them have come up with next season’s storyline.  😁

[AttackTurtle]

Luanne was completely right about Sonja.  I also think she was right about Dorinda in Cartegenia (sp? Sorry); however her ego is out of control and she accepts zero responsibility for her behavior so Lu can take a seat.

The rest of the ladies do need to step in and do something about Sonja. I’d say the same about Dorinda, but that would just light a fire, they wouldn’t be able to put out.

I gotta admit, the scene of Dorinda making the drink cracked me up.  I’ll give this to Luanne, she handles her booze much more gracefully than Dorinda/Sonja...with the exception of that time you know...she got arrested.

Edited May 31, 2019 by AttackTurtle

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, Gem 10 said:

Why is Mario going?  For what purpose?

I don’t know if he still does or if he stopped when he broke up with his girlfriend but he used to split his time between West Palm Beach and NYC so I think he is already in Florida.

[MrsPatrickBateman]

It really bothers me that had it been reversed and there was an older guy who was completely wasted and cornering some poor female worker who felt she couldn't leave to keep her job there would be outrage and rightfully so.

Tej took it like a champ and I commend him for it but no one deserves to be put in such an awkward and uncomfortable situation. Someone should have stepped in on his behalf. It stops being funny when someone is visibly uncomfortable.

Edited June 1, 2019 by MrsPatrickBateman

[ivygirl]

18 minutes ago, MrsPatrickBateman said:

Tej took it like a champ and I commend him.for it but no one deserves to be put in such an awkward and uncomfortable situation. Someone should have stepped in on his behalf. It stops being funny when someone is visibly uncomfortable.

Tej (“like rage”) really did. I felt horribly for him but he played it as best he could while remaining professional and also cognizant of the fact that he was on TV (Not that he was playing for the cameras—more that the cameras were on him and he needed to remain calm). He was kind of like Jim reacting to Michael Scott. But of course this was real life and no one deserves to actually experience such inappropriate behavior. 

Edited June 1, 2019 by ivygirl

[MrsPatrickBateman]

Now that I finished the episode, another thing that bothers me is Beth feeding into Sonja and her drunkenness instead of trying to shut it down.

Obviously Sonja and Dorinda were in a bad way and while Luanne is on a high horse this all stemmed from Harry so come on. She was drunk and belligerent and needed to be put to bed and given no more drinks. Not told she was right and Luanne was ridiculous, in fact so ridiculous that Beth was going to go find her at that exact moment. Then continued to wind Sonja up and then when Sonja fell Beth is pushing Barbara aside to be the first to get to her. 🙄

[albarino]

On 5/30/2019 at 11:23 AM, LibertarianSlut said:

Yes, this!  Bethenny swooping in from Washington, D.C., at the eleventh hour and deciding to invade Luann's personal space to "talk, not listen," was about the most tone-deaf thing I have ever seen.  I think a normal person would watch this episode back and feel ashamed for attacking the only person who was sane, sober and appropriate, but it's Bethenny, the woman who has such balls that she must get her pants specially tailored.

I feel like we watched different shows but I know you don't like Bethenny so your comments track.

I disagree.

The pack was so completely unhinged; I wish we would have seen production intervening.  All of it was too, too much. Too much.  When did all of this go from fun to some sort of TLC show on "those using."

[hoodooznoodooz]

Another poster wrote about this, and I didn’t understand. I’m rewatching now. Lu asks Beth if she noticed Sonja’s been “uppity”? But Lu meant “manic”?  That’s hilarious.

Edited June 1, 2019 by hoodooznoodooz

[LibertarianSlut]

I'm going to take the idea that my "comments track" because I am not a fan of Bethenny as a neutral observation, and not a criticism that my dislike of Bethenny is blinding me.  I am learning not to attribute malice to something that can be attributed to...something else.

I don't like Bethenny anymore; this much is true.  But what's funny is that, from the previews, with Bethenny screaming at Sonja to "go to sleep!" I was waiting for Bethenny to swoop in and create order and I was preparing all week to give her credit for that, because she's actually good in a crisis.

Bethenny is not like a personal ememy of mine.  I thought her dress was pretty and her "zero dark thirty" TH was actually hilarious.  I even thought it was darkly funny when the assistant said she wasn't sure if she could fit the pink hat into Bethenny's suitcase, and Bethenny was just kind of like, "fit it."  I like that she doesn't pretend to kiss her employees' asses just cause the camera is on.

But when Bethenny heard them talking about the murder Luann committed the fact that Luann was overselling her cabaret number and marched upstairs to confront Luann, because it was either "talking about it behind her back" or "talking about it to her face," she was a flying asshole from hell.  How about...rise above and don't talk about it at all?  When @film noire brilliantly dressed Bethenny down in last week's thread, she said that the old Bethenny used to be very good at listening and kind of egging people on and smiling and nodding like they were all crazy.  What happened to that Bethenny?  Or how about changing the subject?  Stop talking about Luann.  She would hate that.

On this show, for reasons I can articulate and reasons I can't articulate, I try to be objective and call balls and strikes, but I am more inclined to cut Luann slack, and then Ramona.  Bethenny is so harsh that, yes, I have a guttural instinct to serve it back to her indirectly.  I would never, ever try to Tweet her; I don't care that much.  Sonja I just fucking hate.  Tinsley and Dorinda fall in the middle and vary from episode to episode (for me), but overall this cast doesn't work as well as it did in most prior seasons.  I have said before that I would like it to be bigger, and if they could bring Jill and Aviva back, it would be much better.  If I could Tweet, I would much sooner Tweet Aviva to see if she wants to come back to the show than waste time on Bethenny.

I think I have said absolutely scathing things about all of these women this season.  When it opened, I was loaded for bear for Luann, and she just won me back over with her charming obliviousness, her misplaced joie de vivre, her refusal to lay back and take it, and the help of the other women being such beasts.  When Bethenny goes back to season three and gets her charm, sweetness (remember how sweet she was at Ramona's vow renewal when she pulled Alex and Ramona aside to tell them how much they came through for her this year and she was almost moved to tears!) or manners back, I'll probably cut her some slack the way I cut it for Lu or anyone who is not Bethenny or Sonja.

[Rubyslippahz]

This episode was ugly!

The treatment of particularly Tej, but to a lesser extent the bartender and the manager guy, was beyond the pale and so disrespectful and speaks volumes about some of these women.  I heartily agree with those that said what if this was a bunch of 50ish men treating young female house staff on TV this way? Major scandal. 

I felt really uncomfortable and I've watched this show from the first season. There always has been the bizarre "unpack my clothes" power play that Ramona has pulled for years, which IMO is often a game of hey brown person, I'm going to use you to the nth degree.  Plus now there's the sexual desperation mixed with harassment schtick that she also pulled with her swim teacher and various contractors. 

But Sonja was just ON Tej and it was really awful.  He handled it beautifully but it wasn't funny. 

I too remember Sonja at Scary Island - she was sane and wry and caring and elegant.  Now, when Dorinda is slurring about how blasted you are that is a withering indictment of your behavior.

Bethenny running to scold Luann was ridiculous. Especially her gratuitous dig about staying away from the drinking when Luann had already swiftly removed herself from the dinner table horror.  Beth and Lu had really nice dresses on though.  

Between flopping on the floor head injuries (Sonja), falling into bushes (Lu) and lacerations with knives (Dorinda) the sh*t that goes down on these trips is downright hazardous.  

[hoodooznoodooz]

Did anyone else notice when Sonja says, “Can’t [Harry] just stay away from my girlfriends?” she sounds just like Rosie Pope/Pregnant in Heels (“Every morning, a thousand bees sting my tongue”)?

[ButterQueen]

On 5/30/2019 at 9:43 AM, MMLEsq said:

I'm not sure if this was sarcasm or a serious question.  For the avoidance of doubt, Dorinda threatened to send a lawyer's letter....basically a warning to Lu not to talk about Dorinda in her cabaret show.

No, you're definitely not.  I think she has the worst voice of all the wannabe RH singers.  Apparently being able to sing well is not a requirement in cabaret shows.

I don’t think Lu has a great voice but good for her.  She’s doing something she loves and people are paying to watch.

I really hate when B shows up in her MOM mode.  You know, to tell the little ones how bad they are.

[langford peel]

I don’t know why John stays with Dorinda

She makes it drunk, argumentative, abusive and slatternly. 

Edited June 1, 2019 by langford peel

[film noire]

4 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I think I have said absolutely scathing things about all of these women this season. 

Libertarian Slut, you have been a (delightfully) equal offender to all the housewives :)

Quote

When it opened, I was loaded for bear for Luann

I'm still loaded for Lubear, but jesus, she was right to leave that table, so points to her  (and that gorgeous dress). 

I thought it was interesting how quickly Frankel ended the "I'm here to talk, not listen" confrontation - as if she sensed dressing down Luann (especially such a subdued Luann) might not be the hill to die on. 

And I wonder if that unspent energy is what drove that strange scene with Sonja, right after she told Bethenny and Dorinda they weren't hot, not like Sonja with a J (which stands for jitney!) Frankel's reaction was all kinds of WTF ("Go to bed or go out. I'm going to knock you out. I'm going to fucking knock you out. I'm going to fucking knock you out. Try it, take your best shot.") So unsettling, even for Frankel. Where's the humour - or just plain old effectiveness in boozehound-wrangling -  in telling a blind drunk you're going to slap the shit out of her unless she goes out, or goes to bed?

Edited June 1, 2019 by film noire

[Happy Camper]

After watching this episode, I felt drained and sort of, well, dirty. I couldn't watch it again. 

I will watch next week, but I can't foresee any of them being enjoyable to watch after this. How can they possible redeem themselves?

(Well, I will excuse Tinsley, but she needs to get herself away from this bunch, before she turns)

I knew that B was coming in with attitude when I noticed upon her arrival that she was wearing sunglasses in the dark.

Edited June 1, 2019 by Happy Camper

[Kiki777]

On May 30, 2019 at 5:35 PM, Claire Voyant said:

I had a friend diagnosed with bipolar disorder and when she went manic, she acted A LOT like Sonja is acting.  Just talk, talk, talk, talk all the time

I hope your friend got the help she needed.  And this makes total sense regarding Sonja.  Have you ever seen her on WWHL?  She's sober and she still talks incessantly.  Even when the focus is on the other guest or Andy she is constantly interjecting.

On May 30, 2019 at 8:29 PM, RHJunkie said:

Why wait to go on vacation and unleash your wrath on Lu when she's actually been on her good behaviour? Why not address these issues in a moment where she's demonstrating the behaviour you're accusing her of instead of waiting for a chill vacation and ruining it all with bad vibes because you got so drunk that you had to let alcohol manage your problems for you.

This is Dog Training 101.  Don't scold the puppy AFTER she shits on the floor/bed/jitney, but WHILE she is in the process of shitting.  Otherwise she will not understand that she is doing something foul and wrong.

[65mickey]

After watching this show I came to the following conclusions. All of these women with the exception of Bethenny are overcompensating with their actions because of a loss in their lives. And this loss stems from a man leaving them either by death or divorce. LuAnn cannot accept the loss of the count and her former life as a society matron. She tried to land a man any many and look what she got with Tom. Now she sees her self as a successful cabaret star wowing audiences worldwide. Not a man but still adulation. Sonja no longer the high society lady Morgan so she lives in the past mentioning her former spouse and the Morgan name to whomever will listen. She overcompensates by drinking and presenting herself as an aging sex kitten. Dorinda will never move on from the sainted Richard. John will never measure up and she tell us and him that on a regular basis. She overcompensates with the alcohol and this turns her from a lovely gracious lady into a mean shrill drunk. She is one step away from assaulting someone in a drunken rage. Ramona seems to have recovered from her divorce but tries ever so hard to be a 40 year old hottie in a 62 year old body. She screams look at me look at me when I go out all these young men and women approach me. Tinsley needs to be a sociey wife married to a rich man to be happy. She learned this from her mother. She will never be attract a  man until she changes her clinging childish behavior.  Bethenny doesn't chase men to be happy. Money drives her sense of self worth and she uses and disposes of men like kleenex and moves on to the next one. Barbara accepts herself for what she is. A successful business owner. She doesn't need these women or a man. What she is doing with these women I don't know. They look down their noses as if she is not worthy of being seen in public with them. Run Barbara.  On a lighter note everytime someone accuses LuAnn of being on her high horse it reminds me of Gretchen from the OC accusing one of the OC ladies of tooting their high horn. Getting her metaphors mixed up.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Just watched the episode - my conclusion is that as much as they have a right to complain to Lu about her attitude, both Sonja and Dorinda have some particularly deep-seated substance issues that makes it hard for me to take their side.

I've made my issues with Dorinda clear - I think she is vicious, and I cannot stand the fact that she thinks she's so tough. I am not sure what she thinks a lawyer is going to do to prevent Luanne from mentioning her in the Cabaret. It's not like anything that Luanne said is slanderous.  And I am so sick of her hypocrisy about "making things nice" when she consistently hits below the belt.

I also think Bethenny was wrong to claim that Luanne was wrong when she was not at the table and therefore was not able to observe how out of control both Sonja and Dorinda were towards Lu. I get that Beth has some real (and understandable) issues with some of the things that Lu has said about her.  But to claim that Sonja and Dorinda were "right" about Lu's attitude when both were in the state they were in? Beth was way out of line. 

[Ellee]

To be quite honest I was always of the belief that it was all the behind the scenes bs that we don’t see that creates these kinds of situations. Being the most talked about (good or bad) means higher salary and more headlines. Oh and more headlines mean an even higher salary.  

What amazes me is the extent that these women go to be the ‘headliner’.  

And what is kind of embarrassing is the fact that none of these intelligent women seem to realize the damage that they are doing to themselves/their images and the people close to them.  Ask Koo Koo Kelly what she lived through after Scary Island.   (I kind of made my point here — I still call her Koo Koo Kelly)

I used to love mocking JKL back in the day so I can’t believe I’m typing this but I think it’d be interesting to have Jill come back on in any capacity.   Would be interesting to see the interaction between Jill and LuLu - who has the supposed upper hand,  see if Bethenny reverts to more like a victim personality than the aggressor and where Sonja and Ramona land in the scheme of things.  Lol ... just see how the scheme of things plays out.   

I don’t know.  Anyone have any opinions on this?

ETA:  Maybe..just maybe Jason/little Bryn can be left alone and excluded from RHONY altogether.  Bryn might get to be the sweet little girl some of us picture her to be or want her to be. 

Edited June 1, 2019 by Ellee

[Gem 10]

15 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Just watched the episode - my conclusion is that as much as they have a right to complain to Lu about her attitude, both Sonja and Dorinda have some particularly deep-seated substance issues that makes it hard for me to take their side.

I've made my issues with Dorinda clear - I think she is vicious, and I cannot stand the fact that she thinks she's so tough. I am not sure what she thinks a lawyer is going to do to prevent Luanne from mentioning her in the Cabaret. It's not like anything that Luanne said is slanderous.  And I am so sick of her hypocrisy about "making things nice" when she consistently hits below the belt.

I also think Bethenny was wrong to claim that Luanne was wrong when she was not at the table and therefore was not able to observe how out of control both Sonja and Dorinda were towards Lu. I get that Beth has some real (and understandable) issues with some of the things that Lu has said about her.  But to claim that Sonja and Dorinda were "right" about Lu's attitude when both were in the state they were in? Beth was way out of line. 

Actually, I think they are all jealous of Lu and her act and are frustrated and unhappy within themselves.  Beth wasn’t at the table, therefore had no right to chastise Lu, but she has a long-standing bitch with her from way back and now is peeved that Lu doesn’t appreciate her helping when Lu bought the house.  Beth shouldn’t have gotten involved.  The others were all juiced up and crazy.

[Gem 10]

16 minutes ago, Ellee said:

To be quite honest I was always of the belief that it was all the behind the scenes bs that we don’t see that creates these kinds of situations. Being the most talked about (good or bad) means higher salary and more headlines. Oh and more headlines mean an even higher salary.  

What amazes me is the extent that these women go to be the ‘headliner’.  

And what is kind of embarrassing is the fact that none of these intelligent women seem to realize the damage that they are doing to themselves/their images and the people close to them.  Ask Koo Koo Kelly what she lived through after Scary Island.   (I kind of made my point here — I still call her Koo Koo Kelly)

I used to love mocking JKL back in the day so I can’t believe I’m typing this but I think it’d be interesting to have Jill come back on in any capacity.   Would be interesting to see the interaction between Jill and LuLu - who has the supposed upper hand,  see if Bethenny reverts to more like a victim personality than the aggressor and where Sonja and Ramona land in the scheme of things.  Lol ... just see how the scheme of things plays out.   

I don’t know.  Anyone have any opinions on this?

ETA:  Maybe..just maybe Jason/little Bryn can be left alone and excluded from RHONY altogether.  Bryn might get to be the sweet little girl some of us picture her to be or want her to be. 

Hmmm.. I don’t know about Jill.  Bobby probably left her well off, and she has a nice boyfriend now, so would she put herself in a position to interject with these crazies?  If I can remember, I don’t think she was a big drinker and fighter.  Maybe I’m wrong.  I think she would be the most sensible of the group tho. She doesn’t need the money, so I don’t know if she would want to be a regular.  I can’t figure out who she would be pals with.  Whatever, Andy has the say. We shall see.  I have a feeling Barbara and Tinsley will go off at the end of the season.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

23 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

Actually, I think they are all jealous of Lu and her act and are frustrated and unhappy within themselves.  Beth wasn’t at the table, therefore had no right to chastise Lu, but she has a long-standing bitch with her from way back and now is peeved that Lu doesn’t appreciate her helping when Lu bought the house.  Beth shouldn’t have gotten involved.  The others were all juiced up and crazy.

I don't know if they all are, but I do think Sonja is jealous of the cabaret success. It's clear from the Big Apple Circus thing that Sonja loves being the center of attention, and loves upstaging her co-stars. I wouldn't be surprised is a part of the reason she visited Lu's rehearsal is because she thought she could wheedle her way into a permanent role in the act. 

With Dorinda, I don't know that she's jealous but I do think she is deeply unhappy with herself and her life. And I think she tends to lash out at the most convenient target, who makes her feel unhappy. Last season it was Beth, this season it's been Lu and Barbara. Next season it will be someone else because Dorinda has some real problems that she is burying under alcohol and her grudges.

3 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

Hmmm.. I don’t know about Jill.  Bobby probably left her well off, and she has a nice boyfriend now, so would she put herself in a position to interject with these crazies?  If I can remember, I don’t think she was a big drinker and fighter.  Maybe I’m wrong.  I think she would be the most sensible of the group tho. She doesn’t need the money, so I don’t know if she would want to be a regular.  I can’t figure out who she would be pals with.  Whatever, Andy has the say. We shall see.  I have a feeling Barbara and Tinsley will go off at the end of the season.

Jill wasn't that big of a drinker, that is true. But I wouldn't call her sensible - she was a little obsessed with manipulating the story line about Bethenny (whatever Beth's faults are, I think she was right that Jill saw Beth's life as something she could control, and that was pretty gross).  I think she misses the spotlight and would jump at the chance to return to the show if she were ever asked to - she is still pretty friendly with Lu, I think. 

[Gem 10]

5 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I don't know if they all are, but I do think Sonja is jealous of the cabaret success. It's clear from the Big Apple Circus thing that Sonja loves being the center of attention, and loves upstaging her co-stars. I wouldn't be surprised is a part of the reason she visited Lu's rehearsal is because she thought she could wheedle her way into a permanent role in the act. 

With Dorinda, I don't know that she's jealous but I do think she is deeply unhappy with herself and her life. And I think she tends to lash out at the most convenient target, who makes her feel unhappy. Last season it was Beth, this season it's been Lu and Barbara. Next season it will be someone else because Dorinda has some real problems that she is burying under alcohol and her grudges.

Jill wasn't that big of a drinker, that is true. But I wouldn't call her sensible - she was a little obsessed with manipulating the story line about Bethenny (whatever Beth's faults are, I think she was right that Jill saw Beth's life as something she could control, and that was pretty gross).  I think she misses the spotlight and would jump at the chance to return to the show if she were ever asked to - she is still pretty friendly with Lu, I think. 

Yeah, jealous was the wrong word.  More like envious that Lu is happy to be on stage in her own world and thinks she’s a star, for now.

[Ellee]

7 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

Yeah, jealous was the wrong word.  More like envious that Lu is happy to be on stage in her own world and thinks she’s a star, for now.

Or envious because Sonja’s attempt didn’t go anywhere. 

Didnt Sonja attempt to perform a year or two back?

[car54]

Sonja tried to do burlesque.     I always felt like it was a little embarrassing.

https://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-6/episode-4/videos/sonja-morgans-caburlesque

[Gem 10]

3 minutes ago, Ellee said:

Or envious because Sonja’s attempt didn’t go anywhere. 

Didnt Sonja attempt to perform a year or two back?

Yes, when she took off her dress.  That went over real well ..NOT, lol.

[snarts]

2 hours ago, Ellee said:

I used to love mocking JKL back in the day so I can’t believe I’m typing this but I think it’d be interesting to have Jill come back on in any capacity.   Would be interesting to see the interaction between Jill and LuLu - who has the supposed upper hand,  see if Bethenny reverts to more like a victim personality than the aggressor and where Sonja and Ramona land in the scheme of things.  Lol ... just see how the scheme of things plays out.   

I don’t know.  Anyone have any opinions on this?

I wouldn't mind seeing Jill either.  She doesn't drink at all from what I remember and it would nice to add another sober voice to the group. 

2 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

Yeah, jealous was the wrong word.  More like envious that Lu is happy to be on stage in her own world and thinks she’s a star, for now.

They're definitely envious of the show's success and the storyline & attention Luann gets from it which is why Sonja showed up at the rehearsal.

If Bethenny had her druthers, she'd be the only one with any successful outside ventures.  She continually mocks everything Ramona & Sonja are involved in, and barely acknowledges Tinsley's existence, let alone support her events.  

[hoodooznoodooz]

11 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

Yes, when she took off her dress.  That went over real well ..NOT, lol.

Sonja has attempted caburlesque. She stood with her back to the audience, shaking her saddle bags. It was embarrassing to watch, yet Sonja deemed it a success. She thinks that a lot of people love her act, her schtick. I do get the impression that many gay men think she’s a hoot. 

But do they respect her. 

I wonder if, when Sonja is intoxicated, she becomes really depressed because, she is a reliable booty call, but Harry married Aviva, Tom married Lu, Ben approached Lu for the cabaret show.  Sonja, as Dorinda pointed out, outwardly basks in her cheap floozy image, but perhaps deep down she wants to be taken seriously. 

To be honest, I am not entirely sure Ben and Billy respect Lu. 

Edited June 2, 2019 by hoodooznoodooz

[langford peel]

Jill would le be a great addition. She will mix it up became se she has so much history with this group. 

Plus Jill vs Dorinda will be worth the price of admission.

[RHJunkie]

4 hours ago, Kiki777 said:

I hope your friend got the help she needed.  And this makes total sense regarding Sonja.  Have you ever seen her on WWHL?  She's sober and she still talks incessantly.  Even when the focus is on the other guest or Andy she is constantly interjecting.

This is Dog Training 101.  Don't scold the puppy AFTER she shits on the floor/bed/jitney, but WHILE she is in the process of shitting.  Otherwise she will not understand that she is doing something foul and wrong.

That was poor dog training though. She wasn't IN the process of being an inconsiderate diva. By addressing the issue without any cause in the moment, they likely reinforced in her mind that it's them that has a problem with her and her success. To address it while in the process would be to call out the behaviour on the spot as she's demonstrating it. Calling out things after the fact or before they happen will either lead to Lu pushing back and requesting a plethora of examples to substantiate their accusations against OR it will give Lu examples of how she's minding her business and trying to have fun and these girls want to make it about her and bringing her down from the good space she's in. I agree with your concept, I don't agree that is what the women did.

[Gem 10]

15 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Sonja has attempted caburlesque. She stood with her back to the audience, shaking her saddle bags. It was embarrassing to watch, yet Sonja deemed it a success. She thinks that a lot of people love her act, her schtick. I do get the impression that many gay men think she’s a hoot. 

But do they respect her. 

I wonder if, when Sonja is intoxicated, she  becomes really depressed because, she is a reliable booty call, but Harry married Aviva, Tom married Lu, Ben approached Lu for the cabaret show.  Sonja, as Dorinda pointed out, outwardly basks in her cheap floozy image, but perhaps deep down she wants to be taken seriously. 

To be honest, I am not entirely sure Ben and Billy respect Lu. 

She brings in the bucks, that’s it.  She can’t sing and she’s not a comedian.  My daughter said she sings about three songs, then her “friends” come on stage and do their thing.  She’s not on Long at all.  She has a tremendous amount of gay guys that absolutely go wild for her.  

Sonja is probably depressed.  How many more years can she be a sex kitten and fall all over every man?  She’d be better off to buy a big nice t.v. and stay home and join some nice respectable clubs.  She’s running out of steam.  I think she needs the Bravo check tho.