S08.E05: The Bells

[Lady S.]

17 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

But now that Dany has razed the city and its tax-paying inhabitants, where is Dany going to get the money and labor force to rebuild the city? Or is she going to abandon it and rule from Dragonstone? What does she expect the survivors to do? Just live in the rubble and thank her for destroying their homes and killing their families?

Not that I think Dany's really thinking long-term, but there's no reason the capital can't be built pretty much anywhere else. It's a big country. The survivors of this second King's Landing sacking probably don't number enough for their opinions to matter.

Last week @Drogo pointed out that the Golden Company captain looked like a bargain basement Jaime and tonight as soon as he rode out my first thought was that he copied Jaime again with the white horse.

[steelyis]

6 hours ago, QuinnM said:

Totes agree.  She drew the fire of the scorpion, evaded the spear and then took out the device while it was realoading.

Cersei really overestimated her position.

Someone pick up the phone because I called that shit!😜

And let's face it, three dragons was over-kill to begin with; Cersei never stood a chance.

6 hours ago, LuvScottishAccents said:

I have read that D&D said they are going off the grid for the finale.

That would be very wise of them.

4 hours ago, taurusrose said:

Just because Dany says Jon betrayed her does not make it so.  In her mind Jon betrayed her.  But Jon never agreed not to tell his family about his real identity. And if Jon knows nothing (so tired of that stupid line) then neither does Dany.  She knew what kind of person Jon was. Presumably, that's one of the reasons she fell for him.  She knew nothing if she thought Jon would keep secrets from his Stark sibling/cousins.  And Jon's trust in Sansa was misplaced.  I get he thinks blood is thicker than water, but seriously, Jon.  How many times does Sansa have stab you in the back before you put her down?  

If Dany doesn't know by now Jon Snow is gonna Jon Snow, that's on her.

1 hour ago, ulkis said:

That was the problem for me. I felt like the writers didn't necessarily feel that Jaime and Cersei were OTP but more so that they stanned Cersei/Lena Headley so much they wrote as favorably as they could for her without redeeming her.

I mean, can you blame them? Lena was a queen long before she played one on Game of Thrones.

[ulkis]

On 5/13/2019 at 5:20 AM, steelyis said:

I mean, can you blame them? Lena was a queen long before she played one on Game of Thrones.

Well yes I can. I think Headey did great in the large dramatic moments but otherwise she had resting smirk face.

Edited May 15, 2019 by ulkis

[Luckylyn]

I think Jon is going to end up killing Drogon or we’ll get a scene of Dany trying to burn Jon only to have Drogon refuse.   Jon will either win Drogon’s loyalty over Dany or he’ll kill him as part of trying to neutralize Dany.  

Dany’s gone past the point of no return.  Jon and Tyrion have to do something.  The Dany that would murder innocent children even when the enemy has surrendered is not fit to rule.  I would have preferred that instead she violated the surrender only to go after Cersei accidentally setting off a wildfire chain reaction like others have suggested.  She still would have been crossing a line because going after Cersei violating the rules of surrender and Dany had been warned about the risk of wildfire.  

I think Jon will break the will.  He’ll use force to get Dany off the throne and refuse to take it for himself.   Then, Westeros becomes democratic.  Or possibly Jon gives each of the 7 territories independence, and we’ll get 7 kingdoms. 

The length of this season has been detrimental to storytelling.  There wasn’t enough time to build story arcs in ways that felt satisfying and organic.  

[txvoodoo]

Game of...what throne?? The danged Iron Throne is now under a pile of Red Keep. 

[Detective005]

I loved this episode because we have to be honest: it was fantastic, well filmed and played by actors. But there are profoundly wrong showrunner choices. How is it possible that dany went mad in one day? Suddenly a dragon is enough to destroy all scorpions and the entire fleet? Why did the other dragons look so weak? Why did Dany kill everyone indiscriminately? He never made actions like these ...

[WaltersHair]

I'm working with someone who loves Varys and hasn't seen episode 5. She keeps say how great it would be if he was the ruler because he always does what's best for the 7 kingdoms. I'm dying inside just a little.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I just realized that I only posted about the things I disliked about this episode, but there are things I liked too!

I loved Arya and the Hound just strolling through the streets of King's Landing like they were on their way to the pub for a drink.

I loved Jaime and Tyrion's farewell, both of them knowing that they would probably never see each other again. Although I know that Dany will see what he did as a betrayal, I understand that he was trying the biggest Hail Mary in the hopes that they could avoid unnecessary death and carnage. As much as Tyrion hates Cersei, he knows that Jaime is the only one with a chance in hell of convincing her to do anything. On top of that, he loves Jaime. Tyrion has had many things in his life, but love is not one of the things he's had a lot of. Jaime is probably the only person who has truly loved him, so I understand him wanting to free his brother from Dany's soldiers.

I loved that although you might question their methods, Tyrion and Varys were the ones trying to do what's best for the kingdom and the people and that they were both willing to die in the effort, which is not something I would have expected back in S1.

[paigow]

2 hours ago, Minneapple said:

Instead of Snow days, it has Fire days....

[30 Helens]

I don’t think it’s fair to condemn a story before the story’s over. Who knows what could happen next week? And even after it’s over, I won’t fault it if it’s not what I wanted or envisioned. Storytellers have a right to tell their story, in their own way. An audience member can like it or not, but not liking it doesn’t automatically mean it was a bad story. 

This week, I thought it was a great story. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. Moments of horror and holy-crap-what-just-happened mixed with moments of tenderness and strength. The farewell between Tyrion and Jaime was touching and perfect; ditto the farewell between Arya and the Hound. Her calling him “Sandor” was a small humanizing moment that brought tears to my eyes. 

The Hound dying in fire was fated and horrible, but also perfect. And Jaime and Cersei... there’s no other way their story could have ended. Of course he went back to her. He loved her despite everything; that was his fatal flaw.  Her love for Jaime, her children, and yes, even Tyrion (though she always denied it) was her only saving grace. She was a monster, but she was a human monster, and both she and Jaime got the tragic ending they were always destined to have.

As for Dany... I haven’t decided how I feel about her yet. My kneejerk reaction is that her transformation was too rushed, and that another episode before this one would have helped in setting up the events of this week, but I will reserve judgement until after it’s all over.

In any event, it’s not my story, so it’s not for me to decide how it plays out. I hope that when it’s over, I will want to go back and rewatch the whole thing. I do think this is one of those shows that need to be reflected upon, and evaluated after some time has passed. High expectations often lead to standards that cannot possibly be met, at least at first glance. But speaking only for myself: so far, I’m not disappointed.

[Lady S.]

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Ah, Jaime and Cersei.  Nikolaj Coster-Waldeau and Lena Headey sold the hell out of it and, again, I do like the whole idea that Jaime was simply too enamored to ever fully break away from his sister, 

I don't think it was so much that he was still enamored of her as his self-loathing kept him bound to her and unable to start over with the morally pure Brienne, who he also loved. And Cersei was still carrying their last child. Letting his pregnant sister-lover die alone miles away while he forgot all about her to start a new life with a woman he didn't deserve was just too hard for him. 

Dany really was Cersei's younger, more beautiful queen, taking away Cersei's throne, her pride, her castle, her twin/lover, her life and her unborn baby's all at once. That's everything Cersei could hold dear, right?

Also, Nikolaj and Lena's chemistry at the end was the best it's ever been. I'd ask where that was the last two seasons but I think their relationship was meant to be on fumes then. It was only when Jaime chose death over freedom that it all became so powerful.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Lady S.

[Butless]

7 hours ago, hypnotoad said:

Well of course ... the woman who freed slaves would naturally suddenly and with no reason kill everyone in sight. Dany has certainly been ruthless at different points, but she's also been fair and strong. Now? She's insane! In 2 episodes!

I know I posted in the live chat that in war civilians die ... I don't believe Cersei would have given up even with the bells ringing but Kings Landing certainly didn't deserve all that. I take my original post back. I think I just went slightly insane like Dany ... well she's full on mad but I felt the effects for a brief moment and typed without thinking.

I seriously have no idea what I just watched. Now I'm supposed to believe Dany is a worse person than Cersei?!? Cersei who got a tragic, romantic end??? All of Jamie's progress? Gone. Jon did nothing.

WTF has happened to this show? I am so pissed.

I hope that GRRM fed them this plot and ending. I hope he decided to mislead them, so his book would have a different ending, and show Benioff and Weiss for the hacks that they are. When the source material ran out for these assholes, then we got to see how brilliant they are. Who bought their careers for them? Because they are mediocre, at best. Talk about failing upwards, these two dolts.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Tyrion: It was me.
Varys: I know it was you, Fredo. You broke my heart.

[displayname]

I'm here only because my Twitter tl is filled with spoilers and rage.

Hahaha, take that, can't be disappointed and angry if you don't watch!

[BooBear]

3 hours ago, Glade said:

I don't really buy that Dany would decide to destroy civilian houses and her own future castle for no reason.  Maybe if we could have seen through her eyes, like she was having visions of Ceirsei or ice dragons atop every building?  Ceirsie atop zombie Rheagal?  Something?  And Grey Worm's forces just start slaughtering women out of nowhere, without even receiving orders from Dany (she could have shouted 'kill them all' as she flew by or something.)

In prior years of this show I might have assumed the fact that we didn't see anything going on with her while she was on the dragon until the bells rang could leave opening for some trick to be happening... such as Gray Worm and Dany knowing it was the signal to release wildfire.  But I have lost faith that this show hasn't just gotten lazy. It was unforgivable for the *battle* to have been so one sided without being able to see Dany and what was happening up there. 

Not to mention all the time we spent with Arya on the ground absolutely infuriated me. It was impossible to really get a sense of what was going on from that point of view and it was obviously so the fan base would not be able to say "maybe it wasn't that bad on the ground or maybe wildfire did it." D&D made their narrative choices and those choices now were to rub fans of Dany's face in it.  They are telling us no matter what you saw, they are making her the mad queen who must be put down. 

Personally I think Tyrion is straight up the reason for this. Had Dany attacked at the start of season 7 and might have simply taken out the red keep.  Everyone around Dany HAS betrayed her or died. She is right, Jon, Sansa, and Tyrion betrayed her.  For those saying it was Dany, I will remind you of the two year lengths that she went to not to do this... even asking for surrender last week only to have her best friend's head cut off. 

[steelyis]

10 minutes ago, Lady S. said:

I don't think it was so much that he was still enamored of her as his self-loathing kept him bound to her and unable to start over with the morally pure Brienne, who he also loved. And Cersei was still carrying their last child. Letting his pregnant sister-lover die alone miles away while he forgot all about her to start a new life with a woman he didn't deserve was just too hard for him.

This.

Jaime does hate himself too much to be with Brienne: and it's almost impossible to truly love someone if you don't love yourself.

[terrymct]

7 hours ago, AmeliaBedelia said:

I hate the repetitive dialogue (Jon called Dany his queen...take a shot).

 I reminded me of when Dany spent most of a season yelling “My dragons!”.  

[UNOSEZ]

6 hours ago, rmontro said:

Completely agree, FFS Viserys had just threatened to kill her (and Drogo's) unborn child.  Do people really expect her to cry tears over him?

Something other than "he's not a dragon" the implication being.. I Am... Viserys was garbage.. But so was Tywin and at least Tyrion showed some kind of emotion... You wanna say she hated viserys all her life.. Ok... Even then as he's melting in front of her.. Nothing but a creepy stare and an implied declaration ( in my mind)  of her special-ness

[ElectricBoogaloo]

4 minutes ago, steelyis said:

Jaime does hate himself too much to be with Brienne: and it's almost impossible to truly love someone if you don't love yourself.

As RuPaul says, if you can't love yourself, how in the hell you gonna love somebody else?

[Growsonwalls]

So ... there isn't even an Iron Throne anymore right? Igt's probably burned to ashes.

[Butless]

7 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I don’t think Dany was mad either.  I agree with the poster who said it’s insulting to call her mad.

Dany was hurt, angry, fucking pissed off.  She saw her child, her dragon killed, her most trusted confidant, friend, brutally murdered in front of her. 

Who would be all love and light after all that shit.

Remember the last word of episode 4, Dracarus indeed.

Yeah; mad at CERSEI. Because she was the one who was to blame.  Not mad enough to kill 10,000s of innocent people. You dont just lose all of your humanity, in those situations. That's not sane, in the least. The city had surrendered.

And if she were really mad, she would have sought Euron out, specifically.

At first, I thought she was  lighting shit on fire in the city as a path up to Cersei. I could have even gotten behind that, if the city  had been emptied. But they had her  going down fucking side-streets to kill everyone. She was flying in low!

After the death of her baby, there was downtime at the base camp. It's not like she decided to kill everyone in the heat of passion. The way they wrote this, they made her look like a scorned bitch, taking revenge on KL because Jon doesn't want to play hide the salami with her.  What an insult to the character, the audience, and, fuck, women in general.

Sorry not sorry: Benioff & Weiss trashed the characters and trashed the show. No excuse.

[Affogato]

7 hours ago, Pestilentia said:

So that incinerated corpse that Arya saw at the end there was the mom and child she tried to lead to safety? And that hand poking up that looked like the pommel of a charred Longclaw was just a hand and not a charred Longclaw? 

RIGHT? 

Am I the only one seeing these things?

It was a toy. It reminded me of Shireen’s toy. 

[Mardo2044]

8 hours ago, Leroux said:

There you have it Jon, the woman that you vouched for.  Your Queen!!

I blame Jon as much as Daenerys for this massacre, he gave her his blessing, he became his yes man, they all are guilty, including Tyrion. They knew she was a woman on a quest for revenge with a savior complex and with dragons. None of them did nothing to stop her. 

They all have blood on their hands  

I think that was the point, to show the change in Jon the reluctant King.  He would rule differently and now he sees it, but so many have died because he understood too late.  

[Coxfires]

Ok so upon rewatch, I can appreciate what the show went for: out worst ennemy is not Death, it's greed, envy, hubris and power. I much prefer this approach than the mystical White walkers. I can even appreciate the "We love who we love" with Jamie and Cersei. But damn if some characters weren't completely morphed personality wise To get there!

I might be also in the minority of people who appreciate that Jon didn't kill the NK and Arya didn't fulfill her list, because life happens. But I can't say the execution was perfect. Even with longer episodes, the show still would have needed more time to really delve into the characters To make it better

So no, I did not hate the episode, but I regret the rush

[paigow]

7 minutes ago, Mardo2044 said:

I think that was the point, to show the change in Jon the reluctant King.  He would rule differently and now he sees it, but so many have died because he understood too late.  

Jon and Arya will leave Westeros together for Braavos...get jobs as Iron Bank guards.... 

[Beachdreamer]

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.  I am in the minority, it looks like, but I don't think the transformation was too quick to be believable.  I think the threat of losing everything she ever worked toward was in her very near future, and she knew it.  The secret was no longer a secret, and not only was John the rightful heir and ruler, he was preferred, even by her own advisor.  But, she'd gotten a taste of power and wasn't going to let it go.  I think she was probably equal parts rage and frustration and calculation. 

[StarBrand]

1 hour ago, 30 Helens said:

I don’t think it’s fair to condemn a story before the story’s over. Who knows what could happen next week? And even after it’s over, I won’t fault it if it’s not what I wanted or envisioned. Storytellers have a right to tell their story, in their own way. An audience member can like it or not, but not liking it doesn’t automatically mean it was a bad story. 

Totally this.

[Butless]

8 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Thank you for this comment.  I was afraid I was mad for actually liking this episode.  

I dont think you're mad for liking it. I just think a lot of people were let down by the writing, and how shoddily this has been treated, especially in the last two seasons.

But it was a spectacle! I could watch dragons destroying cities all day.

[paigow]

Dany merely raised the bluff of of killing human shields in the Red Keep...to killing everybody.

Cersei hated her subjects, Dany grilled them.....

[HunterHunted]

59 minutes ago, Butless said:

I hope that GRRM fed them this plot and ending. I hope he decided to mislead them, so his book would have a different ending, and show Benioff and Weiss for the hacks that they are. When the source material ran out for these assholes, then we got to see how brilliant they are. Who bought their careers for them? Because they are mediocre, at best. Talk about failing upwards, these two dolts.

There are almost certainly massive penalties if GRRM deviates substantially from the information he has provided to D&D and HBO. The penalty for revealing the winner of a competitive reality or game show can be anywhere from $1 million to $10 million depending on the viewership of the show. There's no way that there isn't a liquidated damages provision in GRRM's contract north of $10 million.

[Stardancer Supreme]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Jon: I'm really not comfortable having sex with you now that I know you're my aunt. It's kind of grossing me out.
Dany: HDU!

I would have been fine with Dany destroying the actual castle where Cersei was just standing at the window, perfectly content to watch her own subjects die. There was a shot where Cersei saw Dany in the distance and I was really hoping that Dany would fly the dragon straight at the tower and yell, "I'm coming for you, bitch!"

But now that Dany has razed the city and its tax-paying inhabitants, where is Dany going to get the money and labor force to rebuild the city? Or is she going to abandon it and rule from Dragonstone? What does she expect the survivors to do? Just live in the rubble and thank her for destroying their homes and killing their families?

For the record, I didn't see what Dany did as evidence that she's mad as in crazy. She's mad as in angry. She wanted revenge. She didn't destroy the city because she lost her ability to recognize right from wrong. She didn't suddenly lose her impulse control. She knew exactly what she was doing. She wanted payback and she had a temper tantrum which just so happened to kill a bunch of innocent people who had nothing to do with what happened to her or her family. It's one thing to expect trained soldiers to fight in your name and possibly die, but she purposely took her frustration out on defenseless women and children who had run.

I'm paranoid because I've watched too many shows to believe that he or Cersei are really dead until I see their corpses (and even then, I'll still want someone to chop the bodies into pieces, burn the parts, and bury the ashes in farflung corners of the world - you know, just in case). As much as I hope they're both dead, I can imagine one of them crawling out from the ashes like an annoying cockroach.

I really wish Jaime had taken the extra ten seconds to decapitate Euron just so I'd know he's really most sincerely dead.

So I wasn't the only one screaming for Jaime to cut Euron's head off? It's bad storytelling to leave live enemies behind you knowing damn well they want you dead.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 minute ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

So I wasn't the only one screaming for Jaime to cut Euron's head off? It's bad storytelling to leave live enemies behind you knowing damn well they want you dead.

TV and movies have taught me that if you don't make damn sure your enemy is deader than a door nail when you have the chance, said enemy will inevitably pop up again later, usually to try to kill you again. Don't be that guy, Jaime!

[Beachdreamer]

12 minutes ago, Beachdreamer said:

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.  I am in the minority, it looks like, but I don't think the transformation was too quick to be believable.  I think the threat of losing everything she ever worked toward was in her very near future, and she knew it.  The secret was no longer a secret, and not only was John the rightful heir and ruler, he was preferred, even by her own advisor.  But, she'd gotten a taste of power and wasn't going to let it go.  I think she was probably equal parts rage and frustration and calculation. 

Additionally, I don't think John will end up ruling for this reason.  I think the writer's message is that there is no happy ending when there is an absolute ruler, not for the ruler or the people, and for this reason, I don't think they will set John up to follow this path.

I'm not really sure an hour is enough to create a democracy, though, so it's going to be tough to wrap it up. 

[Butless]

8 hours ago, Andromeda said:

Dany... My Dany would never do that to innocent people. Who is that woman on the dragon? Why is she burning her own city into ashes? Oh, because people (without cause) worried she would. Oh. Too bad, women apparently can't handle power. (SMH)

All that talk Varys did about how no one will accept a woman on the throne, etc  I thought that was a set up. It was. It was a set up to show Dany in the worst possible light, have her go insane with power and rage, and murder thousands.  I think D&D are going to put Sansa on the throne, or  set her to rule, and they will think that absolves them of the awful way they done the Dany character.

[steelyis]

5 minutes ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

So I wasn't the only one screaming for Jaime to cut Euron's head off? It's bad storytelling to leave live enemies behind you knowing damn well they want you dead.

Me!

I literally said, "Don't leave! Collect his fucking head!"

[Emkat]

Who gave the order to ring the bells? I saw no sign of surrender in Cersei. 

[Neurochick]

These are my thoughts today and hopefully I'll shut up about this episode.

I do understand why people hate this episode, we've been presented with a version of Dany and this version is very different, also many of us see the world as black and white, nothing wrong with that.

Because I'm a black woman, I always watched Missandei, where she stood, if she said anything.  She rarely said anything but she was always THERE with Dany and Grey Worm.  I think because she didn't say or do anything physical, many thought her character insignificant, but I never did.  To me she was a force, a force that Dany, probably didn't realize she was drawing from. 

When Dany's second child was killed, and then Missandei brutally beheaded in front of her (reminded me of Ned Stark), Dany no longer had that calming force, she no longer had her child.  Dany didn't go bad, she was hurt, scared, angry, she'd lost nearly everybody she cared about to top that off, she found out that she was not the only Targaryan in the house and it's Jon Snow to top it off, a man that everybody seems to like.  Sure he doesn't want the Iron Throne, but that doesn't mean others won't conspire to get rid of Dany to put him on the throne.  

As I said in an earlier post, I have worked with people who've done a complete 180 after suffering a trauma, and this trauma wasn't physical death, but the loss of 20 years of work; and that changed this person and not in a good way.  They didn't burn people alive, but burned several people professionally; sometimes when I think about it now, it gives me chills.

Cersei, I felt was a bully.  She killed Missandei because she could.  She didn't listed to Tyrion.  She was like, "fuck all of you, I've got the upper hand as always."  Until she didn't and she acted like all bullies when they realize there's a new sherif in town, she became a blubbering mess, "I don't want my baby to die" she cried.  Well, didn't Tyrion try to say that to her in the last episode?  Yes, he did.  Not surprised she died with her sorry ass brother, they deserved each other anyway.

As for the Unsullied.  Sure they are a disciplined army, but think of the horror they saw at the battle of Winterfell.  I also thought about Grey Worm, he saw the love of his life, the only woman who he cared about, who saw him as a man, murdered.  When Dany gave him Missandei's belt, he threw it in the fire; probably thinking, what's the point, she's dead.

Years ago I either read an article, or heard someone talk regarding Apartheid in South Africa.  This person said that when you take everything away from someone, causing them to have nothing to lose, that person becomes very dangerous, which is why I felt Dany became.

The end scene seemed strange to me at first, Arya riding off on a white horse, but this morning I kind of got it.  For so many seasons, Arya has been all about revenge, I mean she killed all the male Freys for what they did to her family, but we know she had her list and she wanted to kill Cersei herself.  But the Hound took her aside and said, "this is what revenge looks like."  The fight between the Hound and the Mountain was about revenge, the torching of King's Landing was about revenge.  Arya got it, she was like, "nope, peace out."  To me, it was symbolic of Arya now not being the girl who wanted to kill everybody.

People aren't one way or another, people are complex.   And sometimes I think this show says, "hey, anybody can become a Cersei" given the right motivation.  

[cambridgeguy]

Just now, Emkat said:

Who gave the order to ring the bells? I saw no sign of surrender in Cersei. 

A lot of people were yelling about it so I guess word eventually made it there.  I think at that point they weren't going to wait for a royal order.

So if Jon is really a man of honor is he going to toss his soldiers in prison?  Because a whole lot of them looked happy to join the Unsullied in the pillaging.

And they truly made Tyrion the hero.  Unlike Jon, who mostly stood around looking worried, he actually tried to minimize the loss of life and freed his beloved brother rather than watch him be executed.  He might be an idiot but he's clearly being propped up as a good man who would be a good ruler as long as he's not dealing with manipulative bastards (Sansa), murderous lunatics (Dany), or both (Cersei).

[Chaos Theory]

Is it weird that I truly buy that for Cersei and Jamie that for the two of them...they were each other’s OTP. As sick and twisted as it was they were it for each other.    

I can see them either really being dead together in each others arms.  Or I can see the final shot of the show being them under assumed names in a boat with their child.  Jaime all excited about building Cersei a cabin in the middle of nowhere but then as the ship takes off she whispers in the child’s ear that they will be back.    When she looks up she is genuinely surprised to see Tyrion watching on in the distance.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[DrSpaceman]

I knew there would be no roses and balloons being released happy ending.  About as close to that we are going to get was Arya killing the night king.

But this........this just seems to have undone everything we saw for the entire series.  Everything that was building up to khaleesi becoming a great ruler, all undone in a 1/2 show epic meltdown. 

And Cersei dying by avalanche like that?  No. 

At least we got to see the Mountain and the Hound battle finally. 

[steelyis]

8 minutes ago, Emkat said:

Who gave the order to ring the bells? I saw no sign of surrender in Cersei. 

Okay, here's a thought: Maybe Dany thought the bells were another trick?

Tyrion has been wrong and outplayed so often, I can see Dany thinking she was being fooled again.

[mxc90]

Did anyone think Greyworm was going to attempt to assassinate Jon on orders from Dany (by the way he turned and looked at him)?

Poor Bronn. All what was promised is gone.

[GodsBeloved]

8 hours ago, Lemuria said:

Because (1) he was actively working to dethrone her and put someone else in her place; (2) the conversation with the "little bird" suggested he was also trying to poison her; and (3) he had promised her that if he ever had a problem with her, he would look her in the eye and tell her.  He didn't.

She promised that if he ever betrayed her, she would burn him to ashes.

She did.

In the last episode, Varys did look her in the eye and told her he had a problem with her I thought. But yeah I immediately remembered that conversation and I also missed the implication that Varys was trying to poison her.

I don't fault Daenerys though for keeping her word.

8 hours ago, Drogo said:

Not anymore... that's why she's in such a bad mood. All backed up. 

Maybe Daario will show up again 😄

[ElectricBoogaloo]

For many years, revenge was the fire inside Arya that kept her going. That need to avenge what had been done to her family was her only motivation for going on. She needed that. She saw nothing else but her list and how to get to everyone on it. The Hound understood that because he was the same way, and I think part of him liked her because he saw himself in her, that thirst to hurt the people who hurt you, to wipe them off the face of the earth.

But when it was clear that the entire city was going up in flames, he saw that Arya didn't need to be the one to kill Cersei because she was clearly going to go down with that sinking ship. Even if it wasn't by Arya's own hand, Cersei would be dead, so there was no reason for her to run into a building that was going to come down. The Hound is older and he'd already lived a miserable life so he was ready to die in order to get his revenge, but he saw Arya for what she is: a girl. Not A Girl, but a girl. She is still so young with her whole life ahead of her, a family who loves her, and the money/titles/family privilege that will allow her to do whatever she wants (as opposed to living a hardscrabble life trying to earn enough money at a shit job to feed herself). Dying now would be a waste of all that, especially since it seemed inevitable that Cersei would die without any help from Arya.

I do wonder if Arya will have Inigo Montoya syndrome and not know what to do with herself now that she's out of the revenge business.

[CherryRipe]

9 hours ago, Popples said:

I always thought it would end up being menopause.

Well, it was a hell of a hot flash

[CletusMusashi]

Fuck this season.Yet again, they tell a story without understanding how to build it. You want to have Dany burn KL? Fine. Have her go in with massive firepower, defeat the Redshirt Company, and then have the fires that have already been started go out of control. Dragons are good at making fire. Not so good at stopping it. She could sit and watch from above, looking stunned in close-up but aloof to people on the ground who can't really see her and just assume that she's gloating or whatever, and then Jon can have his "Bruce Wayne at the beginning of Batfleck v Superman" moment. You still get your conflict, but you also still get your characters.

So what did we actually learn this week? Dany has suddenly gone moustache-twirlingly out-of-character evil supervillain crazy. Because she's a Targaryan. And Targaryans do that. So instead of to her... the throne should go to Jon. Because... he's a Targaryan. 

[Ladyrain]

7 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

 Or I can see the final shot of the show being them under assumed names in a boat

We haven't seen their crushed, dead bodies so.....it's possible they (magically) survived.  I'm still holding out hope that Arya gets to fulfill her wish to be the one to take Cersei out.  And that Jamie has to witness it, after what he did to Brienne.

[ACW]

9 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I didn’t see Dany as going mad.  If you saw basically two of your children murdered in front of you, would you be all, “okay, it’s all good?”

But I ask again, how would you have changed the episode?

After the bells, I would have had Dany fly straight to the Red Keep and burn it to get to Cersei.  Which still would have killed lots of innocent civilians inside, and still would get the Starks and Tyrion mad at her, but would at least have made sense.

[TV Anonymous]

Moderators, can you please change the title to this thread to reflect the actual title of the episode, 'The Bells'?

[ACW]

Just now, ACW said:

After the bells, I would have had Dany fly straight to the Red Keep and burn it to get to Cersei.  Which still would have killed lots of innocent civilians inside, and still would get the Starks and Tyrion mad at her, but would at least have made sense.

Also: WTF weren't there some scorpions mounted on the Red Keep?