S08.E02: A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms

[BadAssRobinArryn]

3 hours ago, Bali said:

I do think that a tendency to trust these people is a blind side for Tyrion. But I also think there was another spy in Dany's war council.

Varys?

[Growsonwalls]

2 hours ago, Absurda said:

IMHO a ruler needs to have a balance of traits.  Honor like Ned Stark with a touch of Cersei's ruthlessness.  A ruler needs to be able to keep everyone they lead in line sometimes through force sometimes through compromise.  A ruler may need to do things that don't really fit with their personal beliefs because it is the best thing for their people.  A ruler has to make hard compromises and distasteful decisions.  A ruler needs to be political in addition to an inspiring leader, flexible and adaptive.

I think Jaime, Tyrion, Dany, Jon, and Sansa all could be decent. They all have moments where they're stupid/cruel/misguided but they all have more humanity than Cersei or Ramsay Bolton. 

That committee at the beginning of Episode 2 with Jon, Dany, and Sansa convening together and then also showing Jaime mercy BY LISTENING TO THEIR SUBJECTS (Brienne Tarth) actually made me feel good about any of them taking the Iron Throne. As I said, that kind of cabinet meeting is something Cersei or Tywin never would have fathomed.

So despite the bloodbath which I know will lead to a lot of heartbreak ultimately I think Westeros will end up with a leader who may not be perfect but has humanity.

[terrymct]

12 minutes ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

Varys?

I'm hoping Varys is too obvious choice to be the spy.  He's also gone through an arc where he's shown his loyalty is with Westeros rather than any one ruler.   

[MadameKillerB]

Not sure if he's the "spy," but I do get the feeling that if he feels Tyrion can't keep Dany in line that he's going to act against her...which could spell his doom.

[Traveller519]

36 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

That committee at the beginning of Episode 2 with Jon, Dany, and Sansa convening together and then also showing Jaime mercy BY LISTENING TO THEIR SUBJECTS (Brienne Tarth) actually made me feel good about any of them taking the Iron Throne. As I said, that kind of cabinet meeting is something Cersei or Tywin never would have fathomed.

On my re-watch last night, this was one of my biggest take-aways. That scene was almost forgotten because of just how much came after it. But it represented the best of what the council should be. Jamie wasn't there to kiss anyone's ass, those at the head table listened to their counselors, and everyone made valid points. Even Robert simply looked to his council to back up the decision he had already made.

The acting in the scene is terrific too. All the shade-throwing of episode 1 is done with in favour of actual discussion. And of course we get some more Bran awkwardness, which has become one of my favourite bits of the 8th season. Given that it then did lead to the good scene between him and Jamie in the Godswood, and him being involved in the war council, I'm glad they did move the character forward though.

Speaking of the War Council, how freaking intimidating did those troop layouts look. It's basically the wall marching on Winterfell.

[BravoAddict72]

I need Brienne and Jamie to both live. I personally want Brienne to kill Cersei for Jamie's honor. I know Jamie has done horrible things but he is trying to turn thinks around. Cersei just lies, about everything. She lied about sending troops.  She is lying about the baby IMO. She sent someone to kill her brothers. I hope Hound takes out the Mountain as a way for Brienne to take out Cersei.

[UNOSEZ]

Someone upthread said it and I'll echo it.. Maybe the person who could've been the best balance between cunning and caring with an army to do damage woulda been Margery... Was she laying it on thick with the soldier orphans.. Sure.. But there was genuine warmth and some concern there.. And she would have her grandmother to shepherd her a bit when it came time to be really nasty if need be... Plus she was someone I feel many in the 7 kingdoms.. Regardless of station could get behind... So of course cersei hated her from jump street( that in itself shows she would been good) 

[proserpina65]

On ‎04‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 11:21 AM, Timetoread said:

The they I was referring to wasn't the people in the show, it was the people here who watch it.  Let Jon get his own army.  He is not OWED the Throne anymore than she is.  He is just an heir of the Targ house.  He can go look stupid at Dragonstone.  The armies she has pledge allegiance to her, not him.

Dany is basing her claim on being the rightful heir according to Westeros tradition.  She's discounting Baratheons as usurpers since Robert Baratheon overthrew her father.  By that reasoning, Jon's claim is stronger than hers because he is the legitimate male heir.  Asserting that she deserves the throne simply because she has the strongest army is an entirely different thing, and would probably make her a usurper herself.

I'm not saying any of this is right, just that it's the reasoning behind her claim versus Jon's claim.  Which is less important to him because he doesn't want to be king of anything.  I can only see him asserting a claim if he felt that was what the people of Westeros wanted, and was what he had to do for the good of his people.  Like him accepting being King in the North.

[proserpina65]

22 hours ago, larapu2000 said:

Further, it's always been my impression through the books and the show, that it doesn't matter who has a claim to the throne through parentage, it's about the worthiness of the person ascending, and getting that person to the throne, or about overthrowing the old traditions and ideals of a world where so many suffer needlessly and instituting a form of government or leadership that is by, for, and of the people.

I've seen and read nothing that indicates worthiness having anything to do with who gets the Iron Throne.  It's pretty much been might and trickery since Robert Baratheon overthrew the Targaryen dynasty.  Before that it was birthright.  Now, if there's any throne left to sit, and anyone left to claim it, worth might actually come into it.

[Bali]

1 hour ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

Varys?

That is my guess. Just a guess- based on nothing except the fact that I've never trusted that man.

[proserpina65]

19 hours ago, catrice2 said:

I know it is a minority opinion but if given the choice of Brianne ending up with a strange man that loves her the way she is and is not afraid to show it or be his strange self, and a more attractive, possibly more exciting man that has been sleeping with and professes to love his murderous, lying sister (thus proving he has issues) then I vote for the former. 

Me too, and I used to ship Brienne and Jaime so hard, but Tormund won me over.

17 hours ago, ferjy said:

I love Tormund, but yeah, that was an odd wooing tactic. 😬

It probably works on wildling women.

[newms]

Shall we predict who will die next week? I’m looking at who still has a story to tell after the battle. 

Jon: Will survive. His story is tied to the throne.

Dany: Same thing.

Sansa: She still has a game to play with Jon and Dany. 

Arya: She still has a list to finish. 

Bran: His time is up. His story is all about the white walkers and he’s already let the secret out about Jon’s parents. 

Ghost: Do not even think about it writers. He must live or I will scream. Honestly though, it could go either way. 

Nymeria: Her story with her wolf clan still needs to be told. I hope the writers don’t forget about it. 

Jorah: His only purpose is to send lovingly looks to Dany. He’s disposable. 

Tyrion: Still has a story to Cersei. 

Jaime: Same thing. 

Brienne: She doesn’t need to survive except for fan’s pleasing. Her story isn’t necessary and she’s now received her life dream by being knighted. 

Varys: His story is tied to the throne. 

Sam: His story is done as well as his wife. They are tied to the Wall and the North. His family is gone now in the south. 

Castle Black boys and Wildlings: Same as Sam. They are tied to the wall and the North. 

Grey Worm, the Unsullied, and the Dorthraki: Could go either way. They are Dany’s army but she is their only tie to Westeros. 

Dany’s dragons: Useful for fighting Cersei so they’ll live. 

The Hound: He has to face his brother still. He lives. 

Messendai: Her purpose was back in Essos to help Dany with communication and historical knowledge. She has no purpose in Westeros. She dies. 

Feel free to add in any I’ve missed and your thoughts!

[proserpina65]

2 hours ago, Absurda said:

I think the big challenge really is that dead humans can become wights so the NK can replenish his army as he goes and replace losses while the human army just diminishes.  Plus the psychological effect of fighting zombie versions of your comrades. 

And sheer numbers.  To quote something I can't remember: where hundreds fail, thousands (and tens of thousands) succeed.

[izabella]

4 minutes ago, newms said:

Shall we predict who will die next week? I’m looking at who still has a story to tell after the battle. 

I look at it more as some (many of our main characters) have to live in order to repopulate Westeros.  So many Houses have been wiped out - Tyrells, Martells, Tarlys, Freys, Tullys...  Someone has to live!

[sumiregusa]

On 4/22/2019 at 2:54 PM, larapu2000 said:

What makes you think GOT exists in the world we live in, or in a time and era that isn't right now?  It's a fantasy show, so you don't get to view it through the lens of "oh, they don't have smartphones and modern weapons technology, so women deserve to be treated as less than their male counterparts."  We absolutely get to view it through a modern lens.  It was written with a modern lens.  It was filmed with a modern lens.  

And there are plenty of examples of cultures and societies in THIS world that valued women and where they were allowed an equal place at the table, from hundreds and thousands of years ago, so your entire premise is still pretty flawed even IF you considered it to be happening in our world.

I think you're misunderstanding something. Nowhere did I say that viewing the mindset of the times as sexist isn't allowed. I didn't make any restrictions on what anyone can and can't feel about women deserving to be treated better than they were. I happen to be a woman and I strongly support a woman's right to equality in all things.

What I actually stated was that this sexist mentality is the way things were. It's not "my premise" so I don't really know where you're getting that. It's just how it was. You don't have to like it or agree with it, in fact no one does. That doesn't change it being the truth and reality for all women AT THAT TIME.

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

That committee at the beginning of Episode 2 with Jon, Dany, and Sansa convening together and then also showing Jaime mercy BY LISTENING TO THEIR SUBJECTS (Brienne Tarth) actually made me feel good about any of them taking the Iron Throne. As I said, that kind of cabinet meeting is something Cersei or Tywin never would have fathomed.

I agree. That was actually a great moment for all three of them. You've got Jon thinking strategically saying "We'll deal with this b.s. later, we need all the fighters we can get," Dany trying to show the North she's not a tyrant by conceding to Sansa and Jon, and Sansa putting aside her desire for revenge to do what's best for her people. Gold stars all the way around!

[VCRTracking]

Edited April 23, 2019 by VCRTracking

[Calamity Jane]

Just got a chance to watch (sort of - overseas and connection wasn’t good), and after that song, oh my god, so many people are gonna dieeeeeee!  I don’t know how I’ll make it through, I really don’t. 

Edited April 23, 2019 by Calamity Jane

[Bryce Lynch]

21 hours ago, BooBear said:

I wanted to go back to this. I am not sure what they are doing with Tormund but he is verging on insulting. I can see that he might be nervous and not know how to act but it has been going on too long. We know Tormund is adorable but she doesn't and he isn't doing a very good job. I am guessing this isn't going to get resolved properly but I think Jamie / Brienne is massively complex and I would kind of like to delve a bit into that and stop it with the wacky Tormund crush. Of course it was adorable for Jamie to realize someone else is interested. But Tormund's buffoonery kind of ruined it. 

I think Tormund is wooing her in a way that might work great with Wildling women, but is bizarre to a Southern woman.   I think it is great that Tormund appreciates her for who she is, and thinks she is an ideal woman, despite the fact that she doesn't fit the standard of beauty in Westeros.    It is also great that Jaime admires her (and perhaps is attracted to her) so much.  Her strength and character have made two great warriors admire her deeply.  

[LadyChaos]

44 minutes ago, newms said:

Sam: His story is done as well as his wife. They are tied to the Wall and the North. His family is gone now in the south. 

I disagree about Sam.  I think, since his journey started after his father made him abandon his right to family lands and title; I believe his full circle is to be given his family lands and titles back and  taking up his birthright as head of his family.

You also missed Gendry, and I believe he too, will survive and that his full circle is to be legitimized and to take the Baratheon house of power, the Stormlands. 

I also think that Arya will go with him. I don't think she is built for staying at Winterfell. She never wanted to marry a lord and have his children, but that was mostly because she wanted the freedom of being herself and being a warrior.  Gendry loves her as she is, and wouldn't stop her coming and going and wouldn't force her to be a lady.  Plus, she loves him.

[BadAssRobinArryn]

1 hour ago, Bali said:

That is my guess. Just a guess- based on nothing except the fact that I've never trusted that man.

I really don't know who else it could be if it isn't Tyrion. Olenna and the Sand Snakes fell victim to the possible betrayal. So did Yara, even though she survived (and neither of those characters had anything to gain by siding with Cersei, quite in contrast). Jorah by now is loyal to Dany and wasn't even at Dany's side during eraly Season 7. And Missandei is out of question.

6 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

I disagree about Sam.  I think, since his journey started after his father made him abandon his right to family lands and title; I believe his full circle is to be given his family lands and titles back and  taking up his birthright as head of his family. 

And as an Addition, he's currently probably the new Lord of the Reach.

Edited April 23, 2019 by BadAssRobinArryn

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, UNOSEZ said:

Someone upthread said it and I'll echo it.. Maybe the person who could've been the best balance between cunning and caring with an army to do damage woulda been Margery... Was she laying it on thick with the soldier orphans.. Sure.. But there was genuine warmth and some concern there.. And she would have her grandmother to shepherd her a bit when it came time to be really nasty if need be... Plus she was someone I feel many in the 7 kingdoms.. Regardless of station could get behind... So of course cersei hated her from jump street( that in itself shows she would been good) 

Oh, Margery easily had the best combination of practical cunning and absence of cruelty, of all the potential monarchs in this world. If the arrogantly pious High Sparrow had pulled his head of his rectum and listened to her in time, she might have escaped Cersei's trap.

Edited April 23, 2019 by Bannon

[Bryce Lynch]

4 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

I disagree about Sam.  I think, since his journey started after his father made him abandon his right to family lands and title; I believe his full circle is to be given his family lands and titles back and  taking up his birthright as head of his family.

You also missed Gendry, and I believe he too, will survive and that his full circle is to be legitimized and to take the Baratheon house of power, the Stormlands. 

I also think that Arya will go with him. I don't think she is built for staying at Winterfell. She never wanted to marry a lord and have his children, but that was mostly because she wanted the freedom of being herself and being a warrior.  Gendry loves her as she is, and wouldn't stop her coming and going and wouldn't force her to be a lady.  Plus, she loves him.

Do we really know that Gendry and and Arya are in love?  I think they might make a nice couple.  But, all we've seen, so far, is last day on earth, I don't want to die a virgin sex.   

[BadAssRobinArryn]

Regarding possible victims in Winterfell I wouldn't rule out Bronn. He's on his way North and we don't know how much time exactly has passed since he left King's Landing. Theon is already there after all, and he didn't leave much earlier. And yes, travelling by boat is faster, but still.

Edited April 23, 2019 by BadAssRobinArryn

[Absurda]

Quote

Jorah: His only purpose is to send lovingly looks to Dany. He’s disposable. 

The NK and AOTD better keep their mitts off my Jorah!

[Growsonwalls]

2 hours ago, Traveller519 said:

On my re-watch last night, this was one of my biggest take-aways. That scene was almost forgotten because of just how much came after it. But it represented the best of what the council should be. Jamie wasn't there to kiss anyone's ass, those at the head table listened to their counselors, and everyone made valid points. Even Robert simply looked to his council to back up the decision he had already made.

I'd even say that I couldn't imagine Ned or Catelyn Stark sitting in on this kind of makeshift parliament and openly debating a huge decision. Ned would have deferred to whatever King Robert wanted, and Catelyn NEVER would have abided listening to JON SNOW. So the younger Starks do have some of their parents' weaknesses but they are also more openminded, less rigid, more forgiving. All positive things.

[Andromeda]

22 hours ago, Azi said:

"Power resides where men believe it resides." essentially.

(Also your icon hurts me Q_Q)

Exactly. Look at Renly. He was convinced he'd make a better king than the stuffy, boring Stannis, his older brother, despite Stannis clearly being before him in the line of succession. And a lot of people agreed, including Brienne and Margery, based on Renly's charisma.

[Bryce Lynch]

2 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

Exactly. Look at Renly. He was convinced he'd make a better king than the stuffy, boring Stannis, his older brother, despite Stannis clearly being before him in the line of succession. And a lot of people agreed, including Brienne and Margery, based on Renly's charisma.

Did Margery really think Renly would make a good king, or did she see him as her path to being a the Queen?

Brienne seemed devoted to Renly because the the kindness he showed her in her youth.

That said, Renly did seem to have a bigger, popular following than Stannis because he had a better personality and more friends and political connections in the capital  

[Lady S.]

2 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

I can only see him asserting a claim if he felt that was what the people of Westeros wanted, and was what he had to do for the good of his people.  Like him accepting being King in the North.

I think that was different because though he never sought the title any more than Robb did or than he did at the NW election, the titles and all they stood for still meant a lot to him, and some part of him did want that recognition after spending his entire childhood jealous of Robb. Ruling all Westeros, not just the North, holds no such meaning for him and I think he'd feel as unsuited to the iron throne as Ned did.

[Andromeda]

1 minute ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Did Margery really think Renly would make a good king, or did she see him as her path to being a the Queen?

Brienne seemed devoted to Renly because the the kindness he showed her in her youth.

That said, Renly did seem to have a bigger, popular following than Stannis because he had a better personality and more friends and political connections in the capital  

I think Margery saw him as her path to becoming queen. Stannis was already married.

[Lady S.]

23 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

It looks longer but Ice was wider. IIRC of course

Either way, Ice must be bigger, because it was too unwieldy to actually use in combat. We only saw it used for beheading, while in his fight with Jaime and the flashback fight with Arthur Dayne and his bro Ned used a regular sword. 

[penelope79]

On 4/22/2019 at 4:29 AM, SourK said:

I... doubt most of the main characters will actually die next week.

Yeah, I agree with both you and Tyrion. Most of the characters' fate is still tied to the fate of the Iron Throne or still have to complete their arc. Jon and Dany are both safe IMO (they still have a lot to sort out and I doubt they'll have the chance to do it in battle). The same goes for the Hound (he has yet to face his brother) and I'd dare to say both Jaime and Tyrion (because of Cersei). Characters who I don't think will die next episode but, at the same time, I can't say they're 100% safe: Sansa, Brienne (I wish she and Jaime end up together but, rationally, her story could be over), Arya (same: I wish she and Gendry get some sort of happy ending, but at the same time I don't see her character really having anything else to tell), Gendry (see Arya, although he's the only living Baratheon, which could play in his favour) Bran, Davos, Varys, Sam. Characters I (unfortunately) feel will die next episode:  Theon, Jorah, Grey Worm/Missandei, Tormund, Dolorius Ed, Beric, Podrick. However, it really all depends on th Night King: if he's going to show up in Winterfell, then most characters will still be alive by the end of the battle because if they win they would still have to fight Cersei for the Iron Throne. But if the Night King is heading South to King's Landing playing the dear old misdirection trick (which is something I would do if I were him)... then everything could really happen, since there will no longer be any Iron Throne.

On 4/22/2019 at 4:43 AM, AnnaL said:

I think Jon told her because he had to. 

Basically yes. Let's not forget he spent the whole episode avoiding her, it's been Dany who found him in tha crypts. And Dany asked him about Lyanna and mentioned Rhaegar. How could he NOT tell her, considering she inadvertently brought th subject up?

On 4/22/2019 at 7:31 AM, ImpinAintEasy said:

Beautiful episode. It really did seem like one big final goodbye to half of the characters. 

Gendry is totally going to be wightified and Arya is going to have to kill him. 

Gendry,Jorah,Theon,Podrick,GreyWorm,Tormund,Edd, and Beric are my predictions for the Deadpool. Bran is a possibility, but I think he survives. Jaime isn’t going to die before crossing paths with Cersei again. Brienne is a possibility, but I think there is still more to her story with Jaime. 

The big question is whether the NK and the AOTD will be defeated next episode, and my hope is they will be. I want the series to wrap with the Game Of Thrones, not the Long Night. 

I agree. I always thought the issue with the WW had to be solved way before the actual end in King's Landing.

On 4/22/2019 at 10:44 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The fact that so many people were uncomfortable seeing a 22 year old actress have a sex scene makes me all the more glad that they did it. Arya's not a little girl. She is an adult woman who chose to have sex. It's not icky or gross or inappropriate. Women are allowed to have sex and enjoy it. Funny how people were okay with Arya going to assassin school as a child and MURDERING PEOPLE but choosing to have sex the night before she might die is what's not cool.

Speaking for myself, I always liked the idea of Arya/Gendry, hence I'm glad they had that moment. I personally felt uncomfortable seeing naked someone who, for some reason, I still see as a little girl, not the fact she chose to have sex. I would've felt the same if I had to watch Bran getting naked: I've been watching these 2 kids since they were children and I see them as some sort of nephews. 😄

Edited April 23, 2019 by penelope79

[Macbeth]

4 hours ago, Traveller519 said:

And of course we get some more Bran awkwardness, which has become one of my favourite bits of the 8th season.

I love S8 Bran. He is there to move the plot along - "We don't have time for this (pleasantries). You dragon took down the wall."  

And he is here for the snark. "What we do for love". Despite what Bran claims, I sense a teenage boy lurking in the 3 eyed raven.

And I love that Tyrion still has goals should the dead rip him apart. He hopes he marched down to King's Landing and kills Cersei. 

[One Tough Cookie]

3 hours ago, izabella said:

o many Houses have been wiped out - Tyrells, Martells, Tarlys,

But Sam is a Tarly and now Lord, or am I missing something?

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Well, it's almost here.

What I equally want and dread,  Team Stark vs. The Dead.

Won't be time to burn the fallen, during the Battle.

So we'll probably see our faves become Wights, D&D can be that cruel.

[lucindabelle]

10 hours ago, MisterBluxom said:

Seems to me the answer to this must be qualified by the reminder that like many other characters, the NK is something conjured up by the author to complement part of this story line and cannot be analyzed in terms of anything real.

I do not mean to insult anyone by saying this. I know you understand this. So why am I repeating it?

LOL I am a drama critic. With a Phd in theater and a master's in English. I know it is fiction. That doesn't excuse the lack of a motivation. Why did NK do it? The author made it up! is the lamest answer in the world and it IS insulting our intelligence. The Night King's story is not compelling because I can't quite believe in it-- it's called "willing suspension of disbelief." because he has no understandable motive whatsoever.

[TheGourmez]

19 minutes ago, One Tough Cookie said:

But Sam is a Tarly and now Lord, or am I missing something?

I think you're just missing that Sam is also a Brother of the Night's Watch, who give up all claims to lands, family, etc. Obviously, the Night's Watch basically no longer exists, so yeah, Sam'll probably become Lord Tarly. But he was disowned by his father, so it could pass through his sister instead.

[BooBear]

6 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

That committee at the beginning of Episode 2 with Jon, Dany, and Sansa convening together and then also showing Jaime mercy BY LISTENING TO THEIR SUBJECTS (Brienne Tarth) actually made me feel good about any of them taking the Iron Throne.

Dany was quite good about listening to her subjects in Essos. Remember when she would hold court and some slaves came and asked to be slaves again?  I thought Jon was out to lunch there in this most recent episode

4 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

I know it is a minority opinion but if given the choice of Brianne ending up with a strange man that loves her the way she is and is not afraid to show it or be his strange self, and a more attractive, possibly more exciting man that has been sleeping with and professes to love his murderous, lying sister (thus proving he has issues) then I vote for the former. 

I don't feel Tourmond knows Brianne at all. He knows what she looks like but really nothing else. His entire like is based on her looks. Jamie *knows* Brianne and she knows him. I would prefer Brianne have that kind of love and adoration from someone who really knows her well.

5 hours ago, BravoAddict72 said:

I need Brienne and Jamie to both live.

I doubt it though. I think it is going to be Brienne to go making for a motivation for Jamie to really perhaps blame Cersei and take her out in the end. It would be a good twist if the younger more beautiful person that replaces Cersei from the prophecy is Brianne who is more beautiful on the inside and replaces Cersei in Jamie's heart. 

3 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

I also think that Arya will go with him. I don't think she is built for staying at Winterfell. She never wanted to marry a lord and have his children, but that was mostly because she wanted the freedom of being herself and being a warrior. 

No I just can't see Arya ever being a wife and mother and I can't see Gendry (or most men) not wanting to settle down after the NK thing. What might be nice would be for him to meet Sansa and fall for her. I see him and Arya just as good friends with benefits. 

[One Tough Cookie]

41 minutes ago, TheGourmez said:

, Sam'll probably become Lord Tarly.

Well, fortunately, Randall and Dickon Tarly are now burnt toast and I really want them to have a happy ending.

Edited April 24, 2019 by One Tough Cookie

[Andromeda]

16 hours ago, arjumand said:

Why else would we be seeing The Isle of Faces (island in the middle of a lake called the God’s Eye) in the new intro, when we’ve never focused on it before?

I just rewatched the intros for both episodes 1 and 2, but am not seeing this island. Can you tell me where in the intro it is?

ETA: Oh wait! Is it the lake shown below King's Landing? The proportions are off because the city animations are so big on this map.

Edited April 23, 2019 by Andromeda
I think I found it.

[WatchrTina]

Arya seems to find it interesting to learn that Gendry is Robert Baratheon's bastard. And then she asked about his sexual partners.  There is a part of me that thinks she was pleased to find that he was more like her than she thought -- sort of highborn and sort of a misfit.  The questions about the number of sexual partners struck me as her being careful -- she didn't want her first time to be with a total skank who might have picked up a disease somewhere but neither did she want it to be a complete fumble in the dark with a guy who didn't know anything about a woman's body.

A girl may have no name but she's got standards.

Edited April 24, 2019 by WatchrTina

[BitterApple]

I agree with the above comments that a lot of support players are likely to die next week.

I'm thinking Jorah, Greyworm and Brienne are in the most immediate danger. IIRC, they're fighting outside the walls of Winterfell which means they're going to face the full brunt of the Night King's forces. Theon is definitely going to die, because what better way to go than fighting for the boy you betrayed? 

Also, Edd, Pod and Beric are pretty expendable. They're not crucial to any of the main plotlines, so they could be on the chopping block as well. 

I can see Tormund surviving for the purposes of future comic relief. I believe all the Starks, Dany, the Hound, Tyrion and Jamie will make it. 

Of course, D&D could be setting us up for the shock of our lives, so who knows...

[QuinnM]

6 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I can see Tormund surviving for the purposes of future comic relief. I believe all the Starks, Dany, the Hound, Tyrion and Jamie will make it. 

I suspect we’ll see some cliff hangers as well.  How many episodes did we need to wait for Jon Snow to resurrect?  I want to see one of those dire wolves in to save someone’s neck as well.  When I go down the list of people that are ok by me to die and I can’t honestly think of a one.

[WatchrTina]

Some people have been speculating that sending the women and children down into the crypts is a really bad idea given that they are facing an enemy whose modus operandi is to reanimate the dead. 

This is a very good point.

But I also seem to recall reading that Winterfell is built of more than stone.  It was built by Brandon the Builder -- the same guy who built the Wall -- and there are protective enchantments on Winterfell just like the Wall.  They don't protect Winterfell from  human betrayal like what Theon did, nor do they make Winterfell impregnable against attack from enemies.  But I want to believe that they DO keep those dead Starks FIRMLY in their tombs.  I am clinging to that belief until the show proves otherwise in a horrible, horrible way.

Edited April 26, 2019 by WatchrTina

[MissLucas]

I think Brienne will make it, Jaimie will save her thereby concluding his redemption - which means he's a goner.

Ser Davos will also make it since someone has to take out Melisandre. I know that could also be Brienne's job but she already took care of Stannis. A knight must not be greedy.

Tyrion will survive since his plot is nowhere finished. He still has to kill Cersei and/or betray Daenerys.

Jon and Dany and Arya are protected by plot armor. Not so sure about Sansa despite all the talk about the pack surviving.

Theon might survive just st screw with everybody claiming he's the most obvious WW-fodder.

Ser Jora will die protecting his cousin, it would be a fitting ending.

Grey Worm can't die because he promised Missandei some beaches!

Argh, this is getting depressing. Nobody dies - everybody gets a car dragon! 

Edited April 24, 2019 by MissLucas

[Absurda]

Quote

I don't feel Tourmond knows Brianne at all. He knows what she looks like but really nothing else. His entire like is based on her looks. Jamie *knows* Brianne and she knows him. I would prefer Brianne have that kind of love and adoration from someone who really knows her well.

He also knows she's a badass extremely skilled fighter.  That counts for a lot with the wildlings so I don't think it's all superficial.  But, he doesn't know who she is deep down (very few people do; she doesn't reveal much), though that isn't for lack of trying on his part.  I don't mind him but I think it would be very out of character for Brianne to go for him when her other loves have been very different men from him.  She has a type and, sadly for Tormond, he's not it.

[CeeBeeGee]

8 hours ago, Law Mom said:

So true. Remember Karsi? She was the kickass wildling warrior mom who let her guard down for a split second when she saw the wight children and it was her downfall. God, she was one of the best single episode characters in this whole damn show.

She was GREAT. One of the pleasures of this show is the amount of sheer talent on display. In just one scene you were rooting for her, and felt her tragedy at the end.

5 hours ago, newms said:

Sam: His story is done as well as his wife. They are tied to the Wall and the North. His family is gone now in the south. 

No, his mother and sister are still at Hornhill.

[TaurusRose]

2 hours ago, One Tough Cookie said:

But Sam is a Tarly and now Lord, or am I missing something?

Also Sam’s mother and sister are still alive.

[AshleyN]

5 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

I disagree about Sam.  I think, since his journey started after his father made him abandon his right to family lands and title; I believe his full circle is to be given his family lands and titles back and  taking up his birthright as head of his family.

I've long thought that Sam's destiny was to write the history of this time period.

The notable lack of any Stark interactions in this episode makes me think that they're safe, but that could just be wishful thinking. I like to think we'll get at least one scene with the four of them before all is said and done.

I actually think all of the Starks/Lannisters/Targaryans are going to survive this one, with the possible exception of Jaime. When it comes to the secondary characters though anyone is fair game, with the most obvious death pool candidates being Theon, Grey Worm, and Brienne.

[Andromeda]

9 hours ago, terrymct said:

I'm hoping Varys is too obvious choice to be the spy.  He's also gone through an arc where he's shown his loyalty is with Westeros rather than any one ruler.   

Why are we sure there's a spy in Dany's camp? What have I missed?

I think Sam could die — that's why Bran wanted him to go tell John right THEN about his parentage. Gilly and little Sam are definite potential victims, too.

I have always liked Sam, being a fellow book-loving nerd, but I soured on him after he blamed Dany for his father's and brother's deaths and made out that she's scary because of it. His father is more of a monster than Daenerys could ever be. Remember his idea was to whip the men in the train to get it to move faster? Total pig. His brother was OK, just really, really stupid (Darwin Award stupid). And willing to be named the heir despite having an older brother doesn't speak well of his character.

If Sam survives, I would love him to go be lord at his family home with his mother and sister — after he realizes he can be on decent terms with Dany.

As for other fallen houses, didn't the Tyrells have a grandson/brother, that Margery wanted to marry Sansa to at one point? Why do they keep saying the house is no more? The castle is no more, but it almost sounded as if no one was home but the guards and the Queen of Thorns. I suppose the son is dead now.

Other houses may be gone, but remember where they come from. Usually from a family member serving the ruler well in battle and being rewarded with a title and lands. So there can and should be new houses established (remember Jamie telling Bronn that after the war he can have his pick of castles. Bron would be founding a new house, not just moving in.)

On Rhaegar and Lyanna... Despite the so-called romance of their wedding/affair, they're both shits. Poor Jon.

Finally, on the NK's motivations... Maybe he's really a force of nature, or even in actuality nature. For instance, he's kind of a neat symbol for climate change, if you're into allegory. (the humans' actions are political, mostly ignoring the oncoming threat.) There are a lot of ways to read the text/subtext.

Edited April 24, 2019 by Andromeda
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