sumiregusa

Agreed. This has been the most frustrating bit of recycled arguments in favor of D&D's catastrophically bad writing decisions -- the idea that being ruthless with your enemies and using dragons to exact justice means you're bound to go mad and smorc thousands of harmless civilians. We could probably go back and forth until the end of time (in fact it we probably have) about whether you agree with the choices Daenerys has made in her journey but there is no precedent for the writers encouraging us to believe that this has always been the obvious end to her character arc. They defended her, they propped her up as a heroine, they showed her having compassion for victims and slaves, they all but have a marquee rolling across the screen saying "root for her" during all her scenes for the past 10 years. THEY did that, not any Dany fans just wanting to whitewash her character. Pivoting from that for shock value shows that the writers don't even care about their own story. And honestly if I have to rehash the concept of executing TRAITORS and how it is consistent with the narrative of THIS UNIVERSE one more time... It's not even worth it at this point. Dany executed those poor innocent Tarlys, Dany didn't cry at her psychotic and abusive brother's death, Dany burned the witch who wiped out her family, Dany crucified the masters who crucified children, blah blah blah fine. She did all those things. But guess what? She also cared so much about civilian casualties that she chained up her own children in a dungeon when there was even a hint that Drogon had torched that little girl. She has never sacrificed human life for the sake of her own fire-and-bloodlust. There has always been a cause and an effect. Period. Her vengefulness and lack of empathy has been towards her enemies and only them. She is purposely shown to be the contrast to ACTUAL crazy people who kill and torture for fun. Otherwise what is the point of her? If she is just another Cersei or even Ramsey doing shit because she can then they could’ve gotten rid of her years ago. I can't believe that I, someone who doesn't necessarily care for Dany or all the "yas queen" moments we've gotten over the years, can see that plain as day. I don't think others who see the same thing hAvEn'T bEeN PaYinG aTtEnTIoN. I think D&D wanted to subvert their audience to cover up their own laziness and terrible decisions and people have fallen for it in droves.

You missed the context of what I was actually responding to but...cool. I love how Sansa has to be mentioned any time Dany is even when no one is talking about her.

This one got me in the giggle dick. Kinda says what I've been saying.

Right so...she listened to her advisor. She showed her rational mind, she backtracked, she did the right thing. Shouldn't everybody be given credit when they take someone's good advice? Is the argument "oh well you initially wanted to do something bad so you're bad"?? You're totally entitled to your opinion. Never tried to change it. Just stating what I see to be true based on the story we have been told. Saying "roast" was a hilarious choice of words on my part, I'll give you that.

Perfectly willing and acting on that will are two different things. By that same stretch, every single person on this show is a piece of shit due to their natural impulses. It's a slippery slope to roast one person for that and not any of the others.

Pretty much all I've been trying to say.

Not to cut you off at the knees but...you are kind of missing the point. It doesn't seem like a one-side argument to me, it seems like someone presenting the facts as the show presented them to the audience. The same writers who wrote this episode wrote all the episodes before. They're introducing plot points in the 11th hour that are contradictory to their own story. It's bad writing, period. Now whether or not you have agreed with every choice Dany has made over the course of the entire show is definitely another discussion. The only "arguments" I have seen repeated are about the Tarlys. She listened to her advisor (Tyrion) asking her to allow Randall to take the Black. She hesitated, turned to him, and gave him the chance to accept. He denied the offer. He was a traitor and he was executed for it. Dickon stood with his father due to his own stupidity. That is what happened. Burnniinnng someone aliiiive oh my goooshhhh well no one seems to mind when it happens to bad guys so why is this different? I'm not a Dany apologist. I don't have a problem with setting her up to be "The Mad Queen" if that's really what they want. But guess what? They did more telling than showing, they used other characters reaching outside their normal faculties to prop up bad plot devices. It wasn't done well at all. That's exactly what the article says.

Game of Thrones is spending its last hours ruining Daenerys Targaryen I think reading this would benefit everyone at this point.

Emilia is definitely entitled to her opinion, as is anyone. She knows the character just about as good or better than anyone else. You're free to disagree with her assessment but that's just your choice to make I guess. Also you can't really compare anything that happened with Viserys to anything happening now, sorry to say. He was fixing to kill her and her unborn child. He'd been abusing her all their lives. You don't root for Viserys in this story. You just don't.

I wasn't calling anyone out by name. There's been numerous people saying the same shit. Alluding to it by having characters saying it for the sake of being a plot device and having little to no evidence to confirm it doesn't count as anything to me, begging everyone's pardon. Fully agreed on Boardwalk Empire though. I loved that show with everything in me and they did it dirty.

Adding what I actually thought of this episode: I hated it. This show is fanfiction trash. There. I'm done now.

I really want everyone here who seems to have seen the writing on the wall with Daenerys going crazy to just stop acting like vindicated experts and pay attention to Emilia Clarke's interviews following the show. Let me know if you still think you always believed she would end up this way because I can guarantee you that she doesn't agree.

I just can't anymore. I just simply can't.

Maybe some people weren't surprised that they had a full confrontation with the AOTD but I sure was. Also Jon killing the walker.

I don't think they need to be random. They're capable of writing good surprises -- i.e. Hardhome, as I mentioned before. The fact that they have shown they can do it and are just choosing to do otherwise is IMO the worst kind of horrible storytelling. As for GRRM, that is a separate complaint for a different day. He has been sitting back collecting checks without a care in the world so I don't have much to say in his defense. I just know it's disappointing when D&D intentionally fall short of the bar they set for themselves with their own show.