S09.E04: Love and Loss

[Evagirl]

Has anybody heard that Jana might have a beau?  I read somewhere (probably in some rag while standing in the supermarket checkout), that she is the next Duggar to be in a relationship.

[Churchhoney]

46 minutes ago, jcbrown said:

I wonder if Jessa recognizes that she is being edited to look like the incurious dullard she actually is.

I wonder if Jackson has a growth hormone deficiency.

I wonder why these young parents allow a "storyline" to be built around their babies' poop, thus utterly violating the kids' privacy (I know, I know, people who track their mother's ovulation don't believe in privacy).

I wonder how anyone can stand to be around Lauren, with her passive-aggressiveness and her drama.

I wonder why I continue to follow this clusterduck of a family.

Kinda reminds me of a Walt Whitman poem. Guess this one would be "Leaves of Ass." 

[graefin]

1 hour ago, jcbrown said:

I wonder why these young parents allow a "storyline" to be built around their babies' poop, thus utterly violating the kids' privacy

Duggars and maintaining privacy? Dude, that $hip $ailed a long time ago! The new generation is just perpetuating the cycle.

[bythelake]

The first clue that the cake was going to be a disaster, was when Jessa preheated the oven with the instructions still taped to the oven rack. Next, she had to google how to test the baking powder dated 2016.

Jessa acted really dumb  in her interview. I guess she never had made a cake before. Did Meechelle teach her girls anything? Don’t any of them have a natural curiosity to search the internet for recipes, or watch a cooking show even if they I didn’t learn at home?

For crying out loud, my grandson was making one bowl brownies from the recipe on the back of Bakers chocolate when he was 12.

All this episode did was demonstrate how inadequate they are in everything they do.

If the Bates girls were watching they were probably rolling on the floor. 

I think I watched for a total of 5 min.before I switched channels. What a bore. I actually felt sorry for Jessa and that’s a first.

[Chicklet]

Oh the sniffing just drove me nuts. I didn't even see tears to go with it. And yea Lauren been there, done that twice and only told my doctor and my husband. 

She is very very interested in being on tv.

[SunnyBeBe]

2 hours ago, sATL said:

I have a basic gluten question..does it cause other issues besides intestinal? Like cholesterol,  blood pressure,  asmatic, weight  gain, diabetes , hair/skin issues? I guess i.m asking why is it better NOT  to eat gluten?

I"m no expert, but from what I've been seeing on tv and online, there are people who have gluten issues, like Celiac disease, but, if you don't, there isn't any benefit to avoiding it.  It sort of became a trendy thing to do, but, I haven't found any doctor who says there are benefits for the general public, nor is it advertised that way.  Here's an article I found on it.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/going-gluten-free-just-because-heres-what-you-need-to-know-201302205916

Does anyone know why Jinger gave up coffee? She said it wasn't about the baby, but, for her health.  I've read that coffee in moderation is actually pretty good for your health. 

[OpieTaylor]

19 minutes ago, bythelake said:

The first clue that the cake was going to be a disaster, was when Jessa preheated the oven with the instructions still taped to the oven rack.

Did that happen on this latest episode? Because didn't she also do that on an episode a few seasons ago, not long after getting married? Or is that what you're referring to - meaning that she's struggled with baking/cooking for years now

[Sew Sumi]

They flashed back to the instruction manual incident during the episode, but I can see someone thinking she'd just done it if they weren't paying attention (as I know no one really does during these mind-numbingly boring episodes).

[Pingaponga]

I can't comment on the cake baking thing, it was just so ridiculous.  Though it reinforced my like for Kendra.

But Lauren.  I had a friend who had suffered several miscarriages before a successful pregnancy, and she told me before I got pregnant that the benefit of telling your family of a pregnancy early on is that they will be able to support you if anything goes wrong.  She found that it is easier for people to be sympathetic if they felt invested in the pregnancy as well. 

So when the producer asked Lauren if she thought that she had announced too early, I understood her response that she was glad for the support from her mother and...Mama Michelle?  (Is that how she referred to Michelle?) It dovetailed with my friend's advice. I think the apprehension of "announcing too early" is the fear of jinxing the pregnancy. 

But Lauren's reaction to the miscarriage just reinforced to me how young Lauren actually is. Yes, the miscarriage of a wanted child is devastating. But her reference to "losing her only child" just seemed...over-the-top? She is SO young. Odds are she hasn't been told she can't have more children. I know many, many people who have miscarried at various stages of pregnancy - including a friend whose first child died in utero at 30 weeks - and I'm pretty sure none of them would have referred to the loss as "losing their only child". Unless they knew they were unable to have more children. Which was not the case for any of them.

To me, Lauren came across as someone very, very young who firmly believes she has more life experience than she has. Which I guess in her culture is the case - she is now married, so considered a full-fledged adult. Whereas when I was her age my friends and I were at university trying to figure out how to get papers written and also attend house parties and plan out how to get summer jobs during a recession. Is Lauren even old enough to buy alcohol, should she ever want to?

[tabloidlover]

Speaking of Lauren’s dramatic explanation...  Was I the only one curious when she mentioned seeing the baby in the toilet?  She clearly wasn’t far enough along to recognize a baby per se.  I say this as someone who suffered a miscarriage without realizing it (or that I was pregnant, it was early as well) at 19.   Without getting too gross, let’s just say that mine happened in a similar way, but I definitely didn’t recognize anything...

Am I the only one not getting it??  

Edited March 5, 2019 by tabloidlover

[Lunera]

Jessa had a Kitchenaid mixer on her wedding registry, so they either returned it or  she chose not to use it to look like a fool.

[Marthalord]

1 hour ago, Evagirl said:

Has anybody heard that Jana might have a beau?  I read somewhere (probably in some rag while standing in the supermarket checkout), that she is the next Duggar to be in a relationship.

Oh yes hon, but you’re a little late to the party! Besides the speculation that’s been going on continuously for the past 5 years, recently there has been a spike in it, especially cause she got an Instagram. There’s no validity to that gossip and she does not appear to be in a relationship. She’s in the same position she was 5 years ago

I still don’t know why it was necessary for Lauren to discuss this with the whole country. I understand that sharing helps people who have suffered similar experiences, but I couldn’t imagine talking about that with the whole world. Sad there’s no privacy. Im sure TLC didn’t mind, their pockets are full. 

[Absolom]

Lauren was ludicrous in her over the top losing her only baby as if her one miracle only chance IVF conceived already born child had died.  Miscarriages while sad don't need to be exaggerated.  They're quite common and don't require an entire melodrama.  I think my daughter settled very nicely on her path after three miscarriages before carrying a pregnancy to term:  tell those people you are pregnant who you are comfortable telling or who you'd want to tell that you miscarried.  The rest can wait.  

And what Lauren could see delivered was the egg sac.  

Ratings are in.  Small drop in the rating from last week.  

985 K viewers and a .23 rating.  31st cable show of the day.

For comparison Sister Wives had 1.568 M viewers and a .40 rating on Sunday night.  

[Lunera]

Lauren most likely just saw a small blood clot on a piece of tissue and called it a baby because these people consider it a human being as soon as conception occurs. Lauren and Josiah even said they hope to see their child in heaven someday 🙄.

[sATL]

2 hours ago, Lunera said:

Lauren most likely just saw a small blood clot on a piece of tissue and called it a baby because these people consider it a human being as soon as conception occurs. Lauren and Josiah even said they hope to see their child in heaven someday 🙄.

I think those "words of comfort" came from Michelle and/or Mrs. Swanson. At 19 - I don't think most are making a list/plans of whom they hope to see in heaven... 

I noticed that Josiah didn't seem overly broken up like Lauren was..I know everyone handles grief/loss differently but he was extra-at-peace to me. Trying not to say  relieved... 

I think it was 3-4 weeks ago when Whitney Bates miscarriage was shown -Zach held a huge bible and started to sound like just Gil, with Erin her family in attendance. And then later planted a tree in honor of loss.

Edited March 6, 2019 by sATL

[tabloidlover]

46 minutes ago, Lunera said:

Lauren most likely just saw a small blood clot on a piece of tissue and called it a baby because these people consider it a human being as soon as conception occurs. Lauren and Josiah even said they hope to see their child in heaven someday 🙄.

Thank you!  This is kinda where I was going, but couldn’t think of an eloquent way to say it.  I’m sure that was what I saw as well, but there was more than one clot and therefore I could never have identified it.   I think she has embellished quite a bit.  

[Horrified]

9 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I vote for the "she's a big dumb bumbler"............. -- that they're steeped in ignorance and have never learned how to think. 

Big dumb bumbler!  Good one!

I just can't abide people who don't have one ounce of curiosity in their cells.  I think (oh there I go, thinking again!) that they've been taught not to think VS not learning how to think.

How could those morons not even follow a recipe's instructions?  And a couple of those girls had kitchen aid mixers. What have they been doing with them?  Obviously not mixing anything. Maybe they think the mixers  are counter decor. 

And the waste! Oh the waste. Ingredients and cakes dumped in the garbage were so anathema to me. I have the frugal blood of depression/war era parents coursing through my veins. I would think that waste like that falls into some kind of sin category, no?

Edited March 6, 2019 by Horrified

[truebluesmoky]

I thought rather than giving them busy work, Jana had the boys doing the airplanes because of their gender role crap.

I felt bad for Josie when she was explaining that she had never eaten gluten free stuff because no one in her family had been gluten free, and Lauren accusingly chided her with “I’m in your family and I’m gluten free!” Right, Lauren, but you’re a brand new addition to her family. Josie was actually making sense, basically meaning that no one in the Duggar household was gluten free and it was new to her family.

Edited March 6, 2019 by truebluesmoky

[McManda]

Re: the benefits to eating gluten free if you aren't celiac;

I've heard that it's more how you cut out gluten, especially if one does it to be "healthy". Cutting out gluten tends to cut out the empty carbs and high calorie foods - cookies, cakes, breads, beers, pastas - and if you replace those foods with fruits and veggies it can have health benefits that one might have had previously.

It's when you start replacing the gluten-containing items with similar foods - gluten free versions of cookies, cakes, breads - that's when you run into issues because they can actually be less healthy than their gluten-containing counterparts. It's kind of like how fat-free versions of foods are generally less healthy than their fat-containing versions. To maintain the taste they swapped the fat with sugar, and turns out sugar is worse health-wise than fat.

Of course there are reasons to be both gluten free (and fat free), but if you don't have a medical reason to and just want to be "healthy" and probably lose weight and balanced diet is more effective. But always do your own research and talk with your doctor; I'm not a nutritionist! (For example, I'm not sugar free by any means, but I do try to pay attention to how much added refined sugar I eat. It's eye opening.)

[Jynnan tonnix]

5 hours ago, jcbrown said:

I wonder if Jessa recognizes that she is being edited to look like the incurious dullard she actually is.

I wonder if Jackson has a growth hormone deficiency.

I wonder why these young parents allow a "storyline" to be built around their babies' poop, thus utterly violating the kids' privacy (I know, I know, people who track their mother's ovulation don't believe in privacy).

I wonder how anyone can stand to be around Lauren, with her passive-aggressiveness and her drama.

I wonder why I continue to follow this clusterduck of a family.

I don't actually watch the show, so I may be missing something of what significance was given to the various things mentioned about this episode, but, really, while it may be less than an appetizing topic, how is discussion of a baby's poopy diaper a violation of said child's privacy?

[Marigold]

I've had 7 miscarriages. 

The one I had similar to Lauren's time frame: I had mild labor pains for a few hours and shortly after passed a sac like a butter bean size.  Then I bled heavily for about 4-5 days. 

[sATL]

Going back down memory lane... isn't this the same crew who used to bake bread for the family using their commercial family kitchen ?  ( link )

Cake isn't bread, but the concept is there.... IE preheat oven to 350..

Edited March 6, 2019 by sATL

[jcbrown]

13 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

I don't actually watch the show, so I may be missing something of what significance was given to the various things mentioned about this episode, but, really, while it may be less than an appetizing topic, how is discussion of a baby's poopy diaper a violation of said child's privacy?

Because the Internet is forever and your poop habits are out there for all the world to see. Not that these kids will ever go to prom, but do you want your prom date to see video of your diaper blow-outs when they google you before your date? I am not a parent but I know many who are thoughtful about what they post on the interwebs about their kid, for both safety and privacy reasons.

And also, eyew. No one needs to see that.

Edited March 6, 2019 by jcbrown

[wilsie]

4 hours ago, Pingaponga said:

I can't comment on the cake baking thing, it was just so ridiculous.  Though it reinforced my like for Kendra.

But Lauren.  I had a friend who had suffered several miscarriages before a successful pregnancy, and she told me before I got pregnant that the benefit of telling your family of a pregnancy early on is that they will be able to support you if anything goes wrong.  She found that it is easier for people to be sympathetic if they felt invested in the pregnancy as well. 

So when the producer asked Lauren if she thought that she had announced too early, I understood her response that she was glad for the support from her mother and...Mama Michelle?  (Is that how she referred to Michelle?) It dovetailed with my friend's advice. I think the apprehension of "announcing too early" is the fear of jinxing the pregnancy. 

But Lauren's reaction to the miscarriage just reinforced to me how young Lauren actually is. Yes, the miscarriage of a wanted child is devastating. But her reference to "losing her only child" just seemed...over-the-top? She is SO young. Odds are she hasn't been told she can't have more children. I know many, many people who have miscarried at various stages of pregnancy - including a friend whose first child died in utero at 30 weeks - and I'm pretty sure none of them would have referred to the loss as "losing their only child". Unless they knew they were unable to have more children. Which was not the case for any of them.

To me, Lauren came across as someone very, very young who firmly believes she has more life experience than she has. Which I guess in her culture is the case - she is now married, so considered a full-fledged adult. Whereas when I was her age my friends and I were at university trying to figure out how to get papers written and also attend house parties and plan out how to get summer jobs during a recession. Is Lauren even old enough to buy alcohol, should she ever want to?

What a kind explanation.  Lauren can be annoying to watch but we don't ever know what someone else's loss or grief is.  This was a big setback in any family but in a family whose business is birthing babies this must have been so much more difficult.  And like you said, she is so very young/immature.  

[Jynnan tonnix]

21 minutes ago, jcbrown said:

Because the Internet is forever and your poop habits are out there for all the world to see. Not that these kids will ever go to prom, but do you want your prom date to see video of your diaper blow-outs when they google you before your date? I am not a parent but I know many who are thoughtful about what they post on the interwebs about their kid, for both safety and privacy reasons.

And also, eyew. No one needs to see that.

Hmm... I guess I can see that to some extent, but, honestly, a baby is a baby, every baby has blowouts on occasion, and while someone going on and on about one's diaper habits in major, personal detail to a specific prom date in the future could get a bit awkward, I can't see that the fact that there's a blip or two out there, even in internet-space about a few messy diapers or whatever is going to traumatize anyone. Maybe I'm wrong, but I imagine that if I was on the receiving end of that sort of "breach of privacy" I'd probably just laugh about it.

[Fostersmom]

6 hours ago, graefin said:

Well, of course it would be Jana, since she was his real moth . . . I mean, his buddy. He naturally gravitated toward her for comfort rather than Michelle, who is pretty much useless.

BTW, I thought it was interesting that Jana's cake-making tactic was to get her teammates out of her way by assigning them busy work so that she could do the actual baking herself. I felt kinda sorry for the boys (Jackson in particular, who seemed like he wanted to participate; I don't think Tyler cared much). That seemed rather ruthlessly competitive of her and not really in the spirit of teamwork (although I do realize it was a competition!).

Jackson really did want to participate, didn't he? It was telling when he made a comment about "Aunt Michelle's" plane winning the little plane contest. That also seemed like there might be a bit of jealousy going on there too. 

Didn't Jana say she was super competitive when they had that game night? It wouldn't surprise me if she is. Winning something might be the only way she was allowed to take pride in things in her life for the longest time. 

[cereality]

Jackson is FIFTEEN??  So IRL he’d be a sophomore or junior in high school?? I would never have guessed that because he comes across like an 11 or 12 year old sixth grader in behavior and in looks.  I mean IRL, even at the lowly public schools that he was criticizing because they’d have him waking up at 6 am – a sophomore would not be the kid telling you that 2x10 = 20.  A sophomore would be in advanced algebra/precalc if he was an advanced kind of kid or even just basic algebra if he wasn’t an academic star.  An elementary schooler is the one who’d be doing simple multiplication with you.

But JB and Michelle ain’t into book learnin’ so whatever.  But how could they not notice that something may be off with him physically? I mean maybe he’s fine – lots of boys are small, late bloomers etc.  But this isn’t exactly their first son.  He’s got like 10 older bros – all of whom looked like teen boys/young men by 15 and then started looking like tubby 35 year old men by age 18-20.  This isn’t exactly a family where late puberty is an issue.  I mean maybe he’s just destined to be short – but there are shorter guys in the family too – Josiah; some combo of Jason/James/Justin (can’t tell them apart) – even they didn’t look like little boys a year or two ago when they were Jackson’s age.  You’d think a drs. visit would be in order just to make sure everything is fine and he’s just a late bloomer.  But then JB and Michelle don’t believe in drs. esp for something that doesn’t involve birthing; probably don’t want to pay the copay esp for an issue with a boy – I mean it’s not like it’s a girl who heaven forbid may not be able to have children in a few years; and likely wouldn’t allow an exam anyway bc a guy’s exam when it comes to puberty involves looking . . . down below . . . .

I do wonder if there’s some malnutrition at play with him.  From what we’ve seen this family fends for itself.  We’ve seen JB eating cold vegetables straight out of the can; kids mixing oatmeal packets into cold water etc.  The vast majority of the family cooks are married off, and while Jana and Johannah are still around – with way fewer people in the house, I bet Jana is taking the foot of the gas with the housework. Maybe they just make dinner for the family nightly but that’s it.  It’s possible what you do for breakfast or lunch is up to you – or up to the whims of the mother of the year if once a week she wants to make brunch or something. 

I can see an immature kid like Jackson and the ones younger than him struggling with that kind of set up – not knowing what to eat, just snacking on whatever all day, until he gets his heaping helping of TTC at night.  It may be really obvious on him though bc he’s a boy and teen boys need to consume a TON of calories when they are in growth spurts to put on adult height; the rest of the younger ones are girls and it doesn’t much matter if they’re malnourished bc JB and Michelle want them cute and petite for marriage purposes.  His older bros are no longer subject to this because all of them have “graduated” high school and are “working” – which means they’re out of the house for some part of the day and presumably JB pays them something, so I’m guessing there’s a lot of burgers and subs being bought daily.  Yet Jackson at home by himself with all girls just may not be getting enough calories – I mean it’s not like his parents would notice.

[3 is enough]

Jackson will be 15 at the end of May.  I am assuming this stuff was filmed before JD and Abbie's wedding, so September/October ish, which would make him around 14 1/2 at the time.  But still, he does look like an 11 or 12 year old.

[Malvina]

So it seems over the past 5 years Jessa used her oven exactly twice - to cook the manual and this episode. Oy. 

[JoanArc]

Jim Bob was mocked when he was in school for being puny. All the boys have some level of puniness in their looks. 

Also, Jessa had registered for nice mixer . It's our fault for not getting her one.

I'm glad this TLC Cake Show/Cult Family crossover got middling ratings.

[Churchhoney]

7 hours ago, Malvina said:

So it seems over the past 5 years Jessa used her oven exactly twice - to cook the manual and this episode. Oy. 

I don't watch so I don't know whether this was a separate episode or the manual episode.

But there was the time she made the beef-and-potatoes casserole and dumped chunks of raw, unbrowned ground beef in with a bunch of big potato chunks and baked it in the oven. ...

And maybe appeared to be auditioning for her own cooking show or something? Since she apparently offered "explanations" of her process and recipe to the audience (cooking lessons from somebody who doesn't know you brown ground beef when you're cooking with it....) .

So....maybe three times? 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Churchhoney

[SabineElisabeth]

15 hours ago, Pingaponga said:

The miscarriage just reinforced to me how young Lauren actually is. Yes, the miscarriage of a wanted child is devastating. But her reference to "losing her only child" just seemed...over-the-top? 

It really bugs me to hear someone say this person isn't entitled to feel pain, sadness, etc because something worse has happened to that person. Be that as it may, Lauren and her references to losing her "only child?" For pete's sake - grieve to your heart's content, but for the love of all things holy can you please be less annoying while doing it??  I have tried to like Lauren.  But I just can't get there. Not even close, actually. 

Team Kendra here, as well, all the way.  LOVE that girl.  🙂

[Barb23]

44 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I don't watch so I don't know whether this was a separate episode or the manual episode.

But there was the time she made the beef-and-potatoes casserole and dumped chunks of raw, unbrowned ground beef in with a bunch of big potato chunks and baked it in the oven. ...

And maybe appeared to be auditioning for her own cooking show or something? Since she apparently offered "explanations" of her process and recipe to the audience (cooking lessons from somebody who doesn't know you brown ground beef when you're cooking with it....) .

So....maybe three times? 

I think the heating of the manual happened while she preheated the oven for baking the potato & ground beef chunks casserole.

Then again the ground beef casserole may have been the time she forgot to preheat the oven. 

[Oldernowiser]

Sometimes I feel sorry for whatever sad schmuck has to produce these crap shows. I picture them lying in bed, drinking heavily, mumbling, “How can I possibly  fill 40 minutes with these inbred ignoramuses? They do nothing. They have nothing to say. I’ve shown every wedding six times. AAARGH!!!!!”

They can’t even get them drunk, put them in tight dresses and have a cat fight, like every other reality show.

Although “Survivor: Duggar Island” has some real potential...

[Churchhoney]

16 minutes ago, Barb23 said:

I think the heating of the manual happened while she preheated the oven for baking the potato & ground beef chunks casserole.

Then again the ground beef casserole may have been the time she forgot to preheat the oven. 

So many cooking mistakes, so little time.....

I actually feel bad for Jessa (and the others) about this stuff. I expect she'd be a more truly confident and even in some way a happier person if her parents had helped her develop solid kitchen skills instead of just making her fix meals without giving her any help or guidance. 

Seems to me that, when you live in your own place, have a family, work a job, it really feels good to be in control, knowledgeable and competent, knowing how to do things that make the situation go well. Honestly, from my perspective, it's scary and overwhelming enough to be a parent and/or run your own household for the first time without being entirely clueless about basic everyday stuff like how to bake things in an oven. So much easier for basics like that to be already automatic for you.........

And, I would think, it'd be especially disconcerting not to know these things when your upbringing was supposedly designed to make you a great parent and household runner. ... When you couldn't say, Well, I didn't learn to use the oven because I was busy learning to be an industrial chemist or a crackerjack hairdresser. In those cases, you can say, "I learned those career skills and I feel competent on the job, so now I'll just learn oven skills in the same way!"  ....

The Duggarling women don't have any other knowledge to bolster their confidence with beyond parenting and household skills. I'd think that'd be at least a little depressing. But I suppose they suppress this feeling pretty thoroughly.

Plus, of course, they don't really know the feeling of that kind of confidence, I suppose. Another legacy of their "education." 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Oldernowiser]

Sorry, not giving them any kind of pass on not knowing basic cooking. My mother hated cooking and it showed. The only thing I remember her teaching me how to cook was fried chicken...which I have never made.

But I LEARNED. It’s all out there and was even before the internet and now it’s only a click away. Read something for chrissake.

Jessa spent plenty of time online learning the duck-lip I’m-so-hot selfie pose...she can Youtube how to bake a cake, FFS.

[bythelake]

17 hours ago, OpieTaylor said:

Did that happen on this latest episode? Because didn't she also do that on an episode a few seasons ago, not long after getting married? Or is that what you're referring to - meaning that she's struggled with baking/cooking for years now

Maybe it was a flashback to the one years ago and I missed it, but it was shown on the most recent episode.

I only watched for a few minutes and  her lack of awareness is astounding.

I think she is better than Jill at raising her children. They seem more animated, alert and engaged than Izzy and Sam, but as far as anything else, she’s clueless. This also includes Ben, he still acts like a teenager.

[Churchhoney]

19 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

Sorry, not giving them any kind of pass on not knowing basic cooking. My mother hated cooking and it showed. The only thing I remember her teaching me how to cook was fried chicken...which I have never made.

But I LEARNED. It’s all out there and was even before the internet and now it’s only a click away. Read something for chrissake.

Jessa spent plenty of time online learning the duck-lip I’m-so-hot selfie pose...she can Youtube how to bake a cake, FFS.

Oh, she definitely can. I agree.

But I also think that they have no experience at all with the pleasure of doing things like that, the skills of learning how to learn, the actual pleasures of curiosity about things other than sexy poses...

You can certainly get these things on your own, and lots of people do. But many people also learn it from an experience -- a parent or a teacher or somebody who gives them some impetus to pursue something. And that's important for people who are somehow kinda dull by nature.

Really, the fact that it seems clear young adults like Jessa haven't developed any drive or curiosity about things other than completely ego-driven, maybe sex-driven things is the main reason I keep saying that they must be pretty dull by nature....And since it's the dull-by-nature people who need help learning, it's why I still do feel sorry for them.

If you're bright and energetic enough, you learn many many things on your own. If you're not, you need a kick start. And that's what parenting and institutions like schools and sports teams and scouts are for. But the Duggarlings haven't had any of those. So they're mired in their own dullness. Which I still find sad! (and not 100 percent their own fault!)

Edited March 6, 2019 by Churchhoney

[libgirl2]

17 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

Sorry, not giving them any kind of pass on not knowing basic cooking. My mother hated cooking and it showed. The only thing I remember her teaching me how to cook was fried chicken...which I have never made.

But I LEARNED. It’s all out there and was even before the internet and now it’s only a click away. Read something for chrissake.

Jessa spent plenty of time online learning the duck-lip I’m-so-hot selfie pose...she can Youtube how to bake a cake, FFS.

When my mom got married she didn't know how to cook. My dad suffered but through the years she got better and better until she could out cook everyone. I'd give up a limb to have her stuffed cabbage again (which I am too scared to make)

When I got married, I didn't know how to cook either. I don't even remember what it is I was able to make for several years. I'm not a great cook and I hate it, but I can whip up several go to dishes that everyone seems to really enjoy. Last night I made chicken in an orange ginger (bottled) sauce. Added some string beans, bean shoots and baby corn, served over rice it was delicious and so easy! 

Edited March 6, 2019 by libgirl2

[Pingaponga]

I think the issue facing Jackson - beyond appearing to be small for his age - is that he has always been considered one of the "littles".  He has always been lumped in the Johannah, Jenni, Jordyn and Josie.  Never the group of boys just above him.  And it appears he has never been given the opportunity to "learn to mature", I guess. 

All of which is kind of odd, when you consider Joy's situation. Joy spent her time hanging out with the boys around her in age until she hit the age of about 13, when she started spending more time with the "big girls" - and by age 15 or so she was suddenly referred to as one of the "big girls" in THs and stuff.  Joy was, to all intents and purposes, forced to "grow up" by the Duggars' definition of gender roles, and yet Jackson doesn't seem to have been given the opportunity to "grow up". Why stuff him into a math lesson with his little sisters? Why not have him working on building projects with his brothers?

[BitterApple]

8 minutes ago, bythelake said:

Maybe it was a flashback to the one years ago and I missed it, but it was shown on the most recent episode.

I only watched for a few minutes and  her lack of awareness is astounding.

I think she is better than Jill at raising her children. They seem more animated, alert and engaged than Izzy and Sam, but as far as anything else, she’s clueless. This also includes Ben, he still acts like a teenager.

I agree. Trust me, I'm not a snob, but when the camera showed the facade of the Mold House, I couldn't help but notice all the scraggly, overgrown shrubs and the peeling paint on the front door. Seriously, what the fuck do these people do all day? Bin can't take an hour in the morning and do some yardwork? It's like they take absolutely no pride in anything. Not their homes, their appearance, their domestic skills, nothing. I just can't imagine slogging through life in such mediocrity. 

[libgirl2]

4 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I agree. Trust me, I'm not a snob, but when the camera showed the facade of the Mold House, I couldn't help but notice all the scraggly, overgrown shrubs and the peeling paint on the front door. Seriously, what the fuck do these people do all day? Bin can't take an hour in the morning and do some yardwork? It's like they take absolutely no pride in anything. Not their homes, their appearance, their domestic skills, nothing. I just can't imagine slogging through life in such mediocrity. 

Read the Bible all day? 

[Natalie68]

10 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

Jackson will be 15 at the end of May.  I am assuming this stuff was filmed before JD and Abbie's wedding, so September/October ish, which would make him around 14 1/2 at the time.  But still, he does look like an 11 or 12 year old.

Based on Duggar maturity timeline shouldn't Jackson already be developing the hairline of a 40 year old man?  Poor kid is going to go from pre puberty to soccer dad before he is 20 without all the in between looks.

[madpsych78]

1 hour ago, Pingaponga said:

I think the issue facing Jackson - beyond appearing to be small for his age - is that he has always been considered one of the "littles".  He has always been lumped in the Johannah, Jenni, Jordyn and Josie.  Never the group of boys just above him.  And it appears he has never been given the opportunity to "learn to mature", I guess. 

All of which is kind of odd, when you consider Joy's situation. Joy spent her time hanging out with the boys around her in age until she hit the age of about 13, when she started spending more time with the "big girls" - and by age 15 or so she was suddenly referred to as one of the "big girls" in THs and stuff.  Joy was, to all intents and purposes, forced to "grow up" by the Duggars' definition of gender roles, and yet Jackson doesn't seem to have been given the opportunity to "grow up". Why stuff him into a math lesson with his little sisters? Why not have him working on building projects with his brothers?

I wonder if the presence of Tyler is part of the reason. In reality, Jackson is closer in age to Justin than to Tyler, but if Jackson were lumped in with his older brothers, then Tyler would be the only boy surrounded by girls. 

He's 14 1/2, so he probably should be a freshman in high school, but he looks 11. Justin is 1 1/2 years older (turned 16 at the end of 2018) and looks much older. Jackson's barely taller than Tyler, who is four years younger, and probably still shorter than Jana and Johannah.

Edited March 6, 2019 by madpsych78

[libgirl2]

6 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

I wonder if the presence of Tyler is part of the reason. In reality, Jackson is closer in age to Justin than to Tyler, but if Jackson were lumped in with his older brothers, then Tyler would be the only boy surrounded by girls. 

He's 14 1/2, so he probably should be a freshman in high school, but he looks 11. Justin is 1 1/2 years older (turned 16 at the end of 2018) and looks much older. Jackson's barely taller than Tyler, who is four years younger, and probably still shorter than Jana and Johannah.

That is possible. 

[queenanne]

On 3/4/2019 at 10:18 PM, Jenilane6 said:

Jessa wouldn’t want to be the cake that is pretty on the outside and awful on the inside.  Ha ha ha.

That ship has sailed, Jessa!

On 3/5/2019 at 12:59 AM, Spencer Hastings said:

Kendra is my favorite Duggar spouse (for now). She was really natural with Jenni and was humble about their cake tasting the best.  She seems like a genuinely sweet person. 

I can’t fault Jessa for not having baking skills. I’m 31 years old and wouldn’t even need a whole hand to count how many cakes I’ve made! We aren’t cake people in my family so there’s really no need. 

To be fair, while I like Kendra,she’s not that far in age from Jenni... for fundies.

Edited March 7, 2019 by queenanne

[3 is enough]

For me, the issue with Jackson that concerns me is not so much his size- he may just be slower to reach puberty, and as cereality pointed out, he may not be getting enough nutritients to start that growth spurt.  I also have to wonder if the youngest kids are more prone to having issues because Michelle’s body was exhausted and there was a possibility of development issues as a result. I wonder if there is any research on how birth order affects children of mothers who have excessive numbers of pregnancies ?

 But he IS extremely immature for his age.  It could be due to being constantly with the younger girls. I thought JB separated the boys and girls when they hit 12-13?  Not Jackson. Why? 

I still think he is just lost in the crowd to some extent.

[JoanArc]

24 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

I wonder if there is any research on how birth order affects children of mothers who have excessive numbers of pregnancies ?

One of the tired and true correlations with homosexuality is birth order - specifically, the more older brothers you have by the same mother, the more likely a man is to be gay.

God Bless, Duggars.

[3 is enough]

@JoanArc, I recall reading about that! 

[NotthebadVictoria]

Regrettably watched this atrocity and have some thoughts!

-Jessa spent so much time trying to be cute she’s essentially useless. I guess instead of teaching the Hoard of kids they figured “accuracy by volume” the more they have the more likely they are to grow skills.... they are morons after all. I like her less and less as she ages

-Jana, I love Jana, and I am sad for her being the family slave and her only escape is to be her husbands slave 

-Poor Felicity, can’t believe  she hasn’t gotten shaken baby syndrome yet. But damn if she isn’t cute I like Jessas kids

-Lauren- I cant even...... I have had a MC after years of unsuccessful fertility treatments so I know it’s hard. What annoyed me most was when she was cooking and said she was nauseous/had to vomit repeatedly.... we get it, you’re pregnant but it’s the cult clan for pregnancy everyone is pregnant you’re not a special snowflake. Her need for attention and to remind the little girls she was pregnant was exhausting. She’s going to be insufferable when she gets knocked up again.