S03.E13: Pandemonium

[Samsnee]

I do appreciate the cork blork joke.

[bluebox]

A big hole in this plan is that this blogger guy is both TERRIBLE and under the impression that he actually belongs there. The whole reason Eleanor realized she didn't belong was because Michael suggested she took "real Eleanor Shellstrop"'s place. That's what motivated her to seek out Chidi's help and improve herself. Without that external pressure, the 4 humans aren't going to change or suddenly decide to seek moral philosophy lessons. 

 

Also what is Simone supposed to improve on? She seems dead-on awesome.

[Chaos Theory]

20 minutes ago, bluebox said:

A big hole in this plan is that this blogger guy is both TERRIBLE and under the impression that he actually belongs there. The whole reason Eleanor realized she didn't belong was because Michael suggested she took "real Eleanor Shellstrop"'s place. That's what motivated her to seek out Chidi's help and improve herself. Without that external pressure, the 4 humans aren't going to change or suddenly decide to seek moral philosophy lessons. 

 

Who says he the Eleanor clone.  “Terrible but thinks he belongs there” sounds a whole lot like Tahani to me.    

I don’t think we have seen the real wild card yet.   

Maybe Doug Forcett?

Edited January 25, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[Amarsir]

24 minutes ago, bluebox said:

A big hole in this plan is that this blogger guy is both TERRIBLE and under the impression that he actually belongs there. The whole reason Eleanor realized she didn't belong was because Michael suggested she took "real Eleanor Shellstrop"'s place. That's what motivated her to seek out Chidi's help and improve herself. Without that external pressure, the 4 humans aren't going to change or suddenly decide to seek moral philosophy lessons. 

I was waiting for someone to bring that up. The original 4 had reasons to improve: Eleanor to avoid being thrown out; Chidi because he always wanted to be good and just didn't know how; Jason because he's now surrounded with good influences instead of bad ones; Tahani because she's no longer pressed into rivaly with her sister. Someone who believes "whatever I did was good enough" could easily get even worse.

13 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I don’t think we have seen the real wild card yet.   

Maybe Doug Forcett?

That would be wild. Of all the people with an incentive to get worse!

[Cerulean]

They’re supposed to be “about the same badness”. Did we ever see the four’s actual point totals? If he’s supposed to be Tahani’s correlary, he seems a lot worse. If Simone is Chidi’s (possibly slightly better she’s not indecisive), i can’t wait to see the match’s for Eleanor and Jason. On the other hand, since even Doug’s points were enough, maybe the actual totals are irrelevant.

And even though Chidi is mindwiped, he’s not part of the experiment. Eleanor can completely lie to him... or tell him what she wants. Unless part of his change wax to be less rigid... since he was okay lying about her being the architect. 

Before I didn’t see how this story could last multiple seasons. Now, I don’t see how they can wrap it up in just one year!

Edited January 25, 2019 by Cerulean
Odd formatting.

[ally862]

I was really hoping they'd pull a list minute twist where Chidi didn't have his mind wiped and there was some other big change.  Kristen Bell crushed that montage scene.  She broke my heart.

 

I'm hoping since it's The Good Place they won't go for the obvious and have Simone and Chidi together next season.  It seems obvious but they usually avoid the obvious so fingers crossed.  Even though I'm sure Kristen Bell would knock it out of the park, I just don't want to see Eleanor go through that!

[jmonique]

3 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Anyone who can find anything bad about this finale is an agent from the bad place.   The mind wiping made complete sense.  Chidi can’t lie.  Part of the plan is to teach the new people ethics and to have it start out with him lying to them is a huge problem for him.    Add to that an ex.  

Plus it is a good story line like it or not.  Having  him not  remember who former Arizona trash now good person Eleanor is. It’s every nightmare Eleanor had having her guy right there and forcing her to avoid her worst instincts will be interesting 

 

Yeah, no, me being over the writers repeatedly going to the mindswipe well doesn't mean I don't get it. I, and I'm guessing others, fully see how they led Chidi to this point where he and Eleanor have to make this huge sacrifice.

That doesn't make the "well, let's just take the character's memories" routine any less overused on the show or this any less manufactured. The Chidi who woke up in the waiting room and was greeted by Eleanor is the Chidi who was constantly paralyzed by indecision; we've lost the Chidi who saved Eleanor by imploring her to hold onto her memories of who she was; the Chidi who boldy told her that he loved her and then not only planned a date with her in the way station but also cosplayed as a mailman to fulfill Eleanor's kink; and the Chidi who finally knew happiness in a couple.

Instead, it's Chidi #804, and I'm tired of getting emotionally attached to these characters every season, only to have them and their interactions reset by reboots. Jason and Tahani don't remember falling in love and the growth they gained by trying to make a relationship work. Eleanor and Tahani don't remember becoming BFFs despite hating one another, and the growth they gained by being there for one another. 

I found the mindwipe in the season one finale clever, and thought the second episode of season two that was nothing but mindwipes just brilliant. I'll still watch season four, and I get that pulling one of the original four out of the group dynamic will make for interesting storyline possibilities next season, especially considering he'll think Eleanor is an architect, not Arizona trash. But they need to commit to these characters and allow these relationships to grow and continue, because watching them have to find and rebuild and regain these relationships is getting repetitive to me.

ALL THAT BEING SAID:

The Chidi & Eleanor movie was not just beautiful, but the music that played over it was a feast of artistry. The music team needs a raise for that score alone. It took the montage from lovely into the Rom-Com Hall of Fame.

Edited January 25, 2019 by jmonique

[whiporee]

That was damn near perfect. 

For everyone complaining about a reboot, I don't think it's that at all. A reboot implies starting over from scratch, and while the characters are doing that, the story isn't. We're not starting over in any way. The mind wipe is a plot device, but it's a necessary one here because it sets up a lot of quick truths. Chidi and Eleanor are making real sacrifices for people they love, and for the human race. Chidi did the only thing he could -- he knew he couldn't pull off the deception with Simone, but he's the only one of the group who wouldn't be able to lie convincingly for a long time, and the consequences of failing were beyond catastrophic. 

After the season one reboot, I was worried about the reboots and having to watch the relationships rebuild, and I think on most shows that would be the case. But this show has sped past all that stuff numerous times -- Jeremy Bearimy lets us just assume that relationships play out the way they play out. Mindwipes aside, they haven't replayed any of that stuff -- we've not seen Eleanor and Chidi fall in love multiple times, we've not seen a replay of Tahani/Chidi, we haven't seen Jason first hooking up with Janet again. All of the foundation stuff we're is happening off camera, because we've seen it before. Each of the seasons has been dramatically different but they've all been the same show, in the same serial timeline. Whats' really happened is that Shawn has put them in the worst kind fo hell imaginable -- unintended consequences again. Gen's not going to get them out of it; nothing is going to get them out of them out of their torture.

So now, what's going to happen is the fundamental question will change -- how to be good not when being teased, but when being actively tortured. That's a real question they haven't addressed yet, and I'm looking forward to it. 

[taragel]

I was a little disappointed in this as a season finale too (definitely sad to be wrong about it involving actual pandas!). I think we've been primed for so many twists that I was surprised this played more like a coda that served to return us so almost wholly toward the first season's setup aside from the obvious changes. It was also very downbeat, and I've never fully been convinced by the Chidi/Eleanor thing (they got them together too early for me) so I was less than thrilled it took up so much space in favor of more of a focus on the group.  I expected more of a philosophical debate/question here, I think. 

Like a lot of folks, I am a bit tired of the mindwipes/resets and fear they're treading that familiar ground a bit too frequently, but...this show always surprises me so it's very possible it'll go somewhere else entirely before the s4 premiere is over.

Edited January 25, 2019 by taragel

[cambridgeguy]

44 minutes ago, whiporee said:

we've not seen Eleanor and Chidi fall in love multiple times

Yes we have, although it's been abbreviated a bit.  They went through the exact same beats, too.  In S2 Eleanor saw the tape from Mindy, stewed for a while, and ultimately showed it to Chidi.  In S3 she forced Michael to show her the lead up to that tape, stewed for a while, and then told Chidi what she saw.  Both times Chidi dithered for a bit before realizing he loved her too.  It took a lot less time in S3.  In S2 they didn't get a chance to move beyond their big kiss.  This season we saw some of the next steps.  The difference now is that they saw alternate versions of themselves fall in love and realized those feeling were still present.  Now it's still the same Eleanor but the Chidi she fell in love with is gone and has been replaced by someone who may or may not become that guy again.  Even worse for her, this version of Chidi is almost identical to the version that fell in love with Simone and this time he doesn't have a reason to dump her.

[Xantar]

I see where people are coming from when they complain about the mindwipe, but it truly doesn’t bother me. It’s not a reboot. Every season finale has been a new twist on the original concept, and I’m fine with that. And everybody has had tremendous amounts of character development, and while Chidi has to start over, the rest of Team Cockroach is still much more aware. Well, except maybe Jason.

I do think that the adventures in Real Life this season were a bit of a misstep, but I give credit to the writers for trying and then moving past it. This is still the only show I watch live instead of streaming the day after. 

[Mabinogia]

1 minute ago, cambridgeguy said:

Even worse for her, this version of Chidi is almost identical to the version that fell in love with Simone and this time he doesn't have a reason to dump her.

And to add to that, Simone is now in Eleanor's role of student to Chidi, which is part of what made Eleanor fall in love with him over and over. So basically Eleanor has to watch as Chidi may or may not reenact his romance with Eleanor only now Simone is in the role of student. 

I get why Chidi had to reset himself. He couldn't avoid contact with Simone since their whole scenario hinges on Chidi teaching the four newcomers the way he did the original three, so he has to be around her, he has to interact with her and, if not reset, he would have to lie to her every moment and he knew himself well enough to know he couldn't do it. I also, though, wonder if part of it was fear that his and Eleanor's relationship would out itself, that, if they were both aware they were a couple, Eleanor would keep doing things like slapping his butt and stealing kisses and someone would eventually catch on. 

Either way, I'm excited to see what happens next. I do hope they don't have Chidi falling for Simone because that is so obvious and this show is pretty damned good at avoiding the obvious, but even if they do go that route, I bet they do it in a fresh and interesting way, like they've done everything else so far. 

[Blakeston]

I found it very hard to believe that Michael would be terrified to the point of paralysis.

Throughout the season, he's been doing unbelievably risky things with the fate of all humanity at stake, with minimum trepidation. He's willing to defy the judge to her face, break into different dimensions, attempt all kinds ridiculous schemes where he lies to some of the most important being in existence - no problem.

But introducing himself to the four new humans is too much for him? It all feels very convenient for writers who are trying to put Eleanor front and center.

[iMonrey]

More than the mind-wiping gimmick, I worry the show is starting to rely a little too heavily on the Chidi and Eleanor romance, especially now that they've thrown Simone back into the mix. It felt like such an obvious move that several posters predicted it last week. The hallmark of this show has been its cleverness so if we're starting to guess exactly where they're going it might mean the writers are making easy choices in service of fandom. 

Don't get me wrong, I still love the show and it's still one of the most creative things on TV but I'm starting to see some cracks in its veneer. They might be starting to have trouble keeping this going.

[RainbowBrite]

While I didn't love season 3 as much as the other two seasons, I still have faith that the writers will produce a season 4 of a quality much higher than a standard sitcom. I agree with the posters that would like to avoid a Chidi/Eleanor/Simone triangle, but if it happens, I doubt it would span more than 2-3 episodes, based on the pace of this show so far.

[cpcathy]

I see a few reviews that mention not getting the Eleanor/Chidi romance and I'm so glad I'm not alone. I am just not invested in it, and don't understand what the great moments in the show's history that make their romance so "earned." I think they are just good friends.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

 

Plus it is a good story line like it or not.  Having  him not  remember who former Arizona trash now good person Eleanor is. It’s every nightmare Eleanor had having her guy right there and forcing her to avoid her worst instincts will be interesting 

I don’t love the twist but I do agree that it will great a more interesting story next season. I am looking forward to watching Chidi and Eleanor interact on more equal footing ethically. 

Plus whenever I get worried about the direction of the show I remind myself that it will probably change quickly. It is crazy to think that this episode happened in the same season as The Brainy Bunch. Most shows take years to change as much as this show does in a single season. 

[meep.meep]

15 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Wow really good ending and clever to only wipe Chidi's mind because you have everyone else remembering their history with Chidi except him and yet needing him not to remember.  Add to it his ex girlfriend who was actually a good girlfriend and someone he geniunly liked into the mix and you have ALOT of well Pandemonium because of simply wiping Chidi;s mind.   The scenes with Chidi and Eleanor where they were watching their history was both sweet and sad.  

Anyone can send serial killers to "The Good Place" but it takes real naughty bitch to bring in Tahani's tormenter and then Chidi's ex.    And we still have two more contestants,  

Dare we hope for a real, but evil, Black Bortles?

[Chaos Theory]

6 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

Dare we hope for a real, but evil, Black Bortles?

I was actually thinking someone from whatever team rivals the Jaguars.

And of course Doug Forcett,  

[Noneofyourbusiness]

15 hours ago, Mockingbird said:

I don’t know why they couldn’t just keep Chidi separate from Simone—stash him at Mindy’s or something—but I don’t actually mind one last mind wipe. While each season did end with a mind wipe, I’ve always thought it was more important that each season ended with Eleanor setting the wheels in motion to find Chidi. 

Chidi addressed that. He couldn't just avoid Simone, because part of the plan is for him to teach the new arrivals ethics classes.

[Mockingbird]

14 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I found it very hard to believe that Michael would be terrified to the point of paralysis.

Throughout the season, he's been doing unbelievably risky things with the fate of all humanity at stake, with minimum trepidation. He's willing to defy the judge to her face, break into different dimensions, attempt all kinds ridiculous schemes where he lies to some of the most important being in existence - no problem.

But introducing himself to the four new humans is too much for him? It all feels very convenient for writers who are trying to put Eleanor front and center.

Except this time it’s not just all of humanity at stake. That’s almost too enormous to even comprehend when you’re stealing a key or entering the IHOP. This time, if Michael fails, the four humans he loves are going to spend eternity thinking that he betrayed them, that he takes immense joy out of torturing them. By making the stakes so much smaller in the big scheme of things, I do absolutely believe that this consequence of failure could completely decimate Michael, and it makes me love his character even more. 

Edited January 26, 2019 by Mockingbird

[Gulftastic]

I thought each of the main six actors got time to shine this episode. And shine they did!

Loved it, but so sad. Can't wait for next season

[RainbowBrite]

11 minutes ago, Mockingbird said:

Except this time it’s not just all of humanity at stake. That’s almost too enormous to even comprehend when you’re stealing a key or entering the IHOP. This time, if Michael fails, the four humans he loves are going to spend eternity thinking that he betrayed them, that he takes immense joy out of torturing them. By making the stakes so much smaller in the big scheme of things, I do absolute believe that this consequence of failure could completely decimate Michael, and it makes me love his character even more. 

Didn't MIchael say in this episode, though, that you can't remove only select memories? That would mean that the Bad Place couldn't make Team Cockroach forget Michael's good deeds without removing a lot of other memories as well - probably making them forget him completely?

EDIT: Although, now I can't remember exactly what sort of memory wipe they did on Simone and whether that may conflict with what I've said above.

Edited January 25, 2019 by RainbowBrite

[Noneofyourbusiness]

14 minutes ago, RainbowBrite said:

Didn't MIchael say in this episode, though, that you can't remove only select memories? That would mean that the Bad Place couldn't make Team Cockroach forget Michael's good deeds without removing a lot of other memories as well - probably making them forget him completely?

EDIT: Although, now I can't remember exactly what sort of memory wipe they did on Simone and whether that may conflict with what I've said above.

 

The Bad Place aren't planning to wipe their memories of his good deeds. If they did, the core four wouldn't be confused and betrayed by "Michael" torturing them. They would just wipe any memories of him preparing them for "Michael" not really being him.

He didn't say you can't wipe select memories, exactly. Just that he can't wipe Simone from Chidi's memories without also wiping Eleanor and the rest of his friends from them, because they're in the same memories as she.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Noneofyourbusiness

[DrSpaceman73]

I just don't care much about Chidi and Eleanor together, so this one fell flat to me. 

Really this is the last one of the season?  Disappointing ending. 

I was Janet had a spinoff

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

I was actually thinking someone from whatever team rivals the Jaguars.

And of course Doug Forcett,  

Dare I say it, would be a GREAT excuse to have Peyton Manning on the show. 

Even if he has to fake die to do it. 

[Loandbehold]

For some reason, I was a little underwhelmed by his finale. Individual scenes were great, but it didn't mesh together well. The Chidi/Eleanor montage was very moving. I enjoyed the talk b/w Janet and Eleanor (Robot. Girl. Friend. Actually just one of those three.) Tahani and her blogger nemesis. And Shawn. Any Shawn is good Shawn. And yet, I just didn't feel this one. Maybe a rewatch will change my mind.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

23 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

I was Janet had a spinoff

One composed entirely of Janets. We know she can pull it off.

[ClareWalks]

44 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

 

Dare I say it, would be a GREAT excuse to have Peyton Manning on the show. 

Even if he has to fake die to do it. 

Peyton Manning would be hilarious! Jason could be totally unimpressed by him. "He's no Blake Bortles." Peyton has comedy chops too, folks can YouTube his United Way SNL skit for proof :)

[RainbowBrite]

2 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

The Bad Place aren't planning to wipe their memories of his good deeds. If they did, the core four wouldn't be confused and betrayed by "Michael" torturing them. They would just wipe any memories of him preparing them for "Michael" not really being him.

He didn't say you can't wipe select memories, exactly. Just that he can't wipe Simone from Chidi's memories without also wiping Eleanor and the rest of his friends from them, because they're in the same memories as she.

Thanks for the clarification. I was tired when I watched last night and didn't catch that correctly.

Additional thought: I cannot see The Cockroaches believing Michael would go back to his roots at this point; if they did have someone in the Michael suit, I would expect them to figure out pretty quickly that it wasn't him. He has risked so much to help them.

[BoogieBurns]

1 hour ago, Loandbehold said:

Tahani and her blogger nemesis.

I can't even remember the character name because he instantly became Perez Hilton in my head.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

44 minutes ago, BoogieBurns said:

I can't even remember the character name because he instantly became Perez Hilton in my head.

John Wheaton.

That's funny!

[Wanda]

17 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

  As for Jason, it probably is someone responsible for the Jacksonville Jaguars failing to make it to the Superbowl!

 

I’m going with it being Tom Brady (Bostonian here)

[Wanda]

What if it was Blake Bortells himself? And Jason had to stay a silent Monk in his presence?

[KingOfHearts]

20 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

I'm having a bit of a problem with the finale in that I don't actually buy that Chidi needed mind wipe to avoid ruining the experiment.   Or that he even really thought he would.  Or that anyone would go along with it.  They didn't sell me on that at all.  For the first time it felt like the mind wipe was a convenient cliffhanger for a finale rather than a set up for some amazing swerve.  

@ParadoxLost, we both watched Once Upon a Time. We both know how it is with memory wipes. ;)

This is the first season cliffhanger that I actually don't like. I'm totally on board with "The Good Place" with four new humans and the main characters having to pretend it's heaven, but the Chidi stuff sort of ruined the episode for me. I'll admit I'm not the biggest fan of Eleanor/Chidi as a couple, but my main problem with this plot is that it's incredibly manufactured. Instead of dealing with Simone as an ex and trying not to tamper with the experiment, it's a contrived mind wipe scenario. There's no way Gen would've allowed people with the connections to the humans to participate in the experiment because it's a blatantly obvious conflict of interest. She's kind of an idiot. Simone's memories can be selectively wiped, but Chidi's can't? They can't keep his memories up until they got sent back to earth? They can't give him his pre-Simone memories back? You know when characters constantly say "there's no other way", there IS another way and the show's trying to convince you there isn't. 

I don't know... it's kind of random. Most of the other twists of the show flowed with the narrative, but this one reeks of contrived angst.

[KingOfHearts]

5 hours ago, cpcathy said:

I see a few reviews that mention not getting the Eleanor/Chidi romance and I'm so glad I'm not alone. I am just not invested in it, and don't understand what the great moments in the show's history that make their romance so "earned." I think they are just good friends.

This. I never really bought them as a couple. They just got shoved together because she's the female lead and he's one of the male leads. I don't think they have any chemistry outside of being good friends or teacher/student. You have to be really into their relationship to get anything significant out of this finale. For a show that always challenges itself, it tends to take the easy path when it comes to romantic relationships. "Oh, two characters spent some time together? Let's make them a couple!"

[Iseut]

Quote

For a show that always challenges itself, it tends to take the easy path when it comes to romantic relationships. "Oh, two characters spent some time together? Let's make them a couple!"

Much as I love this show, that's very true. Though the romantic couples on this show have had very sweet moments that I've enjoyed, I can't say that they've affected me any more than the platonic friendships. I think the show plays homage to that, though, because even though Chidi/Eleanor and Janet/Jason may seem a little forced as romantic couples, the friendship conversation between Janet and Eleanor bonding over their broken hearts did not feel forced at all. Janet's "I am one of those three things" was every bit as moving to me as Chidi and Eleanor's movie montage.

[April Bloodgate]

26 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

There's no way Gen would've allowed people with the connections to the humans to participate in the experiment because it's a blatantly obvious conflict of interest. She's kind of an idiot.

 

I agree. At this point, it's totally tainted. It's supposed to be a test of four random humans' abilities to improve, and now it's just as much a test of Team Cockroach's ability to not screw it up too.

Edited January 26, 2019 by April Bloodgate

[Ailianna]

3 hours ago, RainbowBrite said:

Additional thought: I cannot see The Cockroaches believing Michael would go back to his roots at this point; if they did have someone in the Michael suit, I would expect them to figure out pretty quickly that it wasn't him. He has risked so much to help them.

It doesn't matter if we know they would probably figure it out reasonably quickly.  Michael thinks they would believe he betrayed them, and that's what is affecting him.  Threats to the people you love, which is what this is--make the torture even worse--don't always have to be entirely real to be terrifying.

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

Simone's memories can be selectively wiped, but Chidi's can't? They can't keep his memories up until they got sent back to earth? They can't give him his pre-Simone memories back? You know when characters constantly say "there's no other way", there IS another way and the show's trying to convince you there isn't. 

Simone's memories are probably wiped to the point she met Chidi and Eleanor--no selectivity for the same reason Chidi's can't be selectively wiped.

He doesn't have memories from the last time they were in the afterlife, because they were wiped when he was sent back to earth, so he has whatever happened between the air conditioner and Eleanor, which apparently wasn't much.  He has his regular pre-Simone memories though--we won't know for months if he knows everything between the ac and meeting Simone or if he stops at the ac, but he has no other memories due to the reset, if you will, from not dying and living in a different timeline where none of those first 803 reboots happened.

36 minutes ago, April Bloodgate said:

I agree. At this point, it's totally tainted. It's supposed to be a test of four random humans' abilities to improve, and now it's just as much a test of Team Cockroach's ability to not screw it up too.

It was always going to be about Team Cockroach not screwing it up''and Michael didn't think to put any more restrictions on who could be part of it than no one really awful like serial killers or boy band managers.  So it's within the rules, even though not fair (demons, duh), so Gen allowed it.

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, Ailianna said:

Simone's memories are probably wiped to the point she met Chidi and Eleanor--no selectivity for the same reason Chidi's can't be selectively wiped.

He doesn't have memories from the last time they were in the afterlife, because they were wiped when he was sent back to earth, so he has whatever happened between the air conditioner and Eleanor, which apparently wasn't much.  He has his regular pre-Simone memories though--we won't know for months if he knows everything between the ac and meeting Simone or if he stops at the ac, but he has no other memories due to the reset, if you will, from not dying and living in a different timeline where none of those first 803 reboots happened.

They said that his memory was being erased back to is original death. The last thing he will remember is the ac falling on him. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

29 minutes ago, Dani said:

They said that his memory was being erased back to is original death. The last thing he will remember is the ac falling on him. 

Probably so that he won't be that surprised to be dead. And he met Simone just six months after that, following his failed attempt at a turnaround.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Noneofyourbusiness

[whiporee]

I think Chidi and Eleanor have crazy chemistry, so I've never had a problem with them being together or seeming like a good match. from the first episode -- even when she was making him crazy -- the two of them clicked. In terms of character, he was nice without wanting something and she was willing to listen to him and let him teach, something he obviously loves to do. They liked each other and needed each other almost from the beginning, and it's not hard at all to see them matched up in such a series-crucial way. Eleanor's got great relationships with all of Team Cockroach, but I've always felt the electricity between Eleanor and Chidi/Kristen and William was nearly tangible and unforced. So them ending up together makes perfect sense to me both a a plot device and in the actuality of watching it onscreen. 

[Sharna Pax]

12 hours ago, whiporee said:

we've not seen Eleanor and Chidi fall in love multiple times

I'm not convinced we've even seen them fall in love once. Does anyone else find it a little shady that their falling in love has always hinged on Eleanor being shown the Cannonball Run timeline, and yet we never actually saw that timeline happen? It didn't bother me at first, but the more they push the idea of Eleanor and Chidi's big epic romance, the weirder I find it.

[lucindabelle]

Chidi  has his memories wiped but how does that affect what happened? If he died six months before meeting simone then it never happened at all right? And doesn’t that affect her??

 

i heart this show so much.

when does it return?

Edited January 26, 2019 by lucindabelle

[Zuleikha]

With them back at the same level of knowledge, they may connect. The show went heavy handed on the Eleanor and Chidi love story that they ended up underplaying how much of a threat Simone is to Eleanor.

Or curveball... Simone and Eleanor become the potential alternate couple finally paying off Eleanor's canon bisexuality and all the Eleanor/Simone interactions. Or, they end up a threesome. (unlikely but who knows)

It does raise an important question about how the afterlife could really handle multiple deep love. Exes who broke up in life is one thing, but what about widows/widowers?

[Guest]

On 1/24/2019 at 8:40 PM, Dots And Stripes said:

Good point! I guess one huge difference is Chidi can't lie and Eleanor is a world class liar. But yeah, he's kind of setting her up for some torture. I'm a little surprised they didn't spell out some of the danger here: Chidi will genuinely like Simone. He won't know that he had chosen Eleanor and in fact a big reason why he left Simone was that he knew more than she did about the afterlife. With them back at the same level of knowledge, they may connect. The show went heavy handed on the Eleanor and Chidi love story that they ended up underplaying how much of a threat Simone is to Eleanor.

I’m actually really curious to see how this plays out. Chidi and Simone had a clear connection but current Eleanor really is Chidi’s dream girl. She understands and loves philosophy almost as much as he does and she pushes him to be more decisive. Plus Chidi and Simone’s relationship never would have happened without Eleanor giving him a push. 

[j5cochran]

13 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I found it very hard to believe that Michael would be terrified to the point of paralysis.

Throughout the season, he's been doing unbelievably risky things with the fate of all humanity at stake, with minimum trepidation. He's willing to defy the judge to her face, break into different dimensions, attempt all kinds ridiculous schemes where he lies to some of the most important being in existence - no problem.

But introducing himself to the four new humans is too much for him? It all feels very convenient for writers who are trying to put Eleanor front and center.

Is the terrified Michael of this episode the "real" Michael?  Or did Shawn manage to get the "Vicki in a Michael suit" into the neighborhood? That mood change seemed so over the top to me, that I wondered if it was our Michael.

[bros402]

Next season can we have Tahani and Eleanor in a relationship? The sparks have been flying since the start

[Notwisconsin]

4 hours ago, bros402 said:

Next season can we have Tahani and Eleanor in a relationship? The sparks have been flying since the start

No.

[marinw]

Season Finale? Noooooooo…

Simone dismissed her new afterlife as weird neurochemical stuff the brain does at the last moment of life. Perhaps the final episode of the show will reveal everything to be Elenor’s Near Death Experience, Which would be a huge cop-out, but would explain a lot.

[Kate47]

8 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

 

Or curveball... Simone and Eleanor become the potential alternate couple finally paying off Eleanor's canon bisexuality and all the Eleanor/Simone interactions. Or, they end up a threesome. (unlikely but who knows)

 

I would love it if this happened. Simone is actually a really great character and I trust that this show won't take it into tired love triangle territory without throwing in some curves. I trust that, however it does work out, it will be emotional and heartfelt and true to the character beats that have developed thus far.

I also think the mindwiping is a well they've gone to a little too often, but I sat through 9 seasons of Supernatural and like 6 seasons of the Vampire Diaries, so I don't really have much room to criticize.