20/20

[pdlinda]

9 minutes ago, emma675 said:

Who put them in terrible homes in crime ridden neighborhoods? Who will punch Vanessa Espinoza in the face first? When the eldest Turpin son said she wouldn't even help him get a bike and told him to just take the bus, knowing full well he probably didn't know how to navigate public transportation, I wanted to hop on a plane and hunt her down. Heartless bitch.

For the first time in YEARS I deleted my recording of 20/20 because I didn't have the stomach to watch what I believed would be atrocious child abuse!  After your post, I'm so glad I avoided seeing such a tragedy!

[eel21788]

11 hours ago, Cozytea said:

I'm glad Jordan had those pictures and the police officer was patient with her. She could have easily just been mistook for a drugged out young woman.

When he asked her if she was on any medication and she didn't know what medication was, it clicked for him that she wasn't making thing up.

[SunnyBeBe]

I will be conducting a serious inquiry on the adult children’s welfare on Monday.  I will not let this go!  I have no idea what in the hell has gone on there, but I’ll find out! I’m sure the story on 20/20 has unleashed a ship load storm on them, as it should be.  Heads should roll on that cluster. 

Edited November 21, 2021 by SunnyBeBe

[Frisky Wig]

6 hours ago, emma675 said:

The Turpin kids are amazing and I'm infuriated that the system has failed them all over again. I hope this show helps them get the help they need and uncovers everyone in the government who failed them. The fact that their parents starved them for years and some of them still have trouble paying for food just broke my heart.

Where is all of that money? Why can't they get access to it? Who put them in terrible homes in crime ridden neighborhoods? Who will punch Vanessa Espinoza in the face first? When the eldest Turpin son said she wouldn't even help him get a bike and told him to just take the bus, knowing full well he probably didn't know how to navigate public transportation, I wanted to hop on a plane and hunt her down. Heartless bitch.

Exactly. Someone else mentioned that one of the kids asked information on how to do something and was told to Google it. I had no words. So flippant and mean. 
 

These kids are truly incredible. They’re so smart especially considering their deplorable upbringing. Thinking to take pictures of their siblings in chains is just one example. 

[Chaos Theory]

There needs to be a donation site that isn’t riddled with government oversight and conservatorship abuse.  Unlike Britney Spears I can see how it might have been initially necessary or at least having some sort of advocate but putting someone in charge who (in my opinion) was only interested in doing it  for their own public image was a terrible mistake.    The elder Turpins need help with the basics like finding safe places to live,  learning how to buy food,  getting educated,  making simple purchases,   Heck learning how to open a bank account and fill out a job application.   They don’t need someone to hoard money for some dumb government double talk reason.     There is probably thousands of dollars in that account that no one can touch because the buy a bike form is three pages long.  

Jordan and Jennifer especially deserve everything in the world.  I actually do hope they are at least contacted by Justin Beeber or  Kelly Clarkson.  

Edited November 21, 2021 by Chaos Theory

[SunnyBeBe]

The older children may have not understood what was best for them.  Maybe, they were not supervised, due to their age…..I don’t know…..but it sounds like it was the fault of those in charge.  The DA and other county rep who was crying  were appalled and didn’t mince words. Glad there was a whistleblower.  

[TVbitch]

I don't know what is more galling, what these kids went through, or that they were victimized again by the agencies charged to look after them. Everybody wants to hold a press conference or send a teddy bear, but nobody really ensured they were being cared for. It even took ABC News four years to report on the dire treatment of them. And if not for ABC, it would probably never have been exposed. 

 

[SunnyBeBe]

58 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

I don't know what is more galling, what these kids went through, or that they were victimized again by the agencies charged to look after them. Everybody wants to hold a press conference or send a teddy bear, but nobody really ensured they were being cared for. It even took ABC News four years to report on the dire treatment of them. And if not for ABC, it would probably never have been exposed. 

 

Yes, it’s appalling.  And those people in charge went to bed every night knowing things were not being done properly.  There are no words.  Some heads really do need to roll.  It seems the part time realty agent was let go.  Hopefully, the ABC piece will get some real action and cause some to address accountability.  

Edited November 21, 2021 by SunnyBeBe

[iwantcookies]

And that’s why I don’t donate to go fund me. I do not know where the money goes!

[emma675]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Some heads really do need to roll.  It seems the part time realty agent was let go.  

I hope she was fired and she didn't just quit or was laid off. She needs to lose her pension, benefits, and everything else. Everyone involved with keeping help from the Turpin kids made me mad (even the crying lady and the DA didn't get much sympathy from me, freaking do something), but Vanessa Espinoza infuriated me. I'm not a violent person but I would find it hard not to go after her if I ever came across her in person. I hope her name is infamous after all of this.

[SunnyBeBe]

Just now, emma675 said:

I hope she was fired and she didn't just quit or was laid off. She needs to lose her pension, benefits, and everything else. Everyone involved with keeping help from the Turpin kids made me mad (even the crying lady and the DA didn't get much sympathy from me, freaking do something), but Vanessa Espinoza infuriated me. I'm not a violent person but I would find it hard not to go after her if I ever came across her in person. I hope her name is infamous after all of this.

She may suffer with sales if she’s still in real estate.  

[Mittengirl]

I have no experience dealing with “the system” in general or with California’s specifically, but maybe someone can explain something to me.  If the adult “kids” are competent, why can’t they have reasonable access to the funds donated to them?  Perhaps all of them being able to discuss/have input in the money distribution, like you can buy a car, but not a new Mustang Convertible.  You can rent an apartment in a decent neighborhood, but not an oceanfront house in Malibu.   And if the “kids” are not competent to make those decisions, because of their isolation, not mental capacity, why the hell aren’t the still being supported, rather than thrown to the wolves?  It seems those in the system want it both ways - to not have to care for/support them, but also not to give them the means to help themselves.

Did the sisters mention if there has been any contact, in person or not, with extended family members? 
 

I hope the older kids are making friends with people who are trustworthy and caring.  Maybe the DA(?) and the investigator, who both seemed to really care that things went well for the kids, can make contact to help get them pointed in the right directions.  Also Jaycee Dugard would seem a good person to offer help.  While their situations were different, the isolation was similar.  
 

With all the resources and connections Diane Sawyer and ABC have at their disposal, hopefully the Turpin kids lives are now headed in the right direction - with the ultimate goal of complete independence, of course.

[sugarbaker design]

19 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

She may suffer with sales if she’s still in real estate.  

May suffer?  She will definitely suffer after this edition of 20/20.  I hope it's deep and long-term.  If anyone deserves to be cancelled, it's this woman.

[Chaos Theory]

I looked it up and I don't want to  cross post or break any rules so I will just mention that The JAYC Foundation looks legit. and was started by Jaycee Dugard who herself was well....you know.   So I tend to put more faith in her then a government fund.  But I don't want anyone to take my word for it and get mad at me if I am wrong.  Do your own research but to me it looks real.

[SunnyBeBe]

I had an idea on the investigation.  Hopefully, my inquiry will help.  It’s with the SIT…AG’s office.  

[AryasMum]

The website, Celebitchy, has written an article calling the interview of the Turpin sisters, “exploitative”, and describes Diane Sawyer’s interview style as, “cold and clinical”, with Diane being uncaring of the sisters’ mental health. 

I . . . didn’t see that. 

[Mittengirl]

Exploitative?  No.  I didn’t see Diane press for details or information that was lurid or graphic; in fact I thought there were very few details that weren’t already known.  She didn’t press the women when they seemed upset.

Cold & clinical?  No - professional.  This was not a celebrity puff piece, it was a news interview.  It shouldn’t have looked like Diane interviewing her pals, or Auntie Diane interviewing children.  She came off as a caring, concerned professional journalist.

In fact, there are some questions I would have liked to have been asked.  Are they in touch with any extended family?  How are their relationships with the other siblings?  Have they been able to maintain contact with the younger kids?  How many are working or in school?  Any plans for a book?  (That was actually my first though - that they had a book coming out soon.). But, they said at the beginning that the 2 women were telling their stories, their siblings could/would tell their own if/when they want to, and Diane seemed to respect that.

[SunnyBeBe]

I watched a show…..I think it was on ID discovery or Oxygen about a year or so ago, that featured a family member of the Turpins.  I recall the family member described the sparse communication with the family, curiosity about the children’s conditions, isolation, etc.  She defended her failure to be more proactive and to let things go on for years.   After all I’ve seen since then…..I don’t care to hear anything more from family members who knew the children existed and ignored huge red flags.  

[CrystalBlue]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I watched a show…..I think it was on ID discovery or Oxygen about a year or so ago, that featured a family member of the Turpins.  I recall the family member described the sparse communication with the family, curiosity about the children’s conditions, isolation, etc.  She defended her failure to be more proactive and to let things go on for years.   After all I’ve seen since then…..I don’t care to hear anything more from family members who knew the children existed and ignored huge red flags.  

This is correct; I saw that show too.  I believe it was Louise Turpin's sister.  Louise had left home at a young age long ago, married David when she was 20 and then had 13 children and over the years communications were long distance and few and far between.  Very little family involvement, which is just the way the Turpins liked it.

I live in SoCal and have lived and worked in Riverside County where Perris is so this case was of special interest to me.  I followed it from the beginning and didn't wait long to watch this 20/20.  My God, what a huge failure on the part of the County resources who were supposed to be watching out for these 13 siblings.  An unprecedented case like this should have extra fail-safe measures of helping and providing resources for every one of the children, adult or minor, not less!

My hope is that this expose has gotten the much-needed light shining and the children get all the help they need.  I've often wondered what's happened to them and thought no news was with respect to their privacy.

I hope those that let the Turpin kids down are prosecuted or loose their jobs and that the monster parents never get out of prison.

[SunnyBeBe]

I think you’re right about that special.  

[borealis]

The show was Evil Lives Here, S6E8, "My Twisted Sister", on ID Channel, Louise Turpin's sister Elizabeth Flores. She lived with them in the summer of '96, when she was 20. Full ep at the link. Also an article at the ID site.

[ChiCricket]

On 11/22/2021 at 10:46 AM, sugarbaker design said:

May suffer?  She will definitely suffer after this edition of 20/20.  I hope it's deep and long-term.  If anyone deserves to be cancelled, it's this woman.

Oh, plenty of people on Twitter are pissed at her, and have already gotten all her info.

 

[IndianPaintbrush]

On 11/22/2021 at 3:23 PM, AryasMum said:

The website, Celebitchy, has written an article calling the interview of the Turpin sisters, “exploitative”, and describes Diane Sawyer’s interview style as, “cold and clinical”, with Diane being uncaring of the sisters’ mental health. 

I . . . didn’t see that. 

Me neither. It was so cute when the the sisters were pretending to be journalists. They clearly liked Diane and felt comfortable with her.

I'm still trying to process the fact that Jennifer Turpin is 33, because she sure doesn't look it.

Thanks goodness Jordan got a cop who actually cared, because she could have just as easily gotten someone who didn't.

[pasdetrois]

The last thing this family needs is to be exploited by ABC and Diane Sawyer.

[A.Ham]

I remember seeing this on the news and wondering how this could go on for so long. Especially if Jennifer was taunted at school due to hygiene issues--hygiene problems in children are an indication (at best) of neglect, and teachers are mandated reporters. Jennifer went all the way up to third grade and no one noticed this, or if they did, they did nothing about it. I mean, what in the fresh hell.

But then to see the total mismanagement and secrecy regarding the current status of the family, the fact that they have had to couch surf, struggle to get food, etc... Aw, hells no. Frosts my bum, as a coworker of mine used to say. There is supposed to be a whole system of support with people who care and can actually guide them. There needs to be accountability for all involved, and not this cloud of secrecy. They're trying to hide behind "confidentiality" but the victims are suffering in the meantime. SMH. 
 

Edited for spelling 

Edited November 30, 2021 by A.Ham

[Awesome]

Aww, poor widdle Vanessa Espinoza! Life is so hard for her! People think she's a horrible person!

https://www.facebook.com/soldbyvanessaanderic

Saw only two of her posts, but they come across as "don't judge me, I did not steal money". I have no idea whether or not she did, but at the very least she failed in her responsibilities to help these kids. It sounds to me like she treated them in a callous way. "Google it"? Does she have any clue about adverse childhood experiences or trauma informed care? A person in her (previous) position should. She makes sure to point out she was not fired from that job. Well, she should have been, in my opinion.

[ChelleGame]

Lord that was hard to watch.  I burst into tears when Jordan first started talking. Her PTSD was just visible on her entire body.  Bless those two young ladies. Before the failure of the court was revealed I said to my son I hope someone is protecting them. They're all so childlike it would be easy to take advantage. And then...

[Vivigirl10]

What struck me so deeply is that after all Jordan and Jennifer have been through, the horrible abuse and neglect, the hateful and life threatening environment that they were raised in.....they still appear to be extremely kind, loving, caring and optimistic individuals.  From what well does that spring?  I am in awe.  Jordan comforted her sister so genuinely when she was upset talking.  They were distraught over the chaining up of their little sisters.  They made a plan to escape so that they all could survive.  How do you come out of that past with such kindness in your heart when no one ever modeled it for you?  I can't stop thinking about them.

I cannot believe that instead of vetting foster parents for the little ones under a gigantic microscope, they were - whoops! - placed in just a new and different abusive environment!!  You have got to be kidding me.  I don't understand how that can even happen.

It seems to me there would be many families/individuals willing to help the adults, as well.  Was there no word put out in the community of this need?  It just doesn't make sense.  

[ChelleGame]

29 minutes ago, Kiki620 said:

What struck me so deeply is that after all Jordan and Jennifer have been through, the horrible abuse and neglect, the hateful and life threatening environment that they were raised in.....they still appear to be extremely kind, loving, caring and optimistic individuals.  From what well does that spring?  I am in awe.  Jordan comforted her sister so genuinely when she was upset talking.  They were distraught over the chaining up of their little sisters.  They made a plan to escape so that they all could survive.  How do you come out of that past with such kindness in your heart when no one ever modeled it for you?  I can't stop thinking about them.

I cannot believe that instead of vetting foster parents for the little ones under a gigantic microscope, they were - whoops! - placed in just a new and different abusive environment!!  You have got to be kidding me.  I don't understand how that can even happen.

It seems to me there would be many families/individuals willing to help the adults, as well.  Was there no word put out in the community of this need?  It just doesn't make sense.  

I can't stop thinking about them either. The way Jordan's face collapsed in empathy when Jennifer got upset. It just took my breath away. I wanted to reach through my TV and bring them home.

I gave money to the Duggard Foundation on their behalf. I just felt helpless. I've followed the Duggard story since she rescued. I'm from NoCal and I remember when she was abducted. And she was found not too far from my brother's house. That case just haunted me.

Now this one will too.

[A.Ham]

57 minutes ago, Kiki620 said:

What struck me so deeply is that after all Jordan and Jennifer have been through, the horrible abuse and neglect, the hateful and life threatening environment that they were raised in.....they still appear to be extremely kind, loving, caring and optimistic individuals.  From what well does that spring?  I am in awe.  Jordan comforted her sister so genuinely when she was upset talking.  They were distraught over the chaining up of their little sisters.  They made a plan to escape so that they all could survive.  How do you come out of that past with such kindness in your heart when no one ever modeled it for you?

I am also in awe. They demonstrated such strength and courage, in spite of the hell they went through almost their entire lives. Their level of resiliency and ability to still smile to the world is something to be admired. I like that Jennifer said she wants the Turpin name to mean strength. They achieved that with me. I know a few macho men who could only wish they had the emotional courage these young women have.  

[eel21788]

On 11/20/2021 at 9:58 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

I will be conducting a serious inquiry on the adult children’s welfare on Monday.  I will not let this go!  I have no idea what in the hell has gone on there, but I’ll find out! I’m sure the story on 20/20 has unleashed a ship load storm on them, as it should be.  Heads should roll on that cluster. 

I think the general rule of thumb should be: If a family decides to give all its children names that start with a J, they should be automatically turned over to social services by the third child.

[Melina22]

1 minute ago, eel21788 said:

I think the general rule of thumb should be: If a family decides to give all its children names that start with a J, they should be automatically turned over to social services by the third child.

What if they all start with K? 

[eel21788]

1 minute ago, Melina22 said:

What if they all start with K? 

It would be suspicious but not as incriminating as all Js.

[Melina22]

The Deadly Take. I didn't think the episode about the Rust shooting would be interesting, but it really was. What a mystery. 

Even though sabotage seems like a possibility, I agree that it was probably a combination of several mistakes. A perfect storm, as one man says.

I don't even know how many times I've thought about Jeff Goldblum's speech in Jurassic Park about chaos theory, where a disaster is caused, not by one mistake, but by multiple unrelated things going wrong at the same time. It seems like the Rust shooting could be one of those disasters. I hope one day we find out for sure. 

As for Sarah Jones death on the train tracks, that was an incredibly hard video to watch, knowing it wasn't a reenactment. Chilling. 

[Sweet-tea]

They could’ve easily just done an hour on Rust. They didn’t have enough material so they added the part about the Midnight Rider film. That was tragic. The director certainly didn’t help himself in the interview footage and on the stand. 

I find it hard to believe the gun went off by itself. Still a lot of unknowns but it didn’t seem like a safe set. The fact that the whole camera crew walked off the set at one point doesn’t bode well. 

[CrystalBlue]

42 minutes ago, Sweet-tea said:

They could’ve easily just done an hour on Rust. They didn’t have enough material so they added the part about the Midnight Rider film. That was tragic. The director certainly didn’t help himself in the interview footage and on the stand. 

I find it hard to believe the gun went off by itself. Still a lot of unknowns but it didn’t seem like a safe set. The fact that the whole camera crew walked off the set at one point doesn’t bode well. 

It wasn't a safe set.  They should have named the film Rush instead of Rust.  Too much pressure to get everything done is too short a time.  One person handling both jobs of armorer and prop manager in a movie with lots of both.  Downplaying the camera crew walk off and trying to paint the picture of being one big happy family doesn't work for me.

They should have had separate episodes of Rust and Midnight Rider movies.

[Melina22]

I'm not a conspiracy theorist WHATSOEVER but I still wonder if there's any chance it was sabotage. I know it probably wasn't, but as any of us here know, stranger things have happened. People do crazy things for the oddest motives. 

[CrystalBlue]

41 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

I'm not a conspiracy theorist WHATSOEVER but I still wonder if there's any chance it was sabotage. I know it probably wasn't, but as any of us here know, stranger things have happened. People do crazy things for the oddest motives. 

How did seven real bullets make their way into a box of 50 blanks?  That is the question.

[BusyOctober]

The shooting on Rust was a different kind of unsafe set, so other than two tragic ‘accidental’ deaths on movie sets, I’m not sure these two incidents should have been presented as similar stories.

 In the case of Midnight Rider, the director was completely to blame for his decision to use an active train trestle without permission, and without the necessary safety training or required personnel on set.  He was a self admitted wild card/loose cannon.  He liked to brag about “stealing the shot” often in his career. He was a narcissist who thought getting his movie made the way he want to was the ONLY a thing that mattered.(to stroke his own ego). 

On the set of Rust, there were some questionable (or completely absent) safety procedures.  While Alec Baldwin as Producer may ultimately be held accountable for the death, I don’t think he behaved with the same willful disregard for anyone’s safety.  I do think there were some unsafe practices happening. And combined with lack of experience or knowledge on the part of the armorer and prop department, they lead to Halyna’s death.

How live rounds made it on the Rust set is the issue to be solved.  On the set of Midnight Rider, there was no mystery in cause of death. Bad, thoughtless, cavalier, intentional decisions are what killed Sarah.

[CrystalBlue]

Re:  The Deadly Take -- Rust movie portion

I wonder when Alec's next PR move, crybaby interview will be.  Shit just got real in New Mexico.  Search Warrant Issued for Alec Baldwin's Phone.

[chediavolo]

I’m no Alec Baldwin fan, at least of his real life self, but trying to say he is responsible for this is sickening. It was not his responsibility.  If I were an actor, I’d be fired because I’d be too afraid of guns.  But these people  professionals & they rely on others knowing their job. Something fishy is going on with having live bullets on the set. Etc. 

[Annber03]

"I Now Pronounce You Dead" - my god, this James guy was a real idiot, wasn't he? I guess after getting by with seeing two different women for seven years, you'd start to get pretty cocky that you can continue to get away with that balancing act, but...surely he had to at least briefly wonder what would happen if his two worlds ever did collide at some point? 

Also, yeah, killing someone in a muddy rural area, where it's so easy to leave evidence like tire tracks and other markings of that sort, is probably not the wisest move if you're hoping to get away with your crime. Thank goodness for that Glen stumbling upon the scene when he did. How eerie that he found himself in the same area a couple times that night as he did.

And then James having that freaking photo album up in his attic with all the pictures of him and Molly together. REALLY???? I mean...that's just beyond brazen, that is. It is a bit odd that James' wife Melanie was able to remain blissfully ignorant to what he was really doing for so long (surely it'd be only a matter of time before she stumbled upon that photo album, for instance, murder or no murder), but I can sympathize with her complete shock and confusion over all of this coming out as it did. Bad enough to learn that a woman's been murdered and your husband is the prime suspect and he'd been seeing this other woman for seven years and he'd told said woman that you were dead at any time, of course, but to get all of that information in the middle of the freaking night, and right after you've just been awakened besides...yikes. 

I also feel really bad for Emma. The shirt she'd made being found at the crime scene is just an extra level of appalling. As is the fact that James had actually introduced her to Molly at one point. And yet he still seriously thought he was going to try and get away with all of this? For someone who supposedly cared so much about trying to keep his two lives separate, he sure took a lot of really stupid risks. 

I'm also surprised that the people who were helping Molly and James get their marriage license didn't get a notice that he was still married. I would've thought that would've come up when the recorder was looking up their information online? Unless there's other ways that info comes across? I dunno, I've never been married, so... I did like that even the guy helping Molly get her license got emotional over her murder. I can only begin to imagine how jarring that would be, to see someone you'd just been talking to a couple days before suddenly winding up on the evening news as a victim of a violent crime. 

And speaking of James' marriage history, it's weird that they couldn't find any info on his first three wives. I'd be really curious to learn more about that part of his past, and what became of those women, what their lives had been like with him and so on. 

Such a sad story. I see stories like this, I look at guys like James, and I keep wondering what the hell it is about them that they're able to snag so many women and dupe and manipulate them so easily as they do. What is this weird power they seem to have over these women? 

And this story's even more frustrating because all James had to do was call off the wedding. He wasn't already married to her, so it's not like he was going to be out a bunch of assets or other finances or anything. Hell, he wouldn't even really be out any costs for planning the wedding, since it seems Molly was largely taking care of that part of things. He just had to say, "I can't marry you" and that's that, they would've been done and he wouldn't have to keep doing his juggling act anymore. 

But no. He chose this route instead. He took her life and destroyed the lives of so many others in the process. And for what? Just so senseless. 

[Melina22]

I have to agree with every single thing you say. What a mystifying case, with such an uncharismatic villain. No wonder the wife was so quick to divorce him. 

3 hours ago, Annber03 said:

And speaking of James' marriage history, it's weird that they couldn't find any info on his first three wives

Why did they think he'd had 3 other wives? Could it have been another lie made up by James to make himself seem...exciting and mysterious? How hard could it be to track 3 wives if they were real? 

[Annber03]

34 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

Why did they think he'd had 3 other wives? Could it have been another lie made up by James to make himself seem...exciting and mysterious? How hard could it be to track 3 wives if they were real? 

My mom was wondering about that, too. Especially given he was married to Melanie for 23 years. I'm presuming, if those three wives did exist, those marriages must've been very brief, so brief that they barely made any kind of blip, which could explain why they couldn't really find any information on the women. Course, if that were the case, that has me wondering why he would've stayed with Melanie for so long, but....*Shrugs* I was wondering at one point if we'd learn that at least one of those earlier wives were actually dead for real, and James just said the wrong wife was dead for whatever reason. Or if he was married to one of those wives while married to Melanie - he was about ready to commit bigamy here, after all. 

But yeah, the show kept making it seem like these wives really had existed, but given all his other lies, I certainly wouldn't put it past him to make up something like that. That'd be a really weird thing to lie about, mind, but this was a really weird case in general, so....

Yeah. I dunno. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Annber03

[arejay]

In seven years, she never saw where he lived? Come on…

[BusyOctober]

I Now Pronounce You Dead - I  agree with all that’s been said so far.  I don’t get how this ruse went on for so long.
In SEVEN YEARS of dating and being engaged:

- Molly never went to James’ house or apartment?  She didn’t think it was odd she never saw where he lived? Unless I zoned out and missed the part where James had a 2nd address for his fake life, how do you know someone that long and never see where they live?

- When Molly met James daughter, he introduced her as a ‘friend’ who could make a costume.  Didn’t Molly ever let it slip that she and James were dating?  Did James tell Molly not to mention their relationship?

- Didn’t Molly and James go on vacation together? How did he explain long absences from home? Fishing trips with his buddies? James doesn’t seem like the kind of guy who had buddies.

- If a friend or fiancé tells me his ex died, I would ask for funeral info so I could send condolences, especially if I had met my future stepdaughter.  I would look up obituaries and see what arrangements were planned.  I guess Molly didn’t do any casual Googling?  Neither did her family?  They were all kind of sketchy about James, so why didn’t any of them do a little investigation? Does no one in the “Show Me State” watch 20/20 or Dateline or 48 Hours or Snapped or anything on the ID Channel???

[answerphone]

Her brother didn’t know his sister’s fiancé’s last name? Over 7 years, the wife wasn’t suspicious?
They’re a bit off, but it’s so sad for the families of those involved. 

[TVbitch]

On top of the baffling stuff already pointed out, just very basically, did he actually think he could just shoot her dead, the day before the wedding, pretty close to home, with no alibi, while on the fucking phone with her ..and not be a suspect?!?! What a tool. 

[sainte-chapelle]

Maybe I missed something but wasn’t one of the daughters supposed to be in the wedding?  Weren’t they talking about hair and makeup ? Now she claims that she knew nothing of the affair? I feel like the wife knew of the affair but just shut her eyes and looked the other way. 
i feel like poor Molly likely had self esteem issues and deep down knew he was lying to her. Her text messages and the way she clung to him in the office gave me that impression. She also knowingly dated a married man for many years, not judging but she put up with being the mistress for many years. This guy didn’t exactly do a great job of covering his tracks. 
he picked on vulnerable women that would put him on a pedestal. That is what vile men like him do. When she finally demanded a commitment he killed her. I still don’t understand why he didn’t just break up with her. Did she have something on him? 
i think there is more to the story that neither family is disclosing.

Edited January 9, 2022 by sainte-chapelle

[Annber03]

19 minutes ago, sainte-chapelle said:

i feel like poor Molly likely had self esteem issues and deep down knew he was lying to her. Her text messages and the way she clung to him in the office gave me that impression.  
he picked on vulnerable women that would put him on a pedestal. That is what vile men like him do. 

Exactly. They said something about Molly having been married once before, but it didn't last very long. I can definitely see where that would knock her for a loop, and provide an opportunity for a creep like this guy to swoop in. The age difference further proves this - he wanted to prove to himself he was still some hot stud who could get a younger woman that he could have his fun with without any further commitment, and whom he could control and manipulate. 

Thing is, though, even Molly sensed right before the wedding that he wasn't as into this as she was, so while it obviously would've hurt her if he had called it off, I also think she would've agreed to do so if he'd suggested it. She didn't seem the sort who would've forced him to do something he didn't want to do.