20/20 - General Discussion

[UsernameFatigue]

5 hours ago, Ellee said:

The new husband of the niece better run like he’s never ran before.   Or did he run already?  I can’t remember her name but she is a mini-me of Lori. 
 

Question.  Do they really have to prove who killed who?  Aren’t you just as guilty if you are involved?   There can be no question that they were involved.  
 

Another one.  Tammy Daybell was young.  Aren’t the authorities required to do an autopsy since there was no long-standing illness?

Sorry... I’ll have a million posts today.  Those poor babies.  Tammy,  Charles.  Mr Ryan was probably murdered by Lori/Alex too.   
 

I am sure it likely varies from state to state, but I don't understand why an autopsy isn't required by law when someone dies at home and isn't under a doctor's care for a serious life threatening illness. I am not sure about the rest of Canada, but I know that the province where I live, B.C., it is required. 

I wasn't going to watch this episode, but it did have a few more details that I don't remember from before. Did they show Lori being on Wheel of Fortune before? I could have done without a rehash of the interview of the friend with the vocal fry. 

I did enjoy the poetic justice of J.J.'s grandparents possibly being able to afford the $20,000 reward for info leading to the whereabouts of J.J. because Charles changed his life insurance beneficiary to them. It appears as reported in the show that things did heat up in the case and it brought national attention after they went to the media. 

Oh, and murderer Alex dying of natural causes? Karma at its best. 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by UsernameFatigue

[Annber03]

7 hours ago, Melina22 said:

Add to that the laughing with the police, and throwing a pool party that night in the murder house,

I still can't believe that was even allowed to happen.  That entire area should've been closed off to the public at large and nobody should've been allowed in. 

[Melina22]

So did anyone else see the Murder Show skit on SNL last night? It was us! 😁😁😁😁

 

 

 

 

[Ellee]

26 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

So did anyone else see the Murder Show skit on SNL last night? It was us! 😁😁😁😁

 

 

 

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/nbcsnl/status/1365894914907779073

I did now. 😁  See if this works

[CrystalBlue]

Too funny!  This Is Us (not the real This Is Us TV show)!!  They did a really good job with that.

[Court]

There was little bit of new information in the Vallow/Daybell case. However, Lori's family is delusional about her and her murdering brother.

Last time, I saw the niece interviewed, her new husband was right there insisting Lori did nothing. I wonder if he has changed his mind. (Granted, I haven't finished watching. )

On a shallow note, Lori's sister looks nothing like her. Mom is painful to look at. 

[Ellee]

Heather Elvis.  
 

I watched this this morning and tried to look it up.   The combination of a cheating husband and an angry wife appears to have murdered her.  I don’t remember reading anything when this happened.  Sooner or later Sidney will turn on Tammy or the other way around.

Hope they find Heather.

 

[Melina22]

This one was new to me too. What a creepy story. I have so many questions. I feel like there was so much left out about both families. 

The opening annoyed me. All the innocent saintly victim tropes, right down to "She lit up a room!" Then they proceeded to describe someone who to be honest sounded sort of awful. Not as awful as Tammy and Sidney, obviously, who were heinous, but still awful. 

That said, having a child disappear and never be found has to be one of life's worst nightmares, even worse than knowing your child died. I hope someone eventually talks and ends their suffering. 

I'm confused as to how they supposedly killed her in the one minute window. I have to assume one of them drove up, shot her, and threw her in the truck. Weirdly, that's  how I hope it happened, because that way she'd barely have time to react or be scared before it was over. But then where did they put her. And the cousin who saw a photo? That doesn't make sense. 

Too many questions... 

 

[MsJamieDornan]

1 hour ago, Ellee said:

Heather Elvis.  

Was I dreaming that it was on Dateline a few nights ago also ??

 

eta: I just checked, it was on March 4th

Edited March 6, 2021 by MsJamieDornan

[Crankybroad]

I’m watching the Heather Elvis episode, and I’m distracted by all the super whitened teeth everyone has. Did everyone get a deal on whitening before they were interviewed? Did a dentist sponsor this episode?

[MsJamieDornan]

Quote

I’m watching the Heather Elvis episode, and I’m distracted by all the super whitened teeth everyone has. Did everyone get a deal on whitening before they were interviewed? Did a dentist sponsor this episode?

I know !!!!  The lady prosecutor had me wondering if she got snap on veneers just for her interview ?

[Ellee]

Angie Dodge Murder. 
 

God bless her mom.   To feel that there was more to what took place, work for the right answers, help the innocent man get released from jail and do what it takes to keep the investigators together to get the murderer.  
 

[LakeGal]

I believe they showed this case on The Genetic Detective.  But I still enjoyed watching this version.

[CrazyInAlabama]

This case has been on Genetic Detective, Dateline,  Forensic Files, and  48 Hours.    The way the case was researched, and then the DNA collection was amazing.    I really wondered what went wrong with the first group of suspects, and then to have the researcher find out the right suspect was fascinating to me.       I'm so glad Chris Tapp was finally exonerated.   However, I wonder if he'll ever get any compensation?   Idaho doesn't have a law about compensation for wrongly convicted people.     I read he's suing the police department, and some former officers, but I'm wondering if that was ever decided?    

[Whimsy]

4 hours ago, Ellee said:

Angie Dodge Murder. 
 

God bless her mom.   To feel that there was more to what took place, work for the right answers, help the innocent man get released from jail and do what it takes to keep the investigators together to get the murderer.  
 

I wish more victim's families were like this.  I've watched so many of these shows and when detectives/reporters/whoever give hard PROOF to the family that the person who they suspect and/or was convicted of the crime ISN'T the person who did it and the families are like "nope.  I know in my heart they did it".  I just want to rip my hair out!

[JeezumCrow]

I wasn’t thrilled that this episode was essentially a repurposed episode of Genetic Detective - call it a crossover or something, but don’t show me an hour of intro and then an episode of another show that I watched already. At least when Dateline does a 20/20 story they’re not using the exact same footage. 

Edited March 13, 2021 by JeezumCrow

[iwantcookies]

On 3/6/2021 at 8:43 AM, Melina22 said:

This one was new to me too. What a creepy story. I have so many questions. I feel like there was so much left out about both families. 

The opening annoyed me. All the innocent saintly victim tropes, right down to "She lit up a room!" Then they proceeded to describe someone who to be honest sounded sort of awful. Not as awful as Tammy and Sidney, obviously, who were heinous, but still awful. 

That said, having a child disappear and never be found has to be one of life's worst nightmares, even worse than knowing your child died. I hope someone eventually talks and ends their suffering. 

I'm confused as to how they supposedly killed her in the one minute window. I have to assume one of them drove up, shot her, and threw her in the truck. Weirdly, that's  how I hope it happened, because that way she'd barely have time to react or be scared before it was over. But then where did they put her. And the cousin who saw a photo? That doesn't make sense. 

Too many questions... 

 

I saw this story years ago on True crime daily. 
 

[IntrovertRed]

I always say my family won't know what to say about me if I disappeared, "she was uh, very organized and a clean freak."  I certainly don't light up a room and make friends easily.

I tried to watch the Angie Dodge episode, but the music was too loud and made it hard to hear the interviews. I went online and read the story.  Angie's mom is amazing, you always got to go with your gut. I can't believe that after hearing what the cops did to Tapps to get him to confess, it was determined he wasn't coerced.  And also, did they not interview all of her neighbors?  Dripps was her neighbor at the time, it seems that it would be standard to interview those that lived around Angie.

Regardless, props to Carol Dodge.  It's just sad that it took so long, many others would have given up.

Edited March 18, 2021 by KLJ

[Melina22]

12 minutes ago, KLJ said:

I always say my family won't know what to say about me if I disappeared, "she was uh, very organized and a clean freak."  I certainly don't light up a room and make friends easily

Good point. I should put that in my will. "If I die or disappear under mysterious circumstances, anyone who doesn't say I lit up a room is disinherited. My husband included. (Even if he's found innocent.)" 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Melina22

[MsJamieDornan]

On 3/18/2021 at 10:15 AM, KLJ said:

I always say my family won't know what to say about me if I disappeared, "she was uh, very organized and a clean freak."  I certainly don't light up a room and make friends easily.

Same here, my family would be too honest. "Well, I certainly dont think she did it, but, you never know!"

 

[Tdoc72]

On 3/18/2021 at 11:15 AM, KLJ said:

I always say my family won't know what to say about me if I disappeared, "she was uh, very organized and a clean freak."  I certainly don't light up a room and make friends easily.

I always say I’ll be happy if someone says “she was alright”.  I have never or will never light up a room. 

[iwantcookies]

I will be happy if anyone remembers me at all. 
 

 

[BusyOctober]

I have to say, in my50+ years on the planet, I can not recall ever being in a room that “lit up” when someone walked in.  I remember loud talkers, drunks or show-offs.  I remember very pretty or handsome people.  I remember admiring someone’s hair or clothing.  I remember enjoying the company of others or thinking a person came across as smart or witty or warm or friendly.  But I never saw an entire room full of people with mouths agape in awe, bathed in the aura of some magnificent being when he/she entered.

My friends and family will probably say “She was very organized, and she made damn good chocolate chip cookies.”

[Ellee]

Lol, my family can’t even say that.  😂

Maybe .... she bought very good chocolate chip cookies.  ☺️

[iwantcookies]

I watched the Kelsie episode. Soooo depressing.  Her body never been found. Maybe she IS in a landfill. 

Edited April 4, 2021 by iwantcookies

[Madding crowd]

I watched that too-sad story. I wish women wouldn’t go to meet men in dark parking lots or streets. 

[Ellee]

The Menendez Brothers. 
 

This is one where you want to believe the brothers but don’t. Can’t. Won’t.  The body language, the looks between them — even now their stories just don’t seem true.  Do I think they’d take it back and not kill their parents?  Yes but some things you just don’t get a re-do. 
 

The social media stuff is just that.  Doesn’t change what happened.  Then or now. 

[IntrovertRed]

11 hours ago, Ellee said:

The Menendez Brothers. 
 

This is one where you want to believe the brothers but don’t. Can’t. Won’t.  The body language, the looks between them — even now their stories just don’t seem true.  Do I think they’d take it back and not kill their parents?  Yes but some things you just don’t get a re-do. 
 

The social media stuff is just that.  Doesn’t change what happened.  Then or now. 

Better than I could have said it.

And I couldn't help but laugh when one of the woman from the neighborhood said that it was a typical neighborhood/town, etc while talking about the tennis courts, etc.  Only a rich person would say that.

Now that I'm watching this as an adult, basically a little younger than Kitty, I feel sad for her.  Sounds like her marriage was hell.  Although she did contribute to her kids being spoiled assholes.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I don't believe anything the brothers said about the reasons for the parents' murders.   

If the one brother was so physically abused, wouldn't the attorneys have submitted evidence from doctors documenting the damages? 

 In my view the real reason for the killings was that the older brother was going to get caught about being kicked out of school, and that he'd been stealing the money from his parents to support his lifestyle.    I don't believe what any of the extended family said either.    While the parents were alive, they said nothing, but the second the brothers started claiming abuse, they jumped on the band wagon.     

The parents may not have been good parents, but they didn't deserve to be murdered.   I think the sons didn't want to give up their cushy lifestyle, and the parents were ready to kick them out.   I think they thought no one would accuse them, or convict them, and they were wrong. 

[Guest]

20/20 is gonna mine the Menendez story until the end of time, aren't they? And the angle on this one is "Erik is hot on TikTok?" The fuck. Do I really care about hearing the hot takes of teenagers on something they know nothing about other than Erik was moderately attractive? 

And yeah, those two weren't molested. Crock of fucking shit. Two spoiled sociopaths.

I will never not find Lyle's wig hysterical. And no, I don't believe his father "forced" him to wear it -- I believe he WANTED to wear it because he was a vain piece of shit.

[mamadrama]

With a different defense attorney today milking their abuse story there's a strong chance that they could've gotten a lesser sentence. However, that doesn't mean they SHOULD have a lesser sentence. Their parents may have been horrible people but the boys are still murderers. And, unfortunately, they often came across as so vile that *if* the abuse was real it was always going to be taken with a grain of salt.

Teenagers on Tik Tok...hoo boy. The 90s were 2 decades ago, but it wasn't the dark ages. 

The only thing that really pissed me off about the whole thing is the "they couldn't have been raped because men can't be raped" statement. It's as asinine now as it was then. 

[iwantcookies]

Both brothers are unattractive. Severely unattractive.

They killed their parents because they wanted the money.

By second trial they were broke. They spent $14 million in a couple of years. Crazy! 

Why would attractive women marry killers is my question. Why???

I don’t believe they were molested by their parents. 

Edited April 4, 2021 by iwantcookies

[CrystalBlue]

The TikTok crowd weighs in on a 30 plus-year-old murder?  Riveting.  No one cares what self-absorbed social media whores says about much of anything, let alone something they know nothing about.

Nothing new to see here, just the same old talking heads and voice recordings.

[Black Knight]

I haven't watched 20/20 in forever, but I noticed on Hulu tonight that the most recent episode was the Menendez brothers, which happened when I was in high school, and I just couldn't believe that it was hot again on TikTok. (although in the end the 20/20 episode came across as not really being about TikTok but more an excuse to revisit the murders once again)

My view is the same as the reporter that they had on the show: The brothers were sexually molested, but they were not in fear for their lives when they killed their parents. There just really isn't getting around that each of them at a very young age told a relative of a similar age what their dad was doing. I don't think it was the reason for the murders - the idea that it merely coincides with them about to be cut off financially is just too much - but I do think it was a reason why they were willing to go through with the murders of their own parents for money. The usual parent/child bonds were not present given the father was so abusive and the mother went along. As someone in the episode said, when you have one kid kill their parents, that's a bad seed, but when two siblings kill their parents, that's a bad family.

[Melina22]

1 hour ago, Black Knight said:

The usual parent/child bonds were not present given the father was so abusive and the mother went along

Yes, there was so much rage there, as well as a horrifying lack of empathy. And an enormous desire for money. Whatever went on in that house while the boys were growing up is something only the four of them knew, but it produced some unbelievably damaged children. There was more to their crime than simple greed and entitlement. 

[Diana Berry]

This episode brought back so many memories.  I live near that area.  First Tallahassee years before then Gainesville.  This was before the internet so all we would see in the newspapers and local tv were the pictures of the five students with their names underneath.  They became part of our lives for many, many months.  So very sad and heartbreaking.  It was a very scary time.

[howiveaddict]

4 hours ago, Diana Berry said:

This episode brought back so many memories.  I live near that area.  First Tallahassee years before then Gainesville.  This was before the internet so all we would see in the newspapers and local tv were the pictures of the five students with their names underneath.  They became part of our lives for many, many months.  So very sad and heartbreaking.  It was a very scary time.

I live in Indiana and still remember details about these murders.   Never heard about the defendant’s behavior during the trial though.  

Edited April 10, 2021 by howiveaddict

[tljgator]

7 hours ago, Diana Berry said:

This episode brought back so many memories.  I live near that area.  First Tallahassee years before then Gainesville.  This was before the internet so all we would see in the newspapers and local tv were the pictures of the five students with their names underneath.  They became part of our lives for many, many months.  So very sad and heartbreaking.  It was a very scary time.

It was indeed...I didn't realize this would have "new" footage, etc. until they said on the news the anchor would be appearing. It was well done, and actually more detailed (in unnerving ways) than most of these remembrances are (which likely has a lot to do with the appetite for "murder shows" on Netflix, etc. these days). It's 30 years later now, and I still remember a lot of the precise moments they showed. Like the folks interviewed, I do think of some of those moments every time I drive by the 34th St  wall. *sigh*

[Angeltoes]

I so wanted to reach through the screen and smack Sondra London.  I wonder where she wound up in life.

[eel21788]

On 4/10/2021 at 2:40 AM, Diana Berry said:

This episode brought back so many memories.  I live near that area.  First Tallahassee years before then Gainesville.  This was before the internet so all we would see in the newspapers and local tv were the pictures of the five students with their names underneath.  They became part of our lives for many, many months.  So very sad and heartbreaking.  It was a very scary time.

Also, the murder of Ellen Clancy in Daytona Beach in 1979.

[iwantcookies]

On 4/10/2021 at 6:11 PM, Angeltoes said:

I so wanted to reach through the screen and smack Sondra London.  I wonder where she wound up in life.

https://thecinemaholic.com/where-is-sondra-london-now/
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.oxygen.com/crime-time/gainesville-ripper-danny-rolling-friends-with-informant-dated-journalist-prison%3famp

[eel21788]

On 4/11/2021 at 4:30 PM, eel21788 said:

Also, the murder of Ellen Clancy in Daytona Beach in 1979.

As well as serial killer Gerald Stano.

[Tdoc72]

On 4/3/2021 at 9:47 PM, Giant Misfit said:

 

I will never not find Lyle's wig hysterical. And no, I don't believe his father "forced" him to wear it -- I believe he WANTED to wear it because he was a vain piece of shit.

If he was ‘forced’ then he could’ve taken it off after the murders. 

Also reminds me of a hysterical scene in one of the TV movies, where the wig comes off. 

[IndianPaintbrush]

A doctor could probably spend their entire life studying the Menendez brothers and still not fully understand them. Personally I think both things are true: they were the victims of sexual abuse, and they were also cold-blooded murderers who did it primarily for the insurance money.

[Melina22]

The Perfect Lie... that was really touching. And incredible as usual that someone who appeared so normal could be so evil. 

I was sure it was going to be an Evil Nanny story but I found Rebecca incredibly sympathetic and it was awful watching her lovely family get shattered. 

Donna's mother looks so much like Judith Light, and Rebecca reminded me of Evan Rachel Wood. If they ever turn their story into a movie, that's who has to play them. 

In the end, it seems like Mark did it, but what about the weird stuff Roger said in the car? And didn't he harass her after? Plus the evidence against Mark seemed flimsy. Maybe there was a lot they weren't telling us. 

The whole Deanna thing was... horrible and confusing. 

For once I wish we got to have more information. 

[mamadrama]

2 hours ago, Melina22 said:

. 

Donna's mother looks so much like Judith Light, and Rebecca reminded me of Evan Rachel Wood. If they ever turn their story into a movie, that's who has to play them. 

 

And Ira (Donnah's father) looked like Rudy Giuliani. 

[Melina22]

1 minute ago, mamadrama said:

And Ira (Donnah's father) looked like Rudy Giuliani. 

You're absolutely right. How did I not see that? 

[mamadrama]

2 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

You're absolutely right. How did I not see that? 

It was an episode full of people who looked like other people. 

[UsernameFatigue]

6 hours ago, Melina22 said:

The Perfect Lie... that was really touching. And incredible as usual that someone who appeared so normal could be so evil. 

I was sure it was going to be an Evil Nanny story but I found Rebecca incredibly sympathetic and it was awful watching her lovely family get shattered. 

Donna's mother looks so much like Judith Light, and Rebecca reminded me of Evan Rachel Wood. If they ever turn their story into a movie, that's who has to play them. 

In the end, it seems like Mark did it, but what about the weird stuff Roger said in the car? And didn't he harass her after? Plus the evidence against Mark seemed flimsy. Maybe there was a lot they weren't telling us. 

The whole Deanna thing was... horrible and confusing. 

For once I wish we got to have more information. 

I am not sure if Roger harassed her, or if it was Mark saying that he harassed her in order to bolster his claim that Roger murdered Donnah. Even without the polaroid pictures found years later, I don't understand how the police could not have figured out that Mark's story of shooting Roger as he was hitting Donnah with the hammer could not be true. There were large blood stains both where Donnah and Roger had lain, which did not jibe with Mark's story. Not to mention of course the coffee cup and cigarettes of Rogers. And the fact that the hammer used to kill Donnah was Mark's. So Roger showed up just hoping to find something to use to kill Donnah?  And of course the note in the car indicating that Roger was meeting Mark at 4:30 at the house -he was not an unexpected intruder. Roger's roommate said that Mark had contacted Roger and set up a meeting, in Roger's words to smooth things over since Roger had been fired by his company. 

I was also suspicious of the 911 call right away. When the operator asked Mark if the intruder was dead, Mark replied that he didn't know, that he was making noises. Dead people don't make noises. He also said on the phone that he shot him once, but Roger was shot twice. I agree that Mark got off the phone with 911 in order to shoot Mark again and make sure he was dead. 

The other reason I am sure that Mark killed them both is that innocent men do not then try too arrange to have other people killed while in jail. He tried to hire someone to kill his ex mistress, his childhood friend who would not post his bail, and his former father in law. And it isn't like it was just the snitch's word against Marks - they had him wired so had Mark on tape trying to get more people killed. 

I was so glad to see that Rebecca did not stand by her man, nor did the kids stand by their father. What a strong woman she turned out to be. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by UsernameFatigue

[LEILANI2]

I wish there was more information on why they went through with the adoption if he was cheating on his wife.  I'd also like more info on the best friend of the wife he killed who he was having an affair with.

She must have been livid when he married the nanny and not her.

The wife's family are so sweet, sending Bailey a birthday card every year for 25 years when their daughter was murdered just a few months after adopting her.