20/20 - General Discussion

[Sweet-tea]

Watching the Anna Nicole Smith story made me wonder why this hasn't been made into a movie, either TV or maybe even theater. There was so much drama in her life. It seems like a story made for the screen. It would be interesting to see who they'd cast to play her though, because she was a larger woman and most actresses are so skinny. 

I don't really understand how antidepressants and Methadone caused her son's death unless he was taking more than prescribed. 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Sweet-tea

[UsernameFatigue]

20 hours ago, Sweet-tea said:

Watching the Anna Nicole Smith story made me wonder why this hasn't been made into a movie, either TV or maybe even theater. There was so much drama in her life. It seems like a story made for the screen. It would be interesting to see who they'd cast to play her though, because she was a larger woman and most actresses are so skinny. 

I don't really understand how antidepressants and Methadone caused her son's death unless he was taking more than prescribed. 

 

 

I think they said that the methadone was Anna Nicole's, so her son was taking his own medications along with one that was not prescribed to him. 

I was googling a bit about the court case of Anna Nicole, and then her estate, fighting for years to get some of Marshall's estate. I thought Anna Nicole's estate had received some money, and didn't realize that that decision had been overturned and the case continued for years. I also didn't know that Marshall's son Pierce, who was spearheading the fight against Anna, died several months before AN. Did they mention that in the documentary? He died of an infection that was resistant to antibiotics. His widow then carried on the fight.  Also a second son that Marshall cut out of the will also sued along with AN. Can't remember if that was covered as well, I may just have missed that detail. 

It was interesting to hear Larry say that Stern had stayed in their lives all these years. I wonder if it was because, as the executor of AN's estate, he was hoping to eventually get a windfall? He seems like he would be that type, but Larry seems to appreciate him so hopefully he is there for the right reasons. 

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by UsernameFatigue

[pieinmyeye]

If you look up gullible in the dictionary, there has to be a picture of the woman who is the focus of tonight’s episode. I can’t believe that among other lies, she thought the pope was going to officiate her wedding!!! I can be gullible, but damn!

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, pieinmyeye said:

If you look up gullible in the dictionary, there has to be a picture of the woman who is the focus of tonight’s episode. I can’t believe that among other lies, she thought the pope was going to officiate her wedding!!! I can be gullible, but damn!

Gullible or really crafty?

As a producer she really ran with this story.  And who would want their groom to do everything for the wedding?  Not that they couldn’t but wouldn’t you want some input?  

And don’t get me started on the dress designer, he didn’t appear too bright either  

Then again maybe love really is blind. A really perplexing episode.   

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by PsychoKlown

[Melina22]

I'm almost done watching this, and I'm having trouble getting my jaw off the floor. But not because I don't believe the story. 

I've watched a lot of these stories and this is honestly the first time I've been able to understand how a woman could have been taken in by one of these men. He legitimately was a multilingual, good-looking, world famous surgeon, not some weird slimeball who was pretending not to be unemployed. 

On top of that, people were taken in by the sheer audacity of his lies. Even now people can't figure out what his end game was for the whole Pope marriage lie. People had spent thousands of dollars on this fake wedding, but the money wasn't going to him. If this was a scam, how was it even supposed to work? And who has the audacity to do surgeries that aren't going to work right in front of world class surgical teams? 

It boggles the mind. I can't get my head around it. 

ETA. What in the what? He's free? He hasn't even gone to trial yet? For any of it? How is this even remotely possible?? 

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Melina22

[BusyOctober]

A lot to unpack in the “True Lies” episode...yikes.  

#1 The Pope: it doesn’t matter how revolutionary or radical the Pope is, as of right now, he would never:

-marry 2 divorced people, especially when one of the party ISN’T A CATHOLIC 

-allow same sex couples to receive communion 

#2 Benita: for a supposed smart and savvy woman, she was very easily duped or too “in love” with the money and cachet Paolo offered up.  I think Benita was a little bit of a narcissist...lots of photos of herself all dolled up, and the whole European Escapade with her Super Sleuth Squad. And she needs to stop the plastic surgery.  She looks like Janice Dickenson’s younger (by 20 minutes) sister. Her lips in the TH’s with the frosted pink lipstick were truly the worst over done over inflated lips I’ve seen since I stopped watching “Botched”.  At least she looked a little less deformed in the “present day” interview.

#3 Benita, pt 2: as a mother to a young daughter, and as a person of means with access to investigate connections, why didn’t she do a background check on Paolo earlier?? I wouldn’t go meet a guy for coffee without hitting up Google first, never mind get involved romantically with someone who would possibly be meeting my child.  She was doing a documentary on him FFS! Doesn’t part of that process involve researching your subject? I am by no means a money grubbing gold digger or materialistic, but if I was given a “diamond” ring that’s allegedly valued at $100k, I would be sure to get it appraised pretty quickly after receiving it just for insurance purposes.

#4 Paolo:  not a lot to say here.  Sociopath, psychopath, butcher, murderer, bigger more dangerous liar than Madoff IMO. I hope his victims’ families can find a speck of justice knowing this asshole has been exposed 

Lots of questions too...

Who paid for the designer dresses?  I hope the designer and his studio weren’t stiffed!  How was Paolo allowed to operate and insert synthetic organs to begin with?  Don’t they have to do clinical trials?  Don’t medical devices need to be OK’d by some governing body, even in Europe or Asia? It’s OK for a “surgeon” to go to the local Michael’s craft store and fabricate a “trachea” out of the same foam my daughter used to make a model of atoms and molecules for her 7th grade science fair? 

 

[Melina22]

42 minutes ago, BusyOctober said:

Her lips in the TH’s with the frosted pink lipstick were truly the worst

I had a hard time seeing past her exterior looks and surgery. I'm glad they made it clear at the beginning she was a kind, smart, functional person with lots of friends because her look was so distracting. Agree about the pale lips! She looked much better by the end, but I seriously think she should go blonde. The shots of her in Spain with the blonde wig and toned down makeup were adorable. Too bad her whole world was disintegrating at the same time. 

Her friends were very brave to walk up to his house. He could have shot them or something. By then, they knew he was crazy. Or something... 

It's horrifying the damage done to her daughter, and of course all the patients who died after getting false hope from him. How ever does he look and act like a normal human? 

 

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, BusyOctober said:

#1 The Pope: it doesn’t matter how revolutionary or radical the Pope is, as of right now, he would never:

-marry 2 divorced people, especially when one of the party ISN’T A CATHOLIC 

-allow same sex couples to receive communion

Hell, I'm not Catholic and even I know that. 

But hey, just for the sake of argument, let's say that that was true, that the Pope could do all of that and whatnot, and was going to officiate her wedding. I guess my next question would be, didn't she find it just the slightest bit odd that talk of the Obamas and Clintons and other big celebrities attending the wedding wasn't being splashed all over every news outlet imaginable? I mean, for cripes' sakes, when one celebrity attends another celebrity's wedding it makes the news circuits, be they entertainment or otherwise. If former presidents are going to attend an extravagant wedding involving a prominent doctor that's being officiated by the freaking Pope, uh, yeah, that's going to be BIG news. To say nothing of the controversy and debate regarding the "politics mixing with religion" element that would come along with that. 

And yet, nothing. I dunno about anyone else, but I'd find that curious. 

Paulo's "explanation" for why the Pope wouldn't be officiating their wedding was beyond ludicrous, too, trying to paint it as a former Pope trying to undermine the current one. I was sitting here listening to that and being like, "So help me, if she falls for that bullshit...". Thank goodness she didn't.

Quote

 How was Paolo allowed to operate and insert synthetic organs to begin with?  Don’t they have to do clinical trials?  Don’t medical devices need to be OK’d by some governing body, even in Europe or Asia?

I WAS WONDERING ABOUT THIS , TOO, OMG! Aren't there supposed to be strict and thorough background checks being done when someone applies to work at a hospital? Good lord. Talk about respected professionals and institutes/universities having massive egg on their faces. How the fuck do you not make sure everything's on the up and up in a profession where you've got people's lives on the line? I feel for the people who'd been trying to sound the alarm and investigate him for years only to be ignored for far too long. I can only begin to imagine how incredibly frustrating and maddening that would've been. 

Quote

It’s OK for a “surgeon” to go to the local Michael’s craft store and fabricate a “trachea” out of the same foam my daughter used to make a model of atoms and molecules for her 7th grade science fair? 

Ahaha, yeeeeeeeah, when they were explaining how these tracheas were supposed to work, I was sitting here like, "...uh, no, I don't think that's quite how that works." If I, someone who has zero medical knowledge and expertise, am highly skeptical of these supposed medical devices, surely people who actually are experts should've caught on a lot sooner. 

And then his cavalier response when talking about the failure of these devices, saying that the first heart/liver/etc. transplants don't always go off without complications, either. True, but when your devices lead to seven out of eight people dying, there's a problem here. Especially when they all die after being treated by you. 

Yeah. I feel for the poor families of those who've died. I hope their efforts to get justice pay off. And hopefully stories like this continue to raise awareness for women of the warning signs to watch out for as well. She said she'd just gotten out of a relationship before meeting Paulo because she wasn't looking for anything serious, and yet next thing she knows she's in a serious relationship with him and planning to marry him. He absolutely took advantage of her vulnerability. 

And then the extravagant trips and gifts while keeping the relationship so whirlwind-that's often a big warning sign, too. It's too much too soon, it's all done not because they want to make the person happy, but, as she said, to fuel their ego and leave you impressed with them. I mean, the gifts were so generic-your typical jewelry and roses and whatnot. Not to say those sorts of things can't be lovely gifts to get, because they can, but you can tell he would've given that stuff to any woman he was dating. He didn't tailor his gifts to her to what she specifically liked. It was all expensive stuff done with the sole purpose of showing off. 

I'd also be really concerned about a guy who, while having a professional investigation hanging over his head, one that includes investigating misconduct that led to people's deaths, no less, still wanted to focus on getting married. It's one thing to want to support your significant other as they're facing accusations, I can understand that on some level, but how that wasn't the point for her to call off the wedding right then and there, I don't know.

Crazy, crazy story. I hope Paulo enjoys his freedom while he's got it, because if everyone continues to fight as hard as they are, he won't be free for much longer. 

[UsernameFatigue]

I really, really, really disliked Benita. As she talked about how wonderful Paolo was to her when he ex husband was dying/died, I kept thinking WTF? Why aren't you with your daughter comforting her as she loses her father? Again, WTF? Then she proceeds to take several vacations with Paolo, leaving her daughter with relatives. Her daughter who has just lost her father. Sorry Benita, Paolo may have duped your daughter, but you willingly abandoned her for your new rich boyfriend. 

Some award winning investigative journalist. When they showed the picture of the ring Paolo gave her that he supposedly paid $100,000 for, I turned to hubby and said "Not likely".  I don't know of any woman who would have looked at that ring and believed it was worth $10,000, let alone $100,000. The diamonds were tiny. And as someone upthread had said, had she bothered to get it appraised that would have been one of many many red flags. Honestly, hubby and I were laughing at her continued stupidity, which has been pointed out by several already in this thread. I almost had tears in my eyes from laughing when she discovered on her wedding day that Paolo was not in Russia, but in Italy at his home. My husband did a great imitation of Benita saying "I can't believe you lied to me about where you would be today!" Imagine, Paolo lying!! Too funny.

Equally funny was that she had no idea that the piano Paolo was playing was a player piano. It was pretty obvious by the picture they showed of the front of it. And her daughter was playing the violin right beside him at times? I can't imagine she didn't notice that the piano was playing itself. I don't think Paolo was even trying to pretend that he was playing (as seen when he was flicking dust off the keys as it played) Bonita was just too dumb to notice. 

What isn't funny is how he has gotten away with the surgery that killed 7 out of 8 patients he operated on. How in hell was he allowed to get that far, and on so many people? But again, Bonita didn't really have that much to do with exposing him, as when she was supposed to be getting married, within a couple of weeks the institute received a 500 page report of concerns about Paolo. They just chose to ignore it. The guy who wrote to Vanity Fair article did much more digging into Paolo's claims that Bonita ever did.

I know love is blind, but it was dumb in this case as well. I have no sympathy for Benita. Other than she looks 20 years older than she did 7 years ago, but that appears to be self inflicted. 

Edited February 13, 2021 by UsernameFatigue

[Guest]

8 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

She looks like Janice Dickenson’s younger (by 20 minutes) sister.

As is my Saturday morning custom I enjoy crumb coffee cake and an espresso.   Today I am enjoying scraping off the coffee cake and espresso from my table because I had a mouthful of both while reading this.  I also had a coughing fit which left me with a sore throat.

But it was all worth it.  Laughs don't come as easily as they used to.  Thanks BusyOctober.  

[BusyOctober]

Apologies PsychoKlown!

But I am glad to know you didn’t choke, or damage your trachea and need Dr. Pathological Paola’s Play-Do synthetic windpipe surgery.  

[basiltherat]

Boy howdy, did both Paolo and Benita LOVE LOVE LOVE to film themselves -- such a perfect match!  Although I do think that HE loved himself enough for the both of them, and got his jollies by filming.

When she was saying that the Obamas and Clintons were coming and Andrea and Elton were performing, I said aloud to myself, "What next -- the Pope?!"   And then came the line about the Pope officiating.  Didn't any of her "friends" tell her that it sounded ridiculous??

Why was the blonde correspondent looking off into the sunset rather than talking directly to the camera?  

[snarkish]

Howdy, folks. New to this particular forum, but this episode and Anna Nicole's last week sucked me in. Last night I couldn't pry myself away from the set even though I could have DVR'd and was dog tired. I just wanted to know the END of this shitshow, and I felt like 2 hours covering this was way too long. 

Agreeing with others upthread, Benita was an idiot. Some "Emmy winning investigative journalist". I missed the first 10 minutes, was she already divorced from her ex husband before starting this relationship with Paulo? It sounds like he wasn't even cold before she took off with this clown with an idiotic name (as a half Italian, his name just gave me the damn giggles).

I was practically in hysterics, as her friends were, at the whole idea of the Pope officiating and the guest list. I was waiting to hear the invites of members of the Royal Family and the Dalai Lama as well. 

And as a formerly single Mother of a young daughter, WTF was she doing not checking this guy out whatsoever before involving her daughter?? Especially moving her to a country and home she never saw in person before?

The greatest laugh was the player piano. And she has to go back to the video tape again to see his fingers weren't on the keys correctly while it was playing. 

Sadly, working in scientific research, I can understand with people getting away with false data and research papers. It happens constantly. Although Karolinska ignoring the initial requests to investigate him by fellow peers was scary to hear, and makes you wonder a lot about Nobel prizes. 

I couldn't get over all of the images/videos of Paulo, it was like he posed for all of these for this show...where did all this footage come from? He was obviously aware of the camera on him. 

Lastly, if I was Benita, and after I had finally figured him out like she did...I would have done the opposite. I would have continued to pretend and schedule a new wedding date (in fact, I would have left the original date alone) just to see how far he was going to take this facade and how he was going to handle not being able to fulfill it at all. Sending him a text message saying she knew he was lying seemed juvenile and not exactly what an "EWIR" (Emmy winning investigative reporter) would do. 

ETA: Just searched her on FB. Evidently it's her "thing" now to call out con men, and she's got a page devoted to "love conned stories", so this 20/20 show was also all just PR for Benita and her newest "career" in "investigative journalism". Kind of like how the guy who started "Catfish" on MTV became a star sharing his story and devoting himself to calling out people catfishing others. *eyeroll*

Edited February 13, 2021 by snarkish

[UsernameFatigue]

After reading the above post, I decided to google Bonita as well. For those of us who are true crime fanatics, I was both stunned and amused to read that Bonita worked at Dateline for 16 years, including working on true crime stories. You just can't make this stuff up -lol. I wonder why Dateline isn't covering this story? Benita was definitely more interested in the life style that Paolo offered her, than listening to what one would think would be many voices in her head telling her to investigate him. Sheesh.

The guest list/entertainment for the wedding was hilarious. Hubby and I wondered why, once again, she would believe this? Had she ever even spent any time with his friends, let alone (and obviously not) the famous ones? And believing that the pope was going to push his agenda of modernizing the church by marrying two divorced people, one who wasn't even Catholic? I would think even most non Catholics (like myself) would know how ludicrous that was. 

I find that most 2 hour shows could be one hour, but this episode was way too short. I still want to know who the woman was at his house, and the kids? Was that another woman he was scamming? His actual wife? I would imagine there are other women he has conned over time, but he certainly hit gold with Benita.

Edited February 13, 2021 by UsernameFatigue

[basiltherat]

. . .  and she hit gold with him.  Now she is A CRUSADING JOURNALIST searching for the truth behind every Knight in Shining Armor that dinted her armor (with her obvious delight)  Guess what, 20/20 YOU HAVE BEEN PLAYED by her just as she was played by Paolo!

[Guest]

5 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

Apologies PsychoKlown!

But I am glad to know you didn’t choke, or damage your trachea and need Dr. Pathological Paola’s Play-Do synthetic windpipe surgery.  

So true.  

I am not sure I could have resisted his “liquid blue eyes, George Clooney-like salt and pepper hair and staggering intelligence”.  

Reading all the posts I am now leaning to the conclusion that it wasn’t Benita that was played - but all of us who sat through two hours of a pity party for one of the most self-centered women I’ve ever seen.  

Her friends seemed sweet and sensible but I imagine them sitting around, sipping wine and discussing hours on end Benita and her “fairytale romance”.   I also imagine that at some point, they had to know the romance was ludicrous.  

[BusyOctober]

I forgot to mention something else that really bugged me about Benita...her choices of wedding gowns.  Whether she thought the Pope would be present or not, none of those gowns showed were suitable for a Catholic ceremony in a Catholic church, I the middle of the headquarters of the Catholic See.  I am not Catholic, but when I went to the Vatican several summers ago, I knew in advance there was a strict dress code!  I wore a long skirt, a shirt with 3/4 sleeves and I had a head covering.  I loaned my scarf to a woman who showed up in a tank top because no bare shoulders allowed.

 How Benita ever thought she’d get away with those deep plunging, sleeveless, backless, hip-hugging, sequined and bedazzled dresses (including one with a TEAR AWAY skirt to reveal an even sluttier micro mini dress WITH A SIDE SLIT) in the presence of THE POPE just solidified my low regard for Benita.  She has no common sense.  What she does have is the fashion sense of a Bratz Doll looking at Quinceanera/Sweet 16 dresses. 

[UsernameFatigue]

1 hour ago, basiltherat said:

. . .  and she hit gold with him.  Now she is A CRUSADING JOURNALIST searching for the truth behind every Knight in Shining Armor that dinted her armor (with her obvious delight)  Guess what, 20/20 YOU HAVE BEEN PLAYED by her just as she was played by Paolo!

Benita has been peddling her story for awhile now. It was on Investigation Discovery Channel three years ago (as I am just discovering - no pun intended), she has been on Dr. Oz, and the story was on an ABC show called The Con in 2020. She also has continued to work on projects since finding out that she will not be moving to Barcelona.

BusyOctober, I was just typing out pretty much the same things that you have said regarding Bonita's wedding dress. WTF X 100.

And PsychoKlown, I don't feel played at all. I can't remember the last time I was so amused by a 20/20 show (not by Paolo's victims of course, but Benita). She is as much of a narcissist as he is, she just didn't kill anyone. 

BTW, apparently Benita was married a second time (I think she only talked about the ex who died). She married a ball room dancer in 2012, and met Paolo in Feb of 2013. So what happened to hubby number two? Seems like they could do another show just on Benita herself, as I think she and Paolo are two peas in a pod. 

Edited February 13, 2021 by UsernameFatigue

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, snarkish said:

I missed the first 10 minutes, was she already divorced from her ex husband before starting this relationship with Paulo? It sounds like he wasn't even cold before she took off with this clown with an idiotic name (as a half Italian, his name just gave me the damn giggles).

From what it sounds like, there was a relationship in between the death of her husband and her hooking up with Paulo, 'cause she mentioned ending things with the guy because she wasn't ready for a serious commitment. Like I said in my earlier post, seemed she changed her tune awfully quick on that score. 

And yes, his last name...I kept wanting to say "macaroni" :p. 

Quote

The greatest laugh was the player piano. And she has to go back to the video tape again to see his fingers weren't on the keys correctly while it was playing. 

I was amused by that part of the story simply because the piece they kept playing was sampled in a song from one of my favorite bands 😛. And the song they kept playing at the top of the hour and during a return from commercials was played in ads for "How to Get Away with Murder" back in the day. Which is kind of ironic. 

Quote

Sadly, working in scientific research, I can understand with people getting away with false data and research papers. It happens constantly. Although Karolinska ignoring the initial requests to investigate him by fellow peers was scary to hear, and makes you wonder a lot about Nobel prizes. 

That's disturbing. And yes, I had the same thought regarding Nobel prizes. 

50 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

After reading the above post, I decided to google Bonita as well. For those of us who are true crime fanatics, I was both stunned and amused to read that Bonita worked at Dateline for 16 years, including working on true crime stories. You just can't make this stuff up -lol. I wonder why Dateline isn't covering this story? .

Oh, my god, that's hilarious. It would be interesting to see Mankiewicz or Morrison interview her about him. 

12 minutes ago, BusyOctober said:

I forgot to mention something else that really bugged me about Benita...her choices of wedding gowns.  Whether she thought the Pope would be present or not, none of those gowns showed were suitable for a Catholic ceremony in a Catholic church, I the middle of the headquarters of the Catholic See.  I am not Catholic, but when I went to the Vatican several summers ago, I knew in advance there was a strict dress code!  I wore a long skirt, a shirt with 3/4 sleeves and I had a head covering.  I loaned my scarf to a woman who showed up in a tank top because no bare shoulders allowed.

 How Benita ever thought she’d get away with those deep plunging, sleeveless, backless, hip-hugging, sequined and bedazzled dresses (including one with a TEAR AWAY skirt to reveal an even sluttier micro mini dress WITH A SIDE SLIT) in the presence of THE POPE just solidified my low regard for Benita.  She has no common sense.  What she does have is the fashion sense of a Bratz Doll looking at Quinceanera/Sweet 16 dresses. 

Yes! She even mentioned at one point how the dress she'd planned to wear wouldn't be appropriate for a wedding officiated by the Pope...but then they showed the other dresses she wanted to wear instead and I was like, "...but...none of these are modest, either...?" 

I did like that red dress she had, though. I'd never dream of wearing something like that in a Catholic church, no, but it was very pretty. 

[UsernameFatigue]

3 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

From what it sounds like, there was a relationship in between the death of her husband and her hooking up with Paulo, 'cause she mentioned ending things with the guy because she wasn't ready for a serious commitment. Like I said in my earlier post, seemed she changed her tune awfully quick on that score. 

 

I forgot about her claim to have ended a relationship because she wasn't ready for a serious commitment. Which is a pretty odd claim, since she married a ball room dancer named Edson Jeune in 2012. So was Benita just flirting with the truth since she actually did enter into a serious commitment by marrying him, but then changed her mind? One would think an investigative journalist would know that that fact would be pretty easy to find. I hope this show does some damage to her credibility, because I think she is as much of a con artist (though not a deadly one) as Paolo is. 

[snarkish]

3 hours ago, basiltherat said:

Guess what, 20/20 YOU HAVE BEEN PLAYED by her just as she was played by Paolo!

Although I do feel "played" myself, now that I discovered she's been peddling this story for years and using it to launch a new-fangled "career", I do agree that it was entertaining, I was glued to my set for two hours way past my usual bedtime and refused to DVR it so I could know the ending. (Although...it really didn't "end" and it was rushed, it almost seemed like they were about to go over the 2 hour time frame). 

[Guest]

Totally mean girlish on my part but I imagine her searching and searching all day for any posts on her story.  I also imagine she wouldn’t be pleased with some of the postings.  

She’s a victim dontchaknow.

[Sweet-tea]

A two-hour show and I still have so many unanswered questions: who was the woman in Barcelona? Was that actually his wife and there wasn’t a wife in Italy? Benita said she knew he was married, so why was she planning a wedding with a guy who was still married? Wouldn’t she want to verify he’d actually gotten a divorce?

Who paid for all the lavish trips they went on? How could she look at that ring and think it was worth $100k? It was obvious the ring wasn’t extravagant. 

What about his education? Did he actually graduate from medical school somewhere? If so, where? We know he faked a bunch of other credentials so I really wanted to know exactly where the chain of lies started in terms of his education. And why on earth weren’t some of her friends and colleagues in “investigative journalism” raising questions about all this, especially when he took it to the level of the Pope officiating their wedding! Come on!

Frequent absences, cancellations of trips and dates, not wanting her to see where he lives, multiple phones. Uh... in my world that means he’s MARRIED and not in name only. I mean married and still living with his wife. 

How could this woman be so clueless?

I was into this until the last 15 minutes. They really dropped the ball. There was no payoff because the guy isn’t even in jail. Are there lawsuits pending against him or the hospital? I think they only mentioned one, which surprised me. Seven people died!

Where is the guy living now? Is he still with his wife? 

They didn’t follow up on a lot. It just kind of dropped off, especially in the last few minutes. I wasn’t even sure it was over until I saw the credits roll. 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Sweet-tea

[Kelly]

I remember Benita from watching “He Lies About Everything” on the ID Channel (I think).  Wow that super dark hair is doing her no favors...and the lips?  The heavy eyeliner on her bottom lid?  Oy

She reminds me of that other idiot woman that "fell in love" w that guy that claimed to be a surgeon (John Meehan aka Dirty John), and when the lies started crumbling he tried to kill her daughter who was figuring out who he was...remember that friggen mess? 

Another "super smart person". Sure Jan.  

Edited February 14, 2021 by Kelly

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Kelly said:

She reminds me of that other idiot woman that "fell in love" w that guy that claimed to be a surgeon (John Meehan aka Dirty John), and when the lies started crumbling he tried to kill her daughter who was figuring out who he was...remember that friggen mess?

On Oxygen today there was a two hour special on Dirty John.  I watched it and was thinking that it was so similar to what I watched last night.  

He claimed to one of his many women that he was a doctor.   When the woman’s daughter snooped and saw he had a license for nursing he said he had a “doctorate” in nursing, the same thing but a bit different.

The fact is that a doctorate in nursing is not the same as a medical degree.  An acquaintance I met at a conference has a doctorate in nursing and teaches at a state college.  She cannot practice medicine...it’s not the same thing.

With Paolo and Dirty John they assumed the perfect professions.  Who would question their motives...they’re doctors.  

I guess so many women have bought into the grand idea of marrying a “doctor” that when something suspicious happens they shelve the idea that something’s not right so as not to upset the apple cart.  

Then again, if you are wrong and the doctor turns out to be a con artist, you can always appear on 20/20, Dateline, an ID Network show, or write a book lambasting the scoundrel.

Either way....cha ching.

[Annber03]

3 minutes ago, PsychoKlown said:

I guess so many women have bought into the grand idea of marrying a “doctor” that when something suspicious happens they shelve the idea that something’s not right so as not to upset the apple cart.  

And they're already often insecure enough (which is a large part of how these guys hook them). They may know on some level this all sounds too good to be true, this guy lavishing them as they do, they may wonder deep down why a guy like this would spend so much time with them....but they still, obviously, want to believe they're worthy of that kind of attention and love and extravagance. 

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

And they're already often insecure enough (which is a large part of how these guys hook them). They may know on some level this all sounds too good to be true, this guy lavishing them as they do, they may wonder deep down why a guy like this would spend so much time with them....but they still, obviously, want to believe they're worthy of that kind of attention and love and extravagance. 

Exactly.

I think the women (and men) on these boards have developed or honed this sixth sense and because of watching all theses shows are a little less likely to buy everything some con artist is selling.

Maybe some see this as a detriment but I see myself as I am.  I will never be on the cover of Vanity Fair,  Brad Pitt or George Clooney will never hire a private detective to find out “who is that girl” because I am of average looks and would never fit the bill for a man with a giant ego. I am happily married to a man who I find quite attractive and who describes me as “beautiful”. 

I am sorry that Benita went through all she did but when you elevate yourself to heights that are not realistic, you’re setting yourself up for a fall.  She’d be so much better off if she stopped the Botox, stop the PS, stop with the posing and focused her time on her daughter.  It seems she has terrific friends.  Enjoy them.  Don’t worry about a man.  Think of all the time she wasted chasing down this loser.  

And I think I’m wasting my time on advice because I have a feeling Benita is onto her next conquest.  When does 20/20 start filming for their next season?

Edited February 14, 2021 by PsychoKlown

[Melina22]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

they may wonder deep down why a guy like this would spend so much time with them....but they still, obviously, want to believe they're worthy of that kind of attention and love and extravagance. 

Really interesting point. If an average-looking woman is single, and in her 30s (40s?) and a world famous surgeon, apparently one who's rich and friends with dignitaries and celebrities, starts obsessing over her, and treating her to a Lifetime-movie's worth of trips and gifts and romance, it would take a degree of narcissism and a certain lack of self-awareness not to think, "Hold on. This doesn't make sense. I'm not THAT great. " 

1 hour ago, PsychoKlown said:

Maybe some see this as a detriment but I see myself as I am.  I will never be on the cover of Vanity Fair,  Brad Pitt or George Clooney will never hire a private detective to find out “who is that girl” because I am of average looks and would never fit the bill for a man with a giant ego. I am happily married to a man who I find quite attractive and who describes me as “beautiful”. 

I fully believe, looking at Benita's facial expressions and body language, that she was totally in love, and devastated by the betrayal. And she does seem like someone other people really love, so she can't be a malignant narcissist, but some quality in her made it impossible to see herself realistically, in the way you describe. 

I've known several women who, like Benita, put so much effort into their (bad) hair, makeup and clothes that they almost appeared to be in costume. True story - the first time I saw one of them, I almost said, "Oh! Are you in a play?" because I thought she was wearing stage makeup. (She wasn't.) 

Some of these women were horrible narcissists, some were sweet and kind. But all loved attention, and all were weirdly lacking in self awareness. 

[Annber03]

13 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

Really interesting point. If an average-looking woman is single, and in her 30s (40s?) and a world famous surgeon, apparently one who's rich and friends with dignitaries and celebrities, starts obsessing over her, and treating her to a Lifetime-movie's worth of trips and gifts and romance, it would take a degree of narcissism and a certain lack of self-awareness not to think, "Hold on. This doesn't make sense. I'm not THAT great. " 

Yeah, that'd be me. I'm not even close to being middle class, so if some super rich guy started showing interest in me and whisking me off to fancy places and dropping exorbitant amounts of money on me, I'd definitely be wondering what's up, too. I never get that kind of luck, ever. Plus, even if the guy's interest was sincere, and his wealth was legitimate and he truly was just a genuinely generous and kind person, I'd still feel so weird about getting that kind of overload of riches. I don't need to have top level designer clothes, or some fancy home in some other country, or expensive jewelry, or things of that sort. I wouldn't want that. It's not me. It's not my lifestyle or taste. It's too showy, too flashy, too....much. My dream scenario is to just have enough money that i can take care of the basic necessities and my family's needs, and live a quiet, comfortable, simple life. I really wouldn't need anything more than that. 

And I sure as hell wouldn't quit my job even if I did meet a guy who was financially set. I'd want to be able to still do my own thing, and I'd want to have my own funds because, well, as this story proved, it can all disappear any second, either through a con or some other kind of calamity. 

[Melina22]

3 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I'd still feel so weird about getting that kind of overload of riches

My feeling exactly. She was so thrilled about a wedding that rivaled the Oscars combined with the Met Ball. My nightmare. 😁

[Annber03]

LOL, seriously! God, yeah, if I ever were to get married, I'd just want my and my spouse's immediate family and our closest friends there. That's it. It could be at the courthouse or, if we really did want to fancy it up a little, in someone's backyard, and I'd be happy. Aside from all the con stuff, when I see THAT much work going into a wedding like that, it always screams to me that those people care more about the spectacle than they do about the fact they're marrying someone they love and want to spend their life with. 

My mom also found it so weird how she wasn't involved in any of the wedding planning, that it was all supposed to be a big surprise for her, and I agree with that, too. One or two small, special surprises, things you know your loved one would be thrilled to get on their wedding day? Cool. Fine. That'd be a sweet little gesture. 

But practically the whole freaking wedding being a surprise? Eh, yeah, no. I definitely believe both people should be involved in planning their wedding. Even if one person is better at planning than the other and takes over most of the preparations, it's still good for them to consult with their significant other to make sure that they're on the same page about various aspects of the wedding ceremony. IF you're not going to get your loved one's input on this kind of thing before you walk down the aisle, to me, that's not a good sign for your marriage in general. 

[mamadrama]

16 hours ago, PsychoKlown said:

So true.  

I am not sure I could have resisted his “liquid blue eyes, George Clooney-like salt and pepper hair and staggering intelligence”.  

Reading all the posts I am now leaning to the conclusion that it wasn’t Benita that was played - but all of us who sat through two hours of a pity party for one of the most self-centered women I’ve ever seen.  

Her friends seemed sweet and sensible but I imagine them sitting around, sipping wine and discussing hours on end Benita and her “fairytale romance”.   I also imagine that at some point, they had to know the romance was ludicrous.  

Not just 2 hours...Back in the fall they devoted an episode to Benita on "The Con". So some of us have now sat through 3 hours...That discussion is on here, too. 

[Sweet-tea]

On 2/13/2021 at 7:05 PM, Kelly said:

Wow that super dark hair is doing her no favors...and the lips?  The heavy eyeliner on her bottom lid?  Oy

 I agree! Watching her my first reaction was, “She really needs a a “makeunder.” Tone everything down! Lighten the hair, ditch the eyeliner and please leave the lips alone! The frosted pink lipstick was hideous. The red was better but not much. Still too much lips! She looked so much better with her natural lips. Looks like she’s using a lot of filler too because her face looked pretty full in the ending interview.

Her whole look needs to be softened. The super straight hair wasn’t flattering either. 

I can’t remember what magazine it was that used to do makeunders but Benita would be an excellent candidate. 

I wonder if Pretty Woman is one of her favorite movies. A little strange as the Julia Roberts character is a prostitute, but the fantasy elements are there: being rescued from a lonely life, whisked away, an extravagant shopping trip... so many women still dream about this kind of stuff. They still do it on The Bachelor. They’ll have dates where the guy takes the woman shopping, she buys a bunch of expensive clothes and they travel in a limo or helicopter to an extravagant dinner (that they don’t eat). Sometimes he’ll cap it off by giving her the perfect diamond necklace and earrings to go with her dress. 

It’s all fantasy, a modern-day Cinderella story. Another one: Richard Gere in dress uniform in An Officer and a Gentleman strutting into the factory and lifting Debra Winger into his arms and carrying her out of that horrible place while the other poor women cheer. I guess some women still want a version of this story, even Benita who had a career, a child and seemed to be earning a decent living. 

Where was her gut feeling? Where was that little alarm going off in her head that something wasn’t right? 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Sweet-tea

[pieinmyeye]

On 2/12/2021 at 11:55 PM, BusyOctober said:

She looks like Janice Dickenson’s younger (by 20 minutes) sister.

I knew she reminded me of someone I’ve seen before!

[Josiemae]

OMG. This is the most idiotic true crime episode I've ever seen! These people are beyond STUPID for being taken in by this guy. I guess it takes a MASSIVE ego to turn a blind eye to that sea of red flags.  And going public with her silly behavior demonstrates what an adolescent drama queen this woman is. 

I'm betting if she had gotten her princess wedding, she would EVEN TODAY be defending Dr. Psychopath against the charges he's racked up for murdering people. All the while obsessing over what to wear to court, no doubt. 

Are we supposed to feel sympathy for this narcissistic woman? Or regard her as some sort of hero? And what's with the inflatable lips? 

[CrazyInAlabama]

Tonight's Five Weddings & a Murder with Margaret Rudin is new.   The story isn't.   She was released on parole last year, and wanted to relocate to Chicago, where her family lives.     Her claim that she didn't kill him are ridiculous.    He was killed in their bedroom, his body was burned, and in an old steamer trunk, and she just happened to have an antique shop.   He was her fifth husband, and very rich.  The gun that killed him was his, and went missing soon after he married her.       He was apparently going to divorce her, and that would stop her from inheriting his wealth.    She went into hiding for quite a while, and finally was caught and that started the long legal wrangling over her conviction.  

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Rudin

[basiltherat]

So is 20/20 now the official program of delusional egomaniacal females of 'a certain age' pursuing rich husbands?  I got snockered in again for another two hours and it was, once again, vastly entertaining.  Did the cops not even attempted to discover if Ron's murder was a mafia hit or are they afraid of them?  I would look for a trail of cannoli crumbs . . . 

[Melina22]

On 2/20/2021 at 1:26 PM, basiltherat said:

So is 20/20 now the official program of delusional egomaniacal females of 'a certain age' pursuing rich husbands?  I got snockered in again for another two hours and it was, once again, vastly entertaining.

Good point. I'm aware that 95% of the time it's husbands killing their wives, either for money or to be with someone else, but I've reached the point where I can't listen to any more of that particular story. It's so depressing. That's why a Black Widow type of story seems way more interesting. 

I feel like the case against Margaret Rudin is surprisingly weak, but I'm noticing that in her interviews she shows all the traits we're used to seeing in a lot of murderers. Superficial charm, extremely high self esteem, and the refusal to accept blame for anything. (I can't believe her own sister threw her under the bus!) 

That said, I think it's very possible she didn't do it. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Melina22

[Melina22]

I'll never not find the Vallow Daybell case fascinating and horrifying, and I'm glad tonight's show had new interviews, but in the end there was almost no new information, which was disappointing. 

I really didn't get good vibes from Laurie's mother. Apparently Laurie can do no wrong in her eyes, which could explain a lot. 

[Ellee]

Just watching this now.  
 

SMH. ‘The kind of mother she is.’  ‘She’d never hurt her kids or anybody’s kids.’  
 

Yeah.... right. 

[Melina22]

Right at the beginning, discussing all Laurie's failed marriages, her mother is adament that Laurie was totally blameless. She just had such a big heart that she kept getting taken in by the wrong men. Me: giant eye roll. (One or two marriages, maybe. But 5?)

[BusyOctober]

That whole Cox family is deranged and should be under constant surveillance.  The (thankfully) dead brother is a murderer of at least 1 person, probably the kids too. The sister and the niece are indoctrinated assholes.  And the mother is living in a bubble of denial and deflection.  I laughed out loud when she was discussing the funeral services they had for her son, “ We didn’t invite anyone who thought he was a murderer, so it was a small ceremony.”  No shit, just you and your effed up clan in attendance, because the rest of the world knows he’s a MURDERER.  And on a very shallow note...Mama Cox should not outline her extensively wrinkled lips with a 2” wide lip liner, in a darker non-complimentary shade.  Lip liner should not extend up into your nostrils.

what is most frustrating in this case to me is they may never be able to press charges of murder.  As they reported, unless one of them confesses, the prosecution has no way to determine who actually killed Tylee and JJ.

[Ellee]

She definitely wanted to be famous.  That is for sure. 
 

‘Alex always tells the truth.’  Not when it came to Charles Vallow.  
 

I didn’t realize Cox took his new wife’s last name.  New life?  Have to ask myself why as I’m sure according to the book of Daybell/Vallow Cox would have been one of 144,000. 

Do you think these two are watching this in prison?

Do you think Dayhell is writing a tell-all in prison?  Is Mrs Dayhell doing the prison’s populations’ hair to make them all beautiful?

When do these two become ‘zombies’?  
 

Things I want to know. 

[Melina22]

11 minutes ago, BusyOctober said:

what is most frustrating in this case to me is they may never be able to press charges of murder.  As they reported, unless one of them confesses, the prosecution has no way to determine who actually killed Tylee and JJ.

But even if they didn't do the actual killing, there's so much evidence they at least knew about the murders and helped cover them up. I thought that alone was a serious crime. 

 

11 minutes ago, BusyOctober said:

And on a very shallow note...Mama Cox should not outline her extensively wrinkled lips with a 2” wide lip liner, in a darker non-complimentary shade.  Lip liner should not extend up into your nostrils.

Yikes, yes!! 

To me, one of the most damning things was how a few seconds after her brother SHOT HER HUSBAND DEAD, Laurie said "Come on kids! Step around your dad's possibly dead body and we'll head for Burger King!" Add to that the laughing with the police, and throwing a pool party that night in the murder house, and any idea people might have had that she was a remotely normal human should have gone out the window. 

[Ellee]

The new husband of the niece better run like he’s never ran before.   Or did he run already?  I can’t remember her name but she is a mini-me of Lori. 
 

Question.  Do they really have to prove who killed who?  Aren’t you just as guilty if you are involved?   There can be no question that they were involved.  
 

Another one.  Tammy Daybell was young.  Aren’t the authorities required to do an autopsy since there was no long-standing illness?

Sorry... I’ll have a million posts today.  Those poor babies.  Tammy,  Charles.  Mr Ryan was probably murdered by Lori/Alex too.   
 

[Melina22]

16 minutes ago, Ellee said:

Another one.  Tammy Daybell was young.  Aren’t the authorities required to do an autopsy since there was no long-standing illness?

Yes, I forgot! They exhumed her body, presumably to do a few tests and take some samples, yet this was never mentioned again. I'm assuming the results are being kept secret for the investigation. 

Oh, and if the remains of my new husband's children were found buried on my property, I assume I'd be in A LOT of trouble, regardless of what they could prove. 

That said, the Daybells are in jail, not walking around free, so it's not like they've escaped justice. For once, I trust that the authorities are going to find a way to keep them there, because you just know that not a single person in law enforcement thinks they're innocent. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

I've read that one reason both are still in jail is that no bail bond company will bail them out.   

Usually in these famous cases, the attorneys want a change of venue.   Where could they change it to that could find jurors that hadn't heard about this case?   

Also, there is an automated system that does notifications when someone is released on bail, and there was a glitch with the system, and a notification was sent out that Lori Vallow Daybell was released on bail.   She wasn't, but the amount of phone calls to the DA, and jail numbered in the thousands.   

[BusyOctober]

Did Lori have more than just one son with her 1st husband? Colby? Cody?   Where is he in all this?? He must be on the She’s Guilty side because if he was defending her, I would think he would be interviewed like Lori’s effed up Mother, sister and niece.

What about Daybell’s children with Tammy?  Are they all adults?  Wonder how they feel about all of this.  How come his kids didn’t become zombies? Is Lori, the exalted deity being 🙄, the only one capable of creating zombie children? 

it just is all so tragic and horrifying.  Chad and Lori are so very obviously mentally ill.  It isn’t an excuse for anything they have done (not allegedly done...they did everything they are suspected of doing).  It is just so bizarre that no real intervention was ever done once Looney Lori started her zombie and 144,000 talk.  But I guess police and social workers hands are legally tied until actual harm or murder is done.  
 

 

[dshgr]

7 minutes ago, BusyOctober said:

It is just so bizarre that no real intervention was ever done once Looney Lori started her zombie and 144,000 talk

I'm guessing this falls under religious freedom.  My personal view is that all religions are looney, so there's that.... 

[LakeGal]

I am so sick of this case that I didn't even watch last night.