S01.E04: The Separation of Church and Dan

[tessaray]

Airdate: November 13, 2018

Quote

When Geena learns that D.J. hasn’t been taking Mary to church, she insists they go as a family. Mark’s attempt to conduct an unbiased survey on the upcoming election for his school project goes south when Jackie volunteers to help.

[Annber03]

"I can't turn my back on my atheism, it's the only thing I believe in." LOL. I also laughed at the deaconess telling the Connors to stand up, and then being all, "I'm just kidding, we all know you." 

Awwwwww. Dan. Boy, can I sympathize with his frustration, both at God and in general, and his struggle to deal with all of this. I totally understand Darlene's concern-my dad was just like Dan in resisting help and whatnot, and it is tough to just sit by in those moments. But I also sympathize with him wanting to find his own way to mourn and move on. That ending was nice. 

I also liked Jackie getting all into how things at Geena's church worked. Darlene in that setting was totally me, though :p. 

[tessaray]

I wonder if it was a mistake to hold this one back when it so obviously was the follow-on to the season opener.  We could have really used those scenes before now, especially the one between Dan and Becky. 

I got the feeling that Geena is back from overseas permanently. They didn't say explicitly that she wasn't going back but it seemed implied. 

ETA:  Is it bad that I laughed at Darlene's "Say hi to Mom" when Dan was going off to ride his motorcycle? 

[snarkylady]

The laugh track was terribly distracting.  Was it this bad in other episodes and I just didn't notice? 

Nice touch with Mr. Peterson in a support group (from Bob Newhart, many many years ago).

[Bronzedog]

I liked this one.  The ending was a throw back to the original series when all the poker players started tapping on things.  Don’t remember the song they did it to, though.

[ams1001]

3 minutes ago, Bronzedog said:

I liked this one.  The ending was a throw back to the original series when all the poker players started tapping on things.  Don’t remember the song they did it to, though.

[CherryAmes]

44 minutes ago, tessaray said:

ETA:  Is it bad that I laughed at Darlene's "Say hi to Mom" when Dan was going off to ride his motorcycle? 

Well sit next to me on the naughty bench because I laughed too.

Edited November 14, 2018 by CherryAmes

[mojoween]

“I’m getting my jacket!” made me laugh when Becky said it and then all throughout the commercial break.

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, mojoween said:

“I’m getting my jacket!” made me laugh when Becky said it and then all throughout the commercial break.

The way she just flew right by as she said it made that all the funnier :D. 

[festivus]

49 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

"I can't turn my back on my atheism, it's the only thing I believe in." LOL.

I loved that. She still went to church for her niece. I probably wouldn't. 

 

Becky was killing me in this one. "Rubba dub dub, thanks for the grub!" "Wait, let me get my jacket" Lol

Edited November 14, 2018 by festivus
one too many dubs

[Coffeewinewater]

Really enjoyed this episode. It felt easy. I laughed throughout the episode.  My only complaint is Geena. The writers need to help this character,  quick. She can't always be angry/stern. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Coffeewinewater

[Chaos Theory]

Once again the show hit all the right notes from Dan resistance to accepting anyone’s help and to Darene and Becky trying to help him anyway, to Jackie taking Mark to the mall to help him with a project and getting overly involved with it.  I even liked DJ and Geena in this.  And it made sense.  Even if you are not a religious person yourself you can understand why she liked having her daughter go to church with her.  It was kinda their thing and for someone who spent a great deal of time overseas to lose that must be tough and it was nice to see the conners go to church despite their atheism for DJs sake.

And for the record even though I am more or less an atheist I have gone to church for my nieces and nephews sake.  I can stand it for an hour or so.  

Edited November 14, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Colorado David]

44 minutes ago, snarkylady said:

The laugh track was terribly distracting.  Was it this bad in other episodes and I just didn't notice? 

Nice touch with Mr. Peterson in a support group (from Bob Newhart, many many years ago).

wow, was that Mr Peterson? I didn't recognize him. I did however, for you Lost fans, recognize the guy leading the loss group as the boat captain who kidnapped Walt.

eta: that wasn't John Fiedler (Mr Peterson). the actor died in 2005. looks a lot like him tho.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Colorado David

[Nordly Beaumont]

2 minutes ago, Colorado David said:

wow, was that Mr Peterson?

Hope not, he's quite dead. Was it Paul from Cheers?

[tessaray]

5 minutes ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

Hope not, he's quite dead. Was it Paul from Cheers?

I thought it was Paul from Cheers, too. 

[CherryAmes]

One thing I am really liking is that they are being allowed to mourn Roseanne Conner.  I hated the way Two and Half Men held such a grudge against Charlie Sheen that they destroyed the character of Charlie Harper and made him a horrible human being who didn't even have his own mother grieve his death in any meaningful way.  This episode was a great way to show that they have lost their matriarch and they are all dealing with that - you don't get over the death of a wife or mother in a week but life does go on.  This show is really hitting the right notes with that for me.

[Dee]

I could watch a whole episode devoted to Jackie in church.

[TomGirl]

4 minutes ago, Dee said:

 

I could watch a whole episode devoted to Jackie in church.

 

Ditto Jackie in the mall.

[Nordly Beaumont]

I would have liked the end better if Jackie had just come in, saw the guys singing and enjoyed the moment quietly. I did like  the "whoop" bit as she left the room.

[Steff]

I always liked teenaged Becky, even when she was being a brat.  But I LOVE adult Becky. 

[Luciano]

I cackled when Jackie explained why she went to church: "I take my mother to services every Sunday just to remind God she's still here in case He forgot to take her."

Edited November 14, 2018 by Luciano

[mythoughtis]

42 minutes ago, Luciano said:

I cackled when Jackie explained why she went to church: "I take my mother to services every Sunday just to remind God she's still here in case He forgot to take her."

 

Liked the line, but ‘my mother’ seemed formal to me in a room of only family. Why didn’t she just say ‘Mom’.  

If Geena was deployed for two years, she should have been home for leave at points. They still get 30 days a year, right?  So why wasn’t this resolved earlier. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by mythoughtis

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, tessaray said:

I wonder if it was a mistake to hold this one back when it so obviously was the follow-on to the season opener.  We could have really used those scenes before now, especially the one between Dan and Becky. 

Yeah, when she took a beer out of the fridge before going to church, that should have been foreshadowing of the later episode where she admitted she had a drinking problem.

And Darlene talking about how the Conners should just do what they always do, spend all their money on Halloween so that they don't have anything left for Thanksgiving or Xmas, would have made more sense before the Halloween episode.

[LBS]

I thought one of the most telling small moments of the episode is when Becky and Dan are talking  about her coping after Mark died and he said ‘so you did it by yourself ‘ and she looks down at her beer and says yes. (Paraphrased). I hope they deal with that.

[AgentRXS]

Jackie was a little annoying in this ep, but I loved her in the mall. When she chased down the guy with the MAGA hat on, I lost it. I also loved her pink church hat too. 

Yeah, this was so obviously meant to be the 2nd episode that I wish they would have kept the order.

Dan's support group is so true to life. I'm with ya, Dan. It just isnt for me. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by AgentRXS

[breezy424]

I really liked this episode but I just don't 'feel' DJ and Geena.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Still watching. Loving Jackie. But why does the script require that she swat Mark’s behind?

[Bastet]

This was quite obviously an early aftermath episode - even without it being set pre-election and “we should blow our money on Halloween” - but to deal with the disjointed feeling, I decided I can appreciate moving it back this far, as grief usually isn’t linear. 

Great family dynamic.  I like the two completely valid tugs, between Dan wanting to be left the hell alone, and the family being worried about his isolation.  I loved this exchange between Chuck and Dan:

“We know what you’re going through.”
“Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t realize Anne Marie was dead.”

I’ve never been to a support group, but shouldn’t they have let Dan indeed just take the step of showing up and listening, and then speak if/when he wanted, rather than forcing it?  He might have stayed, and may even have wound up sharing.

Dan, the father, asking Becky, the daughter, for advice on dealing with the loss of a spouse was wonderful.  The beer swig was perfectly timed.

Dan complaining about Jackie’s car blocking the driveway reminded me of the “You’re blocking me, Jackie,”/”In what sense?”/“In a Plymouth sense” scene from the original Roseanne.

Modern-day Becky absolutely would dash through in the background to grab her jacket and join her dad’s friends at a strip club, so I laughed.

I thought Jackie’s “Oh, were we go” as she stalks after the MAGA hat guy would make my night.  But then “Say hi to Mom” came along and I roared.

It’s weird they didn’t explain why Geena is back; in the premiere, she was home on bereavement leave, not because her rotation was up.  So why is she suddenly transferred back to base?

If D. J. in two years didn’t want to take Mary to church, why can’t that be okay, and now Mary can choose to go with her mom if she wants?  And why does the entire Conner family, including kids not given a choice, have to tag along to something they don’t subscribe to in order to reignite this?  Geena can talk with Mary now that she’s home about why she likes church, and give Mary the option of resuming this Mom and Me activity if she wants in time.

But LOL at asking the Conners to stand up so they all know who they are, followed by the "just kidding; we know" -- perfect tone for the only white folks in the pews joke. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Bastet

[hoodooznoodooz]

Whoever directed the under-5 and extra in the mall scene did a lousy job. The “walking past” Mark was very unnatural.

I really, really, really need them to lose the audience laughing. Like, now.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Everything Dan/JG did and said at that support group was so real and understandable.

 

“And by ‘God,’ I mean Geena.” 

[TomGirl]

34 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I’ve never been to a support group, but shouldn’t they have let Dan indeed just take the step of showing up and listening, and then speak if/when he wanted, rather than forcing it? 

Yeah, that was the one scene that really fell flat for me.  I know they’re going for comedy, but no real support group would ever act like that.

[hoodooznoodooz]

“From what I saw, the fun ones died.”

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

If D. J. in two years didn’t want to take Mary to church, why can’t that be okay, and now Mary can choose to go with her mom if she wants?  And why does the entire Conner family, including kids not given a choice, have to tag along to something they don’t subscribe to in order to reignite this?  Geena can talk with Mary now that she’s home about why she likes church, and give Mary the option of resuming this Mom and Me activity if she wants in time.

They don't "have to". DJ feels guilty because apparently he'd agreed to take Mary to church while Geena was deployed, but didn't actually do it. Mary, after not having attended church in a long time, and seeing that her cousins don't have to go, didn't feel motivated to go either. DJ asked his family to go as a favor, because he wanted to do something nice for Geena, more so than motivate Mary. I'm sure neither DJ nor Geena expect that the rest of the family will go to church every week from now on.

I love everything about Dan in this reboot. The way he processes his grief is very realistic for men of his age and background, and John Goodman is such a great actor that he never misses the mark.

I got a kick out of Jackie narrating the obvious at church and at the poker game, but her yelling at Republicans at the mall was a bit much. I was hoping the argument with the pretzel guy was going to lead to them dating; the fighting for the sake of fighting didn't serve any purpose IMO.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 hours ago, TomGirl said:

Yeah, that was the one scene that really fell flat for me.  I know they’re going for comedy, but no real support group would ever act like that.

It also doesn't help to have a participant who claims not to have made any progress in 20 years.  I'm not sure what cam be done about that other than to have a group for the newly bereaved and one for others, but I don't know where you would draw that line.

Edited November 14, 2018 by ItCouldBeWorse

[rmontro]

6 hours ago, tessaray said:

Is it bad that I laughed at Darlene's "Say hi to Mom" when Dan was going off to ride his motorcycle? 

Dan laughed, so I'd say it's all right for you to.

Also liked Darlene's opening lines about how the Conners spend all their money on Halloween, so they don't have anything to be thankful for on Thanksgiving, or any money to buy presents at Christmas.  Makes total sense too, since the family has always been strapped for cash, and yet has always been extravagant at Halloween.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, rmontro said:

Also liked Darlene's opening lines about how the Conners spend all their money on Halloween, so they don't have anything to be thankful for on Thanksgiving, or any money to buy presents at Christmas.  Makes total sense too, since the family has always been strapped for cash, and yet has always been extravagant at Halloween.

Halloween always comes first, and they're not long-range planners.

[Chaos Theory]

I think this episode was a little too political and religious for the executives at ABC abd they maybe were afraid they would lose viewers after the first episode so they wanted the Johnny Galeki episode as early as possible.  

That being said I loved Jackie at the mall with the prezzle guy.  It went exactly like poltical charged fights go and I loved how it ended with both of them shouting “Fake News”.  And then Jackie chasing guy with the MAGA hat. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Chaos Theory]

There are different kinds of grief there is The This Is Us brand of...my god this will never end Game of Thrones Red Wedding grief and there is the leave me alone while I get on my bike until I see god  “say hi to mom” laugh while  we cry grief.  

Edited November 14, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[hoodooznoodooz]

5 hours ago, rmontro said:

Dan laughed, so I'd say it's all right for you to.

Also liked Darlene's opening lines about how the Conners spend all their money on Halloween, so they don't have anything to be thankful for on Thanksgiving, or any money to buy presents at Christmas.  Makes total sense too, since the family has always been strapped for cash, and yet has always been extravagant at Halloween.

 

4 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Halloween always comes first, and they're not long-range planners.

I must admit, I love Halloween. I would prioritize like the Connors, too. 

[TattleTeeny]

Dan's quiet voice and inflection when he asked the group for permission to just listen for now almost made me cry!

Edited November 14, 2018 by TattleTeeny

[jmonique]

That was phenomenal TV. Getting rid of Roseanne has made this ensemble so much better -- there are no stops for her to overact and screech at them. Now John, Sara and the others can just act and be.

[Angeltoes]

Is this the first time ever that we've heard Dan say a direct "I love you" to one of his kids?  He was always more of the type that shows it but doesn't say it.

[qtpye]

14 hours ago, Annber03 said:

"I can't turn my back on my atheism, it's the only thing I believe in." LOL. I also laughed at the deaconess telling the Connors to stand up, and then being all, "I'm just kidding, we all know you." 

Awwwwww. Dan. Boy, can I sympathize with his frustration, both at God and in general, and his struggle to deal with all of this. I totally understand Darlene's concern-my dad was just like Dan in resisting help and whatnot, and it is tough to just sit by in those moments. But I also sympathize with him wanting to find his own way to mourn and move on. That ending was nice. 

I also liked Jackie getting all into how things at Geena's church worked. Darlene in that setting was totally me, though :p. 

 

14 hours ago, tessaray said:

I wonder if it was a mistake to hold this one back when it so obviously was the follow-on to the season opener.  We could have really used those scenes before now, especially the one between Dan and Becky. 

I got the feeling that Geena is back from overseas permanently. They didn't say explicitly that she wasn't going back but it seemed implied. 

ETA:  Is it bad that I laughed at Darlene's "Say hi to Mom" when Dan was going off to ride his motorcycle? 

 

14 hours ago, snarkylady said:

The laugh track was terribly distracting.  Was it this bad in other episodes and I just didn't notice? 

Nice touch with Mr. Peterson in a support group (from Bob Newhart, many many years ago).

 

13 hours ago, festivus said:

I loved that. She still went to church for her niece. I probably wouldn't. 

 

Becky was killing me in this one. "Rubba dub dub, thanks for the grub!" "Wait, let me get my jacket" Lol

 

 

13 hours ago, Coffeewinewater said:

Really enjoyed this episode. It felt easy. I laughed throughout the episode.  My only complaint is Geena. The writers need to help this character,  quick. She can't always be angy/stern. 

 

 

13 hours ago, CherryAmes said:

One thing I am really liking is that they are being allowed to mourn Roseanne Conner.  I hated the way Two and Half Men held such a grudge against Charlie Sheen that they destroyed the character of Charlie Harper and made him a horrible human being who didn't even have his own mother grieve his death in any meaningful way.  This episode was a great way to show that they have lost their matriarch and they are all dealing with that - you don't get over the death of a wife or mother in a week but life does go on.  This show is really hitting the right notes with that for me.

 

12 hours ago, Steff said:

I always liked teenaged Becky, even when she was being a brat.  But I LOVE adult Becky. 

Is it me or is the Becky character becoming the sleeper break out character of this show? She has really become interesting and funny and you are rooting for her to do better. I am glad they did not make her a brainless party girl. You can see Becky's pain. Also, she is someone who did not live up to her potential for various reasons (husband died young, etc.) but you can see there is still hope for her. I also like that the solution to Becky's problems is not  being held up as "finding the right man" I read this great article in the Atlantic https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/11/all-the-single-ladies/308654/ (warning, it is looong, but so worth it if you have the time) about how hard it is for women to find suitable husbands in the developed world. For upper-middle-class women, it is because there are not enough men who can equal them in education and career success and lower middle class/ low-income women cannot find enough men financially stable enough to start a family. Also, women have gained a lot of autonomy and independence, so marrying is more of an option than a necessity which is unlike previous generations.

In the original series, Jackie being middle-aged and single was looked upon as pathetic. The truth is that now many middle-aged women are single and lead very satisfying wonderful lives.

I am a woman of color, I fear that they are writing Geena to be a tyrant in the relationship, which might touch on some unflattering stereotypes. I wish DJ would have apologized for breaking his promise to take Mary to Church, but been honest that he had a very different belief system. Instead, he begs his family to go to church, even though it was not what they wanted to do. I just do not ever see him standing up to his wife in any manner. Also, why the heck would someone as religious as Geena want to be with DJ? Would it not be important to her that her spouse also be a "man of faith"? However, DJ did grow up with a dominating mother so it makes total sense that he would be attracted to someone with a strong personality. Mary is adorable. Mark is growing on me even though the actor still seems a little too "Hollywood polished and precocious" to fit in with this family. In tv, it always seems like support groups help fix everything when it truth it often depends on how well they are organized. I like that Dan's support group really did not work or him, because in truth, they do not work for a lot of people, but are great for others.

Edited November 14, 2018 by qtpye

[gesundheit]

Could not agree more about Becky, qtpye, and was literally coming here to say just that: Becky is both hilarious AND has depth and I'm so surprised that she's my favorite character as this 2018 version. I remember how difficult Becky and Dan's relationship was way back when because of Mark and it just gets me choked up that they're so connected now. And Lecy Goranson is nailing it -- she was always awkward so it was like they wrote for teen Goranson in a way that leaned into what she brought naturally (so much so that the recast made ZERO sense even though I like Chalke), but now I feel like she's grown so much as an actress and has comic timing down pat. (I also REALLY hope they don't give her a full-blown alcoholism storyline.)

[StaceyNotStacie]

I’ve been enjoying this series. The episode was better than I expected. I wonder if there was extra editing of the episode because of it happening after the election.  Based on the description, I assumed the election story would be the main story, but it turned out to be Dan’s story was the main focus. 

The one thing that I love about this series is the dialogue. Everyone just seems sharp and on their game with the dialogue. 

[seacliffsal]

I really did not like the election/polling scene.  Jackie was ready to yell and chase anyone with whom she disagreed.  That is never the way to change someone's mind about anything.  Maybe it hit too close to home for me in that people are immediately judging others rather than sincerely trying to understand differing perspectives in order to have discussions about our differences.  I did like that Mark changed his project to writing an essay about unity.

[Sakura12]

I'm glad Dan talked to Becky since she would have an understanding of what he's going through. Lecy is becoming the breakout in this reboot, last season I felt she was still trying to find her groove. This season she's a highlight. I loved her running in the background "let me get my coat" to go to the strip club. 

You could tell this one was supposed to have aired before Halloween. 

Everyone deals with grief differently, but would a support group really force someone to share on their first meeting? 

[andipandi]

This was a great episode. I agree they should have kept the order, as Dan's grief is so raw here. I also thought Becky's beer during her talk with Dan was foreshadowing.

I wish they wouldn't write Jacky to be so cringeworthy. I cringed at church, I cringed at the mall, although less. If you don't know the church practices, you shut up and follow along.

In fact, this episode was so tightly written and acted, I wondered if Roseanne dying was going to be in the plot all along.

Edited November 14, 2018 by andipandi

[Snow Apple]

I agree the show is really good this season and that Lecy have found her groove after being a bit stiff last season.

I hope they don't do too much politics. The show really shines when it's just about the family and their struggles and triumphs. The original show had political issues but it was about how it affected their lower middle class life. I hope this was just a one off. It was the one aspect I didn't like last season.

[tessaray]

While Becky and Dan had the best moments, I thought Michael Fishman did a fairly good job with DJ in this episode.  I do hope we find out how he and Geena ended up together. (Maybe two kids from Lanford bumped into each other on a military base far from home?) 

The mall scenes felt off and I wondered if the questions were edited. Though the one about property taxes and the arts and pretzel guy's response seemed pretty typical. I know he fits the "Vote No" contingent when library and school projects come up on the ballot in my area.