S03.E04: The Snowplow

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

A surprising announcement from one of the humans threatens to dissolve the group.

Original air date: 10/11/18

[Panopticon]

Okay, everyone... you need to show your ex your poetry.

Janet just can’t stop helping humans even when they don’t ask for it. 

[Wanda]

Hated it until the very last scene

And on a day that has already sucked, a not good Good Place made me feel like I was flicked into the nether regions

[Ailianna]

It wasn't as light-hearted, but it was classic everyone, and I thought it was necessary to show how their normal lives and personalities were pulling at them, and straining the group as well as the attempt to create a sabbatical from their lives, whcih is what this version of the study group was.  I think it was necessary and good.  Plus there's a part of me that really loves when Eleanor struggles with her baser instincts, and especially when her higher values manage to win, even if not immediately.  So I was very happy with this one.

[Linny]

Man, we snowplowed our way through a lot of time in this one. The snippets we saw of each time jump were a little too brief for me. The cupcake bit was nice, but I wish we'd gotten something meatier to show how the group had bonded. The heart and soul of The Good Place is clearly the camaraderie between the main gang, and I know they'll always forge a connection because we've seen it happen before, I just don't know that this episode illustrated that very well.

I do have to say, though, Simone is an excellent supporting member of the core group. I loved that her talk with Eleanor gave Eleanor the compassion she needed, while still allowing Simone to express frustration with Eleanor's behavior. If Eleanor is truly going to grow enough to earn a spot in the Good Place, then she has to be able to own her feelings and not deflect them in her typical self-destructive methods.

You could give me an entire spin-off show where Janet travels around revealing people's secrets and I'd be satisfied. The emphatic way she told that dude that his ex-wife still loved him was perfect. Imagine how good she'd be doing a Maury Povich-style paternity reveal.

Poor Larry Hemsworth, always one step behind his wildly successful and attractive brothers. Between Larry's inferiority complex and Tahani's rivalry with her sister, I'm really wondering who on the writing staff has the fucked up sibling dynamic serving as the genesis for these characters.

"I enjoy American football, I actually dated a player once. But he wasn't my type, so I set him up with my friend Gisele. Bünchden." "Yeah, we got it, we always get it." Hee. Never change, Tahani.

Not sure how Michael's going to talk his way out of everyone questioning what they just witnessed with him and Janet, but I'm curious to find out.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I liked it. There were a lot of funny moments. Larry Hemsworth makes an appearance and plans to change his last name after marrying Tahani. Heirbnb, Janet calling Jason "sweetcheeks," TMZed, Eleanor and her shrimp.

I was actually surprised that Eleanor didn't recognize Michael. I thought they were going somewhere with that.

The last scene was a great twist, especially for the fourth episode. I wonder how much Michael and Janet are going to tell the Brainy Bunch. That they died in another timeline? That they went to an experimental Bad Place? Are they going to get the memories of their past experiences back? Is someone else, like the Judge, going to come out of the portal? This is the kind of show that you wish you could binge watch.

[BoogieBurns]

I was stressed out the whole episode like Michael. Then they walk in on them opening the portal and it all comes together at the last second. Looking forward to the podcast tomorrow because I need to dissect this episode a bit. 

I think I might legit be into Simone.

1 minute ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I was actually surprised that Eleanor didn't recognize Michael. I thought they were going somewhere with that.

Oh, they clearly will now.

[PityFree]

 I had to main thoughts for this episode: 

1. The key must have other powers besides letting people go between the afterlife and earth and working as a phone to the judge. Does the frog part have its own powers? Hmmmmm...
2. Michael and Janet are going to have to figure out a way to kill all four of the Brainy Bunch at the same time once they earn enough points. They all originally died at the same time and that’s why they ended up in the Bad Place at the same time together. And  if they make it to The Good Place, it wouldn’t be The Good Place unless  they are all there together. ( maybe it will be some cool call back to the trolley problem and they’ll all die trying to sacrifice themselves for the good of the group.)  The writers could have a lot of fun thinking of ways to kill them all.

[thuganomics85]

I'm not saying they should actually do it, but I'd actually watch an entire episode of Eleanor and Simone debating who is better between Stone Cold Steve Austin and The Rock (my personal two cents?  The Rock.  Even before he became a big movie star, I always liked that he was willing to put less famous wrestlers over/sell and make them look good, and I thought he was stronger at playing both a babyface/good guy and a heel/bad guy.  And that's the end of my pro wrestling thoughts for the day!)

I can't believe that the whole "less famous Hemsworth" from last week wasn't simply a sight gag, and we've actually got Larry Hemsworth, the less famous of the bros, who is insecure and awkward, because while he might look like Ben Lawson, he still feels like he can't amount to Thor or Gale... err, Chris or Liam!  Hee!  I know Chris and Liam are probably too expensive, but since Luke does television (Westworld), I would love it if they somehow got him to cameo, and really show the dynamics between Larry and the rest of the Hemsworths!

Loving the Michael/Janet pair and how they worked together to try and fix things, but I'm glad that it is looking the entire group is going to be back together next week, and with the other four knowing something is up, since they've now seen the door to Purgatory.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if "Heir B&B" was actually a thing, if maybe in secret amongst all the 1% and other bigwigs.

I enjoyed this episode since Tahani was featured heavily, and as much as I love everyone, I think I can officially say that she's my favorite.  Jameela Jamil was a real fine here.

Is it sad that this show is actually making me want the Jacksonville Jaguars to win the Superbowl?  I usually could care less about football, but I want it to happen (especially since they were so close last time, but only thwarted by that damn team that includes Tahani's ex!)

Edited October 12, 2018 by thuganomics85

[Mockingbird]

I just love Eleanor so much. Even when she’s hurt and lashing out, she’s still trying to figure out how to become better. I totally get Michael risking everything to make sure she—and the rest of Team Cockroach, which I vastly prefer to the Brainy Bunch—gets into the actual good place. 

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, Linny said:

I do have to say, though, Simone is an excellent supporting member of the core group. I loved that her talk with Eleanor gave Eleanor the compassion she needed, while still allowing Simone to express frustration with Eleanor's behavior. If Eleanor is truly going to grow enough to earn a spot in the Good Place, then she has to be able to own her feelings and not deflect them in her typical self-destructive methods. 

 

It was so incredibly and pointedly insightful that I almost wondered if Simone was a celestial being.

1 hour ago, Linny said:

You could give me an entire spin-off show where Janet travels around revealing people's secrets and I'd be satisfied. The emphatic way she told that dude that his ex-wife still loved him was perfect. Imagine how good she'd be doing a Maury Povich-style paternity reveal.

1 hour ago, Panopticon said:

Okay, everyone... you need to show your ex your poetry.

Janet just can’t stop helping humans even when they don’t ask for it. 

 

I honestly expected that Janet and Michael were going to continue subsidizing all of their efforts to get the group to stay in Australia and keep the group dynamics the way they wanted by having Janet become a "psychic."

Quote

Poor Larry Hemsworth, always one step behind his wildly successful and attractive brothers. Between Larry's inferiority complex and Tahani's rivalry with her sister, I'm really wondering who on the writing staff has the fucked up sibling dynamic serving as the genesis for these characters.

42 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

I can't believe that the whole "less famous Hemsworth" from last week wasn't simply a sight gag, and we've actually got Larry Hemsworth, the less famous of the bros, who is insecure and awkward, because while he might look like Ben Lawson, he still feels like he can't amount to Thor or Gale... err, Chris or Liam!  Hee!  I know Chris and Liam are probably too expensive, but since Luke does television (Westworld), I would love it if they somehow got him to cameo, and really show the dynamics between Larry and the rest of the Hemsworths!

 

If you've ever seen Alan Tudyk and Nathan Fillion's Con Man, they keep inventing more and more fictional Hemsworth brothers. Finally, they have Liam McIntyre show up as Girth Hemsworth a missing Hemsworth who'd been on a walkabout for a decade.

Edited October 12, 2018 by HunterHunted
Autocorrect changed Girth to Garth

[phalange]

Michael and Janet's constant meddling was funny, though maybe not for the poor guy who found out his aunt is really his mother. Eleanor winning a lottery ticket helps her stay in Australia, but where's Jason getting the money? Is he still sleeping in dumpsters?

I wish we got to see more of the group bonding, but in the scene where they sing Happy Birthday to Chidi, the look on Eleanor's face was so sweet, I can't deal. I really do like Simone, but my love for Eleanor and Chidi is too strong.

Larry Hemsworth! "Fixing baby spines is just as important as acting!" made me lose it. Eleanor destroying the cake was a nice call back to the first season. The first time though, she was doing it mainly to save herself, and while her smashing this cake wasn't super mature, it's was her lashing out at the thought of being separated from people she cares about. 

I love that just when you think you know where the story's going, the writers throw a curve ball. When Michael was talking about sneaking back to reset the timeline, I figured that was going to be the cliffhanger, and then nope! The humans discover the portal! If Judge Gen was already as angry as she's ever been in her entire life (a.k.a the age of the entire universe) she's really not going to like this development.

Edited October 12, 2018 by phalange

[Melina22]

I just love this show. I keep catching myself smiling as I watch, and occasionally laughing out loud. I haven't done that with a show since Parks and Rec ended. 

[La Dee Da]

36 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

It was so incredibly and pointedly insightful that I almost wondered if Simone was a celestial being.

I’ve wondered that as well - that maybe she’s a Good Place agent monitoring Michael’s project. But then I think she’s too involved with Chidi to be an observer. 

Re the last scene, i’m not surprised by the reset, as they couldn’t keep Michael and Janet separate for too long, but I am curious how they’ll avoid revisiting past storylines.

I particularly liked TMZed and Blake Beartles tonight, as well as Tahani’s commiserations for Eleanor only winning 18k. 

[Dowel Jones]

3 hours ago, Linny said:

Never change, Tahani.

"$18,000?  Oh, better luck next time."

Speaking of which, the California Lottery is sitting at $548 million.  Help, Janet!!

[GaT]

I'm not enjoying this season as much as the previous two, I was kind of bored.

[arc]

Everything I said about the season premiere having too much meddling by Michael, but times 10.

[bros402]

I'm wondering if the group will get enough points to get into the Good Place, but then Gen will sentence Michael to mortality for his meddlin

[arc]

Larry’s schtick is funny but doesn’t seem to have a real motivation behind it. To me, that makes him way more of a joke machine than a real-seeming character. Though I think this is also true to some extent of everyone in Tahani’s circle, from her sister to her parents. But those people are really just there to set Tahani up for a joke, while I think Larry feels less real than he should.

[Helena Dax]

7 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

It was so incredibly and pointedly insightful that I almost wondered if Simone was a celestial being.

I honestly expected that Janet and Michael were going to continue subsidizing all of their efforts to get the group to stay in Australia and keep the group dynamics the way they wanted by having Janet become a "psychic."

If you've ever seen Alan Tudyk and Nathan Fillion's Con Man, they keep inventing more and more fictional Hemsworth brothers. Finally, they have Liam McIntyre show up as Girth Hemsworth a missing Hemsworth who'd been on a walkabout for a decade.

This got me thinking because if there are demons, there should be angels too, right? But I don't think we've heard a word about then, yet. This could be a future twist or something.

I wasn't feeling Janet this season because she's too human now, imo: I liked how unusual her reactions used to be. But I loved here the way she was trying to help other people.

Tahani's "Best luck next time" because Elinor had only won 18.000 $ had me rolling. 

But I guess I like this show better when the supernatural parts are going strong because  I was exremely glad when the Brainy Bunch saw The Door at the end of the episode. Can't wait to see what happens now! 

[Ailianna]

9 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Is it sad that this show is actually making me want the Jacksonville Jaguars to win the Superbowl?  I usually could care less about football, but I want it to happen (especially since they were so close last time, but only thwarted by that damn team that includes Tahani's ex!)

If that's sad, I'm sad with you.  I was so happy for Jason when they were doing so well last season!

8 hours ago, phalange said:

where's Jason getting the money? Is he still sleeping in dumpsters?

Where does Jason ever get money though?  It's not like he was gainfully employed or keeping a nice apartment in Jacksonville either.  I'm sure he's getting by the same way he always has.  Which might be preventing him from getting enough points...

3 hours ago, arc said:

Larry’s schtick is funny but doesn’t seem to have a real motivation behind it. To me, that makes him way more of a joke machine than a real-seeming character. Though I think this is also true to some extent of everyone in Tahani’s circle, from her sister to her parents. But those people are really just there to set Tahani up for a joke, while I think Larry feels less real than he should.

Basically he has the exact issue Tahani has though, in that he feels overwhelmed and overshadowed by his siblings, and that he isn't worthy in himself.  I think he's a good match for her in that regard, and that this is something she needs to deal with.  By helping Larry, she could help herself. He's there for her story, just like her sister and parents are.

[Amarsir]

1 minute ago, Ailianna said:

Where does Jason ever get money though?  It's not like he was gainfully employed or keeping a nice apartment in Jacksonville either.  I'm sure he's getting by the same way he always has.  Which might be preventing him from getting enough points...

That's one of my problems with how this season is going. Too much on the mechanics of the group and not enough actual character development. They did show us the tension between Eleanor's good and bad selves, but with Tahani, Chidi, and especially Jason we're supposed to just know that because they're together it must be working.

[Fukui San]

I have to say this season is not grabbing me yet, but I remain hopeful. Jameela said in the podcast that this was easily her favorite season, so we'll see what happens. Having it on Earth instead of metaphysical space makes you think of logistical questions that you wouldn't have thought of if they were still in the Neighborhood. They can just go off for a year and live in Australia? Michael and Janet can really set up shop and not be chased off? Do they have to eat now? Do they sleep?

Hopefully, by opening the door at the end it'll be an indication that we can leave Earth and go to a new status quo which isn't as beholden to real world issues.

[Smacky55]

I was pretty bored by this episode. There were a few good moments, like Tahani’s reaction to Eleanor’s lottery win, and the journalism department joke. 

One of the things that grated was Gen and her overdone hand gestures, a little of her goes a long way. Also Janet’s obsession with Jason is getting a little much now. 

I still will continue to watch every week for now. I did appreciate that right at the moment I was thinking “oh no they’re going to do the rebooting thing again,” they threw in the twist with the group seeing the portal. 

[Trillium]

I’m assuming Zac Pazzazzzz loaded Jason up with a ton of cash. 

 

Glad they didnt do another reboot. This shows knows what they’re doing, so I’m just along for the ride. 

[snowwhyte]

I don't like to be too nitpicky but I do struggle with the job, money and visa issues. You can get a one year tourist visa for Australia but you can't work so Eleanor saying she was broke and wanted to find a job irritated me. If Jason has a criminal record he might have been denied entry particularly if he couldn't show he had the funds to support himself. Jason's young enough for a working tourist visa but Americans can only stay for a year. If they're in Sydney that's even more expensive if they're not working. I know it shouldn't bother me in a show about people in the afterlife but they are usually good with details so it's more noticeable when there are logic flaws.

What did they do with their time for more than a year? Are they basically full time philosophy students now? I could see the study maybe taking a few months but more than a year? Plus Chidi thinks the next stage would be to replicate the study with more people. How many people would give up a year of their lives for that? 

[Fukui San]

4 minutes ago, snowwhyte said:

I don't like to be too nitpicky but I do struggle with the job, money and visa issues. You can get a one year tourist visa for Australia but you can't work so Eleanor saying she was broke and wanted to find a job irritated me. If Jason has a criminal record he might have been denied entry particularly if he couldn't show he had the funds to support himself. Jason's young enough for a working tourist visa but Americans can only stay for a year. If they're in Sydney that's even more expensive if they're not working. I know it shouldn't bother me in a show about people in the afterlife but they are usually good with details so it's more noticeable when there are logic flaws.

What did they do with their time for more than a year? Are they basically full time philosophy students now? I could see the study maybe taking a few months but more than a year? Plus Chidi thinks the next stage would be to replicate the study with more people. How many people would give up a year of their lives for that? 

Maybe they can find some Australians with near death experiences. Judging by their terrifying array of animal life, the country seems intent on killing its humans constantly, anyway.

[snowwhyte]

I know I had a few run ins with venomous snakes when I was in Australia. No near death experiences though.

[tominboston]

I loved the football references this week -- Jason discovered fellow Jaguars fans in Sydney and Tahani dated Tom Brady! But as usual I have to watch the episode again over the weekend. The dialogue on this show often moves so fast that I think I miss some of the extremely clever references that the writers throw in.

I do like the concept someone mentioned above that Simone could be an agent of the Good Place.  Anything seems to be plausible in this show, and it makes sense that whoever runs the Good Place might want to help save these flawed but basically decent humans from eternal damnation.

[RainbowBrite]

They are really losing me this season. I hope they throw in a sharp left turn that completely changes the dynamic of the season because right now I am bored and disappointed. Seasons one and two were just so great, and this is...blah. I agree with whomever above noted that Jameela Jamil saying this was her favourite season is the only thing that has kept me hanging on this week.

[Nellise]

I'm losing it too with this season. I was bored most of the episode with a few "heh"s at some of the jokes. Larry was so over the top needy I couldn't picture Tahani staying with him a full year so that whole plotline felt forced.

It feels like they're doing that sitcom thing as seasons go on where the characters lose their personality and just become one of their jokes. Jason would now and then make a Jaguars reference in the earlier seasons, but that's now all he is. Chidi has pretty much disappeared, Michael is simply obnoxious. I wasn't a fan of Janet being into Jason in the first place, but it seems like that's all her motivation is now and given that Janet is the best part whenever she's not pining over Jason it feels like she's being wasted. I felt like Eleanor with Tahani: "We get it, we always get it." Eleanor is still okay, but that's partly just how much I like Kristen Bell (it takes a lot for me to dislike her: see VM season 3).

Hopefully this is all some setup for future interesting stories and doesn't turn into a HIMYM where I can't rewatch any of it because it lost its way so badly at the end.

[Sakura12]

While there was some funny lines, Tahani realizing that 18k is a lot of money to us regular folks and her Heirbnb (which I could believe is real) I hope these episodes are just the set up to real show. Hopefully it starts next week now that they've seen the portal. 

I also like Eleanor being aware enough that she acted like an ass and was able to take the analysis of her character from Simone. 

[whiporee]

Tough room. 

I admire this show's bravery so much, because they aren't afraid to not show us things they've already shown us. We don't need to see everyone bond because we've already seen it. We don't need to see them grow together because we've already seen it -- they are making the assumption we've already watched 30 episodes, and we can assume they always get to together and always end up with the same dynamics. So as much as I miss the big philosophy questions we had in season one, or the hyperbolic lessons of season two (but that was just the Trolley Problem) I shouldn't need to see them again because i already have. They don't feel the need to appeal to the first-time viewer, because in their minds, the first-time viewer hasn't done the required reading for the class. That's brave. Likewise, there's nothing an audience would like more than to see Eleanor  decide to hold Chidi's birthday cake and sing, but we already have seen variations of that and we don't need to see it again, or to see Chidi and Simone have a real relationship, but we can just assume it based on what we do see and what we already have seen. The character's worlds have rebooted, but our viewing hasn't. So the montage all these scenes that would have been comforting and funny and pleasant to watch, and instead just push the story.  

And then we take another turn. Just brave. 

Everything made sense to me tonight -- Michael's an immortal being who literally has nothing else besides these four people and Janet. His desperation made sense. Janet's rationalizations made sense, too, because for all of her knowledge, she's not an immortal being. She's been around -- in her head -- since the last reboot. She's lovestruck, but she's  still young when compared with Michael, or even the humans. 

And now we're at a metaphysical conundrum, because now mortals have evidence of the afterlife. And that's a cliffhanger there, changing things up once again. 

[Amarsir]

2 hours ago, Fukui San said:

Having it on Earth instead of metaphysical space makes you think of logistical questions that you wouldn't have thought of if they were still in the Neighborhood. I have to say this season is not grabbing me yet, but I remain hopeful. Jameela said in the podcast that this was easily her favorite season, so we'll see what happens.

And the explanations are harder to handwave. Michael set up cameras all over so he could continue monitoring their progress? It's not impossible, but it feels like the writers giving us an answer so we wouldn't ask, which only creates more questions.

1 hour ago, RainbowBrite said:

I agree with whomever above noted that Jameela Jamil saying this was her favourite season is the only thing that has kept me hanging on this week.

I feel like the season must be back-weighted. They said Ep 7 is the clutch one and a lot of stuff gets reinterpreted. We've known since Team Cockroach that there would be a question of Michael's redemption. A couple episodes digging him a deeper hole could create a nice basis for later.

[cpcathy]

My favorite moments were Eleanor's conversation with Simone, and her exchange with Michael over the shrimp. I think Kristen Bell is underplaying Eleanor this season, her guard isn't up as much as previous seasons, so it would make sense. But she is playing her like a completely different person. Ted Danson is still killing it, as always.

[LBS]

I liked the episode more than others but I also agree with the criticisms.   Throughout this episode up to the portal cliff-hanger, I was thinking that this season arc would be Michael's growth.  To me, he is the most selfish character probably because he still has "demon" tendencies still lingering.   He is so intent on making these 4 people good that he doesn't care if he hurts others to get his way.  He even mentioned that if he changed the timeline only 11 people would die.  He's still learning about the collective good vs. the individual good.   It would be interesting to explore that and I wonder if they still will.

I also really, really wanted to hate Simone's character because much like Eleanor, I don't like my group being changed but she is a delight and she fits in so well with the cast!  

[Mabinogia]

8 minutes ago, LBS said:

I also really, really wanted to hate Simone's character because much like Eleanor, I don't like my group being changed but she is a delight and she fits in so well with the cast!  

me too. I almost want her to die so she can join them in the Good Place (should they make it, which, I mean, they have to, eventually, right?)

I can't wait to see what happens next. I love that this show isn't just the same as the last two seasons. I get why people used to sitcoms that just repeat the same storylines over and over would be disillusioned, but I am loving this season for just how different it is. I also admire how much storyline they can burn through. It would be easy to just keep them in the fake good place, playing out the same storylines and same jokes until everyone leaves the show because it's too predictable, but they are forging ahead into brave new worlds.

This ep brought us an amazing scene between Eleanor and Simone (LOVE HER!), Janet trying to pretty much talk Michael off the ledge and acknowledge that he needs to let go and trust the humans, which he doesn't, lol. And the other Hemsworth.

This show is still firing on all cylinders for me.

[cleo]

Yeah I'm not feeling this season. The basic characters are starting not to mske sense to me. What is the point Michael is trying to achieve? They get enough points to get into the good place? And then they can die? I've totally lost track why this matters so much to him.

I think bc it has always seemed strange to me that Michael flipped, they didnt show me enough to justify that change. I thought it was interesting this season they all reverted back except for Michael. Why not?

At the end, when he was like- this is all we have! It just sounded so desperate and I was like why does this matter to you so much?

So I feel like I'm in the minority with this one, but the overall motivation/point of what he and Janet are doing seem thin to me, so the rest falls kind of flat.

[Loandbehold]

14 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I actually wouldn't be surprised if "Heir B&B" was actually a thing, if maybe in secret amongst all the 1% and other bigwigs.

In the media thread there's a link to an AV Club article that answers your question.

 

5 hours ago, Ailianna said:

Basically he has the exact issue Tahani has though, in that he feels overwhelmed and overshadowed by his siblings, and that he isn't worthy in himself.  I think he's a good match for her in that regard, and that this is something she needs to deal with.  By helping Larry, she could help herself. He's there for her story, just like her sister and parents are.

Good point. But, I think you meant Hemsworthy.

 

3 hours ago, snowwhyte said:

Plus Chidi thinks the next stage would be to replicate the study with more people. How many people would give up a year of their lives for that?

As others have mentioned, in order to know what affect a near-death experience has on the brain, you would need to have MRIs (or was it CAT scans) taken before and after. How many people are willing to sign up for a study that includes a guaranteed near-death experiment? Just think of the Waiver Contract you'd have to sign.

 

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

I can't wait to see what happens next. I love that this show isn't just the same as the last two seasons. I get why people used to sitcoms that just repeat the same storylines over and over would be disillusioned, but I am loving this season for just how different it is. I also admire how much storyline they can burn through. It would be easy to just keep them in the fake good place, playing out the same storylines and same jokes until everyone leaves the show because it's too predictable, but they are forging ahead into brave new worlds.

I am definitely in the this season is too much like a regular sit-com camp. Taking Team Cockroach out of the after-life and bringing them back to Earth has led to many of the typical sit-com plots. Now, the show is still funnier than most sit-coms, and what the arts and props departments are doing is still amazing, being on Earth has taken something away for me.

 

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

This ep brought us an amazing scene between Eleanor and Simone (LOVE HER!), Janet trying to pretty much talk Michael off the ledge and acknowledge that he needs to let go and trust the humans, which he doesn't, lol. And the other Hemsworth.

All excellent points. Not to mention Ken Guroo (sold Janet the scratch-off ticket). And Blake Beartles.

I was glad for the final scene. Maybe they'll now be leaving Earth. Or, we might have to wait a few more episodes before that happens.

[albinerhawk]

1 hour ago, cpcathy said:

My favorite moments were Eleanor's conversation with Simone, and her exchange with Michael over the shrimp. I think Kristen Bell is underplaying Eleanor this season, her guard isn't up as much as previous seasons, so it would make sense. But she is playing her like a completely different person. Ted Danson is still killing it, as always.

I'm not sure if this is intentional or not, but if feels like KB's portrayal is building on what Eleanor has learned even while in the Bad Place over 800+ reboots. Now it could be saying that despite the reboots she has internalized her studies, and this will later be revealed. I do have a lot of trust with this production team. It could be just laziness in not wanting to go back to scratch. However much more likely it could be that we have fast forwarded through a lot of the last two years of Eleanor's life. First she attempted to become better on her own, and then the second year she was with the brainy bunch. She probably had a lot of self-improvement during that time. 

1 hour ago, cleo said:

Yeah I'm not feeling this season. The basic characters are starting not to mske sense to me. What is the point Michael is trying to achieve? They get enough points to get into the good place? And then they can die? I've totally lost track why this matters so much to him.

I think bc it has always seemed strange to me that Michael flipped, they didnt show me enough to justify that change. I thought it was interesting this season they all reverted back except for Michael. Why not?

At the end, when he was like- this is all we have! It just sounded so desperate and I was like why does this matter to you so much?

So I feel like I'm in the minority with this one, but the overall motivation/point of what he and Janet are doing seem thin to me, so the rest falls kind of flat.

I've seen this theory floated that the end game here is that the entire points system is going to be reevaluated, but yeah Michael's short game is to get this group of four into the Good Place. Since they are already dead in his mind anyway, he has a more eternal focus beyond their earthly lives.

[tennisgurl]

I love Simone, and I increasingly suspect that she might be an agent of the Good Place. I mean, we dont know much about the real Good Place and how it works, so maybe they have a vested interest in Team Cockroach as well? Maybe they want to start giving humans a chance, and this is their excuse to show that its possible? I actually think that would be a good way to end the show, with the system being reworked so that people get more chances to change and be good. 

My biggest fault with this season is that since it takes place on Earth, it means we get less of the fun and wacky Bad Place hijinks, and taking place on Earth, you have to actually start thinking about the logistics of things. Like, how Jason and Eleanor are still living with so little money, how their visas are working or how long they are allowed to stay in the country, and stuff like that. Other than that though, I am still loving that show, and I am excited to see what happens next. I hope that Team Cockroach can get some of their memories back, so they remember Janet and Michael, as I miss their whole dynamic a lot. 

Poor Larry Hemsworth, a lowly pediatric surgeon, unlike his famous and successful actor brothers! "Fixing babies spines is just as important as acting!" Heir BnB could totally be a thing, I wouldn't at all be surprised. Tahani has been on fire all season, and not in a Bad Place kind of way! "Oh, from context, I am guessing thats considered a large amount of money."

I wonder if a part of Michael's obsession with saving the humans is that he sees himself in them as well, and if there is hope for them, then theres hope for him? I mean, Michael still has some demon tendencies (just a teeny bit of arson!) but he really is trying to be a better person/otherworldly demonic being, even if it outside of his very nature. But, he also was convinced that Team Cockroach were all bad by their very natures, and saw them get better, so he feels that if they can find redemption, he can too. Plus, of course, Michael has never really cared about anyone in his millions of years of existence, so his way of helping might be a bit screwed up. Really, he is doing pretty well, all things considered. 

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, Loandbehold said:

Blake Beartles

OMG how could I forget about Blake Beartles!!!

 

1 hour ago, Loandbehold said:

I was glad for the final scene. Maybe they'll now be leaving Earth. Or, we might have to wait a few more episodes before that happens.

I think one thing this show does well is move on quickly. Being on Earth hasn't been my favorite thing, though I appreciate that it was different and I like the way the show handled it, but it does look like they might end up somewhere else very soon. It's like with Trevor. Right around the time he is clearly overstaying his welcome, he's gone. And the reboots, right when we started to worry that we'd get a repeat of season one in season two they plow through about 800+ reboots in one ep and move on. Now, we've had our time on Earth and it looks like it's time to move on.

 

12 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I love Simone, and I increasingly suspect that she might be an agent of the Good Place. I mean, we dont know much about the real Good Place and how it works, so maybe they have a vested interest in Team Cockroach as well? Maybe they want to start giving humans a chance, and this is their excuse to show that its possible? I actually think that would be a good way to end the show, with the system being reworked so that people get more chances to change and be good. 

This is where I am leaning as well. If there are Bad place architects and demons there must be Good place architects and angels. The judge and gate keeper being neutral, with possibly other neutral characters.

They can't really go back to a fake Good Place, that would just be a rehash and this show is too good for that. They might go more in depth into the Bad Place, but I doubt it. So they either go into some neutral zone (where the Judge and the gate are) or to the Good Place. Either of those options excites me because I do think we are about to go somewhere new and that always gets me excited because this show is great at world building.

[Affogato]

There are lots of MRIs of people who haven't had near death experiences, so if all of the people who do have near death experiences have something notable that isn't on the other ones, statistically speaking, you've found something. However the real question may be whether moral philosophy, the study of, can change your brain. Chidi should have MRIs of before and after a year of study. 

I keep on worrying about what happens when Janet goes through her next printer queue experience. Loved Jason's jaguar bodypaint. 

They are still thinking of the point system, where Eleanor is losing points for blaming her farts on her chair, so we still haven't got to what i think may be the meat of the issue, which is the point system is inherently flawed. They may be back doored to the good place and find it is no more satisfactory than the bad place. 

[arc]

3 hours ago, whiporee said:

I admire this show's bravery so much, because they aren't afraid to not show us things they've already shown us. We don't need to see everyone bond because we've already seen it. […] The character's worlds have rebooted, but our viewing hasn't. So the montage all these scenes that would have been comforting and funny and pleasant to watch, and instead just push the story. 

I disagree with you here. For me, the show is compelling on an intellectual level for what it posits and asks about the afterlife, and it's compelling on an emotional level because the characters care about each other.

But Michael can't show he cares to the humans because he's undercover. Eleanor openly cared in this episode (masked by her defense mechanisms, but still) Jason and Tahani and Chidi didn't. And Janet cared about Michael, a little.

It ended up feeling hollow -- too much plot, too little genuine emotion.

[Chaos Theory]

Wow tough group.  I guess I will stand alone thinking this show continues to be all kinds of hilarious and one of the few comedies that continues to impress me.   I love the fact that these characters continue to be who they are but are desperately trying to be the best version of themselves but wrenches keep getting thrown into their continued development as good people.  They need each other and if the Chidi’s project ends how will Michael and Janet keep them together.  As much fun as the afterlife was the show would have gotten stale rehashing the same problem over and over again.  Now in the real world their are actual stakes which I find interesting.

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, cleo said:

Yeah I'm not feeling this season. The basic characters are starting not to mske sense to me. What is the point Michael is trying to achieve? They get enough points to get into the good place? And then they can die? I've totally lost track why this matters so much to him.

I think bc it has always seemed strange to me that Michael flipped, they didnt show me enough to justify that change. I thought it was interesting this season they all reverted back except for Michael. Why not?

At the end, when he was like- this is all we have! It just sounded so desperate and I was like why does this matter to you so much?

So I feel like I'm in the minority with this one, but the overall motivation/point of what he and Janet are doing seem thin to me, so the rest falls kind of flat.

I think Michael, like Eleanor, hasn't had a lot of  connections with others, demonic or not, and really cares about these people. He wants to save them like he didn't want to marbleize Janet that time when it was an option. 

Everyone went back to the point in time where they were killed and started over from that point.

The equivalent for Michael would be for him to go back to the beginning of the good place and this never happened. He retains all the memories, including the many reboots that the rest of them have forgotten. He has had a lot of time to get to know the four people. 

[Affogato]

5 minutes ago, arc said:

I disagree with you here. For me, the show is compelling on an intellectual level for what it posits and asks about the afterlife, and it's compelling on an emotional level because the characters care about each other.

But Michael can't show he cares to the humans because he's undercover. Eleanor openly cared in this episode (masked by her defense mechanisms, but still) Jason and Tahani and Chidi didn't. And Janet cared about Michael, a little.

It ended up feeling hollow -- too much plot, too little genuine emotion.

I think Eleanor is their heart, she is the one who needs the group together as a group while they are on earth. the others did in the 'good place' but they don't on earth --Chidi has Simone and a new batch of students, after all--so it makes sense to me that the others aren't as interested in keeping the philosophy circle together. 

However I got Tahani's excitement at having found Larry and Chidi's excitement with the study and Michaels increased desperation, and so on. I thought there was plenty of emotion. 

I wonder if we will find out how Mindy is doing with the wind chimes?

[iMonrey]

Quote

I'm not enjoying this season as much as the previous two, I was kind of bored.

Yeah . . . there's just something off about this season. I'm not really feeling it either. I get a few chuckles here and there, but something is missing. I think it's lost the charm and whimsy of the first two seasons because they're all alive and on earth again. 

The Larry Hemsworth gag was pretty funny, but overall I'm not sure where they're going with this story anymore. 

The entire NBC line-up is just tanking in the ratings. Football can't help, but it's 0.8 across the board for these shows. Ouch.

Edited October 12, 2018 by iMonrey

[whiporee]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

she is the one who needs the group together as a group while they are on earth. the others did in the 'good place' but they don't on earth --Chidi has Simone and a new batch of students, after all--so it makes sense to me that the others aren't as interested in keeping the philosophy circle together. 

However I got Tahani's excitement at having found Larry and Chidi's excitement with the study and Michaels increased desperation, and so on. I thought there was plenty of emotion. 

Taking the deep dive off this, because even though we've had limited exposure to them this season, I think they all have shown real growth: 

In order to say that, though, we have to look at what got these people to the bad place. The only thing we have to go off is Gen's test, so I'm going to assume what she said was canon. 

According to Gen's test, Tahani's flaw was that she cared to much about the reactions of others, and she made all her decisions on that fact. She's now is engaged to the unfamous -- the Hems-worthless -- brother. That shows growth

Jason was impulse control. He's been studying philosophy for a year -- wasn't there even a scene of him reading on his own?

Chidi was inability to make a decision. Not only has he made a decision about Simone, he's made a decision about his thesis, and he's willing to decide to take a break from this study. Old Chidi would have been moribund as soon as Eleanor expressed wanting to stay with the project. 

Eleanor is trickier, because we never heard Gen say what her test was. She has self-assigned it selfishness, but I don't think that's what it is. I think it's her unwillingness to connect with others. And she's clearly gotten past that, at least in this group. 

So you could say Michael's experiment has worked, and with no prodding beyond the original getting them all together. I think Gen will be in a philosophical tough place next week. First, because now they know about the afterlife, and second, because they passed her test. 

That should be interesting to watch. 

It also sets up the question as to what the best outcome for everyone is. Do we want them togo back to Earth and live a better version of their lives? Or be dead and get to the Good Place. That's the question this year has risen for me -- what do I really want for these characters? And I still don't know. 

[Bruinsfan]

1 hour ago, arc said:

Eleanor openly cared in this episode (masked by her defense mechanisms, but still) Jason and Tahani and Chidi didn't.

I think they did to a degree, but not as much as Eleanor. Chidi and Tahani have more going on in their professional and personal lives, and Jason has... a good season for the Jaguars? So the study and the new friendships they've formed aren't their top priorities. But they clearly did value the time they've spend together, enough to be enthusiastic about the idea of annual reunions to keep in touch.