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S06.E00: Joseph's Wedding

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2 hours ago, ariel said:

My 50 + year old sister in law still refers to her mother as "mommy".  I think it's creepy.  My mother would look at me side ways if I still did that at my age.

I only know of 2 people who are 50 and 63 who say mommy and daddy and I agree with you it is creepy.

I said mumma and dad as a small child and then it was mom and dad in elementary school.  I think the other kids would have laughed at anyone saying mommy.  Mother was only used when, as a teen, you were embarrassed or humiliated.

Is there a Josiah?  Wasn't he the one JimBob was mean to?

I agree that Joe looked like Charlie Brown with the hair.  Just cut if off for it is not covering anything and only brings more attention to the balding.

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1 hour ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

He said he got hit in the face with a broomball or something a few days earlier. 

Sadly, it looks like Joe is not going to make the Olympic broomball team.

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3 hours ago, Janarella said:

Can anyone ID the sorta handsome dark-haired guy hanging around the groomsmen dressing area? He was not in the wedding party, he acted shiftily around the camera, and he had a cellphone permanently attached to his hand. If mystery guy isn't already married, I'm calling a Jana courtship right now!

I thought he was the ring rappeler (joes friend from Alert) but I'm not watching again to double check. 

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Great advertising for the sacchariny sweet wedding dress 'designer'. She can't even sew on a ruffle properly. Kendra seemed to take each incident in stride. No bridezilla there. Kendra's nervous go-to phrase is I love you. If I love you and kiss were drinking game words we'd all be sloshed. 

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7 hours ago, sheshark said:

Joy went from a pretty (although messy) bride to a frump in 3 1/2 months.  Why the glasses, Joy.  And the awful shoes on everyone except Kendra, as well as Jana and Jinger.  Those two looked like they were from another place entirely, just so gorgeous.

I was impressed that Kendra even chose to wear shoes. Jill went barefoot.

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7 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

This is actually officially numbered Episode 13. There are Episodes 7-12 out there for us next "season." 

I was going by the on-screen description from DirecTV. After the season is over, I will go back and edit all the titles because they changed up the season number again. (I fixed all the episodes earlier this year, and when I looked a month ago this current crop was listed as season 6, or something like that. After I fixed the previous seasons/episodes according the the website earlier.)  TLC...I have many unsavory and unkind words for that network. I would really appreciate it if they could make up their minds.

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Thank the Good Lord that Jana is a part of that family. Who would’ve ever thought to bring a sewing machine to the church! Did “Renee” do the dress? Shame on her for doing a crappy job then not helping in fixing it. And those shoes for the ladies! My “Mommy” would’ve had a fit if we looked like that on the stage.

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This is the first wedding where it seemed legitimately odd not to see Josh for some reason.  Maybe it was because Joseph was Josh's only buddy if I am remembering correctly?

Its not that I want to see Josh, it just seemed odd.

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Was that Jackson sitting in the front pew with one of his little sisters? He must be 13 by now, and still looks around 10? I am beginning to think there is maybe something wrong with him, that he is always with his younger sisters and never any of his brothers? He couldn't have at least been an usher? Or maybe he was and I just missed it. I hope he had some part in the wedding like all of his brothers seemed to.

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Joy looked horrible.  She was most definitely not just 3.5 months pregnant. Do you think the pregnancy has affected her eyesight? Maybe that's why she wore the glasses. I don't think she wears contacts, but who knows?

Kendra's "mommy" looks as though she could be one f the older Duggar girls!  As for Kendra's dress malfunction, didn't someone say that the ruffles from her "mommy's" dress was just stuck on? Stitch-witchery, perhaps? 

I think Josh and Derrick were probably there, just not shown on camera.

Butterfly kisses was a weird, weird selection to play, but hen again, there was no father-daughter dance at the reception (with REAL hot food you Duggar losers).

This seems to be the first of the Duggar weddings in which the bride walked down the isle to the wedding march and not a religious hymn...

It will be interesting to watch Joe and Kendra grow up and Joy grows out.....

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I slowed the DVR during the church scenes. I think Derrick was sitting on the same row as Ben’s mom.  Ben was sitting in the 2nd row with Spurge and Jeremy and Austin. Ben’s mom was sitting behind him with a baby whom I assume was Henry. Derrick was sitting down the pew from her on the aisle with Sammy.  When the ceremony began Ben’s mom was gone, I assume Henry got fussy. Then by the time the ceremony was over, Ben was gone. Spurge must have gotten fussy, too. 

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Did anyone watch closely enough to recall the pastors speech - elegantly given from his phone? 879k was what - the cost of raising her? Bc I call BS on that given that meals and housing a kid in an existing home ain't that expensive. And let's be real you're marrying her off at 18, not paying for her to go to college and med school. Any other "costs" mentioned?

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The cost was meant as a joke. He specifically mentioned ‘just for food and clothing’

The ruffle was sort of stuck or basted on as they thought younger daughters might want to use it too. But, that didn’t hold. 

Edited by mythoughtis
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Oddly enough not every sibling WANTS to be a member of the wedding party. I was asked to be in my twin sister's wedding and declined because we had some incredibly rude relatives still alive at the time and I was feeling very self-conscious about my weight and I knew that if Aunt Alice came up to me in my periwinkle chiffon and cheap satin tent and asked, "Why are you so fat?", that punches would have flown. For whatever reason it's not everyone's cup of tea. Personally I think it's a huge waste of cash to buy a dress that you CAN'T wear again, but that's just me. It's an honor, I suppose. 

Kendra's continuous giggling was annoying. She clearly knows no other way to express herself and her emotions than to giggle. She definitely is barely 19 years old. I'm sure with time she will mature. 

The father of the bride's speech was sadly unoriginal. I've heard it many times, so while it may be indeed true, the sentiment isn't quite the same.

"Butterfly Kisses" - if that doesn't scream out that the bride is too damn immature to be marrying, I don't know what does. 

I felt like Kendra should have been dropped off at college to live in the dorm and experience life away from mom and dad, not be making a lifetime commitment to be a helpmeet and breeding machine. 

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So Father Kendra gives Joe a full on hug (not even a Man Hug, you know, with the slapping on the back so it doesn't feel good to touch another man). But his own daughter only gets a side hug.

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11 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

Joy is either one of those who gains a ton of weight in all the wrong places or she and Austin better have a good announcement planned for their 12lb "preemie".     Speaking of pregnancy weight poor Anna, even her wrists looked swollen, I felt sorry for her having to stand up there the whole ceremony.  I'm sure they asked did she want to but I'm also sure that even if it was uncomfortable Anna is too "sweet" to tell them No.

Spotted Ben, Jer and Austin in a row behind Mechelle and JB but where was Derrick, was he even at the wedding?  

I was just about to comment on the refreshing lack of Dill-lards in this episode lol

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I hated Kendra's dress. It started falling apart and Jana had to sew it!!?!? What about Ms. Renee wouldn't that have been her job?

All the girls need to cut a good 12-18 inches off their hair. None of them looked flattering with those mops on their head.....looking at you Jessa.

MeChelle kissing on Joe like she was never going to see him again......very strange because she doesn't show much love for all the other kids.

What happened to the flowers? Perhaps no one paid the bill and the florist didn't show? Questions so many questions.

Annnnddddd Joyless is huge at 3 1/2 months. 

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1 hour ago, JillyMuffin Duggar said:

Oddly enough not every sibling WANTS to be a member of the wedding party. I was asked to be in my twin sister's wedding and declined because we had some incredibly rude relatives still alive at the time and I was feeling very self-conscious about my weight and I knew that if Aunt Alice came up to me in my periwinkle chiffon and cheap satin tent and asked, "Why are you so fat?", that punches would have flown.

Ugh. I know this feeling all too well.  I'm sorry.  :(

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I am a southerner and I know many adults, of both sexes, who call their father Daddy.  I can't think of a single person (except Loretta Lynn) who calls their mother Mommy, but Mama is used a lot. 

I just can't get over the fact that these two go from their very first kiss EVER to going all the way within a few hours.  

Which one of the Duggar boys (who I can't tell apart except for JD and Joe) did we think was gay?  And if Jana is gay, I think she and Laura should become wedding planners.  Hell, Jana brought a SEWING MACHINE to a wedding, that's some thinking outside of the box right there.

I do have to give kudos to Kendra for being so chill.  "Oh, my dress is falling apart....teeheeteeheeteehee"   That giggle, it's like she's at one big slumber party.

Edited by Angeltoes
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Josiah does the Mechelle/Jill bug eyed smile for pictures, check out his holding the face for the photographer.  So fake.  Why do I watch this crap.

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1 minute ago, woodscommaelle said:

Ugh. I know this feeling all too well.  I'm sorry.  :(

Thank you. Fortunately since then I've gone down in weight and then back up and have realized that while I PHYSICALLY feel better when I'm fit and smaller, MENTALLY it has nothing to do with body size. I'm still thankful I didn't stand up in her wedding because it just wasn't something I wanted to do, but today Aunt Alice wouldn't have me shrinking and crying, she'd have me telling her off in the sweetest way possible that at least I don't look like an emu. 

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Mechelle telling Joe just before going down the aisle, "I started thinking of this moment from the time we knew you were a boy" or some kinda crap like that. First off her hair looked greasy and like she had used black shoe polish for the color job....but who thinks of their child getting married at that point in their life......geesh. 

Edited by Whyyouneedaname · Reason: spelling
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1 hour ago, Quof said:

So Father Kendra gives Joe a full on hug (not even a Man Hug, you know, with the slapping on the back so it doesn't feel good to touch another man). But his own daughter only gets a side hug.

Ahh yes, don't want to "stir up desires that cannot be righteously fulfilled" between people of both sexes, yet oddly enough they don't think that Joe and/or Pastor Speechonmyphone would get turned on. Apparently they don't realize that maybe Joshy and David Waller were not just having "manly fellowship" when they were wrestling in the mud that time.

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49 minutes ago, sheshark said:

Josiah does the Mechelle/Jill bug eyed smile for pictures, check out his holding the face for the photographer.  So fake.  Why do I watch this crap.

There is something about Josiah that makes me wish someone would punch him in the face.  

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2 minutes ago, Abmis said:

There is something about Josiah that makes me wish someone would punch him in the face.  

Perhaps it has something to do with last night's cutesy stunt with the guy rappelling in with the ring to save his ass? It was so cheesy, these people don't have any sense of humor.

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I thought Kendra's parents were adorable.  Really young though to have a 19 year old, but I'm guessing they must've gotten married at 19 too.  Her dad was witty and sweet and able to hold it together which is an accomplishment when it's your daughter getting married. 

Did the purple peonies ever arrive?  It looked like the wedding designer gave up and just went with clippings from around the church grounds.  Its got to be hard to design a backdrop for the large stage, but I think the "weeds" that she's been inspired by twice now need to go.

I liked the petal drop for their first kiss, it gave them an element of privacy I suppose.  Why these kids can't kiss beforehand is ridiculous.

I thought the show ended ubruptly with very little commentary from Duggars.

Kendra's dress was pretty and at 19 I can see her thinking stick on seaming would work for attaching her mom's dress.  Luckily Jana is always prepared.

Are Joe and Kendra living above the garage?  He mentioned that they would be right next door to the compound?

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 What was noticeable to me was that Joseph got a full hug from his future father in law while moments before getting side hugs from him own parents. 

Kendra has that fundie father daughter bond - ugh. A first look with your father?? Playing Butterfly Kisses at the altar once you're already married? I know he hadn't pronounced them married but they had said their vows and exchanged rings by then. Though at least he didn't kiss the bride before Joseph could. Hopefully there's nothing truly creepy going on and we can chalk it up to the fact that if her parents are even 40, they had her at age 20 and all sort of grew up together. I honestly hope that they become involved parents in Joseph's life bc they do seem to be good parents and lord knows he could use someone who wants to love him, guide him, and spoil him with his favorite foods once in a while -- since his parents don't want to.

Is it possible that Joseph is closer with his siblings than his married sisters purported to be? I'm surprised that he wrote letters to his siblings - even his sisters. And when they were sitting around before the wedding -- the joking between the brothers seemed real, not like the girls' fake gushing and not mean sprited like I recall when Josh was on the scene. I wonder if Joe and JD stepped up to be the big brothers in that family once it became known that Josh was molesting the sisters and then cheating on Anna.

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Just starting to watch...that boys room looks like it belongs in a camp bunkhouse.  Triple decker bunks, very little room.  No privacy there!  And upthread someone reported that a brother reported that Joseph would be "next door."  Maybe he and Kendra get the pool house.

I'm sure Kendra meant just that when looking forward to the kiss.  She is so young, anticipating the sex part must be terrifying for her.

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Pastor Handsome Man can full hug Joe, but Jim Bob can’t? I was trying so hard to keep up with these little rules ... I’m lost. Do they kiss their children? Not sure we ever even see that. Their heads would blow up with my group. We’re kissers. With friendly lip pecks being the norm between friends and family. 

I wanted to hug poor Charlie Brown (seriously Joe, just buzz it and call it a day) when he cried at the altar. He’s such a sweet kid. Kendra felt like a child bride to me, and I wasn’t all that condortable. Joy was so randy that it didn’t seem as weird. These two are truly children. But Kendra does seem really sweet and almost normal with the love from and to her parents (alright it was over the top, but at least she seems joyous). That’s something that’s always off with the Duggars.

Derick was in one shot behind Mary, but he and Jill really hit the cutting room floor. I kept looking and could barely even find Jill. Jana got a ton of camera time - are they really pushing for a beau? The guy in all black with a beard was quite handsome, but I think he always had a chick next to him. Jana looked a lot like Jill with her hair pulled back like that  I never noticed before.

Jinger still got the deal of the century with her guy. Jeremy is the only one of this bunch who seems like a man, and she breezes in much more independently and maturely than the other brides. Jessa, who I still like because a not sweet Duggar daughter is pretty cool, can’t even buy a pair of shoes these days? Come on, she could get something cute at her beloved thrift shops for a few bucks. She never takes off those brown sandals.

Both twins seem almost normal to me. Hot little Jer is starting to lose hair too, damnit, but he looked pretty hot in a suit and has a slightly different look than all the others.

Ok, now onto this physical contact fuckery. I got married young, 21, and felt a little traumatized the first time I was with my husband alone and not going back home (we didn’t live together first). And I had lived away at college, kissed a guy for the first time in a Mexico disco at 15, and had taken a few laps sexually! How in the hell do you talk yourself into this overnight adjustment of going from nothing to the whole shebang (so to speak)?  I guess - God. I certainly never thought about my kids getting married when they were born. In fact I played it a little too alpha mom with no gal being good enough for my son. 

Whew, too many observations and I didn’t even get to Joy! When would they have ever been alone to have sex? She’s always been short and stocky, maybe she’s just hanging around eating all the food she didn’t get enough of at home.

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Who was the guy who walked in with Joseph in the morning - in the green t shirt, handsome guy. He's different than the guy in all black in the grooms room bc green t shirt guy was clean shaven. I saw and wondered if Joseph had a few actual friends and wondered if that guy would be best man - though it turned out Josiah was best man. The guy who rapelled down with the ring was a friend from ALERT and Joseph did go to college in Tenn for one semester -- so here's hoping he has a few non family guys that he can hang with once in a while.

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If I were superstitious, the power going out at my wedding just before the "I now present to you..." would freak me out. As it was, though, they did get a few beautiful candlelit moments.

 

"Butterfly Kisses" is a the grossest song ever written by the hand of man. It puts the "die" in "fundie."

 

Poor Joe. He mawwied her with "this wing." I was afwaid he was about to lose his shit entirely and say "wang."

 

I am gay and even I know Pastor Caldwell is hot as all hell.

Edited by Petrichor · Reason: Spellingz
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I just keep replaying (been a slow day lol) Jana fixing Joe's boo boo on his nose, she truly cares for her siblings on a motherly level. I believe she really misses the ones that marry and move out like a real mother does, I know it probably lightens the load so to speak but none the less I think she has that bond that when one is gone she feels the void. 

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2 hours ago, cereality said:

 What was noticeable to me was that Joseph got a full hug from his future father in law while moments before getting side hugs from him own parents. 

Kendra has that fundie father daughter bond - ugh. A first look with your father?? Playing Butterfly Kisses at the altar once you're already married? I know he hadn't pronounced them married but they had said their vows and exchanged rings by then. Though at least he didn't kiss the bride before Joseph could. Hopefully there's nothing truly creepy going on and we can chalk it up to the fact that if her parents are even 40, they had her at age 20 and all sort of grew up together. I honestly hope that they become involved parents in Joseph's life bc they do seem to be good parents and lord knows he could use someone who wants to love him, guide him, and spoil him with his favorite foods once in a while -- since his parents don't want to.

Is it possible that Joseph is closer with his siblings than his married sisters purported to be? I'm surprised that he wrote letters to his siblings - even his sisters. And when they were sitting around before the wedding -- the joking between the brothers seemed real, not like the girls' fake gushing and not mean sprited like I recall when Josh was on the scene. I wonder if Joe and JD stepped up to be the big brothers in that family once it became known that Josh was molesting the sisters and then cheating on Anna.

I don't know in previous episodes at least 3 sisters raved over Joe like he was the best thing ever.  Jinger, Jessa and Joy all seem like Joe is their favorite brother.

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19 hours ago, flyingdi said:

I can say with all sincerity, out of all the Duggars and Duggar adjacent,  Joe and Kendra seem like very pleasant people.  Exciting?  No, but very pleasant.

ITA.  Kendra's incessant tittering would make me crazy after awhile, but Joe seems like a good-natured sort, and very unlike Joshley.  I don't foresee scandal with these two.

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5 hours ago, riverblue22 said:

Just starting to watch...that boys room looks like it belongs in a camp bunkhouse.  Triple decker bunks, very little room.  No privacy there!  And upthread someone reported that a brother reported that Joseph would be "next door."  Maybe he and Kendra get the pool house.

I'm sure Kendra meant just that when looking forward to the kiss.  She is so young, anticipating the sex part must be terrifying for her.

I truly hope that not all of these fundie couples go straight from their first kiss to sex within a couple hours. At least a few must take it a bit slower.

Edited by DangerousMinds
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Ratings:  1.428 M viewers and a .38 rating.

The first showing of a wedding isn't what it used to be, but gets them a little bump.  

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The bridesmaids' photos show a very pregnant Anna. I don't remember seeing her walk down the aisle. Is it possible Josh was in the wedding and walked with Anna?  And the filming was edited and he was carefully left out of a handful of photos?

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I thought Mullet looked better than normal.  At least her boobs didn't look like they could poke someone's eye out.  But the shoes...HOW in the name of all that's holy can she think those black clunkers go with a floor-length dress?  It seemed odd that Kendra had to go greet her instead of vice versa.  Actually, that's normal for Mullet but weird for anyone else.

Poor Cinderjana having to fix the bride's dress.  Didn't Miss Renee tweet something about adding that layer of her mother's dress at the last minute?  Can't believe she ironed it on.  Unless you're on Project Runway and you've got 10 minutes left, there's no excuse for that.  I really disliked the bottom half of Kendra's dress.  Reminded me of a bunch of tulle napkins stapled onto the skirt.  The top half would have been infinitely more flattering with a modest scoop neck. 

The boys room looked disgusting.  Thank goodness we don't have smell-o-vision because you know that room is ripe.  Speaking of boys, I didn't recognize Justin until they put his name on the screen.  His hair wasn't very Duggar-ish.  Future rebel, perhaps?

It felt like they were trying to avoid showing Anna.  Even when she was fixing the veil they cut her out of the shot.  Wonder if it's because she's so obviously pregnant and they don't want to remind anyone that she went back to Josh?  Good call TLC, no one wants to be reminded that she's had sex with that pasty, revolting waste of humanity.

Those bouquets were a floppy, flaccid, floral fail.  The leaves flapping in the wind were so distracting when the girls were coming down the aisle.

Please, please, PLEASE tell me that they're not going to spend next season on Joe and Kendra's wedding prep.  I can't even see that being interesting enough to snark on.  Was a little surprised they didn't announce Joy's pregnancy during the commercial.  She'll have had the kid before we find out she's pregnant in show time.  Based on the way she looks, we don't have too long to wait.

5 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

Joe became Elmer Fudd...that wrascally Kendwab...I dwo, huh huh huh

I had a Princess Bride flashback. 

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19 hours ago, SuzyLee said:

Okay, we still have 10 minutes left and I am very finished with the giggles every two minutes.  May the good Lord lay it on her heart to fix that goddamn laugh. 

You are my Internet win of the day!

I have never heard a wedding officiant announce that while the couple is busy lighting the unity candle, he’ll be signing the wedding license. Huh?

And I can only hope that one day the bridesmaids will learn to wear the same damn color and style of shoes!

I’ve never seen it done like Kendra and her bridesmaids did, but I have seen pictures of first looks between brides/bridesmaids in addition to fathers/brides. The ones I’ve seen are very sweet as I thought the moment between Kendra and her dad was.

That ring stunt was beyond stupid. It was as bad as the stunt John David pulled when his piece ‘o shit older brother got married.

If Joy was only 3.5 months when the wedding took place then I’m a trapeze artist.

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These poor kids  - so many of them have terribly painful and inflamed looking acne.  A few of them quite young, too - with angry, red spots (I couldn't tell if they were young J'Duggars, or M'Duggars - I can't tell the littles apart).  I'm sure it's much to do with their terrible diets/hygiene/filthy mattresses and pillows, but I also know it can just sometimes...be that way, and there's not a lot to do about it without expensive Dermo intervention, which I'm sure Ma and Pa aren't about to spring for.  No snark here, just legit sympathy.

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any body count how many candles on the pulpit/alter?  Was that supposed to be romantic or what? I guess people could grab one when the power went out . speaking of which church didn't have a generator? I guess now the community knows where NOT to go in am inclement (flood, hurricane, tornado, etc) weather situation . 

Edited by sATL
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So weird how when they were asked how they felt about the wedding, both Joe and Kendra talked about looking forward to the kiss.  Makes you think they want to get married just so they can kiss.  They do know there is more to it than that, right?  And I just cannot imagine NEVER kissing someone - anyone - and then having sex a few hours later, especially at age 19.  Yikes! Usually there is a natural, timely progression from first kiss to the final deed.  They may think they have a "pure" image but to me they all come across as sex-starved.

Jim-Bob and Michelle having "the talk" with Joseph just minutes before the ceremony.  Um, wouldn't it have been better to have that talk days if not weeks before the wedding?  What if he had questions?  Hopefully there was something more that they just didn't show on the TV show.

Kendra's laugh drives me crazy.  I think I would have to ask her to cool it with the giggles.

Agree with everyone else, Joy looks 5 months pregnant at least.  And what's with the glasses?  I didn't even recognize her at first.

Last, does no one in the Duggar family make their beds?  What a pig-sty.

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6 minutes ago, debbie311 said:

Last, does no one in the Duggar family make their beds?  What a pig-sty.

I was thinking how smelly and musty the boys room must be. There's what 7 - half of which are grow  men - in that room which I think has a connecting bathroom? Joe should have opened a window, stripped the beds and sprayed Lysol, then placed his good-bye cards on bed.

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10 hours ago, flyingdi said:

This is the first wedding where it seemed legitimately odd not to see Josh for some reason.  Maybe it was because Joseph was Josh's only buddy if I am remembering correctly?

Its not that I want to see Josh, it just seemed odd.

Duggar family blog pictures show Josh as a groomsman. He’s cut out of the TLC ones. 

The blog also says Trace Bates was in the wedding - so maybe he is the dark haired gentleman people are wondering about. 

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I think the wedding talk with the sons (Joseph's -- be open with your wife; and Joshly's -it's like legos) is a way for the Duggar parents to show TLC and the viewers how relevant they are to their sons' marriages. It serves opposite the natural -- OMG I'm giving MY possession to another man -- talk that is had moments before a daughter's wedding. Reality is most men figure out marriage without mama and daddy explaining it to them 5 minutes before the wedding. Frankly if you have as perfect of a marriage and home life as JB and Michelle claim to have, there is nothing to explain whatsoever bc in the 22 yrs of living with you, the son knows how a marriage works. And in families where the parents may speak up regarding sons' relationships -- often in conservative homes where the parents know the son has no experience with girls or in cases where the parents know their son doesn't have many guy friends to talk with -- I'm fairly positive those talks start happening when a relationship starts, not 5 min before the vows. In this case, wouldn't it have made sense for JB to sit down with Joe when he started the get to know you period or was about to take get-to-know-you into a courtship and said -- son she's a nice girl and I think she digs you but you're a quiet guy and you should make sure she knows how you feel about her; you need to speak your feelings in words and not just assume she's a mind reader . . . . It's actually useful advice that can help through a get-to-know you and courtship, not just a marriage. I feel like we've seen the Bates say these kinds of things WAY before the wedding. Can't recall exactly but they were recently talking to one of their overly exuberant (read: obnoxious) middle daughters who is newly courting about how she needs to learn how her courter communicates and he needs to learn how she communicates and they need to see if it works for them (i.e. let your obnoxiousness be known now; we don't want you to chase him away but better for him to bow out now than for you to keep sweet, you get married, and you two hate each other in 3 months when true colors come out). They did the same with Nathan -- talking to him about really thinking about whether New Yorker Ashley would be able to adjust to BFE Tenn. or whether he could handle NYC or whether there was some other compromise or whether the life situations just couldn't mesh. They didn't say it 15 min before a wedding! They said it early enough so that the couple could think hard and move their separate ways . . . .

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