S02.E05: Brothers

[Snickerdoodle]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

Sigh, a ret-conned sibling, how original. Would someone with poor eyesight have even been allowed into combat?

I guess it depends on how bad? My uncle has horrible vision and they didn't even let him in to the armed forces.  Do we know for sure the brother was in combat?

[Pallas]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

Would someone with poor eyesight have even been allowed into combat?

Yes. My brother is nearly legally blind, and still (barely) passed the draft physical in 1968. The only requirement for the infantry was that the soldier's vision be correctable by glasses. 

I thought Nicky looked a lot like his nephew Kevin, which may figure into survivor-Jack's occasional awkwardness with the boy. And, "Where's Kevin? Oh that's right: he's dead." 

[voiceover]

I finally found a reason to respect The Manny: supercool ep titles.  "Manny-pedi", bwah!  I think we should start a separate thread.

Grooving that Kevin's instinct with Randall is to "opposite" him: "Don't mention her hair"/"Love your hair!"  Annoying as shit when you're on the receiving end but as audience, I love it.  This show often makes me so sad that goofball stuff like that is the only way I can breathe through it.

Edited October 25, 2017 by voiceover

[virginia blue]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

Sigh, a ret-conned sibling, how original. Would someone with poor eyesight have even been allowed into combat?

I’ve been watching the Vietnam War documentary, and for me the issue isn’t Nicky’s eyesight, but the likelihood that two brothers would have been deployed at the same time, much less in the same unit. The military generally tried to avoid putting multiple family members at risk.

[Lady Calypso]

Also, what I meant to mention before: for a show that's surrounding their biggest mystery around the Pearson home burning down, there sure are a lot of videos and pictures of Kevin, Kate, and Randall as kids. We had Kevin looking at pictures of the family in the first present day scene. 

[Driad]

Before the triplets were born, did Rebecca and Jack know there were two boys? If they did, and if Nicky died in Vietnam, Jack may have been thinking a lot about having two boys who were brothers. Then when one baby boy died, the memory of Nicky may have been a factor in Jack's insistence on adopting Russell.

[Amethyst]

I'm cool with learning more about Jack's history and the introduction of his brother.  We need a break from the looming death stuff anyway.

I was also wondering why no one was searching for Kevin during the fundraiser. People knew who he was, and the hallway wasn't abandoned.  Whatever.  His addiction is clearly getting worse, and that last phone call was so depressing.

Randall finally made some headway with Deja, although I still think he's doing this for his sake more than hers.  It's good that he wants to connect, but it has to be on Deja's time, not Randall's.  The girl's got enough to unpack.

Yeah, Madison is annoying, but she had a point.  Kate and Toby used to giggle and smirk at the other members of the group sometimes, back when they first started dating.  Even so, Kate doesn't know shit about Madison's life or her personal issues.  She acted like a jerk at the meeting and I don't blame Madison for calling out Kate's bullshit.  I did laugh at the 180 when she learned Kate was pregnant, though.

Something I forgot, I wish we could have seen Kevin hanging out with his nieces instead of just hearing about it in passing.  I sometimes forget that the "Big 3" are related when they never actually hang out together.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Amethyst

[voiceover]

2 minutes ago, virginia blue said:

The military generally tried to avoid putting multiple family members at risk.

That's how the plot for Saving Private Ryan was born.

[Kira53]

41 minutes ago, mmecorday said:

Heck, Janet Jackson had a baby when she was 50. She was really serious about that waiting a while thing.

Janet Jackson was not "morbidly obese" or "super obese" both of which are technical terms. I don't know Kate's BMI, but her BMI a serious factor.  All that fat is pressing on her internal organs as well as her uterus.   And she has a apple body shape so the fat is all around the middle. Janet Jackson, who also is a millionaire, and was married to a billionaire certainly had the resources to get pregnant at a seriously advanced age.    It's almost impossible to conceive at age 50 without assistance. Of course there are exceptions to every rule but I sure wouldn't bet on it. The media doesn't tell women that the chances of getting pregnant at age 40 are very very small even with medical assistance. You heard it here, don't wait until 40 plus and expect to get pregnant without some highly expensive intervention and even then it just might not happen.  Or it happens and then you miscarry. I'm extremely worried for Kate having a miscarriage and the character seems to be highly aware of that possibility as well. All the reason that she didn't want to tell anybody because when you miscarry it's really hard to talk with everybody about it. And when you are older and you have your  amniocentesis, you might get devestating news like your baby doesn't have much of a brain  and is likely to die within 24 hours of any birth. And that's why Toby should've kept his big mouth shut. 

[scarynikki12]

30 minutes ago, elle said:

Is there not a rule that a doctor can not prescribe outside of their licensing state. i.e. a CA doctor could not write a prescription to filled in NY?

No reputable pharmacy is going to fill an out of state Schedule 2 painkiller. That’s a major red flag. 

That said, I expect it to be a while before Kevin gets help/admits his problem because it’s still pretty easy to get ahold of these medications. 

[I-Kare]

Aren't folks making a leap here with assuming Jack and Nicky were in the same unit? Being pictured together during a war doesn't necessarily mean you're in the same unit. I'm not saying we won't find that out later, but was there something that I missed on the photo that is making folks assume they were in the same unit? 

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, hovegeta said:

randall and deja just annoyed me to no end, like seriously randall give her some space, let her come to you, the shrimp thing was really annoying and randall bothering her in the bathroom was creepy, surprised no one called security on him, also him trying to be cool was cringeworthy

I'm sick to death of cringeworthy Randall, period. It isn't endearing, it's obnoxious.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Blakeston

[Cardie]

43 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

We need a break from the looming death stuff anyway

There was young Kate asking whether her dad would look that awful when he was an old man, and we know that he won't get to be an old man. *sniff*

[Dreamboat Annie]

Rebecca and Jack's blue and white house and pretty yard is everything.

[Marley]

Randall going into the ladies room was creepy and weird. I don’t find his overbearing ways to be cute and loveable. Get a grip dude. This Déjà SL is a weak spot in the show for me. I never ff this show but this SL is getting me close.

[methodwriter85]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Also, what I meant to mention before: for a show that's surrounding their biggest mystery around the Pearson home burning down, there sure are a lot of videos and pictures of Kevin, Kate, and Randall as kids. We had Kevin looking at pictures of the family in the first present day scene. 

I just tell myself that the week before the fire, they stored all their photos and family films at the family cabin in the woods.

[OtterMommy]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

I think whoever is in charge of that OA group, or whatever it is, needed to take Madison aside when she first started coming there and ask her not to come.  Maybe point her to a different group for her problems.  Because, while Kate has no right to lash out at her, her presence there is not helpful to the rest of the group.

 

I had the same thought, except I thought they should take Kate aside and ask her not to come.  All we know about Madison is that she's thin now.  Who knows?  She could have been 400 pounds at one point?  Plus, you can have a food addiction and not be overweight.  Kate, however, was creating a pretty terrible situation in the meeting.  I'm not exactly sure what the policies are with 12 step groups, but I can't see how having someone who repeatedly blows up at other members is a good thing.

Besides that, I can't say I was overly impressed with this episode.  I mean, I'm happy Toby is happy about the baby, but you can be happy and not make a fool of yourself.  I have lost the ability to like Kate and Kevin is boring me to tears.  Even the Randall/Deja story line was a yawn fest for me tonight.

[Aileen]

I literally shrieked, "What?!" when Nicky popped up like this was some huge revelation. This show just makes the smallest reveals seem huge.

10 year old Kevin was perfectly cast.

How did 37yo Kevin walk around the gala looking like he crawled out of a greasy dumpster and have no one notice something was wrong until several minutes into conversations with people?

Loved the pregnancy reveal to Madison and seeing how happy she was for Kate. Kate was being a huge bitch to her in the meeting , so hopefully Kate learned the error of her ways.

And this was the second week in a row that Toby didn't totally suck.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Aileen

[OtterMommy]

3 hours ago, mansfolly said:

The whole show I'm like, hey girlfriend Sophie - the nurse! - can't you tell something is really wrong with your extremely sweaty, wet boyfriend!? Jeesh.

Exactly!  If Sophie had any other profession, this would not bother me.  But she's a nurse...she should be able to recognize what is going on with Kevin.  It's like Fogelman didn't stop to think this through....shocker!

[OtterMommy]

2 hours ago, Laurie4H said:

Why does Kate always have to mention she is 37?  An she says she is having a geriatric pregnancy?  Weight wise it’s not healthy but these days 37 is not that old go have a child.  

Any pregnancy past the age of 35 is considered a geriatric pregnancy.   Even though it isn't what I would consider old (I had my kids at 35 and 37 and know many people who had children well into their 40s), "geriatric pregnancy" is what gets put on the charts and reported to the insurance companies.

[NeverLate]

Randall makes me laugh. He knew going into the ladies was oh so wrong, but he needed to reach out to Deja, and she did break down and tell him why she flinches when he gets too near. That broke my heart, and how funny she was crushing on the Manny :-) Me too!!

I hated seeing Kevin drinking and taking pills, so like his father and his grandfather

I knew Toby would be happy, I know its a high risk pregnancy, but I'm so happy for them..and Kate was a witch to Madison, but hormones !! and Kate was so glad she told her she was pregnant

 

We end with - Nicky! brilliant 

[izabella]

19 minutes ago, Aileen said:

How did 37yo Kevin walk around the gala looking like he crawled out of a greasy dumpster and have no one notice something was wrong until several minutes into conversations with people?

Loved the pregnancy reveal to Madison and seeing how happy she was for Kate. Kate was being a huge bitch to her in the meeting , so hopefully Kate learned the error of her ways.

I couldn't figure out why no one noticed how bad Kevin looked!  I guess Sophie knew he'd been drinking, so maybe Randall did, too, and they both just thought he was drunk. 

Madison's utter joy at Kate's pregnancy seemed way over the top.  They're not family or friends, so why would Madison be so incredibly happy? 

Edited October 25, 2017 by izabella

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah I’m still meh on this season. It feels more low for me this year. I mean..

The brother thing is something but yeah also it feels kind of retconning, I agree; I feel like perhaps the show realized they weren’t having twisting endings so much this year they needed to step up- even Kate’s pregnancy last week wasn’t really that shocking, not to me anyway. Not like last year when Older Rebecca walked into the door with Older Miguel! That’s shocking.

Randall has funny moments, but I’m not feeling the adoption story.

And I’ll say it again.. I just hate it on tv when a person ruins a support group by having a tantrum. It happened on Nashville a couple seasons ago and it pissed me off. Like look I get that the skinny girl shouldn’t be there but ruining the support group because you’re having a Day is annoying and not cool and I wish the support leader would have said as much. You are ruining it for everyone else because of yourself. I know Kevin can be self centered at times but Kate is just as bad. She may even be worse, actually. 

Also.. Toby is kind of okay this season? Enough that I think he should be consider what he’s getting himself into with this family. Seriously he can’t even be excited about being a father? Ugh. 

[Spencer Hastings]

At first I thought little Jack was talking to himself when I heard the voice from the backseat.  I must have jumped five feet when I saw a child pop up. Poor Nicky is surely toast--I refuse to let myself get attached to another dead Pearson man. 

[elle]

51 minutes ago, Aileen said:

How did 37yo Kevin walk around the gala looking like he crawled out of a greasy dumpster and have no one notice something was wrong until several minutes into conversations with people?

The scruffy look is in?  He is preparing for a role where he needs to look diaphoretic?

[MBayGal]

I'm so tired of Kate and Toby.  I don't know which is more annoying. Toby pushing everything off his desk assuming Kate wants to be thrown on it for sex--puleeeeze!  And his idiotic behavior in the coffee shop, then dumping a pitcher of water over himself!  He should drop a big tip on the underpayed kid who has to clean up after him, not that I expect that would occur to him. Kate and Madison were both annoying, but then Madison is going to be her BFF when she finds out Kate is pregnant?  This show is getting too ridiculous, losing the charm it mostly had in S1.  

[MoonMountain]

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

I love that Toby was so enthusiastic, but I do not like that he made a huge mess for someone else to clean up when he poured a bucket of water over himself.  

This bothered me so much!! I've worked in the service industry for a very long time, and that entire scene was unrealistic. Unless you know the staff, or are even a paying customer in the very least, good luck getting the employees to play a song for you in the first place. Especially in LA. And pouring the water and then just bouncing was so rude and disrespectful. Again, he didn't appear to have purchased anything. The actual conversation at the cafe after the fact would be something like, "This guy came in with his wife, and he looked totally normal and wanted us to play a song for him. So we did, figuring he seemed like a nice customer, and he started dancing around, talking to the other patrons, came OVER the counter and then went behind it, and ended by pouring the water pitcher on himself and ALL over the floor. So if you guys see him come in here again, we need to ask him to leave." LOL. If I were Kate I would have been mortified.

I can't say I really enjoyed this episode.

My first thought when Kate told Madison was that Madison is now going to tell a bunch of people in the group before Kate is ready. Although, that would really derail the entire storyline and take away a lot of time from the main characters. Once I got over that thought, I thought the scene was kind of cute. Sure, Madison's a little over the top, but definitely a realistic LA personality. I know we're not likely to learn a whole lot about Madison's backstory, but I do wonder why she is in that group. On the surface is seems inappropriate to be there (and I think that's what the show wants us to think), but as many have said, she could have gone through a number of things to have chosen that specific support group.

Also, I've never been pregnant, but don't most women wait until they're further along to start telling people? I get that they're just telling a couple of randos to get it off their chest (I would be the same way, I would HAVE to tell SOMEONE), but is this setting them/us up for heartache?

Randall standing in the bathroom with Deja was so icky. I wish Kevin would have straight up said, "Randall, you can do a lot of things but you CANNOT go into the women's restroom!" I feel like everyone's always like, oh, hahaha, Randall's just going to do whatever he wants anyway, haha! But someone seriously has to talk to him about boundaries. Whether it's Beth, or Kevin, or anyone else. It's getting exhausting. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

That Was Us:

[Cardie]

1 hour ago, NeverLate said:

Randall makes me laugh. He knew going into the ladies was oh so wrong, but he needed to reach out to Deja, and she did break down and tell him why she flinches when he gets too near.

Randall going into the restroom was one more example showing that Fogelman has no sense of it being necessary for men to respect women's boundaries. Because the women usually reward these transgressions by going all gaga or at least sharing something deeply private and emotional, the show conveys the message that this is totally OK.  It drives me crazy.

[CelticBlackCat]

4 hours ago, Katy M said:

She keeps mentioning it because it is a risk factor. And the technical definition of geriatric pregnancy is a pregnancy in a woman 35 or older.  Kate did not make up the term.  Although, for PC reasons, it's usually now referred to as "advanced age pregnancy."  

This.  Kate probably wouldn't have known that term until she heard it from the OB/GYN.  A pregnancy can be high risk at any age for a number of reasons but Kate's has the age thing going on, as well as her weight.

[elle]

Was it explained in the first minutes of the episode that the event was a charity event somehow related to Sophie's work?  That is the impression I got from her speech to Kevin about how he let her down, again.  And if it was something for Sophie's work, why were Randall and Deja there?

I do think Kevin did the right thing to compliment Deja on her hair.  She looked really nice in the short hair style.  

[CelticBlackCat]

I was enjoying the show until the Toby desk scene/going into the diner scene.  So OTT.  As someone else mentioned, in L.A. no one's gonna give a crap about you wanting a favorite song being played.  Also, Madison is an L.A. personality.  A little OTT with the woman bonding scene, but sweet nonetheless because of her instant forgiveness.  I'm thinking Mads might have had the gastric bypass surgery or a band and is now a normal weight but still have overeating issues and needs support.

Randall in the ladies' room was unrealistic.  First for the obvious reason, men are NOT allowed to announce Man Coming In and just stand around chatting to a girl inside, but unrealistic in that there is never a totally free ladies' restroom at an event like that!

Wow.  Jack had a bro.  I kind of think I remember that being mentioned last season too, but I can't say for sure when because I binge-watched the whole season so it's kind of like a really long movie for me.

Rebecca at the nursing home was really nice.

[dwarmed]

I think the event was a charity fundraiser for Sophie's hospital. Maybe she volunteered to help organize, so it was important to her career? I'm surprised Kevin didn't go straight over to his date. Sure as shit that lady had some Vicadin in her purse.

Randall, just stop making it all about you and forcing your pay it forward agenda on this poor girl. Deja's eyeroll in the car was everything. Same, Deja, same.

[NUguy514]

OA is a 12-step program.  No 12-step programs I'm familiar with allow the type of bitter, over-the-top, inventory-taking cross-talk Kate was flinging at Madison.  If I had been the secretary of that meeting, I would've kicked Kate out about five seconds into her rant.

Toby continues to be the absolute worst.  I just...I can't with him.

I thought Sophie knew something was really wrong with Kevin, but he's always an asshole when he's called on his shit (like, always, even when he was ten or whatever), so it's a little hard to tell.

Beth's little comments to Randall when he gets high on himself are so gold.  I love him, but he needs to chill the fuck out a bit.

Edited October 25, 2017 by NUguy514

[debraran]

7 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Jack had a brother? First real shocker for me this season. I wonder if Rebecca ever finds out.

Ugh god is Kate annoying. I get that skinny girl needs another weight group but shut up Kate! 

I found out my Dad had a brother he lost about the same age (not in Army though) by finding a group pic from his neighborhood and asked who the "cute one in the front is" It was a very painful loss for him and on his graduation day. That said, my Mom knew, so I hope Jack didn't hide a brother, that seems more than odd. Not wanting to talk about it, fine, but mention it.

 

I'm sure they thin girl has eating disorder, but if that group is just for weight, than it seems odd, but knowing This is Us, it's for balance and laughs.  If it wasn't for anyone, I assume she'd be asked to leave.

[Victura]

4 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

I had the same thought, except I thought they should take Kate aside and ask her not to come.  All we know about Madison is that she's thin now. 

 

3 hours ago, MoonMountain said:

I know we're not likely to learn a whole lot about Madison's backstory, but I do wonder why she is in that group. On the surface is seems inappropriate to be there (and I think that's what the show wants us to think), but as many have said, she could have gone through a number of things to have chosen that specific support group.

 

1 hour ago, CelticBlackCat said:

I'm thinking Mads might have had the gastric bypass surgery or a band and is now a normal weight but still have overeating issues and needs support.

Madison was in one of the first episodes where Kate also gets angry at her and several others in the group. She said that she has body dysmorphia / body distortion (where she thinks she's extremely overweight and that's what she sees in the mirror) and admits to the others that they probably think it's a joke that she's there. 

Edited October 25, 2017 by Victura

[debraran]

2 hours ago, CelticBlackCat said:

This.  Kate probably wouldn't have known that term until she heard it from the OB/GYN.  A pregnancy can be high risk at any age for a number of reasons but Kate's has the age thing going on, as well as her weight.

I guess I've known so many women today who are over 35 and pregnant, just age didn't seem high risk. I only heard that over 35 had risk for twins when I went. I was 33 and had them. ; )   I also knew a woman who was told at 40 she wouldn't get pregnant easily and she had 3  singletons by 44. lol  Always someone on the curve.

I hope they don't have her lose it but are realistic. I think after Jack's death (shown) it will be an upper for the final show or start of season 3.

Edited October 25, 2017 by debraran

[Nilknarf]

Commenting on Madison, and whether she belongs in Kate’s group.

I don’t know that they have specified which weight loss group Kaye attends, but someone upthread suggested it might be OA- and that the leader should have taken Madison aside and told her to not come. 

If it is OA, the only requirement for membership is the desire to stop eating compulsively. In my experience, compulsive eating behaviors also can involve severe restrictions, and we have no idea what Madison’s eating issues are.

While I totally relate to Kate’s feelings, Madison may have as much right to be in the group as Kate

[debraran]

I think Kate was rude and was surprised the  facilitator of the group let her speak for others. If it was just for overweight individuals she would have been asked to leave. At my old gym I met women who were thin but had many issues with food, bulimia, binging, etc. Maybe Madison had issues with seeing herself the way others did. The fact there was only one like her in the group was more this show wanting her to stick out and be an antagonist to Kate.  I see a friendship starting.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Sign of Jack's ineffectiveness as a parent: repeatedly telling young Kevin not to play with his Gameboy BUT NOT TAKING IT AWAY - especially while he's being punished.. That's like parenting 101.

Randall, it shouldn't take a 12 year old who's been in and out of foster care to tell you that one of the places she stayed was abusive in order for you to figure out that you shouldn't grab her.

Even if Sophie didn't organize the whole gala, the fact that she is the one who said Kevin would be there to be auctioned off made her look bad when he didn't show up. Even if her only involvement in the whole event was saying that Kevin would be there and he disappeared, of course it would be embarrassing for her. I don't blame her for being upset that he got drunk and disappeared.

Poor Kate - Rebecca promised her a fun girls' weekend together and she got to sit in a nursing home.

I don't blame Rebecca for trying to reach Jack while he was camping with the boys, but it always annoys me when significant others/friends think that everyone should reconcile with their parents. People make their choices. Some people choose to be shitty parents and that doesn't mean that they are owed a relationship with their kids. Children are not obligated to forgive their shitty parents for being shitty. I don't think Rebecca was pushing him, but it's just something I've seen a lot (both on tv and in real life). Jack already had closure with his dad so he didn't need to see him on his deathbed.

A similar situation happened to an old friend of mine. She had no relationship with her father as a teenager and adult. When he was on his deathbed, he contacted her. She refused to see him. A lot of her friends encouraged her to go, citing reasons like "it's your last chance to reconcile with him," "you'll regret it if you don't go," "you can get closure," "give him one more chance," etc. Although their intentions were good, they were misguided (and came from people who had healthy relationships with their own parents so they couldn't possibly understand why my friend had no interest in seeing him). She didn't go see him. She didn't regret it.

5 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

Any pregnancy past the age of 35 is considered a geriatric pregnancy.   Even though it isn't what I would consider old (I had my kids at 35 and 37 and know many people who had children well into their 40s), "geriatric pregnancy" is what gets put on the charts and reported to the insurance companies.

My friend was 36 when she had a baby last year so we were both laughing and horrified that the doctor referred to it as a geriatric pregnancy. I know several women who had perfectly healthy babies in their 40s (and all without fertility treatments or any sort of outside assistance to get pregnant).

[debraran]

7 hours ago, Kira53 said:

I don't see this at all about the script being about "the black girl doesn't know how to eat a shrimp cocktail."  This is a girl who has come from poverty and a mom in and out of jail. She has been in and out of foster care and the average foster family doesn't take their foster kid out for shrimp cocktail. The "black girls" in Randall's house not only know how to eat shrimp cocktail but they have been exposed to a lot of things that the average poor child hasn't.  As I see it it's just pure economics.  I just don't see it as a black thing.

I see your point but I think for me, having a husband that was black and brought up poor and just having white friends that never tried a stuffed artichoke, I wouldn't grab them and say not to eat the prickly part, I would just mention it.  She wasn't going to die and the movement might have brought attention from others to it. I guess as much as I love Randall's character, it seemed so contrived by the writers, "Lets bring the poor black foster child to the gala and have her do something awkward" I'm glad she finally told Randall what was obvious to others and maybe things will be a little easier now until the next emotional moment.

I know there is a good chance of bonding between all of them and then a twist but I love that family and look forward to more. Someone told me that foster parents sometimes do long term placements but then I hear of kids being moved around and foster parents upset. It's a crazy system and state by state I'm sure the laws are different. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Edited October 25, 2017 by debraran

[Haleth]

Not loving the (adult) Kevin storyline.  Please, writers, I know it's timely and gives Justin some meat to work with, but it's been overdone and it's difficult to watch a character spiral down like that.  No doubt he'll be fired from his movie and Sophie will dump him again.

I did love that Rebecca and young Kate had a nice bonding day, even if their plans were interrupted.  For once there was no tension between them.  I also loved that Toby was excited by Kate's news, although he overdid the celebration as usual.  And I liked that maybe Kate and Madison will be friends from here out.  They were both wrong at the meeting-- Kate by assuming Madison's life is perfect and calling her out on it, and Madison for her humble bragging about how awesome her life is.

Stop trying so hard, Randall.  (Both kid and adult try too hard to be liked.)

Well, now we know why there was a random quick scene of a helicopter in Vietnam in a previous episode.  It took me a minute to realize that was Jack in the pic, but his brother being there was a surprise.

[Arcadiasw]

9 hours ago, debraran said:

 

Great camping scene and I hope to see more of Randall and Kevin at that age. I'm glad Jack stayed with them. This was his time, if he visits his Dad later, fine, but he had thousands of chances to see him and his grandkids 

 

How did the nursing home know Jack's number? Jack didn't want his Dad to know about his wife and kids. When he borrowed money from his Dad, he let him think it was for gambling and not a house for his family. I guess they reconnected at some point or just enough for Jack to leave a contact number when he put his Dad in a home.

 

Toby can be annoying but I did laugh at his happy song dance. 

It's no surprise Adult Kate only has her brothers and Toby. It would be hard being friends with her. 

[Jillybean]

Kate really has become downright unlikeable. She was a real asshole to Madison in the meeting and her behavior is totally unacceptable for any 12-step group or support groups of any kind.  The leader of that group should have stepped in (or other members should have said something). It's called a support group for a reason. Kate is so resentful of thin, pretty women that she acts horribly toward them.  You can never know what pain someone else is going through just by looking at them. I have come to dislike adult Kate immensely and don't care about her pregnancy. Toby is a tool and the scene at the coffee shop was ridiculous.

Randall is so awkward with Deja, and while I feel like that's to be expected, I also feel very little connectivity between the Randall of S1 and the Randall of S2. It's almost like he's a different character. I don't care for this arc at all. And I can't understand why he would smack Deja's hand instead of using his words to advise her not to eat the shrimp tail. WTF? That felt unnatural and convoluted as a plot device to get them to the ladies' room scene, which I also didn't care for. I'm not sure Deja would have confided in Randall at that point. I enjoyed her crush on Kevin, though.

Young Randall's notes to himself about engaging with Kevin were heartbreaking. "When Kevin thinks you're being annoying, try talking about Karate Kid."  "Don't ask to use Kevin's Gameboy." Poor, sweet Randall. I was glad that Young Kevin had enough heart to understand those notes and to try harder with Randall. It's nice to see them together as adults even if they don't seem to have that same connection as in S1. 

As for Kevin, with all the celebrity ODs where multiple docs were filling prescriptions for them, I didn't think it'd be this tough for him to get more Vicodin. Why didn't he stock up before he left LA? All he had to do was go see more than one doctor. I suppose now he will turn to street drugs when alcohol isn't cutting it for self-medication. I don't like this storyline, either.

I didn't care about Jack's father dying. Jack's brother is an interesting twist. I'm pretty sure my dad told me that when he went for his physical to join the Marines, he memorized a few lines of the eye chart when he was waiting in the exam room, so he got around the whole glasses/eyesight thing.

Bottom line is I don't feel engaged by the (disjointed, IMO) S2 storylines as I did in S1, which is incredibly disappointing. 

Edited October 25, 2017 by Jillybean

[NeverLate]

5 hours ago, Cardie said:

Randall going into the restroom was one more example showing that Fogelman has no sense of it being necessary for men to respect women's boundaries. Because the women usually reward these transgressions by going all gaga or at least sharing something deeply private and emotional, the show conveys the message that this is totally OK.  It drives me crazy.

She'd have been in there all night and the next day, its a TV show, didnt drive me crazy.

[llewis823]

6 hours ago, izabella said:

I guess Sophie knew he'd been drinking, so maybe Randall did, too, and they both just thought he was drunk. 

Before they left - when she was modeling dresses for him - she even told him to slow down the drinking because they had a long night ahead of them. Him being drunk is not a surprise to her. The sweaty nervous Kevin at the event - and nobody noticing - yeah, right.

[DeepPoet117]

Did Randall sleep through the foster parenting classes they would have been required to take? Deja already flinched away from him the first night she was there; how did he think reaching out to grab her hand was the best option? And yeah, going into the women's restroom was creepy. I'm really surprised that Deja actually opened up to him in there.

The actor playing Child Kevin is really really good!!! I agree with whoever said that Jack should have taken his Gameboy if he didn't want him to have it. 

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

No 12-step programs I'm familiar with allow the type of bitter, over-the-top, inventory-taking cross-talk Kate was flinging at Madison.  If I had been the secretary of that meeting, I would've kicked Kate out about five seconds into her rant.

I would have kicked her out before the rant, just for the nasty, rude  faces she was making. Someone in that high strung group should have slapped her. I've been trying to like Kate since the show started but she has been consistently self-centered and cruel to everyone around her from her mother, to Toby, to perfect strangers.

I like Toby and when he pretends to want sex in the hospital or sex on his desk I never think he means it seriously, but just as a joke and that Kate knows that.   What is completely unrealistic is that he would crash everything on his desk for the sake of the joke or that he would pour water all over a restaurant and climb behind the counter for the sake of a joke.  For one thing, there's nothing particularly funny about causing a scene, it's just  embarrassing and a little frightening to the other people around.

Also unrealistic:  The auctioneer not looking around for Kevin before announcing him and no one going into the hall to look for him after it became clear he was out of ear shot. This whole addiction thing doesn't make sense to me if Kevin's motivation was to show his dad how tough he was and get back on his feet in a hurry.  Tough guys like Jack and Rocky would do it without the pain killer wouldn't they?

Also unrealistic:  Little Jack and Nicky sitting in the car that long. My brothers and I would never have minded that well. We would have been out and playing in the area. What is up with little Kevin not liking Randall?  We fought sometimes, but we played together all day, every day. We were each other's whole world with the parents just  overlords we took for granted, like the grown-ups in Peanuts.

Also unrealistic:  Randall standing in the lady's room without security being called.

Rebecca was great to Kate and her father-in-law.  It was so kind of her to tell him that Jack had turned into a wonderful husband and father.

[CofCinci]

9 hours ago, LadyNebula said:

Would Jack and his brother have been in the same unit?  Didn't they stop doing that after WW2 and the Sullivans?

Yes, siblings can serve together.  Hell, there are even some units with Parent and Adult Child serving together. 

[Kira53]

5 hours ago, Cardie said:

Randall going into the restroom was one more example showing that Fogelman has no sense of it being necessary for men to respect women's boundaries. Because the women usually reward these transgressions by going all gaga or at least sharing something deeply private and emotional, the show conveys the message that this is totally OK.  It drives me crazy.

 I totally disagree. It's not about Fogelman, it's about Randall. The episode shows us how little Randall just doesn't have patience for things to get better and for people to like him. He, the adult Randall knows better but he can't stop himself from doing the wrong thing for the right reason.  Young Randall knows better because he knows his brother  but he doesn't want to wait.  I love how he has his little notebook to tell him what's the right thing to do to try to connect with Kevin but he sitting out there just wanting to do something a have it change now.   In this episode, Randall discusses with Kevin how he shouldn't go in to the bathroom.  Randall clearly knows this is the wrong move to connect with Deja.  But they both kind of agree that of course he's  Randall is not going to do the right thing, he's going to do what he feels is necessary at the time even when he knows it the wrong thing. This is consistent with the character and I do not believe  that it has to do with any philosophy from production. Every character is highly flawed in this show and that's why I enjoy it because they're great people with great flaws.  Well drawn characters that are complex.  There is that phrase, " Jack is perfect" but Jack's not perfect; he can be secretive about his family, obviously he has issues with alcohol, but I personally love Jack's heart and how he takes his emotional pain and childhood experiences as personal manifesto for to how he wants to treat his wife and his children.  

Also,  Randall saw and felt that something was wrong with Kevin but Kevin as an actor and an actor in life was easily able to miss direct him. And Randall went back to focusing on fixing his relationship with Deja.  Actually I just realize that Randall does become fixated many times on an issue or problem and that's just his personality for good and for bad.   Kevin not wanting to share what's going on inside him was consistent with the little Kevin in the tent. But it's not just the Kevin in the tent with Kevin at home only sharing perhaps with Sophie  but using Sophia as a distraction from his inner world.