S02.E02: A Manny-Splendored Thing

[Empress1]

5 hours ago, ThatsDarling said:

I wish Mandy Moore would change her voice and mannerisms more when she's playing sexagenarian Rebecca. It's an interesting opportunity for an actress, to be able to play the same woman at different ages, and I don't think she's making the most of it. 

With her obsessive resentment and aspirations for a late in life singing career, Kate is starting to remind me a bit of Baby Jane Hudson as portrayed by Bette Davis. I wouldn't be surprised to see her serve Rebecca a rat for dinner. 

None of the main characters are particularly likable, but I keep watching in the hopes of seeing another shot of Milo's bum. 

I always notice that Mandy Moore doesn't change her voice when she plays present-day Rebecca and I find it jarring, because her aging makeup and her sensible bob are age-appropriate but the voice is not. She also doesn't really move like an older woman.

I just don't think Kate is good enough to sing professionally. Most people aren't. I'm not. I sang from childhood through my mid-20s (I'm a little younger than the Big 3) - choirs, a cappella groups, solos all the time. And I stopped and have been wanting to pick it back up again, but just for fun - it's a thing I loved to do and was reasonably good at, but not a thing I could make a living at (nor would I want to, frankly; I need stability). Just a thing I liked to do and would like to do again, for fun. And I could absolutely see Kate doing that (open mic nights, choirs, etc.), but professionally? At 37? When her voice is nothing special and she's too old for autotune? I just don't see it. 

She also has a lifetime of issues to work out with her mother, because wow. Her memory of her first real gig will be a fight with her mother because SHE took it there. She was doing way, way too much.

There was something about Beth's "Oh my GOD, you're driving me nuts. I'm walking" as she sashayed away that made me laugh. I have read that when adopting an older child, it's advised to adopt one younger than your youngest. I've known several people who adopted older kids they fostered - one adopted one kid as a single childless woman, one family adopted a daughter younger than their biological daughter, and one family adopted a son older than their biological daughter. All of the families are strong, but I do recall reading that bit of advice somewhere. Another friend and her husband started looking into the process and got scared off by the paperwork the way Randall almost was.

[Clanstarling]

21 hours ago, Katy M said:

So, the whole family flew cross country to watch Kevin and the only ones that watched were Miguel and the girls.  That's kind of funny.

I like Sophie, but man that was idiotic of her to ask Kevin to do that.  It's not like they were in the privacy of their own home.  Of course that wouldn't go over well.  I'm also not really understanding the episode. What happened to the new manny? Did he take a vacation and old manny had to cover for him?  Whatever.

I thought it was sad - they're always bailing on Kevin. I have always found Sophie pretty bland, but did not like her urging Kevin to do the melt down at the scene of the meltdown. Encouraging him to recreate his worst behavior was just all kinds of wrong. 

20 hours ago, Crs97 said:

Wow, I wondered if we would get to the point that Rebecca's mere existence was enough to make her wrong.  What a cruel, awful, mind-blowingly heinous thing Kate said to her mother, and then she blames her mother for "making" her say it and ruining her big night?!?  What we have seen of Kate's torturous childhood with a terrible mother is (1) Rebecca telling her she is beautiful and then Kate realizing she wears a larger size than her mom does, and (2) Rebecca making her a beautiful dress and then Kate realizing her mother can sing better than she can.  Kate has always been a stone cold bitch, but she really took it up a notch tonight.  Could not be more Team Anti-Kate if I tried;  she is truly the worst waste of oxygen and I see no path to redemption.  I couldn't get into how supposedly sweet the Jack/Kate moments were because he couldn't be bothered to defend his wife from the "queen" remark beyond a wimpy "be nicer to your mother, Kate."  Too bad she couldn't have been in the fire with him.

I've always been on Kate's side - but not in this episode. Sure, Rebecca was flat footed, and should not have offered the advice about the crowd, but Kate went nuclear - so much so that I didn't believe her when she said she loved Rebecca. 

19 hours ago, candall said:

And it is not what Kate "has to" remember about her first gig.  It's the thing she's chosen to make the hallmark of the event.  Not to be proud, not to be happy, not to be flushed with joy at her first real gig, not to bask in the glow of her boyfriend's admiration.  Her mother showed up and therefore, cry, cry, cry, everything was ruined.  Kate was right on the button when she told Rebecca her offense was existing.

The worst was when Kate said, "Well, you did it, Ma.  You got me to say terrible, unfair things."  You know who else employs that strategy?  Abusers.  "You did it again.  Why do you always make me hit you?"

That was my first take on her comment. 

18 hours ago, elle said:

Being mortified that your mother just "shushed" the crowd, that I can understand.

I did not take Rebecca's comment about the crowd as negative.  Rebecca has sung in a bar, Kate knows this, Rebecca is passing on some advice based on experience.  However, Kate is predisposed to take anything her mother says as negative, not to say that she does not have reason, but said by anyone else it would not have sounded harsh.  To me, it was supportive because it implies that Kate will have more gigs and will get another chance to win over the crowd and/or get used to having people not listen to her because she is singing in a bar.

Having been in many a bar listening to my husband's band, I didn't buy former professional singer Rebecca shushing someone, not even as a motherly moment.  Talking crowds are part of the gig. That took me out of it. 

17 hours ago, pennben said:

Okay, I wasn't going to say anything about this, but your comment has clearly 'forced' me to:)  I'm not sure if it's an age thing, a completely different sort of relationship I had growing up, or an Oedipal thing, but I found it a bit creepy with young Kate cupping her father's face in her hands several times this evening.  Eeeep! And, just no.

I had the same reaction. But I don't really think the show will go down that line. But children of alcoholics do end up taking care of their parent(s) and shoulder way more responsibility than they should - I suspect that's the path they'll take.

9 hours ago, MyAimIsTrue said:

I couldn't agree more.  I like the show for what it is, not for how Jack died.

Indeed. To me it is a show about a family, and the way their experiences informed their lives. Deaths are part of the story of a family, as are births (and adoptions). 

9 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

It seems that Kevin has the same whinings, Beth and Randall have the same theme of arguments then making up, Kate freaking out over her mom, Toby sabotaging Kate's health (beer cheese has many more calories than mustard, which is a traditional dip for pigs-in-a-blanket.  And WHY would an obese man, in the the home of a morbidly obese person prepare that kind of food?  He claimed it was for Miguel.....right. 

To be fair, Miguel did seem excited when he heard there were pigs in a blanket. And I believe it Toby used nut cheese - which is something I've never tasted but is presumably healthier than regular chees.

[debraran]

The sticker on the car window when Rebecca drops Jack off at AA says 5/98, was that on the car when Rebecca was in front of the home? I think I'm over analyzing , who notices those things, but maybe it wasn't just a prop, but a timeline? The one in front of the burnt house said 98 also, I just didn't see a month. Same year though which is sad

1 hour ago, Pallas said:

And his wedding ring, and his watch, I believe: I think Kate wears it and we saw it on the arm she raised to (finally) lay her hand on her mother's, in Toby's car. Everything but the "(Something) UNDY CONSTRUCTION" steno pad -- though it might have been among the reams of notebooks that kept getting flung on Jack's desk. Rattling the pint kept in the top drawer.   

Bundy Construction is the company he worked for, he had a mug with that on it in one scene. 

Edited October 5, 2017 by debraran

[SunnyBeBe]

16 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I thought it was sad - they're always bailing on Kevin. I have always found Sophie pretty bland, but did not like her urging Kevin to do the melt down at the scene of the meltdown. Encouraging him to recreate his worst behavior was just all kinds of wrong. 

I've always been on Kate's side - but not in this episode. Sure, Rebecca was flat footed, and should not have offered the advice about the crowd, but Kate went nuclear - so much so that I didn't believe her when she said she loved Rebecca. 

That was my first take on her comment. 

Having been in many a bar listening to my husband's band, I didn't buy former professional singer Rebecca shushing someone, not even as a motherly moment.  Talking crowds are part of the gig. That took me out of it. 

I had the same reaction. But I don't really think the show will go down that line. But children of alcoholics do end up taking care of their parent(s) and shoulder way more responsibility than they should - I suspect that's the path they'll take.

Indeed. To me it is a show about a family, and the way their experiences informed their lives. Deaths are part of the story of a family, as are births (and adoptions). 

To be fair, Miguel did seem excited when he heard there were pigs in a blanket. And I believe it Toby used nut cheese - which is something I've never tasted but is presumably healthier than regular chees.

Yeah, I meant to say nut cheese, but, it's still much higher in calories than mustard.  Oh well.  If it was all to make Miguel happy......lol.  

[tennisgurl]

Kate is a pretty good singer, but I still dont think she is so good that she can make it professionally. How is she making money now? Is she still at her old job until she...become famous or gets a permanent gig or something? Does she want to just sing at bars, or does she want to become famous? I just dont get it. Singing is SUCH a hard field to break into and make a living doing, they will have to do a lot to sell me on her success. 

[possibilities]

One thing I will give this show is that, even when I'm super annoyed by the characters and their behavior, it usually seems fairly realistic because I DO think people behave badly in real life in just these ways. And the situations they're reacting to may be concentrated and piled on (lots of tragedies and intense events per episode), but they are often the kind of things people actually deal with. The Rebecca-Kate relationship is annoying, but it's not like I don't believe it could happen. They pack a lot of stuff into a concentrated story, but the things they are packing in there are real people kind of flaws. It's not people saving the world from asteroids or major heroics or musical beds. It's people fucking up or coping on a basically human scale. And when someone does do something well or they throw in a touching or inspirational moment, it's mixed in with the overall picture of human imperfection.

[Dejana]

47 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, I meant to say nut cheese, but, it's still much higher in calories than mustard.  Oh well.  If it was all to make Miguel happy......lol.  

Why is nut cheese being looked at as a replacement for mustard, and not some form of...cheese? It's not unheard of to make pigs in a blanket with it; I figured Toby was just modifying the recipe to make the dish "gourmet" yet still dairy-free.

I wonder if Beth has heard too many of Randall's stories about Kevin from their childhood and resents the hell out of him for it. Randall himself was there for the good times they had together growing up, too, but Beth wasn't, so I could see that being part of why she hasn't been able to warm to him.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Dejana

[BuckeyeLou]

19 hours ago, elle said:

It was a little weird, but I think she was copying what Jack did with his kids to calm them down or comfort them.  We saw him do this when teen Randall was having a panic attack about some test/paper.

Or, at least that is how I remember it.

Yes, and I believe that's what Randall did to William when William was dying...he cupped his face.

[Clanstarling]

33 minutes ago, BuckeyeLou said:

Yes, and I believe that's what Randall did to William when William was dying...he cupped his face.

Good point (@elle too). I think though, part of the reaction is that the action is fine when it's adult>adult, and adult>child. But child>adult feels off and just a touch creepy. It wasn't just the action for me, but also the look on the girl's face. However, I do believe it is intended to be an innocent echo of the family calming pattern.

One thing about that scene that also bothered me, teen Kate called her mother "the queen" in a disparaging way, and Jack's rebuke was weak sauce. She clearly felt comfortable enough to be disrespectful about her mother in front of her father - which does not speak well of the family dynamics or Jack's "nearly perfect" parenting.

[Neurochick]

20 hours ago, izabella said:

It wasn't just about that one comment, for Kate.  Rebecca was shown doing that to teen Kate when she sang during breakfast, and Rebecca told her she'd be great if she could just hold that note at the end.  I think we're supposed to understand that this is a pattern that's been bugging Kate for a long time, and after 30 years, she did not want to deal with it that night.

I disagree.  

Kate just wants someone to kiss her ass, not give her ANY criticism at all.  I have an issue with people like that because you're always walking on eggshells with them, afraid of saying the wrong thing.  I had a friend like that and I couldn't be friends with her because she was WAY TOO sensitive.

[Lithogirl]

Maybe it's because I wasn't very close with my dad, but the cupping face scene gave me the willies. That was just yuck for me. 

[Crs97]

22 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Kate just wants someone to kiss her ass, not give her ANY criticism at all.  I have an issue with people like that because you're always walking on eggshells with them, afraid of saying the wrong thing.  I had a friend like that and I couldn't be friends with her because she was WAY TOO sensitive.

My mother always describes it as the insensitivity of sensitive people.  I ease myself out of their lives as quickly and gently as possible.

[methodwriter85]

52 minutes ago, Lithogirl said:

Maybe it's because I wasn't very close with my dad, but the cupping face scene gave me the willies. That was just yuck for me. 

I think we're running into the problem of Milo being a very attractive man who isn't actually her relative and the Teen Kate actress responding to that on some level. Especially since she hasn't done nearly as much work with him as Little Kid Kate has.

I remember Shenae Grimes would have moments with the guy playing her father on 90210 that were just a little bit squicky on the same level, probably because of the same thing.

[shoregirl]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

 

One thing about that scene that also bothered me, teen Kate called her mother "the queen" in a disparaging way, and Jack's rebuke was weak sauce. She clearly felt comfortable enough to be disrespectful about her mother in front of her father - which does not speak well of the family dynamics or Jack's "nearly perfect" parenting.

I was bothered by this too. That was such a bitchy nasty comment it deserved more than a half hearted "Dont talk about  your mom that way you don't know the whole story " .

   I was also a little bothered that he talked to Kate by herself about the alcoholism. I think that was a conversation to have with the whole family.  I think it just makes it standout that Kate is Jack's favorite.

[Clanstarling]

18 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

I think we're running into the problem of Milo being a very attractive man who isn't actually her relative and the Teen Kate actress responding to that on some level. Especially since she hasn't done nearly as much work with him as Little Kid Kate has.

That thought did cross my mind. I'm not sure I could make a concerned face w/o a bit of "whoa, I'm THIS close to your face" mixed in with it. And I'm an old lady.

[momma2seven]

Long time lurker, not sure why I put off registering...but anyway...

For those of you trying to guess a timeline based of the inspection sticker on the car...a Pennsylvania inspection is good for a year, the date shown is when it runs out. So a 5/98 sticker would have gone on 5/97...so those scenes are any time between May of 97 and May of 98...and since the kids were 17 when Jack dies that narrows the burnt house scene down to September 97 to May of 98.

[justmythoughts]

I am trying really hard to see things from Kate's point of view. I remember the few times my mom criticized me, it was hard, but after you grow up you tend to try to understand people better and see those situations as pushes for improvement.

What bugged me, I guess was all the you you you things in Kate's lashing out. Sure, she may not know the principles of feedback, but one of them os: it is more about you and how the other person makes you feel, instead of the other person alone. 

So Rebecca is pretty, thin, and has pitch perfect... things she can't change and do sound like "you are a problem", when in fact it was more like: Kate feels diminished in comparison, so every word from Rebecca resonates 100times deeper for Kate, hence little comments that in Rebecca's mind sound like resonable advice to help her daughter, make Kate feels like she is never going to be as good as her mom. Kate doesn't know how to express herself... And totally yeah, no one made you say those things, Kate, own up your shit. 

I am not a mom but I am old enough to see things from a mom's point of view, and I am quite younger than Kate, so she needs to mature a little bit and part of Toby being Team Kate is to be totally on her side in public, but being able to honestly, delicately and privately call her out and suggest therapy. 

Edited October 5, 2017 by justmythoughts

[tribeca]

I must be really naive since I didn’t see anything but a sweet moment between Kate and jack.    She was just trying to let him know it would be ok.  At least that’s how I saw it.   

[methodwriter85]

31 minutes ago, momma2seven said:

Long time lurker, not sure why I put off registering...but anyway...

For those of you trying to guess a timeline based of the inspection sticker on the car...a Pennsylvania inspection is good for a year, the date shown is when it runs out. So a 5/98 sticker would have gone on 5/97...so those scenes are any time between May of 97 and May of 98...and since the kids were 17 when Jack dies that narrows the burnt house scene down to September 97 to May of 98.

That's all changing this year, but it was a pretty nice touch. I live in Delaware but got a used car in PA last year. It had a 5/17 sticker on the windshield, meaning the sticker must have been bought in May 2016. In Delaware we just have the license plate stickers.

If we go by the Steelers jersey and it being football season, then it has to be anywhere from September 1997 to January 1998.

[Aloeonatable]

12 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

   12 HOURS AGO,  ALOEONATABLE SAID: 

See.......I feel like the show is taking us down a dark road here.  Was young Kate somehow abused by Jack?  And Rebecca didn't either know or do anything about it, and it was a cause of Kate's weight?  I honestly hope this is not the case, but there have been strange clues to favor that theory.

VERY interesting idea.  I would not have thought that at ALL until that face holding of her dad last night. I found THAT creepy, awkward and not the normal parent/child affection that we have seen so far.  I DO NOT want to see that happen, so, I'll pray it was just a fluke.  Too dark for this show, imo. 

I actually did not say the bolded part of your post, SunnyBeBe. That was someone else's observation that I vehemently disagreed with. Your were finding that poster's comment interesting and left out my response to her's/his' post. 

[sasha206]

Like so many of you, I'm having a hard time with why Kate has such an issue with Rebecca.  Kate is reduced to a fat, jealous and miserable stereotype; someone who seems to mostly hate her mother for being pretty and thin.  There's not much else there to truly hate about Rebecca, so for them to act like a "Power through it" comment, or "holding out the note comment" would result in her seething over it just doesn't feel authentic.

And oddly enough, the one kid who really should be pissed about his mother hiding his birth father's identity for his entire life gets over that issue within an episode.

 

14 hours ago, Georgia said:

I hate how they're doing the foster kid storyline. I'm a CASA volunteer, so I've worked with foster kids. One thing that is so important in foster placements - don't interrupt the birth order. The foster child should always be the youngest child in the home. Randall is 100% correct in his realization of how hard it will be. Older kids who have been in the system generally have dealt with years of trauma. Randall has recently lost a parent, Beth's mother is sick, and Randall is still learning to manage his anxiety - this is not the time for them to foster. The process is also much, much longer than they're portraying. In addition to the extensive background checks, they have to attend classes. It is realistic that they'd get a child placed with them almost immediately after getting certified, though, because there's such a shortage of foster homes.

 

Well, to be fair, this entire show is based on the ridiculous premise that a couple could lose #3 and within days leave the hospital as proud new parents of an infant they adopted.  Apparently there were no other approved adoptive parents waiting for a newborn babies.  The show is based on a mother who lost 1 child being the "dragee" but easily adopting; no social worker concerns there!  

Edited October 5, 2017 by sasha206

[Court]

II didn't hate Toby this episode. I'm sure next week I'll hate him again . 

While I think Kate was unnecessarily mean to her mom, I also think she had a point. I flinched when she gave her support comment wrapped up with criticism. When that happens your entire life, it hurts and you end up with that kind of blow up. A compliment wirh criticism is not a compliment. Sometimes a parent should just say great job. I could get a 99 on a test and all my Dad would concentrate on was that missed point. It sucks.

I hated that everyone abandoned Kevin's show. I'll give Kate and Toby a pass but not the others.

I liked the scene between Beth and Kevin.

I was really hoping that we would get some good scenes of all 3 siblings interacting since they were all together. 

[Emily Thrace]

7 hours ago, wilnil said:

My feeling all along has been that Jack isn't a "classic" alcoholic/addict but someone with a drinking problem -- specifically, that he uses the booze as a crutch when he's stressed out. If his life is going along fine, he probably doesn't have any compulsion to drink and could have one beer and then stop, but whenever he's feeling overwhelmed, he "self-medicates," so to speak, and that probably creates a vicious circle (because really, drinking just adds to his problems). A truly addicted alcoholic might need to go to an AA meeting every week or so forever to hang on to sobriety; Jack should probably have gotten into the habit of going whenever he feels his stress level rising. 

Yeah it seems almost like he has some anger issues that he tries to cover by drinking more than anything. PTSD might be part of that but its also pretty standard for someone with and abusive dad. I did like that they showed him doing something about it other than AA. Its a great program that helps a lot of people but its not for everyone. Especially for people for whom talking and expressing themselves is part of the problem.  Its good to see that reality reflected in this show. This show has always been good about avoiding the cliches but still being very true to life.

[AmandaPanda]

On 10/3/2017 at 11:12 PM, DebbieM4 said:

However, I do agree with you that Rebecca is not as innocent and supportive as she thinks she is.  Offering a backhanded compliment to someone like Kate was extremely insensitive.  In the flashbacks, although Rebecca seemed to be encouraging Kate with a big smile, I definitely detected an undercurrent of competition and making it all about her.  (That's been my biggest problem with Rebecca from the beginning.  She's very often selfish and rarely tries to see things from anyone else's point of view.)  Kate should have had a new dress for the talent show.  The night should have been all her own, without even a whisper of suggestion that it had anything to do with Rebecca's own singing talent.  Kate had a nice voice for a kid, and it would have been a great opportunity to boost her self-esteem.  Instead, Rebecca was all, "I sang too!  Here's the dress I wore!"  It would have been far better for Rebecca's role to have been Supportive Mom.  Period.  Making a big deal about her own singing only opened the door for further comparison,  which has clearly already been an issue.  So I totally get why adult Kate doesn't view Rebecca's "support" as all that supportive.  There's a passive-aggressive aspect to her compliments that Kate apparently has been painfully aware of since she was a child.  (Don't let her get to you, Kate!  Realize that this is who she is, don't expect her to be different, and celebrate your own successes with people who make you feel good about yourself!  And also, try to grow up a little.)

I thought it was incredibly sweet that Rebecca made a dress for Kate. For me, it was like she was saying, "This dress made me feel really pretty and happy when I had my first singing job and I want to share that with you." All of Rebecca's interactions with Kate seem to be based around her trying to forge some sort of connection with Kate. Singing is something they have in common. So, she shares her stories to show Kate it's something they can have together. Kate has always so clearly favored her father that I can see where Rebecca is just trying to make a connection with her daughter. And knowing what we know of Rebecca's relationship with her mom, she was raised that giving "constructive criticism" is a way of showing love. Yes, she knows that it made her feel like crap from her mom. However, Kate basically shuts Rebecca down with anything she says, so it just seems to be that Rebecca is grasping at straws. 

15 hours ago, laurakaye said:

See.......I feel like the show is taking us down a dark road here.  Was young Kate somehow abused by Jack?  And Rebecca didn't either know or do anything about it, and it was a cause of Kate's weight?  I honestly hope this is not the case, but there have been strange clues to favor that theory.

I don't see that at all. Maybe if this was a dark, gritty drama on HBO. There's no way this show goes down that path. 

4 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Good point (@elle too). I think though, part of the reaction is that the action is fine when it's adult>adult, and adult>child. But child>adult feels off and just a touch creepy. It wasn't just the action for me, but also the look on the girl's face. However, I do believe it is intended to be an innocent echo of the family calming pattern.

One thing about that scene that also bothered me, teen Kate called her mother "the queen" in a disparaging way, and Jack's rebuke was weak sauce. She clearly felt comfortable enough to be disrespectful about her mother in front of her father - which does not speak well of the family dynamics or Jack's "nearly perfect" parenting.

I agree that it's troubling that Kate felt comfortable enough to call her mother "the queen" to Jack. However, I'm going to give Jack a pass on the weak response. He had clearly been psyching himself up to tell Kate about his alcoholism. You could see the dread on his face and the pain he felt when he was getting ready to talk to her. I doubt her comment made much of an impact on him, but he at least was able to let her know that was wrong. It was just clear he had something much more on his mind in that scene. I actually liked that Jack told Kate separately. He clearly has a different relationship with her than with the boys (yes, he's done some adultifying of her which needs to be addressed) and probably figured Kate needed to hear it from him away from her brothers. From what we've seen of the Big 3 as teenagers, Kate would likely have gone into care taking mode with Kevin. Telling her separately gave her the chance to respond to it without having to worry about anyone other than herself, even though she did then try to take care of her father. 

As for the foster care storyline, I want so badly to like it. I'm a social worker who works in foster care and I want this to be a positive storyline. However, they're going about it ass backwards. You don't fill out all these forms and then get the most difficult children in the world. You go through weeks of classes before you're to the point where you're doing your health assessment or anything like that. Yes, we're hard up for foster homes in just about every state, but it's not like you fill out a questionnaire and get a kid the next day. 

[biakbiak]

1 minute ago, AmandaPanda said:

don't see that at all. Maybe if this was a dark, gritty drama on HBO. There's no way this show goes down that path. 

Particularly not with St. Jack.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Blakeston said:

 

I've always wanted to know - is The Manny supposed to be a satire of something specific? Because if it isn't, it's truly bizarre to me.

I get that there are plenty of incredibly stupid shows out there, and This is Us wanted to lampoon them, but "shirtless guy is bad at watching a baby" is so far removed from any sitcom I've ever seen that it doesn't feel like satire.

I figured it's lampooning Chuck Lorre comedies.  Because I hate them all.  And they're incredibly successful.  

Though the Manny seems much worse.  Wasn't he losing the baby last season?   Is that the entire premise?   And what the hell is "Manny say what?"  I felt bad for the cast having to repeat that.   

We get so little character development yet Beth has to remind us like three times that she resented going.  So stay home.   These women are such passive, whiny victims.  

I resorted to FFing some scenes tonight including lots of the Beth/Randall crap. 

I laughed at Rebecca shushing bar patrons         like it's her kid's recital.   

I was hoping Jack was finally going to die.  

[methodwriter85]

54 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I figured it's lampooning Chuck Lorre comedies.  Because I hate them all.  And they're incredibly successful.  

Though the Manny seems much worse.  Wasn't he losing the baby last season?   Is that the entire premise?   And what the hell is "Manny say what?"  I felt bad for the cast having to repeat that.   

We get so little character development yet Beth has to remind us like three times that she resented going.  So stay home.   These women are such passive, whiny victims.  

I resorted to FFing some scenes tonight including lots of the Beth/Randall crap. 

I laughed at Rebecca shushing bar patrons         like it's her kid's recital.   

I was hoping Jack was finally going to die.  

The Manny looks like something that could have been on ABC Family, or maybe UPN back in the 90's.

[debraran]

5 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

That's all changing this year, but it was a pretty nice touch. I live in Delaware but got a used car in PA last year. It had a 5/17 sticker on the windshield, meaning the sticker must have been bought in May 2016. In Delaware we just have the license plate stickers.

If we go by the Steelers jersey and it being football season, then it has to be anywhere from September 1997 to January 1998.

I was just noting it was so large in the window, if it meant something ; )   I didn't watch season one looking for clues but then realized they planted them on purpose.

Re Kate and her Mom, I also thought the "queen" comment was uncalled for but I'm sure Kate missed him and was worried. She seemed more sarcastic though. You would think after knowing his secret, she would be more understanding of her Mom and things she didn't have privy too.  I also think it's odd she blames herself in some way for his death and is still so mean to her mother, it's almost like she blames her.

I thought a really mean comment her Mom could have made back to her (but am glad she didn't) after her "you exist" comment, and Kate wanted her to say something mean to her, would  be, "I'm sorry it wasn't me" re Jack's death.

Edited October 5, 2017 by debraran

[MsJamieDornan]

18 hours ago, ThatsDarling said:

I wish Mandy Moore would change her voice and mannerisms more when she's playing sexagenarian Rebecca

She kind of does. She acts like she cant move her head from side to side. Drives me crazy. Her head looks like its stuck in one place.

Edited October 5, 2017 by MsJamieDornan

[Crs97]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

I thought a really mean comment her Mom could have made back to her (but am glad she didn't) after her "you exist" comment, and Kate wanted her to say something mean to her, would  be, "I'm sorry it wasn't me" re Jack's death.

At this point she is probably afraid Kate would agree.

[JudyObscure]

On ‎10‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 0:12 AM, DebbieM4 said:

However, I do agree with you that Rebecca is not as innocent and supportive as she thinks she is.  Offering a backhanded compliment to someone like Kate was extremely insensitive.  In the flashbacks, although Rebecca seemed to be encouraging Kate with a big smile, I definitely detected an undercurrent of competition and making it all about her.  (That's been my biggest problem with Rebecca from the beginning.  She's very often selfish and rarely tries to see things from anyone else's point of view.)  Kate should have had a new dress for the talent show.  The night should have been all her own, without even a whisper of suggestion that it had anything to do with Rebecca's own singing talent.  Kate had a nice voice for a kid, and it would have been a great opportunity to boost her self-esteem.  Instead, Rebecca was all, "I sang too!  Here's the dress I wore!"  It would have been far better for Rebecca's role to have been Supportive Mom.  Period.  Making a big deal about her own singing only opened the door for further comparison,  which has clearly already been an issue.  So I totally get why adult Kate doesn't view Rebecca's "support" as all that supportive.  There's a passive-aggressive aspect to her compliments that Kate apparently has been painfully aware of since she was a child. 

I think you've hit on the heart of the matter.  We get little snippets of Rebecca's criticism and think "That's not so bad, what's the big deal?"  For Kate it's been gong on her whole life and it's a wound that has been rubbed raw and sensitive.  The show was reminding us of this with Kate trying to get the throw to fall perfectly over the chair.  The only reason she would have been fretting over that was if she knew from past experience that if it wasn't just right her mother would walk in and rearrange it, first thing.  Rebecca would think she was helping. 

Sure Kate should be so grown-up and self-assured that she could laugh those things off, just as she probably should be able to maintain her glow of pride over her first singing gig, even after hearing that she didn't manage the crowd properly -- but she can't.  Her mother scraped that old wound and ruined the night. 

When is Rebecca expected to grow-up?  When is she going to step outside her fabulous singer vision of herself long enough to see that her "helpful tips" about holding the note longer put a sad look on her little girl's face and that grown-up Kate's face fell when she made her comment about powering through?  Kate must have tensed up over those helpful bits of advice and re-arranged throws all her life and Rebecca has never noticed.  Just as she's never noticed the times Kevin remarked that she's never seen him act.

[luna1122]

I just finally watched...I felt so sad for Kevin when practically his whole family, most of whom had flown halfway across the country, ostensibly to see him, bailed on his show. Tho perhaps he was relieved that less folks were there to see him in a diaper. Poor Kevin. Tho...the only face he truly sought out was Sophie's, so maybe he didn't even realize it. I really liked the scene between him and Beth in the trailer. I'm not sure it's a minority opinion or not, but I find Justin Hartley eminently watchable and easy and charming and funny in this role.

Kate remains my least favorite. I have had a prickly relationship with my mom at times, and goddess knows nobody else pushes my buttons like she does, but Rebecca just can't win with Kate. Yeah, she can be passive aggressive and picky, like a lot of moms, and like a lot of kids, Kate reverts back to being 8 every time they're together. I don't know...at some point, I just said 'well, my mom is never going to change, so I'll have to' and I just let that stuff slide. I complain about it to my significant other or my BFF, but I don't engage in fighting and sniping with my mom anymore. It leads nowhere, and never will. I'm usually not one to just suck things up, but in this case, it's the path of least resistance and I actually manage to find it all kind of funny. Maybe it's not healthy. But at any rate, Kate needs massive amounts of therapy to deal with all of her issues.

I did find the young-Kate-holding-Jacks-face thing kind of squicky, but in no way do I see this going down any kinds of inappropriate, gross, abuse avenues. It's not The Wire.

I don't see Kate becoming a professional singer, but singing at wedding gigs and clubs...she's good enuf for that. I thought her singing 'Landslide' was nice. I do wonder what she's actually doing for money these days.

[laurakaye]

13 hours ago, SixFeetOver said:

Are we supposed to pretend that Kate is a good singer, who might be able to make a living at it? That's almost as ridiculous as selling Connie Britton as the biggest country star of the last twenty years.  Thank goodness for the fast forward button!  Bye Toby; bye Kate singing. 

 

12 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Kate is a pretty good singer, but I still dont think she is so good that she can make it professionally. How is she making money now? Is she still at her old job until she...become famous or gets a permanent gig or something? Does she want to just sing at bars, or does she want to become famous? I just dont get it. Singing is SUCH a hard field to break into and make a living doing, they will have to do a lot to sell me on her success. 

 

50 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

When is Rebecca expected to grow-up?  When is she going to step outside her fabulous singer vision of herself long enough to see that her "helpful tips" about holding the note longer put a sad look on her little girl's face and that grown-up Kate's face fell when she made her comment about powering through?  Kate must have tensed up over those helpful bits of advice and re-arranged throws all her life and Rebecca has never noticed.  Just as she's never noticed the times Kevin remarked that she's never seen him act.

I'm struggling as to why the show's writers are putting so much emphasis on the singing careers of Rebecca and Kate in the first place.  I suspect it's because they happened to cast two actresses who can sing, and they want to showcase that.  But my goodness, this is an awful lot of angst for a woman in her 60's who had a moderately successful gig as a lounge singer for a brief period of time, and a 37-year old woman who apparently doesn't work at all because she's decided to launch a singing career, despite barely being able to sing in front of a group from a nursing home, and has a ton of mother-inspired baggage that she's carrying around to every audition.

I don't really get it.  I understand that there are unresolved issues between Rebecca and Kate, but singing seems to be at the heart of it.  Since neither character really ever made it big in that area, it seems a mighty big leap for the viewers to take that much of this struggle comes down to singing.

[himela]

On 4/10/2017 at 5:21 AM, mtlchick said:

That really grated for me.  She's resentful because Rebecca wanted to be encouraging and cut up her old dress to make a new one for her?  I get feeling that she would never measure up to her mom but geez.  I wished my own mother was a fraction as encouraging instead of constantly comparing me to other kids and reminding me how fat I was. 

I was a fat kid. My mom would not humiliate me or compare me to other kids etc but her expression at times was enough for me to feel bad for my weight - this still goes on and I am 36. My mom is 57 and she is fit, beautiful, social, kind hearted - everything I am not. I can relate to Kate. Her mom was not saying to her "OMG you are fat" but her behavior could very well imply it.

[SunnyBeBe]

On 10/4/2017 at 5:19 PM, wilnil said:

My feeling all along has been that Jack isn't a "classic" alcoholic/addict but someone with a drinking problem -- specifically, that he uses the booze as a crutch when he's stressed out. If his life is going along fine, he probably doesn't have any compulsion to drink and could have one beer and then stop, but whenever he's feeling overwhelmed, he "self-medicates," so to speak, and that probably creates a vicious circle (because really, drinking just adds to his problems). A truly addicted alcoholic might need to go to an AA meeting every week or so forever to hang on to sobriety; Jack should probably have gotten into the habit of going whenever he feels his stress level rising. 

I'm no expert, but, I have family members and friends who have suffered with substance abuse and I have spoken with experts about it. You could be a heavy drinker and not be an alcoholic, but, if you ARE an alcoholic, it's something that you can't change, although, you can change your behavior with help.  According to experts and everything that I have read, you either have that problem with addiction or you don't.  It's not a sometimes thing, no matter what some would have you believe.  It's complex and lot of it is based on the individual's physiology.  Those with alcoholic parents are of much greater risk.  In the show Jack says that he is an alcoholic.  So, I'll go with that and believe that he was all along and did have periods of sobriety. 

 

20 hours ago, Aloeonatable said:

I actually did not say the bolded part of your post, SunnyBeBe. That was someone else's observation that I vehemently disagreed with. Your were finding that poster's comment interesting and left out my response to her's/his' post. 

So sorry, not sure how the quote was done in error.  Not sure if I can correct it.  I'll try. 

[DearEvette]

For once I did feel bad for Kevin because everyone bailed.  Although, I hate to say, I probably would have had the same reaction as Beth when she realized they'd be sitting there for hours.  Sitting there watching them do re-takes and scene delays etc.  Not like seemless live theater and can be tedious especially if it a show you don't like in the first place.  Watching a show like The Manny even on tv with the ability to mute or FF would be a personal hell for me.

But I did like her smallish scene with Kevin.  It was a nice moment of character revelation or both of them.  Makes me wonder if Kevin started to lose some of his asshole tendencies toward Randall after Jack's death or if Randall coming to him for help made Kevin feel needed?

I am not a Toby disliker he's okay with me.  But I have to say I liked him even more with his "team Kate forevah" speech to Rebecca followed by "let's commence the awkward ride home."  He clearly wanted Rebecca to like him as something more than the guy who had a heart attack and fell through a table upon their first meeting.

And finally I am not on board with the adoption storyline.  I wish they had come up with something else for Beth & Randall.  It feels ill conceived and rushed and uncharacteristic.  Randall has his neurosis and last year was obviously a crisis of identity for him, but I can't for the life of me imagine Beth, at this point in her life, and given all the upheavels in their family the past year and going back to work, being on board with wanting another kid.

Edited October 5, 2017 by DearEvette

[Clanstarling]

8 hours ago, AmandaPanda said:

I thought it was incredibly sweet that Rebecca made a dress for Kate. For me, it was like she was saying, "This dress made me feel really pretty and happy when I had my first singing job and I want to share that with you." All of Rebecca's interactions with Kate seem to be based around her trying to forge some sort of connection with Kate. Singing is something they have in common. So, she shares her stories to show Kate it's something they can have together. Kate has always so clearly favored her father that I can see where Rebecca is just trying to make a connection with her daughter. And knowing what we know of Rebecca's relationship with her mom, she was raised that giving "constructive criticism" is a way of showing love. Yes, she knows that it made her feel like crap from her mom. However, Kate basically shuts Rebecca down with anything she says, so it just seems to be that Rebecca is grasping at straws. 

I don't see that at all. Maybe if this was a dark, gritty drama on HBO. There's no way this show goes down that path. 

I agree that it's troubling that Kate felt comfortable enough to call her mother "the queen" to Jack. However, I'm going to give Jack a pass on the weak response. He had clearly been psyching himself up to tell Kate about his alcoholism. You could see the dread on his face and the pain he felt when he was getting ready to talk to her. I doubt her comment made much of an impact on him, but he at least was able to let her know that was wrong. It was just clear he had something much more on his mind in that scene. I actually liked that Jack told Kate separately. He clearly has a different relationship with her than with the boys (yes, he's done some adultifying of her which needs to be addressed) and probably figured Kate needed to hear it from him away from her brothers. From what we've seen of the Big 3 as teenagers, Kate would likely have gone into care taking mode with Kevin. Telling her separately gave her the chance to respond to it without having to worry about anyone other than herself, even though she did then try to take care of her father. 

As for the foster care storyline, I want so badly to like it. I'm a social worker who works in foster care and I want this to be a positive storyline. However, they're going about it ass backwards. You don't fill out all these forms and then get the most difficult children in the world. You go through weeks of classes before you're to the point where you're doing your health assessment or anything like that. Yes, we're hard up for foster homes in just about every state, but it's not like you fill out a questionnaire and get a kid the next day. 

I see Rebecca's comments as an attempt at connection too.  Plus, let's face it, parenting doesn't come with a script. No one says the perfect thing all the time, or even most of the time. 

I can see your point about Jack's state of mind when Kate made the comment. To me that comment indicated she'd said similar things without Jack properly shutting her down. Of course, that could be because I was Kate - in that I was my Dad's favorite, and that he actually respected me more than my mother. I remember at the age of 13 yelling at my Mom and telling her I was going to tell Dad (don't remember the infraction - she was being a parent), her face got white and she looked scared and I remember thinking "this is messed up." I swore if I married and had kids, my husband and I would have to always have a united front. And we have.

1 minute ago, DearEvette said:

For once I did feel bad for Kevin because everyone bailed.  Although, I hate to say, I probably would have had the same reaction as Beth when she realized they'd be sitting there for hours.  Sitting there watching them do re-takes and scene delays etc.  Not like seemless live theater and can be tedious especially if it s ahsow you don't like in the first place.

But I did like her smallish scene with Kevin.  It was a nice moment of character revelation or both of them.  Makes me wonder if Kevin started to lose some of his asshole tendencies toward Randall after Jack's death or if Randall coming to him for help made Kevin feel needed?

I am not a Toby disliker he's okay with me.  But I have to say I liked him even more with his "team Kate forevah" speech to Rebecca followed by "let's commence the awkward ride home."  He clearly wanted Rebecca to like him as something more than the guy who had a heart attack and fell through a table upon their first meeting.

I don't know, for a family member, I think I'd be interested, or at least willing, to see them in their element/behind the scenes. But of course, she's not really a "sit in one place for hours" kind of woman.

I very much liked Toby's "team Kate" (even if I hated Kate at that point). That is the partner you want - someone who is always on your side. Too bad Kate doesn't seem to feel the same way.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, shoregirl said:

I was bothered by this too. That was such a bitchy nasty comment it deserved more than a half hearted "Dont talk about  your mom that way you don't know the whole story " .

 

It probably did, but I think Jack was gearing up for a very tough conversation with his daughter about his alcoholism and knew that would affect her, so he didn't want to be too hard on her in that moment.

I don't blame Kate too much for her reaction to Rebecca in this episode. A lot of backhanded compliments combined with a lot of parenting mistakes Rebecca made leads to a build up.  Kate was over the top, but Rebecca isn't innocent.  I don't think Rebecca is a villain, just a parent who made mistakes while trying to "help" her daughter. I mean, worrying about your daughter's weight to the point that you ask her to just eat fruit while her brothers get different food, want her to cover up at a swimming pool, etc.  When you add that behavior over the years to a lot of mixed signals on compliments, you can easily get two well meaning people unable to communicate effectively.  I don't think one has to be good while the other is bad, and I don't think the writers are trying to portray it that way.  

[BlancheDevoreaux]

21 hours ago, SueB said:

ITA.  That was a WIN for Rebecca who so often doesn't have them except for with Jack.   

 

On the 'aftershow' I love Milo's matter-of-fact, 'Randall has Rebecca, Kate has Jack, and Kevin ..has Kevin'.  

Yep.  Pretty much sums it up.  

I'm wondering if they are going to talk about this.  Kevin seems to be pretty confident as a kid and teen, but that might be him overcompensating because he never felt like he got attention at home.  I'm pretty annoyed about how blatant the favoritism of Kate by Jack and Randall by Rebecca is.

21 hours ago, ThatsDarling said:

I wish Mandy Moore would change her voice and mannerisms more when she's playing sexagenarian Rebecca. It's an interesting opportunity for an actress, to be able to play the same woman at different ages, and I don't think she's making the most of it. 

With her obsessive resentment and aspirations for a late in life singing career, Kate is starting to remind me a bit of Baby Jane Hudson as portrayed by Bette Davis. I wouldn't be surprised to see her serve Rebecca a rat for dinner. 

None of the main characters are particularly likable, but I keep watching in the hopes of seeing another shot of Milo's bum. 

This cracked me up.

20 hours ago, shoregirl said:

  I thought Rebecca making a dress out her old dress was sweet. I didn't thing there was anything more to it than this dress made me feel pretty and special and singing is an interest we share so i want this dress to do the same for Kate. I think Kate thought the same thing until she heard Rebecca sing, which again I don't take to be anything more than I song that was in her head because she was hearing all week.  Kate needs to own her shit and stop putting so much blame on her mom. She's 37 not 16. She wasn't just the favored child by Jack she was coddled by him .

         I  am the same age as the triplets and there was no way in the late eighties or early nineties that a car would pull up in front of a school and a kid just could get in with no adult stopping them. It wouldn't have mattered that it was the parent in the car.

Couldn't agree more.  I'm not sure if the writers are trying to portray Kate as hypersensitive and will have it pointed out how wrong she is or if we are actually supposed to agree with her.  I'm hoping the former because if it is the latter, they are doing a terrible job of making me agree with Kate.  Rebecca seems like a sweet mother who is trying to be supportive of her daughter.  Sorry that you aren't as good as your mom, Kate, but that's not her fault and she's hardly pointing that out.  Instead, she's there for you every step of the way.  Oh poor you. 

16 hours ago, Crs97 said:

The weird thing was that Randall was putting on the brakes; he was honestly completing the questionnaire and starting to ask the tough questions parents interested in fostering need to ask.  Suddenly it was Beth who was throwing the fit because she wasn't getting her way, even though she didn't want it not that long ago.  These two can give you whiplash.

Yes.  I loved that Randall wasn't entering into the adoption lightly and really considering that they could end up with a teenager with some serious emotional problems.  It shows he actually cares not only about his current family and what that could do to them but also about the potential child that he might or might not be able to give the support they need. Beth just running full steam ahead, especially after how angry she (rightfully, in my opinion) got last week was pretty irritating.

[Lady Calypso]

4 minutes ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

Yes.  I loved that Randall wasn't entering into the adoption lightly and really considering that they could end up with a teenager with some serious emotional problems.  It shows he actually cares not only about his current family and what that could do to them but also about the potential child that he might or might not be able to give the support they need. Beth just running full steam ahead, especially after how angry she (rightfully, in my opinion) got last week was pretty irritating.

I agree with this. The last two episodes had Randall, and then Beth, wrong about going through this major life change. It's not making either of them look particularly smart if they're rushing into taking in a kid, newborn or older, without being on the same page. Randall ran full steam ahead last episode with Beth pulling back the breaks, and now this week it was Randall pulling back to want to discuss it. They're really doing this storyline a disservice. It's way too fast, too soon. I'm not sure why we need to rush through this storyline at lightning speed. It's episode 2, for crying out loud. There's still so many episodes to tell a compelling story for them. 

[Jax7917]

I find Kate to be a very unlikable character. I enjoy teenager Kate, but adult Kate has a problem with every single thing in life that anyone does. Almost every episode that I remember this far, she has been upset and a debbie downer. Everything Toby does is wrong. Everything her mother does is wrong. Everything other random people do is wrong. She auditions for the band and the guy decides to go with someone else as lead singer, so he's wrong as well. I understand she has insecurities, but that doesn't mean she has to be so annoying. And I don't mind Toby for the most part, but his obsession with Kate bugs me. He's just so over the top with declaring his love for her at all times. It's like ok Toby, we get it. You love her.

[Guest]

I think it's clunky how the direction has Rebecca and Jack practically drooling with adoration for the kids and bursting with patience and parenting wisdom, until it serves the story to make one thoughtlessly judgmental and insensitive, like Rebecca was in moments of this episode.  

I don't know how realistic it was that the whole family would attend the taping of a 100th ep of a sitcom Kevin's ashamed of and already quit.  But I guess they have to come up with reasons to get them all together besides holidays.  

When Kevin was going on about Clooney I was hoping Sophie would remind him that even Clooney had painful, stupid moments on The Facts of Life before being Dr. Ross on ER.  

[Jax7917]

Also, if Beth was my sister-in-law, I wouldn't like her. There's something very cold about her in my opinion. She's obviously a good person, but whenever she's on the screen I just feel like she's constantly being bitchy to everyone in her sight. 

[3 is enough]

17 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Also, if Beth was my sister-in-law, I wouldn't like her. There's something very cold about her in my opinion. She's obviously a good person, but whenever she's on the screen I just feel like she's constantly being bitchy to everyone in her sight. 

I get the impression that she only tolerates her in-laws.  There is no evidence of a warm loving relationship with any of them, other than her conversation with Kevin in the latest episode.  I get it.  It's hard not to feel like a second fiddle when you marry into a family like the Pearsons.  We have seen this with Toby to a certain degree.  

Yet she did develop a lovely relationship with William in a short period of time.  Meeting her family might give a little bit of insight into her character, but there are only so many characters the show can support.

[OtterMommy]

3 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

I get the impression that she only tolerates her in-laws.  There is no evidence of a warm loving relationship with any of them, other than her conversation with Kevin in the latest episode.  I get it.  It's hard not to feel like a second fiddle when you marry into a family like the Pearsons.  We have seen this with Toby to a certain degree.  

Based on this season so far, it seems like she only tolerates her husband, as well.  

To be fair, we've barely seen her with Kate and, when we have, they seemed to get along.  So, possibly they get along.  Or maybe not.

[MsChicklet]

3 hours ago, himela said:

I was a fat kid. My mom would not humiliate me or compare me to other kids etc but her expression at times was enough for me to feel bad for my weight - this still goes on and I am 36. My mom is 57 and she is fit, beautiful, social, kind hearted - everything I am not. I can relate to Kate. Her mom was not saying to her "OMG you are fat" but her behavior could very well imply it.

Same here. For me, it's my dad. He loves me, he meant well, but Jesus H. Pearson, did he set me up with some capital-I Issues when it comes to weight, body image and self-worth. He didn't have to say a word (still doesn't) but the raised eyebrow of disapproval and sighs of exasperation said plenty. 

I partially blame Toby for the Kate-Rebecca mess. He knew how Kate felt about her mom judging her. He knew she'd be nervous with her first gig. He heard her tell the family to stay at the taping. Why did he not have the sense to be #TeamKate and tell Rebecca "No"?

Edited October 5, 2017 by MsChicklet

[Jillybean]

For that matter, why didn't Toby leave with Kate? It made no sense for them to drive separately to the Manny taping or to her gig.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Jillybean

[lovetowrite73]

On 10/4/2017 at 3:54 AM, Racj82 said:

I'm sure that would go over well with Kate...and a lot of the viewers.

So, she figures it out on her own? We all know she's not self-aware enough for that. See last week's episode, audition scene.

[JudyObscure]

4 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

So sorry, not sure how the quote was done in error.

If we quote from inside another quote (from the dark area) it will go under the name of the person who copied it.  For example if you take Suunybebe's quote here and put it in your next post it will say Judy Obscure above it.  So you have to go all the way back to Sunnybebe's original post to get it right.

[Racj82]

1 hour ago, lovetowrite73 said:

So, she figures it out on her own? We all know she's not self-aware enough for that. See last week's episode, audition scene.

No, I don't have a problem with Toby suggesting the help. I was just pointing out the field day fans would have because Toby is the one making the suggestion. Also, o don't think Kate would take it well. Couples should be able to their thoughts to one another respectfully but I just how Toby doing almost anything turns out. He's the worst! It seems.

2 hours ago, MsChicklet said:

Same here. For me, it's my dad. He loves me, he meant well, but Jesus H. Pearson, did he set me up with some capital-I Issues when it comes to weight, body image and self-worth. He didn't have to say a word (still doesn't) but the raised eyebrow of disapproval and sighs of exasperation said plenty. 

I partially blame Toby for the Kate-Rebecca mess. He knew how Kate felt about her mom judging her. He knew she'd be nervous with her first gig. He heard her tell the family to stay at the taping. Why did he not have the sense to be #TeamKate and tell Rebecca "No"?

Case and point. 

We know why he didn't leave right away or why he brought Rebecca with him. Because it's a tv show. The drama lays in Rebecca being there and it being a surprise.

I forgot to do my in defense of Toby corner but they literally set up in this episode Toby's goal to win Rebecca over after the holiday incident. So, no he's not going to say her you are not invited to your daughters open Mic. Because he's trying to make sure she likes him. Something everyone does for in laws at some point.

Which is also done to make Toby's comments to Rebecca at the end even stronger. Even with his apprehension to be on Rebecca's bad side, he sided with Kate because he wanted to support Kate. He also has no way of really knowing how that was going to go down. Kate can say certain things about her mom's actions but it's another to see it. Now, when forced to draw a line in the sand again he makes the right choice. For his relationship anyways.