S02.E02: A Manny-Splendored Thing

[AmandaPanda]

Quote

The entire Pearson family visits Kevin on set in Los Angeles for a ``Manny'' taping; Jack confronts his demons in the wake of his fight with Rebecca.

[mtlchick]

(sniff) Alan Thicke :(

"Mommy, have some wine.  You always relax when you drink wine."  (I may have been drinking wine during that time.) 

Lots of moving parts here; we saw where Kevin got his start in being an actor and getting the girl(s) (that awkward moment that Beth was Cyranoed by the white brother she hates); Randalling is a thing on Mean Girls Day; Jack takes up boxing in a button down shirt and Miguel likes small weenies.  

Next week: Frank Stallone's brother!  And yet he's the man that will not appear on screen in a diaper. 

[LaJefaza]

Toby: "Miguel and I get NO LOVE!"

Well someone clearly reads the blogs.

[ShortyMac]

God damn, I love this show.

[Spartan Girl]

Poor Kevin. Parades around in a diaper and half the family ditches his sitcom taping. But at least we saw him without a shirt, LOL.

The Kate/Jack scene at the end killed me.

So now we're starting to see where the mother-daughter tension came from. Kate felt like Rebecca was living vicariously through her. Not to mention it's hard to measure up when your mom is Mandy Moore and still looks 30 when she's 50.

[debraran]

I think the adoption story line is disjointed. Looks like they try an older foster child who is female. Not the best scenario from what I've heard from people in the field. I hope that works out, they both seem very naive to the whole process.

I loved the Kate/Mom storyline and how Toby handled it. Kate and Jack...lots of chemistry there. I think they have more chemistry than any of the other characters. I will miss that.

[pinkelephant3]

So what was that random helicopter scene? I'm guessing that's how Jack dies, Rebecca was picking up his personal effects and that's when the house caught fire. Miguel heroically saves the family from the blaze and wins Rebecca's heart that way. 

[weightyghost]

2 minutes ago, RogerDodger said:

Kevin helping Randall ask Beth out seems to go against everything we've been told about their relationship during their teenage years.

They did mention they were 19 at the time so maybe something shifted after Jack died (but I also don't remember what we've been told previously, just what we've seen of them on the show).

[ShortyMac]

2 minutes ago, pinkelephant3 said:

So what was that random helicopter scene? I'm guessing that's how Jack dies, Rebecca was picking up his personal effects and that's when the house caught fire. Miguel heroically saves the family from the blaze and wins Rebecca's heart that way. 

It was showing Jack land in the jungles of Vietnam during the war.

Edited October 4, 2017 by ShortyMac

[Katy M]

I had a thought watching this episode.  I think Jack put to much on Kate.  She was his emotional support.  That's not fair to do to a kid.  But, as far as Rebecca goes, I think Kate needs to get over herself.  Here's what I saw.  Rebecca gave her helpful advice about holding the last note longer.  Rebecca sang in the shower and Kate overheard her.  Rebecca said she looked great.  And she went to see her sing.  All the problems were caused by Kate's reactions and oversensitivities.  

I liked Toby.  Maybe he shouldnt' have let Rebecca come with him. But, I think he handled the aftereffect well.  And, I think it would be really hard to tell your future mother-in-law, no you can't come because your daughter pretty much hates you.  OK, she doesn't hate her.  

I loved loved loved that Kevin gave Randall his "line" for Beth.  See, Kevin'sn ot always mean to Randall.  Even in the past.

So, the whole family flew cross country to watch Kevin and the only ones that watched were Miguel and the girls.  That's kind of funny.

I like Sophie, but man that was idiotic of her to ask Kevin to do that.  It's not like they were in the privacy of their own home.  Of course that wouldn't go over well.  I'm also not really understanding the episode. What happened to the new manny? Did he take a vacation and old manny had to cover for him?  Whatever.  

Was that a talent contest or just a talent show?  Because if it was a contest and Randall won with a yo you trick, I would not want to be in that house that night.  LOL.

[CleoCaesar]

Already dreading the "troubled foster child" storyline. And preemptively feel bad for Tess and Annie, who are - as far as I can tell - the only drama-free characters on the show.

Seriously though, between Kate, Randall, and Kevin, I don't know who the biggest brat is. And they're in their late 30s. Gah.

[Neurochick]

Sorry but I'm not on team Kate.  Would she have preferred it if her mother had been abusive?

[notcreative enough]

Now I'm always up for a good Rebecca bashing but she did nothing wrong. Oh poor Kate you have a loving and supportive mother I don't know how you stand it. I'll give little Kate a pass because she was well a child with childish feelings. Not as she said a 37 year old woman that wants to blame all her problems on her pretty mommy. Kate needs some serious therapy because she has some deep seeded issues. Are we going to have to deal with this whole singing thing like every week because no thank you. She just isn't that good at. Better then your average person but not someone I want to listen to.

When did Beth develop this dislike of Kevin. I thought she they had a good relationship when he lived with them but now she acting like going to see him is like having her teeth being ripped out.

Aw I'm starting to feel bad for Miguel. They crap in Miguel party needs to go we did it last season and now it just seems petty and mean. At least Toby cares about him and made him his favorite food.

Well another episode where Kevin is there and really does nothing. Acting and spending time with his girlfriend big deal no one cares. He was best last season when he spent most of his time with Randall. 

I get Randall's fear about having a kid that has serious issues and how to deal with that. It's not something that should be taken lightly. I think Beth and Randall can make it work

[Katy M]

6 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

So now we're starting to see where the mother-daughter tension came from. Kate felt like Rebecca was living vicariously through her. Not to mention it's hard to measure up when your mom is Mandy Moore and still looks 30 when she's 50.

I hope shes older than 50 if her kids are 37.  I think she was around thirty when they awere born.  Maybe not quite, but older than 25, so she would have to be at least 62, probably closer to 65.  Yeah, I hope I look like that.  But, I didn't look like Mandy Moore at 27 either, so probably not.

[lovetowrite73]

I would like Toby a whole lot more if he suggested Kate go to therapy. She was SO unfair to her mother!

[SlovakPrincess]

I felt really badly for Rebecca — she can’t even try to be supportive without Kate taking offense.  By 37, Kate should be able to be less super sensitive about her mother ... unless there’s more back story we haven’t seen yet?  

It does seem that Kate and Jack had a very close bond, so I can see how she is having the hardest time dealing with his death ... and maybe resenting Rebecca, however irrationally is part of that.

The Beth / Kevin scene was great.  I didn’t take it as Beth ever really disliking Kevin, just finding him kind of immature and not being particularly close.  

Edited October 4, 2017 by SlovakPrincess

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, notcreative enough said:

I'll give little Kate a pass because she was well a child with childish feelings. Not as she said a 37 year old woman that wants to blame all her problems on her pretty mommy. Kate needs some serious therapy because she has some deep seeded issues. Are we going to have to deal with this whole singing thing like every week because no thank you. She just isn't that good at. Better then your average person but not someone I want to listen to.

I totally agree.  10 year olds are going to be 10 year olds.  But, they usually grow out of it.  I wouldn't mind so much that Kate is jealous of Rebecca.  But, she's just too oversensitive and looking for insults everywhere she sees.  WE know Kate blames herself for her father's death, even if we don't know why.  But, Kate's animosity to Rebecca would make more sense to me if either Rebecca blamed Kate for Jack's death, or if kate blamed Rebecca.  Then we could get some meat into this.  But, now it just looks super petty on Kate's part.  I think she's my least favorite character on the show.  

[methodwriter85]

8 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I hope shes older than 50 if her kids are 37.  I think she was around thirty when they awere born.  Maybe not quite, but older than 25, so she would have to be at least 62, probably closer to 65.  Yeah, I hope I look like that.  But, I didn't look like Mandy Moore at 27 either, so probably not.

I think that's more in reference to 1996 Rebecca, who is about 46 but still looks 30. 2017 Rebecca is about 67, and she looks reasonably like a woman in her late 50's/early 60's due to that fantastic yet subtle age make-up.

I liked that Kevin realized he had a job to do, and he couldn't just blow it off because he would be humiliated.

Edited October 4, 2017 by methodwriter85

[mrsbagnet]

Sometimes being a parent can be such a thankless job. Kate is jealous of her mother, still, at age 37, though by all accounts her life is going great. She was straight up bitchy to Rebecca, who came there to support her. She told her own mother that her very existence had ruined her night and her life. That is so incredibly hurtful, and she didn't even say it in anger, so she can't use that excuse. Toby and Kate come off like bratty assholes. Good thing they are with each other then, I guess.

[Katy M]

Just now, methodwriter85 said:

I liked that Kevin realized he had a job to do, and he couldn't just blew it off because he would be humiliated.

Yeah.  I meant to mention that.  It actually showed a lot of growth on his part.  

[mtlchick]

8 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Sorry but I'm not on team Kate.  Would she have preferred it if her mother had been abusive?

That really grated for me.  She's resentful because Rebecca wanted to be encouraging and cut up her old dress to make a new one for her?  I get feeling that she would never measure up to her mom but geez.  I wished my own mother was a fraction as encouraging instead of constantly comparing me to other kids and reminding me how fat I was. 

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, mrsbagnet said:

Toby and Kate come off like bratty assholes. Good thing they are with each other then, I guess.

What did Toby do?  All he did was say that he wasn't going to get in between them. That was actually the exact right thing to say.  Toby shouldn't have to referee their relationship and neither should ask him to.  That and he made Miguel pigs in a blanket.  And complained nobody liked them. But, he's right, so I can't really consider that complaint bratty.

Just now, mtlchick said:

  She's resentful because Rebecca wanted to be encouraging and cut up her old dress to make a new one for her? 

Actually, she was really excited and happy about the dress.  She didn't get petulant until she heard her mom singing in the shower--better than her.  Oh, the nerve.

[bettername2come]

I love that Kevin helped Randall get Beth. Partially because they didn't get always get along so "Aw, sweet!" and partially because damn, Randall had to have been desperate to get with Beth if he asked Kevin for help. It seems a little off for their relationship, but then teenage Kevin was telling Randall he needed to got on a date at Valentine's day and, if I give teenage Kevin the benefit of the doubt, may have been trying to think of suggestions before that conversation ended so awkwardly.

I totally thought the dress Rebecca made Kate wouldn't fit. I was so happy for her when it looked good, but I felt for young Kate when she heard Mom sing it better. I get why Kate's being overly sensitive and think Rebecca may be trying to live vicariously just a little, but she really didn't do anything wrong and her advice was solid.

I totally thought they were going to kill off the Manny. Who really should stop losing that baby. And they changed his catchphrase. It's supposed to be "Baby say what!"

With three seconds of Vietnam flashbacks, I'm reminded that I need more clean-shaven Milo in my life. I forgot how much I love clean-shaven Milo. And having him box the week before they bring in Sly Stallone defintely reminded me he is Rocky Balboa, Jr.

[J0nas3]

The seldom seen double...shut up Toby/shut up Miguel (he was just being talked about but still.) Even a shut up Rebecca later. I will say though, that that shouldn’t have to be what Kate remembers about her first gig.

 

And, man, Jack & Kate. That hit me right in a personal spot.

[chocolatine]

I never thought I'd say this, but I didn't hate Toby this episode. Well, maybe a little bit when he made the meta comment about Miguel, but I liked him for the first time ever when he told Rebecca he was team Kate all the way. Not that Rebecca wasn't necessarily team Kate - I thought present-day Kate overreacted - but I also have a mother who likes to dispense "well-meaning" criticisms, so I can somewhat sympathize with Kate.

Speaking of Kate, while her voice was better this time, it's impossible to sing Landslide and not pale in comparison to Stevie Nicks. I know original songwriting is too much to ask from this storyline, but maybe do some more creative/unexpected cover interpretations?

After the way Kevin left The Manny, what did he think would happen when he came back, that they'd roll out the red carpet for him? He's hardly Clooney, having done one small play and one movie that's still in production. The Manny's ratings must have dropped after he left, or else they'd have never asked him back.

I'm still not feeling the Randall and Beth storyline. I think they both need to drink some wine.

Edited October 4, 2017 by chocolatine

[SlovakPrincess]

21 minutes ago, ShortyMac said:

It was showing Jack land in the jungles of Vietnam during the war.

I thought it was a flashback to Jack’s dad, showing why he had a drinking problem, and in turn Jack later had a drinking problem.

Edited October 4, 2017 by SlovakPrincess

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

And they changed his catchphrase. It's supposed to be "Baby say what!"

Thanks.  I thought I was insane.  Plus Manny saying "manny say what" doesn't even make sense.  .

[mrsbagnet]

4 minutes ago, Katy M said:

What did Toby do?  All he did was say that he wasn't going to get in between them. That was actually the exact right thing to say.  Toby shouldn't have to referee their relationship and neither should ask him to.  That and he made Miguel pigs in a blanket.  And complained nobody liked them. But, he's right, so I can't really consider that complaint bratty.

Toby was fine this week, but last week he was way out of line with Kevin. Maybe the two of them alternate annoying behavior. I generally find him to be too pushy, and he won't take no for an answer.

[WhosThatGirl]

This episode was just kind of there for me tonight. Maybe I’m just emotionally exhausted from events of yesterday. 

[Jodithgrace]

I remember an episode of 30Something (yes, I'm old) where the lead character, Hope's, parents were coming to visit, and Hope was freaking out much like Kate. Hope described her mother as this overbearing, hyper-critical monster and I was totally shocked when the mother turned out to be perfectly nice. Hope, however, was the monster, twisting everything her mother said, and taking offense. Sometimes a relationship becomes sealed in stone, and it's very hard to break out of the pattern. 

Maybe Rebecca does, subconsciously, wish that Kate were thinner or more talented, or whatever, and Kate can sense it, despite all of the supportive things Rebecca says. Or maybe Kate is just full of it.  But it seems to be a pattern, and maybe only therapy can break it.  

I feel sorry for Kevin, actually. He seems to get the least support. Yes, The Manny is crap, but at least his family could have been there for him. And he did do that humiliating scene, because it was his job, which is growth for him. All of the big three have moments of self absorption and moments when they connect, like Kevin helping Randal when it was important, even if they fought most of the time. I think that's amazingly normal for siblings. 

[BuckeyeLou]

Oh My, the Kate & Jack scenes!  Those left me teary-eyed, I, too, was such a Daddy's girl.  I love the young actress who plays Kate & young Kevin & Randall too.  I think the flashback scenes to Jack's time in Vietnam will go a long way to showing how his drinking developed, even though Jack did not want to end up like his Father.   And Kate & Rebecca's relationship seems a replay of Rebecca's relationship with her own Mother who was hyper-critical.

[bybrandy]

38 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Sorry but I'm not on team Kate.  Would she have preferred it if her mother had been abusive?

I don't think it is about wanting somebody abusive.  And I don't think Rebecca is trying to be abusive.  She's trying to help in a way that is incredibly belittling to somebody who doesn't have a whole lot of confidence.

My sister is a helper.  She's a big helper.  She loves to help.  She loves everybody so much that she just can't help but help.   And really, truly, it has taken me my entire life but I've finally worked out that she's not trying to hurt people when she helps... she just is so sure that she's helping that she doesn't care how it comes off to anybody else.

Case in point.  My sister walks into my house this weekend and says, "oh, I know lets get you some new plates."   She totally was going to spend some serious, serious bank on new plates for my kitchen... because she loves me... and because she wants me to have nice things.  Really.  Honestly.   But having just bought the plates that I currently have, and having bought them because I genuinely like them?  Well, it comes off as, "God, your taste sucks.  Let me fix it."   

This is the most recent example.  It is not the only example.  It is not nearly the only example.

Would I prefer my sister to one who hit me?  Sure.  But is this the first time (at nearly 40) that I just went sure SisBrandy lets go get pedicures instead, though.   Rather than having it make me feel like crap for 3 days.  Hey, nearly 40 years... Kate should be there in 2.5 years.

26 minutes ago, Katy M said:

What did Toby do?  All he did was say that he wasn't going to get in between them.

Seriously, Toby was a rockstar in this episode.  He said exactly the right thing to Rebecca.   And I sort of like that he made pigs in a blanket for Miguel.  I'm still super skeptical about Miguel but it is nice that somebody takes a minute to think about him.

Edited October 4, 2017 by bybrandy

[tennisgurl]

Poor Kevin. No wonder he has self worth issues. No one paid much attention to him when he was growing up, and even now, half the family ditches his show they came to support. He really is always the overlooked one. At least he had a real moment of growth where he did his job even when he was humiliated and didn't want to. I liked that they brought up his fit he through when he quit the Manny, it shows that he has grown at least somewhat since then. Yeah his show sucks, but it was his job after all. 

This show always knows how to get me in the last few scenes. That Jack and little Kate scene! Oh lord, no wonder Kate isn't even close to being really over Jacks death years later. She was such a daddy's girl, and has issues with her mom, even though you can tell Rebecca is really trying to be supportive. It makes me wonder, if Jack hadn't died quite young, things would be better between Kate and Rebecca. 

I know its been longer within the shows timeline, but it seems like Randall and Beth are really rushing towards adopting a child. They only just now told the girls about it! This is a huge, life changing thing (especially taking in an older child who has been exposed to violence, neglect, and abuse) and they should be really, truly ready. I think they'll do a good job, eventually, but I wish they would slow down a bit!

Edited October 4, 2017 by tennisgurl

[pennben]

I'm intrigued by the show adjusting the dials so that Rebecca is not evil and all wrong, Jack had more issues than we thought and, according to Toby, scripted Toby even recognizes that it is possible folks don't like either Toby or Miguel (I will never not see that as a shot at the audience).

For now, I'm hoping that it is as a result of the writers, etc., realizing that they had the dials way out of whack in the first season, and have re-calibrated to tell more nuanced stories.  And, if they keep it up, I'll even allow them to gloat about how they got it right all along, even though I'll never believe it. 

[memememe76]

Teen Kate is a great actress. Perhaps even incredibly beautiful.

I am on Team Rebecca. Rebecca gets so much crap placed on her all of the time. With Kevin and Kate without child and Randall apparently having it easy with his two girls, I wonder if Rebecca wil ever get any appreciation from her children.

I will need that flashback where Young Adult Kevin helps Young Adult Randall connect with Young Adult Beth.

Edited October 4, 2017 by memememe76

[stonehaven]

I loved tonight's episode....loved all the humor and loved all the moments....the Kate/Becca moments were amazing...and eye opening...as I realized that as close and wonderful as my relationship is with my own mother, I did the same thing Kate did about 15 years ago...and slices of that insecurity come up every now and then....It's perception and foisting attitudes that you have on yourself to make them come from others...

It's not fair but it's real...and seeing that tonight made me realize how far my relationship had come...and how honest and real this show truly is....I may not agree with Kate but I've been there...and it takes a few years, a lot more trust and long conversations to make those issues subside....

On a happy note, I love the idea of "Randalling"...

[sadiegirl1999]

I was completely underwhelmed by this episode.

And I'll get lots of hate for this I'm sure but, Sly Stallone stunt casting? Just NO.

I also didn't like the adoption thing. It felt ick to me

[Quickbeam]

1 minute ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

I was completely underwhelmed by this episode.

 

I didn’t like it either, my least favorite episode of the series. It all felt way too disjointed. It annoyed me that everyone felt they could just leave Kevin’s show. 

[Blakeston]

Kate was ridiculously childish in this episode, but I'll give her one thing: Rebecca's comment about how one day she'll be able to power through a crowd was uncalled for.

Why the hell would someone in her position say something like that? You know your daughter is hypersensitive to your criticisms, so why would one of the first things out of your mouth be about how she has room for improvement?

If you want to help her improve, wait until an appropriate time, and find a better way to say it.

[sadiegirl1999]

It really did seem disjointed, Quickbeam!

The commercials every 5 minutes didn't help!

[Eaglemama]

As far as Kevin and his family deserting him, I remember the same thing happened last year with hiis play opening.  Do love the Jack and Kate relationship.

[Crs97]

Wow, I wondered if we would get to the point that Rebecca's mere existence was enough to make her wrong.  What a cruel, awful, mind-blowingly heinous thing Kate said to her mother, and then she blames her mother for "making" her say it and ruining her big night?!?  What we have seen of Kate's torturous childhood with a terrible mother is (1) Rebecca telling her she is beautiful and then Kate realizing she wears a larger size than her mom does, and (2) Rebecca making her a beautiful dress and then Kate realizing her mother can sing better than she can.  Kate has always been a stone cold bitch, but she really took it up a notch tonight.  Could not be more Team Anti-Kate if I tried;  she is truly the worst waste of oxygen and I see no path to redemption.  I couldn't get into how supposedly sweet the Jack/Kate moments were because he couldn't be bothered to defend his wife from the "queen" remark beyond a wimpy "be nicer to your mother, Kate."  Too bad she couldn't have been in the fire with him.

Stupid of Sophie to ask him to recreate his speech and then laugh when he is caught.  I didn't like her either tonight.

I love the twist that Kevin was Randall's cyrano.  Beth was being ultra rude to/about Kevin tonight so I loved that she knows now she fell for all the lines of someone she clearly thinks is beneath her.  That was a very sweet moment from Kevin about his brother.  Almost made up for his continuing rudeness to Miguel for wanting a selfie.  

I liked Toby.

[notcreative enough]

7 minutes ago, Eaglemama said:

As far as Kevin and his family deserting him, I remember the same thing happened last year with hiis play opening.  Do love the Jack and Kate relationship.

Yeah I feel like Kevin's family always bails on him. He is super well adjusted for a guy how seemed to have no real individual attention from his parents. Hell the kid almost drowned himself and his parents were so busy with the other kids. No wonder he is so connected to his childhood girlfriend she seems to be the only one that notices him. We had Kate and Randall be calling out Rebecca and as much as I don't want to pile on but Kevin is the one that I want to see call her out for her lack of attention. 

[elle]

1 hour ago, SlovakPrincess said:

1 hour ago, ShortyMac said:

It was showing Jack land in the jungles of Vietnam during the war.

I thought it was a flashback to Jack’s dad, showing why he had a drinking problem, and in turn Jack later had a drinking problem.

It could be a little confusing the way they sequenced that.  It seemed to me it was going backwards - Jack back living at home, watching his dad drink; then Jack in Vietnam deploying from a "Jolly Green Giant" helicopter (CH-3 /HH-3 or CH-53 and HH-53, I think).   My take away was that Jack had multiple traumas in his life and turned to drinking to cope.  This all makes me ask a timeline question.  When did Jack serve?  How long had Jack been home before he and Rebecca get married?  And the kids were born in 1980, right?

It may have been the eyeliner, but when young Kate "looked" at her dad when said to be nicer to her mom, that was a dead on snap shot of the look older Kate gave her mother.  Great job casting that girl!

Beth and Randall - she was not listening to his concerns just as he had not been listening to her in the previous episode.  Unless both were on the same page, in sync, etc then one would hope they would take some time to review their decision instead of having to do anything RIGHT NOW.

The mother/daughter dynamic - fraught with mines even in the best of relationships.  

I could see a psychology professor using this show to illustrate concepts to their students.

Edited October 4, 2017 by elle

[Lady Calypso]

I'm trying to figure out what Kate's exact issue with Rebecca was in the present day. I know she kind of explained it, but I was as confused as Rebecca was. Clearly, Kate has some deep issues from childhood that she hasn't dealt with. I mean, I understand little Kate. But I do think that Kate is overly sensitive to the point that she is overreacting to things that aren't Rebecca's fault. I felt bad for Rebecca, who was just trying to be encouraging and supportive. Maybe she is subconsciously belittling Kate, but I also believe that Kate has a different view than Rebecca and her bias has carried over into adulthood. Kate and Rebecca need therapy together. 

Meanwhile, Kevin shows some growth by doing his job as the Manny, even with a humiliating scene. I guess Sophie is good for him. Also, I felt bad that, once again, Kevin's family end up leaving before his filming's done. It's not that they needed to stay and they did show up. It's just becoming somewhat of a pattern where everyone seems to have other things to do instead of supporting Kevin.

I did love Kevin/Beth's scene. Those are the scenes I want to see more of. 

I also liked Toby/Rebecca's scene. It's one of the rare times I like Toby...or don't outright hate him. 

Kate/Jack's scene was well done. I'm still waiting for a Kevin/either parent scene, though. Just more Kevin, honestly. This should have been his episode, his night, and the Randall, Kate, and Rebecca stuff overshadowed him, once more. 

I think Randall and Beth are not on the same page regarding adoption/fostering and they need to be. Or else they shouldn't do it at all. 

[WhosThatGirl]

I feel like Rebecca gets so much hate and Kate’s shout of how Rebecca just existing was painful. How the hell is someone supposed to respond to that?!?! Really. And I’m sorry unlike Toby I’m actually not on Team Kate, I get that he has to be but I don’t and she really made me angry this episode.

[CofCinci]

This was a filler episode that barely maintained my attention.  So far, the series is sophomore slumpin’ It.  Since the show runners obviously read comments:

Jack and Kate seem really enmeshed to me.  We get it  — they had an awesome father/daughter relationship.

Stop trying to make Sophie happen.  I don’t see any chemistry between Sophie and Kevin.  They’re putting this character in every scene.  Next time they flashback to the maternity ward, she’ll be in the basket next to Kevin!

Does Kate really need to sing?  Ugh.  I’d rather watch her at fitness camp being hit on by the inappropriate camp counselor than to blerg through another cover.

Can Toby die already?  Please.

[Amethyst]

The "Toby and Miguel get no love!" line had me snickering.  

I'm starting to like Sophie.  It helps that we can see the bond between them vs everyone just talking about it.  It was sweet how she was there for Kevin in the end.  Her presence made something humiliating into something bearable.

Also liked that scene between Beth and Kevin.  They have an interesting relationship and I wish we had more scenes of all of them interacting instead of being in their separate worlds.  Of course Kevin was feeding Randall those cheesy lines.  

I think they were trying to show the differing perspectives for Kate and Rebecca.  Kate sees her beautiful mother whose talents eclipse her own, while we see Rebecca hard at work trying to turn something that meant a lot to her (the dress) into something special for her daughter.  As adults, Kate still hears criticism when Rebecca means encouragement.  

 

51 minutes ago, notcreative enough said:

I'll give little Kate a pass because she was well a child with childish feelings. Not as she said a 37 year old woman that wants to blame all her problems on her pretty mommy. Kate needs some serious therapy because she has some deep seeded issues.

This.  And that whiny "Great, now you've made me say mean things" was just ridiculous.  I was glad Rebecca didn't retort, because I'm hoping it forces Kate to realize just how cruel she was.  Rebecca probably was pushy back then, but she wants her daughter to be happy, and even now, she can see how insecure Kate is around her.  So Rebecca feels bad, and for once, she really shouldn't.  Kate was in the wrong and owes her mother an apology.

I'm glad that Randall and Beth are back on the same page, because I'm not feeling this foster plot at all.  All the yo-yo'ing was tiresome.

[Cardie]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

but I also have a mother who likes to dispense "well-meaning" criticisms, so I can somewhat sympathize with Kate.

I had this sort of vexed relationship with my mother and it never healed. I was a Daddy's girl, like Kate, and he was very sensitive to any criticism my mom directed at him--and she tended to give accurate evaluations of her family rather than try to buck us up with reassurance when we failed. So I was conditioned to believe that everything she said was a criticism and became defensive like Kate was. I think Kate admitted that it wasn't really Rebecca's intention to undermine her. Just the fact that her mother was pretty, thin, and talented, and Kate would never match those qualities, was enough to poison the relationship. I suspect there is some competition in regard to her father as well. some Oedipal undercurrents.

[LadyNebula]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

 

Speaking of Kate, while her voice was better this time, it's impossible to sing Landslide and not pale in comparison to Stevie Nicks. I know original songwriting is too much to ask from this storyline, but maybe do some more creative/unexpected cover interpretations?

 

I actually liked it. I'm a huge FM/Stevie fan, and Landslide is a favorite, so I was rolling my eyes at first. But I found the arrangement to be lovely, and enjoyed Chrissy's performance. I did find it to be an odd choice though, as that song really is best suited for a contralto, which Chrissy is not (hence the arrangement).

Edited October 4, 2017 by LadyNebula