S13.E10: The Men Tell All

[yorklee2]

5 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

The other guys were doing the "We're not worthy" motion!

Like yes I think Dean is a dream and a half but what was that all about?!

Yes and from what I saw Alex was the most enthusiastic about it. It reminds me of the Scandinavian group date where they had the faux Viking battles and the clips of them having so much playful fun with it. Apparently they developed a close comradery. I like to see that between contestants. Like Rachel and Raven from last season.

I think they may have been acknowledging the guts and strength it took him to have that stressful hometown date with his father. Or that's my take on it.

ETA: Also it came to mind that they could have good naturedly been teasing him because he's been so well received and gained a, ( I would think) sizeable fan base.

Edited August 1, 2017 by yorklee2

[jumper sage]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Kenny was being diplomatic because he was on television and he knows how much certain people freak out when you say the word 'racist' in public.  Unfortunately minorities are often forced to minimize their experiences and keep quiet because many people don't like to be reminded of their major privilege or face being educated in these types of situations.  That's my theory, anyway.  

Anyone who felt Lee was targeted unfairly may not have seen his tweets that have been screen grabbed.  His racism went far beyond what Chris H. read.  He attacks feminism, gay rights, religious diversity and more.  ETA:  Just saw that Lee's favorite movie is Gone With the Wind.  Of course it is.

1 hour ago, Kira53 said:

I think it was very smart of Kenny to say that he didn't think that Lee's behavior was based upon racism.  Kenny has an entertainment career to be concerned about and when he gets interviews he doesn't want to be discussing Lee for the rest of his career.

I agree.  I was shopping at the dollar store looking for a specific item and was with one of my best friends, who happens to be black.  The clerk was bugging the shit out of me following me and asking if they could help me. I  firmly stated that the clerk need not follow me around and if I need help I would ask.  My friend actually left the store and was stunned.  I quickly realized I had made a mistake and went outside to apologize.  Even the most liberal, well thinking white person has no idea of what black people go through every day.  She tried to make me feel better by stating she could not see why Italian mothers adore their sons like they are hanging on the cross.  It was a tiny comparison but we both laughed.  It was kind of her to say.

Edited August 1, 2017 by jumper sage

[Nowhere]

I DO NOT feel bad for Lee. He got what he deserved and what he needed. Maybe now he'll do some research, think before he tweets, and raise his own children better than his parents raised him. 

[yorklee2]

10 hours ago, Nowhere said:

I DO NOT feel bad for Lee. He got what he deserved and what he needed. Maybe now he'll do some research, think before he tweets, and raise his own children better than his parents raised him. 

I agree. I stated from I think the first (possibly second) episode that I didn't like Lee. This was even before the Kenny drama. I knew he was a troublemaker and shit stirrer. The things he has said and done are inexcusable in my opinion. But being from the south another reason he made me irate is the stereotypical image that he reinforced of southern people being predominately racist. There are pockets of people who still hold on to their racist views but most are not that way at all. Or at least not the majority of people I know. So in my view that's another group he needs to apologize to. And as I've stated before I hate when the actions of a few are misinterpreted to represent a whole region. I hope he has sincerely learned a valuable lesson from this but I have my doubts.

Edited August 1, 2017 by yorklee2

[backformore]

4 hours ago, AllyCat7 said:

I cannot speak for all of Lee's actions because I didn't watch the entire season. But I didn't like how the men practically forced him to admit he is racist when he may not feel that way. His tweet, although wildly ignorant, isn't in itself racist. He obviously doesn't know what the NAACP does and needs to be educated about it. But what he wrote is different from someone saying something like "all black people are like this or that". He was ignorant and uneducated and a fool to speak on things he was ignorant about. But for people to force him to admit that he is a racist was rather extreme. That is not something to put on someone unless you are 100% certain of it, as it can really ruin someone's reputation...and I don't think there was evidence to pin that on him 100%. Even Kenny admitted as much. So why was it ok for all the guys on The Men Tell All to bully him into admitting that? Not cool.

no - his tweets were straight-up racist and sexist. 

The KKK has a history of murdering African-Americans.   Lee HAS to know that.  he might not know much about the NAACP, but it's not an organization devoted to killing white people, so his comparison is racist. 

he sees the two organizations as Whites hating Blacks, and Blacks hating Whites.   that makes him an ignorant racist fool. 

His behavior on the show, his GLEE about riling up Kenny and then lying about him being aggressive, was also racist.   there is something despicable about a man who has racist attitudes going on a show to date a Black woman.  I wonder about his intentions. 

[waving feather]

I would be down for Dean as the Bachelor. As a wrong reasons watcher, I think it would be an entertaining mess. Who cares if he's too young or immature, heh. Anyone is better than dullard Peter. At least Dean has personality and is one of the most gorgeous guys on this show. His eyes twinkle when he smiles!

[Suzysite]

6 hours ago, ridethemaverick said:

I hate that this turned into the Lee show. Zzzzzzzz

Yep.  I turned if off halfway through.  MTA is never my cup of tea anyway.

[hyacinth]

I think Rachel wanted to look like a successful Bachelorette and that got in the way of her considering the men's feelings.    Adam and Matt and Dean all thought they were legitimate contenders.   And why was that?  Because Rachel made them feel as if she was truly interested in them -- just like players do.  And why did (non-player) Ben get raked over the coals for falling hard for two women?   

On the other hand, who cares?   It's just a show, and all the men get mad mojo in their hometowns if they look good on the show.   Women everywhere probably wonder what's behind Matt's quiet graciousness, and just what Diggy's shoe closet looks like.     

Edited August 1, 2017 by hyacinth

[JudyObscure]

My Kenny love just grows every time he speaks, he is my all time favorite bachelor.  He is that ideal man who is very strong and confident, but at the same time very gentle, and wise as well as intelligent.  So when he said that Lee was all of his depth, I could suddenly see that for the truth it was.  Lee is dumb.  He carries himself with that hillbilly swagger and smart aleck chatter that you can see all over the internet by uninformed, uneducated  young men who have heard Rush Limbaugh say something on their grandpa's radio and thought it sounded clever.  "Feminists are ugly," is as old as the movement and spoken by threatened men who don't even understand what the word means.  All Lee knows about the NAACP is that the name says something about the advancement of colored people and he knows the KKK is all about white people so he thinks both groups are only interested in people of one color and don't care about anyone else.  So in his simple brain they are the flip side of each other.   Yes, he's very wrong and of course he should do research before he makes statements but that would mean reading and I doubt if he's into that.  He probably is racist on a deep level from things he's heard in the background since he was a baby.  He may try to change or he may slide back into his old ways of thinking.  In any case he's just one little skinny redneck against a great institution.  The NAACP is not hurt.

What AllyCat and I don't like is a dogpile and that's exactly what that was.  It went on and on and on.  It was most of the show and it was extremely unpleasant.  Once Lee had been called out and quotes from his social media sites were put on the screen   ( things that weren't even on the show) and Lee had apologized and admitted he was wrong and said he was sorry,  I expected them to move on. But then another man would start on him, and then another one, and then he would try to apologize again.  These men who I liked very much were starting to look judgmental  and smug, because twenty against one is never a good look, no matter how wrong the one on the bottom is. Lee is a small person in every sense of the word and the other men were larger in every sense, bigger more polished and much smarter.

 Chris noticed that Lee's hands were shaking and I thought he was stating to cry at one point. Then we would have a commercial and come back to more Lee bashing and finally even Rachel was promising to take him backstage and give him lessons for which the audience cheered, bringing themselves into the angry mob frenzy. And he had apologized to her twice.   The Lee beat down was almost the whole show up until the bloopers and it was not fun, I started to cry at one point.  By the time it was over I didn't like anyone there.

[waving feather]

12 minutes ago, hyacinth said:

Adam and Matt and Dean all thought they were legitimate contenders.   And why was that?  Because Rachel made them feel as if she was truly interested in them -- just like players do.   How is she different than Bob Guiney in that regard?   And why did (non-player) Ben get raked over the coals for falling hard for two women?   

The lead always has to be the player and Rachel is no different. The show only works if there is some degree of playing and I don't blame the leads for that. The contestants knew what they were signing up for. The same goes for her Final One. If he doesn't like her kissing everyone, tough lucky, that's the show. 

Ben H. was also a "player". I remember when he eliminated Caila, even though she didn't spell it out, she seemed to be implying that he slept with her.

The thing with Rachel is those guys do not see her time with other men. If they did, they would have known they had no chance and she has already zeroed in on Bryan and Peter.

[nlkm9]

8 hours ago, awaken said:

 Definitely looked like Kenny was auditioning to be the bachelor! You know how this show loves to explore the single parent angle!   Too tempting for them to resist. 

 Lee's body language spoke volumes. He was very stiff, leaning back away from whoever he was talking to. 

 I'm thinking either she doesn't choose one of the final three, orthey break up soon and she goes for Kenny, Fred, Or one of those other great  guys 

I think kenny would be an excellent bachelor--very good looking, great personality, good father.....as much as i want a new person not from the franchise, I like Kenny the best!!! and yes its time for an aa bachelor:)

[leighdear]

1 hour ago, Suzysite said:

Yep.  I turned if off halfway through.  MTA is never my cup of tea anyway.

I only made it through 24 minutes before I ditched it for American Ninja Warrior.  Now that's a REAL competition!  *LOL*

[nutty1]

My takeaway on the MTA?? Just as the rest of the season, way too much time spent on Lee!!!!! And not enough on Matt & Adam. They should have shown us some clips of each of them with her.
Dean......really the only highlight of the MTA!! What a great guy he is.

 

 

8 hours ago, ridethemaverick said:

After Dean's social media shenanigans, I have no desire to see him as the next bachelor. 

I hate that this turned into the Lee show. Zzzzzzzz

I really haven't followed any of them on SM this season. What did Dean do?

Edited August 1, 2017 by nutty1

[hyacinth]

2 hours ago, waving feather said:

The lead always has to be the player and Rachel is no different.

To me, I thought she carried it further than other contestants.   It is a rare Bachelor/ette who tells more than 1 contestant that they are falling in love with them.  

Edited August 1, 2017 by hyacinth

[TomGirl]

6 hours ago, jumper sage said:

I agree.  I was shopping at the dollar store looking for a specific item and was with one of my best friends, who happens to be black.  The clerk was bugging the shit out of me following me and asking if they could help me. I  firmly stated that the clerk need not follow me around and if I need help I would ask.  My friend actually left the store and was stunned.  I quickly realized I had made a mistake and went outside to apologize.  Even the most liberal, well thinking white person has no idea of what black people go through every day.  She tried to make me feel better by stating she could not see why Italian mothers adore their sons like they are hanging on the cross.  It was a tiny comparison but we both laughed.  It was kind of her to say.

I understand that you didn't grasp the situation, but I don't see that you did or said anything that called for an apology. Please elaborate.

[mostlylurking]

9 hours ago, ridethemaverick said:

After Dean's social media shenanigans, I have no desire to see him as the next bachelor.

What were Dean's social media shenanigans??

[JoBeth70]

9 hours ago, ridethemaverick said:

After Dean's social media shenanigans, I have no desire to see him as the next bachelor. 

I hate that this turned into the Lee show. Zzzzzzzz

Do tell...

[waving feather]

Guessing @ridethemaverick is referring to this? deanie_babies is his Instagram handle. Then Rachel replied to that post also.

[nutty1]

I am not understanding what is wrong with that tweet. Didn't Dean just say he thought Rachel's caption was funny??

[NaughtyKitty]

Sorry...but I don't see how that is racist.  He is allowed to date ladies of whatever color skin he wants to and he wasn't the one that even made the comment in the first place. I think this is a stretch to label hi as a racist.  I do't see it.  He seems like a really sweet kid who just wants to be loved.

[Palomar]

10 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

Oh well I guess we won't get to see his handsome face as Bach and what he said makes a lot of sense. Actually makes me like him that much more for being perceptive enough to realize that. But still..would have been nice to see him as lead. Maybe he will reconsider if next season's bachelors are all duds and he's not seriously involved with someone. We can always hope.

When was that interview?  Maybe after his experience on BIP he feels differently now.  I am assuming that the filming is already over.  Of course have no idea if he finds a gf on BIP.  I kind of see them going with Dean (if he changes his mind) or possibly Kenny and playing up the single father thing ala the Jason season.

[TomGirl]

Did anyone else predict that Kenny's daughter would be there?  I felt like I could see that coming from a mile away.

[Venee]

OMG! one hour of the wrestler vs the racists I was so bored. Dean said everything that needed to be said, the rest kept reinventing the wheel so to speak.... btw Dean is the truth, which is why I trust him about Bryan...

 

Lastly, because this segment was a waste, the entire time I was yelling at my screen "Where is Blake K!" 

That's all I got..

Edited August 1, 2017 by Venee

[yorklee2]

6 hours ago, Palomar said:

When was that interview?  Maybe after his experience on BIP he feels differently now.  I am assuming that the filming is already over.  Of course have no idea if he finds a gf on BIP.  I kind of see them going with Dean (if he changes his mind) or possibly Kenny and playing up the single father thing ala the Jason season.

I have no idea when the interview was as I didn't see it. I was referring to the post by @jacklyn88 where she stated she had saw the interviews. It's on page one. You could ask her. 

I actually think it looked as though they were auditioning both Dean and Kenny. As though they are keeping their options open. I really wish they would stop going with just their top 4 to pick their next lead. I think many viewers have favorites and like many of these men who don't make top 4. Like move it back to top 10. It's like they underestimate how much the viewers really like and identify with more than just the final few. Oftentimes their finalists are not as popular for various reasons than the ones who were eliminated before them. Like this season. I like Eric and Peter but Eric seems a little immature and Peter is boring. And please not Bryan. I have no interest in seeing his swarmy lines and suck face. 

I think most viewers have no problem with identifying and remembering the top 10. I for one wouldn't mind seeing Alex as the lead. Why do they always have to have this sob story back line to qualify for the spot. If anything the earlier ones have more time to get over any hurt or attachments they may have developed with the lead. Plus if they would broaden the playing field I think it would be more fun speculating for us viewers.

Edited August 1, 2017 by yorklee2

[Bobcatkitten]

Way too much Lee last night. Which I attribute to the fact that they didn't have the third place guy to talk to. Usually it's down to two men for the men tell all. 

[mostlylurking]

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Once Lee had been called out and quotes from his social media sites were put on the screen   ( things that weren't even on the show) and Lee had apologized and admitted he was wrong and said he was sorry,  I expected them to move on. But then another man would start on him, and then another one

Yeah, I really didn't like that either.  Not that Lee didn't deserve the wrath of these men, he definitely did.  He made the statements he made, both on social media and on the show, and now he had to face the consequences.  I didn't feel bad for him at all, but it did get to the point where there wasn't much more he could say.  I question if he was being sincere, but he did apologize, multiple times.  Then someone else would start in, and again he would apologize.  I understand what the other men were trying to do, but what more was there to say in that moment?  Again, he totally deserved it, but it wasn't very entertaining to watch.  Kind of like his time on the show, so I guess this was a fitting end.

[slade3]

Dean says he isn't ready to be the next bachelor. I liked what Dean had to say about his father's religion and tolerance. I could see him being the next bachelor.

While I think Kenny had many of the right ingredients to be the next bachelor, his downfall could be his inability to pull back on the cursing when he's feeling emotional. They kept bleeping him last night when he was addressing Lee. While I doubt he'd have a reason to curse as the bachelor, I think it would be seen as a strike against him by ABC execs. 

[JenE4]

1 hour ago, TomGirl said:

Did anyone else predict that Kenny's daughter would be there?  I felt like I could see that coming from a mile away.

That was one of the few questions I got correct in The Bachelorette Fantasy League (through the ABC site).

[chocolatine]

I call bullshit on Lee's "contrition", and Rachel did too. He probably thought the show would give him a platform to become an alt-right pundit like Tomi Lahren or Milo Yiannopoulos, and when that didn't work out, he just ended up looking like an idiot. Last night's apologies were damage control.

I could have done without seeing Kenny's daughter. She's adorable, but I don't watch this show to see cute children.

DeMario is still a cocky bastard, Whaboom is still a waste of oxygen, and if TPTB were only going to have one Blake on TMTA, I'd rather it had been Hot Blake who went home on night one.

[timesywimesy]

I'm encouraged that Kenny wasn't invited or either didn't accept the always skeevy BIP gig. 

That (probably uselessly ) gives one hope that the gentle giant might still be in the running to be the next Bach. Girls can dream. 

[StatisticalOutlier]

13 hours ago, AllyCat7 said:

I know it's a ridiculous comparison, but I know what the NAACP is. Maybe he never heard about it until recently...maybe he grew up very sheltered and in a homogeneous environment. He was a buffoon to speak of something he had no idea about. But I still don't think that makes him racist. He didn't say anything derogatory towards black people as a race. he just made a really stupid and ignorant statement about something that he knows nothing about.

Even if he didn't know what the NAACP is--who would take the Klan's side on anything?  That's not just ignorance about what it's being compared to.

But does anybody know what he meant about only half the tweet coming out?  I don't twitter.

And I wish we would have heard if he answered the question, "Why did you come on the show if you knew the bachelorette was black?"

[Chick2Chic]

27 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I call bullshit on Lee's "contrition", and Rachel did too.

Same. I'm beyond tired of him getting any focus at this point, but I also think that they guys' in the house had some genuine grievances that needed airing about Lee's shit-stirring behavior and racist behavior.

I enjoyed Diggy's live-tweet contributing additional commentary and tidbits about the Men Tell All ep. 

[Palomar]

2 hours ago, slade3 said:

Dean says he isn't ready to be the next bachelor. I liked what Dean had to say about his father's religion and tolerance. I could see him being the next bachelor.

While I think Kenny had many of the right ingredients to be the next bachelor, his downfall could be his inability to pull back on the cursing when he's feeling emotional. They kept bleeping him last night when he was addressing Lee. While I doubt he'd have a reason to curse as the bachelor, I think it would be seen as a strike against him by ABC execs. 

Thanks for the link SLADE3.  I noticed that even though Dean said he wasn't ready, he left the door open a bit for the possibility.

[backformore]

7 hours ago, hyacinth said:

To me, I thought she carried it further than other contestants.   It is a rare Bachelor/ette who tells more than 1 contestant that they are falling in love with them.  

I disagree.  the premise of the show, which is indeed ridiculous, is that every one of those guys will be "in love"  with the lead, and ready to propose if chosen.  

[call me ishmael]

3 minutes ago, backformore said:

I disagree.  the premise of the show, which is indeed ridiculous, is that every one of those guys will be "in love"  with the lead, and ready to propose if chosen.  

Isn't that different though.  The question isn't whether the guys will say they are in love but whether the lead does?  Usually the leads are pretty skimpy with that even as they demand to hear it from their minions (oops, future spouses).

[hyacinth]

deleted post. eom.

Edited August 1, 2017 by hyacinth

[ridethemaverick]

7 hours ago, waving feather said:

Guessing @ridethemaverick is referring to this? deanie_babies is his Instagram handle. Then Rachel replied to that post also.

Yes this is it. He apologized earlier today but the damage is done for me.

[After7Only]

16 hours ago, cryptaknight said:

 For me, it was very telling that he looked utterly confused when Anthony was trying to point out to him that he may have innate prejudices that he's unaware of simply because of the way he grew up and that he needs to unlearn them. Then Lee had the gall to respond to Anthony with the well known backhanded compliment about how well-spoken Anthony was. God almighty. Lee has no interest in bettering anything other than his public image. He's lucky the rest of the men decided to go high and hug it out or whatever.  

This.... As soon as he said it I knew all of Lee's contrition was an act.    

A lot of people want to label Lee is ignorant.  He even tried to blame his actions on ignorance.  But what we saw on the show, was someone who was very calculated.  A master of manipulation and passive aggressive tactics. He knew what he was doing, when he kept pushing the Kenny is violent narrative.  He knew what he was doing pushing Eric's buttons and labeling him violent.  And I'm pretty sure he knew what he was doing when he commented on Anthony being well-spoken.  Those were not the actions of a culturally ignorant person.

Will (I think it was him) even tried during the show to explain to him the racial implications of labeling a black man violent.  He didn't seem to be all that receptive to learning cultural sensitivity then.  Instead he accused Kenny of playing the race card.  But now, we're supposed to believe the poor little ignorant Lee story....  NOPE!

[ChiBurbsMama]

Quote

Being ignorant about what the NAACP does to the point that you compare it to the KKK does not automatically make someone a racist. He's just ignorant and has really bad judgement. Him googling what the NAACP does would have cleared things up for him, but he didn't, and, for that, he's stupid. 

I don't for one second buy that Lee was "ignorant about what the NAACP does" as he claims (ignorance as an excuse is popular these days). Your argument is based IMO on a faulty premise. With his original tweet he was clearly drawing an alternative-facts comparison, saying that NAACP was just as hateful and biased toward white people as the KKK is hateful and biased to black people. What he was probably REALLY going for was Black Lives Matter vs. KKK -- that comparison was pretty widely thrown about in last summer's rampant "whatabout-ism" that was all the rage (and continues to this day among ignorant trolls in Comments sections across the internet). He knew exactly what he was saying then and to claim otherwise now is (word-of-the-season) disingenuous.

Edited August 1, 2017 by ChiBurbsMama
typo

[fib]

Lee is not sincere in his contrition.  How do I know? At one point he responded "I hate racism". It was part of his explanation as to why he posted the KKK vs NAACP, as well as part of his facebook post getting cut off when it went to twitter.  

If you think that the NAACP, by providing scholarships to African American college students and defending the civil and voting rights of Black people is racist?  You may just have a deep seated implicit bias against black people.  

Kenny is hysterical- did you guys cath him videobombing deans talking head at one moment? So funny.  

No one will be picked/ announced as the Bachelor til after BIP. Dean was given the apparent audition because he was the most loved candidate of the eliminated men, but with 3 hot men still in the running for Rachel? Fleiss will wait. The #3 guy is the classic pick: Ben Higgins, Chris Soules, Sean Lowe.  

They wont pick another top tenner anytime soon.   Juan Pablo ruined that for the top ten also rans.   Producers want to know what they are going to get, and an early exit is just too much of a personality unknown. 

Edited August 1, 2017 by fib

[SnapeCharmer]

19 hours ago, Kira53 said:

When they did the little mini summaries of Rachel 's relationship with the final three I think Bryan really got the winners edit.  It seem like the editors were trying to make us fall in love with Bryan's relationship with Rachel when you know a lot of us are in love with Peter for Rachel or Peter for ourselves.  I know I'd rather wait and see if I could get the whole package with Peter then to go for the hot sex with Bryan.   I don't know, it just looks like the relationship with Brian will burn very brightly until it burns out but the relationship was in a growth arc  with Peter. To me he showed real interest real listening real mental and emotional connection as well as sexual attraction. Others say something else. I just know you love someone from the first minute it can burn brightly and burn out quick because there's nowhere else to go but down.

 I do hope that it does work out for Bryan and Rachel.  It's just a TV show for us, although it's real life for them.  I just know the editors don't allow us to be privy to so much.  Perhaps Brian had a deeper relationship with Rachel than we we saw. Apparently Matt and Adam had a lot more going with herand we never saw any of that. I do like how they presented themselves tonight and I really wish we had gotten to know them during the season.

You are the first person in any discussions I've read on this show that has admitted that. Most of the Peter mania to me is about some women being in love with him, not for Rachel, but for themselves.

[SnapeCharmer]

18 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Kenny was being diplomatic because he was on television and he knows how much certain people freak out when you say the word 'racist' in public.  Unfortunately minorities are often forced to minimize their experiences and keep quiet because many people don't like to be reminded of their major privilege or face being educated in these types of situations.  That's my theory, anyway.  

Yes! Also, notice that things didn't heat up as much toward Lee, until Dean spoke up. I could tell the Black suitors didn't feel as comfortable going all in on Lee at first. Not until Dean presented a gateway. As much as that disturbs me, I've seen this happen all the time in the everyday world. In Hollywood we've see it a lot too. People are afraid to lose future opportunities if they call out racism when they see and hear it. ABC should be shamed as much as Lee. They knew what he was about and invited him on the show featuring the first Black Bachelorette. Pure exploitation. The sad thing is that they will keep lining their pockets and not have to deal with the real world implications of their actions. Rachel, the cast, and those of us that live with it everyday, will.

[seacliffsal]

I'm blaming the producers for casting Lee.  The texts I saw last night were all dated prior to the shooting of this season (I may have missed some, but the ones I was able to read were all from 2016).  The producers were looking to create drama and they did.  So, regarding Chris Harrison's reactions to Lee's texts-you knew it before you cast him: dial down the outrage as this was exactly what you were looking for.  Please be clear-I am not defending Lee; I am just frustrated that the producers knowingly brought in someone with racist viewpoints in order to manufacture "drama" in this season of the first African-American lead.

I do not want a Bachelor with a child.  I did not like Jason or Emily's seasons as I just don't think they should bring children into this venue.  I think there is too much opportunity for the children to get hurt; if they keep their children completely out of it I am okay with it.  Of course, what I think about involving children in this 'journey' or 'process' is of little concern to the producers...

I fast forwarded most of this episode as I did not want to relive the "Lee Show."  I think there were probably some lovely men that we never got to know because the producers wanted to focus on Lee both during the season and last night.

[Primetimer]

The men discuss their time on the season and finally solve racism.

View the full article

[Ohwell]

8 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

I do not want a Bachelor with a child.  I did not like Jason or Emily's seasons as I just don't think they should bring children into this venue.  I think there is too much opportunity for the children to get hurt; if they keep their children completely out of it I am okay with it.  Of course, what I think about involving children in this 'journey' or 'process' is of little concern to the producers...

I agree.  As much as I like Kenny, I do not want to see him as the Bachelor, and as nice and sweet as his little girl seems to be, I do not want or need to see her again.  

[Bnwcat]

19 hours ago, cryptaknight said:

I don't feel one iota sorry for Lee. In fact, I wish they would have taken the time to dig into some of his misogyny, as well. 

Yes, thank you! I was waiting for the guys to tackle the "ugly feminists" tweet, but I guess that's too much to ask for in this show. Sigh.

[Ripley68]

No announcement on next Bachelor.....So I'm guessing they've decided on Peter (or Brian if we're all blind sided)...or the other option, wanted to see who public reacted to most on MTA

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, Ripley68 said:

No announcement on next Bachelor.....So I'm guessing they've decided on Peter (or Brian if we're all blind sided)...or the other option, wanted to see who public reacted to most on MTA

I looked back when this was announced in the past and it looks like the end of August.  I guess last year it was around the time when Bachelor In Paradise ended.  The Bachelorette needs to be announced rather quickly because filming begins pretty quickly after The Bachelor ends in order to air in the summer but the next Bachelor won't start filming until fall for a January/Feb debut.

[Koala]

For the most part this episode left me exhausted, and not in a good way. The fact that they spent 80% of the time taking turns 'educating' and obsessing over Lee was unpleasant and overwhelming. As other posters have mentioned, I really wish they had let Kenny and maybe one other person say their piece about (and to) Lee, and then moved on. Instead, it turned into a weird, mob-like frenzy of who could get the next word in about racism, African American history, and the civil war -- all topped with the cherry of Rachel saying she wanted him to "exit stage left so that [they could] take it back stage" (which sounded more like an invitation to fight rather than a history lesson). 

 

Look, we all get that Lee is and was an a-hole. Most viewers figured that out a month ago. Most of us also know that a lot of his tweets are misogynistic and/or racist.  Many of us already disliked him before the Tell All. I don't like the guy, but 20 versus 1 is never a fair fight, and I didn't want nor need to see it on my television for 30 minutes. They succeeded in humiliating him, but if they were truly concerned about educating him on the error of his thinking, I think a lot of people missed the ball park. Yelling at a man in front of an audience on National TV to the point where he is about to cry, is not going to change his mind about anything. The only one who handled it with grace tonight was Kenny, and I could see him and Lee (hopefully) having a real dialogue about what happened off-screen, later down the road.

 

Edited: Grammar

Edited August 2, 2017 by Koala

[AllyCat7]

23 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Kenny was being diplomatic because he was on television and he knows how much certain people freak out when you say the word 'racist' in public.  Unfortunately minorities are often forced to minimize their experiences and keep quiet because many people don't like to be reminded of their major privilege or face being educated in these types of situations.  That's my theory, anyway.  

Well if that's the case then that is really upsetting. It's hard to make a judgement call when there are conflicting messages being thrown around. At the very least, I don't like the way it was handled...as others have pointed out since my last post, it seemed unnecessarily harsh. But I know he did wrong, too. I wish none of that had to go down.