S34.E07: What Happened on Exile, Stays on Exile

[ByaNose]

Here's a little blurb from Gordon Holmes. Apparently, Varner had mentioned his suspicions about Zeke. I'm guessing Gordon Holmes didn't publish that part because I don't recall reading it. Obviously, Zeke didn't tell Holmes himself thus him not publishing it himself:

Holmes: There was some confusion about how you knew Zeke was transgender. When we spoke in the pre-game interview, you said that you had noticed things about his physique that had led you to believe that he was transgender. Was there ever a point where Zeke opened up to you or was this based on your pre-game observations?
Varner: Not directly. He talked about all kinds of things that led me indirectly, not only that he was OK and out, I believed he was out. I had no idea that Zeke had not come out. Everything led to that. I don’t want to talk about how I knew, because in respect to Zeke, I don’t think that’s the right direction to go. When I said that out loud at Tribal, I was not 100% certain.

[cooksdelight]

25 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

I don't think so. Probst and Colby were pretty good friends for a few years when Colby was living in L.A. and trying to make a go of his acting career, but that seemed to be over by HvV, at least judging by how snippy they were with each other. ?

Yes, the bromance was over by then. They used to go running together each morning.

[Subrookie]

1 hour ago, cooksdelight said:

I would be just like him to have used one to save Varner.

Well his game has always been weak. That would have made the whole episode even more interesting. Had he done that Varner would have owed him forever, Jeff would have been the ultimate goat. And, Tai would still have had another Idol to protect himself. 

[ByaNose]

I wonder what is over/under of time spent on Varner & Zeke at the reunion? Will all of this over shadow the announced winner? Will Varner do the reunion? 

[annewithaneee]

1 hour ago, ByaNose said:

Here's a little blurb from Gordon Holmes. Apparently, Varner had mentioned his suspicions about Zeke. I'm guessing Gordon Holmes didn't publish that part because I don't recall reading it. Obviously, Zeke didn't tell Holmes himself thus him not publishing it himself:

Holmes: There was some confusion about how you knew Zeke was transgender. When we spoke in the pre-game interview, you said that you had noticed things about his physique that had led you to believe that he was transgender. Was there ever a point where Zeke opened up to you or was this based on your pre-game observations?
Varner: Not directly. He talked about all kinds of things that led me indirectly, not only that he was OK and out, I believed he was out. I had no idea that Zeke had not come out. Everything led to that. I don’t want to talk about how I knew, because in respect to Zeke, I don’t think that’s the right direction to go. When I said that out loud at Tribal, I was not 100% certain.

Jesus H! Any tiny shred of goodwill I had for Varner - in that he'd completely shit the bed in a moment of pure stupidity and ignorance and it'll have far-reaching implications for him - just evaporated. Poof!

I'm guessing what he's alluding to is, if I remember right from last season in his brief moments of shirtlessness, that he has scars on his chest, possibly from top surgery. To take that nosy, inappropriate hunch, and do what he did at tribal? Even worse. Not 100% sure and just barreled ahead?!

But I kinda don't buy that answer at all. I think he's just trying to spin this any way he can, because there's really only two realistic options for how he knew that Zeke is trans -- either Zeke confided in him and Varner betrayed his trust, or Varner was paying close attention to the Survivor fandom last year and saw all the discussion and speculation about Zeke including his physical appearance and scars (and later the almost for-sure confirmation that Zeke is indeed trans via some writing he did in college). I think it's the latter; he did his research and he knew, and he most likely also knew and understood from reading those discussions that Zeke wasn't publicly out. Either way, it's unforgivable. He either outed Zeke completely carelessly, or very intentionally.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I was a big Zeke fan during the Millennials season -- Zeke and Michaela were my favourites until Zeke said that weird thing to David -- but I never knew.  Then again, I know better to look up reality contestants on Google, because I've been spoiled for the winners of seasons so many times before.  I try to wait until the season's finished.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[LanceM]

7 minutes ago, annewithaneee said:

Jesus H! Any tiny shred of goodwill I had for Varner - in that he'd completely shit the bed in a moment of pure stupidity and ignorance and it'll have far-reaching implications for him - just evaporated. Poof!

I'm guessing what he's alluding to is, if I remember right from last season in his brief moments of shirtlessness, that he has scars on his chest, possibly from top surgery. To take that nosy, inappropriate hunch, and do what he did at tribal? Even worse. Not 100% sure and just barreled ahead?!

But I kinda don't buy that answer at all. I think he's just trying to spin this any way he can, because there's really only two realistic options for how he knew that Zeke is trans -- either Zeke confided in him and Varner betrayed his trust, or Varner was paying close attention to the Survivor fandom last year and saw all the discussion and speculation about Zeke including his physical appearance and scars (and later the almost for-sure confirmation that Zeke is indeed trans via some writing he did in college). I think it's the latter; he did his research and he knew, and he most likely also knew and understood from reading those discussions that Zeke wasn't publicly out. Either way, it's unforgivable. He either outed Zeke completely carelessly, or very intentionally.

Season 33 hadn't aired yet when this current season was being filmed so Varner would have no idea what the Survivor fandom was speculating about Zeke.

[Subrookie]

1 hour ago, cooksdelight said:

Yes, the bromance was over by then. They used to go running together each morning.

I'd be surprised if those two dont keep in touch. Peaches has always liked guys like Colby and he was the first real "man's man" to play this game. 

Somewhere up thread someone said it would be interesting to have an old school Survivor season. Count me in. Ten pizzas? WTF is this show becoming? They walked 5 miles or something with whatever food they could carry in S2. Now they shower them with food. 

[mojoween]

I can't lie, when Varner first said it for a split second I thought Zeke was going to immediately say something like "what are you talking about? I'm not trans."

But really I can't believe that it's been two seasons and I'm just now finding out that Zeke went to Harvard.

[Martinigirl]

Awww...I love Malcolm...but I'm still not a fan of Varners. 

Malcolm Freberg‏Verified account @MalcolmWHW  Apr 12

More

Didn't see tonight's #Survivor, but know what happened -- sometimes people say unforgivable things; it's on the rest of us to forgive

[annewithaneee]

1 minute ago, LanceM said:

Season 33 hadn't aired yet when this current season was being filmed so Varner would have no idea what the Survivor fandom was speculating about Zeke.

Oh, thanks for pointing that out. Then I'm reeeeeally confused as to what he could be talking about in a pre-season interview. If he'd never even seen Zeke before, how could he have picked up on something? I never pay much attention to pre-season coverage, but I'm assuming the cast is kept relatively segregated before the game really begins. 

It still just utterly blows my mind that he did that, if what he's saying is true. It feels pretty damn transphobic and idiotic to be so sure that you'd clocked Zeke that you could just ask "why haven't you told them you're transgender?" like it's absolute fact.

[amaranta]

I just finished watching.  I usually read more posts before I write, so apologies in advance - I've only read the first page.

My God, the look in Zeke's eyes: a combination of pain, confusion and yet composure.  And then to hug Varner goodbye?  You're a much better person than I, Zeke.  Geez, I'm still crying.

And Varner?  Using being transgender to illustrate someone is capable of deception?  Really?  Fuck you, Jeff Varner.  Fuck you.  May I never see you on my TV screen again.

[sadiegirl1999]

9 hours ago, mishap said:

It was hard to watch. 

It really was.

Zeke's face in that moment had so many complex emotions on it, if that's possible. You could just see the impact of those words in his eyes.

[diggle]

There are circumstances where I believe people should be outed. But this was absolutely not even close to being one and Varner should have known better. He did not just decide this on the spur of the moment. He had to have reflected upon it before Tribal. He gets no sympathy from me. None.

Zeke = amazing in so many ways.

[millennium]

3 hours ago, ByaNose said:

Here's a little blurb from Gordon Holmes. Apparently, Varner had mentioned his suspicions about Zeke. I'm guessing Gordon Holmes didn't publish that part because I don't recall reading it. Obviously, Zeke didn't tell Holmes himself thus him not publishing it himself:

Holmes: There was some confusion about how you knew Zeke was transgender. When we spoke in the pre-game interview, you said that you had noticed things about his physique that had led you to believe that he was transgender. Was there ever a point where Zeke opened up to you or was this based on your pre-game observations?
Varner: Not directly. He talked about all kinds of things that led me indirectly, not only that he was OK and out, I believed he was out. I had no idea that Zeke had not come out. Everything led to that. I don’t want to talk about how I knew, because in respect to Zeke, I don’t think that’s the right direction to go. When I said that out loud at Tribal, I was not 100% certain.

None of it makes sense.   If he truly believed Zeke was out, he wouldn't have accused him of deception.

I'm sick and tired of this new reality we live in where people piss on your leg all day long, insist that it's raining, and then it becomes everybody else's burden to prove that their claims are bullshit.    

[LanceM]

Here is what Jeff claims he meant when he said he thought Zeke was out.

http://www.sheknows.com/entertainment/articles/1133434/survivor-game-changers-jeff-varner-interview

"That's what was at play in that moment... It never dawned on me for a second that Zeke was in the closet. I couldn't even fathom the fact that you'd come on a show like this — not once, but twice — with a big old secret like that. Surely somebody knows. It's gonna come out. How are you hiding this? To me, he was out — loud and proud. I thought the viewers who watched Millennials vs. Gen-X knew because we didn't have a luxury due to timing of the show to see Millennials vs. Gen-X. We didn't know who Zeke was. So to me, Zeke was Russell [Hantz.] I needed to let everybody know, "Here's Russell. Here's what Russell is doing." I didn't think telling everybody about his gender identity [was bad] because everybody knew it.

When I argued, I thought everybody knew. I don't mean the six people that were sitting there — I mean the public, CBS and the producers. When it dawned on me that nobody knew and [when I realized] what I had done, I couldn't even breathe.

[DEL901]

3 hours ago, ByaNose said:

Here's a little blurb from Gordon Holmes. Apparently, Varner had mentioned his suspicions about Zeke. I'm guessing Gordon Holmes didn't publish that part because I don't recall reading it. Obviously, Zeke didn't tell Holmes himself thus him not publishing it himself:

Holmes: There was some confusion about how you knew Zeke was transgender. When we spoke in the pre-game interview, you said that you had noticed things about his physique that had led you to believe that he was transgender. Was there ever a point where Zeke opened up to you or was this based on your pre-game observations?
Varner: Not directly. He talked about all kinds of things that led me indirectly, not only that he was OK and out, I believed he was out. I had no idea that Zeke had not come out. Everything led to that. I don’t want to talk about how I knew, because in respect to Zeke, I don’t think that’s the right direction to go. When I said that out loud at Tribal, I was not 100% certain.

OMG - He wasn't 100% certain?  Not certain?  And yet he still felt that outing someone was the right thing to do in order to show that they could be "deceptive"?  Not talking about being trans isn't being deceptive.  Zeke is a man.  He is not deceiving them to get ahead in the game (like when people lie about what they do for a living.)  He was just living his truth. 

And what if he was wrong about Zeke.  And Probst said, you can't unring that bell. 

(And no matter how much more accepting society is... I remember all the vitriol when Chaz Bono was on DWTW.  People called him vile names and said he should die.)

 

7 minutes ago, LanceM said:

Here is what Jeff claims he meant when he said he thought Zeke was out.

http://www.sheknows.com/entertainment/articles/1133434/survivor-game-changers-jeff-varner-interview

"That's what was at play in that moment... It never dawned on me for a second that Zeke was in the closet. I couldn't even fathom the fact that you'd come on a show like this — not once, but twice — with a big old secret like that. Surely somebody knows. It's gonna come out. How are you hiding this? To me, he was out — loud and proud. I thought the viewers who watched Millennials vs. Gen-X knew because we didn't have a luxury due to timing of the show to see Millennials vs. Gen-X. We didn't know who Zeke was. So to me, Zeke was Russell [Hantz.] I needed to let everybody know, "Here's Russell. Here's what Russell is doing." I didn't think telling everybody about his gender identity [was bad] because everybody knew it.

When I argued, I thought everybody knew. I don't mean the six people that were sitting there — I mean the public, CBS and the producers. When it dawned on me that nobody knew and [when I realized] what I had done, I couldn't even breathe.

Varner can repeat this self-justification until the cows come home.  Not going help.  Especially since he was so gleeful right up until the big moment.

And, btw, he was so close to getting everyone to vote for Ozzy.  He should have just shut his trap.  But no, he just had to out Zeke.  And then he had to keep justify himself.  "I have lots of friends who are trans!"  Well good for him.  Sounds like racists claiming not to be racist by saying they have lots of black friends.

[violet and green]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I was a big Zeke fan during the Millennials season -- Zeke and Michaela were my favourites until Zeke said that weird thing to David -- but I never knew.  Then again, I know better to look up reality contestants on Google, because I've been spoiled for the winners of seasons so many times before.  I try to wait until the season's finished.

I think it was on Reddit. I sure as hell don't go snuffling around for spoilers either! I think I was upset that people were turning on Zeke over his comments to David, and I thought it was just a really awful moment but not indicative of his whole nature, so I went looking for alternate responses to that ep by other Zeke supporters and found instead that.

[Zuleikha]

I buy Varner's explanation for who he thought knew about Zeke's gender identity, but honestly, that's always what I thought he meant. But that is also why you simply don't assume about something so important that has real, foreseeable employment and safety risks. I wish we were at a point in time where it'd be ridiculous to think Zeke's safety could be endangered by being a famous trans person, but we're not. 

However, cheesy though this may be, I do find it really hope-inspiring that mainstream media and Zeke's tribe have been so uniform in support for him.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Zuleikha

[LoveLeigh]

Don't get me wrong, I 100% think what Varner did was terrible. He did a very bad thing. And I do think he was honestly sorry for how it would impact Zeke, not just sorry for the fact that it would get him (Varner) sent home. 

But, I think the hate directed toward him and the vilification of him is overkill. What's the point of an apology if there is no forgiveness? Varner did not "out" Zeke to millions of people, CBS did when they chose not to edit that out and Zeke has some responsibility by allowing it to air. 

I really cannot stand stubborn righteous people (like those on twitter) who are acting like Varner did one of the worst things since the beginning of time. 

If Zeke is really proud of who he is he should be able to move past it and just be happy with who he is and forget Varner. 

Edited April 14, 2017 by DakotaLavender
sentence structure errors

[spiderpig]

I'm still plowing through 9 pages of comments (just watched the show on delay) but I have to unload.

Sexual preference/orientation/gender identification are a part of what makes you you.  They are not things to be accused of.  Varner's statement that Zeke was deceitful, for not making a public declaration of something that is nobody's business, implied Zeke had something to hide and be ashamed of.

I was mortified, but felt somewhat reassured that the rest of the tribe let Varner have it and didn't even bother to vote.  Just sent him marching followed by a flood of virtual "Ptooeys".

[truthaboutluv]

25 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

Varner did not "out" Zeke to millions of people, CBS did when they chose not to edit that out and Zeke has some responsibility by allowing it to air. 

That sounds like blaming the victim to me. I'm sorry but saying Varner did not out Zeke to millions because CBS is the one that aired it seems like playing semantics to me. And this is exactly why I felt like if they hadn't shown what happened, more of this rationalizing and wiggle room for Varner would have existed right now. Because all viewers would have to go on is hearsay and it would be a lot of rumors and conjecture.

Yes, Varner made his comment to a tribal of six people or however many is left. But he also said it to a group of camera men filming a show he knows is meant to air to millions of people. And it is clear that he really didn't take into account that he would get hell for it and thought it might actually save him in the game. So in other words, yeah, if they all hadn't cared and been as awful as him, he very well would have been in another episode discussing his outing Zeke and what a brilliant move it was on his part.

I watched that tribal again because I was so shocked last night, I missed half of the conversation after Varner dropped that bombshell. And that's when I realized that TWICE after he said it, he mentioned "fighting for his life in the game" and "it's a million dollars". Seriously? YMMV, it's a cop out in my opinion to say Varner didn't out Zeke to millions because the fact is Varner dropped the bomb that exploded and led to whatever actions were taken after. But hey, he was fighting for his life. 

And look, I'm not saying the man should be ostracized and tortured for the rest of his life. But it's been a day since this aired. So yeah, he's going to get shit for it until social media and the entertainment media move on, which no worries, they will in a few days. Especially since between airlines and the government, some new scandal is bound to break. Well until the Finale/Reunion show comes around. 

Edited April 14, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[MrsR]

Well CBS knows all too well that despite what ever they do, secrets get out. There are 30 people on that set, just cause we don't see them doesn't mean they aren't there.

 

And they talk and they reveal boot lists and spoilers galore.

 

It would have been folly after 33 shows to assume they could keep this a secret. The only recourse is to move forward, don't grossly exploit it and try to make lemonade out of it. The appalled tribe members set the tone and provided the sugar for the lemonade.

What ever happens in the future, Andrea, Ozzie. Sarah, Tai and Debbie all behaved admirably. And that they can be proud of.

[backformore]

The idea of being "out"  as trans is complicated.  It's not like being out as gay.   Sure, some people in Zeke's life know he is transgender.  But you can't be "out"  to everyone you meet.   Being trans means that he is presenting himself to the world as male because he IS male - even though he was assigned female at birth.  It's complicated, because in our society, the first thing you notice about someone is their gender.  When a person is trans, their "coming out"  is when they begin to present themselves to the world in the gender they identify with.   So Zeke's coming out was when he began looking/dressing as male.  Zeke is "out" as a male.  friends and family who knew him before, know him as trans.  But there is no need to tell anyone else.  He presents himself as a gay male. That is his identity, that's how he lives his life.  the trans part is much more private, and nobody's business.  

[MsTree]

6 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I really didn't get that Varner was trying to say that all trans people are liars or that being trans means you are deceptive. That I agree would be just a truly heinous thing and would make Varner a monster. To me it came off like Varner was saying that Zeke was lying about something so he therefore wasn't trustworthy in the game, like how you might think someone who lies about their job on Survivor isn't trustworthy. I do believe Varner that he thought Zeke was out in the real world/to the audience. That's part of why to me it didn't come off as a malicious thing so much as a terribly stupid miscalculation of a strategy to move the target off himself and onto someone else. Of course even in that case it was completely wrong and gross and does prove that Varner is at the very least deeply selfish and willing to stoop pretty low just to win a game

 

5 hours ago, Subrookie said:

Varner is getting a lot of well deserved anger after this, but I like to think even good people do bad things. I don't think he's a bad person, he made a bad decision. I won't try to defend him. I was pretty shocked he brought it up. I'd be amazed if they didn't spend a fair amount of time talking about it in the after show following the final tribal. He was one of my favorite players from my favorite season of this show (S2) and he's been outspoken on LGBTQ rights. I'm sure he feels horrible now

Totally agree with everything Peachmangosteen and Subrookie said.  People on Survivor living under harsh conditions tend to say stupid shit without thinking of the consequences. We don't know how lack of sleep and nourishment affect our brains. Regardless, he said it and almost immediately regretted it. I believe his apology was heartfelt when his brain finally kicked in gear and he realized what he said. I don't hate Varner, and at some point the negativity has to stop. There's not much more he can do except continue to apologize, but that will never be enough for some people. To say he shouldl die alone, is like saying he should commit suicide.  Instead of spewing negative vibes, let's do as Zeke suggested on the Talk today and use what happened as a learning experience.

[Charlesman]

3 hours ago, mojoween said:

But really I can't believe that it's been two seasons and I'm just now finding out that Zeke went to Harvard.

 

Haha! Yes, it so true! Not once did he ever allude to going to school in Cambridge. It's practically every other word from anyone else who went there!!!

[MsTree]

1 hour ago, DakotaLavender said:

Don't get me wrong, I 100% think what Varner did was terrible. He did a very bad thing. And I do think he was honestly sorry for how it would impact Zeke, not just sorry for the fact that it would get him (Varner) sent home. 

But, I think the hate directed toward him and the vilification of him is overkill. What's the point of an apology if there is no forgiveness? Varner did not "out" Zeke to millions of people, CBS did when they chose not to edit that out and Zeke has some responsibility by allowing it to air. 

I really cannot stand stubborn righteous people (like those on twitter) who are acting like Varner did one of the worst things since the beginning of time. 

If Zeke is really proud of who he is he should be able to move past it and just be happy with who he is and forget Varner

Thank you, DakotaLavender. I couldn't agree with you more...especially about what happened not being one of the worst things ever. It's not like he murdered someone for cryin' out loud.

[MisterBluxom]

6 minutes ago, MsTree said:

 

Totally agree with everything Peachmangosteen and Subrookie said.  People on Survivor living under harsh conditions tend to say stupid shit without thinking of the consequences. We don't know how lack of sleep and nourishment affect our brains. Regardless, he said it and almost immediately regretted it. I believe his apology was heartfelt when his brain finally kicked in gear and he realized what he said. I don't hate Varner, and at some point the negativity has to stop. There's not much more he can do except continue to apologize, but that will never be enough for some people. To say he shouldl die alone, is like saying he should commit suicide.  Instead of spewing negative vibes, let's do as Zeke suggested on the Talk today and use what happened as a learning experience.

Another factor which has me wondering is that Probst is in control of the editing and so when he says things like, "You can't unring that bell", the tendency is for people to think he is very wise and a voice to be listened to. OTOH, when Varner says stupid shit, people get very angry and they don't like him. I have to wonder just how far apart the two would be viewed if we just saw the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I have to ask just how much of what is said is influenced by who it is that controls what makes it to our screens. My guess is that the answer just might be "quite a lot".

[truthaboutluv]

4 minutes ago, Charlesman said:

 

Haha! Yes, it so true! Not once did he ever allude to going to school in Cambridge. It's practically every other word from anyone else who went there!!!

Really? Because that I definitely knew. I don't remember it being mentioned as much as with Cochran (and a big part of that was Cochran's whole writing his thesis for Harvard, about the show) but I definitely remember Zeke's going to Harvard being mentioned a few times in the first couple of episodes of Millennials vs. Gen-Xers.

[SVNBob]

6 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

See, I really didn't get that Varner was trying to say that all trans people are liars or that being trans means you are deceptive. That I agree would be just a truly heinous thing and would make Varner a monster. To me it came off like Varner was saying that Zeke was lying about something so he therefore wasn't trustworthy in the game, like how you might think someone who lies about their job on Survivor isn't trustworthy. I do believe Varner that he thought Zeke was out in the real world/to the audience. That's part of why to me it didn't come off as a malicious thing so much as a terribly stupid miscalculation of a strategy to move the target off himself and onto someone else. Of course even in that case it was completely wrong and gross and does prove that Varner is at the very least deeply selfish and willing to stoop pretty low just to win a game.

Although I'm starting to feel less and less sure about my perception of Varner and what he really knew/what he really feels.

This is about where I am too.

Let's use an analogy (weak though the comparison probably will be).  Instead of Zeke, let's use Brett from last season.  As we may recall, Brett was lying about his profession throughout that season; claiming only to be in the mortuarial industry instead of his primary career as a police officer.  (But the others that season (Hanna in particular, that we saw) figured him out.  However, that is not relevant to this analogy.)

So assume Brett is in this season instead of Zeke, and otherwise there are no changes.  But Brett is able to successfully hide his profession from everyone.  Except Varner has sussed out, or at least highly suspects, that Brett is lying about his profession.  So at this particular TC, Varner brings up the "secret Ozzy-Brett alliance" that was hidden from the other 4, then turns to Brett and says "why haven't you told these people you're a police officer?"  That leads to the discussion of how if Brett can hide this outside the game fact from everyone, then he's capable of hiding an alliance with Ozzy from everyone too.

 

Yes, this is a weak analogy, but I think that this is the line of reasoning Varner originally had in his mind in his TH and at TC.  That hiding a personal fact that well proves a person is capable of hiding game-relevant facts.  He just forgot that some personal facts are not for other people to reveal, or to be revealed at all if the person chooses not to do so.  He may have had malicious intent within the game; advancing his own game by torpedoing another's player by painting them as untrustworthy.  But I like to believe that he did not have an overall malicious intent, and that when it finally dawned on him what he had done (not that his move had failed, but truly what he had literally done), he was as horrified with himself as everyone else there at TC.

 

So I think I get why he did what he did.  He still shouldn't have done it.

[jumper sage]

3 hours ago, millennium said:

None of it makes sense.   If he truly believed Zeke was out, he wouldn't have accused him of deception.

Yes, you are correct.

While watching this unfold I was thinking WTF is this?  I could not believe it!

My opinion is that Varner let greed get the better of him and I am not trying to minimize what happened at all.

[millennium]

2 hours ago, backformore said:

The idea of being "out"  as trans is complicated.  It's not like being out as gay.   Sure, some people in Zeke's life know he is transgender.  But you can't be "out"  to everyone you meet.   Being trans means that he is presenting himself to the world as male because he IS male - even though he was assigned female at birth.  It's complicated, because in our society, the first thing you notice about someone is their gender.  When a person is trans, their "coming out"  is when they begin to present themselves to the world in the gender they identify with.   So Zeke's coming out was when he began looking/dressing as male.  Zeke is "out" as a male.  friends and family who knew him before, know him as trans.  But there is no need to tell anyone else.  He presents himself as a gay male. That is his identity, that's how he lives his life.  the trans part is much more private, and nobody's business.  

Exactly.   And yet there's a widespread perception that if someone can credibly present him- or herself as the desired gender without detection (or getting "read," as we say), that person is being deceptive or lying to the unwitting public.   In reality, it's the exact opposite.   In reality, that's the true self.   It doesn't get more honest than that.

The expectation that a transgender person should be "out" or should reveal their transgender status to friends and casual acquaintances is a selfish fallacy.   It implies that "normal" society is inherently better than transgender people, and that transgender people owe their superiors an explanation.   We don't owe the public anything except to conduct ourselves according to the same rules everyone else lives by.  (Although I personally feel revealing the truth becomes a moral obligation whenever one embarks upon a romantic relationship.)

[Guest]

8 hours ago, annewithaneee said:

Oh, thanks for pointing that out. Then I'm reeeeeally confused as to what he could be talking about in a pre-season interview. If he'd never even seen Zeke before, how could he have picked up on something? I never pay much attention to pre-season coverage, but I'm assuming the cast is kept relatively segregated before the game really begins. 

They're around each other quite a bit but not socializing before the game begins.  He could've noticed physical hints.  My daughter and other viewers noticed some.  My daughter has a young trans male friend so she might be more knowledgeable about physical signs.  

[Haleth]

It was probably torture for Zeke knowing for months that this was coming.  I hope the outpouring of support and kindness toward him helps diminish the pain of being outed like that.  I saw him on The Talk yesterday and he seems to be reconciled with the idea that he is now the face of the transgender community.  It's not something he sought, but he's ok with it.

Varner isn't a monster.  He made one horrible mistake.  On national television.  This story even made the national news so there is no hiding from it.  I agree a carefully worded apology on Twitter isn't enough but I'm not sure what he can do to make things better.  He definitely needs to stop talking though.  Explaining what you meant to say rarely removes the foot from your mouth.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Haleth

[Drogo]

7 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

What's the point of an apology if there is no forgiveness?

An apology (IMO) is an expression of remorse, and potentially a gateway to forgiveness.  Forgiveness is not owed to anyone for any apologized-for transgression. 

 

5 hours ago, MsTree said:

It's not like he murdered someone for cryin' out loud.

Murder isn't the only unforgivable act, and everyone gets to decide for themselves what type of treatment they can (and can't) excuse. 

 

6 hours ago, MrsR said:

It would have been folly after 33 shows to assume they could keep this a secret. The only recourse is to move forward, don't grossly exploit it and try to make lemonade out of it. The appalled tribe members set the tone and provided the sugar for the lemonade.

What ever happens in the future, Andrea, Ozzie. Sarah, Tai and Debbie all behaved admirably. And that they can be proud of.

Well said.

[DEL901]

Some interesting quotes from Varner's EW interview:  http://ew.com/tv/2017/04/13/survivor-jeff-varner-zeke-transgender-game-changer/

"On when the gravity of what he had done hit him:
“Oh, it was there. And that Tribal Council is two hours long. It went forever. They had to edit it down to 20 minutes. There is so much you didn’t see that went on forever. We talked about all of it. When it hit me, I had an emotional breakdown. You see a few tears from me, but in reality that went on for hours."

On what the past 10 months have been like for him after this happened:
“I will say that I have spent 10 months stewing in this awful, horrible mistake I made. I have been through I don’t now how much therapy with the show’s therapist, with a local therapist, I have met with and spoken to several LGBT organizations, I have joined the board of a couple of them, I joined a national study on outness. This has changed me drastically. But I don’t want to spend two minutes talking about my experience because this isn’t about me. This is about Zeke. And I can only profusely apologize. “

Edited April 14, 2017 by DEL901

[xfuse]

4 hours ago, millennium said:

The idea of being "out"  as trans is complicated.  It's not like being out as gay.   Sure, some people in Zeke's life know he is transgender.  But you can't be "out"  to everyone you meet.  

He was vocal about it while he was at Harvard according to the article so it wasn't a complete secret. I get that it has been years and no one wants to have to tell everyone they meet. It probably would be pretty tiring. He just wants to be Zeke .

I do think it was pretty crappy thing to do to anyone even if only one person didn't know. It wasn't his secret to tell.

I do want to praise CBS and Survivor for not making it "A Shocking Secret" or "First Ever" or even "Ultimate Betrayal" episode or even season. There are alot of shows that would have milked the entire season for that episode for ratings.

[himela]

15 hours ago, millennium said:

 In the eyes of the public, he was just another guy.    I can't describe to you what an achievement that is, just to be considered ordinary.    And now he's not.  And may never be again.

 

In my opinion people who will consider Zeke "not-ordinary" now would not have considered him "ordinary" just by being a gay man. I find it hard t oimagine that there are people who don't mind a gay person but they do mind a transgender person. People with closed minds and hearts will always find "these people" "not ordinary", sadly.

I liked Zeke before and I adore him now, not cause he was the victim of this horrible incident but for the person he is; he handled everything the greatest way I could ever imagine and he tried to create a good thing from a bad thing. This seems a strong, gentle, polite, good character. And all this in his age of 29 is hugely admireable.

[laurakaye]

Varner stated in an interview that he wasn't 100% certain that everyone knew about Zeke.  In another interview, he states that he was sure everyone already knew.  Clearly it can't be both, and the more he talks about it, the deeper he gets.  He honestly needs to step away from social media and let things rest for awhile...although I'm sure there will be plenty of people who think him cowardly for doing just that.  At least for awhile, Varner won't be able to do anything right.

That said, I cannot imagine what he must've been going through for the 10 months leading up to the airing of this episode.  That had to have been his own personal version of hell.  And while his public apologies are necessary (especially since the episode just aired), there comes a point where he needs to be able to stop and heal and hopefully make some sense of what he did, why he did it, and learn from it.

As for Zeke, I had no clue he was transgender.  I remember Zeke saying that he was a former fat kid who got in shape, managed to get on Survivor and be the person to make fire.  Between that, his Harvard education, his awesome mustache and his ability to do a slide puzzle without breaking it into a million pieces, he's someone I'd like to see win the whole thing.

Edited April 14, 2017 by laurakaye

[Nashville]

7 hours ago, SVNBob said:

This is about where I am too.

Let's use an analogy (weak though the comparison probably will be).  Instead of Zeke, let's use Brett from last season.  As we may recall, Brett was lying about his profession throughout that season; claiming only to be in the mortuarial industry instead of his primary career as a police officer.  (But the others that season (Hanna in particular, that we saw) figured him out.  However, that is not relevant to this analogy.)

So assume Brett is in this season instead of Zeke, and otherwise there are no changes.  But Brett is able to successfully hide his profession from everyone.  Except Varner has sussed out, or at least highly suspects, that Brett is lying about his profession.  So at this particular TC, Varner brings up the "secret Ozzy-Brett alliance" that was hidden from the other 4, then turns to Brett and says "why haven't you told these people you're a police officer?"  That leads to the discussion of how if Brett can hide this outside the game fact from everyone, then he's capable of hiding an alliance with Ozzy from everyone too.

 

Yes, this is a weak analogy, but I think that this is the line of reasoning Varner originally had in his mind in his TH and at TC.  That hiding a personal fact that well proves a person is capable of hiding game-relevant facts. 

I believe your analogy is sound in that it correctly reflects Varner's reasoning. 

There's a fundamental flaw in such reasoning, however, if its criteria for what information constitutes socially acceptable "fair play" use does not distinguish between what you do (voluntary actions) vs. who you are (innate personality). 

This distinction is the United Flight scorpion to which Varner failed to pay heed, and he got stung - but good.

[peachmangosteen]

10 hours ago, LanceM said:

"That's what was at play in that moment... It never dawned on me for a second that Zeke was in the closet. I couldn't even fathom the fact that you'd come on a show like this — not once, but twice — with a big old secret like that."

Really, Varner? REALLY? This coming from him is something else. I still believe Varner made a big mistake that he knows now was wrong and that he truly feels sorry about, but the man needs to stop talking about how he got to that point because all it's doing is making him less and less understandable.

8 hours ago, Charlesman said:

Haha! Yes, it so true! Not once did he ever allude to going to school in Cambridge. It's practically every other word from anyone else who went there!!!

Zeke definitely mentioned he went to Harvard on the show. But it is true that less of a deal was made about it on the show than has been made for a lot of other ivy league contestants.

2 hours ago, Drogo said:

An apology (IMO) is an expression of remorse, and potentially a gateway to forgiveness.  Forgiveness is not owed to anyone for any apologized-for transgression. 

I agree with this and I have no problem if Zeke never forgives Varner or even really if members of the audience never do, but I feel like it's kind of being made like forgiveness is wrong and that people aren't capable of being truly remorseful/changing and I find that sad to think. Even though sometimes it's hard to do I have to believe people who do something wrong can be truly sorry for it and be capable of redeeming themselves or else it's like what's the point. We all make mistakes, sometimes good people even make really big, disastrous ones, and I want to believe that when I do that I am capable of learning from them and that I will be able to be forgiven for them.

Edited April 14, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Nashville]

4 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I agree with this and I have no problem if Zeke never forgives Varner or even really if members of the audience never do, but I feel like it's kind of being made like forgiveness is wrong and that people aren't capable of being truly remorseful/changing and I find that sad to think. Even though sometimes it's hard to do I have to believe people who do something wrong can be truly sorry for it and be capable of redeeming themselves or else it's like what's the point. We all make mistakes, sometimes good people even make really big, disastrous ones, and I want to believe that when I do that I am capable of learning from them and that I will be able to be forgiven for them.

YMMV but I think it's more a difference in perception of what constitutes forgiveness, than a lack of it.  Forgiving somebody for a transgression doesn't strip you of your capacity to protect yourself by (for example) keeping your guard up against future re-occurrences.

[ljenkins782]

16 hours ago, BarneySays said:

I think you miss the point.  Zeke is a trans man.  He is always going to have to deal with people who do not "respond positively."  Just as varner, as a gay man, has dealt with and will continue to deal with people who do not respond positively to him as a gay man.  That is built into the experience of their lives.  Assessing the benefits or "wellness" of the decision to come out excludes those "negative responses" because they understand they will always be there.  If a trans or gay man (or woman) made life decisions based on avoiding negative reactions from others, they'd live a stunted cramped life (the old closet).  The fact is that if the public disclosure of zeke's experience was made by him, it was made with a full understanding of the potential consequences (the point I previously made).  This may be a circumstance where not being able to understand the experience of being a sexual minority clouds understanding. 

FYI: not agreeing with your point(s) is not the same as missing them. 

Quote

I knew there had to be a reason why Probst has been virtually mute regarding this season.  I found it odd that when he was on the Tonight Show, presumably to promote the show, the subject didn’t come up.  I thought perhaps he wasn’t happy with the winner.  Now I now why.  

He had to have known this was going to be a watercooler moment, but I guess he learned his lesson from when he promoted the hell out of Worlds Apart and the Shirin/Will drama and the bad tattoo brothers from Kaoh Rong destroying camp and then the viewing audience hated it. 

[PhilMarlowe2]

I will never like Zeke on a personal level because of the way he made fun of David's tears at Tribal Council, but I obviously felt for him deeply in this episode. It was a very complex and moving situation, made all the more so by the rest of the tribe's unwavering support. Strangely, I think I do know what Jeff Varner meant when he said that he thought the whole world knew - I think Varner was referring to how this would play to the viewing audience - in other words, I think that Varner assumed that Zeke would be marketed as "the trans contestant," and all the viewers would know from the first episode of the season that Zeke was trans, but that Zeke wasn't saying anything to his actual tribe mates about it. I'm not saying it makes what Varner did right - and I think Varner was a little too quick to lay on all of the apologies - there is obviously something "there" that Varner needs to look at, but I do think that I followed his general logic. It was still a strange, hateful moment.

Edited April 14, 2017 by PhilMarlowe2

[lh25]

On 4/13/2017 at 7:35 AM, BarneySays said:

But I speak from years of experience- there is often (if not always) an undertone of disgust at the mere act of identifying someone as a category that you think is not valid or worthy.  I lived through that common reaction from straight people for years and years over identifying gay and lesbian people:  outrage and moral superiority masking their anger and disgust. 

I respect you years of experience, but I have my own 50 some-odd years of experience being straight and having gay friends and relatives.  To me, outing someone, as gay or trans has nothing to do with any anger or disgust at them being so, but at the act that took away their choice of what to reveal when.

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Really, Varner? REALLY? This coming from him is something else.

I actually see his point there.  Jeff may not have been 'out' but I never imagined anyone didn't know he was gay his last season, because he didn't really seem to try to hide it and it seemed obvious to me.  I agree with him that when you go on these shows, these things get out because people are examining you with a fine tooth comb because picking the right ally is crucial.  And because it's still reality tv, no matter how high a road Survivor takes with people.  So the fact that Zeke went a whole season plus without the viewing audience or players discussing his being trans is extremely surprising.  And wonderful.  But shocking.  

I can understand Jeff assuming last season's players and viewers knew.  When they cast anyone with some really different background, the show and the player (as far as we know, before now) don't typically hide it.  We knew Brett was a gay cop.  We knew Gary Hawkins(?) was Gary Hogeboom.  Etc.  

So Jeff may have thought he was just defusing some big bomb that Zeke planned to use to torpedo someone's game at tribal.  And maybe Zeke did plan that.  Probably not, since he didn't even disclose it in confessionals and has said he wanted to remain 'just Zeke'.  But Jeff didn't know that then.  

[backformore]

7 hours ago, millennium said:

The expectation that a transgender person should be "out" or should reveal their transgender status to friends and casual acquaintances is a selfish fallacy.   It implies that "normal" society is inherently better than transgender people, and that transgender people owe their superiors an explanation.   We don't owe the public anything except to conduct ourselves according to the same rules everyone else lives by.  (Although I personally feel revealing the truth becomes a moral obligation whenever one embarks upon a romantic relationship.)

Yes, thank you for putting it so well.  That was where I was going with my post.  Transgender people are just people living their lives in their True gender, and the concept of "coming out"  is not the same as for people who are gay. 

For a gay person, being out means being honest about relationships and who you are attracted to.  A transgender person is already being honest about who they are.  And Zeke, in describing himself as a gay man, was being honest about that as well.  

[Blissfool]

On 4/13/2017 at 9:29 AM, SlackerInc said:

 

So Jeff just pretended to sort of have a vote?  Why not just declare that he was disqualified?

 

On 4/13/2017 at 9:35 AM, ferretrick said:

No, I distinctly remember them all standing there and Jeff calling them one by one for a verbal vote.  I mean, it was pretty obvious what was going to happen, just as it was last night, but there was an official (verbal) vote. 

 

On 4/13/2017 at 9:59 AM, simplyme said:

Just pointing out that Jeff called on them all last night for an official verbal vote, too. People seem to be overlooking this.

I wouldn't consider it a vote. He sort of projected his thoughts on who should be evicted onto the tribemates. "I think we all know who should be evicted tonight. Right, debbie? Sarah? Etc..." They didnt even answer with a name; they just said "yes" or nodded their heads. Then he declared Varner out.  Did Varner even get a "vote"?

4 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

They're around each other quite a bit but not socializing before the game begins.  He could've noticed physical hints.  My daughter and other viewers noticed some.  My daughter has a young trans male friend so she might be more knowledgeable about physical signs.  

I noticed things about his face and his physique that were feminine. My first thought was that he cross-dressed but i couldnt explain the facial and chest hair so i just let it go and continued to support him in his battle against David. I was Team Zeke all the way.

[cuphead]

19 hours ago, millennium said:

There's a scene in the novel Salem's Lot, one of the early appearances of Kurt Barlow, the vampire.   He appears to some hapless townie wandering the streets one night and casually engages him in small talk, hypnotizing him in the process.   The vampire chats about all the misery he has seen in his time on the earth, all the misery that still exists, and then he brings it around to Americans, how everyone in America seems unhappy with their lives, their jobs, their marriages, etc., despite the high quality of life here.   He says in mild disgust, "Your unhappiness is that of a child who has spilled his ice cream at a birthday party."

That line came back to me as I watched Culpepper, who has a successful life/job/marriage, etc., sitting on a beautiful tropical beach the likes of which many of us will never set foot upon, weeping about the trauma of being on a game show where he might just win a million dollars.

Apologies, but I don't think I can totally agree with your assessment.

Survivor is not the typical game show that is shot on a soundstage in front of a live studio audience.  Living outdoors is harsh (the elements, not bathing, building fires for warmth, cooking and a light source when the sun goes down, starvation, thirst, sleeping on dirt/bamboo, etc...).  And you're totally immersed in an atmosphere of paranoia and distrust.  Even though you're on an island, it's rare to get a moment to decompress because you want to be involved in every conversation, and not be the target of any conversations should you walk away.

I can understand why Brad, and the rest of the tribe, broke down.  It wasn't the pizza, it was the feeling of defeat, and the elements/game beginning to make them all feel defeated, both mentally and physically. Individually, they were all breaking down for various reasons, but were able to do it as a tribe and find a bit of comfort in sharing it with each other. I thought it was a nice bonding moment for them.

In Brad's defense, he seemed more shaken because he didn't understand Monica after she came back from 39 days on Survivor.  He finally was beginning to understand what she went through, and probably regretted that he wasn't very understanding when Monica came back a little changed.

It was touching that of all the things that could make a person moved to tears on Survivor, his trigger was a sincere sadness over not understanding his wife when she was going through a difficult time.  Felt very human. I liked him from the start of the season and like him even more now.

And off topic, I respected Sarah's raw display of emotion during Tribal.  Last year we got to see David transform throughout the game, but watching Sarah on television processing something quite momentous for her in a matter of minutes was pretty compelling and I was moved to tears.  I really like her, and want to see more of her storyline.

[enoughcats]

How do the producers handle medicines on the show?  Zeke can't be the only one who takes daily prescription medicines. 

Is there a daily dispensing, where they all line up or ????????