S01.E15: Jack Pearson's Son

[breezy424]

A really good episode.

Jack overreacted but at the same time Rebecca should have told him about dating, no matter how brief, the other band member.  We also find out that Jack did stop drinking but he upset enough (and I think it was about what happened with Rebecca as well as the pressure of being a great dad, husband, and providing for his family) that he went for the drink.  He's 'not' perfect.

Randall's on the ledge.  He's gone there throughout his life.  Kevin gets it.  He knows he has to 'talk' him off.  I didn't mind that he didn't say anything.  He just reacted and knew what he had to do.  I didn't really feel William this episode.  Just like last week, he doesn't understand that Randall has a job.  I know the man is dying but he does seem insensitive to his son's other obligations.  I'm not totally letting Randall off the hook here because of what he wants for his dad but at the same time, William doesn't seem to see the pressure Randall is under.  Yeah, I know.  It's a debatable topic.

Toby wasn't bad except when he had to say something about being 'well hung'.  I'm still not warming up to him.  At least he had the insight to say that they should take their time before jumping into marriage.

[HeyThere83]

There hasn't really been any journey with Kevin/Randall to get to this point, so I am mostly meh on it. These moments matter to me most when we see the path to getting there. But I think this show leaves that stuff out way too much. This was to move Kevin's plot along, I think.

[Autumn]

Randall should have taken family leave, these are the situations it was created for.  But I understand his fear of being pushed aside by someone else at his firm if he isn't there.  Unfortunately it is happening anyway.  I think the co-worker was trying to help but the boss didn't seem very understanding.

Also, didn't Randall's wife have another family member who could rush to her mothers side?

I think Toby was right that he and Kate need to slow their roll about the wedding.

[Gemma Violet]

Wouldn't the actors in the play have had understudies?  I mean, I know it's not Broadway or anything, but a play starring The Manny that the NY Times is reviewing you would think would have a back-up plan in case one of the headliners got sick or something.

[OptimisticCynic]

I really hope Kevin had an understudy that quickly went on after an announcement of a family emergency that made Kevin unavailable to perform. Or, they had Los Perdidos* in the wings ready to play an impromptu set.

(*Reference for any Slings & Arrows fans out there)

Edited February 15, 2017 by OptimisticCynic

[photo fox]

Kevin definitely should have said something to Sloane, but it's one of those plot contrivances that I don't really blame the character for.  They wanted to have a moment of suspense - will Kevin go on?  Is he running away because he thought he was going to bomb?  No!  He's running to help Randall!  Awwww...  (It was completely telegraphed, but that's clearly what they were trying to do.)  It's just not as effective if Kevin takes Sloane aside five minutes before the curtain and calmly explains where he's going.

Ditto for Kevin having Kate or Rebecca go check on Randall while he went on with the show.  Yes, that would make sense, but the beauty (and the drama) were in the sacrifice.  And juxtaposed against those powerful moments of Teen Kevin watching Teen Randall cry and hyperventilate, before silently walking on.  And poor Randall hearing the door latch click and realize his brother saw him and just kept moving.  Heartbreaking.

[biakbiak]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

SHUT. UP. MIGUEL.

You are not entitled to act like the father to your wife's adult children! And you can lament the loss of Jack all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you didn't waste time moving in on his wife after he died! Dick!

Kevin came to Miguel's home, accepted an invitation for coffee and proceed to unload all his problems on Miguel and Miguel gave him advice that he appreciated how is that fathering him or being a dick? We also have no idea how Miguel and Rebecca got together.

[CalamitysChild]

This one hit close to home for me.

I saw my father go through almost exactly what Randall is going through very recently, and it took several attempts to convince him he shouldn't handle it alone before he caved and understood he needed help, so I was frustrated and upset pretty much the whole episode with everyone around Randall. Why didn't someone offer to help him earlier? Even in small ways. I know they all seem to think he has it together, but something as simple as Kevin witnessing the phone call about William's nurse and going, "hey, do you want me to go see if I can smooth things over? I'm killing some time anyway." Gah!! I know they all have their own stuff going on, but they've also mentioned this is a pattern for him, so you'd think they'd be a little more observant about it.

Of course, that wouldn't make for quite as dramatic a final scene with Randall and Kevin, which made me totally lose it even though I knew it was manipulative as Hell on the part of the writers. DAMN YOU, THIS IS US TEAM! It was a definite turnaround from Teen!Kevin turning away from his brother's pain, which I know was the point, but still. 

And I agree, Sterling K. Brown needs to submit this one for all the awards. All of them. Give him a Grammy and a Razzie and a People's Choice award. Literally all of them. 

[Cardie]

55 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

Of course Kevin, instead of texting Rebecca or Kate, sitting out in the audience, to please go to Randall, NOW

To be fair, he couldn't text them because they had all been asked to turn off their phones. But there were other ways to contact them or at least to tell Sloane they had to cancel the performance. Just leaving her out there alone was brutal.

[catrox14]

Oh as contrived as it was for Kevin to get to Randall, I was quite happy that Kevin pinged something was way off with Randall and went to his brother. I think that might be my favorite scene of the entire series thus far.

[memememe76]

I wonder when Randall started feeling all that anxiety. Kid Randall at that birthday party with his 2 buds was still pretty chill. 

This was easily Toby's best episode. Him having been married before really showed. Everything he said, save his thoughts of suicide, he probably told his first wife. I wonder what exactly is preventing Kate from talking about Jacks death with Toby. But Chrissie did a really good job of wanting to speak but not being able to. I quite haven't seen that type of emotion expressed onscreen. 

[buckboard]

I think Kevin running out on the performance - no matter how noble and brotherly - really sucked.  Kevin had a responsibility to Sloane and the rest of the company as much as to his brother. (Even if he wasn't thinking about his own career and his financial investment in the play.)

He could have told Sloane there was a family emergency and that he needed 10 minutes to go out and tell his family that Randall was having a panic attack and that someone had to go help him.  Then he goes back to the play.   They could even have gone on before the start and apologized for the delay, explaining that he had to deal with a  family emergency, but now -- on with the show.   I don't give him any praise running out without any explanation.

[DebbieM4]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

SHUT. UP. MIGUEL.

You are not entitled to act like the father to your wife's adult children! And you can lament the loss of Jack all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you didn't waste time moving in on his wife after he died! Dick!

 

We don't know that Miguel moved in on Rebecca.  We don't know how they got together, or when.  I actually liked his talk with Kevin, and didn't find it inappropriate at all.  He was helpful, and that's a good thing.  I didn't see it as acting like Kevin's father, but more as acting like someone who knew Kevin's father well.  Which he did.

2 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

 

Kate getting kicked out of the camp bothered more than fiction should...kept thinking sexual harassment, blast them on social media/review sites and demand refund...she's to passive and nice when she's treated badly

 

This really bothered me too.  It just makes no sense that parents would keep their sexually-harassing son on staff.   It's not as though they own a store and he's a bit slow on the checkout line.  He's in the habit of sexually harassing paying guests, and they could easily get sued and lose their entire business.  So he can do whatever he wants (would actual rape be okay?) because his parents own the place??  I thought that whole storyline was lame.  They stretched it out for no reason, and the end of it (I hope that's the end of it!) was unsatisfying because it defied logic.  What kind of idiot parents wouldn't realize the consequences of letting this goon run free?  I would rather have seen Kate tell him off and then leave.  That little bit of nonsense was pointless and ridiculous. 

2 hours ago, movingtargetgal said:

I really wanted Kate to get angry by the way she was treated by Duke and his parents, the camp owners.  The camp is a therapeutic treatment center and to have their clients being sexually harassed and maybe assaulted by the owner's pervy son is BEYOND gross.  It is criminal. Kate should call her doctor's office to let them know about what is going on at the "therapeutic center" to which they are sending their patients.  She then needs to get herself a kick ass lawyer to help her file criminal and civil charges against Duke and his parents.   

Yes to all of this.  At the very least, she should do something so other women don't have to be subjected to him.  Instead, it seemed as though she got a semi-kick out of it, and went on her merry way.

30 minutes ago, Gemma Violet said:

Wouldn't the actors in the play have had understudies?  I mean, I know it's not Broadway or anything, but a play starring The Manny that the NY Times is reviewing you would think would have a back-up plan in case one of the headliners got sick or something.

An understudy would have known that Kevin was at the theater, ready to go on, so would have had no reason to be ready to instantly step in, or even to be in the building.  It may very well turn out that there was a delay, and then the understudy went on.  It's also possible that there was no understudy, which, in my experience, is a pretty big risk.  But not having one is more common than people think.  Either way, I didn't love Kevin running out.  At the very, very least he should have told someone that he was leaving.  That was a really crappy thing to do to Sloane and everyone else involved in the production.  Not being able to go on is one thing.  Disappearing with no communication is something else.  Being reliable and responsible is hugely important in theater, and for good reason.

[WhosThatGirl]

This episode had its moments but some stuff didn't really.. sit okay with me.

Miguel will never be a character I like and people can tell me I'm being unsightly mean and hating a character for unfounded reasons-hi, I've been here in these forums having these same type of discussions on different shows, check out my opinions- but something about him isn't sitting right and probably never will. And when he said to Kevin "I get that you don't like me.." but there must be a reason that adult Kevin is not fond of Miguel either. So let's let that resonate. Also where are Miguel's adult children?!?! Why have we never seen them?

Anyways.. knew that Jack would start drinking again and yes a bad feeling tells me it has something to do with his death. Also I'm glad we saw some imperfections in him as a person.

Unsure of how I feel about the camp guy and horse jerk being all "my parents own this camp! That's why I can sexual harass anyone I want to" the hell is that? And then that storyline just ended? I don't know. I mean maybe it ended if it did, what was the point of putting that whole thing in there?

Kevin might be my new favorite. I do feel bad for Sloane though.

[biakbiak]

7 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

so where are Miguel's adult children?!?! Why have we never seen them?

We haven't seen Beth's family either, hell I don't remember if they mentioned anyone other than her dead dad. The show has tons of characters and is also delving into the past of course their are storylines we aren't going to see at this point. 

[Court]

Shut up, Miguel. His speech was nice until he made it about himself. He just had to throw in that line to make Kevin feel bad. 

Both Jack and Rebecca were wrong.

I enjoyed Toby this episode! 

HorseDick's parents are also jackasses if they kick out anyone based on their son's say so. Kudos to whoever called that his parents owned the camp last week.

I hate that Kevin left his play but do love that he recognized that Randall wasn't OK. That he wanted to help him. 

[bybrandy]

I sort of love that HorseDick's parents had a kid with a weight and attitude problem and were like, I know we'll open up a fat camp with therapy.  That will help.  But no, no, no it so didn't help.

[Court]

Not seeing Beth's family doesn't bother me. 

There should have been a line about Miguel's kids during the holidays at least. Or the Big 3 would have mentioned them since they're their step siblings. The divorce seemed amicable at first.

With as close as Miguel and Jack were, you would think the Big 3 would be friendly with his kids growing up.

Or maybe Shelly, the kids and Jack all died in some horrid accident. 

@Winston9-DT3 Come join me in my Miguel hate. Irrational or not, I will remain here. 

[Dowel Jones]

2 hours ago, Artsda said:

Holy moly he bailed on his big opening night though. That's going to be hard to explain.

It would be just like Kevin to return to the playhouse, wave off the problem, and say something like "No big deal, we'll just make tomorrow our opening night."

Since they went all in with Jack, I wonder if making him look like the Robert de Niro character in Heat was intentional?  It sure made him look much more sinister to me.

[WhosThatGirl]

11 minutes ago, Court said:

Not seeing Beth's family doesn't bother me. 

There should have been a line about Miguel's kids during the holidays at least. Or the Big 3 would have mentioned them since they're their step siblings. The divorce seemed amicable at first.

With as close as Miguel and Jack were, you would think the Big 3 would be friendly with his kids growing up.

Or maybe Shelly, the kids and Jack all died in some horrid accident. 

@Winston9-DT3 Come join me in my Miguel hate. Irrational or not, I will remain here. 

I'm there in the hate. And it speaks volumes to me that there has been no mention of his kids, ever. Like at least Beth's family has gotten bits and pieces. Miguel never mentions anything about his kids and has spent both big family holidays Thanksgivinng and Christmas with The Pearsons. Whatever. It just speaks volumes to me.

[Racj82]

4 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

 

Kevin, you A-HOLE, you made me cry! I knew you'd go to Randall, I just knew it.

Thankwhatever gods there are Kate didn't sleep with Horse Dick. I liked her and Toby more than any other episode so far.

 

I feel like there has to be a better way to insult that dude. Most men would not mind being known as horse dick.

If you told me the adults actors did voice over for the teens I would believe it. Damn,  they have the inflections and mannerisms of the adult cast down!

I will also continue to not join in the Miguel hate. Most of it seems to be coming from gaps being filled in that the show hasn't said or even implied at all. I wait to actually see how it all unfolds. 

Edited February 15, 2017 by Racj82

[Cardie]

30 minutes ago, Court said:

With as close as Miguel and Jack were, you would think the Big 3 would be friendly with his kids growing up.

I had the impression that Miguel's kids were at least five years older than the Big Three. So I don't see play dates, necessarily. That the two families would know each other, of course. But the show has two more seasons to fill, at least, so I'm sure it is rationing out introducing all the players in the extended Pearson family.

[Racj82]

2 hours ago, HeyThere83 said:

There hasn't really been any journey with Kevin/Randall to get to this point, so I am mostly meh on it. These moments matter to me most when we see the path to getting there. But I think this show leaves that stuff out way too much. This was to move Kevin's plot along, I think.

I'm not sure what else they needed to add. We've already seen the breakthrough the brothers has after their pathetic fight. Kevin was the only one that could truly see what Randall was going through since beth was gone because he was the only one around to pay attention to it. He also knows Randall's issues. Everything about that plot between those two have been layed out. Lastly, Kevin being described as his dad's son really hit him. He wanted to step up and do what his father always did instead of turning his back on Randall like he used to 

[J-Man]

It's nice to see that Katie Couric is getting work.

[TheodoraK]

oh god, i'm so stupid. i came on here and read a lot of the comments before i was finished watching the show. i don't even know why i did that. but i didn't cry when kevin went to randall and randall was scared because i was so freaking pissed at kevin for ditching sloane!!! that isn't even remotely okay. to do that. phone randall, phone someone and tell him that he's on the way. randall can have his breakdown for a couple more hours. he's not going anywhere. and kevin can do the play or at least freaking tell sloane he's leaving so she can find an understudy. that was so contrived. to help someone by screwing over someone else? so not cool. i get it that he wasn't there for teen randall when he was crying -- and i don't even remember why teen randall was upset --  but it's not cool to bail on a fellow performer like that.

i know that others wouldn't agree and i'm sure i'm making it all too clear that i am a Looney Tune and know far too much about breakdowns, but whatever... :)

i don't get the hate for miguel. feel like i missed an episode there. i too am very shallow because i have always hated the way mandy moore moves her mouth when she talks. bugs the crap out of me. it's like she indicates, okay, now i am talking and you wouldn't know that if i didn't use my full mouth and face to show you that i'm talking. i'm so grateful to whomever pointed that out. so validating. that i love this show despite her being such a significant part if it speaks very highly of this show. not to mention that she's pretty much the wicked witch of the west for not telling randall about william even though we understand why she did that. i took perverse joy in that. and i found her acting to be much better as the older version of rebecca. probably because she was chastened and guilty, but, really, she was great in those scenes. 

wow, okay, just saw the previews -- well, part of them because my dvr is always cutting stuff off early. and now i am crying. shit, don't know if we are allowed to talk about previews on here or if they are spoilers so i won't say anymore. i am dreading the demise of jack. but the writing is pretty freaking good because they've set us up for that in so many ways and we get to see him as a fully dimensional human being before we lose him.

last thing. i am seriously tired of Kate being completely defined by her Being Fat. didn't we see her get that personal assistant job where the daughter was also fat? how did that just disappear? and what is she living on? how does she have money? to support herself? the actress and the character deserve to be complete human beings. and does Toby have a job? what is the deal with Big people not having jobs? i wonder if anyone else has been bothered by that.

[photo fox]

My mom's comment was that Kevin was afraid Randall was going to commit suicide.  Did anyone else think that?  I didn't on first watch, but viewing that clip again, there was this exchange:

Quote

Kevin: "Whatever, you'll see it eventually, right?"
Randall: (silence)
Kevin, insistently: "Right?"
Randall: "Okay then." (hangs up)

That does seem rather ominous.

[HeyThere83]

1 hour ago, Racj82 said:

I'm not sure what else they needed to add. We've already seen the breakthrough the brothers has after their pathetic fight. Kevin was the only one that could truly see what Randall was going through since beth was gone because he was the only one around to pay attention to it. He also knows Randall's issues. Everything about that plot between those two have been layed out. Lastly, Kevin being described as his dad's son really hit him. He wanted to step up and do what his father always did instead of turning his back on Randall like he used to 

Well that's the thing...it was all resolved in one episode back in October. Years of resentment went away after rolling around in the street for a minute. Typically I think that sort of thing takes a while to work through, with back and forth dialogue, and sometimes suffering setbacks.  Kevin had another very quick realization tonight that he is a heroic figure like his father and swung into action. I guess I prefer a little more fill-in-the-blanks in between for these big moments to feel earned.

[chocolatine]

I was glad to see Jack finally speak his mind to Rebecca, even if it wasn't a noble sentiment; it was a refreshing change from the perpetually self-sacrificing, grand-gesturing hero. As for "relapsing", we saw him have one drink. I know this is a heavy-handed TV show, so that drink will probably have a greater meaning, but in real life, plenty of people have a drink at the end of a sucky day without it meaning anything. 

Teenage Randall's first anxiety attack interrupted the sex talk Jack and Rebecca were having with Kevin. You could see Kevin's face fall when his parents immediately turned all their attention to Randall and forgot about him, and that's why I think he didn't go in to comfort Randall when he was having another anxiety attack in his room. It was petty of him, but also in character for a teenager. As for present day Kevin, I agree that it was unacceptable that he didn't even tell Sloane. The way he handled it made Sloane the collateral damage of his big "I'm my father's son" epiphany.

I'm not disagreeing with the principle that Rebecca should be able to put herself first every once in a while, but how could she even think about doing a tour for several weeks when Randall was displaying such severe anxiety symptoms? Every parent I know would put their child's well-being first in that kind of situation.

2 hours ago, bybrandy said:

I sort of love that HorseDick's parents had a kid with a weight and attitude problem and were like, I know we'll open up a fat camp with therapy.  That will help.  But no, no, no it so didn't help.

It's like this show lifted the Snowflake Academy storyline from Parenthood, but it makes even less sense in this context.

Edited February 15, 2017 by chocolatine

[SunFun]

Kevin definitely should have said something to Sloane, but it's one of those plot contrivances that I don't really blame the character for.  They wanted to have a moment of suspense - will Kevin go on?  Is he running away because he thought he was going to bomb?  No!  He's running to help Randall!  Awwww...  (It was completely telegraphed, but that's clearly what they were trying to do.)  It's just not as effective if Kevin takes Sloane aside five minutes before the curtain and calmly explains where he's going.

Ditto for Kevin having Kate or Rebecca go check on Randall while he went on with the show.  Yes, that would make sense, but the beauty (and the drama) were in the sacrifice.  And juxtaposed against those powerful moments of Teen Kevin watching Teen Randall cry and hyperventilate, before silently walking on.  And poor Randall hearing the door latch click and realize his brother saw him and just kept moving.  Heartbreaking.

Agree with all of that.

Kevin left when the realization hit him that he HAD to go NOW. No time for a plan of action. That's what family is suppose to do. There will be other plays, but only one brother. Good for Kevin. Sloan will likely understand.

Randall's run-up to his breakdown was so subtle, yet obvious at the same time. Beautifully conveyed. Realistic. Reminded me of "Ordinary People". Quiet pain through small gestures.

[SueB]

Lots of tears and gut-wrenching moments for me for this episode.  

William - WHO IS WRITING THIS???  This is so freakin' spot on.  If anyone has been with someone who is getting close to 'final stages', William's little outburst is a sucking chest wound.  And Randall is nope-ing out big time over this.
Kate - So well done with her inability to even TALK about her Dad's death.  Lovely writing and acting.  She is no where NEAR ready to drop the camp, it opened up the can of worms which is Jack's death and now she's without professional support.  So she's going to have to get some therapy going on her own.
Randall - The subtle acting of SKB is a thing of beauty.  He needs to learn to ASK FOR HELP.  He was drowning and his Beth wasn't there to intervene.  You could see it coming.  Especially after we had 'young Randall' have a meltdown.  And the 'previouslies' tipped us off.  But even knowing it was coming, the buildup was perfect.
Kevin - I cried twice over you dude. First was the Miguel (!) moment.  To be told that he is Jack Pearson's son is the GREATEST compliment Kevin could receive.  And that's who he aspires to be.  Miguel's stock rises up spectacularly for me with that scene.  And then each of the little interactions with Randall during the day.  He's picking up something is wrong but it's "Randall the Perfect" in his mind.  Until he's not. Perfect, that is.  And I'm so very proud of him running to Randall.  And yes, I BAWLED when he got there and held Randall.  IA he really screwed over Sloan. I'm so hoping there is an understudy.  Sloan was Olivia's understudy at one point.  But it's off-Broadway and they are financing the play themselves --- so, not sure. BUT, the point was Kevin was FINALLY there for Randall. And it was good.  And yet they did a great job of showing (again) why Kevin resents Randall (as his parents bail on 'the Talk' due to a Randall anxiety attack).  

Jack -- NOT GOOD.  I'm fine with the irrational fit.  I'm not good with the drinking.
Rebecca - Also not good.  She absolutely deserves to go on tour but she should have not kept silent about her issues.  They bottled up and came out all wrong in the argument (specifically that Jack was standing in her way).

PS. I totally CALLED IT last week regarding Kate telling off Horse Dick.  And she should sue.    
PSPS. I LOVE this show.  Irrationally. 

Edited February 15, 2017 by SueB

[Diana Berry]

I totally get Randall.  After my mother passed, I was talking to a supervisor at a big box store about a cashier job and totally started crying when she asked me a question.  I have no idea why.  Sometimes the grief and stress doesn't come until later and out of the blue.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

That Was Us:

[Arcadiasw]

If that fight leads to Jack dying in a crash, Rebecca will be feeling all kinds of guilt. If she had told Jack about working with her ex in the beginning, I think Jack would’ve been okay with it. I’m sure Jack would’ve been jealous and visit the club whenever Rebecca sang to keep an eye on the guy but perhaps after time he would’ve been okay with it and know nothing will happen with Rebecca and her ex but her keeping a secret from her husband changes the narrative and that will eat at Rebecca. I don’t know if it’s been mentioned but does older Rebecca sings?

With Miguel back on the prowl again, I wonder how long after Jack’s death did he move in on a grieving widow.

I’m okay with Toby wanting a long engagement but I still want to know how long they were dating. I was put off with Toby using Kate not disclosing how Jack died as the reason to extend the engagement. It’s obviously very hard for her. This was a relative Kate was very close to. I don’t think you can pressure anyone on when they should feel comfortable to tell you about a death of a close loved one. They have to come into that on their own.

I actually sympathize with Kevin. I’ve been in a similar situation where I had personal things going on in my life while a close relative was in distressed. You see they are troubled but you’re so consumed with your own stuff, you don’t stop and notice them and their issues until it’s almost too late. That said, I agree with an earlier comment that Kevin running to Randall was heavy handed and now his own career may go up in flames over this. Randall better get used to Kevin living in his basement.

[CofCinci]

Sloane's play was probably terrible and Jack-Kevin did her the biggest favor of her life by running out to save his brother.

[Spartan Girl]

I was fine with Miguel giving advice until it turned into another "why don't you like me" discussion. But maybe I should reserve judgement until we know more.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Spartan Girl

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Man, I must be more emotional than usual because this episode made me cry multiple times. Hearing William talk about how his body is breaking down and he doesn't know how much longer he can hold on made me cry. Watching Randall walk down the hallway, leaving William in his daughters' bedroom with the nurse made me cry. Kevin comforting Randall at the end of the episode made me cry. Kate struggling to tell Toby anything about Jack's death made me cry. Miguel telling Kevin how much he reminds him of Jack made me cry and described how they move their hands the same way. MIGUEL MADE ME CRY, YOU GUYS. This must be a sign of the apocalypse.

I am so glad that Miguel listened to Jack and didn't wear a fedora (although to be fair, if there's anywhere you can get away with wearing a douchey hat it's at a bar with live music on Valentine's Day).

I HATE that Kate apologized to Toby and said that she was a jerk when he came to camp. Why do people think it's okay to just show up unannounced at a place or event where you're supposed to be doing stuff? I think it annoyed me even more than it normally would have because it seems everyone on tv thinks that the best way to celebrate Valentine's Day is to show up at their significant other's workplace in the middle of a busy day and demand attention. Anyway, even though Toby was trying to do another one of his grand gestures when he showed up at camp, it was thoughtless of him to think that Kate could just leave in the middle of the day to go hang out with him and have sex. Places like that are expensive and they often have very set schedules, so it was really inconsiderate for him to expect her to drop everything because he was bored in New York all by himself. If he was able to drive himself all the way to upstate New York to visit her, he could have gotten himself down to DC (as Beth did to check on her mom) and gone to some really cool museums.

While I think it's great that Kate and Toby decided to "dive deep" and get to know each other better, the fact that they have to make a conscious effort to ask each other questions like that just shows that they shouldn't be getting married yet. I don't think you should consider marriage until you know the person fairly well. No, knowing who their first celebrity crush isn't crucial to a marriage, but the fact that they just don't know each other very well is the bigger problem. Maybe if their very short relationship didn't revolve around fighting about weight loss and having sex, they would have had the time to get to know each other organically instead of having to resort to rapidfire questioning about pets.

I have mixed feelings about postponing the wedding. On the one hand, I think they should wait to get married for the aforementioned reason (they don't know each other very well). There is nothing wrong with waiting. If you really love each other, there is no reason to rush because you'll still love each other if the wedding is next year instead of this year.

What I don't like is that Toby is essentially using emotional blackmail to get Kate to talk about Jack's death. I feel like this is less about his concern for Kate's emotional well being and his desire to feel needed. He wants her to cry on his shoulder. He wants to comfort her. My dad died almost three years ago and I rarely talk about it, except in factual ways (like "my dad died almost three years ago"). Sometimes I cry about it (heh, like when I watch this show). Sometimes I'll go weeks without even thinking about it. I don't know if that makes me weird or normal or what. But what I do know is that if my husband starting pestering me to talk about it, I would get annoyed. That's MY emotional scab and I don't need anyone else picking at it for me. And not to sound like a robot, but it comes down to this: my dad died. It made me feel like shit. What else is there to talk about?

As for his assessment of Duke as the Jared Leto of fat camp, I'm with Kate. That's a big NOPE. Don't you dare put Jordan Catalano and sexual harasser Duke in the same sentence, Toby! The reference was amusing though because This Is Us reminds me so much of Parenthood which was created by Jason Katims who worked on My So-Called Life.

I had to laugh when Kevin told Kate he was untwinning her for accidentally spilling the beans. Watching teenage Kevin is interesting because it's easy to see the conflict. He definitely did NOT want to talk about having sex with his parents, but he also resented Randall for having a panic attack and taking the attention away from him. So far, Kevin has shown the most growth over the season. I don't know that the Kevin we saw at the beginning of the season would have left his play to check on his brother. He would have put his career first and told himself that he would check on Randall afterward. But today's Kevin knew that he was torpedoing his career because he knew that Randall was not okay. Hell, teenage Kevin wouldn't even take a few steps to comfort Randall when he saw him having a panic attack, so running off and guaranteeing that the playwright would be furious with him and that the press would say he couldn't handle being a serious actor was a huge step in personal growth for Kevin.

Rebecca said she dated that guy for two months when she was 19. The kids were 16 in the flashbacks. That means she was supposed to be at least 46 (how long were she and Jack together before they had the kids?). I'm not saying I want them slapping old age makeup on her (it looks TERRIBLE on Miguel), but come on. Mandy Moore is 32 and she looks like it. I have a hard time buying her as a middle aged mom.

To be honest, I never thought much of Mandy Moore's singing skills back during her bubblegum pop days, but I loved her singing "Bring It on Home to Me." I love that song!

The original by Sam Cooke:

 

Cover by Wilson Pickett:

Otis Redding & Carla Thomas cover:

[Crs97]

1 hour ago, Arcadiasw said:

I don’t think you can pressure anyone on when they should feel comfortable to tell you about a death of a close loved one. They have to come into that on their own.

He didn't pressure her.  When he realized she couldn't talk about it, he gently told her he would wait until she was ready.  Then he suggested a long engagement because they need this time to know each other and be comfortable enough to tell each other these kinds of stories.  Most mature thing Toby has done so far on this show.

[Arcadiasw]

9 hours ago, SuzieQ said:

Wow!! Lots going on tonight!! Just some 

*Kate getting kicked out of camp is weird.  Makes me wonder if she was really kicked out or it was an excuse to leave? Even if his parents own the place, they must know their son is a loser if they are the only ones who will hire him.

I question that, too. The family makes money off that camp. They also get referenced by doctors like Kate's. All Kate had to do is gather all the women harassed by Duke, go to his parents, report him, tell her doctor about the camp or threaten to go to social media on his behavior. That family will lose a lot of potential clients if they are reported and rival camps will lure their current clients to them. 

[Haleth]

Oh, Kevin.  It was crappy to run out on the play and leave Sloane alone on stage.  I get that it was for The Drama and highly contrived, but in reality there were better ways to resolve a crisis than an impetuous bolt.  Kevin will be known as an impetuous bolter, first from The Manny and then from his comeback role in the play.  Hopefully the understudy was ready to go on in his place.  That said, it's hard to blame him for choosing Randall this time.  That last scene was heartbreaking.  Poor Randall.  He could have asked for help but it's in his character to be the fixer for his family.  He feels like a failure if he doesn't live up to his own expectations.  He wants to be perfect like his dad.

Kevin chooses family and maybe kills his career.  Randall chooses family and ditto career.  Rebecca wants to choose career (just for a month) and maybe loses Jack.  (Please don't have him die on the way home, writers.)  Kate is still on her own show and has no inkling that anything is wrong with her brothers.

Sterling Brown was his usual outstanding self in this episode, but Chrissy Metz and Justin Hartley brought it too.  

There are only 2 or 3 episodes left, yes?

[JudyObscure]

5 hours ago, memememe76 said:

But Chrissie did a really good job of wanting to speak but not being able to. I quite haven't seen that type of emotion expressed onscreen. 

I know.  I thought that was a simply amazing bit of acting.  She also looked so beautiful with her hair up for the play, I compared her to a young Ava Gardner.  She has the same diamond shaped face and gorgeous eyes.

Although it was pretty contrived, I didn't mind Kevin running out when he did.  It makes a sort of sense that Randall would call Kevin exactly at eight, because that's when he remembered the play, and then Kevin didn't have time to realize what was happening with Randall and what he should do, until the very last minute.

I've always felt sad for Miguel and the way he's treated at the family's special occasions.  I hope Kevin will grow-up enough now to accept that his mother has remarried, and it's to a very nice man.

Really Rebecca? Your singing is the only time Jack isn't in your way?  That's why the marriage experts tell us to keep our fights about the issue of the moment and not to bring up the entire past and do the "You always," thing.  I have no sympathy for Rebecca and her thing about doing something for herself.  She agreed to have children, she doesn't get to play the "Jack talked me into it," card forever.  It's a good long, 18 year minimum, commitment for any parent.  Nobody gets time off. To most of us time for ourselves means getting our hair done once every few months.   Jack doesn't get to go on a fishing vacation for five weeks to Scotland, to have time for himself.  Oh yes, she'd say this is her career, not a hobby, but I think it's a little bit of both, with probably very little earnings. And again, most parents don't get to choose a "fun," career that takes us out at night, when we could probably make more money doing a day job while the kids are in school.  I wouldn't call Jack insanely jealous either.  Who would want their spouse, out at night, singing romantic songs and working closely, with someone they once slept with for a couple of months?

That said, she doesn't deserve what I think is probably going to happen next week.  I'm almost afraid to watch.

[Arcadiasw]

7 hours ago, luna1122 said:

 

I liked Miguel tonight, and still have no clue why people hate him, except that he's not perfect, hot Jack. Also, I agree: Jeff Goldblum is really something.

 

I think Miguel is hated because he married his best friend wife and it's shown in flashbacks he was into her while Jack and Rebecca were married. Until their history is fleshed out, there will always be dislike towards Miguel. 

I thought Miguel would say Alec Baldwin and not Jeff Goldblum. I think Alec was the bigger star at the time. Plus he's been on NBC recently so that would be a nice plug for him. ;)

[Katy M]

I'm kind of torn on Kevin going to Randall at the end.  I guess it's great that he finally put his brother first and even sacrificed his whole career for it (because let's face it after the Manny walk-out and blowing off opening night of a play, he's not getting hired for anything again), but the thing is, it wasn't just his play.  There were other people counting on him as well.  I feel like he could have whispered to someone that they had to delay the start  5 minutes and cued in his mom, or Randall could have waited two hours.

After the last scene, I'm wondering if Jack drives in a drunk driving accident.  If it's that night, you would think Rebecca would be more the one with the guilt feelings and not being able to discuss it then Kate, but if it happens at some later time when Kate has some typical teenage girl fight with dad and he goes off and gets drunk and gets in an accident, well, that would totally suck for her.

[sadiegirl1999]

This is sort of OT in a way, but I've had several friends tell me that the actor who plays Toby wears a fat suit. Is this true?

B/c if it is, that makeup job is STELLAR.

It makes me think it is NOT true b/c Miguel's makeup looks like it was done by a middle school drama club.

[Kohola3]

Yep, a fat suit.

A small nitpick here. While we are not all created equal, I took offense at the characterization of the hospice nurse. I work for hospice and she was not very well portrayed.  We do everything in our power to give a good quality of life to our patients.  We don't deny things unless they are life threatening and we certainly don't stand by looking all pouty if a patient is unhappy.  They are expected to be unhappy - they're dying.  We understand and support any kind of mood.  I guess it was supposed to be another straw on the camel's back but it was a bit heavy handed.

[luna1122]

6 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I'm there in the hate. And it speaks volumes to me that there has been no mention of his kids, ever. Like at least Beth's family has gotten bits and pieces. Miguel never mentions anything about his kids and has spent both big family holidays Thanksgivinng and Christmas with The Pearsons. Whatever. It just speaks volumes to me.

I just feel like it might mean the writers haven't given a second thought to Miguel's kids yet, or that they have some huge drama involved with them (like Jack dies trying to save Miguel's kids in a fire and they all perish or some such BS), not that Miguel is some kind of deadbeat dad.

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Rebecca said she dated that guy for two months when she was 19. The kids were 16 in the flashbacks. That means she was supposed to be at least 46 (how long were she and Jack together before they had the kids?). I'm not saying I want them slapping old age makeup on her (it looks TERRIBLE on Miguel), but come on. Mandy Moore is 32 and she looks like it. I have a hard time buying her as a middle aged mom.

:

 

I actually thought that at least in the episode she didn't look 32. She didn't look 46, but she DID seem to look a little older than in previous episodes during this time frame.

7 hours ago, photo fox said:

Kevin definitely should have said something to Sloane, but it's one of those plot contrivances that I don't really blame the character for.  They wanted to have a moment of suspense - will Kevin go on?  Is he running away because he thought he was going to bomb?  No!  He's running to help Randall!  Awwww...  (It was completely telegraphed, but that's clearly what they were trying to do.)  It's just not as effective if Kevin takes Sloane aside five minutes before the curtain and calmly explains where he's going.

Ditto for Kevin having Kate or Rebecca go check on Randall while he went on with the show.  Yes, that would make sense, but the beauty (and the drama) were in the sacrifice.  And juxtaposed against those powerful moments of Teen Kevin watching Teen Randall cry and hyperventilate, before silently walking on.  And poor Randall hearing the door latch click and realize his brother saw him and just kept moving.  Heartbreaking.

I don't blame the characters for any of this, I still love the characters and the actors. I do blame the writers for thinking sad/dramatic situations have to be handled with a sledge hammer to the viewer's heads to get their point across.

 

Oh, lordy, that fat suit/ not fat suit pic. Toby apparently actually dresses like Chris Sullivan. That jacket he wore to the play was so very terrible. but I kinda dig Chris's flowery pants in that pic, they're hilarious.

Edited February 15, 2017 by luna1122

[Katy M]

Speaking of kids.  Where are Randall's?  We know that he dropped them off at school because it made him late to work.  But, did anybody pick them up?  That's not the hospice nurse's job. 

[GodsBeloved]

Bravo Kevin!

[ferretrick]

Did anybody understand the last word Randall said to Kevin on the phone, the one that really clued Kevin in that Randall was losing it? It almost sounded like he called him Dave, but if so, I don't get the significance.

[llewis823]

10 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

That brief scene among the three teens was the first time I thought I was looking at the Big Three. Whoever directed this did an amazing job coaxing a performance out of them that was so reminiscent of the adult actors.

I thought the same - the people responsible for casting them (looks-wise - dead ringers for what they would have looked like at that age) and for the people responsible for coaching them to have the same mannerisms/expressions/voice inflections...just phenomenal!

[Mldh598]

10 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

 

Toby:. Tell my about your fathers death.   And even knowing the writers said we won't find out for awhile several million people sat straight up from their couches screaming this is it!

This was totally me, even though I knew the chances were next to zero. LOL