S33.E13: I'm Going For A Million Bucks / S33.E14: Reunion

[Ms Blue Jay]

13 minutes ago, Daisy said:

And we have to wait until March 8th? Bad form, CBS!

Bad form?  That's less than 3 months away.  For an entirely new season.  LOL.   Big Network shows, the traditional model, take six months.  You know some shows take 1 entire year between new seasons, right, like on Netflix? Try being a Curb Your Enthusiasm fan and wait 5 years.  Survivor fans are spoiled.

And how could they possibly have filmed it faster than this?  Zeke and Michaela just ended their season today.....

Edited December 15, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Daisy]

Just now, Ms Blue Jay said:

Bad form?  That's less than 3 months away.  LOL.   Big Network shows, the traditional model, take six months.  You know some shows take 1 entire year between new seasons, right, like on Netflix? Try being a Curb Your Enthusiasm fan.  Survivor fans are spoiled.

lol Survivor's usually February. ;) so it's longer this time. 
as a Outlander/Game of Thrones fan, yah i know about the year wait. 

[LanceM]

I am listening to the jury speaks videos now and the feeling I am getting is that Adam would have won this season even if he didn't bring up his mother. The only difference probably would have been that it would not have been unanimous.

[anthonyd46]

1 minute ago, LanceM said:

I am listening to the jury speaks videos now and the feeling I am getting is that Adam would have won this season even if he didn't bring up his mother. The only difference probably would have been that it would not have been unanimous.

Heres my thoughts on those:

Bret - Adam , other 2 are complete jokes Adam didn't have the best game, but he was constantly thinking and making moves. Also thought Adam was responsible for getting Dave out. Didn't say about Hannah or Ken specifically just referenced them as complete jokes.  Final vote from this : Adam

Taylor - Adam, attempted to make alot of moves some worked some didn't but he's there. Hannah is the goat good person, but a goat. Ken was extremely loyal, but has 0 strategic game. Open minded can't decide to pick someone based on whether  do they need the money or good gameplay Final vote from this : Up in the air

Sunday - Wants to vote for the person who played the most strategic game. 100% locked in. Didn't like how 2 people played the game, but liked how one person did. Ken - pulled off one huge last minute voted showed me that he finally woke up and played the game, Adam - was good about collaborating and putting people together from two different alliances, Hannah - flipper, got to the right people at the right time flipped at the right time 0% chance she votes for her. Final vote from this : Adam or Ken

Zeke - Person who played the best strategic game, most risks, leader. David wins in a landslide if he's in F3. Hannah - Didn't like how she played in David's shadow needs to be convinced how she wasn't a cotail rider. Adam - Saw how hard he was playing, playing, but wasn't always playing well, two failed idol plays. Blazing his own path, but never very effective till the end also credits Adam with the David boot. Ken - Says credit for the David boot can be split 3 ways. Dominant in challenges. Fish, work, old school. Stratgic game from all 3 is a wash, therefore have to go back to the basics and Ken wins the basics by a mile Final vote from this : Ken

David - Who played the best overall game and played the hardest. Only one name. Says Jeremy made an epic Final Tribal speech so a speech could sway his vote. Adam - Plays hard, two idols, 1 II, coherent arguments, strategizing plotting scheming. Respects him. Hannah - The millennial David, 24 year old female version of David. Sees that as a struggle for her. Irrational moves. Saving him was one of them. Alec guiness in some movie building a bridge and realizes it was a mistake = Hannah's game. Playing both sides. Could make a solid case excited to see if she can pul that off. Ken - No strategy, provider, He was "there". He didn't play a really good game. Final vote from this : Adam

Will - Hannah - Only would vote for if he decided taking out David was her biggest move. Ken - Old schooler, provider, should be taken seriously Adam - Tried to make moves. The game would have changed if Adam had control, but no one let Adam have control. He survived.  Final vote from this : Ken or Adam

Jessica - Im a lawyer I don't want to be on juries, but its incredible to be a part of changing someones life. Hannah - Commitment issues. Her fault for going to rocks. Adam - Never was a leader, but he was trying. Involved in alot of moves, not all of them worked. Never had a huge target, but backed off when was getting close. Multiple idols. Didn't look like a threat, but thats a good thing, because it puts the target. Ken - "A survivor" Loyal, Genuine, Lied only twice. You can't gain respect by being genuine without being strategic. Everyone is frustrated with Ken because they saw no strategy before Day 33. She is looking for loyalty. Final vote from this : Ken or Adam

Michelle - Strategic play. Adam - Believable and persuasive. 90 % sure voting for Adam Hannah - Correct votes every time. Would need to be blown away by Ken or Hannah. Final vote from this : Adam

Jay - Sucks I didn't win who is the next biggest warrior? Strategy, social, growth. Hannah - found loopholes Ken - Provided, but drives him crazy. No strategy Adam - Name ever came up. Shielded by the big threats. Underdog. Gives Adam credit for the David boot. Final vote from this : Adam

Chris - Strategy, Timing, Ken - Immunity challenge strength. Provider, no strategy, no real good social skills. Respected the Dave voted out. Adam - Timing, smart, making moves, scrapping. Gives credit for the ken flip to Adam. Hannah - UTR, but spying and getting intel. Quirky. Final vote from this : Adam

Common theme seems to be Adam wins for A for effort his moves didn't work, but A for effort good job trying even though most of your moves failed. Ken too old school, but thats not a bad thing, however, might have not evolved in the game enough looks like he was being considered a bit. Hannah has commitment issues. Looks like Ken was heading towards a few votes, but Adam's failed efforts over rule no efforts. Kind of a weird way to put it, but this jury saw trying better than not trying. Adam did have 5 locked in votes for sure. A lot seemed to give Adam the Ken flipping credit and I don't know why. With Adam starting with 4 votes from Bret, David, Michele, Jay, Chris and Ken only Having Zeke. So Adam had 5 of the 6 already who had their mind made up already.

[loki567]

I gotta to ask any parent out there, one of your last acts on this Earth is set your kid up with a million dollars but he has to use your death in exploitative way. Would you let him do it? Would you be glad he did it? Everybody's probably going to have a different answer to that question but I'd let my kid use my decomposing head as a soccer ball if he needed it.

Ain't no shame when it comes to paying off student loans is all I'm saying. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

I don't know if everyone's issue with Adam is the exploitation thing. For me personally, it's the not waiting a year and just doing it next season thing.  That's the part that's "harder" for me.  

I don't care about the exploitation thing because I'm like you.  But the not being there in his mother's final month or so, that is the tougher thing. I won't make a harsh judgement either way......  I can't get worked up over his life choices.  I'm just thinking out loud. (And yes, I've heard how his mother wanted him to do it THIS year.  I get it.)

It's funny, I thought I was the biggest TV fanatic, and I really love this show, but man this family takes it to a whole 'nother level.  It's hard to even wrap my mind around - but I guess everyone has a different dream.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[MVFrostsMyPie]

And Westworld isn't coming back until 2018 (damn you HBO, really). 

Pleasantly surprised local guy Adam won. Hey, living in SF is brutally expensive even if you're a techie. As a nonprofit professional, it's even fucking harder. #thestruggleisreal. If I was Ken, I would have voted out David too. I mean, what did they really expect him to do? I mean, do you stay 'loyal' just so you can say you stayed 'loyal' and give the win away to your buddy? Really they should have voted David out before Bret. Bret may have had friends on the jury, but I'm not sure that that is enough to get people to vote for you. Like, let's give the jury a little more credit. 

I'm going to miss beautiful shirtless Ken. But kudos to both him and Adam using their Survivor exposure to raise awareness and money for causes they believe in. 

And Hannah... I still can't figure out why you always looked soooo dirty :( You couldn't even wipe the sand off your face just sitting around. 

Did I mention I'm going to miss Ken? 

[sassykattt]

I love men.  Loved my father, my uncles, my sons and grandsons and maybe one or two others.  That said, I can't stand men like Brett and Chris.  They think the know women.  Like women are almost boys.  Whatever they assume is law, and no need to listen to anything else.  Lunkheaded jerks.  Chris especially reminds of a guy I was "in charge" of when I had a minor supervisory position. He would argue with me, talk over me and take off for hours. Hated him

[Jextella]

40 minutes ago, GaT said:

I don't have a problem with him telling his tale (though I admit, I am sick to death of listening to it & watching him sob), what I think is crap is that he didn't tell it to anyone but Jay the whole season, but right before the final vote he pulls it out. If he didn't want to suffer in silence, then he should have spoken up during the game. I think he only brought it up to get the vote.

The final episode proved to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that trust is never absolute nor unconditional.  Ken bagging David was an obvious example.  Adam sharing his story after promising himself he'd keep it to himself is another, albeit a less obvious example.

The moment someone feels threatened, trust goes out the window - even when promises  are made to oneself.  People do what they feel they have to do to stay alive as individuals first and foremost.  The line is different for all, but we all have one.

For a game in which social skills are paramount, it is very much a game that leaves players stripped completely bare and standing alone. 

I do wish Adam hadn't said anything.   I think he would have swept the votes regardless, but if it were me, I'd constantly wonder if I won mostly out of sympathy.

Anyway, anyone know what happens for 2nd and 3rd place?  Does Adam get to keep the winnings of the others since he got all the votes?

Edited December 15, 2016 by Jextella

[Bigwheels1971]

5 minutes ago, Jextella said:

Does Adam get to keep the winnings of the others since he got all the votes

I think H & K split 100k, since they both got 2nd place (which is one reason I don't like F3)

[Rowan]

This season ended up bring pretty entertaining for me. I wasn't overly attached to one survivor, but I didn't hate anyone with a passion either. Seems like that would have made my interest wane, but they all made it work for me somehow. 

Hannah, I didn't know I was pulling for ya until they completely dismissed you at final tribal. Ken may have ultimately reached his decision to vote David out without her influence, but she freakin' put the work in on Ken only to see Adam given the credit for it. 

Congrats to Adam. I do feel he earned it, and think he would have gotten it even without the cancer reveal. 

[Jextella]

7 minutes ago, Bigwheels1971 said:

I think H & K split 100k, since they both got 2nd place (which is one reason I don't like F3)

That's not bad.  I'm not sure what Ken's financial situation is, but 50k less taxes is enough for a down payment on a house if he needs.  That's definitely something so I guess I won't feel too badly for him.  

[Wandering Snark]

Here's the part that just came to me that bothers me: How would people have looked at him threat-wise if say he'd told a close group of trusted allies along the way... how do you vote when you can take him out att a vote and you see that he has that sympathy vote with the jury eventually? Do you vote him out over other 'good stories'/threats out there like, say, David? How does it reshuffle the totem pole and where does he end up when coming down the stretch? Does he even make it that far to "use" the info?

[backformore]

There was something very weird going on with Dave's cheek/face at the end.  I didn't watch the last hour, but was anything mentioned?  Like he had an impacted tooth, or an infection of some sort.

I didn't want Adam to win.  I don't like him, and I don't think he played better than Hannah, Ken, or David.

[Bigwheels1971]

31 minutes ago, Wandering Snark said:

Does he even make it that far to "use" the info?

Honestly, probably not.  Because I think it would have been framed as, "Do I want to be sitting at F3 with a guy who's mom is terminally ill?"

Edited December 15, 2016 by Bigwheels1971

[MrsR]

Great season. Only bummer was Adam's inexplicable unanimous vote for the win. Truly baffling.

Watching it all I love Jay. Hope he returns someday.

[SlackerInc]

As per usual, my first thoughts are the notes I took while watching:

How far they have come since the early seasons when they tried to maintain the illusion that the set where the votes are read is still on the island, never mind all the weight they gained.

Curled up in front of the couch?  OK, Jeff, maybe.  More likely, on the couch, in front of the TV.

Hannah's armpit hair, LMAO... but thrn at the end of the intro they showed a fearsome, intense image of her to balance it.

Poor Jay.  No clue at all.

Did production leave Hannah's glasses by the puzzle for her?

Adam ultimately got incredible value from the advantage that initially seemed so dubious and tainted.

Brett, they can't cost themselves AND you the million.  There's only one top prize!

I can't believe Hannah's leaning tower didn't fall.

Ken pointlessly threw away his loyalty and got no votes.

Adam was a dead ringer for Dave Foley at the live show.

Who was the shamanic looking dude in the back row?  I don't remember him at all.

Oh joy, two seasons in a row of Michaela.  Actually, I'm not fond of most of those returnees; I'll be hoping for some better reinforcements but of those, I'd root for Tai.

[violet and green]

Oh. It was always going to be a bummer of a final for me, the second Jay got voted out, but that was dreadful!

Poor Ken, his platform is loyalty, and then he cuts his loyal friend's throat. With David next to him in the F3 he would have had a decent chance at second place. I felt sad for him that he didn't even get Dave's vote (not that I blame Dave for that), and was clearly stricken, and just kicking himself all through that reunion show.

Adam. Honestly, I just don't trust anyone who does that big open mouthed, exposed jaw, raw, bald-faced crying he did all freaking season, mostly to the camera people - especially anyone who does it repetitively. It's histrionic, it's milking the story for the attention, to my mind. (His pain is real, though, I don't doubt that.) Most people make some attempt to shield their face when they cry, at least partially - but that type never miss an opportunity to go the full bawl. I can't stand it! A woman I know does it every single time a fresh person comes into the group. I knew he'd use his sad story at the final tribal council, and kudos to him for saving it up for the dramatic reveal at the very end, here he goes! Wooshka. I thought for a moment there in the reunion he was going to donate his full mill to the charity. But quick as a flash he got the 100k out there, so the drug company had to honor their promised match. Not my favorite winner.

I was really rooting for David after Jay went, so it was disappointing all round.

Good on Jif for not interviewing any random kids or returning "favorites" or general randos in the audience!

Looking forward muchly to next season!

[piequinn35]

Well well it was a great season I didn't  think it was sympathy votes Adam did play better than the other 2. Congrats Adam. 10-0-0 wow!

Fake idol was awesome lol! Legacy adv was useless and mostly all the HII were useless.

I knew Ken wouldn't win coz 1. My bet never won in survivor 2. He lacked social strategy 3. I wouldn't voted David, I would have let it to a fire making tie breaker. 4. He had a hard time explaining unlike the other players and he should have apologized to David for voting him out or have explained more why he voted him (bec. He won't win against him).

 

ps. thanks dkb

[SlackerInc]

3 hours ago, anthonyd46 said:

Never seen a winner with so much NSPV. The bickering in FTC was insane. 

NSPV?

[piequinn35]

Oh haha I laughed when Jeff said in front of the couch, my hubby and I were like huh he meant in front of the tv! On the couch!

And I will miss Ken :(

[violet and green]

1 hour ago, SlackerInc said:

Who was the shamanic looking dude in the back row?  I don't remember him at all.

That was Paul. Boat mechanic and rocker.

[piequinn35]

13 minutes ago, SlackerInc said:

NSPV?

Negative second person view? Adam and Hannah were crazies at ftc lol

[anthonyd46]

20 minutes ago, piequinn35 said:

Negative second person view? Adam and Hannah were crazies at ftc lol

Yea Negative Second Person View. I thought Ken was playing it cool not getting involved sitting back, but once Chris said that Adam caused Ken to flip then wouldn't even hear Ken out I was like oh boy this is not good. 

[candall]

3 hours ago, dkb said:

... then Adam had a perfect opportunity to use his moms story served up by Jay, he chose not to; I think it was the whole game coming to an end and he just couldn't keep it in anymore. ...

I saw it as exactly the opposite, which is why I considered it "a move" and disliked it.  Adam was SO getting ready to spill the news about his mother during Jay's time at the podium.  The tears started and he had the shaky voice when he said:  "YOU know why it means everything to me . . ." and then Jay rather summarily closed out and sat down.  Adam got the quivering and emotion going afresh with the final jury member, his last chance.

I've been there, somewhat, and I feel for the guy.  And I'm not even criticizing him, because from everything we know about his Survivor Superfan mom, she would have said, "Don't be an idiot, son, and not play all the cards you have!"

But it would have been interesting to know how the jury assessed Adam's gameplay on merit alone.

 

3 hours ago, Negritude said:

Really hate that Hannah didn't speak up when Chris wrongly assumed that Adam swayed Ken to vote out David. Ken of course would've denied it, but she did specifically tell Adam to let her work on him.

 ....

Yes, Hannah was robbed for not getting any recognition on that.  But once "Judd For The Defense" Chris made the case that it was all Adam's strategy (for which I see no evidence at all) and then Ken tried to sweep that point into his own column--how could she possibly have piped up third to say, "No no, wait, that was ME!"  She was smart to realize that wasn't going to be a good look.

I didn't like Ken's refusal to set the record straight that it was Hannah, and not Adam, who was singing in his ear.  If he wanted to be Captain Honor Code, he could at least have said, "Actually, I'd already made my mind up ('cuz Daughter!) but Hannah was the one who wouldn't shut up about the need to get rid of David."

 

3 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I didn't really understand why everyone in the game including David and Jeff acted like David was such a surefire winner, if he went to final three?  And at his last tribal, why was David proclaiming his game was the best?  He should've been downplaying his accomplishments.  No wonder Ken voted him out.  

Ha!  I loved that misstep because I thought that one little move--pushing the "way up here" hand higher (wtf?!)--was going to cost David some serious vote-age.  Maybe even lose him the game.

 

2 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

  What, no Boston Rob?

Do not even put that out into The Universe.

**********************************

I thought it was a excellent season overall and the only part that fell really flat was the conclusion.  A unanimous jury should indicate one player's game was head and shoulders above his co-FTCers, and Adam didn't earn that.  In fact, before Chris put his big stupid thumb on the scale and Adam dropped the mom bomb, I was hoping it was going to be a sweet ending to a nice season, with each of the three getting a vote or two.

Of the three sitting at the end, I would have given Hannah my merit vote.

[mojoween]

Hannah did talk to Ken about David, but it is also entirely possible that Ken was humoring her and really did make up his mind all on his own.  His defense of himself to Chris makes sense that way.

Since Ken was bummed about the vote for David, and had been incredibly honorable the entire time, I believe he would have credited Hannah if there was a lot of truth to it.

Yes I do have Ken blinders on but I also truly believe what I am saying, heh.

[LadyChatts]

What really bothered me about the FTC, in putting the story aside, is that Adam tried to constantly interrupt Ken and especially Hannah and act like he was in control.  That's really what bugged me more than anything, was he was trying to act like a puppet master.  Hannah obviously wasn't a cooperative puppet since she did a good job trying to defend herself and explain that she made her moves on her own, without outside help, to further her game, even if others thought they were stupid.  Chris with his stupid soapbox speech about why Adam should win was equally pathetic.  I wish Jeff had actually touched on all of that rather than only give Ken and Hannah airtime at the reunion over that crush clip.  But then that might have clouded Adams victory.  

Though I do appreciate both were able to discuss their issues with anxiety.  I feel like there was an underlying theme to this season that went beyond what it was meant to be.

[anthonyd46]

12 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

What really bothered me about the FTC, in putting the story aside, is that Adam tried to constantly interrupt Ken and especially Hannah and act like he was in control.  That's really what bugged me more than anything, was he was trying to act like a puppet master.  Hannah obviously wasn't a cooperative puppet since she did a good job trying to defend herself and explain that she made her moves on her own, without outside help, to further her game, even if others thought they were stupid.  Chris with his stupid soapbox speech about why Adam should win was equally pathetic.  I wish Jeff had actually touched on all of that rather than only give Ken and Hannah airtime at the reunion over that crush clip.  But then that might have clouded Adams victory.  

Though I do appreciate both were able to discuss their issues with anxiety.  I feel like there was an underlying theme to this season that went beyond what it was meant to be.

I agree this irrated me too. Adam was just the whole game acting like he was in another world at times. He would do such irritating things which is why I thought he never had a shot. They usually don't show the winner annoying people that much. As far as David he wins this easily if he's there. Watch his ponderosa video and you will see how much the jury respected him. He comes in the jury door and EVERY single person hugged him it was insane. Plus if David is in the F3 Adam isn't and theres no way Ken and Hannah are beating David. 

47 minutes ago, candall said:

 

I thought it was a excellent season overall and the only part that fell really flat was the conclusion.  A unanimous jury should indicate one player's game was head and shoulders above his co-FTCers, and Adam didn't earn that.  In fact, before Chris put his big stupid thumb on the scale and Adam dropped the mom bomb, I was hoping it was going to be a sweet ending to a nice season, with each of the three getting a vote or two.

Of the three sitting at the end, I would have given Hannah my merit vote.

Yes a 10-0 winner should not be shown to be such a rat, annoying, and bizarre person. I really thought all that would be toned down if he won. They didn't tone any of it down. If you watch the youtube videos the conclusion of the jury basically is Adam gets an A for effort. Ken is a survivor old school player and didn't evolve. Hannah was useless. At least 4 jurors said Adam made bad moves, moves that didn't work, didn't make sense, but he gets their vote because making moves and failing is better than not making moves at all.

[brilliantbreakfast]

This was the best season in a long, long time.  I would have been fine with a win by either Adam, David or Jay.  I'm not unhappy that Adam won, I just wish he would have won it without playing the cancer card.  I know he was anxious to get home and worried about his mother, but there is this "Win one for the Gipper" quality to it that unfortunately will ALWAYS remind people of the Jonny Fairplay Dead Grandma ploy.  I hated myself for thinking that because I'm sure it was genuine, but Adam is SUCH a strategist that it was hard to know.

Ken.  What a fascinating man, and not even for the obvious reasons.  I don't know why it came to me as such a surprise that he was so socially awkward, given that I spent 30 years married to a spectacularly good-looking man with low self-esteem who was socially awkward (R.I.P. Mr. B. October 2013).  You'd think I of all people would know that you can't judge a book by its cover.  And Hannah -- so adorable crushing on him...the less-than-gorgeous, smart Jewish girl crushing on the uber-goy.  Yeah, I identified with her because back in 1983 I couldn't fathom what something that looked so good could possibly see in me either.  I really wanted them to say at the reunion that they were a couple.  (Of course they didn't say they WEREN'T, so you never know.)  That would have done my heart good.  <3

I think Ken was really disappointed that he didn't win, even though it must have been a foregone conclusion by that point.   He looked at the reunion like he wanted to sink through the floor, so not sure he grew or evolved that much as a result of being on the show.  Sad.  David, on the other hand, just seems so much more SUBSTANTIAL, not just physically but as a human being.  When he said that he won even though he lost, he was absolutely right.  What he got from being on the show cannot be bought with a million dollars.

Next season's cast -- yuk.  I have no interest in seeing any of those people again, other than Michaela and the chance to look at Malcolm Freberg every Wednesday for a few weeks. 

[mojoween]

Plus when Hannah was talking at the reunion Ken reached over and kissed her on the head.  Yeah I would have melted into the floor at that point.

Ok I swear I'll stop now.  

[LadyChatts]

11 minutes ago, anthonyd46 said:

I agree this irrated me too. Adam was just the whole game acting like he was in another world at times. He would do such irritating things which is why I thought he never had a shot. They usually don't show the winner annoying people that much. As far as David he wins this easily if he's there. Watch his ponderosa video and you will see how much the jury respected him. He comes in the jury door and EVERY single person hugged him it was insane. Plus if David is in the F3 Adam isn't and theres no way Ken and Hannah are beating David. 

Yes a 10-0 winner should not be shown to be such a rat, annoying, and bizarre person. I really thought all that would be toned down if he won. They didn't tone any of it down. If you watch the youtube videos the conclusion of the jury basically is Adam gets an A for effort. Ken is a survivor old school player and didn't evolve. Hannah was useless. At least 4 jurors said Adam made bad moves, moves that didn't work, didn't make sense, but he gets their vote because making moves and failing is better than not making moves at all.

That goes back to my original point.  Adam was a flip flopper.  He was scatter brained.  They can criticize Hannah for making bad moves, but not Adam?  Especially when Hannah owns those moves, and says she felt they were in her best interest.  Adam kept making such an issue over the Bret vote, and yet I still thought Hannah handled herself nicely in explaining why she targeted him and Sunday.  That whole FTC just left a really bad taste in my mouth.  

Its funny you say Ken is old school, because when he said that he did so much around camp and was a provider, my first thought was 'that was the old school way of winning.'

[navelgazer]

I watched avidly up until that treacly win.  My level of enjoyment of this season went from a high based on I actually did like everyone left and was pleased there was no archetypal evil player and with how they put everything out there with each other.  Now and from now on I'll be like oh, meh.  

[sharkfina]

great season. too bad about the winner :(

[CraftyHazel]

4 hours ago, Jextella said:

The final episode proved to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that trust is never absolute nor unconditional.  Ken bagging David was an obvious example.  Adam sharing his story after promising himself he'd keep it to himself is another, albeit a less obvious example.

The moment someone feels threatened, trust goes out the window - even when promises  are made to oneself.  People do what they feel they have to do to stay alive as individuals first and foremost.  The line is different for all, but we all have one.

For a game in which social skills are paramount, it is very much a game that leaves players stripped completely bare and standing alone. 

I do wish Adam hadn't said anything.   I think he would have swept the votes regardless, but if it were me, I'd constantly wonder if I won mostly out of sympathy.

Anyway, anyone know what happens for 2nd and 3rd place?  Does Adam get to keep the winnings of the others since he got all the votes?

The way I have always heard it, if there are equal...or no...votes for the other two people in the final three, the prizes for second and third place are combined and those two contestants split the $185,000 total.  Not a million dollars, to be sure, but also not a bad payout for a little over a month of even grueling "Survivor" style living.

[Eolivet]

2 hours ago, candall said:

Adam was SO getting ready to spill the news about his mother during Jay's time at the podium.  The tears started and he had the shaky voice when he said:  "YOU know why it means everything to me . . ." and then Jay rather summarily closed out and sat down. 

I couldn't help but think of the contrast between Jeremy (from last year's Second Chances) and Adam -- and I don't fault either one for their strategies, honestly. I saw Jeremy's "pregnancy" bomb as a controlled, strategic move: he kept that close to the vest all season, and then released it like a mic drop at final tribal council. An exclamation point on his strong season. Adam's I saw more as a more of a "desperate" move. I do think David gave him the perfect opening with his question, but I don't know if Adam would've said anything if David's final question had been "Pick a number." I think Adam saw an "opportunity" (crass as that sounds) and took it, but had the opportunity not been presented, I think Adam might've remained silent, and taken his chances. He wasn't bound and determined to release that information, like Jeremy was. It didn't feel like a preconceived "strategy" -- more of a "in the moment" type thing, at least to me.

But after Jay was voted out, I was pretty sure Adam was winning. They spent far too much time on his story, on the family reward, on last episode's hammock confessional for that to point to a Hannah, Ken or even David win (Bret: LOL). That footage is easily excised if Adam is sullenly voted out in 4th place. I thought it was pointing to a Jay win, but after the fake idol debacle, I was pretty sure there was no way it couldn't be Adam.

It bothers me that knowing this, they also devoted time to Hannah's "I make big moves and big moves are what win this game!" confessionals -- which in hindsight, weren't meant to be seen as strategic or powerful, but I guess annoying and delusional (given that she didn't win, and I'm sure the editors knew that after the final tribal council).

Edited December 15, 2016 by Eolivet
Because we're all superfans here, but everybody might not know who Jeremy is.

[alexa]

5 hours ago, loki567 said:

I gotta to ask any parent out there, one of your last acts on this Earth is set your kid up with a million dollars but he has to use your death in exploitative way. Would you let him do it? Would you be glad he did it? Everybody's probably going to have a different answer to that question but I'd let my kid use my decomposing head as a soccer ball if he needed it.

Ain't no shame when it comes to paying off student loans is all I'm saying. 

I can't really answer this because I didn't see it at all that he exploited his mom.  I fully believe his mom and family wanted him to do this.  It was clear throughout the season how hard it was for him, but at the same time he was glad to have something he could do for his mom.  And then at the end for him to spill out the story--did it help him win?  Sure, but it was clear to everyone there how he really felt, how the situation impacted him, etc.  I just don't see it quite as negatively as described in the question above.

[Bryce Lynch]

8 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Well, this season really went downhill for me by the end.  They should have just handed Adam the check at 8 and spared us 2 hours.  They couldn't have made it more obvious he was winning.  Honestly, I think he was kind of a jerk, trying to come off as a master mind.  What the hell, trying to tell Hannah what she can and can't talk about when trying to answer the juries questions?  He got credit for moves he didn't make.  He seemed to enjoy setting her off and pick on her during that final questioning.  With Hannah and Ken's confessionals about why they deserved to win, and Ken talking about being the provider around camp, I knew they were losing.  It was already obvious, but that cemented it.  And I just can't get behind people who play a sob story.  At least at the very end.  If you talk about it throughout the season, maybe it won't seem like such a strategy thing.

Oh well.  Okay season all around, just another win that clouded what was good about it.  Guess we'll be getting a ton of sob stories in the future.  Maybe 3 people with real sob stories, and 17 Jonny Fairplays who make stuff up to gain sympathy.

And for the record, I lost my dad to lung cancer, so I sympathize with Adam's struggle.  I get it.  I can't imagine being in his shoes, and knowing my loved one was back home dying.  But that's why I have a hard time getting behind people who use that to get ahead.

While I was fine with Adam winning, I agree about him playing the sob story.

I think the show needs some new Fairplays to con people with fake sob stories, so those with real sob stories won't be able to use them, as nobody will believe them.

[AZChristian]

Watching the finale was unique for me last night.  I live in AZ, and I always peek online to see who's going to win, because I love to watch how it all develops when I know the ending.  But right now, I'm in Florida and watched it in "real time," not knowing the outcome.

Hannah impressed me with her non-apologetic explanation of why she voted the way she did.  She did what was best for herself.  I often wonder why some people think they can manipulate others on an ongoing basis, as though the purpose of their alliance is to get that one specific person to the final spot . . . and no one else has a right to work on their own behalf.  But someone (like Hannah) who does the strategic move is seen as a flipper.

Ken seems like a really good guy, and he also made some valid comebacks during FTC.  Too little, too late unfortunately.

I have no problem with Adam, but didn't personally care for the final scene when he brought up his mother.  Had he not done that, it would not have been a unanimous vote.  

Pretty good season, all in all.  I'm not sure I want to see some of those returnees, so next season is iffy for me.

[thejuicer]

I thought David came across very classy. No bitterness, no snarky juror comments, even hugged Ken on his way out. He seems like a wonderful human being.

[Blissfool]

5 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

(And yes, I've heard how his mother wanted him to do it THIS year.  I get it.)

I think that's just how he makes himself feel better about his decision . "She wanted me to do it THIS year."  I'm pretty it wasnt a case of mom wants me to do it this year so let me get the ball rolling.

I'm sure  survivor called him first, he felt trepidation, and his mom convinced him to do it because that's what moms do.

[Rachel RSL]

1 hour ago, mojoween said:

Plus when Hannah was talking at the reunion Ken reached over and kissed her on the head.  Yeah I would have melted into the floor at that point.

Ok I swear I'll stop now.  

And he was rubbing her back as they were reading the votes. *swoon*

Quote

Ken is a survivor old school player and didn't evolve

I hated Zeke's stupid question about how they helped the game evolve. WTF does that even mean? What does Zeke think he did that was so revolutionary?

Edited December 15, 2016 by Rachel RSL

[Ellee]

For some reason I'm pretty sure the jury already knew about Adam's mother.  We will see if Jay spilled the beans or not during the days to come. 

I really really really came to like Jay. (Positive comment about Jay not to be confused with a negative about anyone else.)

This was a terrific group of people to play Survivor.  

Here is to all of them getting good things from this experience. 

[blackwing]

Congrats to Adam I guess.  He made it to the end, and I do think his strategic game was better than Ken's or Hannah's.  However, I really hate that he had to resort to exploiting the fact that his mother was dying.  He probably would have won without it.  I would have had a lot more respect for him.  

I will most certainly not miss him and his ugly crying.  Many people, myself included, has had someone in their family stricken with cancer.  Every time he started crying throughout the season I just rolled my eyes.  He knew his mom was terminal and yet he still chose to go.  I know his mom told him to etc but in the end, it was his choice.  Jeff said he could have been on the next season.  I know his choice resulted in him winning a million dollars... but if it was me, no way would I think a million dollars would have been worth not being able to spend the last 45 or so days with a dying mom.

I was surprised at how well Hannah advocated for herself.  Mostly because I was surprised that she took full credit for ousting every single person on the jury.  Maybe one or two was because she "went rogue", but most of those votes she simply went along with everyone.

I don't think Ken advocated as well for himself.  He was loyal and he was the provider.  He should have stressed more that he was at the bottom from the start and managed to survive and form shifting alliances.  Then when he really needed it, he won the last few important immunities.  His game was almost like Mike Holloway's, except Mike's moves were more obvious.

Looking forward to the next season!

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, violet and green said:

Adam. Honestly, I just don't trust anyone who does that big open mouthed, exposed jaw, raw, bald-faced crying he did all freaking season, mostly to the camera people - especially anyone who does it repetitively

I'm so with you.  Just as actors are taught to "make the cry face," to physically activate tears, the rest of us learn, while we're still children that if we literally keep a stiff upper lip we're less likely to break down.  When Adam was stuck under the fence in the sand during the home visit challenge and kept bellowing like an animal, I realized he's just self-indulgent that way and has learned that it gets sympathy.  I'm the youngest in my family, too, but they wouldn't have tolerated that after a certain age.

I loved the season but the ending just didn't set well with me.  Adam who wasn't going to use him mother's illness, did.  Ken, who was going to prove you could play a game of loyalty and win,  gave up that whole plan at the last minute.  Eh.

I really don't go for the grand philosophy of the Evolving Game as much as Jeff (and Zeke) want me to.  When someone like Will keeps repeating that you have to make Big Moves and change the course of the game somehow to win, then it's not really anything that new.  If the jury should decide to reward the person they liked best,  a person who had worked hardest and kept promises (like Ken had been doing)) then why not?  It's not their job to keep the game exciting for Jeff Probst's ratings. Otherwise you end up with a final council with people like Hannah and Adam frantically trying to turn their goof-ups and random pieces of luck into great strategy and that distasteful last minute "Queen for a Day," game of who has the saddest story.

[Runningwild]

Funnily enough, Adam reminded me of Adam (Craig Lawlor) from As The World Turns. 

[Haleth]

In the past the final epi was always bloated by crap like the walk of fallen players, but this one was way too rushed.  I was disappointed the show went from Jay's TC right to the next IC.  I wanted to hear everyone's reaction to David making the fake idol.  It was brilliant of him to hide it rather than trying to pass it off for himself.  Jay was a surprisingly good sport about it.  (I can't wait to see his Ponderosa vid.)  

My fantasy final included Jay, David, and Adam with Jay probably winning.  I'm ok with Adam though.  He played a good game, maybe not always on the right side, but he never quit playing for himself.  

Was Adam's clean sweep the first (and only) since Earl's?  I wish Jeff had asked the jury if they would have voted for David over Adam.

After this breath of fresh air season with people who played hard but not maliciously, next season with all the schemers and connivers is going to be rough.

7 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

(Speaking of, how about an All-Idiots season? We get to vote in the people we think are the biggest dumbasses to ever play.)

Heh.  That would be fun!

[Sarahsmile416]

3 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

Well well it was a great season I didn't  think it was sympathy votes Adam did play better than the other 2. Congrats Adam. 10-0-0 wow!

Fake idol was awesome lol! Legacy adv was useless and mostly all the HII were useless.

I knew Ken wouldn't win coz 1. My bet never won in survivor 2. He lacked social strategy 3. I wouldn't voted David, I would have let it to a fire making tie breaker. 4. He had a hard time explaining unlike the other players and he should have apologized to David for voting him out or have explained more why he voted him (bec. He won't win against him).

 

ps. thanks dkb

MMV, but I actually thought Ken had the perfect answer about why he voted David out and thought he answered the question succinctly.  I thought Jess liked the answer too and until Adam told his story at the end thought Ken was a shoo-in for her vote at the very least. 

I don't think it would have mattered ultimately who Ken sat next to between Adam and David because I think he would have lost, but I do actually think he stood a better chance against Adam who made a lot of blunders in the game than David who everyone pretty much thought played the best game. 

That being said, if Jay had been there he would have beaten every possible iteration because almost everyone on the jury liked him.  

[ghoulina]

Congrats to Adam! There were actually SEVERAL people I would have been find with winning in the end; this was such a likeable cast for me. So I wasn't mega pulling for any one person, but Adam really grew on me over the course of the season and I was happy to see him win. 

I was a bit surprised it was a complete blow out. I actually thought that Hannah made some really valid points at FTC. She DID have a major hand in a lot of the moves that were made, it wasn't all Adam. I guess she must have flipped around too much for the jury's taste? And I thought maybe a few people would respect Ken's final move of voting out David - which SHOCKED me - but I guess not. You never know what the jury is going to base their vote on. That's why I love this show!

Although, one has to wonder if Adam's reveal about his mother had anything to do with it. I can't begrudge him for finally saying something. He was emotionally spent and it was just waiting to come out. But I have to wonder what the votes would have been without that. You can't deny that a story like that will really tug on someone's heart strings. 

I was actually hoping for F3 of David, Adam, and Jay. I thought that would have been just delicious! I thought that so many of these players played really good games in their own right. There was so much growth this season, and I'd be happy seeing a lot of these players return at some point. 

I didn't think he was going to win, but I was glad Ken made it to the end so I could get more of his soulful eyes and musings about being "old school". I'm actually a lot like Ken in that way, rigid about things. But it doesn't necessarily go well with the game of Survivor. 

I had many more thoughts last night, but I seem to have forgotten them all. This was a great season. I really hope whatever casting formula they used, they stick with it next time they do an all new cast. 

[gator12]

2 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I was actually hoping for F3 of David, Adam, and Jay. I thought that would have been just delicious! I thought that so many of these players played really good games in their own right. There was so much growth this season, and I'd be happy seeing a lot of these players return at some point. 

That would have been the better final three and would have been glad if any of them won.

I'm very happy that Adam won!

[waving feather]

8 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I really don't go for the grand philosophy of the Evolving Game as much as Jeff (and Zeke) want me to.  When someone like Will keeps repeating that you have to make Big Moves and change the course of the game somehow to win, then it's not really anything that new.  If the jury should decide to reward the person they liked best,  a person who had worked hardest and kept promises (like Ken had been doing)) then why not?  It's not their job to keep the game exciting for Jeff Probst's ratings. Otherwise you end up with a final council with people like Hannah and Adam frantically trying to turn their goof-ups and random pieces of luck into great strategy and that distasteful last minute "Queen for a Day," game of who has the saddest story.

Yeah, I am not a fan of this new way to play the game that young survivor nerds like Zeke, Adam and Will keep going on about. I liked a lot of the cast this season, but rolled my eyes whenever they talk about "trust clusters" or artificially making big moves. All that shows to me is they are immature in how they view this game. If your game (strategically and socially) is good enough, it will speak for itself, like Kim Spradlin or Parvati. They made quite a few big moves throughout their games but I never felt that they were making them to get a resume. 

If we are comparing who is more strategically sound between Hannah and Adam, Hannah all the way baby. I've not been her biggest fan all season long but I thought she was able to adapt to new alliances much better than Adam. She was the one who made the connections with David and Ken and brought Adam into the fold to align with them. He followed her lead numerous times. She was the one who reigned in him during the first vote after the merge, when he was running around crazy, going to different alliances. I like Adam as a person, but his game sucked. So happy for him his dream came true, but I don't think he played a good game.

Hope to see Jay and David in future seasons. What I respected about David is that he may be a survivor nerd but he is not the "new school" survivor nerds like Zeke, Adam and Will. He built strong alliances and did what was necessary and not more.

It hurt to see Jay get voted out, but man what an exit! He brought joy to the show even to the bitter end. Is that the friendliest exit we've seen or what? He literally shook everyone's hand and hugged people. "Go ahead, Jeffery. Snuff my torch." was the line of the episode. :-)

Good season; I liked almost every castaway. That never happens. But disappointing ending.