Joy and Austin: This One Time At Family Camp

[ginger90]

1 hour ago, Lady Whistleup said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/COgQz73JGli/

They went hiking. Where's Evy?

I’m guessing with Austin’s parents. They hiked minutes away from the camp.

[Tigregirl]

Nice to see Joy hiking in pants, not a skirt.  Giddy really seems like the happiest little guy.  Such big smiles.

[Readalot]

Joy please remove that picture of Evy in the sink. Please. 

[Lady Whistleup]

19 minutes ago, Readalot said:

Joy please remove that picture of Evy in the sink. Please. 

This is tricky but ...

I firmly believe that the rest of the Duggar siblings should not have to pay or alter their lives for their sick, depraved brother. If Joy is comfortable enough with the female body to now wear pants and to bathe Evy naked, Josh's arrest should not change that.

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, Lady Whistleup said:

This is tricky but ...

I firmly believe that the rest of the Duggar siblings should not have to pay or alter their lives for their sick, depraved brother. If Joy is comfortable enough with the female body to now wear pants and to bathe Evy naked, Josh's arrest should not change that.

It’s not about that, though. It’s about the many predators out there who can view this baby. Joy is sharing these private pictures with literally millions of complete strangers. It would be different if she shared them with only close friends and family.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Cinnabon

[beckie]

Is there any way that maybe Joy wasn't told about what is going on with Josh? I think its possible. 

[emmawoodhouse]

8 minutes ago, beckie said:

Is there any way that maybe Joy wasn't told about what is going on with Josh? I think its possible. 

Nah. She probably went hiking today to get away from all the noise. 

[Ohiopirate02]

8 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Nah. She probably went hiking today to get away from all the noise. 

Would JB ask Austin to distract Joy so she was not able to Zoom in on the bail hearing?  I could see him wanting to keep as many of his kids in the dark as possible.  This is a tricky situation here because Joy and any of her sisters wanting to stay away from potential triggers is something I support.  I can also see the menfolk in the family keeping information away from Joy and Jessa and the rest of the J kids in order to paint Josh in a better light.  

[Zella]

5 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Would JB ask Austin to distract Joy so she was not able to Zoom in on the bail hearing?  I could see him wanting to keep as many of his kids in the dark as possible.  This is a tricky situation here because Joy and any of her sisters wanting to stay away from potential triggers is something I support.  I can also see the menfolk in the family keeping information away from Joy and Jessa and the rest of the J kids in order to paint Josh in a better light.  

I suspect that they may not have realized how graphic some of the testimony would get yesterday. So, I am glad the ones who wanted to participate were able to, but I hope that they weren't blindsided by some of those reveals or at least had someone who was able to be there with them while they were listening. 

But in respect to Joy, if she already didn't want to participate without knowing how detailed it was going to be, I can't blame her. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Zella

[GeeGolly]

I'm thinking most of the siblings, including Joy, are looking at this like a Josh thing. They were kind of raised to compartmentalize their feelings. I wouldn't be surprised if none of them connect this to what happened years ago.

[BitterApple]

21 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm thinking most of the siblings, including Joy, are looking at this like a Josh thing. They were kind of raised to compartmentalize their feelings. I wouldn't be surprised if none of them connect this to what happened years ago.

I agree. I honestly don't think they're any more horrified over this than they were over Josh cheating with a stripper. Jessa even categorized porn and CSA as being equally sinful in her statement. Obviously with 19 kids plus spouses, there will be shades of gray, but for the bulk of them I don't think they truly grasp how horrific this is. 

[Tikichick]

40 minutes ago, Zella said:

I suspect that they may not have realized how graphic some of the testimony would get yesterday. So, I am glad the ones who wanted to participate were able to, but I hope that they weren't blindsided by some of those reveals or at least had someone who was able to be there with them while they were listening. 

But in retrospect to Joy, if she already didn't want to participate without knowing how detailed it was going to be, I can't blame her. 

Joy, and all of the siblings for that matter, are entitled to react how they want.   Hopefully that doesn't include willfully ignoring the reality and thinking it's no big deal.

Since so many are of the opinion that Austin is an overbearing control freak with a cruel streak, does it seem likely he'd take orders from JB to deliberately keep the details about Josh from Joy?   I personally don't see Austin as someone likely to take orders from anyone willingly.

[GeeGolly]

25 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I agree. I honestly don't think they're any more horrified over this than they were over Josh cheating with a stripper. Jessa even categorized porn and CSA as being equally sinful in her statement. Obviously with 19 kids plus spouses, there will be shades of gray, but for the bulk of them I don't think they truly grasp how horrific this is. 

I'm not sure Jessa thinks this scandal is less egregious. I'm just saying she may see this as another time Josh fucked up and not necessarily connect it to the molestations.

[emmawoodhouse]

Sorry to use WOACB, but she posted Joy's statements side by side. Interesting edit.

https://www.instagram.com/p/COontb4M6aS/?igshid=xq9nau2izu0w

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Sorry to use WOACB, but she posted Joy's statements side by side. Interesting edit.

https://www.instagram.com/p/COontb4M6aS/?igshid=xq9nau2izu0w

Maybe Fancy Shark Lawyer or a PR crisis person warned them they may not like the truths that come out in federal court when/if this goes to trial? 

[Tuxcat]

10 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Sorry to use WOACB, but she posted Joy's statements side by side. Interesting edit.

https://www.instagram.com/p/COontb4M6aS/?igshid=xq9nau2izu0w

To be fair, I would have removed "through the federal court system" too. It sounds better to end with light. 😂

And thank you for apologizing for WOACB, lol. She's irking me lately.

[Lady Whistleup]

I like Joy's statement. She acknowledges the children hurt in these types of cases. 

[Heathen]

On 5/5/2021 at 5:29 PM, Lady Whistleup said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/COgQz73JGli/

They went hiking. Where's Evy?

Good grief, did you see the kid on that nose?! 

I'm glad Joy has active, non-Duggarlike hobbies. It's something, anyway. 

[BitterApple]

I don't have anything against WOACB. I take her with a grain of salt, but she can be entertaining.

I liked Joy's statement, especially that she kept the focus on the children rather than stepping up on the Christian soapbox like Jessa did. Interesting that she removed the part about the courts though. That's got Boob's grimy paws all over it. 

[Lady Whistleup]

4 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I don't have anything against WOACB. I take her with a grain of salt, but she can be entertaining.

I liked Joy's statement, especially that she kept the focus on the children rather than stepping up on the Christian soapbox like Jessa did. Interesting that she removed the part about the courts though. That's got Boob's grimy paws all over it. 

I think lawyers might have told her to remove the statement especially if they are trying to cop a plea.

[farmgal4]

On 5/5/2021 at 11:23 PM, beckie said:

Is there any way that maybe Joy wasn't told about what is going on with Josh? I think its possible. 

She knows.  She and Austin posted a statement, and they know.

8 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I think lawyers might have told her to remove the statement especially if they are trying to cop a plea.

The statement is in her Instagram story.

[FizzyPuff]

If you don’t have Instagram this is what was posted:

[madpsych78]

So, would it be fair to assume that the statement on the left is what they really want to say?

[Cinnabon]

No way they actually wrote that themselves.

[emmawoodhouse]

2 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

So, would it be fair to assume that the statement on the left is what they really want to say?

It flashed me back to Smuggar's "apology" letter after Ashley Madison. I think there were five versions before he quit. 😂

[Zella]

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

No way they actually wrote that themselves.

I doubt any of them but Jessa wrote the messages they posted, but I still find it interesting what each one still included or signed off on including. Joy's message definitely acknowledges that children were harmed in a way that Jessa and her parents didn't, and I will give her kudos for that. 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Zella

[BigBingerBro]

[GeeGolly]

Joy looks a little like Jackson in the first picture.

[Tikichick]

19 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

No way they actually wrote that themselves.

Doesn't feel like that to me, either.   Although I do appreciate that they at the very least signed off on the recognition that children were harmed and they are victims. 

[cereality]

Moving from the Jill thread --

@LadyWhistleup said -- "I've seen Joy make solo trips to Carlin's. My GUESS is that Joy likes Carlin because Carlin is a way Joy can get away from the extremely rigid, no-fun life at home. At Carlin's Joy can probably enjoy a latte at Starbucks, watch some movies, MAYBE even sip some wine. 

Joy said something after one trip to visit Carlin: that it was so nice just to get away. I thought that was a weird comment for someone who claims that she and her husband are living the blissfully purposeful, Jesus-filled life: why are you so eager to get away for a weekend?"

 

I think this is totally accurate. We've seen most of the trips be Joy visiting Carlin & Evan or C&E visiting Joy and mostly hanging out with Joy as I assume Austin is at work or whatever. I imagine Joy & Carlin got to know each other thru the mandatory childhood fellowshipping and have probably deepened their friendship now via social media etc. Like I don't recall them having a huge presence at each other's weddings etc so IDK how much it's true that they were childhood besties. I wouldn't be surprised if it is JOY that was reaching to Carlin more at first after marriage to deepen the friendship and well Carlin's gonna be all over that because she loves being popular. 

While they are very different with Joy being more of a hiking, biking, getting herself dirty laying tile floor in a flip house vs. Carlin is more getting her hair done, mani/pedi, trying to attain the trappings of an upper middle class suburban mom with the best iphones, newest roomba etc., ultimately I imagine Joy just finds Carlin fun. As loud and annoying at C&E are, they act like normal albeit obnoxious 23 and 26 year olds which likely makes Joy feel young and fun too. They're constantly going on trips and on said trips will drive by some amusement park and they just HAVE to stop and take a ride; or they crave ice cream at 10 pm so off they go on an ice cream run.

I have a feeling Joy and Austin's house doesn't have that type of spontaneity and fun. Austin seems like he'd be more like -- uh we're not stopping at some road side attraction, we'll lose 30 min on this road trip; or be like you want to run out to get us ice cream at 10 pm -- you're a mother, you'll just leave your kids with me and go out as if you have no responsibilities, just have whatever ice cream is in the freezer or get some at the grocery store tomorrow?? Whereas at Carlin's -- Joy is likely in on the Sbux or ice cream runs, we've seen her cheering along as C&E turn on some dumb song and sing or dance with each other or their kid -- for all we know she also dances along just not with the camera on so as not to hear from Austin when she gets home.

[ozziemom]

We may have missed Joy and Carlin at each other’s weddings due to TLC and UP not filming people not on their network. I think it is a sign of their closeness that Carlin was there for Joy almost immediately when she lost her baby. So I think this is a real friendship, not just sweet friends like Jessa refers to.

[BitterApple]

Do you guys remember that old Lifetime movie Death Of A Cheerleader? Joy and Carlin's dynamic reminds me a bit of that, minus the jealousy and murder. Carlin's the popular, glamorous Queen Bee and Joy has an almost puppy-like adoration for her and what she represents. 

I think Joy is beautiful, but she's not naturally outgoing or flirty. I think her brothers, and even Austin, treat her as "one of the guys." Maybe friendship with Carlin gives her the girly-girl bonding experience she never got to have during her teenage years.

 

[Lady Whistleup]

19 minutes ago, cereality said:

I have a feeling Joy and Austin's house doesn't have that type of spontaneity and fun. Austin seems like he'd be more like -- uh we're not stopping at some road side attraction, we'll lose 30 min on this road trip; or be like you want to run out to get us ice cream at 10 pm -- you're a mother, you'll just leave your kids with me and go out as if you have no responsibilities, just have whatever ice cream is in the freezer or get some at the grocery store tomorrow?? Whereas at Carlin's -- Joy is likely in on the Sbux or ice cream runs, we've seen her cheering along as C&E turn on some dumb song and sing or dance with each other or their kid -- for all we know she also dances along just not with the camera on so as not to hear from Austin when she gets home.

I;ve also seen Joy go along on some of Austin's hunting trips and while she says she's enthusiastic she always looks tired and ready to break free. 

I think Joy is actually prettier than Carlin but Joy has no idea how to present herself. The baggy clothes, crocs/flip flops, hideous magnetic eyelashes, heavy bangs, all give her a careworn look.

[Tikichick]

4 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I;ve also seen Joy go along on some of Austin's hunting trips and while she says she's enthusiastic she always looks tired and ready to break free. 

I think Joy is actually prettier than Carlin but Joy has no idea how to present herself. The baggy clothes, crocs/flip flops, hideous magnetic eyelashes, heavy bangs, all give her a careworn look.

I think Joy is attractive enough to carry off a fresh faced look with no make up, maybe a dash of gloss on her lips, a cute fitting simple T and pair of jeans, nicely trimmed and washed hair either left straight or in a pony and she will probably look quite pretty in a gal next door way.

While Carlin is an attractive woman I think she would appear a bit plain next to Jill if styled and made up the same way.

[GeeGolly]

Joy and Carlin seem to be one of the few real Duggar/Bates friendships. Theirs and a few of the boys.  Shortly after Scandal 1 & 2 were in the news, Carlin and Joy spent time in Danger America with Jill. They were in each other's weddings and as was mentioned, Carlin was there for Joy after losing Annabell.

I think their friendship works because they are different and they're not competing with each other.

It seems the other Duggar and Bates female 'relationships' have flipped. Back in the day the Duggar sisters seemed a tad snobbish toward the Bates. Now I think its the other way around.

[Tikichick]

17 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Joy and Carlin seem to be one of the few real Duggar/Bates friendships. Theirs and a few of the boys.  Shortly after Scandal 1 & 2 were in the news, Carlin and Joy spent time in Danger America with Jill. They were in each other's weddings and as was mentioned, Carlin was there for Joy after losing Annabell.

I think their friendship works because they are different and they're not competing with each other.

It seems the other Duggar and Bates female 'relationships' have flipped. Back in the day the Duggar sisters seemed a tad snobbish toward the Bates. Now I think its the other way around.

In the way back time machine was it the Bates girls and mom who met up with Michelle and the girls for an outing where they went swimming and the Bates girls wore early 20th century swimming costumes?

[GeeGolly]

Just now, Tikichick said:

In the way back time machine was it the Bates girls and mom who met up with Michelle and the girls for an outing where they went swimming and the Bates girls wore early 20th century swimming costumes?

Yes, as did some of the Duggar girls, at least the ones who weren't wearing denim skirts.

Besides Big Sandy, it seems the Duggars and Bates met up a couple of times a year, going way back to when Josh and Zach were fairly young.

[Tikichick]

10 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Yes, as did some of the Duggar girls, at least the ones who weren't wearing denim skirts.

Besides Big Sandy, it seems the Duggars and Bates met up a couple of times a year, going way back to when Josh and Zach were fairly young.

Even at that point that's a sizeable amount of children for two families.

[Cherry Cola]

On 5/5/2021 at 10:32 PM, Tigregirl said:

Nice to see Joy hiking in pants, not a skirt.  Giddy really seems like the happiest little guy.  Such big smiles.

I guess I dont pay much attention to their clothes. Do the women not usually wear pants in this family? Is it always skirts?

[doodlebug]

1 minute ago, Cherry Cola said:

I guess I dont pay much attention to their clothes. Do the women not usually wear pants in this family? Is it always skirts?

In general, yes, at least while they're living at home.  No matter what they're doing, the girls wear skirts because it is sinful for women to dress like men.  They also must keep their knees and shoulders covered at all times because, otherwise, they might entice men into sinning.

Meechelle famously was filmed discussing modesty while pulling Josie's sweater up over her shoulders so no one could see her upper arms in a sleeveless dress.  Josie was something like 4 years old at the time.

Meechelle was also shown water skiing on the show in a dress.  Her knees were exposed and she apparently insisted they be blurred on the show.

The Duggar daughters have been shown doing heavy construction, playing in the snow, going swimming. running 5 K's, all in skirts that were just inches above their ankles.

I believe the first sight of a Duggar daughter in pants was Jinger when she was leaving for her honeymoon.

[Cinnabon]

4 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Do you guys remember that old Lifetime movie Death Of A Cheerleader? Joy and Carlin's dynamic reminds me a bit of that, minus the jealousy and murder. Carlin's the popular, glamorous Queen Bee and Joy has an almost puppy-like adoration for her and what she represents. 

I think Joy is beautiful, but she's not naturally outgoing or flirty. I think her brothers, and even Austin, treat her as "one of the guys." Maybe friendship with Carlin gives her the girly-girl bonding experience she never got to have during her teenage years.

 

YES! And they remade that movie a couple years ago, too 🙂.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Cinnabon

[crazy8s]

I will say Joy probably sort of makes solo trips to visit Carlin - Either a Duggar brother flies her there or whatever Bates boy with a pilot's license flies her there and back. Technicality I know, but have we ever seen Joy putting the kids in the car and driving solo to visit Carlin? what if she had to stop for gas, had a flat tire, needed a tow...... not happening in duggarville.

On the hunting trips - Joy seems happy when she is with Austin and the Howlers all on a trip. Not so much when it is a trip to the Jeff Danker/Buckventures locations. (they are on the Buckventure website posing with "Austin's successful kill on the Ranch",  I think Oklahoma but I don't remember in the moment.

Edited May 10, 2021 by crazy8s

[dargosmydaddy]

5 hours ago, Tikichick said:

Even at that point that's a sizeable amount of children for two families.

It's insane to think that both families were about a third of the size they'd end up at when this picture was taken...

[Lady Whistleup]

4 hours ago, crazy8s said:

I will say Joy probably sort of makes solo trips to visit Carlin - Either a Duggar brother flies her there or whatever Bates boy with a pilot's license flies her there and back. Technicality I know, but have we ever seen Joy putting the kids in the car and driving solo to visit Carlin? what if she had to stop for gas, had a flat tire, needed a tow...... not happening in duggarville.

On the hunting trips - Joy seems happy when she is with Austin and the Howlers all on a trip. Not so much when it is a trip to the Jeff Danker/Buckventures locations. (they are on the Buckventure website posing with "Austin's successful kill on the Ranch",  I think Oklahoma but I don't remember in the moment.

We've seen her at the airport flying commercial to visit Carlin.

[BigBingerBro]

[queenanne]

On 5/10/2021 at 1:10 PM, doodlebug said:

In general, yes, at least while they're living at home.  No matter what they're doing, the girls wear skirts because it is sinful for women to dress like men.  They also must keep their knees and shoulders covered at all times because, otherwise, they might entice men into sinning.

Meechelle famously was filmed discussing modesty while pulling Josie's sweater up over her shoulders so no one could see her upper arms in a sleeveless dress.  Josie was something like 4 years old at the time.

Meechelle was also shown water skiing on the show in a dress.  Her knees were exposed and she apparently insisted they be blurred on the show.

The Duggar daughters have been shown doing heavy construction, playing in the snow, going swimming. running 5 K's, all in skirts that were just inches above their ankles.

I believe the first sight of a Duggar daughter in pants was Jinger when she was leaving for her honeymoon.

That's one of the things I like about Austin. He may say he prefers Joy in dresses, but she doesn't seem to have to wear them while she's tooling around on a bike or similar active pursuits; which is a distinct improvement over the earlier insanity, lol.

[Insert Username]

I may be in the minority, but I like Austin and don't think he is cruel and controlling. I think he has no use for most of the Duggars and their laziness and just does not like being on TV, but sees it as way to make money. He has a dry sarcasm that I find funny and probably goes over most of his in-law's heads. He and Joy seem like they genuinely like one another. He also seems to be a loving, affectionate, and involved dad. He is like so many of the simple, hardworking blue-collar men I know. I think they will be okay if the show ends - they have his construction business and the family camp and will live just fine outside of the limelight.

I will never understand why JB didn't get all of his kids (boys) into the trades. They could have had a good family construction business going.

[Ohiopirate02]

Just now, Insert Username said:

I will never understand why JB didn't get all of his kids (boys) into the trades. They could have had a good family construction business going.

If any Duggar boy actually works in a trade, then he is no longer beholden to the Bank of Boob and could potentially strike out on his own.  JB will not allow that.  He tried it with Josh and look what happened.  He would rather give each son a "job" and just enough money to meet his and his family's needs without them getting any ideas.

[JoanArc]

8 minutes ago, Insert Username said:

I will never understand why JB didn't get all of his kids (boys) into the trades. They could have had a good family construction business going.

 They already have a bad family construction business going! 

[Tikichick]

1 hour ago, Insert Username said:

I may be in the minority, but I like Austin and don't think he is cruel and controlling. I think he has no use for most of the Duggars and their laziness and just does not like being on TV, but sees it as way to make money. He has a dry sarcasm that I find funny and probably goes over most of his in-law's heads. He and Joy seem like they genuinely like one another. He also seems to be a loving, affectionate, and involved dad. He is like so many of the simple, hardworking blue-collar men I know. I think they will be okay if the show ends - they have his construction business and the family camp and will live just fine outside of the limelight.

I will never understand why JB didn't get all of his kids (boys) into the trades. They could have had a good family construction business going.

For the most part I agree.   I wouldn't doubt that Austin has some seriously less than optimal personality traits and beliefs, but I don't think he's cruel and controlling with Joy and the kids.   I think he does not cope well in the TTH chaos and lack of hygiene, much in the same way I suspect Lauren and possibly Abbie struggle with the same.

 I can also see where he won't sit still for JB's controlling BS and perpetual headship, which actually is a huge positive in my book.   I think JB kind of got conned here because I think JB was deceived by Austin having been an obedient son to his father.   I  don't think JB understood that Austin's father, nor Austin, were looking for Austin to remain perpetually under his father's control -- or had any expectation of yielding to JB after marriage.  I think Austin was raised with the idea his parents raised him up and then it was time to be a man and have his own family.    

One of the most encouraging signs for me about Austin has been his demeanor around Gideon, and Gideon's undeniable happiness to be with Austin.  I haven't seen him as much around their daughter, but anything I've seen has also shown him being very loving with her as well.   It goes a long way with me that a man in that belief system has repeatedly been so publicly vocal voicing to his son that he loves him and openly kissing him.