S01.E05: The Game Plan

[random chance]

41 minutes ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

So, did they just up and kill William without any fanfare? 

WHAT??? I thought Randall was just packing up in his hotel room. I have got to stop multitasking.

38 minutes ago, pianogirl73 said:

I think that was supposed to be when Jack died because they showed the hat from the his great great? grandfather. 

Oh! I hope so, that's better.

36 minutes ago, BuckeyeLou said:

I am getting annoyed with Toby too...he's so pushy.

He's getting to be a real pest.

34 minutes ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

Are we supposed to find it sweet and romantic that Toby never just drops the subject when Kate says "no" to something?

That is the question I most want answered: how do the writers imagine this looks to me? I need to know whether the writers are clever or delusional.

[Enigma X]

I knew Jack was gone but it still hurts now that it is confirmed.

I like Kevin and his character is getting more interesting. 

I hope William is not dead. I was suspicious of his motives at first but now know he is a good guy. 

Randall and Beth are the best.

We all know what I think of Toby.

[Blackie]

Didn't mind the start of this episode but hated the end of it.  I was wondering if it was the series finale lol.  Seriously too smaltzy for me, Kevin with his painting, blech. Maybe I just hate football, and had a dad that watched all sports.

[Laurie4H]

In real life being late and feeling sick would most likely be hormonal, stress, early menopause, but in TV land it's usually foreshadowing something serious.  Hopefully they aren't heading to Beth getting a cancer diagnosis. 

Edited October 26, 2016 by Laurie4H

[tribeca]

When Kevin first showed his painting I thought it looked like a very confusing and messed up life. 

[Tiger]

TOBY IS A STUPID DELLUSIONAL MOTHERFUCKER WHO NEEDS TO SHUT THE FUCK UP.  HATE HATE HATE.

Anyway, I hope we see more of Wynn Everett.  She was fantastic as Whitney Frost on Agent Carter last year.  

Im really glad that Jack is dead instead of him being a deadbeat alcoholic or an alzheimer's patient.

Beth was my spirit animal tonight.  However, before Beth announced she was late, the way SKB and SKW were playing the scene was as if Randall was having a manic episode.  After what Beth seemed to stop herself from telling William something in the pilot, and then the thing with the pills and Randall's behavior in the hotel room, I still think there's some sort of mental issue there.

Hartley and Jones were amazing together.  I really hope they didnt brush over William's death like that.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Tiger

[LeafontheWind]

I am not usually one to talk back to my television, but I definitely let out a defeated little "No!" when that urn came off the mantle. I figured it was coming, but that didn't make it hurt any less. Maybe I am just having residue TWD feels, but this was the first episode to make me actually cry instead of just get a little misty eyed.

[Pallas]

In Kevin's soliloquy (and you were off-book there, Kevin, so relax) he says the word "future" the moment we flash to Randall in the daughter's room, packing up William's clothes and hat. That was just after we'd flash-backed to see Kevin's great-grandfather the immigrant open his suitcase in his tenement, revealing that he'd brought his own father's hat with him to the new world.

[izabella]

Toby needed to step back, but Kate could have said no, and then not changed her mind and agreed to go to Toby's.  He shouldn't have followed her back to her place, but she could also have just been honest from the start and told him it had personal meaning to her to be alone while watching because of her dead dad. Jeez, they both bring the drama.

I think we are supposed to like Toby.  Kate said at the start of the episode that she had made him breakfast (or whatever that stuff was) to thank him for doing so many nice things for her.  The show is using Toby as a plot device to give us pieces of insight into Kate.  So they pick and choose how they want him to be each episode to force revelations about Kate.

Kevin finally won me over this episode.  I really like his scenes with the family tonight.  I also loved Beth and Randall waiting for the test results.  They rock as a couple.

I'm surprised we haven't seen Kate and Kevin talking or texting or going through K&K withdrawal.

[Court]

I'm officially over Toby. I liked him initially. He just barreled right over Kate's feelings and her request that he respect her about her Sunday night. He knew this, guilted her into changing her mind and then invited  a friend over. He needs to learn boundaries and not make it about himself.

[Amethyst]

15 minutes ago, tribeca said:

When Kevin first showed his painting I thought it looked like a very confusing and messed up life. 

I thought of a Jackson Pollock painting and I wondered if that was leading to something else, like Kevin being really good at painting or something along those lines.

[MsJamieDornan]

38 minutes ago, random chance said:

WHAT??? I thought Randall was just packing up in his hotel room. I have got to stop multitasking.

Yes, me too ! They better not just brush over it.

I'm not sure what I thought of Kevin tonight. Sometimes they make him just too bumbling. He and William were great though.

Kind of rude of Randall to just ask Kevin when he's leaving. He was only there a few days.

[Court]

21 minutes ago, izabella said:

Toby needed to step back, but Kate could have said no, and then not changed her mind and agreed to go to Toby's.  He shouldn't have followed her back to her place, but she could also have just been honest from the start and told him it had personal meaning to her to be alone while watching because of her dead dad. Jeez, they both bring the drama.

I think we are supposed to like Toby.  Kate said at the start of the episode that she had made him breakfast (or whatever that stuff was) to thank him for doing so many nice things for her.  The show is using Toby as a plot device to give us pieces of insight into Kate.  So they pick and choose how they want him to be each episode to force revelations about Kate.

Kevin finally won me over this episode.  I really like his scenes with the family tonight.  I also loved Beth and Randall waiting for the test results.  They rock as a couple.

I'm surprised we haven't seen Kate and Kevin talking or texting or going through K&K withdrawal.

She said no more than once and said it was her thing. She asked him to respect that and it was important to her. He then continued to press the issue knowing she'd feel guilty and change her mind. Also, how rude of him to pass a note during a meeting along a row of people. It doesn't matter why or even what is. She said no. Knowing she wanted to watch alone, he invites a friend over, stands in front of the tv and pauses it. It's disrespectful and he is dismissive of her feelings.

Imagine if she dumps him, I can easily see him stalking her. This is coming from someone who actually liked Toby initially. I even defended him.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Court

[Lady Calypso]

I really am trying to like Toby, but the man has no boundaries and apparently couldn't listen to one simple request from Kate. She said she wanted alone time. And what does he do? He pesters her and keeps asking until she gives in. Then he invites a friend over without telling her beforehand. And then he pauses in the middle of the game. And then he goes over to Kate's to NOT apologize. I know his character is supposed to be an insight to Kate, but this episode was really just ridiculous and made him look like an ass. 

I knew the Jack-is-dead reveal was coming, but it definitely made me cry out loud for the first time with this show. It definitely packed a punch. That being said, as disappointed as I am that we won't see Milo in the present day timeline, I am also relieved that they let it happen. I was worried about a cop-out that wouldn't make sense, or worse, that would have made one or more of the characters look bad. Now, Rebecca/Miguel have a reason to be together without making either of them look like awful people, and it also doesn't make Jack look awful. I'm going to assume that he didn't die by alcoholism, as all the kids do drink still, and I'd think that they would try not to, even after 10 years of their dad being gone. Although....thinking about how Toby pressured Kate into drinking in the second episode, I don't want that reflecting badly on him either. 

I was cringing at some of Kevin's scenes, but his scene with William, and then his scene with the girls at the end, really made up for it. I'm still not feeling his theatre storyline and I hope it's more of a story that propels him into gaining more confidence and better self esteem about himself. I'd like for that to be the end result. 

Man, William is somehow just so good for this show. But I do really like him, and it's going to suck when he finally dies (I assume at the end of this season). 

Finding out about Rebecca not wanting kids in the flashback was not surprising in the least. It really brings something to her character, knowing she probably still wasn't all in by the time that she found out that she was pregnant. I'll bet we get a flashback plot of her and Jack finding out about the triplets, and that'll be an emotional story to tell.

18 minutes ago, izabella said:

Toby needed to step back, but Kate could have said no, and then not changed her mind and agreed to go to Toby's.  He shouldn't have followed her back to her place, but she could also have just been honest from the start and told him it had personal meaning to her to be alone while watching because of her dead dad. Jeez, they both bring the drama.

I agree that Kate really could have enforced her "no", but I fear that he might have shown up at her place anyway. He was overstepping his boundaries, even with knowing that she didn't want company. Kate's insecurities definitely shone. I think she went over because she didn't want to be rude and she probably assumed that with just her and Toby, she could possibly get away or even that she could find a new tradition with Toby, but he lied, manipulated, and deceived her. Plus, he didn't seem to believe that she loved football and wanted to watch. 

Also, Kate didn't have to tell Toby about the meaning behind the football game. They're still a new couple and she clearly wasn't ready to divulge that information until she kind of had to. It's not like they've been in a relationship for months. It's only been one month, at best. So, although I agree that I wanted Kate to stand her ground and not go to Toby's, her not telling him about her dead dad is her decision and she owed him no explanation. Really, this is absolutely 90% on Toby. He didn't respect her enough to listen to what she wanted, and he made so many bad decisions. Kate rightfully could have kicked him out of her place when he came over to almost berate her for her behaviour, as if he was stunned that she wasn't happy with them hanging out with his friend and not watching the football game. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

So, any theories on where Kevin has been sleeping at Randall and Beth's?

[hiccup]

When Kevin said that he paints what he thinks the play is about and then I saw the painting, what I saw was confusion.  That he didn't understand the play at all.  So, I was pleasantly surprised at his explanation.

I agree that Toby really needed to let Kate have her alone time.  Alone time is a big thing for me, so that would have absolutely pissed me off and I would have explained why at that moment.  However, both Kate & Toby are very insecure, so I see him not really accepting her alone time and her not explaining why at first as being true to their characters.  They both don't feel comfortable enough, but I hope they get there quickly.

Deep down, I knew that Jack was dead.  (Why else would Rebecca still be wearing the necklace he gave her.)  But, I let articles about this episode sway my thinking, to believing that maybe he was alive in present day, but perhaps incapacitated.  Now I need to know what happened.  Jack is my favorite!  Oh also, I was surprised that Miguel was married with children.  

I love this show and want to watch all the episodes now!  Netflix has ruined regular tv viewing for me...ha!

[cindylu]

27 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

So, any theories on where Kevin has been sleeping at Randall and Beth's?

I have to rewatch the episode because this is all I could think about!

[voiceover]

I watch my Chiefs alone, or only with my immediate family, because we are all psycho in the same way about our teams, and no one else quite gets it.

In fact, I have been known to shut down guys in bars who approach me during the game ("Dude, shut UP! I'm in church now!!").

So I am alllllll in on Kate's ritual.  And for the non-believers out there: Yes, a hat on an urn is not out of the ordinary.

I await the news that some of Jack is sprinkled over Three Rivers.

[Artsda]

Really loved Kevin this episode, the really bad telling the girls everyone will die to his tear inducing speech about the painting. He rocked this episode. That was the first time I teared up at this show, Kevin's voice over on top of finding out for real Jack had died. 

The whole Manny/Au Pair convo was hilarious, I love Kevin & Randall together. Also enjoyed Kevin & William, they had a great vibe together and William was really good at trying to build Kevin's confidence. Almost like a surrogate dad to Kevin too.

Kate having the ashes on her mantle is so fitting, also her being daddy's girl obsessed with football. 

WTH Toby, you don't pause live football. My face looked like Kate's when he did that. 

[bybrandy]

1 hour ago, memememe76 said:

Some interesting tidbits of information. Rebecca has a sister who probably has a ton of kids. So, Rabdall et al have a bunch of cousins. Miguel has at least 2 kids, so we'll probably see them. Would an interracial couple be so accepted back then?

Well, we've only seen Miguel and his wife interact with one other couple.   And we know that couple will go on to adopt a black child so probably aren't raging racists to start with.  So I'm not sure we can really say Miguel and his wife were "so accepted".

Two, I've always thought there was way more prejudice against black/white partnerships than with Hispanic or Asian/ White parings.  But that might be different in different parts of the country.

Three, really, there is nothing new under the sun.   No, seriously, I am a huge genealogy dork and just as a general rule if you ask, "Would people really have...  in x decade" the answer is yes.  There is nothing new under the sun.   Don't believe me.  Pick any census and start reading.   You will find plenty of interracial relationships in those pages, loads of divorce, lots of kids born well before the marriage date of their parents.   Obviously you can't tell how much stigma or not there was in these events from the pages of teh census and what we've all observed in our lifetimes probably indicates that there is less stigma now than there was then in all these cases.   But the fact of the matter is family groupings of all types existed all over this country long before any of us were born.   

[bybrandy]

47 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

So, any theories on where Kevin has been sleeping at Randall and Beth's?

My theory is Kevin is all, "Um, guys, this house is huge...   There has got to be more than three bedrooms" and then he goes off opening doors until he finds a guest room or three that Randall and Beth have forgotten about.   William never did that because he's too polite to go opening closed doors in other peoples houses.   But Kevin?  He's a door opener.

[chocolatine]

Why weren't Kate and Toby sitting next to each other at the weight loss group meeting? Seems like a huge contrivance to have them sit on opposite ends of the room just so he could pass along the note like a middle schooler. As has been said by many of you, Toby's a tool (and I've thought so from the start). A man not respecting my alone time (and the word no in general) would be a deal breaker for me.

I'm glad Jack's dead and not in a vegetative state or suffering from advanced dementia or any other overwrought nonsense. I hope though that Miguel didn't dump his wife the minute Rebecca became a widow. They way he asked Jack in the flashback whether he would still want to be with Rebecca if she refuses to have kids sounded more hopeful than concerned. I have a feeling that if Rebecca and Jack had split up then, Miguel would have walked out on his wife and young children to be with her. I've seen that kind of thing happen a few times in my extended family/circle of friends; men wrecking their families for a chance to be with their "ideal" woman.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

How This Is Us Is Actually Us

If you feel like someone just read your emotional scrapbook to the world, you're not alone.

[MsJamieDornan]

1 hour ago, hiccup said:

 

When Kevin said that he paints what he thinks the play is about and then I saw the painting, what I saw was confusion.  That he didn't understand the play at all.  So, I was pleasantly surprised at his explanation.

 

I was sure he was confused about the whole thing !

[SueB]

1 hour ago, Amethyst said:

I thought of a Jackson Pollock painting and I wondered if that was leading to something else, like Kevin being really good at painting or something along those lines.

Me too!  And honestly, I've seen a Jackson Pollock and joked that any child could do as well.  But Kevin's painting made sense to me when he explained it.  And I actually thought the art was pretty good... even before the "This is Us" motif.  But the motif is a very very wonderful way of looking at life and I think Uncle Kevin pulled his butt out of the fire.  The girls seemed comforted by his tale.

[photo fox]

Randall with his loud, adult, shower sex had me rolling. And he searches Zillow at work! LOL

I agree with everyone who says William's death is in the future. I hope so! I loved his interactions with Kevin, just how easy they were with each other, especially considering the somewhat awkward circumstances.

I knew where they were going as soon as Kate acted all shifty about watching the game with her "dad". Toby is so obnoxious. She needs to slow that relationship down.

I really felt for Rebecca and the idea that even if you see kids in your future, it can be hard to give up the freedom you love. 

Do people really tell their kids exactly when and where they were conceived? And how would they know for sure, unless they were almost never having sex? And was it supposed to be the same superbowl? I guess I tend to make the assumption that committed couples at that time would have been on the pill.

I love this show, but I haven't cried once. I must be dead inside. 

[Dusty]

16 minutes ago, photo fox said:

Do people really tell their kids exactly when and where they were conceived? And how would they know for sure, unless they were almost never having sex? And was it supposed to be the same superbowl? I guess I tend to make the assumption that committed couples at that time would have been on the pill.

I think it's what they like to think since they at the very least got pregnant around that time and they thought it was a neat little story to tell. Or I could see Jack thinking it's a neat story to tell the kids during a game and Rebecca's like "What are you doing?!?!"

I'm glad Jack is dead. It feels so weird for me to say that about a character I like. But it would've really made it difficult to enjoy their early years story if it ended in divorce.  And I'm still side eyeing Miguel even though Jack is dead.  It still feels weird to me. Marrying his best friend's widow. Mainly because in the first episode he was in I got the vibe that he liked her in more than just a friendly way.  I don't know.  It would be different if there wasn't that vibe from him in the beginning. I'm sure he was a great friend to Jack and he did set him straight in that episode. But now it's like he's just lurking in the background waiting for his opening.

[Spencer Hastings]

I've never related to Kate more than I did tonight.  I'm an insecure and chubby girl but do NOT mess with my sports.  If the woman says she has to watch the game alone, then leave her be.  Even if the reason is that she doesn't want to see your annoying face, that's good enough.  I shouted "Oh hell no!" when he paused the game.  And then he caught it up and they missed a touchdown.  I would have jumped out of my skin if that were a baseball game. 

Kevin is better when he's with the rest of the cast.  He played really well off of William, who had better not be dead yet.  Really hope that because he said "future" in his little speech, William has a season or two left. 

Oh, my precious Jack.

Toby: I'd love to meet him someday.

Kate: Okay you can meet him.

Me: Oh good, he's aliv--*spots urn* NO NO NO, MAYBE IT'S A VASE!!  Noooo!!!

I knew that Jack had to be dead and that perhaps he's better off that way as a character...but I still had to pause and catch my breath from weeping.  So many unexpected tears.

[Cardie]

55 minutes ago, photo fox said:

Do people really tell their kids exactly when and where they were conceived?

My dad told me over and over of him and my mom taking a romantic weekend in Cincinnati--when you live in West Virginia, Cincinnati is the nearest destination for the big city night life--and me being the result. After he died, I told my mom the story and all she said was, "I don't think your father knows how to count." This is the man who believed tampons would spoil if not refrigerated, so his understanding of when late is really late may well have been faulty.

I thought from the start that Jack was dead and realize now that Randall would never have established this warm relationship with William for fear of hurting Jack, looking like he was replacing him.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Cardie

[RachelKM]

Did Toby actually have the nerve to ask Kate "Then why did you come?"  when she explained why she left?  SHE SAID NO TWICE YOU ASSHAT!!!! He pressed the issue up to and including a damn craft card he rudely passed down a line of people including the person to whom he was supposed to be listening and  he asks her why she agreed?  And inviting a third party despite the fact that she was already tentatively including him in something she usually did alone and then having the nerve to act shocked that she wasn't comfortable?  Good god.  By the time he paused the game (at your fucking peril in my house), I was already done with him. 

The only thing in this show I adore more than Beth is Beth and Randall. They are wonderful together.  

Kevin and William were my second favorite scene pairing tonight.  Kevin and his nieces were third.  

And in closing, Fuck You Toby.

[femmefan1946]

I think we are supposed to like Toby.  Kate said at the start of the episode that she had made him breakfast (or whatever that stuff was) to thank him for doing so many nice things for her. 

I suspect that if Kevin were still in LA, Toby would not be in her life.

If he were, then it's because Kate has convinced herself that she is lucky to have him. Or anyone.

On the bright side, I do think he really likes her. And the sex is good. As Jon Huertas (Miguel) said in one episode of Castle. "Pancakes are how you say thank you for last night". (Or burnt toast chips with hemp seed I guess.)

I do like William (and the actor) but geez he really is written a little too magic negro. Even given his background as a poet and activist. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/PlayingWith/MagicalNegro

[biakbiak]

One thing I thought was interesting is that the family dynamics of Kate and Kevin being super close are so well known that Kevin even mentioned it explain to his young nieces how major this secret was to him.

Edited October 26, 2016 by biakbiak

[hiccup]

1 hour ago, photo fox said:

I love this show, but I haven't cried once. I must be dead inside. 

I haven't cried either!  I watched Legally Blonde 2 a few weeks ago and cried at that, but not at this!!  WTH?!

I think it's just the expectation that I'm supposed to cry and my subconscious fights it.  :)  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

That Was Us:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Toby needs to take a fucking seat. No matter how much you like someone or love someone, that doesn't mean you get to demand their attention and presence every second of the day. People are allowed to say no to you for ANY reason and people are allowed to do things without you. I almost wish that Kate didn't have this big emotional story about watching football with her dad so that her explanation could have been that she simply prefers to watch the game by herself because THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. You don't have to have a dead daddy story in order to be watch football by yourself.

Back in ye olden tymes, I used to loooooove Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I used to watch it with my sister if possible (one year, she taped every single episode for me so that we could watch them together). After I moved to another city, I always watched it by myself because I just preferred not to have the distraction of other people around (when my sister and I watched together, we would only talk during the commercials or after the episode ended). I also trained all of my friends to respect that I was unavailable on Tuesday nights. If the phone rang, I wouldn't answer it. One night a friend of mine forgot that it was Tuesday so she called and then left the following message: "Hey, oh wait, it's Tuesday. Sorry. I'll call you back in an hour after Buffy is over." Someone who likes and respects you won't be rude and intrusive about something that you want to do without them. Toby, on the other hand, refuses to let Kate have any space. Instead of saying, "Okay, enjoy the game. Maybe call me afterward and we can have dinner together?" he just kept pestering her. I am one of those people who refuses to give in when people keep asking me the same thing in hopes of getting a different answer. If I said no the first time, I will say no the next 100 hundred times. I will not give in just to shut you up. I wish Kate would stop giving in to Toby and force him to respect her boundaries.

I loved seeing Kevin interact with Randall and his family. Their breakfast scene showed the grownup version of Randall being exasperated by his brother for the millionth time. But it also showed that Randall still didn't want to hurt Kevin's feelings by flat out asking him how long he was planning to stay (which is why I loved that Beth just jumped right in and asked bluntly). Also very brotherly was that Randall's solution to Kevin's sad story about his lonely gigantic hotel room was to offer to take it while Kevin watched the kids. That is such a sibling thing to do!

I totally felt for Kevin when the girls started asking about ghosts and death because the look on his face said he knew he was going to step in it and he was afraid of screwing up. I think it was less his experience being around kids and more that he didn't know what Randall and Beth had already told them. I love that he has never told Kate about his painting ritual. See, Toby? Even twins who are super close still have their own secrets and alone time!

Randall's monologue in the hotel room was amazing. Sex! Room service! Robes! Pay per view!

Jack also annoyed me this week. First of all, you're supposed to talk about whether or not you want kids BEFORE you get married. But secondly, if you decide that you need to have that conversation to update your status, the appropriate time is not at a bar, especially during the Super Bowl. Just because you decided that you want to have kids right this very minute doesn't mean that your friends or everyone else in the bar wants to hear you hash it out. Way to make things awkward for your friends AND annoy everyone in the bar!

[movingtargetgal]

I love the Big Three, their parents, Randall's family and William.  They are all "good people" who have their flaws but love each other warts and all.  Toby rubs me the wrong way.  He is very overbearing, controlling and gives off a stalkery vibe to me. 

[NutMeg]

My favourite scene this week was Kevin/William.

I think Toby is used as a prop, to bring things out of Kate. So, while he's useful for the story, I feel ok in not liking him because he is more of a prop than a real character. At least for now. 

[Jodithgrace]

Well, if it makes everybody feel any better, I just read a post mortem interview with Milo Ventimiglia in which he confirms that the scene with Randall packing William's things was, indeed, a flash forward. 

However, he didn't offer any clues as to his own character's demise..so no spoilers there.

[ShadowFacts]

8 hours ago, Tiger said:

Beth was my spirit animal tonight.  However, before Beth announced she was late, the way SKB and SKW were playing the scene was as if Randall was having a manic episode.  After what Beth seemed to stop herself from telling William something in the pilot, and then the thing with the pills and Randall's behavior in the hotel room, I still think there's some sort of mental issue there.

You may be on to something about Randall.  It really is quite extreme to lose one's vision in a stressful time.  There's more to it.  He's a very intense guy.

[MyAimIsTrue]

10 hours ago, AuntieL said:

When Toby paused the game I was all "Dude!  Have you never met a football fan before?" 

I'm not a football fan (baseball only, thanks) but last weekend I was at a friend's house to watch the PBS documentary on "Hamilton" and she paused it several times mid-stream and I had to hold back at my desire to steal the remote.

Loved this episode.  LOVED it, even if it meant I turned away from the World Series for an hour.  I can't decide if it's Beth or Susan Kelechi Watson who is my new girl crush.

[Chaos Theory]

I think it's an interesting roll reversal.  When Rebecca saw how much Jack really enjoyed Football she asked to be a part of it. Toby tried to interject himself into Kate's tradition and then got upset when she didn't want to change it for him.   I don't think Kate and Toby talk much about what matters and that is on both of them.  I think Kate is a lot more like Rebecca then she cares to admit.  I am not sure she actually wants a relationship certainly not with Toby.

I really like Kevin's storyline.  I didn't see his question to William as being racist.  Maybe unfunny but I don't see him as a racist guy.  I think it was meant to break the ice which it did.  I thought there entire conversation was extremely well done.

[luna1122]

Yeah, Toby definitely lost any good will he'd gained for me last week with this episode. He is so pushy and controlling and needy and annoying. I don't think he's a bad guy, but he definitely has boundary issues that would be a deal breaker for me.

I am sad about Jack, but like most everyone else, glad that he's not an absentee dad or in terrible health or something. We still don't know the story of how Rebecca and Miguel got together or when, I suppose there still could have been infidelity somewhere, but I do hope not. I'm very curious what happened to Miguel's wife, and also we now know there is extended family somewhere as well--Miguel's kids are the triplets' step siblings.

Both Jack and Beth annoyed me last nite, picking inopportune times to have BIG conversations. A bar in the middle of a super bowl game, AFTER you're married, is not the time to talk about having babies. In front of your uncomfortable friends, no less. I wanted to smack him. I never wanted kids, so I felt for Rebecca and tho she said she imagined them with children, it felt like a compromise she wasn't sure of. That's a big compromise. And Beth...couldn't have waited one more day to have the 'maybe i'm knocked up' convo with Randall? She couldn't have just enjoyed the gorgeous hotel room and had some shower sex with her hubby? I get it, she was freaking out and not feeling great. I get it. But I still felt bad for poor Randall and his dreams of one luxurious, kid free night.

I love that we got more insight into Kevin too. He hides his self doubt and insecurities with his good looks and inappropriate humor and superficial glibness. The dining room table scene was hilarious. I love his dynamic with William. His speechifying over his chaotic looking Pollack painting at the end got schmaltzy and overwrought, but that's this show, in general. I still really like it.

I also do think we got a flash forward with William's death, and that he's not gone yet.

Some of the questions about 'would this have happened all the way back then?'--meaning the late 70s, early to mid 80s--are making me feel really really old. Yes, we had sunscreen and interracial couples back then.

[Guest]

I disliked Toby for the first time. Really? 

I assumed Jack was dead, but still felt gut punched. I do wonder if Miguel and his wife divorced or if she's dead too.

Kevin annoyed me too, but he was good at the end. 

[UMAngela]

1 hour ago, NutMeg said:

My favourite scene this week was Kevin/William.

I think Toby is used as a prop, to bring things out of Kate. So, while he's useful for the story, I feel ok in not liking him because he is more of a prop than a real character. At least for now. 

I was so annoyed with Toby this week that it ruined the emotional impact of the reveal about Jack for me (which I had already guessed, but REGARDLESS).  Thank God for Kevin's speech to bring me back into the moment... and when he said something to effect of thinking of his dad/missing him every day, gut punch.

[TheHappinessHotel]

Please don't kill William.  Please.  He is such an amazing addition to the show.  His scenes with Kevin were terrific.  

Also, I am on Team Toby.  I don't have an issue with him.  

Jack...first time I teared up watching this show.  That really got to me.

[melody16]

The part where it flashbacked to the Big Three and Rebecca/Jack watching the game together was poignant. Rebecca hugs Randall and Jack hugged Kate.  Kevin was always the one left out.

[topanga]

10 hours ago, AuntieL said:

When Toby paused the game I was all "Dude!  Have you never met a football fan before?" 

I know, right? I learned this lesson from my husband. I consider myself a casual football fan--when I'm watching a live game my myself or with the kids, I'll rewind the TV to watch a great catch, or we'll pause it to talk. But the hubby? He refuses to pause or rewind. If you have to pee, wait for a commercial. 

 

10 hours ago, Blackie said:

Didn't mind the start of this episode but hated the end of it.  I was wondering if it was the series finale lol.  Seriously too smaltzy for me, Kevin with his painting, blech. Maybe I just hate football, and had a dad that watched all sports.

Yeah. I like it when the show's emotional scenes feel organic (e.g. last week's scene with Randall and William). But in some scenes I can feel the writers trying to tug at my heart strings.  And I do like football, but the scene with the urn felt emotionally manipulative. 

Count me in as someone who likes Toby and felt he just made a mistake by inviting Kate to his house for the game. In the final scene, when they're watching football with Jack, Toby was totally into the game and didn't ask Kate about her TV and didn't try to pause the game. 

 

6 hours ago, femmefan1946 said:

On the bright side, I do think he really likes her. And the sex is good. As Jon Huertas (Miguel) said in one episode of Castle. "Pancakes are how you say thank you for last night". (Or burnt toast chips with hemp seed I guess.)

Heh. One of my favorite Castle episodes. "The witness refuses to cooperate." I hope Jon brings some Esposito to this role. I do wonder what happened to him and Shelly--they seemed pretty happy in 1980. Although the writers fan-wanked this scene, BTW. If the original pilot had the twins being born in 1979 (based on Kevin's "Challenger" reference), then they wouldn't have been watching the 1980 SB with the Steelers vs. the Rams. They would've been have been watching SB XIII in January 1979--where the Steelers beat the Cowboys  *sniff*

[cardigirl]

1 minute ago, TheHappinessHotel said:

Please don't kill William.  Please.  He is such an amazing addition to the show.  His scenes with Kevin were terrific.  

Also, I am on Team Toby.  I don't have an issue with him.  

Jack...first time I teared up watching this show.  That really got to me.

Totally agree with you on all points.  Still kind of verklempt this morning, that last speech was amazing and should win all the emmys.  

I love how Justin Hartley is portraying Kevin.  He has been a revelation to me every single episode.  Is he hot?  Of course he is, but his facial expressions reveal so much depth to this character, I'm willing to follow his storyline for a looooong time.

And Toby revealed last week just how destroyed he was by his ex-wife, so I'm gonna cut him a little slack about pushing to be a part of the ritual with Kate. 

This show has really snagged my interest, I hope the writing and acting continues to be top notch.

[GodsBeloved]

Kevin gets the win for this episode. 

Jack's gone, William's gone ?

11 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

There we have it: "present Jack" is an urn..

Am I wrong for laughing at this?

11 hours ago, pianogirl73 said:

This episode did a lot to explain Kevin. Even in the flashback where the family was watching football, Rebecca hugged Randall, Jack hugged Kate, and Kevin threw his arms around them all. Poor kid!

I noticed that too. Come here Kevin, I have a hug for you!

[AzraelKay]

fyi, for those wondering about William's status after last night, This is what creater Dan Fogelman said in an interview:

 "The William part of it is meant to be this almost metaphysical glimpse at a hypothetical future. Ron Cephas Jones, the actor, is very much alive in episode 6, for instance, in present day. But we have this ominous thing looming in some kind of distant or near-distant future."

So he's not dead yet, but doesn't sound like William will have a very long future on this show.  Of course, it depends on how much "time" passes for Season 1.  So far, it's apparently only been a couple of weeks...