The Other Duggars: The Lost Girls and Amy

[mynextmistake]

50 minutes ago, JKL845 said:

1) I never said anything about not having consequences. I don't think Jill is surprised at all.  People get upset over nothing all the time, even things that aren't true. No surprise there. Big deal.

2) Don't think JILL is. 

Who were you talking about, then? Amy? Is there something suggesting that internet strangers prodded her into hurting family members? Her reaction to Jill’s post seemed genuine enough to me. I don’t think she was goaded into being upset by the internet. 

[Barb23]

5 hours ago, awaken said:

I’m sad that sweet Meredith has the ridiculous sounding nickname Dithy!  

I can't make fun of any family nickname. A lot of times the weird sounding nick name comes about as a mispronunciation from another sibling.  My niece was called "Ya Ya" for a few years because her younger sister couldn't say Lauren when she started talking. My son whose name is Brian was called "B" by another cousin when she was learning to talk. 

I'm sure Dithy came about in the same way --as an easier to say version of Meredith by one of the other kids & it stuck.  

ETA:  on the other side of our family we have a "Dabs" as a family nickname for Abby.  

[satrunrose]

My reactions to the Duggars' social media posts has mostly been eye-roll-y, which is how I react to most things about the Duggars anyway. The exceptions are Jill's longer post and Lauren. Jill's long post about Mary's "soul-winning" ways is upsetting for precisely the reasons Jill meant it to be upsetting. I lost my grandmother in December and, as an inconsistent attender of a very liberal main-line protestant church, we never talked about her "personal relationship with Jesus" but my Nan had more of a servant's heart than all thirty-odd Duggars put together. To have Jill come out on social media (although I know it's her belief and that a lot of folks believe the same) and say that my grandmother is in Hell because she was "just" a good person while hers is in Heaven makes me see red. 

Lauren's just confirms that she is very much an all about meeeeeee type, as I have already suspected. Miscarriages are sad and awful and hard, sweetie, but so is losing a grandparent. You don't get to piggy-back on your in-laws' grief to make sure everyone knows just how much more tragic your story is. 

Edited June 16, 2019 by satrunrose

[Jynnan tonnix]

3 hours ago, Barb23 said:

I can't make fun of any family nickname. A lot of times the weird sounding nick name comes about as a mispronunciation from another sibling.  My niece was called "Ya Ya" for a few years because her younger sister couldn't say Lauren when she started talking. My son whose name is Brian was called "B" by another cousin when she was learning to talk. 

I'm sure Dithy came about in the same way --as an easier to say version of Meredith by one of the other kids & it stuck.  

ETA:  on the other side of our family we have a "Dabs" as a family nickname for Abby.  

I think "Dithy" is kind of cute, actually. To be honest, since I've never actually known another Meredith, I had no preconceptions of what a nickname might be, but the "Mere" which most people here tend to call her often puzzled me. How is it supposed to be pronounced? Like the word mere (meer)? That doesn't really make sense. Like the first syllable of her name (Mer, probably pronounced more like Mare)? Then why keep the second "e" in spelling it? The first two syllables of her name (spelled Mere, but probably pronounced more like Merry)? That would be cute, I guess, but why not spell it Merry at that point and avoid confusion? 

Other than "Dithy" being maybe a bit close to "ditzy" or being in a "dither" if you are really looking for nits to pick, it sounds fine, if a little quirky. But quirky is generally fine in my book.

My dad, by the way, had the champion of nicknames which people outside the family could never work out. He was born in Poland, named "Franciszek" (Francis in English), which is typically shortened to "Franek", but in the convoluted way of Polish diminutives which tend to extend a name (rather as one might take the name William, shorten it to Bill, then add a y, and possibly more extraneous stuff and end up with something like "Billykins"), he ended up being called "Franiusiek", which was subsequently shortened once more so that he became "Niusiek", which is a far cry from "Franciszek". Such is the way of family nicknames.

Edited June 16, 2019 by Jynnan tonnix

[Churchhoney]

12 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

 If you knock me down and I break my arm, it doesn’t really matter (except possibly in a legal sense) whether you knocked me down out of spite or carelessness. My arm hurts just as much either way. 

Thanks for the good account of where you're coming from. I definitely get what you're saying.

This right here sums it up for me. You believe there's no difference between these two things and I think the difference between them is the only thing that matters. For me, it even affects how much my arm hurts, actually. 

Had I been Amy and felt hurt at Jill's hamhanded comment, I would have tried to put it out of my mind while I coped with my initial grief. And after that was done, I'd have  gone to her, and explained exactly why it upset me and why I thought similar things would upset others.

Then I'd respond to Jill further based on how Jill responded to me. If she tried to understand what I was saying, apologized and said she'd try to remember and think twice about things like this the next time, then we'd be cool (at least until she kept on doing it).  If she blew me off and showed that she truly doesn't give a shit about others' feelings, then I'd walk away from her.

It's those responses that would matter to me. Not the original incident, which happened in the heat of a confusing and fraught time for everybody. The kind of time when a helluva lot of people make big errors in what they do and say. 

 I've seen plenty of cases in which people -- including me -- have responded in massively hamhanded ways to big events. People way older than Jill and presumably way more sophisticated about the ways of the world, too, in many cases.

That's a kind of mistake that I truly think anyone at any age and level of sophistication can make. I don't know if there's anyone who doesn't just respond wrongly sometimes when it's important not to. And I definitely don't think there's anybody who is incapable of responding in a way that inadvertently triggers somebody else's sensibilities and feelings, because we all respond and are sensitive in such different ways -- So for me the question is always, What does the person do after the event if somebody points the problem out to them? 

Washing my hands of the person right then and there? Not an option, as far as I'm concerned, if it involves somebody for whom I don't already have solid evidence of meanness and bad intentions.  In my opinion, doing that would make me an equal contributor -- or even a bigger one -- to the overall problem.  Turning what might be a communication issue only into an angry battle. 

Now I agree that it's quite possible that Amy did start out by telling Jill how bad that post made her feel and why, and asked for an apology.

And it's perfectly possible that Jill didn't comprehend what she was asking or laughed in her face or refused to retract and change. We don't know this whole story. And I don't know what these people are like in real life. Jill may be a really massive jerk. It's quite possible.  

And if that's went down, then I'm fully on board with Amy being pissed off. (Although I'm never on board with putting cryptic nasty messages on the internet that just may be about your friends and relations, no matter what they did. Say what you mean and say it privately when it involves a real-life relationship, is my feeling.)

Edited June 16, 2019 by Churchhoney

[humbleopinion]

Respect to Grandma Mary.

Clowning her ridiculous family is no disrespect to her.....

Failed attempts to convey emotional outpouring for their much beloved grandmother just spotlights their lack of command of words to articulate their grief...yay emojis!

[kaleidoscope]

I wonder if Jill was jealous of Amy's relationship with Mary?  Amy had grandma all to herself, and Jill had to share with a billion siblings.  Jill has never had that kind of attention from a female family member.  My heart breaks for Amy and Deanna.

Edited June 16, 2019 by kaleidoscope

[lilwhitelion]

Re: Nicknames. My grandmother’s given name was Bertha. Known as Bert for 50 years. Husband number 3 thought it was short for Roberta so began calling her Robbie. That stuck to the day she died. 

[FizzyPuff]

On 6/14/2019 at 5:44 AM, DangerousMinds said:

I read Amy stopped following Jill, Joy, and Anna on sm.

Wow I really thought she got on with those three girls especially Joy. 

On 6/14/2019 at 7:25 AM, Zella said:

It just dawned on me that they might have had a pretty good row off social media, too, which might also dictate who got unfollowed. . . . 

Damn it! I bet no TLC cameras were around then,Now that’s something I’d watch. 

17 hours ago, truebluesmoky said:

This is actually a very sweet post...

Aww Meredith singing you are my sunshine to grandma is so sweet, I had tears in my eyes 😢

Edited June 16, 2019 by Puffin

[irisheyes]

From all the posts, it sounds like Grandma Duggar worked very hard to KNOW each of her grandkids and great grandkids as individuals and treat them as unique human beings. As opposed to JB and Michelle who only see them as a herd. Pretty sure that when they pass away, their grandkids won’t fill SM with all of the sweet, individual things they did for them. Because they’d have to write some fiction. 

[Scarlett45]

I can certainly see Amy being in the depth of her grief, expressing herself to her cousins, some nasty things being said and Amy unfollowing them. Someone upthread mentioned that once an elder dies many will say what they TRULY FELT about family members when they always kept her mouth shut out of respect for their elder. 

I could very well believe that Jill wasn’t attempting to be hurtful or insensitive to her cousin, but rather than saying “I’m sorry, I didn’t realize” she got defensive & Amy called her an idiot. 

I do believe Amy loved Grandma Mary very much, combine that with being very pregnant right now.....at least she and Deanna have each other. 

[FizzyPuff]

1 hour ago, irisheyes said:

From all the posts, it sounds like Grandma Duggar worked very hard to KNOW each of her grandkids and great grandkids as individuals and treat them as unique human beings. As opposed to JB and Michelle who only see them as a herd. Pretty sure that when they pass away, their grandkids won’t fill SM with all of the sweet, individual things they did for them. Because they’d have to write some fiction. 

I think JB did try and do things with his kids though, playing with them etc when they went places on the show or even at home you could see he was actually trying to be a dad and interact with his kids. Michelle not so much, maybe she did it with the older ones then gave up the more kids she had and just saw herself as a broodmare. 

[Fuzzysox]

Poor Grandma. Condolences to her family. I think it will hit Amy and Joyless the most. Amy because they were always together and Joyless because we all know Grandma was her real mother growing up.

[Oldernowiser]

You know, to me the ONLY positive to being a member of a family this massive is that there should be someone around to pay attention when you get old and more accident-prone.

Instead she dies because there was no one there to pull her out of the damned pool.

 It’s ironic, sad, and, frankly, borderline negligent.

[Spencer Hastings]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I can certainly see Amy being in the depth of her grief, expressing herself to her cousins, some nasty things being said and Amy unfollowing them. Someone upthread mentioned that once an elder dies many will say what they TRULY FELT about family members when they always kept her mouth shut out of respect for their elder. 

Amy might even know how Grandma truly felt about some of them and their antics (so many to choose from). No doubt she loved them, but I’d be willing to bet that she made side comments from time to time while it was just her and Amy. That may also contribute to Amy’s current mindset. 

Edited June 16, 2019 by Spencer Hastings

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, Oldernowiser said:

You know, to me the ONLY positive to being a member of a family this massive is that there should be someone around to pay attention when you get old and more accident-prone.

Instead she dies because there was no one there to pull her out of the damned pool.

 It’s ironic, sad, and, frankly, borderline negligent.

The Duggars are a lot of things but I don’t think they were negligent towards Mary. There’s nothing to suggest that she was physically or cognitively unable to look after herself. It was an ACCIDENT. A tragic one but it’s not anyone’s fault. Young people can have accidents like this as well. 

Likely she may have wanted to live alone to get away from the noise. She may have wanted her “me time” to enjoy her home on her own terms. 

I do hope no one at the home at the time is burdened by guilt over this. Do we know who found Mary? Was it Deena?

[BigBingerBro]

Dithy doesn't surprise me.  Back in the day when J&A were on the show constantly, she never called Macynsie (sp!?) her full name.  It was always "Kinsie" or "kins".  I wonder if any of the other kids have nicknames?

[WalrusGirl]

6 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Do we know who found Mary? Was it Deena?

Yes, People reported it was Deanna. Horrible no matter who it was, but I’m also relieved it was one of the full-on adults and not a grandchild, especially a pregnant granddaughter. 😔 https://people.com/tv/grandma-mary-duggar-found-by-daughter-after-drowning/

[Oldernowiser]

15 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

The Duggars are a lot of things but I don’t think they were negligent towards Mary. There’s nothing to suggest that she was physically or cognitively unable to look after herself. It was an ACCIDENT. A tragic one but it’s not anyone’s fault. Young people can have accidents like this as well. 

Likely she may have wanted to live alone to get away from the noise. She may have wanted her “me time” to enjoy her home on her own terms. 

I do hope no one at the home at the time is burdened by guilt over this. Do we know who found Mary? Was it Deena?

She had had a couple of mini-strokes and couldn’t drive, or do I have that wrong?

[Scarlett45]

9 minutes ago, WalrusGirl said:

Yes, People reported it was Deanna. Horrible no matter who it was, but I’m also relieved it was one of the full-on adults and not a grandchild, especially a pregnant granddaughter. 😔 https://people.com/tv/grandma-mary-duggar-found-by-daughter-after-drowning/

I’m so very sorry that Deena had to see her mother in that state. I hope she takes care of herself emotionally and has people in her corner to support her in her grief. I too am happy it wasn’t Amy or one of the little ones. I don’t think Deena was negligent towards her mother at all, but Mary was her mother, and grief isn’t always rational. 

[65mickey]

19 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

The Duggars are a lot of things but I don’t think they were negligent towards Mary. There’s nothing to suggest that she was physically or cognitively unable to look after herself. It was an ACCIDENT. A tragic one but it’s not anyone’s fault. Young people can have accidents like this as well. 

Likely she may have wanted to live alone to get away from the noise. She may have wanted her “me time” to enjoy her home on her own terms. 

I do hope no one at the home at the time is burdened by guilt over this. Do we know who found Mary? Was it Deena?

Yes a younger person may have tripped and fallen into the pool. But hopefully that younger person would know how to swim. That is unless a long denim skirt pulled them down.  If Mary was confused and fell into the pool in the deep end she may have panicked and not known how to get to the side and get her self out if there was no steps. Confused elderly adults should not be left alone around a body of water be it a pool, lake or river. 

[Scarlett45]

5 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

She had had a couple of mini-strokes and couldn’t drive, or do I have that wrong?

Many people have mini strokes and don’t lose any physical or cognitive functioning.  No longer being able to drive an automobile doesn’t mean she wasn’t capable of living dependently or doing her typical chores.

Also elderly people can be stubborn- it’s quite possible someone told her they would clean the pool and she wanted to do it herself because she was used to doing so; and proceeded to do as she wanted “on the sly” because it was her damn house and she wasn’t going to be told what to do (been there!)

Unless Mary was in such poor cognitive condition she required 24/7 supervision to keep her from being a danger to herself I don’t think anyone was negligent here. And nothing I’ve read or heard suggested she wasn’t well enough to live independently (even with her strokes this winter). 

I absolutely believe Deena loved her mother and wouldn’t have put her in danger if she was ill in such a way. 

[65mickey]

If Mary had suffered strokes and was frail and confused it was not a good idea to have her live alone in this house. At the very least the pool should have been enclosed in a fence. Yes elderly individuals can be stubborn but this is no excuse for her to be left alone around an open body of water. This should be a lesson to the Duggars with all of the many young children to get the pools on their property secured behind a fence. You cannot watch a child 24/7. 

[Scarlett45]

5 minutes ago, 65mickey said:

If Mary had suffered strokes and was frail and confused it was not a good idea to have her live alone in this house. At the very least the pool should have been enclosed in a fence. Yes elderly individuals can be stubborn but this is no excuse for her to be left alone around an open body of water. This should be a lesson to the Duggars with all of the many young children to get the pools on their property secured behind a fence. You cannot watch a child 24/7. 

I’m not trying to beat a dead horse- but I think where we diverge is that there’s no evidence she WAS confused.

Being 78 and having had mini strokes several months ago doesn’t necessarily mean she wasn’t cognitively 100%- and capable of unlocking her own pool, to clean it, or dip her toes in etc etc. 

Unless there is evidence that she was confused it was just an accident. An awful one but an accident. 

[WalrusGirl]

50 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

She had had a couple of mini-strokes and couldn’t drive, or do I have that wrong?

Plenty of people take, or are advised to take, some months off of driving if they’ve had a TIA or “minor” stroke. For a number of reasons. But that Jana was driving her to church doesn’t mean she flat out *couldn’t* drive, either. 🤷🏻‍♀️

46 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Unless Mary was in such poor cognitive condition she required 24/7 supervision to keep her from being a danger to herself I don’t think anyone was negligent here. And nothing I’ve read or heard suggested she wasn’t well enough to live independently (even with her strokes this winter). 

This. As long as Mary was able to understand the risks of living alone (period or in proximity to a pool), she had every right to decide that’s what she wanted to do. Competent adults are allowed to make bad decisions. (In general. I’m not saying I think this was a bad living situation, as I know *I’d* prefer it to living at the big house, and it would be far better for my blood pressure and quality of life.) She honestly could have just as easily (MORE easily) slipped on and down stairs, inside or outside the house, with a head or neck injury leading to the same result.

We don’t know enough about her condition to be making real judgments about her living situation - my dad pretty fully recovered after his stroke, but we encouraged a month off of driving and he did so, and it took a year or two before he was really comfortable driving long distances again in terms of stamina. (He just turned 77; this was two years ago.) But he’s 100% independent in terms of living and driving. Mary living so close to family and being checked on daily/multiple times a day (via contact with Deanna or granddaughters, etc, or someone actually driving over to visit) is kind of the dream living situation for someone in her position. Drivers available, people to set up her meds, etc, but her own quiet space. It’s awful what happened, but it could have happened in the shower or tub or on the stairs, too - she was presumably on blood thinners after two recent strokes, so any fall was likely to be bad news.

[Scarlett45]

@WalrusGirl thank you for making my point more eloquently than I could. 

[mynextmistake]

10 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Thanks for the good account of where you're coming from. I definitely get what you're saying.

This right here sums it up for me. You believe there's no difference between these two things and I think the difference between them is the only thing that matters. For me, it even affects how much my arm hurts, actually. 

Had I been Amy and felt hurt at Jill's hamhanded comment, I would have tried to put it out of my mind while I coped with my initial grief. And after that was done, I'd have  gone to her, and explained exactly why it upset me and why I thought similar things would upset others.

Then I'd respond to Jill further based on how Jill responded to me. If she tried to understand what I was saying, apologized and said she'd try to remember and think twice about things like this the next time, then we'd be cool (at least until she kept on doing it).  If she blew me off and showed that she truly doesn't give a shit about others' feelings, then I'd walk away from her.

It's those responses that would matter to me. Not the original incident, which happened in the heat of a confusing and fraught time for everybody. The kind of time when a helluva lot of people make big errors in what they do and say. 

 I've seen plenty of cases in which people -- including me -- have responded in massively hamhanded ways to big events. People way older than Jill and presumably way more sophisticated about the ways of the world, too, in many cases.

That's a kind of mistake that I truly think anyone at any age and level of sophistication can make. I don't know if there's anyone who doesn't just respond wrongly sometimes when it's important not to. And I definitely don't think there's anybody who is incapable of responding in a way that inadvertently triggers somebody else's sensibilities and feelings, because we all respond and are sensitive in such different ways -- So for me the question is always, What does the person do after the event if somebody points the problem out to them? 

Washing my hands of the person right then and there? Not an option, as far as I'm concerned, if it involves somebody for whom I don't already have solid evidence of meanness and bad intentions.  In my opinion, doing that would make me an equal contributor -- or even a bigger one -- to the overall problem.  Turning what might be a communication issue only into an angry battle. 

Now I agree that it's quite possible that Amy did start out by telling Jill how bad that post made her feel and why, and asked for an apology.

And it's perfectly possible that Jill didn't comprehend what she was asking or laughed in her face or refused to retract and change. We don't know this whole story. And I don't know what these people are like in real life. Jill may be a really massive jerk. It's quite possible.  

And if that's went down, then I'm fully on board with Amy being pissed off. (Although I'm never on board with putting cryptic nasty messages on the internet that just may be about your friends and relations, no matter what they did. Say what you mean and say it privately when it involves a real-life relationship, is my feeling.)

I definitely understand your position as well. And I don’t actually disagree with much of what you’ve said here — vaguebooking is not an optimal strategy for solving problems, and in an ideal world Amy would have talked to Jill about this. I guess I just empathize with Amy because I think I understand how she feels. I wouldn’t have survived my childhood without my grandfather, who was really the only person in my life who loved me unconditionally and liked me for the person I was instead of the person everyone else wanted me to be. I also have a bunch of cousins and I can easily imagine how I would have felt reading a post like Jill’s right after he died. The pain and anger would have been so visceral that I don’t think I would have had the grace to handle it optimally. Sometimes you’re so hurt that all you can do is chomp. I think that’s probably what it was like for Amy. 

As to the rest of it, I think we all balance intention and action differently when we assess situations. To you, intentions are foremost. To me, actions are. I can see how that would lead us to have different perspectives on this situation! 

I do hope the cousins eventually bury the hatchet. Amy’s marriage doesn’t seem that great and she’s going to need support when the baby comes, especially without Grandma Mary around. 

[WalrusGirl]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

@WalrusGirl thank you for making my point more eloquently than I could. 

I was just agreeing with you! But I’ve interned at an Area Agency on Aging during my master’s, and work in medical/primarily older adults. 🤷🏻‍♀️

What I forgot to mention is that there’s also *no way* Mary’s various medical providers weren’t asking about her living situation at stroke discharges and follow-up appointments. PT clears one to return to their living situation before hospital discharge, or alternative arrangements are made prior to discharge. Her doctors knew if she was living alone, how often she had someone checking in, etc, and if she was in an uncleared living situation, it would have been easy to remedy in this family. But one can fatally fall down the stairs, in the shower, or into the pool whether or not someone is living with them. 😔

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, 65mickey said:

Yes a younger person may have tripped and fallen into the pool. But hopefully that younger person would know how to swim. That is unless a long denim skirt pulled them down.  If Mary was confused and fell into the pool in the deep end she may have panicked and not known how to get to the side and get her self out if there was no steps. Confused elderly adults should not be left alone around a body of water be it a pool, lake or river. 

We haven't heard that Mary was confused.  Many elderly and physically challenged people live alone.  In Mary's case, she lived very near her family and they apparently saw her regularly.  We know she went to church with Jana the morning of her death and Deanna found her later that afternoon.  She was alone no more than a few hours and there is no evidence that she couldn't manage for herself for that period of time.

Anyone can drown in a pool, even a good swimmer; particularly if they fall in fully clothed and/or hit their heads on the edge and are dazed by the blow.  If Mary was wearing a sweater or sweats or denim, it would've weighed her down and pulled her under and it could've prevented her from getting out of the water even if she could swim.

ETA: as far as being supervised 24/7, that's a tall order for anyone.  A friend of mine lost her mom a few years back.  Her mother, in her mid 80's, went to the hospital with a respiratory infection.  While in the ER, she went to the bathroom, slipped and hit her head on the edge of a gurney.  Head injury, died the next day.  Her mom had been living independently in her own apartment, still driving, no issues with walking.  A nurse asked if she needed help getting up and she said she was fine, didn't want help, didn't need a bedpan.  Stuff happens.

Edited June 17, 2019 by doodlebug

[MMEButterfly]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I’m not trying to beat a dead horse- but I think where we diverge is that there’s no evidence she WAS confused.

Being 78 and having had mini strokes several months ago doesn’t necessarily mean she wasn’t cognitively 100%- and capable of unlocking her own pool, to clean it, or dip her toes in etc etc. 

Unless there is evidence that she was confused it was just an accident. An awful one but an accident. 

Dang, I've been reading this and thinking about how I'm a couple of years older. Granted, I've never had a stroke, but I still work part-time and recently traveled half-way around the world (first one way and then another) with no young people watching me. If there were no evidence she was confused, then she could  and should make her own choices. 

[Marigold]

So....

Will TLC film the memorial service?

I think they will...there has been quite a lot of interest in Mary Duggar and that translates into ratings. 

[WalrusGirl]

7 hours ago, doodlebug said:

ETA: as far as being supervised 24/7, that's a tall order for anyone.  A friend of mine lost her mom a few years back.  Her mother, in her mid 80's, went to the hospital with a respiratory infection.  While in the ER, she went to the bathroom, slipped and hit her head on the edge of a gurney.  Head injury, died the next day.  Her mom had been living independently in her own apartment, still driving, no issues with walking.  A nurse asked if she needed help getting up and she said she was fine, didn't want help, didn't need a bedpan.  Stuff happens.

Yeah, even in assisted living, they check on residents - with their own tile and showers and bathtubs - every few hours. My grandfather was stuck on the floor for awhile twice, both times without his fall alert “necklace” on (once in the bathroom in the middle of the night, once while he was changing and it was hanging on the side of the bed during that process, out of reach from the floor). The fall that ultimately led to his death was with my dad walking right next to him, and he significantly broke his fall, they went to the hospital immediately, etc, but the bump on landing was still just enough and in just the wrong place.

24/7 supervision - at home or in a care environment - only happens on suicide watch, I suspect, and even then I think it’s more “remove everything” than “someone actually right there in earshot or eyes-on 24/7.”

(Which is probably a good thing - no adult would *want* actual 24/7 supervision, and what people want matters. How crazy-making and infantilizing.)

Edited June 17, 2019 by WalrusGirl

[Jynnan tonnix]

My mother, who is 85, still lives at home, though she has some help coming in for anywhere from a few hours some days to 24 hours a couple of days a week. She often spends weekends with us, and will probably transition to living here full time at some point this year. She doesn't get around very well any more and has a degenerative spine condition which leaves her in pain most of the time, and her feet not always quite responsive to what she tells them to do. But she still wants to try to stay at home for as long as she can. 

Actually, though, speaking of mini-strokes, it wasn't until a couple of years ago when she first started having really significant problems with her legs and was going to have spinal surgery that a brain scan showed that she had had several mini-strokes at some point, though they couldn't determine when they might have happened. They certainly didn't leave her cognitively impaired at all - she's still as sharp as a tack - and though they may have contributed to her frailty, there was nothing indicating any sort of sudden drop in ability at any time, and at whatever point they had happened she was probably still living quite independently with only someone to come in and clean for her every couple of weeks.

[Dimi1]

so what exactly did jill and joy and any other girls do to upset amy? and I also wonder if Gma left amy some money??? maybe that is what it is really about....

[ginger90]

2 minutes ago, Dimi1 said:

so what exactly did jill and joy and any other girls do to upset amy? and I also wonder if Gma left amy some money??? maybe that is what it is really about....

Amy hasn’t removed comments that refer to Jill in response to this:

This could lead one to believe it is because if this:

She did delete other tweets.

[PradaKitty]

I would have done the same thing as Amy. 

[debbie311]

19 hours ago, Marigold said:

So....

Will TLC film the memorial service?

I think they will...there has been quite a lot of interest in Mary Duggar and that translates into ratings. 

I read on Facebook that TLC did film the funeral.

[galaxygirl76]

5 minutes ago, debbie311 said:

I read on Facebook that TLC did film the funeral.

Of course they did. Everything for the almighty dollar.

[Oldernowiser]

10 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

Of course they did. Everything for the almighty dollar.

This is how Ma and Pa are going to slither their way back onto the show. Hell, they’ll probably have Josh give a tearful eulogy.

🤢

[Lunera]

Pickles says that Smugs spoke at the funeral but TLC cut off the cameras.

[65mickey]

16 hours ago, WalrusGirl said:

Yeah, even in assisted living, they check on residents - with their own tile and showers and bathtubs - every few hours. My grandfather was stuck on the floor for awhile twice, both times without his fall alert “necklace” on (once in the bathroom in the middle of the night, once while he was changing and it was hanging on the side of the bed during that process, out of reach from the floor). The fall that ultimately led to his death was with my dad walking right next to him, and he significantly broke his fall, they went to the hospital immediately, etc, but the bump on landing was still just enough and in just the wrong place.

24/7 supervision - at home or in a care environment - only happens on suicide watch, I suspect, and even then I think it’s more “remove everything” than “someone actually right there in earshot or eyes-on 24/7.”

(Which is probably a good thing - no adult would *want* actual 24/7 supervision, and what people want matters. How crazy-making and infantilizing.)

That was my point that you can't have 24/7 supervision. But the worst thing is to have an unenclosed pool around young children or elderly adults who may or may not be unsteady on their feet or may or may not be confused. Just doesn't make sense. The fact is that Mary did fall into the pool and did drown. You don't hear of this with healthy adults who know how to swim very often. 

[Marigold]

Someone posted in the comment section of Pickles post (shown above) that they were under contract to have the funeral recorded.

Is that true? I have no idea how TV reality shows work. I depend on you guys to give me the info.  😉

[Zella]

I don't know how that works either, @Marigold but am also curious. Would their contracts have something in there about any major life events, which would be broad enough to cover everything from weddings to babies to deaths to moves?

[Marigold]

Just now, Zella said:

I don't know how that works either, @Marigold but am also curious. Would their contracts have something in there about any major life events, which would be broad enough to cover everything from weddings to babies to deaths to moves?

That's exactly what I thought.  The comment said they are required by contact. 

Are reality contracts like that? I never even thought about it.  Is this why we get phone video also?  Obviously the Duggars want some "interesting" footage but I never in a million years thought that they had to film life events.  Wow. 

[Spencer Hastings]

Maybe there is a stipulation in their contract that states TLC has the right to film major events that would impact the show or its “characters.”  As a production, their job is to choose interesting storylines and events. Losing a grandmother who was on the show a lot in the past is probably one of those events. 

[Rabbittron]

The reason in my opinion is because of Boob and the almighty dollar. 

[GeeGolly]

6 hours ago, Lunera said:

Pickles says that Smugs spoke at the funeral but TLC cut off the cameras.

The comment above strikes me as ageist. Most 78 year olds I have known are far from frail. My mom passed in her mid 70s and was anything but frail. My dad passed in his early 80s - two weeks after he power washed his girlfriend's home.

I have quite a ways to go before reaching my 70s, but I hope no one assumes just because of my age that I need some kind assistance to manage my days.

It's certainly more common for older folks to have serious medical events because bodies are not made to last forever, however it's unfair to think older folks need to be housed in nursing homes waiting for a medical event to occur. 

For my own peace of mind I'm going with Mary tripping, hitting her head, becoming unconscious and falling in the pool. Through not fault of her own or anyone else.

[Albanyguy]

7 hours ago, Marigold said:

Someone posted in the comment section of Pickles post (shown above) that they were under contract to have the funeral recorded.

Is that true? I have no idea how TV reality shows work. I depend on you guys to give me the info.  😉

I really don't think that's true. It sounds like one of their leghumpers making a knee-jerk excuse to defend the Duggars from the implication that they're exploiting Mary's death.

[Ohiopirate02]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

The comment above strikes me as ageist. Most 78 year olds I have known are far from frail. My mom passed in her mid 70s and was anything but frail. My dad passed in his early 80s - two weeks after he power washed his girlfriend's home.

I have quite a ways to go before reaching my 70s, but I hope no one assumes just because of my age that I need some kind assistance to manage my days.

It's certainly more common for older folks to have serious medical events because bodies are not made to last forever, however it's unfair to think older folks need to be housed in nursing homes waiting for a medical event to occur. 

For my own peace of mind I'm going with Mary tripping, hitting her head, becoming unconscious and falling in the pool. Through not fault of her own or anyone else.

I agree.  From what Jana posted and then who found the body, she was only by herself for a few hours.   That is a huge reach for Pickles to say that JB was too cheap for a nursing home.   

[Higgins]

On ‎6‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 5:07 AM, WalrusGirl said:

Yeah, even in assisted living, they check on residents - with their own tile and showers and bathtubs - every few hours. My grandfather was stuck on the floor for awhile twice, both times without his fall alert “necklace” on (once in the bathroom in the middle of the night, once while he was changing and it was hanging on the side of the bed during that process, out of reach from the floor). The fall that ultimately led to his death was with my dad walking right next to him, and he significantly broke his fall, they went to the hospital immediately, etc, but the bump on landing was still just enough and in just the wrong place.

24/7 supervision - at home or in a care environment - only happens on suicide watch, I suspect, and even then I think it’s more “remove everything” than “someone actually right there in earshot or eyes-on 24/7.”

(Which is probably a good thing - no adult would *want* actual 24/7 supervision, and what people want matters. How crazy-making and infantilizing.)

Suicide watch is one to one. Eyes on constantly.