Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[laurakaye]

It does seem very odd that we still don't have a picture of Jill with Sam, or even one of the family together...just the one of her holding the baby, and now one of Sam alone.  Considering how long she was supposedly in labor, and the size of the baby, who knows how the delivery affected her.

IMO, in the one photo of Jill and Sam that we've seen, she looks older and very tired....she looks so different from the wide-eyed, forehead-wrinkled photos we're used to.  Maybe that photo is Jill with her "keep sweet" guard down?

[MelsW]

I'm a longtime lurker here and think the medical/legal speculation on this thread is insane. I'm guessing the Dillard's were holding out on the photos, hoping for a People Magazine payday. Once they realized Sam's photos don't carry the price tag they hoped for, they were free to post on social media. Second theory is they wanted the interest and anticipation to build by holding out on social media posts, which if this thread is any indication, it worked.

[Sew Sumi]

Ignore. Didn't see the post above. Can't delete it. ?

Edited July 25, 2017 by Sew Sumi
The erase function isn't coming up. Sorry for the dupe.

[pinkelephant3]

He looks kind of like he has down syndrome, the eyes and top of nose has some of the effects.... I've worked with special needs kiddos and there are some similarities in appearance

[farmgal4]

11 minutes ago, pinkelephant3 said:

He looks kind of like he has down syndrome, the eyes and top of nose has some of the effects.... I've worked with special needs kiddos and there are some similarities in appearance

I think he looks 100% perfect!  He's a little doll and the cutest newborn of them all IMO!

[doodlebug]

15 minutes ago, pinkelephant3 said:

He looks kind of like he has down syndrome, the eyes and top of nose has some of the effects.... I've worked with special needs kiddos and there are some similarities in appearance

He doesn't look like a Down Syndrome kid to me.  Looks like a normal newborn.

[laurakaye]

Where does the little pug nose come from with Jessa and Jill's kids?  It must come from the Duggar side, because Sam looks so much like his cousin Spurge.  I suppose the girls had that nose when they were little and outgrew it.  It's adorable, though.

[lascuba]

20 hours ago, Christina87 said:

And it's crazy how we didn't see that he was the worst husband early on! I pitied Jessa, and felt that Jill would likely enjoy an upper-class life. Then again, I pictured her being an exceptional housewife and mom, and she didn't meet that expectation either...

I thought Derick was garbage from the beginning. "Missionary" (not the type who does anything useful) and "prayer partner" were the big indicators. Plus, anyone who chooses to become more religious than their upbringing is bound to be an ass.  That said, I thought and still think that he and Jill are a good match, personality wise. They're a hot mess as a couple, but it's not one person's fault over the other's. It's that they amplify each other's faults because they have the exact same faults.

I still think Ben was a mistake, but Jessa was smarter in choosing someone who's personality is different in a lot of ways.

[SnarkyShark]

15 hours ago, HooHooHoo said:

Surely JimBob and Michelle wouldn't be vacationing in Hawaii if something was terribly wrong. Even they aren't that self-centered, right?  RIGHT????

The thought of this is such a stark contrast to what I experienced with my grandparents. My grandpa on my mom's side was rushed to the hospital for emergency cardiac surgery because his aorta split. He ended up surviving the surgery, but statistically, most people don't. They thought he would die. This was the night before my grandparents on my dad's side were supposed to leave on vacation to Hawaii. They ended up postphoning their vacation for two or three days to take care of my siblings and I while my parents were at the hospital with my other grandpa. Now that's what I call being unselfish. 

[BitterApple]

Sam is really cute, but to me he looks like Derick.

[Churchhoney]

On 7/24/2017 at 0:57 PM, JoanArc said:

Si, totalmente. She did a lot of subtle misrepresentation during the courtship.

Of course, she also comes from a family where the boys are claimed to be electricians and plumbers -- without training or apprenticeship, Jessa proclaims herself an "author," Joshley was promoted as some kind of experienced, super-savvy political consultant when he was a teenager. Heck, even the adjacents catch it -- Jeremy's dad or somebody "ordains" him when he has no relevant education or experience.   Slow-coach Jilly probably thought she'd arrive in DA and magically begin speaking the language. With all of them, it seems to be some strange combination of lying, ignorance of what it actually means to know anything, and a childlike delusional quality -- if I think it, I'll make it so! (or Jesus will?)

I remain amazed that JD can actually fly those planes. He's definitely gone against the family grain. And I wonder whether anybody else ever will, in that regard.

On 7/24/2017 at 3:39 PM, Missy Vixen said:

Nobody comes off looking good here, do they? KJB and J-Chelle were so desperate to get at least one daughter married off that they chose a man that could not have been more wrong for her -- did they not know what the missionary requirements of his church were, or did they just not care?

I would say this is the answer to pretty much every question we might ask about JB and M and their kids.

[PikaScrewChu]

1 hour ago, lascuba said:

I still think Ben was a mistake, but Jessa was smarter in choosing someone who's personality is different in a lot of ways.

Jessa would be dragging Ben by his ear to the nearest airport to fly out on standby had Ben attempted to put her through what Dullard is putting Jilly Muffin through.

[Churchhoney]

19 hours ago, floridamom said:

It's been suggested that the reason the Dillards are not posting information about Sam is because they have legal issues with Sam's birth. They say that attempting a home birth after an emergency C-section is illegal in Arkansas and the child welfare services or the proper authority may be looking in to child endangerment regarding Jill and Derick.

That's pretty serious stuff IMO if it's true. Anyone know about this possibility?

I have no idea, but I do have a hard time imagining Arkansas putting judicial consequences on any home birthers, really. They have the second-highest fundie population in the nation and, I think, a lot of fundies of the crunchy variety as well. I have a hard time seeing their state legislators putting themselves in the position of trying to prosecute a bunch of these women. Especially because you might have a darned hard time proving that that's really what happened.

[Churchhoney]

7 hours ago, luvbadtv said:

Maybe Jill needs to remember her conversation with Jinger about being content with what God has in store for you.  It might not be what you want, but you must be content.

Well, that's what she's trying to do in that post, right? She's not finding it easy, but that's her aim according to what she wrote, I believe. I don't think we can call her a hypocrite for that.

[Missy Vixen]

8 hours ago, luvbadtv said:

Maybe Jill needs to remember her conversation with Jinger about being content with what God has in store for you.  It might not be what you want, but you must be content.

Hey, TLC: Want an idea for an upcoming episode?

I would PAY to see video of Jinger calling up the smug Jilly Muffin to tell her how she needs to work on her "contentment". 

7 hours ago, laurakaye said:

I can't believe Jill would be trolling her followers using the health of her baby as bait...that would almost be a new low for this family (Joshgate is hard to beat).  

 

RATINGS.

DONATIONS.

[Albanyguy]

3 hours ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

Even if the doctor told Jill no more babies, I doubt she'd be working through accepting that right now....I feel like she'd be in denial for a long time.

I don't think it would even register with her; it would go in one ear and out the other. The Duggers have a very finely-honed ability to only hear what they want to hear.  Anyway, why would Jill listen to a doctor when she herself is a trained medical professional who is an expert on all things obstetrical?

[Genevrier]

22 minutes ago, Albanyguy said:

Anyway, why would Jill listen to a doctor when she herself is a trained medical professional who is an expert on all things obstetrical?

Yes, well. There is that.

 

I think the family, Jim Bob included, simply have no sense of how ignorant they truly are.

[GeeGolly]

I was checking out newborn/1 month pics of the four boys Sam really is across between Spurge and Iz. As a newborn - 1 month Henry didn't really look like any of the 3. Sam is a cutie.

[sometimesy]

He's still too much of a newborn for me to tell what type of human he will look like, but his little shirt with the elephant is so cute, and I do like his pose. At least they have the sense not to put the child in a dump truck or pose him on a chopping block like babydefinatelynotgay. 

[PradaKitty]

Look at Sammy's  hands.  That is one looonnnggg  "little finger"!

[ginger90]

45 minutes ago, sometimesy said:

He's still too much of a newborn for me to tell what type of human he will look like, but his little shirt with the elephant is so cute, and I do like his pose. At least they have the sense not to put the child in a dump truck or pose him on a chopping block like babydefinatelynotgay. 

Or swaddled.

[ariel]

2 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

I don't think it would even register with her; it would go in one ear and out the other. The Duggers have a very finely-honed ability to only hear what they want to hear

The Duggars believe that they are God's chosen & no matter what they do, it's biblical, their God will not smite them.

[awaken]

On 7/24/2017 at 8:57 AM, floridamom said:

I don't know...IMO, Derick looks a bit buzzed in that picture to me...anyhow..........

LOL, derick always looks buzzed. No alcohol needed!  

[QuinnInND]

10 hours ago, truebluesmoky said:

He's a cutie...

He's darling! That little pug nose is just adorable! 

[AnnieBeez]

I'm not sure if I'm looking at the same baby. He's kind of odd-looking, but that goes with newborn territory a lot of the time. Maybe it's the angle, but I can see where someone would wonder if he has an issue. The spacing of the eyes and bridge of the nose look off. 

I hope he's a happy, healthy little guy. 

[jilliannatalia]

There doesn't appear to be any Arkansas law barring home births for mothers whose prior deliveries were via C-section. 

[Quof]

There isn't a law targeted at mothers. The law prohibits midwives from attending VBACs, so mom would have to find a physician to attend the delivery at home or deliver with no trained assistance.  

[lianau]

On 25.7.2017 at 4:06 AM, Sew Sumi said:

She pretty much confirms what we've suspected about the circumstances surrounding Sammy's birth. 

 God is sitting on his cloud facepalming and  thinking  about the brains he has given them and questioning why the Dullards aren't using them .

[floridamom]

I remember well that Jill was told by the attending physician in Izzy's birth to wait 24 months before conceiving again. She did not wait 24 months.

All that we absolutely know is what DDD posted; that Jill labored 40 hours and that Sam was born via C-section in the hospital.

Logic dictates that something did occur with this. Sam seems to be fine now after being hooked up to monitors, so we're thinking something went awry with Jill. Why they're waiting to say anything is anyone's guess.  Mine is that Jill is having a difficult time accepting what went down.

[tabloidlover]

I was coming here to post the same thing @floridamom!   I think they had a scare with Samuel but he seems to be doing well (based on nothing but the pic).  I think Jill is the issue.  Something went very wrong with her, whether physical or mental or both.   

Given that she was raised to be a "helpmeet" and baby machine and neither of those are going as she expected, it's no wonder her life is a real struggle right now.  Could also explain why Cathy had Izzy for TWO weeks after the birth.  Most interesting about Cathy's comment about giving him back was referencing giving them time to settle in.  What is there to settle in?   She's a mess, her parents flew to Hawaii and something tells me Derick isn't much help to her either.   

For Izzy's sake, I hope that Cathy is around quite a bit over the next few weeks and months.  He's gonna need someone stable to take care of him.

[floridamom]

Agreed, tabloidlover. I hope Cathy is around for her grandchildren for many YEARS to come. Whatever the number of children that Jill has; they all will need a normal, real loving grandmother/stable influence in their lives. Cathy has a permanent address; also something Jill's children will not seem to have traveling back and forth between the USA and CA.

I asked myself the same question, 'what is there to settle in to" for 2 weeks after a new baby AND a C-section? I had an abdominal hysterectomy at 46 years old with 2 active boys and a husband who didn't want to boil water. I needed SOME assistance with the heavy stuff but I didn't have to hand my boys over to someone else. DDD lived in a dorm at college and then went to Nepal. I'm sure he has skills that could help Jill out with laundry, ORDERING fast food for dinner and Izzy. Don't know why Cathy was needed for so long. Hopefully, they'll do the right thing and let the facts be known.

[Nysha]

As a grandma, I'm never going to criticize grandbabies visiting their grandparents. Especially, in this case, since I think Grandma Cathy is going to be Israel (and Sammy's ) only chance for normalcy and unconditional love and attention. I hope Derick & Jill hand him over to her as often as possible. 

[louannems]

My mom, who just turned 80, had 5 C-sections  in about 7 years.  Us older kids were all farmed out to local families for 1 week after each new baby.  In those days, women stayed in the hospital close to a week after a C-section.

After that one week, mom was home , on her own, and dad, of course, went to work.

Unless Grandma Cathy begged to keep Izzy for 2 weeks, it does seem excessive.  Jill should have been able to manage after a week.  Who knows what really happened?

[nightmeri]

I hope this is an ok question to ask: IF the Dullards were told they should not have more children or were told to wait 24 months, does that medical "diagnosis" allow them to use birth control? Or must they practice abstinence/abstain at certain times?  I remember Jill saying "Derricks Room" in DA, which I assumed to mean they slept apart. Maybe that is causing depression or anxiety. She was taught that a happy marriage includes constant friskiness...

[Christina87]

1 hour ago, nightmeri said:

I hope this is an ok question to ask: IF the Dullards were told they should not have more children or were told to wait 24 months, does that medical "diagnosis" allow them to use birth control? Or must they practice abstinence/abstain at certain times?  I remember Jill saying "Derricks Room" in DA, which I assumed to mean they slept apart. Maybe that is causing depression or anxiety. She was taught that a happy marriage includes constant friskiness...

That's a good question. Plus, they legitimately did look hot for each other before they married. I wonder if they were all over each other the first few months, but then maybe derick didn't want to "disturb" the baby or something, so they quit. Then after that, maybe he never wanted sex and she can't question her headship, but is miserable. I thought it was odd that he told her they would have a new baby the next year, like he was controlling that side of the relationship altogether. It reminded me of when Anna nudged Joshley and said she wanted a new baby soon (but we all know joshley wasn't putting out because if porn and infidelity). This problem may be more widespread in fundamentalism than we know. Sex drives have been totally suppressed their whole lives, and people who seek it out (aka derrick) probably don't have high sex drives to begin with. Jeremy strikes me as the exception, haha.  I doubt derrick is gentle when rejecting Jill either, and probably makes her feel like some sort of sex freak. Then she looks at Jessa, Jinger, and even Joy, and assumes they aren't having the same problems, and feels alone.

This isn't weird to me. I've had boyfriends (yes, plural) who just have no interest in sex. I did date one when I was young who turned out to be gay (we were both musicians), but he TALKED about sex all the time, and has gone on to have lots of sex with men (we just dated briefly and are still friends). I think some guys just don't care for it, but they're straight in the sense that when they do want it, they want a woman. I think fundie or not, this phenomenon is more widespread than most people think! When guys aren't getting it, they complain. Both members of the couple at least feel they're "normal." When the guy won't put out, the girl usually internalizes it, and feels that if guys are so frisky, and don't want her, that she must be disgusting. No girl wants to admit that's going on! I doubt the sexless guys are broadcasting it to their friends either. I do see this being a potential problem in fundamentalism, especially with headships who secretly want to limit children. 

Edited July 26, 2017 by Christina87

[laurakaye]

Speculation on Pickles & Hairspray is that Jill had a hysterectomy.  It does kind of check off all of the speculation boxes - no sign of Jill except the one photo, Izzy staying for two weeks with Cathy, the mysterious post-it note verse, no interviews, no family photos, no video of the entire Duggar clan passing the new baby from person to person.  So at this point I just hope Jill's mental health is okay and that she's getting help from Cathy, since her parents are busy sight-seeing and shopping for new black support hose in Hawaii.

[Jellybeans]

I speculated that here as well too but there has been no evidence.  

I do think something happened but hopefully everyone is ok now.

[Guest]

Like I've said before, if she had a hysterectomy they would have posted about it and made it a "poor me" situation unless they've wised up and left some things private for once.

[sometimesy]

58 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Speculation on Pickles & Hairspray is that Jill had a hysterectomy.  It does kind of check off all of the speculation boxes - no sign of Jill except the one photo, Izzy staying for two weeks with Cathy, the mysterious post-it note verse, no interviews, no family photos, no video of the entire Duggar clan passing the new baby from person to person.  So at this point I just hope Jill's mental health is okay and that she's getting help from Cathy, since her parents are busy sight-seeing and shopping for new black support hose in Hawaii.

JB and Mechelle are not going to help anybody with anything, even if they are next door. Cathy will drive over to help and the new j-slave platoon will cook, clean and hold the baby. The boys will run errands. Derp will do nothing except get her a coffee and dry toast so she can #besthusbandever while the rest of the family carries the burden of a newborn and a large house. If there is an issue with Jill or Samuel it will be used for marketing the show or their DONATE button. 

Imagine the confusion after Derp posts the obligatory 'my wife was in labour for 40 hours and that's evidence that she is a birth hero' only to be told by his handlers that it had to be removed. 

[Jynnan tonnix]

45 minutes ago, heatherrrrz said:

Like I've said before, if she had a hysterectomy they would have posted about it and made it a "poor me" situation unless they've wised up and left some things private for once.

Except that while they may see a lot of other problems as "poor me" situations, babies seem to be in their own special "blessing" category;  proof of their godliness. Admitting that God apparently does not see one of them as deserving of blessings is a much bigger thing for them to own to or accept, I would think.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Except that while they may see a lot of other problems as "poor me" situations, babies seem to be in their own special "blessing" category;  proof of their godliness. Admitting that God apparently does not see one of them as deserving of blessings is a much bigger thing for them to own to or accept, I would think.

That's true, I never really know what's going on inside of their heads. Like do they think that because she had problems with the delivery that she's no good anymore?

[Sew Sumi]

I suspect that Jill has a whopping case of PPD, hence her post-it post to God about working on her contentment. She may be resisting the notion that she can never have the VBAC of her dreams and feels inadequate. I'm sure she also realized that she won't be breeding an army for Jesus. She's probably an emotional wreck. 

[truebluesmoky]

I also agree that she probably has PPD. Two births that didn't go her way would increase that. She could also be having trouble with breastfeeding, which would add to her sadness. For someone who is crunchy about birth stuff and envisioned homebirths, two tough labors and two C-sections would definitely make someone already suffering from PPD feel even worse. And, like many have speculated, C-sections do likely decrease the amount of children you can have AND vaginal births after 2 C-sections are more rare than after just one. 

I was induced with my first son due to high blood pressure. The Pitocin made for a quick but difficult labor and I ended up tearing quite a bit during delivery. I could barely move and couldn't do a lot of the normal new mom stuff, plus I had trouble breastfeeding. Add that to my postpartum hormones and I was a wreck for a full month.

[BitterApple]

I wonder if somebody in the Fundie-sphere said something hurtful to Jill and that just piled on to everything else she's going through. If I've learned anything over the years, it's that these girls are super-competitive when it comes to husbands and babies. I could see Jessa or someone else making a snotty passive-aggressive remark like "Well, at least you won't have to worry about changing diapers for the next fifteen years!" or something equally obnoxious and it just sent her over the edge.

Pure speculation, of course, but it wouldn't surprise me. 

[OpieTaylor]

53 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

I suspect that Jill has a whopping case of PPD, hence her post-it post to God about working on her contentment. She may be resisting the notion that she can never have the VBAC of her dreams and feels inadequate. I'm sure she also realized that she won't be breeding an army for Jesus. She's probably an emotional wreck. 

The Dullards may end up spinning their situation as a sign from God that he really wants them to be foreign missionaries, so they can't have a bunch of pregnancies and kids bogging them down. Derick may be delighted about that, but Jill not so much.

[sometimesy]

29 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I wonder if somebody in the Fundie-sphere said something hurtful to Jill and that just piled on to everything else she's going through. If I've learned anything over the years, it's that these girls are super-competitive when it comes to husbands and babies. I could see Jessa or someone else making a snotty passive-aggressive remark like "Well, at least you won't have to worry about changing diapers for the next fifteen years!" or something equally obnoxious and it just sent her over the edge.

Pure speculation, of course, but it wouldn't surprise me. 

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

[kokapetl]

I think Jill probably had a yuuuge mental breakdown, possibly with psychosis. Or perhaps the hospital's doctors couldn't ignore a glaring psychiatric issue that the family had been ignoring. 

[Sew Sumi]

Jill would certainly refuse any professional help, and as her post demonstrated, is trying to pray away her depression, guilt, feelings of inadequacy, etc.

[Marigold]

I think Jill is just DEVASTATED she had to have another C-section.  Two C-sections/two failed vaginal attempts means that her fertility is going to be limited. 

This is probably what has Jill in such bad shape. She believed the first birth would, of course, be a picture perfect home birth.  When that "failed" and she needed an emergency C-section, she was crushed.  This second pregnancy, she had her hopes on a picture perfect VBAC and now that "failed".  Sure, we all know women who have had 8 C-sections but that is not the standard.  Three or four is more likely.  And maybe when the OB was working on her, she was told she had a lot of scar tissue or something else that was not the best news for future C-sections. 

(I have had C-sections and during each surgery I have asked how things are looking in there; could I handle another pregnancy and C-section. I was so pleased during the last C-section that my scars had healed so well and was given the green light for another C-section if I wanted. Imagine Jill getting the opposite of that news? Especially after Jessa just had an uncomplicated home birth!)

We can all give opinions and advice on Jill not having such a large family but the fact is that Jill  wanted a large family and now all her plans & dreams are completely upside down and backwards.  Given Jill has such limited coping skills and is emotionally immature, she is really struggling. Mix in hormones, a post C-section recovery, a toddler and  Derick planning yet another missioncation asap, Jill is probably loosing her mind right about now.   

I originally thought maybe Samuel wasn't well but he seems to be OK. My bet is that Jill had a complicated C-section and was maybe told no more C-sections or only one more. 

[Christina87]

1 hour ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Except that while they may see a lot of other problems as "poor me" situations, babies seem to be in their own special "blessing" category;  proof of their godliness. Admitting that God apparently does not see one of them as deserving of blessings is a much bigger thing for them to own to or accept, I would think.

I think EXACTLY this. I think in her own way, Jill would have been delighted with a non Zika and non life threatening condition like Down's syndrome. She could have been the martyr, while knowing some new J'aslaves actually will provide the care for the child. She and derrick would have been ALL OVER the magazines getting big paydays for spouting their anti-abortion message. She would feel God was using her to turn people away from abortion, and if she even reached one person, it would be worth it. The payday and ratings would be so big they wouldn't even need DONATIONS!!!

that's what makes me think the problem is with Jill. That would be shameful in their circles. Second guess would be a problem with Samuel directly caused by Zika or their bad labor choices.