Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[PinkSprinkles]

I take the "70" hours of labor with a grain of salt. No hospital would have let her go that long unless she refused to let them touch her (Mother Sprinkles works in PP). If she really did go 70 hours then they probably had to sign some MAJOR paperwork agreeing not to sue the hospital if something went wrong, which it easily could have. 

[GEML]

All hospitals have ethics boards that can, if necessary, overrule a patient. Of course, with the Duggars, they would have everything on tape, which would doubly protect the hospital, which probably explains why Jill was given more leeway than most patients. She couldn't come back and say they wanted something different, and because the cameras were hers, but not done by a family member, they would be pretty reliable.

[lianau]

My sister-in-law was sent to a hospital with a NICU because her water had broken without her noticing it until a doctors appointment  about 24 hours later ( high tear of the amniotic sac) . Her doctor was concerned about the risk of infection for the baby. I don't get that Jill  was allowed to  be in labor for 70 hours before the c section .

[TVFAN]

I am going to be patient and see what is revealed on May 5th.  I love PEOPLE magazine, but it sells magazines by selling drama.  I'm not sure how accurate all of the details in the article are.

 

Jill and Derick may or may not be the most critical of thinkers, but I cannot see them doing anything to risk little Israel's life.  If the doctors had told them the baby was in danger without a C-section when they arrived at the hospital, I believe they would have moved forward with it then.  It's not like the Duggars have never had a hospital birth, and hasn't Michelle had more than one C-section?   I think we'll know much more after the broadcast.

 

I'm just glad everyone is okay.

Edited April 14, 2015 by TVFAN

[GEML]

I take the 70 hours as hyperbole too. She was eating Mexican food on Saturday.

The water breaking is the 24 rule. It's not a hard fast rule, but there is a reason for it.

[Ljohnson1987]

J'Chelle has had four C-Sections. (Jana/John-David, Jackson, Jordyn and Josie). Jubilee would've been her fifth.

 

Jill and Derick aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. More concerned about doing a natural birth, than the safety of their son.

[CofCinci]

I'm curious too what can the hospital do if anything to protect the mother and baby if the mother is refusing treatment?

The hospital social workers get the ball rolling very quickly with probate court and child protective services.

[Wellfleet]

After 20 hours, even with the IV, given that her water had broken, the group B strep and meconium, she should have taken the stupid pitocin! She almost certainly would have delivered within a few hours. There's a point where you really can be too purist for your own good.

Thankful he made it safely.

 

I've never been pregnant but I'm trusting the word of all the mothers here, and these comments are making me think that Jill & Derick should feel very very grateful they have a healthy little boy right now. It sounds like they took not just one, but several chances maybe they shouldn't have. For certain people, having a little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing. After reading the People story, I'm beginning to think Jill might be one of these. She came off as a little smug to me in the video especially. I could see her getting to think that she knows more than licensed medical personnel with years of study and experience. She has a lot of that unearned Duggar confidence...

Edited April 15, 2015 by Wellfleet

[Ljohnson1987]

Hey, Anna. Will you let Jill assist with M4? She's totally competent.

[Wellfleet]

I wonder if Jilly Muffin was able to keep sweet for 70 hours of labor, or if she ever gave in and screamed and cursed.

I'm sure she was a headache for the doctors and nurses. I'm sure she was unhappy to be there, because it wasn't what she wanted. Between her insistence on laboring for 70 hours before a c-section, her love for walking around barefoot and her TLC cameras, I'm sure she wasn't the easiest patient to deal with.

 

After viewing the People video, that was what I thought too. She seemed to be simmering a 'defiant' attitude just below the surface. Bet the hospital staff were glad to see them go.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Wellfleet

[Ljohnson1987]

Jill wouldn't be so smug if the baby had died or had serious complications. You're no hero for risking your son's life, Jill.

[Jellybeans]

We sure know a lot about Jill's labor and delivery before the episode has aired... I will wait till it airs.

[McManda]

I take the "70" hours of labor with a grain of salt. No hospital would have let her go that long unless she refused to let them touch her (Mother Sprinkles works in PP). If she really did go 70 hours then they probably had to sign some MAJOR paperwork agreeing not to sue the hospital if something went wrong, which it easily could have.

 

Why even go to the hospital if you're not ready to accept the help? Just in case something goes very. very wrong? That seems so selfish. She's going to make her own (bad) decisions until it's too late?

 

Only if there doctor friend who has already had his license suspended not once but twice for prescribing pain meds to himself and lost his DEA number to ever do so again came over and started it.

 

I can't tell if this is supposed to be serious or not either, but I don't doubt it's happened somewhere. Policy in the pharmacy I work in is that a doctor cannot prescribe controlled medications for oneself or family members. Anything else is fair game, provided it's in the doctor's scope of practice (so no eye doctors prescribing cholesterol meds or whatever). The sad part is there's more responsibility on the pharmacy to not let doctors get away with bad prescribing habits because it's easier for the DEA to impose regulations on dispensing than it is to police the people writing the prescriptions. I've had to play bad guy more than once.

[cereality]

What is wrong with them!? Group B strep, meconium, no Pitocin, a transverse baby and FINALLY they relent to a c section when the baby starts having heart rate issues?! I'm sure she was offered Pitocin the moment she walked in the door and a c section shortly thereafter. I called it -- she looked and sounded like she labored for a LONG time before a c section. I wouldn't trust her to assist me with anything -- if this is her own decision making for her own self and baby, I imagine how much more callous she would be with someone else's kid.

[Joe Jitsu913]

Jill is Michelle's daughter which means she wants to be a martyr.

[GEML]

Jellybeans - maternal health and the history of midwifery is something of my field, so when I say something, I do promise it's not to be critical of the field, it's to be protective of it. If the details in the PEOPLE article are true, what Jill, a trained midwife, did was genuinely reckless.

[Panders]

I'm glad that Jill and little Iz are ok after that story. But two things are clear 1) that baby did not want to come out and join the Duggar circus And 2) Jill may not be a natural born birther like her mother and Kelly Bates and may have to "settle" for only a handful of children.

[riverblue22]

PItocin doesn't always move labor along.  It didn't do much for me at all, and after a long up and down labor I had to have a C-section.

[Absolom]

 

Why even go to the hospital if you're not ready to accept the help? J

Per state regulations the midwife had to send her to the hospital or risk her license.  

[CherryMalotte]

And at the end, she had a beautiful, healthy son!

 

I think she's really friggin lucky.  It really saddens me that they'll probably put the fact that they had a healthy baby all up to God, when really she should be thanking the talents of the doctors and the nurses that helped make that possible.   

[McManda]

Per state regulations the midwife had to send her to the hospital or risk her license.

 

No, I get that legally she had to go. I guess people are stubborn, but after that long ... that's when you start accepting help and suggestions from people who know far more than you do. These people see hundreds of babies a year. That trumps any and all of Jill's midwife training or whatever she thinks she knows as a mother-to-be, IMO. And it just seems like a dick move to say "I'm only here because I have to be, legally. I don't need or want your help."

 

[disclaimer: for better or worse I have never been pregnant, never given birth, and have no children]

Edited April 15, 2015 by McManda

[lottiedottie]

I am absolutely shocked a hospital would let her stay there and labor for more than 2 days. (70 hours of labor- she went after 20 hours- so 50 hours of labor in the hospital.)

I call bullshit. No way they would let her go that long after her water had already broken. 

[Wellfleet]

Jill is Michelle's daughter which means she wants to be a martyr.

 

Yep, this is it in a nutshell. The more the mother suffers - and apparently in Jill's case, the more she risks - the more they think they're pleasing God. Total nutbars.

[3 is enough]

Wow.  I go out to run a few errands and come back to this?  

 

I am sorry, but for someone who prides herself on being a trained midwife, Jill sure dropped the ball .  2 weeks overdue, positive for Strep B ( curious to know just how long she was in possession of THAT piece of knowledge), meconium , and they STILL held off on the C-section?  What the HELL is wrong with her?

 

She and Derick are beyond lucky that their little boy is ok.  And she can thank the PROPERLY TRAINED DOCTORS AND NURSES for the positive outcome.

 

I have no objections to midwives, as long as they have real training and are certified, as in CNMs.   Jill's training is a joke, and shame on the State of Arkansas for allowing lay midwives to practice.

 

Jill should watch Call The Midwife.  Those women were far better trained even though it was 50-60 years ago, and they didn't have all of the modern conveniences.

[hlemommy]

I don't hold hope for anyone in that family at this point. Even with Israel complications Jill will still have a litter of children. Maybe not as big as her mom's but I'm sure she will have at least 7-15. I want to believe Si will be different but I'm sure he won't wonder far from how he was raised either. I kinda feel bad for them. What if mechelle and boob have a freak accident and both pass away, yeah they have older kids who can take care of the younger ones but what if they chose not to? Or wwhat if it happens to one of the kids where will their kids be left? It's sad to think that way but I do

[Wellfleet]

Rock Hudson on the cover. That's rich. Sorry Izzy had to share eyespace with a homoseuxal!

 

I wonder if this was deliberate on the part of the People people? If so, it's hilarious - and if not, it's hilarious! :>)

[Itsnotreality]

GEML completely agree. X1000. With far fewer indicators birthing can get to a dangerous spot for mom and baby. The great thing about (most) midwives is that they are so closely watching the patient throughout pregnancy and birth they tend to be the first to advise when intervention is required. I wonder if Jill realizes what a great disservice her "birth story" does for midwifery. Just cannot understand even seeing a "brought us closer together" after you just put your baby through such risk. They are so, so lucky.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Itsnotreality

[springtime]

Looks like Radar Online was in a rush to get to press (and overlooked editing!)

 

So the Duggar and Dillard agreeded hat it was time for a cesarean section.

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2015/04/jill-duggar-c-section-19-kids-counting-star-reveals-emergency-birth-baby-israel-dillard/

Edited April 15, 2015 by springtime

[JenCarroll]

My sister-in-law was sent to a hospital with a NICU because her water had broken without her noticing it until a doctors appointment about 24 hours later ( high tear of the amniotic sac) . Her doctor was concerned about the risk of infection for the baby. I don't get that Jill was allowed to be in labor for 70 hours before the c section .

Yeah, happened to me -- water broke, no labor, and the doctor said the baby had to be out in 24 hours or the risk of infection would be too great. I don't actually remember her asking my opinion about it -- not that it would ever, in a million years, have occurred to me or DH to say, "Nah, let's go with the risk of infection." (I had pitocin and delivered in 23 hours, just when they were prepping the OR.)

IF THE PEOPLE STORY IS ACCURATE, this was spectacularly irresponsible behavior. I honestly hope they have it wrong. Strep B, meconium... my god.

Edited April 15, 2015 by JenCarroll

[ChocolateAddict]

I'm not medically qualified to judge her choices nor have I ever been pregnant.  So my opinion is completely without experience! 

 

That said, her choices do seem a bit strange.  Considering 

 

-she was nearly 2 weeks overdue

-she had an infection

-there was fetal distress

-the baby was in a transverse, breech position

-the baby had an irregular heartbeat

-the baby had not yet descended 

 

it does seem bizzare that she waited 70 hours before having a c-section.  

 

At least there was a good outcome and mum and baby are well.  

[Apple Clark]

Her decisions are beyond strange, and even though I'm pregnant right now, I only just found out and this is my first child, I really shouldn't be judging either. But it IS beyond strange, and could have ended really badly for them. They're lucky and blessed that it didn't.

[JoanArc]

Jill's going to be the 'expert' at all future Duggar births. Let that sink in for a minute.

Edited April 15, 2015 by JoanArc

[3 is enough]

Congratulations Apple Clark!  Wishing you all the best. :)

[Jenniferbug]

Congratulations Apple Clark!

[Ripley68]

I say the 70 hours is total, not from when she got to the hospital.  I agree with all of you, she is extremely lucky.  I know so many women who have their plans and come hell or high water that is what is going to happen.  I also never understand why some women are so upset when they don't experience the birth the way they wanted.  So many don't understand that a healthy baby and mommy are the happy outcome.  I do understand PPD as I suffered from it, but the disappointment seems different.  Every think I've ever read, been told, have heard is that the baby is coming out of you 24 hours after water breakage; any sign of meconium and baby is coming out immediately! With contractions 1 minute apart and the baby in distress, whny would you continue to put your baby and yoruself in danger?

[3girlsforus]

I'm confused about the group b strep thing and how her treatment worked. Group b strep antibiotics must be administered via IV during labor. She had a lay midwife who does not have the authority to prescribe antibiotics. CNMs do but lay midwives do not. So if she started laboring at home, for 20 hours, how did she get treatment? After all it wasn't until the meconium that they transferred so it sounds like if everything with the labor had gone great and she had him at home she would not have had group b strep treatment. 

[Sew Sumi]

I'm sorry, I genuinely can't tell if this is supposed to be read as snark or fact?

Fact. Scott Fedosky is the doctor, and his license was revoked sometime in 2012, late in the year, IIRC. His wife was the doula "Miss Theresa" who oversaw Anna's first two births, as well as led JB/Mechelle's "cervix softening" Bradely class. I think she stopped practicing once he lost his license; her "office" was housed in his own offices. 

 

As for Jill, I imagine that 70-hour number was padded by some early Braxton Hicks action. Remember, it's her word vs...nothing. The hospital can't comment without her consent, and you know that she will never give it. That said, I totally agree that she showed poor judgment and put both her life, as well as that of her baby's, at risk. Also, even according to the article, from the time her water broke at 41w5d to when she delivered at 41w6d, the math doesn't add up. Also, she didn't have strep b testing until AFTER her water broke? Shouldn't she have had that test done weeks before? Can lay midwives give IVs for ANYTHING? I thought that was beyond the scope of non-invasive care of a "regular" pregnancy. Help me to learn here! 

 

I also doubt the baby moved. How could it when there was no room? It looked low and wide for the last couple of weeks; I think Izzy had been parked like that for a while. 

Edited April 15, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[Rhondinella]

Wait... What? Did she do a C-section without pain meds?

 

There is nothing in that article that says she didn't have pain meds once she went into surgery.

 

Yeah, is that a thing that's even allowed?  Or done?  I wouldn't think so normally.  I have a relative who is an anesthesiologist and I heard him tell a story once of a woman being prepped for a C-section when the baby basically coded inside her and they had to get him out immediately or he would die and they did basically cut her open before the spinal block had kicked in (which, someone give that lady a medal!) but I assume that only happens in cases of extreme emergency.

 

(Or if you're in the zombie apocalypse and there's no other way to get the kid out . . . .)

[cereality]

I love how they keep saying in the article and the video that the birth and this past week have really brought them closer together. I'm sorry if you need a risky birth where 3-4 different alarming factors came up to bring you closer together -- maybe you should have gotten to know each other a bit better before jumping into making a family.

 

I realize the first birth is often the hardest and not always indicative of how the rest will go, but it's possible that Jill didn't inherit Michelle's ability to just squat down and pop out a kid. If every birth goes like this -- I think she'll be having 3 more c sections and ending up with 4 kids total. Derick might be breathing a sigh of relief that 20 kids don't look like a realistic possibility.

[Fallacy]

Lately, Jill seems irritated with Derick in all their videos. He says something, she interjects a correction, and then they both look uncomfortable. In this video, he says they have started to "get back some sleep" and she says "well, not really. He is walking us up at night." He looks at her like he doesn't know what to say and then there's a pause and then Jill continues with the point that Derick was originally making. They really are super awkward together.

[asuwur]

I'm pretty sure that People made it as dramatic as possible. Everyone Is judging and making all kinds of very awful assumptions based on very vague statements in a People blurb and I'm pretty sure that if Jill managed to cure cancer, she wouldn't have done it correctly for many.....I highly doubt she made any decisions to endanger her child's well-being. She got tested and treated for the Strep B and was clearly monitored by professionals even while at home or she wouldn't have been treated for said strep. Personally I think homebirths are disaster waiting to happen but many people think they're amazing....even here, you know; unless is goes awry and winds up with a toilet delivery.

[Georgia]

I am so relieved that this baby is healthy. Honestly, I'm kind of nauseous thinking about what a close call they had. We have a baby in our NICU right now with GBS sepsis and he's not doing well. It's not the same as strep throat - it's very serious and can kill your baby. This is something that OBs and CNMs recognize. 

 

This kind of terrible judgment is exactly what I would expect from someone who has almost no critical thinking skills, a GED diploma* (I'd love to see her score on the science part especially), and lay midwife "credentials" from a distance-learning program that only requires you to attend 40 births (which is fewer than an OB sees in a week of residency). 

 

This is really upsetting. I'm dealing with parents who are devastated and blaming themselves when they did absolutely nothing wrong. The baby was born extremely quickly - before they got the GBS test back. The mom didn't realize she was running a fever and is so distraught that I had to call a psych referral.

 

*I think GEDs are great. I just don't think they should be the highest level of education of a woman who delivers babies for a living. I would have written high school diploma if she had one - I don't think that should be the highest level either. 

[SunDevil28]

Regarding Derrick changing all the diapers, I think I changed one diaper in the hospital with my first son just because I felt left out and the bassinet was high enough that I could.  But when I came home it was much harder. 

 

I kept a blog after his birth, which was a c-section after 21 hours of labor.  A quote from me, one week after birth: "I'm really surprised at how much the c-section takes its toll on you physically. So far, I've been pretty out of commission when it comes to taking care of [baby]. I can feed him, but pretty much everything else is difficult. It's hard to bend over to change his diaper or put him in his bassinet, since that's right where my incision is. I can't even sleep in bed yet because I can't use my abs to lift myself up from a lying position, so I've been sleeping sitting up on the couch."

 

So I'm really glad Derrick is stepping up.  Poor Jill is probably a mess.

 

Also, I wonder why she went to the hospital.  She was so alarmed by the meconium staining that she realized it was time to go to the hospital, but when she got there, she didn't do anything?  I legitimately don't understand and would like more details.  I'm hoping People just got it wrong...

Edited April 15, 2015 by SunDevil28

[riverblue22]

Yeah, is that a thing that's even allowed?  Or done?  I wouldn't think so normally.  I have a relative who is an anesthesiologist and I heard him tell a story once of a woman being prepped for a C-section when the baby basically coded inside her and they had to get him out immediately or he would die and they did basically cut her open before the spinal block had kicked in (which, someone give that lady a medal!) but I assume that only happens in cases of extreme emergency.

 

(Or if you're in the zombie apocalypse and there's no other way to get the kid out . . . .)

 

 

 

I thought in emergency situations like that they would slap the anesthesia mask on the patient and she would then have general anethesia.

Edited April 15, 2015 by riverblue22

[3girlsforus]

I thought in emergency situations like that they would slap the anesthesia mask on the patient and she would then have general anethesia.

 

They would but if she'd already had a spinal and it was mostly kicked in but not all the way they'd probably just cut. It would be faster. If she didn't have a spinal yet they'd put her under.

[MarysWetBar]

I don't get the anger over someone braiding her hair. If you've had a c-section, caring for your hair (especially long hair) is a challenge. Braiding it requires twisting, which would be painful. It's just something kind her sister did.

The last time i saw my brother alive in the hospital,I brushed and braided his hair for him, primarily to keep it from getting stuck to the leads they had all over his chest but mostly cus he loved the feeling of someone brushing his hair cus it was always a fond loving thing our mother did for us both as children. I think its a lovely thing for someone to do for Jill after a long hard labouring.

See? I'm not always snarky..lol

[3girlsforus]

(((((MarysWetBar))))) I'm sorry for the loss of your brother

[Sew Sumi]

 

Also, I wonder why she went to the hospital.  She was so alarmed by the meconium staining that she realized it was time to go to the hospital, but when she got there, she didn't do anything?  I legitimately don't understand and would like more details.  I'm hoping People just got it wrong...

Right. According to People, she labored 50 more hours at the HOSPITAL without intervention? Do they even allow that? Again, note that the People article only noted two days of labor; she could have started anytime on Sunday to make the 41w5d accurate. That's not 70 hours, which is why I think she didn't really have anywhere near that amount of hard labor. Sorry People. You're busted. :D

[GEML]

The last time i saw my brother alive in the hospital,I brushed and braided his hair for him, primarily to keep it from getting stuck to the leads they had all over his chest but mostly cus he loved the feeling of someone brushing his hair cus it was always a fond loving thing our mother did for us both as children. I think its a lovely thing for someone to do for Jill after a long hard labouring.

See? I'm not always snarky..lol

She might have been stubborn, but I'm glad Jill braided her hair. No matter what happened, she and the baby need care now, and I'm glad to hear she has someone who gave her a little kindness.

[Happyfatchick]

IMHO, of course, but something's going on. Interesting that Jilly Muffin and derickdillard would bring out the "we're open to adoption" three days after their son was born when those of us who have heard Gothard's BS take on it previously know this is a lie. This makes me wonder if they have already been told that there will not be the sheer numbers of "precious bundles" she had in mind due to complications or other issues...

Oh my GOSH, I had totally forgotten that Gothard isn't a fan of adoption!  I went to those seminars as a teenager, and he does NOT recommend adoption.  In fact, my little sister was adopted as an infant, and the birth mother then changed her mind and tried to regain custody.  (Long story, big ugly fight, state involved, blah blah) but my parents were ultimately named legal parents.  My mother went to Bill Gothard during a break and explained the situation and he told her she should give the child back to her birth mother (regardless of the state's findings, or the court rulings).  My mother was a HUGE Gothard fan, and felt a tremendous amount of guilt over keeping my sister.  I remember a lengthy depressive episode as a direct result of his advice. 

 

But you're so right about Gothard and adoption.  He told my mom that biblically, adoptions didn't turn out well (or some paraphrase of that) and that the adoptive parents were bound to suffer the consequences.  I'll be darn.  Huh.

 

So... given that we all believe they are swallowing the Basic Life Institute koolaid every day... what's with JessaBlessa stating so many times that they WANT to adopt.  Do they not know they are tempting fate and that adopted children aren't acceptable?   I guess he'd be okay with IVF, since the baby is your blood, sweat and tears at the end, right?  Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.