Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Wellfleet]

Uh, if derickdillard believes that JillyMuffinMama is qualified to actually educate his children, then he is still in preliminary "wedded bliss". Jill's quote that Derick is "doing amazing" at childcare is beyond poor grammar in my opinion. That girl isn't qualified to housetrain a dog. After all, she learned from one of the best ...Jim Bob's "Michelle and I's" amazing English..

So which is it Duggars? Is Michelle out of town with Jim Bob or is she local to Jill's hospital and really helping out..like doing something meaningful there...

Why would Joy, etc. need to take care of Jill if she is still in the hospital? Isn't that the hospital's job? Why does Princess JillyMuffinMama NEED her hair braided? Can't she do that herself?

So, derickdillard is following in the Duggar orthodontic tradition too..the "kids-in-law" seem to straighten their teeth too, like Anna...I don't understand why derickdillard's parents didn't provide him with orthodontics when he was younger? Cathy worked for WalMart, like Derick, I'm sure she had good benefits and his father was a law enforcement officer, also which usually provide good benefits...Methinks, it's a Duggar requirement and Jill pressured him to do so; backed up, of course, by Jim Bob. I'm so disappointed in Derick, he is just fading away from the person he used to be. I don't understand why his mother doesn't have a good talk with him. No mother of sons, like myself, wants to lose her boys to the wife's family completely. Sadly, this seems to be apparently happening to me.

Jill is no slouch, she can be a bossy bitch. I hear the tone of voice she uses to speak to her "little buddies" and it isn't a sweet, loving older sister/mom...it's instructional and pretty cold, IMO. I'm sure she takes out the same demeanor from her back pocket when speaking to derickdillard many times. I believe she fluxuates from the instructional, stern Jill, to the infatuated 14 year old Jill when it comes to derickdillard...

If she is still in the hospital, there is more going on there than just a routine C-section. I think since Izzy was so large, she may have had some internal issues trying to deliver him vaginally, and I also suspect that her incision may be longer than usual; perhaps some of her vitals were also of concern because she waited so long after her due date to be evaluated by an obstetrician. I am very glad that this innocent baby, no matter what his name is, is healthy and well. Jilly needs to be wiser next time and we all know that there WILL be a next time..hopefully not 10 more times.

Derick also has lost weight since the wedding, and he didn't have much to spare then! It is unusual for newlyweds to LOSE weight, don't they usually gain some? I think the pace of this family and trying to keep up with a "real job" is a lot for this guy who seems to be quite mile mannered and although keeps quiet now, somewhere in the future, this volcano WILL blow.

 

I'm sure there are a few exceptions but in my experience, most newly-married men gain weight, even if they're the ones that do the cooking. It's as universal as the Freshman Fifteen in college. They certainly don't all pork up as much as Josh did, but they have moved from a basically on-the-go, catch-a-meal-as they-can life to something usually much more stable - and often less-active as well. My Mom always talked about how much weight my Dad gained in the year before I was born, and I watched all three of my brothers gain as well. None of them became overweight, but they were definitely beefier than in their single days. And my youngest brother is essentially the cook at his house - during the weekday at least. My SIL does enjoy cooking and trying recipes on the weekends. I know because I'm their "come on over for Sunday night supper" tester/guinea pig. :>)

[JoanArc]

Derrick does have the power to sink Jim Bob's empire. Either via a social media post, or letting the wrong thing slip in an interview. They better pour some ice on that volcano. Bin, Cathy, Dan, etc. all have the power. Pops Seewald basically bullied Jim Bob into OK'ing the proposal.

 

I hope he catches up on his sleep. I can see his interest in the 'woman's work' fading after a few weeks. There's a buddy army and ol'pre-promgrammed Jill to handle that.

[lookeyloo]

"I don't understand why his mother doesn't have a good talk with him. No mother of sons, like myself, wants to lose her boys to the wife's family completely. Sadly, this seems to be apparently happening to me."

 

Well, I don't know how to put this quote in the box.  Anyway, being the mother of a son who married a girl I adore, I have always stayed out of their business.  I am a daughter in law twice.  First mother in law never minced words that I wasn't good enough for her son and questioned every decision he and I made.  He wanted less and less to do with her. I was too young to understand that we could have been more accepting, but, she made it very hard.  Second mother in law had her issues but I was much nicer about it, and she finally told me she can see her son is happy and that makes her happy.  I took a lesson or two from the two of them regarding the kind of mother in law I want to be.  Smile and nod.  Offer an opinion when asked.  Too many horror stories of awful mothers in law.  Maybe Cathy thinks her best bet of keeping Derrick close is to accept where he is at right now.  I can't imagine sitting my son down for any kind of lecture, etc. no matter how well intentioned.  I don't think it would go my way.  

 

floridamom, I'm sorry about your situation.  It isn't an easy path to navigate.

[HundFan]

As the mother of 2 "whopper" babies I just can't stand Jill's birth-weight-related accolades any more. Lots of women birth big babies. My daughters, now 27 and 29, came out weighing 9.7 and 10.5 respectively. One was a  c-section (though the decision to do that was unrelated to her weight), but I pushed the other out all by myself. Though I do now wish I'd driven to a small town to deliver. Maybe then my daughters would have made me a record-holder! As it was and continues to be,  lots of healthy women have big babies. So sorry Jill ... find another claim to maternal fame.  

[EarlGreyTea]

Has Derick really lost weight since the wedding? I haven't noticed. I noticed how thin he was at the wedding though -- he was swimming in his suit. I think most people do gain weight after a wedding. It's a happy time -- wedding planning is over; "tension" is released for people who didn't have sex until after the wedding; and for people coming from larger families -- they are no longer competing with 18 other siblings for seconds at dinner.

 

I think it was just an ill-fitting suit. It looked awful - if it was tailored I'd have demanded my money back. And it was shiny enough to see your reflection in it. Ben looked much better at his wedding, imo. 

[truelovekiss]

Derrick does have the power to sink Jim Bob's empire. Either via a social media post, or letting the wrong thing slip in an interview. They better pour some ice on that volcano. Bin, Cathy, Dan, etc. all have the power. Pops Seewald basically bullied Jim Bob into OK'ing the proposal.

He could, but I can't imagine him doing it intentionally. He lives in a house Jim Bob owns, he's making money off the show and he's married to Jilly Muffin, the Princess of People spreads and the ultimate daddy's girl. If he does something to disgrace the empire, Derick has his wife to contend with.

[Wellfleet]

As the mother of 2 "whopper" babies I just can't stand Jill's birth-weight-related accolades any more. Lots of women birth big babies. My daughters, now 27 and 29, came out weighing 9.7 and 10.5 respectively. One was a  c-section (though the decision to do that was unrelated to her weight), but I pushed the other out all by myself. Though I do now wish I'd driven to a small town to deliver. Maybe then my daughters would have made me a record-holder! As it was and continues to be,  lots of healthy women have big babies. So sorry Jill ... find another claim to maternal fame.  

 

Amen to this! My 4-foot 10-inch Irish great-grandmother, who, the whole time I knew her, weighed maybe 100 pounds, had four babies from 1907-1920, two of whom were 10 and 11 pounds respectively. Neither were c-sections or involved epidurals. And even though she & Great Grandpa were Catholics, they had the sense to stop after the 11-pounder. So sorry Jill, in this day and age, you're going to need to come up with a bigger claim-to-fame than "My baby was almost 10 pounds..."

[Vaysh]

I'm curious, everyone keeps saying that because Jill had a c-section (assuming she did) she won't be having more than 4-5 kids maximum as opposed to 19, but why is that such a certainty? Do women who have had c-sections become less fertile than women who hasn't had any? A quick google suggests that newer research says they don't, at least not due to the procedure, though the underlying causes may be an issue.

 

I was under the impression that Michelle had several (4?) c-sections in a row but that she just kept going anyway until her body simply refused due to age. If Jill is as drunk on the kool-aid as she appears to be, would she stop at four or five pregnancies, c-section or no? I'm assuming that a doctor or midwife would heavily discourage a woman who'd gone through a c-section or several to have a huge number of children, but if they were confronted with a pregnant woman who refused to abort for any reason and who wouldn't listen to sense about using birth control of any kind in the future, what would they do? Wash their hands of her and refuse care?

[Ljohnson1987]

Does Derrick know how to drive? Why does Jill cart him around? Will she continue to do that with Israel?

[truelovekiss]

Does Derrick know how to drive? Why does Jill cart him around? Will she continue to do that with Israel?

Some babies hate car rides. If Israel hates car rides and isn't a good sleeper, is Jilly Muffin going to insist on making him miserable for no good reason?

I think it was just an ill-fitting suit. It looked awful - if it was tailored I'd have demanded my money back. And it was shiny enough to see your reflection in it. Ben looked much better at his wedding, imo.

I doubt they would tailor a suit for Derick. I think that most if the Duggar wedding budget goes to the bride's dress, then bridesmaids' dresses, and then root beer for 1200 people. Everything else comes after.

[Literata]

As the mother of 2 "whopper" babies I just can't stand Jill's birth-weight-related accolades any more. Lots of women birth big babies.

 

Amen. My 10.2-pounder was easier to push out than my 8.7-pounder. And I bruised and tore less. And I'm a good four inches shorter than Jill, and not large.

 

I'm assuming MEchelle didn't have any babies that large, so Jill can lord that over her, which does make me happy.

[Saylii]

I'm curious, everyone keeps saying that because Jill had a c-section (assuming she did) she won't be having more than 4-5 kids maximum as opposed to 19, but why is that such a certainty? Do women who have had c-sections become less fertile than women who hasn't had any? A quick google suggests that newer research says they don't, at least not due to the procedure, though the underlying causes may be an issue.

I was under the impression that Michelle had several (4?) c-sections in a row but that she just kept going anyway until her body simply refused due to age. If Jill is as drunk on the kool-aid as she appears to be, would she stop at four or five pregnancies, c-section or no? I'm assuming that a doctor or midwife would heavily discourage a woman who'd gone through a c-section or several to have a huge number of children, but if they were confronted with a pregnant woman who refused to abort for any reason and who wouldn't listen to sense about using birth control of any kind in the future, what would they do? Wash their hands of her and refuse care?

Jill could keep giving birth, but if she had been told no more babies for medical reasons by an OB and it was reported to her insurance company, her insurance could refuse to pay for the birth. Or worse, they would only pay for a normal, reasonable birth and any (likely) complications would have to be paid out of pocket.

Jill also could be denied care by a "Cadillac" OB or midwife, but she's still entitled to basic treatment. Because some states require by law that at least one ultrasound has to be performed, it's doubtful that any doctor would just wash their hands of her.

I always got the impression Michelle lasted as long as she did because she didn't have any major complications until Josie. If insurance covered what happened with Jubilee, I guarantee you they probably wouldn't have covered any more attempts. That was probably a major factor in why we never saw 20.

[Wellfleet]

"I don't understand why his mother doesn't have a good talk with him. No mother of sons, like myself, wants to lose her boys to the wife's family completely. Sadly, this seems to be apparently happening to me."

 

Well, I don't know how to put this quote in the box.  Anyway, being the mother of a son who married a girl I adore, I have always stayed out of their business.  I am a daughter in law twice.  First mother in law never minced words that I wasn't good enough for her son and questioned every decision he and I made.  He wanted less and less to do with her. I was too young to understand that we could have been more accepting, but, she made it very hard.  Second mother in law had her issues but I was much nicer about it, and she finally told me she can see her son is happy and that makes her happy.  I took a lesson or two from the two of them regarding the kind of mother in law I want to be.  Smile and nod.  Offer an opinion when asked.  Too many horror stories of awful mothers in law.  Maybe Cathy thinks her best bet of keeping Derrick close is to accept where he is at right now.  I can't imagine sitting my son down for any kind of lecture, etc. no matter how well intentioned.  I don't think it would go my way.  

 

floridamom, I'm sorry about your situation.  It isn't an easy path to navigate.

 

Agree. Plus Cathy has her own issues to deal with right now. She needs to devote her time and energy to getting well and building her strength. There'll be time to talk some sense into Derick later on, if she feels he needs it. It sounds to me like most posters here seem to feel that the Dillards are basically straight-thinkers who are [silently] horrified by the Duggars, but I'm not sure how this conclusion was reached. How do we know that Derick and his family weren't already strongly fundie? Before Derick contacted Boob to be his prayer partner? That they aren't Gothardite is clear - Derick has been educated, has an actual job not working for himself etc - but how we do know they think so differently than the Duggars about other things? As far as I can see, they've pretty much fallen right into line without much quibbling or resistance. I'm just asking - maybe I missed something substantial here.

[truelovekiss]

Amen. My 10.2-pounder was easier to push out than my 8.7-pounder. And I bruised and tore less. And I'm a good four inches shorter than Jill, and not large.

I'm assuming MEchelle didn't have any babies that large, so Jill can lord that over her, which does make me happy.

I'm assuming that we will hear all of the stats on Jchelle's babies on the thrilling special where Izzy is born. If she did have a larger baby, she'll tell us all about it. If not, she'll remind us that she had twins. Twice. And miracle Josie. And 14 other children. And she gave birth to. Every. Single. One.

[GEML]

Some women have complications following a c-sections, but many do not. I don't think we can draw any conclusions about Jill's future fertility or delivery patterns based on one birth.

Derick has been shown driving on the show, so I don't think it's a big deal.

And Joy braiding the hair is simply an act of kindness for someone who has been through the wringer. Almost every woman I know appreciates having her hair cared for when she is tired and worn out, even if she is capable of doing it herself, and with a c-section, Jill may not be.

[Wellfleet]

Does Derrick know how to drive? Why does Jill cart him around? Will she continue to do that with Israel?

 

He's been shown driving on several different occasions on the show. IMO, Jill carts him around because she - maybe both of them - can't bear to be separated.

[Cherrio]

He could, but I can't imagine him doing it intentionally. He lives in a house Jim Bob owns, he's making money off the show and he's married to Jilly Muffin, the Princess of People spreads and the ultimate daddy's girl. If he does something to disgrace the empire, Derick has his wife to contend with.

Lord knows what Jim Bob is capable of, although I see him first and foremost as a coward.  I think he would leave the beat down to his sexually frustrated sons and then probably try and hump Derick at miniature golf?

[Wellfleet]

Lord knows what Jim Bob is capable of, although I see him first and foremost as a coward.  I think he would leave the beat down to his sexually frustrated sons and then probably try and hump Derick at miniature golf?

 

Agree - I couldn't believe how Boob behaved when the boys went on that little rock-climbing outing. Boob set it up to in order to "evaluate" the men his daughters were going to marry, to see whether they had the testosterone needed to join his exalted family. And he ends up looking like one of the world's bigger yellow-bellied weenies.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Wellfleet

[JoanArc]

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2015/04/jill-duggar-c-section-hospital-birth/

 

I think they pulled quotes from this tread. Awesome.

[msblossom]

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2015/04/jill-duggar-c-section-hospital-birth/

 

I think they pulled quotes from this tread. Awesome.

What a stupid online article. It says absolutely nothing.

[cereality]

It's not about whether Jill had complications with the C-section. Even if a C-section goes absolutely perfect, most doctors will tell you you can't have more than 3-5 C-sections max -- I think it's due to uterine weakness/damage even in perfect cases. Now if this C-section was an anomaly for some reason, and Jill is able to come back next yr (which I think they will) and have a vaginal birth and all/most of the births after that are vaginal -- then she can still have the 20 kids she has always dreamed. If they come back next yr OTOH and she has to have another C-section, then it may look like that is the only way she can deliver -- which limits her to 3-5 kids, unless she decides that she wants to go against doctors' wishes and take risks -- which she might but Derick might not, though who knows -- the way he's going,  5 yrs from now, his response to any medical advice may be "we'll pray it away."

 

Hopefully for the sake of Jill's mental health, this section was necessary due to something about this baby -- other than size. Maybe bc he was 2 weeks overdue, there was an effect on his heart rate or her heart rate and/or BP and they needed him out ASAP. But if it's due to something systemtic about how her body gives birth -- like it won't dilate enough no matter what drugs she's given or her pelvis can't fit a 10 pounder (I feel like people's kids' birth weights tend to be fairly consistent -- I've never heard of 10 lb for the first kid but only 6 lb for the rest) -- then she is looking at a smaller family. I'm sure she's coming to grips with it. Michelle was able to have 19 kids bc after the first c section with Jana and JD -- I think she birthed naturally for the next dozen. It's not like she was having a c section yearly.

 

Derick certainly doesn't seem all that hearty -- not that I'm surprised. Saying he's exhausted and doesn't know if it's day or night -- when his kid is 3 days old and still in the hospital? You have nursing help right now, may be able to send the kid to the nursery (or maybe not -- every hospital is different), and Jill's meals are being delivered to her on a tray so he doesn't need to be fetching anything for her. The fun part starts when you get home buddy.

 

Though if he's drinking the Duggar kool-aid, I say go all the way. When they get home, he should step back from the "women's work. I mean Jill's life dream is to birth kids, so she can handle an infant and I'm sure she's having Joy move in any way and probably James as well -- who can't do women's work but can run down to the kitchen to fetch her a snack.

Edited April 10, 2015 by cereality

[SoSueMe]

Derick and Jill are Dillards in name alone at this point. If it looks like a Duggar, and sounds like a Duggar, it's a Duggar. I'm sure in the initial "counseling" sessions with JB and Mullet, DerickDullard had to swear on a stack of dollar bills that he would never keep Jilly Muffin from the beloved spotlight, and that he would contribute to the empire by whatever means necessary.

Speaking of the 'counseling' was it ever shown what the correct (according to JB) answer to the hypothetical car breakdown scenario was ? I remember seeing that going onto debt was absolutely the wrong answer -BEEP- but I missed the right answer.....maybe walk????

[Vaysh]

 

Jill could keep giving birth, but if she had been told no more babies for medical reasons by an OB and it was reported to her insurance company, her insurance could refuse to pay for the birth. Or worse, they would only pay for a normal, reasonable birth and any (likely) complications would have to be paid out of pocket.

Huh. Interesting. I never thought about how having an insurance based health care system could have an effect on your family planning. So, basically if her insurance company says so, she can't have as many children as she wants? (Which in Jill's case is probably a good thing, but still). And if she decides to have them anyway, the hospital will send her the whole bill? What about lay midwives, are they covered by insurance or are they payed directly by their clients?

[msblossom]

Lay midwives would not be covered by insurance.

[ChocolateAddict]

Hi Radar Online! *waves enthusiastically*

[Wellfleet]

Speaking of the 'counseling' was it ever shown what the correct (according to JB) answer to the hypothetical car breakdown scenario was ? I remember seeing that going onto debt was absolutely the wrong answer -BEEP- but I missed the right answer.....maybe walk????

 

IIRC, Derick said he would not go into debt, but he didn't say what he would do. I'm guessing he'd have to bum rides from his FIL - or worse, coworkers - until he had saved enough $$ to have the car repaired/buy a new vehicle. But maybe he'd ride his bike - who knows?

Edited April 10, 2015 by Wellfleet

[sandyskyblue]

I think I have read most of the comments since Israel's birth Monday....this may have been addressed already, and since we do not know all of what happened before Israel made his appearance, this is an assumption on my part....it seems very 'off' to me that Jill went way past her due date and she was not induced....is that a midwife type of thing, to just wait so long for the baby to come?? Was/could it have been Jill's decision to do that??  I would think she would know better than to go so far past her due date just because she wanted to have a home birth so bad, if that is what happened....I think most dr's would have induced her soon after her due date, especially given the size of the baby....I was very happy to see that she and the baby seem just fine, I just wonder how close of a call they were dealing with,,,,do any of you think the public will get the whole (truthful) story on what happened before they got to the hospital??  Any enlightenment/thoughts/ideas on all this would be appreciated!!  

[truelovekiss]

Speaking of the 'counseling' was it ever shown what the correct (according to JB) answer to the hypothetical car breakdown scenario was ? I remember seeing that going onto debt was absolutely the wrong answer -BEEP- but I missed the right answer.....maybe walk????

I have seriously wondered about that so many times. I think ask for love offerings might be an acceptable option for Boob?

[Absolom]

Jill will risk out now for the lay midwife and homebirth.  She's probably not happy about that and having CNM at a minimum and all hospital births.  (That is if she had the section it seems that she did.)

 

She went 12 days was it after the EDD because she went into labor on Sunday.  That is within normal limits with an OB.  The standard is no more than 14 days past.  The EDD is just an estimate not a cut off.  Over 34% of babies are delivered after the EDD.  About 68% are delivered plus or minus 2 weeks of the EDD.  Lay midwives are less pushy for lack of a better word about inductions and Jill seemed to very much want a homebirth.  An induction would have meant a hospital birth and she was still within a normal timeframe to try at home.  Would some OBs have tried to talk her into an earlier induction?  Probably so, but some would also have been willing to listen to her reasons for waiting.  They would have done non-stress testing and a BPP.  So far the Duggars or Dillards haven't said if she had that testing. 

Edited April 11, 2015 by Absolom

[SoSueMe]

IIRC, Derick said he would not go into debt, but he didn't say what he would do. I'm guessing he'd have to bum rides from his FIL - or worse, coworkers - until he had saved enough $$ to have the car repaired/buy a new vehicle. But maybe he'd ride his bike - who knows?

 

 

I have seriously wondered about that so many times. I think ask for love offerings might be an acceptable option for Boob?

Sooooo, JimBob didn't offer a solution, at least on the air. Nice Catch 22 going on there.   

[Wellfleet]

I think I have read most of the comments since Israel's birth Monday....this may have been addressed already, and since we do not know all of what happened before Israel made his appearance, this is an assumption on my part....it seems very 'off' to me that Jill went way past her due date and she was not induced....is that a midwife type of thing, to just wait so long for the baby to come?? Was/could it have been Jill's decision to do that??  I would think she would know better than to go so far past her due date just because she wanted to have a home birth so bad, if that is what happened....I think most dr's would have induced her soon after her due date, especially given the size of the baby....I was very happy to see that she and the baby seem just fine, I just wonder how close of a call they were dealing with,,,,do any of you think the public will get the whole (truthful) story on what happened before they got to the hospital??  Any enlightenment/thoughts/ideas on all this would be appreciated!!  

 

When it comes to the Duggars - unless it directly benefits them - I think we get very little of the whole truth. About anything.

[Fuzzysox]

Oh what if it was Grandma that was courting? That would be fun to watch. Or it could be a Very Famy Engagement Annoucement. Oh who am I kidding they would never give Famy more screen time then they have. Leaves us with a Binessa baby.

[truelovekiss]

Oh what if it was Grandma that was courting? That would be fun to watch. Or it could be a Very Famy Engagement Annoucement. Oh who am I kidding they would never give Famy more screen time then they have. Leaves us with a Binessa baby.

Oh my gosh, YES to Grandma courting! Get Mary a boyfriend and out of the laundry room!

[salvame]

I'll have to tune in here to find out all the birth low down, as I vowed not to watch another show after their last round of support for homophobic politicians, among their other fundie idiocies.

I'm betting all the secrecy and lack of photos is to build hype for the special.

My last grandchild was born at home with midwives in attendance, at 42 weeks, no induction. I don't know what would have happened if the pregnancy went past that, as that seems to be cut off point. Part of the reason woman choose to have a home birth is to have as little intervention as possible. The pregnancy is carefully evaluated by the midwife, who not only has mother and baby's best interest, but is also not going to put her practice in jeopardy by taking on an at risk pregnancy.

At any rate, not ready to ride any idle speculation bus as to what did or did not happen at Jill's birth. They are the ultimate fame whores.

Edited April 11, 2015 by salvame

[abseedee]

are boob and mechelle back?  not sure when this vid was taken but i thought mechelle has been 'helping" jill.

 

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=634557726677880&set=vb.510067475793573&type=2&theater&notif_t=notify_me

[NikSac]

Just a quick comment on the adult braces - I had regular braces for 2 years when I was a teen, and had no idea that meant retainers for life when I was done (at least in my case) at the time. I had the retainers for years before the dog ate them (I know, I know) and so wasn't that worried about it. It took awhile but my teeth eventually shifted back to being really bad again. I think a lot of people end up surprised by the need for the second round of braces as adults. I can see where having the funds and/or insurance available to do it would be very tempting, especially if you're going to be on TV all the time.

[doodlebug]

 

The pregnancy is carefully evaluated by the midwife, who not only has mother and baby's best interest, but is also not going to put her practice in jeopardy by taking on an at risk pregnancy.

Not always.  Amongst other things, many lay midwives don't carry malpractice insurance, so, if something goes wrong, there is not much point in suing because there's no pool of money for the lawyers to go after.  Most lay midwives are not rich and their practices aren't hugely profitable.  Finding a lawyer willing to spend the time and effort building case to file a lawsuit against someone with no major assets and no insurance coverage is nearly impossible unless the plaintiff is willing to pay the lawyer upfront to do it.  One of the main reasons lay midwives don't do hospital births is because they don't carry malpractice coverage and most hospitals require malpractice insurance for all practitioners.  There's also the issue of training and experience and many lay midwives train outside of the traditional medical system and their knowledge of and ability to provide expert advice and care is not the same as that of a nurse midwife or physician.  While lay midwives may have the best of intentions, it doesn't mean that they practice evidence based medicine or are even aware of all the risks or benefits of any specific intervention or non-intervention.  Just as some doctors are quick to intervene by stressing to the patient all the bad things that might happen, many lay midwives push non-intervention while telling the patient that everything will work out fine just because it usually does.

 

For example, going past the due date.  The odds of complications including stillbirth as well as the risk of needing interventions such as a cesarean section rise the further a woman goes past her due date.  The latest research shows that inducing labor at a week past the due date, 41 weeks, is actually less likely to result in poor outcomes as well as less chance of cesarean section than waiting for natural labor.  Therefore, if Jill chose not to intervene at 41 weeks by inducing labor, she was hopefully informed by her midwife that that choice would result in a greater risk of cesarean as well as a greater chance of complications for the baby.  I'm an OB, I've got no problem with allowing the patients to make informed choices, but my experience has been that many lay midwives choose non-intervention for their patients without fully informing them of the pros and cons.

Edited April 11, 2015 by doodlebug

[Mrsjumbo]

I think they would never admit it, but I do think Cathy and Dan are probably secretly happy that they might have less kids. Of course they would never want Jill or Israel to be in danger, but I think Cathy is concerned about her son supporting a mega-family.

I've often wondered about Dan's take on the whole thing. If Derick was a college freshman, Dan would have been in high school when their father died, so after Derick went back to school, it would have just been him and Cathy. Now that Cathy's sick, not only does Derick have obligations to his wife and child, but to his father in law and TLC, leaving Dan (and Cathy's husband) to do most of the visiting and care-taking.

In the quick People video after the article, Derick & Jill said that they are open to adoption because Cathy was adopted. So Jill may get her mega family, csections or not...

[DangerousMinds]

He's been shown driving on several different occasions on the show. IMO, Jill carts him around because she - maybe both of them - can't bear to be separated.

Apparently they can't afford a second car, but can afford braces.

[NikSac]

Apparently they can't afford a second car, but can afford braces.

 

I'm thinking it probably has more to do with dental insurance. I'm assuming he's probably got pretty decent insurance from his job, and depending on how bad his teeth are/were that'd cover braces.

[msblossom]

And better to get braces now before expenses with multiple children add up, even with insurance.

[GEML]

The thing is, we've watched Michelle nod along with the OB and then completely disregard that advice. I don't think that insurance or doctor's advice is going to have any real factor on Jill's decision making unless she wants it to. Women have a right to their own bodies - even if the Duggars would like to take that right away. And the right to get pregnant is a pretty fundamental right.

So unless there was a complication that results in changing her fertility, I don't think we can say ANYTHING about how this will change their plans for the future.

[JoanArc]

Derrick must have Cadillac dental insurance to cover braces. It's darn near impossible to find coverage. Even if you can find it, it's expensive. Wal-Mart might have fantastic insurance. I don't know. I'm sure they can afford it outright, at this point. He really does need to loose the jack-o-lantern look, shave, and gain 15 lbs.

[Saylii]

If the braces are medically necessary, it's possible that it's covered by the medical insurance. If that's the case he's probably going to pay very little this year out of pocket because a pregnancy will almost always have the deductible covered and the c-section will get them over the out-of-pocket maximum.

[DangerousMinds]

The thing is, we've watched Michelle nod along with the OB and then completely disregard that advice. I don't think that insurance or doctor's advice is going to have any real factor on Jill's decision making unless she wants it to. Women have a right to their own bodies - even if the Duggars would like to take that right away. And the right to get pregnant is a pretty fundamental right.

So unless there was a complication that results in changing her fertility, I don't think we can say ANYTHING about how this will change their plans for the future.

The insurance situation might, because they can't go into debt.

[JenCarroll]

Speaking of the 'counseling' was it ever shown what the correct (according to JB) answer to the hypothetical car breakdown scenario was ? I remember seeing that going onto debt was absolutely the wrong answer -BEEP- but I missed the right answer.....maybe walk????

Thank you, I was thinking about this too. Partly because Derick just sounded so childish when he jumped in with that eager, "I wouldn't go into debt!" And then no solution. What exactly are you supposed to do when that happens? I'd probably tell my kids to use a credit card (I know. Evil bad sinful debt). JB probably tells his to pray on it. God will lay the solution on your heart. It irritates me because if this is supposed to be their ministry for the benefit of viewers, shouldn't they actually, you know, try to teach us something? I guess JB tells himself that that's it -- the lesson was "Don't go into debt."

But Jessa and Bin got the best counseling moment: "When you go to kiss, remember to go in at an angle. Because you have noses."

[JenCarroll]

It's not about whether Jill had complications with the C-section. Even if a C-section goes absolutely perfect, most doctors will tell you you can't have more than 3-5 C-sections max -- I think it's due to uterine weakness/damage even in perfect cases. .

The uterine tissue inevitably gets thinner and more fragile each time it's stretched, and c-sections add damage; having any organ sliced open, repeatedly, is unlikely to be beneficial. But -- and this is the reason doctors can sound so militant about it -- eventually if it's too fragile the uterus can rupture, and when that happens the woman bleeds out so fast that she usually can't be saved. When a doc says, "No more kids for you," what s/he means is, "Don't have more children, or you will die." Obviously, how long the uterus holds out varies from woman to woman. But the downside risk, uterine rupture, is so extremely dangerous that it's better to err on the side of caution. Staying alive for your existing children is important, too. I think Derick may be more capable than Jill of taking this on board, and I could see him eventually putting his foot down and insisting on stopping the baby train.

However, I don't think it's accurate that insurance companies can refuse to pay for high-risk pregnancies if the mother has been warned of the risk before getting pregnant. I don't think that would even be legal.

[Saylii]

The uterine tissue inevitably gets thinner and more fragile each time it's stretched, and c-sections add damage; having any organ sliced open, repeatedly, is unlikely to be beneficial. But -- and this is the reason doctors can sound so militant about it -- eventually if it's too fragile the uterus can rupture, and when that happens the woman bleeds out so fast that she usually can't be saved. When a doc says, "No more kids for you," what s/he means is, "Don't have more children, or you will die." Obviously, how long the uterus holds out varies from woman to woman. But the downside risk, uterine rupture, is so extremely dangerous that it's better to err on the side of caution. Staying alive for your existing children is important, too. I think Derick may be more capable than Jill of taking this on board, and I could see him eventually putting his foot down and insisting on stopping the baby train.

However, I don't think it's accurate that insurance companies can refuse to pay for high-risk pregnancies if the mother has been warned of the risk before getting pregnant. I don't think that would even be legal.

I posted it earlier not doing enough research because I had known of one such situation to occur. Apparently the healthcare reform rules changed it so multiple births couldn't be held against the mother anymore as of 2014.

However, it does look like insurances do have the option to make you carry a high risk pregnancy policy whose cost may vary based on risk assessment. Otherwise they will cover just the basic birth costs.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Saylii

[Emme]

As the mother of 2 "whopper" babies I just can't stand Jill's birth-weight-related accolades any more. Lots of women birth big babies. My daughters, now 27 and 29, came out weighing 9.7 and 10.5 respectively. One was a  c-section (though the decision to do that was unrelated to her weight), but I pushed the other out all by myself. Though I do now wish I'd driven to a small town to deliver. Maybe then my daughters would have made me a record-holder! As it was and continues to be,  lots of healthy women have big babies. So sorry Jill ... find another claim to maternal fame.

I know. So annoying. One of the websites was discussing how miraculous the birth was, and what a trooper JillyMuffin was. My first two were 10.5 lbs. and 9.2 lbs. respectively (17 mos. apart). They were big (and beautiful), but I didn't feel like I had done anything more heroic than any other woman giving birth. By the way, a previous neighbor of mine had a baby weighing more than 11 pounds. She was a little thing, normal pregnancy with no expectation the baby would be so large. She set all records at the hospital.

[Emme]

The uterine tissue inevitably gets thinner and more fragile each time it's stretched, and c-sections add damage; having any organ sliced open, repeatedly, is unlikely to be beneficial. But -- and this is the reason doctors can sound so militant about it -- eventually if it's too fragile the uterus can rupture, and when that happens the woman bleeds out so fast that she usually can't be saved. When a doc says, "No more kids for you," what s/he means is, "Don't have more children, or you will die.

Yes. This is exactly what my OB said to me as he was stitching me up after C-section number four. I remember it seemed like it was taking him a long time. He said that my tissue and muscles were very thin, and it was delicate work to stitch.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Emme