Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[GeeGolly]

Miss Balls - Without a Crystal Ball page is public.

[emmawoodhouse]

5 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Miss Balls - Without a Crystal Ball page is public.

Now that you can tell is Anna. She's got the Cindy Lou Who nose going on.

Edited June 5, 2022 by emmawoodhouse

[Tuxcat]

35 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Yeah, I question the spa pic. A little too blonde.

Spa picture has the same watch and shoes though. 

[lookeyloo]

And “hippy dippy” Birkenstocks?  PS I love my Birkenstocks. 

[emmawoodhouse]

9 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

Spa picture has the same watch and shoes though. 

Good catch! 👍

[StaceyNotStacie]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Miss Balls - Without a Crystal Ball page is public.

I know it’s a start, but I hate those light faded jeans. She’d look so much better in darker denim

[floridamom]

I think that's a picture of Jana in the nail salon.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, lookeyloo said:

And “hippy dippy” Birkenstocks?  PS I love my Birkenstocks. 

Joanna Gaines wears Birkenstocks therefore Anna (and Jana, and Jessa) wears Birkenstocks. 

[Scarlett45]

Quote

It sounded like in that woman's deposition about the molestations that everyone in the Fundy community knew about Josh. I believe 17 is the age when most go to Alert, so by Duggar standards Josh was fixed by then. I wouldn't be surprised if JB & M used a cleaned up version of Josh 'mishaps' and 'redemption' in many of their presentations.

Quoting @GeeGolly from the Lonely J's thread.

I have a different take on this, yes the Fundy community may have known about Josh, but  general community members "knowing" is a different thing than JB/Michelle letting Josh out of their sight and he misbehaving in a more public setting to be caught by an authority figure in the community that didnt play that. I think JB had a better understanding of Josh's short comings than Michelle did (not that he may have suspected CSAM conviction in 15+ years) and he did not want to be further embarrassed by him.

That's one of the reasons they married him off to Anna ASAP, they were trying to 1. placate him, 2. control him, because they didnt trust him to not bring further shame upon the family.

[farmgal4]

22 hours ago, BigBingerBro said:

If that’s supposed to be Anna standing at the counter, I don’t think it is.

[Zella]

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression it was well known within the Duggar's local social group but not so much within the national organization. 

Also, he was apparently 17 when he got in trouble for the phone sex stuff, so I don't think the Duggars really would have thought he was fixed at that age. Of course, not that they have a great track record with honesty. LOLOL 

[GeeGolly]

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression it was well known within the Duggar's local social group but not so much within the national organization. 

Also, he was apparently 17 when he got in trouble for the phone sex stuff, so I don't think the Duggars really would have thought he was fixed at that age. Of course, not that they have a great track record with honesty. LOLOL 

This is the first I've heard of Josh and phone sex. I've only known about computer porn during the Holt 'era' and the molestations.

I may be wrong as well, but I got the impression the molestations and the mixed opinions on how to manage/treat/punish Josh spread far and wide and quickly within the Fundy community. 

[Zella]

4 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

This is the first I've heard of Josh and phone sex. I've only known about computer porn during the Holt 'era' and the molestations.

I may be wrong as well, but I got the impression the molestations and the mixed opinions on how to manage/treat/punish Josh spread far and wide and quickly within the Fundy community. 

It was from a Reddit AMA from a former member of their church who was friends with Josh as a teenager. He kept a journal at the time. I don't usually find the AMAs very convincing, but this one seemed pretty legit. He disclosed his real name and included pics of the journal. Basically, Josh was in trouble again because his parents caught him wracking up 20 hours on a phone sex hotline in February 2006, shortly before he turned 18. It was also the first I'd heard about that, but I don't personally doubt its legitimacy. 

[Nysha]

9 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I have a different take on this, yes the Fundy community may have known about Josh, but  general community members "knowing" is a different thing than JB/Michelle letting Josh out of their sight and he misbehaving in a more public setting to be caught by an authority figure in the community that didn't play that. I think JB had a better understanding of Josh's short comings than Michelle did (not that he may have suspected CSAM conviction in 15+ years) and he did not want to be further embarrassed by him.

That's one of the reasons they married him off to Anna ASAP, they were trying to 1. placate him, 2. control him, because they didn't trust him to not bring further shame upon the family.

I agree with this, especially JB understanding Josh's issues. I also think one of the reasons he didn't go to Alert is JB wasn't willing to take a chance that he would confess the entirety of his sexual sins in the guise of  asking for support. Although, it would be more to brag to the other inmates about his sexual experiences. After all, his local church forgave and forgot so why wouldn't that happen at Alert.

[emmawoodhouse]

2 minutes ago, Nysha said:

I agree with this, especially JB understanding Josh's issues. I also think one of the reasons he didn't go to Alert is JB wasn't willing to take a chance that he would confess the entirety of his sexual sins in the guise of  asking for support. Although, it would be more to brag to the other inmates about his sexual experiences. After all, his local church forgave and forgot so why wouldn't that happen at Alert.

I believe the ALERT application has very personal questions about the applicant's sex life (among other things). I imagine this knowledge is used against the cadets as part of the abuse these boys endure for Jesus.

[ginger90]

Here’s the application:

https://alertacademy.com/files/2021/02/alert_application_updated_feb_2021.pdf

[GeeGolly]

2 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Here’s the application:

https://alertacademy.com/files/2021/02/alert_application_updated_feb_2021.pdf

Well, I would say this application could certainly be the reason Josh didn't attend Alert.

[Chicklet]

7 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Well, I would say this application could certainly be the reason Josh didn't attend Alert.

Wait they ask for an insurance card before accepting kids to this nightmare? How many kids even have insurance if they belong to this cult?

And "name the last 2 movies you saw" surely is up there with "have you ever had sex". These people are nuttier than I even imagined.

[GeeGolly]

24 minutes ago, Chicklet said:

Wait they ask for an insurance card before accepting kids to this nightmare? How many kids even have insurance if they belong to this cult?

And "name the last 2 movies you saw" surely is up there with "have you ever had sex". These people are nuttier than I even imagined.

Well I suppose its up there if they answered Debbie Does Dallas and A Clockwork Orgy.

[Chicklet]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Well I suppose its up there if they answered Debbie Does Dallas and A Clockwork Orgy.

But I didn't see "Do you have an OnlyFans account". They really are behind the times.

[DXD526]

This cult is so completely and thoroughly obsessed with anything male. How many times does the word 'man' appear on that application? This is a cootie-free zone, guys, don't worry!!

I like how they ask for information on all siblings, and leave eight spaces for it. Josh would need to include an extra ream of paper with his!

[Future Cat Lady]

This application is so intrusive. Can anyone anwer ''None of your fucking business''?

[Jeeves]

3 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

This application is so intrusive. Can anyone anwer ''None of your fucking business''?

The people who will be completing the application will likely already be big-time IBLP/ATI Kool-aid drinkers, so unlikely to hesitate to spill their guts on demand to TPTB in that cult. 

[the-grey-lady]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Well I suppose its up there if they answered Debbie Does Dallas and A Clockwork Orgy.

I can't believe some of these questions.

The ones in the "extraneous spiritual experiences" section have my jaw hanging open. "List, if any, activities you have been involved in which you consider to be anti-Christian, unbiblical, ungodly, or had satanic involvement"?!

I can't imagine Josh having the stamina to fill out this entire application. And heaven knows he would've had lied like a cheap rug the whole way through.

Edited June 7, 2022 by the-grey-lady

[Jeeves]

Boob required guys to complete a multi-page application before he'd give them permission to court a Duggar daughter. I bet he used material from the ALERT application in that.

IMO it's a mind-control cult. They want to dig deep deep into everyone's head, and leave nothing untouched and private.

OTOH they can be stupendously inept: Exhibit A being all the YEARS that Josh kept on pursuing his secret sleazy (and eventually felonious) pleasures. Before Joshgate and Jesus Jail, and after. He really gamed his parents' control efforts.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Jeeves

[cmr2014]

20 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Here’s the application:

https://alertacademy.com/files/2021/02/alert_application_updated_feb_2021.pdf

I don't believe any of the kids who go to ALERT even see this questionaire. Does anyone think that anyone other than JB answers questions like: Is there harmony and a sense of security in your home?  Explain your father and mothers’ relationship;  Explain your relationship with your parents; Who is the spiritual leader of your home? Has that always been?

I can't imagine being some teenage kid and answering these questions on this form that you know -- 100% -- that your parents will read. What are the chances of answering "Explain your father and mother's relationship" in a way that won't piss off JB.

[woodscommaelle]

‘Do you struggle with your thought life?’

Edited June 8, 2022 by woodscommaelle

[Heathen]

7 minutes ago, woodscommaelle said:

‘Do you struggle with your thought life?’

What does that even mean? 

It's probably fundie-speak for "are you GAY?" 

[FizzyPuff]

19 minutes ago, Heathen said:

It's probably fundie-speak for "are you GAY?" 

Or thinking things you shouldn’t like hey maybe I’m in a cult. 

[Zella]

There is so much about that application that is gross, but the one that really creeped me out was in the personal life section. One of the questions you are required to elaborate on if you answer yes is whether you were ever sexually molested. 

[Heathen]

Just now, Zella said:

There is so much about that application that is gross, but the one that really creeped me out was in the personal life section. One of the questions you are required to elaborate on if you answer yes is whether you were ever sexually molested. 

Voyeurism much? Or do they use same-sex molestation as an excuse to kick someone out? (You know, in case the victim might be *whispers* gay.) 

[woodscommaelle]

Is there a history of Marfan Syndrome?!!?!

This application is fascinating. And horrifying. 

[Heathen]

4 minutes ago, woodscommaelle said:

Is there a history of Marfan Syndrome?!!?!

This application is fascinating. And horrifying. 

I'm betting the Marfan question is strictly liability-related, but they'd come up with some fundie BS reason for it. 

[awaken]

Marfan syndrome of all things?! Why that specifically??

[Heathen]

2 minutes ago, awaken said:

Marfan syndrome of all things?! Why that specifically??

Marfan is noted for causing cardiac issues, including sudden cardiac death. https://www.texasheart.org/heart-health/heart-information-center/topics/marfan-syndrome/

[the-grey-lady]

11 hours ago, Jeeves said:

Boob required guys to complete a multi-page application before he'd give them permission to court a Duggar daughter. I bet he used material from the ALERT application in that.

He required potential suitors to complete an application...but papered over the danger they were in in their own house?

He was so concerned about his daughters being mistreated by depraved sinners...but threw 20-year-old Anna to the wolves?

That is infuriating.

Edited June 8, 2022 by the-grey-lady

[CalicoKitty]

39 minutes ago, awaken said:

Marfan syndrome of all things?! Why that specifically??

I'm just guessing here, but maybe because Marfan often has a cardiac component and they don't want a kid dropping dead during strenuous workouts.  Maybe??  And how would these kids even know, given that they don't go to the doctor regularly, and probably don't know the symptoms?  Is there a Wisdom Book on Marfan??  This is indeed odd.

[merylinkid]

1 hour ago, the-grey-lady said:

He required potential suitors to complete an application...but papered over the danger they were in in their own house?

He was so concerned about his daughters being mistreated by depraved sinners...but threw 20-year-old Anna to the wolves?

That is infuriating.

Oh it wasn't about protecting  the women.   It was about making sure none of the men were capable of challenging his authority.   He wanted husbands who would help him keep the grift train running, without you know, wanting to be in charge themselves.  Of course, in typical Dim Bulb fashion, he screwed that up.    Most of the husbands are pretty much done with him and moving their wives slowly out of his cult.

[GeeGolly]

4 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Oh it wasn't about protecting  the women.   It was about making sure none of the men were capable of challenging his authority.   He wanted husbands who would help him keep the grift train running, without you know, wanting to be in charge themselves.  Of course, in typical Dim Bulb fashion, he screwed that up.    Most of the husbands are pretty much done with him and moving their wives slowly out of his cult.

Maybe moving them out of JB's authority, but one could argue all of the sons in laws still live with somewhat of a cult mentality or at the very least, share many of the cult's beliefs, including practicing their faith with patriarchal control.

[the-grey-lady]

30 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Oh it wasn't about protecting  the women.   It was about making sure none of the men were capable of challenging his authority.

Oh, absolutely. It just angers me more than I can say, how he claims to care so much about protecting them when in reality he ignored real danger and in fact let it fester and get worse.

[emmawoodhouse]

41 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Oh it wasn't about protecting  the women.   It was about making sure none of the men were capable of challenging his authority.   He wanted husbands who would help him keep the grift train running, without you know, wanting to be in charge themselves.  Of course, in typical Dim Bulb fashion, he screwed that up.    Most of the husbands are pretty much done with him and moving their wives slowly out of his cult.

Taking a quick tally, Ben is the only husband still under Boob's thumb. It's true that Derelict and Jeremy wouldn't be where they are today without their wife's money. And that money came from Boob. Credit to Austin for not taking the bait, as far as we know. Their house came from Mary. 

But yeah, still mostly patriarchal, although Derelict has stated that he's not against Jill working.

[GeeGolly]

9 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Taking a quick tally, Ben is the only husband still under Boob's thumb. It's true that Derelict and Jeremy wouldn't be where they are today without their wife's money. And that money came from Boob. Credit to Austin for not taking the bait, as far as we know. Their house came from Mary. 

But yeah, still mostly patriarchal, although Derelict has stated that he's not against Jill working.

How nice of Derick to publicly share he will allow Jill to work.

[emmawoodhouse]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

How nice of Derick to publicly share he will allow Jill to work.

I don't think he worded it that way. He said something to the effect of "If Jill wants to work, that's fine." I don't remember it being sexist at all. Remember, his mother worked full time during his formative years. 

[jacourt]

‘Do you struggle with your thought life?’

These kids never had a thought

[woodscommaelle]

The reason the Marfan question stood out was because it was speculated in the past that maybe Derick was born with it. 

Edited June 8, 2022 by woodscommaelle

[skatelady]

11 hours ago, the-grey-lady said:

He required potential suitors to complete an application...but papered over the danger they were in in their own house?

He was so concerned about his daughters being mistreated by depraved sinners...but threw 20-year-old Anna to the wolves?

That is infuriating.

Was it ever proven that potential suitors had to fill out an application? Or was it (possibly just) a storyline? 

Did Anna have to "apply"? Were females screened for housewifeability, or fertility?

[GeeGolly]

8 minutes ago, skatelady said:

Was it ever proven that potential suitors had to fill out an application? Or was it (possibly just) a storyline? 

Did Anna have to "apply"? Were females screened for housewifeability, or fertility?

I might be making this up, but I think Jeremy posted a pic of himself filling out the suitor questionnaire. 

And no, females weren't screened - because you know - female. They're just expected to step in line with their headships and expected to have working uteruses.

[ginger90]

57 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I might be making this up, but I think Jeremy posted a pic of himself filling out the suitor questionnaire. 

I remember the picture too.

Here’s an article about it, not the picture though:

https://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/jeremy-vuolo-completed-50-page-questionnaire-to-court-jinger/amp/

[the-grey-lady]

Wow, Jim Bob really does think of himself as the King of Shit Mountain, doesn't he? His own little fiefdom where he can rule like a tinpot dictator over his brood of children, their hapless spouses, and their helpless children.

Gross. He nauseates me.

14 hours ago, Heathen said:

It's probably fundie-speak for "are you GAY?" 

They also want to find out if you're having (gasp) sexual fantasies. Gotta stamp those harmless parts of adolescence right out.

[GeeGolly]

49 minutes ago, the-grey-lady said:

Wow, Jim Bob really does think of himself as the King of Shit Mountain, doesn't he? His own little fiefdom where he can rule like a tinpot dictator over his brood of children, their hapless spouses, and their helpless children.

Gross. He nauseates me.

They also want to find out if you're having (gasp) sexual fantasies. Gotta stamp those harmless parts of adolescence right out.

JB wants us to think he is King of the Duggar Kingdom, but as we all know, and as JB let slip during the pre-trial, he is only the Prince or King Consort if you will, to Queen Michelle.

And just so you know, Michelle has told us that sexual urges are perfectly normal. We just can't act upon them until marriage.😁