Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[ZoloftBlob]

My sentiments exactly. Eff 'em. I won't shed Tear One if the network goes down. They had many opportunities to do the right thing and didn't.

 

Exactly This can't have been completely out of the blue for TLC. The rumors have around for ages, and there's absolutely no way the producers and power be didn't have an inkling. Frankly, I would like to see the powers at TLC explain how they cheerfuly displayed a child molester for bucks as an example to America, and also why does TLC consistently promote extremely right wing families?

[fliptopbox]

Stole this from the Gawkr comments.

 

"This is small peanuts compared to what we know now, but it was pretty common knowledge that Josh Duggar frequented strip clubs in Fayetteville when he was 18-19, before he married Anna but after they got they had done more than one Discovery special (I had many friends at UofA at the time, which is where this knowledge comes from). My parents are from Ozarka and have had a few near-encounters with the Duggars, and I get the impression that they are sort of just everywhere in the Springfield/Rogers area nowadays."

 

Wonder how JB & M felt about that? Their precious son's eyes being defrauded by those vile harlot strippers.. Oh, the horror!!! Cos yeah, what male teenager isn't obsessed with seeing naked women? That's what started this whole mess in the first place..

 

Anyway, I am curious to see what other dirt/anecdotes about the Duggars come to light now that this is out in the open. I'm sure Josh's impropriety with his sisters isn't the only creepy thing about them.

[brandyelf]

I know I personally was wondering what Mama June thought.

http://www.thefrisky.com/2015-05-22/mama-june-threatens-to-sue-tlc-for-airing-19-kids-counting-after-duggar-molestation-admission/

[JoanArc]

 

Here's some consolation. Josh is getting bald fast. Not only will he be a fat old man, he'll be a bald AND fat old man. Even God has a sense of humor.

I think with JB, M, and Josh we'll see an 'aged 20 years overnight' happen to their looks. Good.

 

 

My sentiments exactly. Eff 'em. I won't shed Tear One if the network goes down. They had many opportunities to do the right thing and didn't.

If the story has legs, it just might. I hop either scandal will be on every magazine cover. It's a slow weekend. Let it fester.

 

 

This is small peanuts compared to what we know now, but it was pretty common knowledge that Josh Duggar frequented strip clubs in Fayetteville when he was 18-19, before he married Anna but after they got they had done more than one Discovery special

 

Honestly, I'm sure it will come to light that Josh has had sex with a girl Other Than Anna. Either before or after the marriage. He escalated, and escalated, with no real punishment as a teen. That's what happens. It doesn't just stop on it's own.

[truthtalk2014]

Former TLC employees and crew members are encouraged to write Gawker with details of their interactions with the Duggars:  http://defamer.gawker.com/tell-your-duggar-tales-did-michelle-duggar-get-a-gay-c-1706502185

Here is one, where Michelle got a gay crew member fired:

This is literally one of the more interesting stories I have read.  This woman needs to be taken down a few notches - maybe in her bikini.  She is beyond horrible.  

[sandyskyblue]

Since all this hit the fan, I have been reading all the comments on here and I am impressed with the level of knowledge and insight all of you posters have displayed...I, too, wonder about many of things that have been brought up here, especially the ones that relate to the girls: how are they doing, praying that they are not blaming themselves for any of this as none of it was their fault, hoping (against hope, I know) that possibly that there maybe some glimmer of hope that one or more of them can break away from this cult, etc, etc...I also wonder, like the Bill Cosby situation has unfolded, what else may come out now that the dam has been broken....and do we want to know?...my prayers are with the girls...may God bless them and give them strength....

[BitterApple]

Even if they get cancelled by TLC it doesn't mean another network won't pick them up. As callous as it sounds, in six months no one will be thinking about this. They can regroup and continue the show minus Josh.

[becauseIsaidso]

I've never seen any of the Duggar shows, mostly because their worldview, in particular that of relegating women to the category of mindless broodmares, is both abhorrent and disgusting to me, so I had satisfied my curiosity by following this forum.

 

A little while ago, I decided they were not worth even that much notice and unfollowed this forum.

 

It was not until I learned, from a totally unrelated source, about the sexual abuse that has been perpetrated upon the juvenile females of the 'family' that I began following the forum once again.

 

But I was wrong, utterly wrong to give such disgusting and despicable people as the Duggar parents and Josh Duggar even one moment of my time.

 

I sincerely hope the parents and Josh are punished to the full extent of whatever law there may be for whatever crimes they may still be answerable for, although I fear they have conducted themselves in such a manner as to guarantee none of them will have to stand in real earthly judgment for what they have done, and I believe that was deliberately done to protect whomever had a penis.

 

Likewise I fear the females under the control of the parents, as well as those recently married off, will never see one second of justice, of validation, of apology for what they have had to endure. Indeed, I fully expect those females will be expected to bear the full burden of guilt for having forced their poor, perverted brother (and who knows who else, for IMO, the door has been busted wide open on that one) to molest them, and their poor, brain-dead, greedy, narcissistic father to scrambling about to protect his penis-burdened progeny while his scheming partner screams about defaults and Nikes.

 

I live in a state where poverty and ignorance are in abundance, and there are always enough things to face in my real life, to try and /help/fix if I can, or deal with in whatever way I can in good conscience and with the best of intentions to those who seem unable to help themselves, that I cannot see wasting even one more nanosecond  of my life on a couple who has, IMNSHO, clearly, clearly sold their collective souls for the almighty buck.

 

Perhaps the love of money truly IS the root of all evil. In any event, the words 'Duggar', 'amoral' and 'avaricious' will be forever synonymous for me.

 

Goddess bless all of you who have the capacity to be so understanding and forgiving. I think you must be much better people than I can ever hope to be or strive for.

[autumnh]

Oh for goodness sake!

 

Moving forward without Josh is ridiculous..there is no way a person can watch that show (except the fundies) and not think about the horrible act and the victims.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/tlc-dropping-josh-duggar-19-kids-report-article-1.2233122?utm_content=bufferdfa8e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=NYDN+Facebook

 

Just cancel it...especially since Jim Bob & Michelle KNEW what happened and helped to cover it up. I guess I should not be shocked that TLC could care less especially when it means they might lose money.

 

Gah.

Edited May 23, 2015 by autumnh

[BostonBlonde]

IMO there is NO recovery/fixing/rehab for sex offenders. I have not heard of one predator that didn't have MANY victims...usually their entire life's worth. I would NEVER trust him...even with his OWN children, especially his daughters. 

 

Oh for goodness sake!

Moving forward without Josh is ridiculous..there is no way a person can watch that show (except the fundies) and not think about the horrible act and the victims.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/tlc-dropping-josh-duggar-19-kids-report-article-1.2233122?utm_content=bufferdfa8e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=NYDN+Facebook

Just cancel it...especially since Jim Bob & Michelle KNEW what happened and helped to cover it up. I guess I should not be shocked that TLC could care less especially when it means they might lose money.

Gah.

 

 

AMEN!!! I cant even fathom anyone wanting this on tv...for any reason. 

Edited May 23, 2015 by BostonBlonde

[Ljohnson1987]

Standing behind the Duggars is letting the monster win.

[Wellfleet]

It was well written and I can see that scenario happening , but these people sign confidentially agreements that last a long time. So, while it is my hope this person is the first decent person to climb out of the TLC cesspool.....it could also be made up.        Maybe now that the shit has hit the fan crew and former crew will just let it all out because they know they can now.     If TLC starts suing them, it just makes them look worse and they are already in side hug hell.

 

It could be made up, I suppose. Some would-be screenwriter out there maybe. But darn it, it just SOUNDS so believable, doesn't it? Spot-on perfectly believable. Just like I imagine Me-chelle would talk, overreact etc.

[autumnh]

It also appalls me that even after all of this comes out...that the Duggar family would continue to expose their children to this especially with all of the scrutiny and dissecting that would take place.

 

Horrible, horrible people.

[funky-rat]

I'm still 20 pages back and wading through this, but I wanted to share an interesting article that says what many of us are thinking.  I'm a Reconciling Methodist, and that is who published this.  I wanted to share before I lost the link.  It's not inflammatory or anything - just a very sound viewpoint.

http://www.rmnetwork.org/newrmn/four-double-standards-in-the-duggar-scandal/

[NikSac]

I'm guessing the book was from this series which is very religious. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1555130887/ref=pd_aw_sim_14_1?refRID=1X1T48RMHAY4N9SX942Y

 

Ah good find. I was looking but without much luck. So that's probably the book he was reading to the one littlest girl. I suspected just from the police report description that it was for little kids, and looks like that's right - reviewers mention reading it to their 3 and 4 year olds.  I kind of figured Adventure and Princess stories would generally be off limits in Duggar land too, but maybe there are super religious ones I'm just not aware of.

 

I wonder what kind of book that letter was tucked into?

Edited May 23, 2015 by NikSac

[RazzleberryPie]

Honestly, I'm sure it will come to light that Josh has had sex with a girl Other Than Anna. Either before or after the marriage. He escalated, and escalated, with no real punishment as a teen. That's what happens. It doesn't just stop on it's own.

I sort of think that could be the instance, too. Why get so worked up over just some kissing or 2nd base? Also, I've heard church teens justify sex with "in the Bible, when you're betrothed with your parents permission, it's the same as married," and "Adam and Eve weren't married with a ceremony, but vowed in their hearts to God, and that means married more than a ceremony." Josh was "betrothed" at 14 to that girl, so no doubt in my mind something physical went on.

 

I don't buy the strip club stories, though These people have been taught at Rite Aid is evil because it sells alcohol, and gas stations that sell Playboy must be avoided. I don't think he'd set foot in a public strip club, and there would've been someone with a camera phone to document if he did.

[Guest]

but Josh went to work for a "guy they knew in Little Rock who is remodeling a building.

I wonder if it was the same "builder" the clan visited on the first episode of 14 Kids... There was a builder the family went to visit (so they could show the kids how to build the house that, at that time, the clan was building for themselves) and Michelle, Mensa member of the year, used the visit as a "teaching" moment when the contractor used the word "perpendicular." Not that she taught them what the word MEANT, but how to spell it, "p-e-r-p..."

[P2C2E]

Ah good find. I was looking but without much luck. So that's probably the book he was reading to the one littlest girl. I suspected just from the police report description that it was for little kids, and looks like that's right - reviewers mention reading it to their 3 and 4 year olds. I kind of figured Adventure and Princess stories would generally be off limits in Duggar land too, but maybe there are super religious ones I'm just not aware of.

I wonder what kind of book that letter was tucked into?

Sadly, I didn't have to look. I remember those books from my childhood. The Duggars may have gone through different phases of their beliefs and books that were once allowed became banned.

[JoanArc]

 

I don't buy the strip club stories, though These people have been taught at Rite Aid is evil because it sells alcohol, and gas stations that sell Playboy must be avoided. I don't think he'd set foot in a public strip club, and there would've been someone with a camera phone to document if he did.

The alleged strip clubbing happened in '06, you forget there were camera phones, but a lot fewer of them, no real social media like we have today, and smartphones weren't a must-have yet in everyone's pocket (iphone was released in '07). Edit: Josh was still a virtual nobody at this point to anyone outside of his hometown, even with the specials. Plus it sounds like he went to the big city, where he wouldn't have been recognized. Maybe in disguise? Anyway, that's a sketchy theory, but sex finds a way.

 

And alcohol? Josh WILL end up doing drugs or alcohol. Sex has been done to death (how do you top incest?). Once he figures out you can use substances other than food to make pain temporarily go away, well, he's screwed.

Edited May 23, 2015 by JoanArc

[Literata]

I wonder what's happening inside that house right now, and with Josh and Anna and the M-kids. I was going to say I hope they shipped the M-kids off for a little vacation with the Kellers, but given that the Kellers apparently knew about this mess before they handed Anna over, the kids sure don't need to be spending time with them.

I would guess they've hired a professional crisis-communications firm, and there are a whole lot of meetings going on.

If only one of the kids would see this as his or her chance to confide in someone on the outside and get the hell out. I'm looking at you, Jana and Jinger ... although I really fear Jana will be even less likely to want to leave the little ones now. Sigh.

[skippy]

Can anyone tell me why my posts keep disappearing?

[OhioMom]

Cosmo is also running a similar story as TMZ and WP, saying industry insiders are buzzing that the show will go on without josh. Their exact words were the girls are the "cash cows". My stomach turned when I read that. I'm just speculating and basing on my own emotions, but if it were me, I absolutely wouldn't want to continue being on the show after this coming out. I'm sure most of us can agree that the girls are being put on a massive guilt trip that they must continue the show for the family's livelihood. I swear it's taking all I have not to drive to Arkansas and post up outside the house hoping to take the girls away to a much better life.

"Cash cow" is a business term -- for something -- could be anything -- a person, a food, a color, a musical group -- that is generating steady income, and will for some time.  Although it may seem like  a sexist remark to make about the girls, in a business sense, it's pretty vanilla.

[BitterApple]

Literata, I agree the Kellers may not be the lesser of two evils. They married one daughter off to a molestor, another to a gay man and a third to a man who made their daughter and seven grandchildren live in a pop-up camper in the woods. Their judgement is suspect at best.

[silverspoons]

I just don't think TLC is going to cancel the show. Get rid of Josh, Yes, cancel the show, No. I am just as sick looking at Jim Bob and Michelle as I am looking at Josh.

 

What I bet happens is Josh moves back to his recently bought home in Arkansas and as long as the show goes on Jim Bob will give Josh 50k from the show's money to live on, plus maybe help him get a storage rental business or something like it set up (something that generates monthly income but doesn't have Josh's face involved). Josh will really suffer nothing except the loss of maybe a future in politics? His new house, though needs a bit of updating, is nicer then what 80% of Americans live in and he owns it debt free.

 

I do wonder how scripted 19 kids will become or how many takes the kids will have to keep doing of scenes. They will have to be careful of too much religion, purity talk, talk about the past, no reference that Josh exists (when Jessa has her baby will they talk about Josh's kids?). I think the show will be pretty hard to put together but I think TLC will find a way. The extra edits and takes are only going to mean the school aged kids will spend more time acting and even less time on their "homeschool".

[neural-plasticity]

I don't think JB and Michelle will EVER address this issue on TV or be willing to film themselves working through this on television. I know everyone worries about the kids' future, but honestly, I don't support the continuation of this show. Maybe if the kids aren't getting all this attention from being on television and see what having 19 kids is REALLY like, they'd be more willing to lead realistic lives. Sometimes I've felt that Jill and Jessa (and Anna) had all this pressure to be just like Michelle or try to beat Michelle with how many kids they could have. Maybe losing the show will really make them and especially the younger kids (the Howlers and Lost Girls) look at their lives and what they want for themselves in the future a bit differently than they are right now.

[kathe5133]

Can anyone tell me why my posts keep disappearing?

That happened to me yesterday. I think there is a glitch on the boards due to all the traffic.

[JoanArc]

 

"Cash cow" is a business term -- for something -- could be anything -- a person, a food, a color, a musical group -- that is generating steady income, and will for some time.  Although it may seem like  a sexist remark to make about the girls, in a business sense, it's pretty vanilla.

I know it's a generic term, and not sexist. But making money off sexual abuse? Sickening. The girls aren't a business venture. Except to TLC.

 

 

His new house, though needs a bit of updating, is nicer then what 80% of Americans live in and he owns it debt free.

I believe we confirmed there's a mortgage on that house.

Edited May 23, 2015 by JoanArc

[Fuzzysox]

Jana could easily win custody of the kids if the court deems Bobo and Mechelle incompetent if they face any charges (which are unlikely). IDK I'm still sick about it. I don't understand how they followed Gothard and have ruined their family because of it. What Gothard teaches is abuse not love. 

 

And because I have snarked on them for a long time as well as others on this board I do not think they will ever come back to tv after this. They have been picked apart by the internet because of the Boob and Bithcelle's  inaction. People will never see them in a good light again. They are done. Time to open up Duggar Motors again.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[cmr2014]

HappyFatChick posted this a few pages back, and I wanted to re-post it here in case anyone missed it: It is a Parents Guide to Sibling Sexual Abuse:

http://sasian.org/sibling-sexual-abuse-a-parents-guide/

 

Here are some of the factors that may lead to sibling sexual abuse:

- An older sibling, usually a boy, is given too much responsibility
- Neglect
- Lack of sex education
- Children and teens who are not taught in an age-appropriate way about their physical and sexual development are more likely to engage in sexually intrusive behaviour.
- Inadequate socialization
- Children who are not allowed to play with their peers, and teenagers who aren’t allowed to date, dance or socialize outside the home, are more likely to sexually abuse younger siblings.

 

You can see that Josh falls under multiple risk categories. There is one more risk factor that I was mentioned that I wanted to expand on: Children who have witnessed or experienced sexual abuse.

 

While I think it's entirely possible that this is the tip of the iceberg, it's also possible that Josh was not abused and did not witness any abuse himself. He was, however exposed to completely inappropriate sexual models. We have commented over and over about JB and J'chelle's inappropriate sexual behavior around their children. If they enjoyed drinking and told their children over and over and over how great drinking was, and how much fun they were having, but no drinking for the kids until they are married, I don't think any of us would be surprised to discover that Josh had started drinking in secret. 

 

HappyFatChick found this link within 24 hours of the story breaking -- why didn't JB and J'chelle find it? Their lack of willingness to look beyond the confines of the Gothard rule-book (arguably one of the causes of Josh's problems) is on them. Not only have none of the conditions cited above been resolved, but JB and J'chelle's parenting has arguably gotten worse over the past ten years. Not only did they not re-group and make an effort to provide more attention and affection to their children, more opportunities for social interaction, and better education, they just kept popping out kids and passing them off to buddies. I hope I am wrong, but I think there are a lot more skeletons waiting to drop out of this closet.

[mythoughtis]

I would like the show to be cancelled, and no specials for 5 years.  My reasoning is as follows:   Anyone connected to this family in any way or connected to anyone who is connected to this family, or just believed this family is having their own crisis of faith, family, etc.  Everyone needs to be able to work thru that without cameras or hypocrisy.  The Duggar girls/boys need to decide what they believe and who they want to be without scripts.  Same with Derick, Derick's family, Ben, Ben's family, the Ruarks, the crew,  friends/family, co-workers of all of these.  Do you realize how many people may not attend their own church tomorrow because of the Duggar scandal?  Do you realize how many people will cross the street rather than talk to the Ruarks in Ohio? Derick's office co-workers now have another reason to look at him funny, but also question their own beliefs. How many TV watchers have started homeschooling their kids, or changing their own dress code because they believed the Duggars... and now have to re-think all of that. 

 

Please let all of these people go handle their mini-breakdowns in relative privacy without people wanting them to be shining examples of ....something they don't have the energy to be right now. 

Edited May 23, 2015 by mythoughtis

[3 is enough]

Wow. This doesn't appear to be going away any time soon.  I am sure there will be more than a few more revelations coming out.

 

Some random thoughts:

 

How many people think Gil Bates has sat down with each of his older girls and asked them if Josh Duggar ever did anything to make them uncomfortable?  I would imagine a lot of the families the Duggars "fellowshipped" with are trying very hard to remember details of past visits right about now.

 

Michelle:  Vile, vile, vile.  I admit that as a mother, I had a very small amount of sympathy for her just because I can't imagine the sheer hell that comes with  the realization that one of your children could do something so horrific to their siblings.  But after hearing the crew member story, I believe she deserves every ounce of heartbreak that comes her way.

 

Josh:  If he had been convicted he would have had to register as a sex offender.  How I wish that was the case.  And the stripper story rings true to me- in fact, I bet that was the "mistake" that Anna was told about .  I still cannot believe she would have married him if she knew about the molestation.

 

I am worried about the younger kids.  They are already neglected and uneducated.  Without the crew there will the rod be pulled out again?  

 

Huckabee just kissed the White House goodbye.  Not that he ever had a chance, but still...  And I have to wonder if he pulled some strings to get the records destroyed.  According to one article I read they are ususally kept indefinitely.  Some smells VERY fishy.

Edited May 23, 2015 by 3 is enough

[merylinkid]

Referring to the girls as cash cows, no matter how generic the term, this is still a bad use of the term in this context.   Hey, you are already devalued in your own religion.   Now we don't even think of you as a human being but just as a money generator.   Why not just flat out call them hookers?    These girls have been exploited enough by their OWN DAMN FAMILY and by TLC.   Leave them alone.   

 

Fox News has a story on how this is the 5th show that TLC/Discovery has that a molestation scandal has come out.   Umm, not a very good record considering most other channels have ZERO molestation scandals.   At some point, the money train will stop because advertisers will consider the whole channel toxic.   Might be time to consider what is willing to be shown on tv in pursuit of rankings.

 

I've long held that any parent who puts their kid on a reality show, that decision should be considered in a custody decision when the inevitable divorce happens.   Not that any divorces will happen in Duggarland.   Nor will those girls suddenly get "normal" lives if the cameras go away.   If anything, the cameras may have protected them a bit.   Nobody wanted anything really bad to possibly wind up on camera.   And they can edit to finally show the truth when the crew is pissed enough (hello Elliott on Deadliest Catch).     Now with the cameras and outsiders gone, who is going to keep an eye that this family doesn't sweep more stuff under the rug?

 

Not really surprised that Michelle did nothing about this.   Remember when one of her kids fell into the orchestra pit?   Laughed and took pictures.   Kid with his head stuck in the banister -- laughed and took pictures.   Kid lost in the airport?   Never noticed.   Josie seizing?   Not even around.   This is a woman who is too busy proclaiming how great a mom she is to actually parent.   

[Happyfatchick]

I actually think something like that is the most likely outcome. I'm not endorsing it, and no one knows what will happen over the next few months. But as things stand now, this is probably what both TLC and Jim Bob and Michelle are hoping for.

I'd love to think there will be updates (specials - we don't care about the rules and weirdness anymore, just updates). But ONLY if they can leave JB/M out of the contract. I guess if they film the younger ones, JB will still be in on it. Shame. That would definitely be a drawback, as TLC may not be happy about throwing money at JB now. Maybe, as someone suggested, TLC could stipulate money in a trust per individual, based on film time? Maybe they could film at a different location. JB would be there, but never shown, for example. Doing something they like, maybe Silver Dollar. Or the beach. (haw!)

[Avaleigh]

Like Kippy, I've been discussing this my husband as we are parents to a 12 year old boy and a 9 year old girl. What if we found out something like this. We already know he's seen naughty stuff on youtube, we've told him masturbation is normal. Private, but normal. Balance is key. Those pictures are faaaaaaake. In general, he's a kind sensitive kid (whick works against him in 7th grade!). So I posed the hypothetical, what would we do if we found out.

 

First, we'd call his therapist, who is a mandatory reporter. She would get us the information about counseling for the daughter. Then we'd have to sit down with the school. Thankfully, we have a good relationship with his therapist and his teachers. But, I can say, as his mother, I could not banish him from the house. Then again, he would most likely be charged and I would have no choice. But, I could not absent myself from helping him. It would be an incredibly difficult to help both my children, but I would strive to do my best. The hardest thing would be knowing that I couldn't fix it.

 

All of this is to say, I understand why they haven't completely written Josh off. Everything else? Well, that's just beyond the pale enraging. But I can understand not disavowing him entirely when he was 15. Now? As an adult? Hell yeah. But I couldn't do it to my 12 year old. I just couldn't. I also would never, ever, EVER blame my daughter. And I would do everything I could to help her. It would be all around horrible and I hate to think about it.

French Toast, your post brought tears to my eyes. If only these kids had parents as loving, thoughtful, sensible, and responsible as you and your husband.

I'm so troubled by the idea that JB and Michelle likely don't feel that they've done anything wrong and that they are being targeted/persecuted because of their success. Furthermore, I don't even think they realize how horribly they have failed each one of their children wrt this situation.

[EarlGreyTea]

I know I personally was wondering what Mama June thought.

http://www.thefrisky.com/2015-05-22/mama-june-threatens-to-sue-tlc-for-airing-19-kids-counting-after-duggar-molestation-admission/

 

When Mama June is looking at you askance for your actions, you need to re-evaluate your life. And good lord has anyone at TLC ever heard of background checks before casting people?! From here on out they should be doing presidential candidate level of vetting.

 

I wonder what's happening inside that house right now, and with Josh and Anna and the M-kids. I was going to say I hope they shipped the M-kids off for a little vacation with the Kellers, but given that the Kellers apparently knew about this mess before they handed Anna over, the kids sure don't need to be spending time with them.

 

I imagine it's shell-shock. I simply  cannot imagine how Anna feels. Just a few days ago she had a  comfortable home, husband with a stable job he loved, high-rated show, and getting ready for a new baby. It's a LOT for her to process, I'm sure. This whole mess has made an excellent argument for women needing job history and/or marketing skills, even if they don't intend to use them, because you need to prepare for the worst. The person you marry can often be someone you never really knew (I still think Josh really downplayed the molestation to Anna and the Kellers). Without even intending to, the Duggars have just endorsed the idea and importance of women being able to support themselves financially. It reminds me of the Mary Chapin Carpenter song that goes, "Everything is so benign, safest place you'll ever find/God forbid you change your mind"

 

I can imagine Anna just looking at Mackynzie silently right now and just....wondering. Wondering if anything happened with her. I think it's going to come down to Anna having to choose between her husband - who she has been raised to believe is her headship - and her kids, whom she obviously loves deeply. I'm curious to see which will win out. I bet there's a horrific game of tug of war going on in her head.

Edited May 23, 2015 by EarlGreyTea

[BitterApple]

Speaking in hypotheticals I don't know what sort of material the show would cover if it did go on. This entire season has been about their stupid courtship and modesty rules, which are now proven to be a complete joke. Even with the girls' consent I'd doubt they'd discuss the abuse, because yet again, it proves their lifestyle and belief system doesn't work. There's really nothing left.

Edited May 23, 2015 by BitterApple

[3 is enough]

 

Now with the cameras and outsiders gone, who is going to keep an eye that this family doesn't sweep more stuff under the rug?

This is my fear also. As much as I dislike the idea of the show, I think it served as a buffer of sorts.  If it goes, then what will happen?

[NikSac]

I kind of go back and forth on seeing them on TV ever again, but if so I like the idea of specials - preferably few and far between and with NO Josh, Jim Bob, or Michelle. Problem is, given the way Michelle especially makes everything all about her, I don't think they could do it. I truly don't think they could keep her away from the cameras.

 

Edited to add: and even though I know it'd be basically a lie, by specials I was thinking updates on the older girls, how the babies are doing, etc.  I think they'd have to pretty much just play down any of the modesty, courtship rules, and any of the "holier than thou" crap. No one believes it anymore (I hope, anyway).

Edited May 23, 2015 by NikSac

[Porterest]

I've kept up with the reading, but I'm not sure if this has been mentioned.

I'm in Central Arkansas, so naturally our local media is covering this as well. It's been reported both locally and nationally that one of the victims that is still a minor requested for the redacted report to be destroyed. If it's for one of the girls, I cannot blame her, even though it's like putting toothpaste back in the tube afterward.

[silverspoons]

Literata, I agree the Kellers may not be the lesser of two evils. They married one daughter off to a molestor, another to a gay man and a third to a man who made their daughter and seven grandchildren live in a pop-up camper in the woods. Their judgement is suspect at best.

I really wonder if Pa Keller being involved in the ATI prison reform ministry made Anna the perfect catch for Josh. Her father uses ATI/Gothard programs and believes that religion transforms various types of criminals into rehabilitated members of society. If Pa Keller really believes this ATI program works, then Josh was a catch compared to his older daughter living in poverty in a pop up camper and his other daughter with a man who said he didn't really  want a wife.

Remember how in awe Pa Keller was when he visited Anna's home in DC for the first time. He was so excited she had 3-4 bathrooms and was amazed by the size of the master. It was like he only cared that his daughter & grandchildren were taken care of monetarily & didn't worry about Josh's past one bit.

[Rhetorica]

I assumed that the Coogan Bill applied to all television shows and that 15% of the children's earnings was set aside in a trust. But it's only a law in California. So are the Diggers paid as a family unit, or are the children paid separately?

ETA: I'm moving this to the questions thread.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Rhetorica

[WalrusGirl]

We only have Anna's statement, which I would not necessarily believe. She could of not known at all or been told it was a bunch of lies. If she did know prior to marriage, who on earth would marry someone who molested his own sisters?

That's exactly what I was thinking. No woman, or the father of the woman, would ever be ok with this.

Finally caught up an I just... ...

Being married to a creep like that must be 1,000x worse. And then I read Anna's statement and all I could think was, "Lord, I hope she's lying" because what kind of a psycho environment do you have to be living in to have a guy that you just met tell you that he molested his sisters and your reaction is anything other than running fast and far? And the Kellers? They're not off the hook either. How do loving, supportive parents allow (because given the amount of control the parents have over 'courting' you can't blame the girls for these messes) their daughters to marry a molester, a religious fanatic, and a guy who (presumed fabulousness aside) gets to be thanked, on film, for "correcting" his poor wife.

I'm also still desperately trying to catch up, but re what Anna might have really known going in:

Anna was what, 18 or 19, if Josh proposed on her 20th birthday? (I may be misremembering.) Unfortunately it's completely plausible. I have an extended relative who raped several women, denied denied denied, then as it came crumbling down with law enforcement he went in front of his church, weeping and asking forgiveness. And all was forgiven. *rolls eyes* Once he was in jail, his wife was shunned for leaving him and eventually remarrying. And these were standard conservative evangelicals NOT in the south. The four teenage kids landed on dad's side, too. (As did a truly disturbing amount of extended family - only the super-religious ones, mind you - though some were solely on-board with not wanting to say anything that would hurt his elderly mother. And it all went down geographically far away from extended family and before households had the internet (so long before news, etc was available online), so no one was getting the actual news reports; just his elderly father's translation from states away and on the Good Ol' Boys network, no objective info.)

Then a fairly-normal, educated, adult middle-aged woman (as best we can tell) knowingly married him years after he got out. At that point he was back in the small town his family was from, so it was known around there that he served time related to sexual offenses, and by the time they met, archived news stories did pop up at the top of google for his name. So it was easy for any interested party to get a pretty full picture of what he did and admitted to. And she knowingly, voluntarily, no pressure from family or church married him. THAT I don't understand.

So I'm not a fundie expert, but I think that Anna was just raised in the culture where once you ask God's and your church's forgiveness, all is well and it's part of "their testimony." So I can easily see most any past transgression being palatable to her in that context; she was a kid herself, and everyone else she looked to had apparently forgiven and moved on. Whether she knew his exact age (14-15 vs 12-13), that it was ongoing (for over a year) versus one-time and promptly confessed, etc, it seems like it could be any degree of vague knowledge to fairly full disclosure. I do wonder if she's sneaked a look at the police report, and how she's handling that in light of what are probably new details. But I really only have sympathy for Anna for her current options, and fault her parents, especially her father.

[Granny58]

Maybe TLC could go back to being The Learning Channel. Just a thought. 

I'd miss My 600 Pound Life though.  They can keep that one.

[Bella]

I've kept up with the reading, but I'm not sure if this has been mentioned.

I'm in Central Arkansas, so naturally our local media is covering this as well. It's been reported both locally and nationally that one of the victims that is still a minor requested for the redacted report to be destroyed. If it's for one of the girls, I cannot blame her, even though it's like putting toothpaste back in the tube afterward.

 

Yeah, why close the barn door when the horses got out three days ago and have already galloped into the next state?

[humbleopinion]

Does anyone else take comfort that Mama June is watch dogging TLC and the Duggars?

 

If the 19 kids get a special or reinstated and not HoneyBB....there will be h-e-double hockey sticks to pay.

[Jellybeans]

I feel for Josh and Anna's children.

[dillpickles]

https://m.facebook.com/guinn.seewald.1?refsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fguinn.seewald.1&soft=messages

welp, guess ben and his family didnt let the cat out of the bag.

[Swedee]

I hope that deep inside the girls are getting some satisfaction from the fact that finally their parents and Josh are paying for what they did.

They probably are not experiencing any satisfaction at all. All the fallout will likely add to their sense of shame, that this was their fault. The victims are likely feeling more responsible for this mess than JB, Michelle or Josh. Even as an adult, safe from retribution of my family, the thought that our family secret would become public would give me panic attacks.

[3girlsforus]

Wow. Just - wow. This is truly eye-opening. And validating to me to a certain extent as well. My, what delicate little hothouse flowers Boob & Me-chelle were/are. Also puts a whole new spin on that "Behind the Scene" show with the crew. Complete and utter crap. PS - I hope "Jimmy" was sent to work on the The Little Couple production. Now THAT would be fun!

 

I know this sounds weird but I'm terrified for the Little Couple. I didn't like the Duggars but I never expected this. I don't really watch the Little Couple often but they seem grounded, happy, employed and just a great little family. But no family yet has survived the TLC nightmare. I would hate to see them come crashing down.

[Spencer Hastings]

Real question: I'm not a mother so it's easy to say what I would or wouldn't do. I see people saying what Michelle and Jim Bob should have done with Josh, but what would you all do in this situation? Obviously you get everyone help and professional counseling, but where does your son go from there? Does he continue to live with you? Do you send him elsewhere? When is he welcome in the family home again? What were Michelle and Jim Bob supposed to do with their son?

Edited May 23, 2015 by Spencer Hastings