Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[andromeda331]

46 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

Josh's Rehab Church in trouble

 

I wish I could be surprised by that.

[Minivanessa]

51 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

It would be hella entertaining to watch JB get grilled on the stand and very confidently share some info that Josh confided in him because he's sure it exonerates him -- only to have it shredded as patently false under blistering cross examination by the prosecution.  

From your keyboard to God's ears. If Arkansas weren't such a COVID hotspot, I would make the road trip so I could sit in the courtroom, if there was any chance of getting to watch that. But I haven't looked up the current practices of that court as to in-person hearings, trials, etc., so that might not be possible anyway.

[Nysha]

14 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I've seen enough of Josh's behavior as reported over the years, to think that he'd be inclined to passively allow JB a lot of input into his case. But - we do not know if his lawyers (not Travis Story - the REAL defense lawyers) would agree to operate that way. 

I wonder if JB would be willing to lean on Travis Story for information and pass his suggestion through Story? That's one lawyer who doesn't seem very bright or ethical.

[Rootbeer]

27 minutes ago, Nysha said:

I wonder if JB would be willing to lean on Travis Story for information and pass his suggestion through Story? That's one lawyer who doesn't seem very bright or ethical.

Even if he did, I cannot imagine that Josh' REAL lawyers, the ones who know what they're doing, would allow any of it to affect their handling of the case.  I'd expect they'd tell Story to sit down and shut up if he was getting in their way.

[Churchhoney]

3 hours ago, JoanArc said:

Josh's Rehab Church in trouble

 

Never trust a church called "North Love." (or "South Love" or "Reformers Unanimous" either, for that matter.) 

[hathorlive]

2 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

Even if he did, I cannot imagine that Josh' REAL lawyers, the ones who know what they're doing, would allow any of it to affect their handling of the case.  I'd expect they'd tell Story to sit down and shut up if he was getting in their way.

More than likely, Story's only role in the defense is being a member of the Arkansas bar.  I don't think the hired guns are licensed to practice there, so that's why they need a local attorney.  He is probably NOT involved in the day to day activities.

[MaryAnneSpier]

It makes me sad for Josh's siblings to have had their childhoods and young adult life pimped out for all to see and then see that money spent on Josh to get out of even more legal trouble. I wonder if JB and Michelle would be this involved and supportive if any of their offspring, besides the blessed golden boy, were caught in the same situations Josh has? Methinks they wouldn't. 

[GeeGolly]

I think Josh wasn't quite as golden after the molestations. He was still cocky and arrogant, but a think the shininess wore off for JB & M. They quickly pivoted to their Golden Girls. Jana, Jill, Jessa and Jinger were the ones who got all the attention, except when Anna popped out another baby and when the family moved.

I think JB would fight for any of his kids, even Josiah. First because and loves them and second because he has his reputation to protect.

[MaryAnneSpier]

52 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I think Josh wasn't quite as golden after the molestations. He was still cocky and arrogant, but a think the shininess wore off for JB & M. They quickly pivoted to their Golden Girls. Jana, Jill, Jessa and Jinger were the ones who got all the attention, except when Anna popped out another baby and when the family moved.

I think JB would fight for any of his kids, even Josiah. First because and loves them and second because he has his reputation to protect.

I think their "attention" on the girls was purely for the purposes of marketing. They were selling the idea of modest, pretty virgins who solely want to be a wife and mother in a modern world. The oldest girls were the ones who "wrote" a book about courtships. It was merely a profitable angle to work to the public; in private though, I think Josh was viewed by his parents in the same high esteem and privileged position in the family. 

[GeeGolly]

3 hours ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

I think their "attention" on the girls was purely for the purposes of marketing. They were selling the idea of modest, pretty virgins who solely want to be a wife and mother in a modern world. The oldest girls were the ones who "wrote" a book about courtships. It was merely a profitable angle to work to the public; in private though, I think Josh was viewed by his parents in the same high esteem and privileged position in the family. 

That's interesting. I felt there were little peeks here and there, that lead me to believe they couldn't wait for Josh to marry and move out. I got the impression that Josh was the only one who didn't know he was knocked off the pedestal.

The girls on the other hand were shining examples of all of JB's & M's hard work as Fundy parents. The four that would consistently say and do the rights things. I'm not sure their book was profitable, but it helped them push their soul saving agenda.

[ozziemom]

Marrying off Josh solved a few problems for Boob and Meechelle and also started the 200 grandkids parade. Plus Josh became Anna’s responsibility to watch.

[JoanArc]

8 hours ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

I think their "attention" on the girls was purely for the purposes of marketing. They were selling the idea of modest, pretty virgins who solely want to be a wife and mother in a modern world. The oldest girls were the ones who "wrote" a book about courtships. It was merely a profitable angle to work to the public; in private though, I think Josh was viewed by his parents in the same high esteem and privileged position in the family. 

Fwiw The girls book was published before the molestations were public. Not long before, kind of like Jingle’s new book.

Edited August 26, 2021 by JoanArc

[Scarlett45]

13 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I think Josh wasn't quite as golden after the molestations. He was still cocky and arrogant, but a think the shininess wore off for JB & M. They quickly pivoted to their Golden Girls. Jana, Jill, Jessa and Jinger were the ones who got all the attention, except when Anna popped out another baby and when the family moved.

I think JB would fight for any of his kids, even Josiah. First because and loves them and second because he has his reputation to protect.

I think Josh was still golden in the eyes of JB and Michelle until the molestations were made public and the Ashley Madison scandal where he was shipped off to Jesus Jail. At that point his misdeeds were public knowledge and had the ability to hinder their ability to make money. 

Even from the days of the early specials I could tell the older kids did NOT like Josh very much, I thought it was just because he was an arrogant asshole- they were certainly glad to see him gone. 

I think JB and Michelle did know that the oldest four girls RAN the household and nothing could get done without them. Did they appreciate them as much as they should? Maybe not, but they were not exactly ignorant to the work they put in to make the family run. Josh never did anything to help the family as a whole, compared to Jana- Joe, who actually took on leadership roles.

[Tabbygirl521]

On 8/25/2021 at 10:15 AM, JoanArc said:

Josh's Rehab Church in trouble

 

And more evidence of why this fundie cult thinks all families contains sexual deviants. Because they’re surrounded by it. 

[BigBingerBro]

Josh Duggar’s Arrest: Why Jim Bob Duggar May Prevent Josh From Going to Trial

[Lady Jane]

On 8/25/2021 at 11:16 AM, Jeeves said:

From your keyboard to God's ears. If Arkansas weren't such a COVID hotspot, I would make the road trip so I could sit in the courtroom, if there was any chance of getting to watch that. But I haven't looked up the current practices of that court as to in-person hearings, trials, etc., so that might not be possible anyway.

The Constitution requires trials to be speedy and public. There will be some seats allocated to the general public in the gallery. Like the Simpson trial, Casey Anthony, Scott Peterson -- there will likely be a demand for those seats. Unlike those trials though, this is in federal court, so while those were broadcast on TV, the federal judiciary prohibits broadcast. That's why in federal court cases you get those courtroom sketches rather than photos or a broadcast.

On 8/25/2021 at 3:09 PM, hathorlive said:

More than likely, Story's only role in the defense is being a member of the Arkansas bar.  I don't think the hired guns are licensed to practice there, so that's why they need a local attorney.  He is probably NOT involved in the day to day activities.

Yes, they'll need a local AR attorney to associate in with counsel out of state. His out of state lawyers will have filed an application to appear pro hac vice, or temporary authorization to practice in another jurisdiction. The AR lawyer is mostly required just so they have an in-state place where they can be served. The same set of federal rules apply across the country, but there will be local rules and local-local rules that may trip up an out of state attorney, even if they're familiar with federal practice.

TBH, courts and juries also treat out-of-state counsel with a certain disdain. Like "why are you coming to our state and taking work away from this state's lawyers?" (This is also much more likely to be the case in a small jurisdiction. In my experience, judges love to try to trip up the out-of-state counsel, and juries resent them, especially "Big City Lawyers.")

The out-of-state lawyers won't give even the tiniest fuck what JB wants. He can advise his kid all he wants, but at the end of the day, Josh is their client and they can only take direction from him.

I imagine that when JB is called to testify (I assume he will be as the founder of the business and maybe still has a hand in the business) there might be some level of "on the advice of my counsel, I decline to respond on Fifth Amendment grounds" which would be delightful. I have no doubt that if he does that, our intrepid board members will investigate their hearts out, and probably figure out what JB was hiding! 

Oh, last thing. The case will be tried in the Western District of Arkansas court, which pulls jury members from that entire part of the state (in state court they would be pulled from the county). Josh may pull some out-of-towners who have never heard of him and don't give 2 shits about JB/Duggars except for resenting the fact that the Duggars are horrible representatives of their state.

This concludes my Ted Talk on Federal Trial Procedure! (Sorry the law is so f'in boring.)

[Quilt Fairy]

13 minutes ago, Lady Jane said:

The Constitution requires trials to be speedy and public. There will be some seats allocated to the general public in the gallery. Like the Simpson trial, Casey Anthony, Scott Peterson -- there will likely be a demand for those seats. Unlike those trials though, this is in federal court, so while those were broadcast on TV, the federal judiciary prohibits broadcast. That's why in federal court cases you get those courtroom sketches rather than photos or a broadcast.

Are Federal trials still being held via Zoom?  How does that affect the public's ability to observe? 

[Lady Jane]

4 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Are Federal trials still being held via Zoom?  How does that affect the public's ability to observe? 

The defendant's right to a fair "public trial" is satisfied by press and public being allowed in the courtroom to observe. Here are the relevant rules as of today:

 Public access to trial (and motions and blah blah blah): "Effective July 1, 2021, members of the press and public may enter courthouse property, and may observe in-courtroom proceedings subject to the assigned judge’s safety protocols and courtroom capacity limitations.  Some hearings may continue to be held remotely and will be accessible only by teleconference, videoconference, or other remote means." 

Telephonic access has been around since long before I started practice, but each judge can refuse to allow telephonic appearances in their courtroom, unless that would prejudice the defense. Zoom access is new and on the court's site, there are details on each courtroom and Zoom links so you can observe. That's how they addressed "public trial" during Covid.

BUT, while you can observe in person, on the phone, on Zoom: "TAKE NOTE: Persons granted remote access to proceedings are reminded of the general prohibition against photographing, recording, and rebroadcasting of court proceedings (including those held by telephone or videoconference). . . Any recording of a court proceeding held by video or teleconference, including “screen-shots” or other visual copying of a hearing, is absolutely prohibited.  Violation of these prohibitions may result in sanctions, including removal of court-issued media credentials, restricted entry to future hearings, denial of entry to future hearings, or any other sanctions deemed necessary by the court."

So the public can observe, but cannot photo, record, screen-shot etc.

The right to a public trial is how we avoid secret trials, deprivation of Constitutional rights, etc. Think of secret trials in China, DPRK, Russia, etc. 

I can't be the only one who will probably log into Zoom just to see some of the bullshit. I want to see Josh's pasty, terrified mug when he realized those chickens he thought he outsmarted have indeed come home to roost.

Which Duggars do you think will be there in court to "support" Josh, and who do you think will be called to testify?

[quarks]

1 hour ago, Lady Jane said:

Which Duggars do you think will be there in court to "support" Josh, and who do you think will be called to testify?

I don't know if anyone other than Anna and possibly JB and Michelle will show up to "support" Josh. To support Anna, JB and Michelle, maybe, but not Josh.  I mean, here he is, facing federal trial, and there most of the adult Duggarlings are, cheerfully telling everyone on Instagram/YouTube just how great life is right now, what with Dodgers games and amateur softball and Vegas shopping and cute babies and six month anniversaries and whatever, with an obvious and distinct lack of "pray for us in this difficult time." 

In terms of getting called to testify - I'm guessing whichever Duggarlings were employed at the car lot during the investigation? 

[crazy8s]

So no one is thinking a parade of all duggar siblings, with spouses, and the grands filing into court behind JB and Michelle, in matching outfits and in birth order to support JoshUa??

the idea of that just makes me laugh

Edited August 30, 2021 by crazy8s

[all fall down]

Didn't Jill and Amy supposedly attend some of the first court appearances? I wouldn't be surprised if some of the siblings attend, especially the older girls. Or maybe Jill & Amy on their own, and then someone else to represent the family that is still under JB's authority. 

[emmawoodhouse]

11 minutes ago, christine falls said:

Didn't Jill and Amy supposedly attend some of the first court appearances? I wouldn't be surprised if some of the siblings attend, especially the older girls. Or maybe Jill & Amy on their own, and then someone else to represent the family that is still under JB's authority. 

The hearing was all done virtually. I know Famy watched via Zoom. Not sure about Jill.

[MsJamieDornan]

13 hours ago, Lady Jane said:

The out-of-state lawyers won't give even the tiniest fuck what JB wants. He can advise his kid all he wants, but at the end of the day, Josh is their client and they can only take direction from him.

 

But, we know that JBoob cant keep his big mouth shut or his nose out of the whole thing.

[GeeGolly]

90 days until the court case and I'm assuming M7 will arrive sometime in the next 60 days, but my guess is in the next 30. I wonder if Anna is planning on delivering at the Rebers. I can't imagine she wouldn't. I can see her waking up in the middle of the night and riding over with Michelle and Jana.

[MargeGunderson]

She’s had six births, she should know by now that Josh doesn’t care if he’s there or not.

[Lisa418722]

19 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

She’s had six births, she should know by now that Josh doesn’t care if he’s there or not.

I think this time he will pretend to be the dutiful father who is oh so concerned about Anna and M7.  He might think this would look good to the attorneys and the judge.   

[libgirl2]

12 minutes ago, Lisa418722 said:

I think this time he will pretend to be the dutiful father who is oh so concerned about Anna and M7.  He might think this would look good to the attorneys and the judge.   

I totally agree.

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, MargeGunderson said:

She’s had six births, she should know by now that Josh doesn’t care if he’s there or not.

No doubt Anna knows, but she probably would like him there.

[BetyBee]

6 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

90 days until the court case and I'm assuming M7 will arrive sometime in the next 60 days, but my guess is in the next 30. I wonder if Anna is planning on delivering at the Rebers. I can't imagine she wouldn't. I can see her waking up in the middle of the night and riding over with Michelle and Jana.

I wonder how many bathrooms the Rebers have? I can just see Mr. Reber getting up to pee in the middle of the night and having to hold it because Anna's busily giving birth on the toilet! While Josh sleeps, blissfully unaware of the miracle.

[BigBingerBro]

30 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

because Anna's busily giving birth on the toilet!

Well if Sex Pest does wind up being sent to prison and she needs money, she could always write a "How to Successfully have a Toilet Birth" book!

[zoomama]

7 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

90 days until the court case and I'm assuming M7 will arrive sometime in the next 60 days, but my guess is in the next 30. I wonder if Anna is planning on delivering at the Rebers. I can't imagine she wouldn't. I can see her waking up in the middle of the night and riding over with Michelle and Jana.

for some reason, i have long understood that the birth of M7 would be around my birthday late in august. i dont remember why i think that, i guess it was the time frame predicted in the early days and i used my birthday to associate the timing. 

[GeeGolly]

2 hours ago, zoomama said:

for some reason, i have long understood that the birth of M7 would be around my birthday late in august. i dont remember why i think that, i guess it was the time frame predicted in the early days and i used my birthday to associate the timing. 

I think most of us were surprised when Anna said she was due in the Fall, because she was showing at Henry's birthday. I wouldn't be shocked if it was any day now.

Happy Belated Birthday!

[Westiepeach]

Do you think they would publicly announce the birth of poor little M7? Surely that will stir up the whole current paternal background situation…

[lookeyloo]

Maybe M7 is already on the scene.

[GeeGolly]

16 minutes ago, Westiepeach said:

Do you think they would publicly announce the birth of poor little M7? Surely that will stir up the whole current paternal background situation…

Anna made no mention of Meredith until she was 3 weeks old, and I believe she was born a few months after the last scandal, so I'm not sure anyone will mention M7. Maybe we'll hear a report of Anna Duggar and her newborn visiting Josh at the Rebers.

[Tikichick]

On 8/29/2021 at 1:51 PM, BigBingerBro said:

Josh Duggar’s Arrest: Why Jim Bob Duggar May Prevent Josh From Going to Trial

The reasoning in the article is entirely plausible.

Bottom line, the only one who will make the call about going to trial or not, no matter what kind of pressure and advice will be given will be Josh.  Smartest move is to follow precisely what his lead attorney recommends because it's the one place he's guaranteed to receive informed and knowledgeable counsel from someone with no other agenda than achieving the optimal outcome.  

[Churchhoney]

28 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Smartest move is to follow precisely what his lead attorney recommends because it's the one place he's guaranteed to receive informed and knowledgeable counsel from someone with no other agenda than achieving the optimal outcome.  

I feel I know so little about Josh that I have absolutely no idea whether he is now or has ever been a person who would do that or whether he's a person who's delusional, basing his decisions on some stupid image that's inside his own head. 

 

[Absolom]

45 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Bottom line, the only one who will make the call about going to trial or not, no matter what kind of pressure and advice will be given will be Josh. 

It will be Josh's decision, but if JB cuts off the money, Josh might end up going to trial with a different legal team or changing his mind.

[Nysha]

I think eating, acting on his perversions, and taking the FRC job are the only decisions Sex Pest has made since he got married. I also don't think he's stupid, so I'm pretty sure he'll do whatever the lawyers say to keep himself out of prison.

[hathorlive]

On 8/30/2021 at 5:26 PM, quarks said:

I don't know if anyone other than Anna and possibly JB and Michelle will show up to "support" Josh. To support Anna, JB and Michelle, maybe, but not Josh.  I mean, here he is, facing federal trial, and there most of the adult Duggarlings are, cheerfully telling everyone on Instagram/YouTube just how great life is right now, what with Dodgers games and amateur softball and Vegas shopping and cute babies and six month anniversaries and whatever, with an obvious and distinct lack of "pray for us in this difficult time." 

One of the last CP trials I had, the suspect was one of 9 kids.  The court was filled with his family, including young nieces and nephews.  His minister showed up and testified about what a good Christian he was, and how often he went to church.  So, yes, there will be pressure on the kidadults to show up and support him.

[JoanArc]

57 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

One of the last CP trials I had, the suspect was one of 9 kids.  The court was filled with his family, including young nieces and nephews.  His minister showed up and testified about what a good Christian he was, and how often he went to church.  So, yes, there will be pressure on the kidadults to show up and support him.

 Josh and Jim Bob are both dumb enough to think this will work. It worked for many, many years in the court of public opinion. 

[SMama]

1 hour ago, hathorlive said:

One of the last CP trials I had, the suspect was one of 9 kids.  The court was filled with his family, including young nieces and nephews.  His minister showed up and testified about what a good Christian he was, and how often he went to church.  So, yes, there will be pressure on the kidadults to show up and support him.

Was the suspect convicted?

[hathorlive]

1 hour ago, SMama said:

Was the suspect convicted?

He was sentenced to 13 years in Federal court.  And as we've discussed previously, that's a pretty good sentence.  They always want to show the court/jury that a suspect has family support, so they can get back on the righteous path.  Ahem.

[Future Cat Lady]

3 hours ago, hathorlive said:

One of the last CP trials I had, the suspect was one of 9 kids.  The court was filled with his family, including young nieces and nephews.  His minister showed up and testified about what a good Christian he was, and how often he went to church.  So, yes, there will be pressure on the kidadults to show up and support him.

As if going to church makes you a good person…

I totally agree that the lawyers will want the family to be present to make a good impression. What will be interesting is to see who will not show up.

[quarks]

3 hours ago, hathorlive said:

One of the last CP trials I had, the suspect was one of 9 kids.  The court was filled with his family, including young nieces and nephews.  His minister showed up and testified about what a good Christian he was, and how often he went to church.  So, yes, there will be pressure on the kidadults to show up and support him.

I guess my question is, were those family members previously living it up on Instagram/elsewhere, or supporting the suspect?

I think it's quite possible that JB and Michelle may be able to drag at least some of the kids still living in the main house along to the trial. And Anna may be able to bring some or all of her kids along. And it's possible that one or two of the adult Duggarlings might show up to support their parents or Anna - or, in the case of Jill, at least, show up to see justice done. And it's also quite possible that JB and Michelle may use all of the powers at their command (financial pressure and guilt trips) to get as many of the adult Duggarlings to show up as they can.

But as of right now, at least, the adult Duggarlings with social media accounts do not appear to supporting Josh at all. Quite the opposite. 

[SMama]

1 hour ago, hathorlive said:

He was sentenced to 13 years in Federal court.  And as we've discussed previously, that's a pretty good sentence.  They always want to show the court/jury that a suspect has family support, so they can get back on the righteous path.  Ahem.

Hopefully there’s hope the pervert will pay. A while back Jill posted about justice taking time but it would happen not on our time. I thought she was referring to the pervert. 

I think it’s abhorrent to bring minors to that type of trial, actually, any trial. I truly hope it’s not permitted and that Anna is not that stupid. But we know she is.

Pure speculation, I wonder who among the kidults is likely to (begrudgingly) show to support the pervert. 

[Rabbittron]

Remember that there is no way in hell that Smuggar will accept a plea deal.  He is the golden child who thinks he is made out of Teflon nothing will stick to him because he didn't do anything wrong. 

[Love2dance]

Happy birthday, @zoomama! 🎉🎂🎊💐

 

 

[Absolom]

8 hours ago, Rabbittron said:

Remember that there is no way in hell that Smuggar will accept a plea deal.  He is the golden child who thinks he is made out of Teflon nothing will stick to him because he didn't do anything wrong. 

If he refuses a plea deal, may he get a few more years on his sentence by going to trial.  I'm fine with that.

[iwantcookies]

https://people.com/tv/duggar-family-not-as-close-as-they-once-were-amid-josh-legal-drama-source/

 

the source is Amy or Dereck?

Edited September 1, 2021 by iwantcookies