Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Zella]

I also wouldn't be surprised if many of them wouldn't report because, quite frankly, they have enough skeletons in their own family's closet to not want anyone poking around too much. 

[3 is enough]

In hindsight, it was very telling that Josh did all of those things that made him look nasty while he knew the cameras were rolling.  Most people would at least make an effort to avoid looking bad on tv.  He just didn’t give a shit.  

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, 3 is enough said:

In hindsight, it was very telling that Josh did all of those things that made him look nasty while he knew the cameras were rolling.  Most people would at least make an effort to avoid looking bad on tv.  He just didn’t give a shit.  

Or his thinking is so fucked up, he wasn't thinking it made him look bad.

[ginger90]

The nameless birthday boy is Marcus:

[merylinkid]

On 6/1/2021 at 4:47 PM, Normades said:

Yes, but that seems like a huge conflict.  I can't see a judge being on cases so closely related.  It doesn't seem right to me. 

Judges do it all the time.   How many judges are assigned to that Federal Court in Arkansas?   I'm thinking not a whole hell of a lot.    There may not BE any other Judge to hear the case.   

Also the judge handling the preliminaries for Josh's case might not be the one handling the actual trial.    

[ginger90]

Unless Josh’s trial date is changed, his will be first, then the sisters.

[hathorlive]

1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

Unless Josh’s trial date is changed, his will be first, then the sisters.

I thought the sisters' case had been rejected multiple times.  How did they get it into federal court?

[Tikichick]

8 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

In hindsight, it was very telling that Josh did all of those things that made him look nasty while he knew the cameras were rolling.  Most people would at least make an effort to avoid looking bad on tv.  He just didn’t give a shit.  

There's a good possibility it was either part of the thrill for him or a gradual baby step towards the idea that he could eventually normalize what he wanted in the eyes of others and not have to take such pains to hide it all anymore.

[rue721]

2 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

There's a good possibility it was either part of the thrill for him or a gradual baby step towards the idea that he could eventually normalize what he wanted in the eyes of others and not have to take such pains to hide it all anymore.

Yeah, he probably got a thrill out of publicly degrading her. 

[Rootbeer]

40 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

I thought the sisters' case had been rejected multiple times.  How did they get it into federal court?

I believe that several of the defendants, mainly city employees, were dismissed from the case; but the cases of several other defendants are still active.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/celebrity/trial-rescheduled-for-duggar-sisters-lawsuit-against-springdale-washington-county/ar-AAKdfL5#:~:text=In May of 2017%2C Jill Dillard%2C Jessa Seewald%2C,female in 2002 and 2003%2C court documents state.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Rootbeer

[Heathen]

8 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Or his thinking is so fucked up, he wasn't thinking it made him look bad.

Or he did it because his parents taught him to debase himself for a paycheck. It's scripted. It's edited. It does not reflect reality -- does anybody here really think Mullet was a wonderful mother to the J'slaves, the way the show pretended she was? 

[Panopticon]

19 hours ago, ginger90 said:

I remember it was Josh, Anna, John David,  and Jana going to a movie. I think Josh referred to it as a double date, and referenced it being Arkansas. 

 

There’s been a lot of discussion, over the years but especially lately, about how Jana/JD appear to be genuinely close and appear to really dislike Josh. That comment by Josh makes me think either the feeling is mutual... or was just one more time Josh thought it would be fun to publicly embarrass the twins and the twins added it to their mental list of reasons to dislike Josh. 

[GeeGolly]

29 minutes ago, Heathen said:

Or he did it because his parents taught him to debase himself for a paycheck. It's scripted. It's edited. It does not reflect reality -- does anybody here really think Mullet was a wonderful mother to the J'slaves, the way the show pretended she was? 

I'm trying to remember a show that made Michelle look like a good mother to the older girls. I can't really recall one. I remember a lot of Gothard/Michelle lines being repeated throughout the years that some could interpret a being a good mother, but in most of the shows, other than the very early specials, Michelle barely interacts with any of her children.

[Heathen]

3 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm trying to remember a show that made Michelle look like a good mother to the older girls. I can't really recall one. I remember a lot of Gothard/Michelle lines being repeated throughout the years that some could interpret a being a good mother, but in most of the shows, other than the very early specials, Michelle barely interacts with any of her children.

Mullet has been portrayed on the show as the Great Holy Mother since day one. It's total bull since it was obvious from the start that her daughters were raising the other kids, but that hasn't stopped the show(s) from acting like Mullet was a saint. 

[Tikichick]

3 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm trying to remember a show that made Michelle look like a good mother to the older girls. I can't really recall one. I remember a lot of Gothard/Michelle lines being repeated throughout the years that some could interpret a being a good mother, but in most of the shows, other than the very early specials, Michelle barely interacts with any of her children.

Probably the closest storyline was that she was teaching the older girls homemaking skills.

Clearly she did a bang up job.

[Minivanessa]

2 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Probably the closest storyline was that she was teaching the older girls homemaking skills.

Clearly she did a bang up job.

I think the editing monkeys had fun on that issue. The scripts had plenty of THs praising Mother of the Year Michelle, and she got lots of face time to yammer in her soft little public voice about all her beliefs about how to raise children. And IIRC there were ALSO plenty of scenes of the howlers running amok, and the Jslaves talking about all their household jurisdictions, etc.

I remember a video on YouTube - maybe a clip from an episode? - in which Michelle was talking to the camera but completely unable to get through it because she absolutely could not manage two of her toddlers who were squirming and talking. It was unintentionally hilarious MOTY footage. 

[Scarlett45]

48 minutes ago, Panopticon said:

There’s been a lot of discussion, over the years but especially lately, about how Jana/JD appear to be genuinely close and appear to really dislike Josh. That comment by Josh makes me think either the feeling is mutual... or was just one more time Josh thought it would be fun to publicly embarrass the twins and the twins added it to their mental list of reasons to dislike Josh. 

Oh I am sure the twins have disliked Josh for many legitimate reasons over the years, and were probably not eager to hide that fact. Josh probably disliked the twins because unlike the younger kids they had no motivation to kiss his buttocks, and likely stood up to him when he was being awful to the little ones. The next kid after the twins is Jill, and Jill, while a loving and nurturing caregiver to her buddies, probably feared Josh and wanted to defer to him as an older brother. We can see that Josh took advantage of her trust.

Yes Josh is older, but only by a year and a half, and Jana/JD have the advantage of being a team- a year and a half age difference is not usually anything regarding the power dynamics of a family. Jana also had a lot of power as the eldest daughter, and she has used her power for "good", Josh used his to be a terror.

[BitterApple]

 I absolutely can see Jana and JD hating Josh. Even though JD didn't have the responsibilities of home and child care, I think he did a lot of labor for the various Duggar businesses. He has a CDL and heavy equipment operator's license, so he definitely didn't have the privilege of sitting around and fiddling with computers all day the way Josh did. Josh was the Golden Child, he knew it and lorded it over his siblings.

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by BitterApple

[GeeGolly]

3 hours ago, Heathen said:

Mullet has been portrayed on the show as the Great Holy Mother since day one. It's total bull since it was obvious from the start that her daughters were raising the other kids, but that hasn't stopped the show(s) from acting like Mullet was a saint. 

I get what you're saying, but much of what I remember is Michelle touting her way was great and she was great. I remember the girls repeating lines here and there like, mom will always make time to listen to our hearts, mom always steers us back to the Bible, etc. But I never saw Michelle doing any MOTY type of things on the show. And I actually saw many times when Michelle was shown to be very cultish and almost empty beyond spouting the same Gothard shit over and over again.

I believe JB & M love the way they come off on the show, and I'm sure TLC did sometimes edit them to look good, but I've also seen many edits where neither parent look that great.

Like when a young one comes and asks Michelle for something and she tells them "go find your buddy", Michelle telling a young one that the world doesn't revolve around them with her finger pointed in their face, Michelle practically ignoring a kid as she fed her, as she laid on a couch, Michelle losing a kid at the airport and not giving a shit, Michelle laughing when her daughter had her head stuck in a railing, Michelle whispering in a crying or misbehaving kid's ear and suddenly they stop, Michelle filming her kid who fell off a stage while the siblings rush in to help, the family preparing for trips and Michelle is no where to be found, Michelle practically flipping out because her 4 year old's sweater slipped and her shoulder was showing, or flipping out because her daughter held hands with her soon to be fiancé, during prayer, Michelle's panicked look when she thought Miss Cathy was referring to the Pearls, etc.

There's more, but other than Michelle tooting her own horn, I really can't remember seeing her actually doing much mothering at all.

Again, I agree TLC started out with the intention of presenting wonder parents and wonder kids, but you can't show what isn't there.

Edited June 3, 2021 by GeeGolly

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I get what you're saying, but much of what I remember is Michelle touting her way was great and she was great. I remember the girls repeating lines here and there like, mom will always make time to listen to our hearts, mom always steers us back to the Bible, etc. But I never saw Michelle doing any MOTY type of things on the show. And I actually saw many times when Michelle was shown to be very cultish and almost empty beyond spouting the same Gothard shit over and over again.

I believe JB & M love the way they come off on the show, and I'm sure TLC did sometimes edit them to look good, but I've also seen many edits where neither parent look that great.

Like when a young one comes and asks Michelle for something and she tells them "go find your buddy", Michelle telling a young one that the world doesn't revolve around them with her finger pointed in their face, Michelle practically ignoring a kid as she fed her, as she laid on a couch, Michelle losing a kid at the airport and not giving a shit, Michelle laughing when her daughter had her head stuck in a railing, Michelle whispering in a crying or misbehaving kid's ear and suddenly they stop, Michelle filming her kid who fell off a stage while the siblings rush in to help, the family preparing for trips and Michelle is no where to be found, Michelle practically flipping out because her 4 year old's sweater slipped and her shoulder was showing, or flipping out because her daughter held hands with her soon to be fiancé, during prayer, Michelle's panicked look when she thought Miss Cathy was referring to the Pearls, etc.

There's more, but other than Michelle tooting her own horn, I really can't remember seeing her actually doing much mothering at all.

Again, I agree TLC started out with the intention of presenting wonder parents and wonder kids, but you can't show what isn't there.

Oh, they definitely think their coming off great. Michelle had no problem saying she hands off her babies at six months. Anyone with any self awareness or even awareness of how she'd come off wouldn't say anything like that. Nor would any parent do that interview with Megyn Kelly and insist  everything they did was correct.   

[emmawoodhouse]

This video is so gross knowing what we know now. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPrEHyeghCn/?utm_medium=copy_link

[JoanArc]

2 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

This video is so gross knowing what we know now. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPrEHyeghCn/?utm_medium=copy_link

One of the 'rules' was no siblings on laps. He had a kid in his lap on the last 19KAC episode, too.  Jesus Christ is he repugnant.

[madpsych78]

2 hours ago, JoanArc said:

One of the 'rules' was no siblings on laps. He had a kid in his lap on the last 19KAC episode, too.  Jesus Christ is he repugnant.

Oh good Lort!

[LilJen]

On 6/3/2021 at 6:26 PM, JoanArc said:

One of the 'rules' was no siblings on laps. He had a kid in his lap on the last 19KAC episode, too.  Jesus Christ is he repugnant.

Yes, but don’t you see? He got married and thus righteously fulfilled so he would not EVER want to fondle children or watch children being abused, ever! He got married and is having THE SEX and so siblings on laps = perfectly fine. 😙

[BigBingerBro]

I don't follow any of these people on social media.  Has Anna posted anything since the lastest Pest scandal?

[ginger90]

48 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

I don't follow any of these people on social media.  Has Anna posted anything since the lastest Pest scandal?

She hasn’t posted anything on Instagram since April 24th. I don’t know about anywhere else.

[lascuba]

On 6/4/2021 at 6:55 PM, LilJen said:

Yes, but don’t you see? He got married and thus righteously fulfilled so he would not EVER want to fondle children or watch children being abused, ever! He got married and is having THE SEX and so siblings on laps = perfectly fine. 😙

I never made this connection and my mind is blown. I figured that JB and Michelle were just lying about the (useless) rules they made to prevent abuse, but that wasn't it. They had that rule, but it stopped being necessary for Josh once he married. Which is so much worse than if they had lied.

 

[Turquoise]

Posted by floridamom on JD/Abbie:
I believe Anna went to the car lot early on because she didn't know what to do with herself alone at home, much like Jill who clung to Derick at Walmart corporate. No life skills for these undereducated, under experienced brides.

 

I think that may be part of it, but given what we know now I also suspect Anna was there to make sure ol' Joshie stayed off the computer. 

[Kellyee]

Quote

Probably the closest storyline was that she was teaching the older girls homemaking skills.

Michelle made her daughters cook lunch and dinner for at least 16 people at a time, every single day. I can't imagine that being my daily job at 12 years old. I wonder what poor Mackenzie is forced to be responsible for as Anna's oldest daughter. She does seem to be holding Maryella in quite a few pictures that are posted to social media. The daily chores for these large families have to be constant and never-ending.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GeeGolly]

I remember Michelle teaching the girls how to make homemade laundry soap, do self perms and make bread. Other than the tatertot casserole, I don't remember a lot of cooking lessons or cooking going on. Well, except for Michelle making eggs.

I'm sure they ate, but I'm guessing it was a lot of lazy and easy meals.

[MargeGunderson]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

I remember Michelle teaching the girls how to make homemade laundry soap, do self perms and make bread. Other than the tatertot casserole, I don't remember a lot of cooking lessons or cooking going on. Well, except for Michelle making eggs.

I'm sure they ate, but I'm guessing it was a lot of lazy and easy meals.

They had a lot to choose from - cold green beans straight from a can, instant oatmeal with cold water, canned tuna with BBQ sauce, pickles….

[Westiepeach]

17 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Well, except for Michelle making eggs.

Egg. Singular. Michie made ONE EGG.

[Zella]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm sure they ate, but I'm guessing it was a lot of lazy and easy meals.

Yeah I think it's a vicious cycle wherein they didn't learn how to actually cook, but they were overwhelmed with what was expected of them, both because they couldn't cook and because they were expected to feed so many people on the regular, so they relied on a lot of quick meals that they could feed in bulk. And once they leave home, they just tend to make the same meals because they don't know any better. 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Zella

[crazy8s]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm sure they ate, but I'm guessing it was a lot of lazy and easy meals.

Stouffer's lasagna was shown several times it seems.

[Hockey Addict]

Anna even if no sentence has been made yet has to be beside herself. Her blessing canal might be permanently out of business so now her purpose is taken from her too 

[Hockey Addict]

In the world they come from fertility is status it seems. She has bigger issues to focus on but I think she still believes he will come home without a doubt. Unless she was under a different name she was not at the zoom for the bond hearing correct?

[Nysha]

What's the chances of the trial being delayed past July? My ex-son-in-law just pled guilty to an assault charge where the first court date was almost 2 years ago. His lawyer filed for continuances, COVID happened, and the county went through 2 prosecutors.

If Josh's trial is delayed until after the baby is born I can see Anna having her next one 10-11 months after this one just to make sure she gets as many babies as she can before Josh goes away for 10 years.

[coconspirator]

23 minutes ago, Nysha said:

What's the chances of the trial being delayed past July? My ex-son-in-law just pled guilty to an assault charge where the first court date was almost 2 years ago. His lawyer filed for continuances, COVID happened, and the county went through 2 prosecutors.

If Josh's trial is delayed until after the baby is born I can see Anna having her next one 10-11 months after this one just to make sure she gets as many babies as she can before Josh goes away for 10 years.

I would say it's very likely to be delayed if he doesn't plead out immediately. If he's determined to take this to trial I can't imagine that there won't be motions for a variety of things that have to be resolved until a trial date can be set.  It's very rare that trials aren't rescheduled and delayed. 

[Zella]

28 minutes ago, Nysha said:

What's the chances of the trial being delayed past July? My ex-son-in-law just pled guilty to an assault charge where the first court date was almost 2 years ago. His lawyer filed for continuances, COVID happened, and the county went through 2 prosecutors.

If Josh's trial is delayed until after the baby is born I can see Anna having her next one 10-11 months after this one just to make sure she gets as many babies as she can before Josh goes away for 10 years.

I've wondered that too. I'm not familiar with federal cases and their timeline, but I've been following three different homicide trials that involve people I know as either victims or, well, not victims. None of them have gone to trial yet. The trials just keep being postponed. One of them has stretched on for years, literally. The other 2 are going on over 2 years and over 1 year. 

What's a normal federal timeline on charges being filed and actually the first day of the trial? 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Zella

[ginger90]

In my crystal ball I’m seeing many pre-trial motions.

 

[Hockey Addict]

I'm hoping that it goes on as scheduled and they give him the maximum sentence. What if it happens and Anna misses male relationships? 

[Hockey Addict]

If Mackynzie follows tradition in 10 years she will be married and starting her own quiver. Josh wont be allowed around the grandkids likely.

[GeeGolly]

Postponements can happen on either side, as well as with the judge, but defendants also have a right to a speedy trial. I can see Josh insisting his side not postpone, if he thinks he can get off. I doubt he's enjoying his living situation. On the other hand if Josh knows he'll be found guilty I'm sure his lawyers will use any means possible to postpone, postpone and postpone some more.

[Quilt Fairy]

On 6/8/2021 at 12:23 PM, Turquoise said:

Posted by floridamom on JD/Abbie:
I believe Anna went to the car lot early on because she didn't know what to do with herself alone at home, much like Jill who clung to Derick at Walmart corporate. No life skills for these undereducated, under experienced brides.

 

I think that may be part of it, but given what we know now I also suspect Anna was there to make sure ol' Joshie stayed off the computer. 

When is Anna ever alone?   Does she drop all of her brood, even the youngest, off at the TTH every day?  I thought she schooled her own kids.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Quilt Fairy

[Nysha]

1 hour ago, Quilt Fairy said:

When is Anna ever alone?   Does she drop all of her brood, even the youngest, off at the TTH every day?  I thought she schooled her own kids.

She was alone for the brief period of time between getting married and having Mackynzie.

[Rabbittron]

WOACB had up the other day but she took it down very quickly about how Smuggar had been to a amusement park with some of the kids and a few of his little sisters. This was right after he downloaded the material can you believe that bullshit she did because at that time he was not charged with anything. She made it seem like he took them there after he was charged. 

[Rabbittron]

I have a great name for M7 

My get out of jail free card.

[BigBingerBro]

JOSH DUGGAR’S SISTERS SUING HIM FOR ASSAULT?

[emmawoodhouse]

6 hours ago, Rabbittron said:

WOACB had up the other day but she took it down very quickly about how Smuggar had been to a amusement park with some of the kids and a few of his little sisters. This was right after he downloaded the material can you believe that bullshit she did because at that time he was not charged with anything. She made it seem like he took them there after he was charged. 

The video covered a trip the Duggars took to Silver Dollar City back in June 2019, just weeks after Smuggar downloaded all that CSA. He was pictured wandering off with Josie and Mack. Pics on Jana's IG corroborated the family trip, but there were no family members with Smuggar and the girls. The pics were taken by a woman who was there that day and recognized them. They didn't know they were having their pictures taken. 

eta: She didn't take the video down. I just checked, and it's still there.

Edited June 10, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[GeeGolly]

The charges against Josh are bad enough. The Crystal Ball chick doesn't need to add to it with more speculation. I always thought she was an obsessed attention seeking hater. Now I thinks she's scum.