Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[crazy8s]

17 minutes ago, dariafan said:

Honestly as more get married , I think they are finding they don’t like each other as much. Or the spouses are suggesting to them know things in their world aren’t normal.  They may visit inlaws and see how other people act and do around each other. 

and i dont think josh has paid attention to anything jb has done with money 

I don't think any of them have any idea and that's how JB wants it.

Trying to think what Abbie said not all that long ago. something about she was used to budgeting/living on a budget or something and her comment was John never lived like that.

[Ohiopirate02]

21 minutes ago, dariafan said:

Honestly as more get married , I think they are finding they don’t like each other as much. Or the spouses are suggesting to them know things in their world aren’t normal.  They may visit inlaws and see how other people act and do around each other.  
 

and i dont think josh has paid attention to anythibf jb has done with money 

Josh only paid attention to his bank account balance.  As long as his needs were met, he wouldn't say anything about how JB handles the rest of the family's money.

[Zella]

1 minute ago, crazy8s said:

I don't think any of them have any idea and that's how JB wants it.

Trying to think what Abbie said not all that long ago. something about she was used to budgeting/living on a budget or something and her comment was John never lived like that.

If I'm not mistaken, she was talking about a lack of regular, reliable income, so she was used to the idea of a steady paycheck and found it stressful to not have that and to still have to budget without that. 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Zella

[crazy8s]

6 minutes ago, Zella said:

If I'm not mistaken, she was talking about a lack of regular, reliable income, so she was used to the idea of a steady paycheck and found it stressful to not have that and to still have to budget without that. 

thanks - I couldn't remember the context of what she said, just that it was about budgeting

[Whyyouneedaname]

2 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

thanks - I couldn't remember the context of what she said, just that it was about budgeting

She also made mention of how she always lived on a schedule of going to bed at a certain time every night and waking up at a certain hour every morning & how John Boy (as she referred to him as) didn't grow up that way. She probably found out there was very little structure in that household. 

 

[Zella]

5 minutes ago, Whyyouneedaname said:

She also made mention of how she always lived on a schedule of going to bed at a certain time every night and waking up at a certain hour every morning & how John Boy (as she referred to him as) didn't grow up that way. She probably found out there was very little structure in that household. 

 

Enough spouses have mentioned that that I think it would be really hard for any of the Duggar kids to work a normal job, at least at first. Just yet another way their parents screwed them over.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Zella

[mittsigirl]

7 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I don't recall that version of the story.  On the show, Michelle was discussing the importance of women dressing modestly to avoid arousing men.  She talked about mowing the lawn in a bikini when she was in high school.  Her neighbor happened to see her, and, shortly afterwards, divorced his wife.  Michelle seemed to think that the sight of her in a swimsuit drove the man into a lustful frenzy which caused him to end his marriage.  

Michelle never said that her neighbor actually flirted with her, admired her bikini or otherwise expressed any interest in her.  Nor did the neighbor or his wife every tell her that her lawn mowing outfit had anything whatsoever to do with the collapse of the marriage.  Michelle apparently assumed she was just so darned irresistible that it was inevitably her fault.

It was my best friend who told me this story, I wasn't watching the show until she told it to me. I can't even discuss it with her now because, sadly, she passed away years ago:( But if you say this is the way it happened DOODLEBUG, then it must be the right story. MY friend died from a brain tumor, it is very possible she got mixed up with this story. I also lost a daughter to brain cancer and I know that as it progresses, they get very mixed up about things. Sorry for putting the wrong info out there, thanks for clearing it up with the true story, I appreciate knowing how it really happened.

[Oldernowiser]

23 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Josh only paid attention to his bank account balance.  As long as his needs were met, he wouldn't say anything about how JB handles the rest of the family's money.

I wonder, though…his “I am the first-borne, bow down ye peasants,” status took a pretty big hit after the second scandal. If JB really tightened his leash, I could definitely see Josh sneaking around to make sure he was still getting the money that in his mind he was entitled to. He’s apparently tech savvy, he has a lot of free time, he’s a known sneak, and I suspect he resents JB almost as much as he needs him.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

5 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

Will they shave Josh’s head again and make him dig another pond? Or something worse, since that didn’t do the trick before?

Shave his whole body and make him dig two ponds?  As the Lord said, if thy right hand offends thee, dig ponds all over town until everyone has a pond.  Pond digging will prevent you from all transgressions, no matter how heinous. 

[coconspirator]

According to TMZ Smuggar wants to be released so that he can be with Anna while she's pregnant. Surely the feds won't allow her to be his third party and won't allow him to be around his children while on bail. I expect him to be delusional and entitled, I just hope the prosecutors hold the line and burst his little smug bubble. 

[ginger90]

Just saw this:

In general, there is a rebuttable presumption that release should not be granted if it is alleged that a defendant has committed a crime for which the term of imprisonment is ten years of more, a defendant has committed an act of terrorism, a defendant has trafficked in humans, or the crime committed involved a minor.

[Gigi43]

So according to TMZ, Josh's docs for bond include saying he's too famous to get away with fleeing (debatable but I say he's not that famous where a lot of people could identify him in public), he hasn't fled even though he's known since November 2019 and turned himself in (actually a good argument) so I guess people just assumed the raid was financial? The family very well could have known for a while since it says he's been in contact with the state, and he needs to take care of Anna---which, ah, good luck with that unless Anna would rather have Josh taking care of her than have her children in the home. 

 

https://www.tmz.com/2021/05/04/josh-duggar-requests-bail-not-flight-risk-child-porn-charges/

Edited May 4, 2021 by Gigi43

[Zella]

4 minutes ago, Gigi43 said:

unless Anna would rather have Josh taking care of her than have her children in the home.

Unfortunately, I could actually see her agreeing to that. 

[Future Cat Lady]

He wants to take care of his wife my ass.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Future Cat Lady

[crazy8s]

I have no doubt he will get out on bond tomorrow. Where he will go and with what restrictions will be interesting.

Duggar pal Caleb Williams raped and impregnated a minor and got 62 days in jail with work release. 18 mo parole - No internet without permission from his parole officer.  (who is monitoring that) That scum has been suing for partial custody of the child for quite a while.

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by crazy8s

[Oldernowiser]

13 minutes ago, coconspirator said:

According to TMZ Smuggar wants to be released so that he can be with Anna while she's pregnant. Surely the feds won't allow her to be his third party and won't allow him to be around his children while on bail. I expect him to be delusional and entitled, I just hope the prosecutors hold the line and burst his little smug bubble. 

If anyone bothers to check out how well Josh “took care of” Anna when she was in labor, they’d know this is a big old crock. And it’s on tape.

[Jeanne222]

I think josh will go with Anna in the pole barn and the six kids will go to the big house!  What’s six more!

Anna can go there during the day and Baby Josh will be snug as a bug in a rug!

Yep!

[Tikichick]

5 minutes ago, Zella said:

Unfortunately, I could actually see her agreeing to that. 

I hope not on so many levels.

That kind of thing really has the potential of opening the door for big-time CPS involvement.  Sadly it's not even a little bit uncommon in cases where a husband is facing accusations of sexual abuse of a child or children in the home for the wife to insist she's not going to break with her husband.   I legitimately cannot tell you how many parents I have seen lose parental rights for exactly that issue.  I can never wrap my brain around it.

[Oldernowiser]

8 minutes ago, Zella said:

Unfortunately, I could actually see her agreeing to that. 

What I don’t understand is the logic that spouses can’t be compelled to testify against their spouses, right? Presumably because of the inherent conflict between truth and loyalty. But it’s okay to assume a spouse would babysit their spouse responsibly while they’re out on bail?

I am confused.

15 minutes ago, Gigi43 said:

So according to TMZ, Josh's docs for bond include saying he's too famous to get away with fleeing (debatable but I say he's not that famous where a lot of people could identify him in public),

Oh, please. Put him in a baseball hat and he’s identical to a million other fat guys from Arkansas. Or any state, really. Give me a break.

[ginger90]

7 minutes ago, mynextmistake said:

Interesting. Where did you see that? 

I normally put the link. I thought I did.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.robertguest.com/amp/bail-and-release-pending-trial-in-federal-cases.htm

[Zella]

Question for our federal folks. 

How many third-party guardian candidates are you allowed to propose for this bond hearing?

My totally armchair guess is if Anna is the only candidate put forth, then his request for release is more likely to be turned down because it really is dumb of them and, at least to me, raises red flags about the likelihood of enforcement of the requirements actually happening.

But if she is one of a handful or is not mentioned, then I could see the request being more likely to be granted. (Though, again, I'm not really sure how much success anyone is going to have with supervising him.)

But I have no clue! Just spitballing. 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Zella

[crazy8s]

8 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

Oh, please. Put him in a baseball hat and he’s identical to a million other fat guys from Arkansas. Or any state, really. Give me a break.

Jed! better go into hiding because he is totally Smuggar 2.0 in looks, size, hairline and smugness

[BigBingerBro]

[BigBingerBro]

JOSH DUGGAR Wants Out Of Jail On Bail I'M TOO FAMOUS TO BE FLIGHT RISK!!!

[Tikichick]

7 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

I cannot believe that an attorney with a history as a federal prosecutor and experience in these types of cases would actually draft a petition with that language minimizing the actual harm caused to children arising from the charges alleged here.   He would know that's going to face blistering and derisive opposition from the prosecution, like TV style oration fireworks. 

ETA  He would also be well aware just how unseemly it will look to propose Anna as monitor, knowing that would mean she would be abandoning six children with no parents to do so.    

Edited May 4, 2021 by Tikichick

[MargeGunderson]

3 hours ago, Zella said:

If I'm not mistaken, she was talking about a lack of regular, reliable income, so she was used to the idea of a steady paycheck and found it stressful to not have that and to still have to budget without that. 

That would stress me out so much. I can’t imagine not having my own money, and being in control of it. I married a guy who is more than happy to let me handle all of that, but the fact that he doesn’t care about it stresses me out too. I could be squirreling away money in an off shore account and he wouldn’t have a clue. (You guys won’t rat me out, will you?)

Edited May 4, 2021 by MargeGunderson

[Chicklet]

A 20 some year old Bentonville guy just got 30 years for this crime. He claimed that "since the images were from the 70's, the children were now adults so it shouldn't count.

Criminals, go figure. Is it too much to hope that Josh shared this lawyer?

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, Zella said:

If I'm not mistaken, she was talking about a lack of regular, reliable income, so she was used to the idea of a steady paycheck and found it stressful to not have that and to still have to budget without that. 

That's how I remember it as well. 

I don't think Anna's financial circumstances will change any time soon. She was reliant on JB for income, and I think she will continue to do so. Likely JB gives her a set amount to run her household on, and if she needs something irregular (like a major car repair) she has to ask him. IF JB keeps dolling out the allowance I dont think the M kids will suffer from lack of basic necessities.

I also think its like Anna would move back into the TTH before she went back to the Kellers and Mackynzie and Meredith will continue to provide domestic duties, child care for the nieces/nephews (as well as the younger M kids) and elder care for JB and Michelle as they age. Just because its simpler. The TTH has the room and they are already there. I also think the older M kids have attachments to their Duggar cousins and Anna likely wants to give them a chance to keep up those relationships. 

[coconspirator]

14 minutes ago, Chicklet said:

A 20 some year old Bentonville guy just got 30 years for this crime. He claimed that "since the images were from the 70's, the children were now adults so it shouldn't count.

Criminals, go figure. Is it too much to hope that Josh shared this lawyer?

I wonder if some of the sentences are due to the results of a SORA (sexual offender risk assessment). If one is ordered for Josh as part of the trial or sentencing phase and the examiner comes back with the conclusion that he is high risk (or low risk, on the opposite end) to reoffend with the same or worse behavior, that might influence his sentence if he's convicted or offers a plea. 

[ginger90]

23 minutes ago, Chicklet said:

A 20 some year old Bentonville guy just got 30 years for this crime. He claimed that "since the images were from the 70's, the children were now adults so it shouldn't count.

Criminals, go figure. Is it too much to hope that Josh shared this lawyer?

I saw that. His was state.

He pleaded guilty to 20 counts of distributing, possessing or viewing matter depicting sexually explicit conduct involving a child.

A friend of his initially reported it to police. I say good for the friend!

 

 

[Absolom]

46 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

That kind of thing really has the potential of opening the door for big-time CPS involvement.  Sadly it's not even a little bit uncommon in cases where a husband is facing accusations of sexual abuse of a child or children in the home for the wife to insist she's not going to break with her husband.   I legitimately cannot tell you how many parents I have seen lose parental rights for exactly that issue.  I can never wrap my brain around it.

It happens far, far too frequently.  A friend of mine would not break from her husband even after a dreadful incident with their newborn second child.  It took her so much effort to regain custody of the first child and then she complained because she was on the state's register and couldn't adopt.  She to this day swears she did nothing wrong.  Telling her straight up you stayed with the abuser what did you expect still gets a string of excuses.  She lived through it all and still can't see it or can't admit it.  

Anna seems even less attached to the real world and probably would make the same mistake.

[Tuxcat]

I am guessing the prosecution cannot reference Josh's pattern of behavior at the bond hearing (or at all going forward)?

[emmawoodhouse]

7 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

I am guessing the prosecution cannot reference Josh's pattern of behavior at the bond hearing (or at all going forward)?

I think he gets out on a fairly steep bond. I have no clue as to whom the 3rd party will be. I assume he'll also have to wear a tracker. 

[MrsClaus]

Anyone else think Josh might be safer in jail instead of out?

[humbleopinion]

Joshly is a flight risk...

His family owns a plane, 3 brothers are pilots.

 Sister and BIL lived in Laredo with his family and contacts still residing at the border.

[MargeGunderson]

Just now, humbleopinion said:

Joshly is a flight risk...

His family owns a plane, 3 brothers are pilots.

 Sister and BIL lived in Laredo with his family and contacts still residing at the border.

Also, his family has a history of downplaying serious incidents involving Josh. 

[iwantcookies]

I am surprised Josh did not make a run for it before 🤷‍♀️
 

Guess he has no $ or just does not care

[beckie]

Josh is probably thinking that if can convince them to let him go home to "take care of Anna during her pregnancy" that they'll just agree to let the kids be there, because they are his kids. I think Anna would be a terrible choice for the third party,  simply because of the kids. 

[emmawoodhouse]

No way is Anna appointed the 3rd party. I don't think the judge will release him to anyone with access to young children. 

[Arkay]

1 hour ago, coconspirator said:

According to TMZ Smuggar wants to be released so that he can be with Anna while she's pregnant. Surely the feds won't allow her to be his third party and won't allow him to be around his children while on bail. I expect him to be delusional and entitled, I just hope the prosecutors hold the line and burst his little smug bubble. 

Maybe that’s why Josh has kept Anna pregnant all the time. He knew what filth he was involved in and thinks her pregnancy is a hedge against staying in jail. So Anna always pregnant = no jail for Josh whenever the hammer came down.

kidding/not kidding

[BigBingerBro]

3 minutes ago, Arkay said:

Maybe that’s why Josh has kept Anna pregnant all the time. He knew what filth he was involved in and thinks her pregnancy is a hedge against staying in jail. So Anna always pregnant = no jail for Josh whenever the hammer came down.

kidding/not kidding

I was thinking the same - wife pregnant = more sympathy from judge

[Tuxcat]

27 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I think he gets out on a fairly steep bond. I have no clue as to whom the 3rd party will be. I assume he'll also have to wear a tracker. 

Right, but can the prosecution at any time use the past molestation behavior to further argue that Josh is a potential threat to children?

I am guessing that information is not usable since he was a minor.

But it is relevant since his ridiculous lawyers seem to be arguing that "all Josh did was look at CP images- he certainly didn't come into contact with a child..." (which by the way I am shocked his lawyers would argue in this manner but the previous post suggests thats the way they are going for the bond hearing at least)

[woodscommaelle]

7 hours ago, 3girlsforus said:

The Subway Jared guy got bond on similar charges but his actually included traveling to molest a child (can’t remember the legal term)

I think the legal term is: fucking disgusting. 

[Arkay]

1 hour ago, mynextmistake said:

I expect the defense will put forth either Jana (with JB proposing a new address she can live at with Josh during the pendency of the case) or Jed. None of the other kids would be suitable because they have children, and I honestly can’t imagine any of them signing up for this duty anyway. 

Again, collateral damage. Poor Jana has spent a lifetime raising all her younger siblings, and now would have to supervise her one older sibling. All because of choices she did not make. She may finally be in an actual courtship and I’d hate this to ruin her happiness. Jed also is living more independently. They likely are the best choices to harbor Josh, but why should monitoring him be their lives now? So unfair. 

[SMama]

41 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

 Sister and BIL lived in Laredo with his family and contacts still residing at the border.

I can’t see Jeremy aiding and abetting the scumbag who sexually assaulted his wife. Jeremy’s family live in the east coast, I forget where but nowhere near Laredo. 

[Cinnabon]

Just now, SMama said:

I can’t see Jeremy aiding and abetting the scumbag who sexually assaulted his wife. Jeremy’s family live in the east coast, I forget where but nowhere near Laredo. 

Jeremy recently hosted the abuser in his LA home, with his toddler daughter present .

[3girlsforus]

2 hours ago, Future Cat Lady said:

He wants to take care of his wife my ass.

If he wanted to take care of his wife then all he should have downloaded was the want ads 

[ginger90]

4 minutes ago, SMama said:

I can’t see Jeremy aiding and abetting the scumbag who sexually assaulted his wife. Jeremy’s family live in the east coast, I forget where but nowhere near Laredo. 

They live in Pennsylvania.

[humbleopinion]

10 minutes ago, SMama said:

I can’t see Jeremy aiding and abetting the scumbag who sexually assaulted his wife. Jeremy’s family live in the east coast, I forget where but nowhere near Laredo. 

His parents live in Downington, Pennsylvania but thought he had other family in Laredo, my mistake.

Maybe his old Grace Community Church on the border would help his famous felon-in-law..haha

 Might sell a few books if Jer could get some publicity....even bad publicity is attention

Edited May 5, 2021 by humbleopinion

[3girlsforus]

1 hour ago, MargeGunderson said:

That would stress me out so much. I can’t imagine not having my own money, and being in control of it. I married a guy who is more than happy to let me handle all of that, but the fact that he doesn’t care about it stresses me out too. I could be squirreling away money in an off shore account and he wouldn’t have a clue. (You guys won’t rat me out, will you?)

I have a similar arrangement with my spouse and it does stress me out but it what works best for us so I’m ok with it. The major difference with the Duggar setup is that the money is used to control. That’s called financial domestic abuse. In Anna’s and other Gothard wives cases it’s further compounded with being raised to believe financial and emotional abuse is what God wants for them so it seems normal. Then when the husband does anything wrong it’s ‘look what you made me do. You weren’t a good enough wife. Be a better, more holy wife and we wouldn’t be in this mess’.  It just crushes upon crushes any hope of self esteem. And then that ‘you did this’ mentality transfers to the money as well. I guarantee any money Anna needs will come with major strings attached and the regular reminders of how her failure as a wife has left her in this situation.