Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[zenme]

That's not the way I took it at all. I think he's sending that out to everyone who is against the Duggars right now

 

Yes. I suppose my posting was confusing.  I was just thinking Dan should've shared his message about judgment TO FRC Smuggar when he was trying to make life miserable for people who don't share his ideas. 

Edited May 28, 2015 by zenme

[WalrusGirl]

The spin-off consideration is just being leaked in response to headlines and questions about TLC "not having responded/officially cancelled the show" yet. Half to say "we're working on it, hang on," and half as a weather-balloon to gauge the response.

I guess I'm in the minority that would support a spin-off, for whichever adult children wanted to be involved. (Based on Jill and Jessa's public social media presence, I assume they'd have been all for a spin-off as of last week.)

Sure, never feature (or pay!) Josh again (whether that requires actually blurring him out at future weddings or just never focusing on, interviewing, or paying him again), but Josh is unfortunately the kid to financially benefit the most over the years (as people who know more than me are pretty sure he and Anna had a separate financial relationship with TLC from the family pot). Jill and Jessa may very well have still been paid at JB's discretion from the family pool through this past season, and all of the older kids had the reasonable expectation that they'd be able to cash in via TLC/People for a little while longer if they so chose. I HATE for that to be taken away from the kids who did nothing wrong, and x100 for the actual victims who suffered the most at the time and due to the last week.

(I'm not worried about the littles' financial security - JB&M are all set; they'll be provided for just fine, albeit without subsidized vacations. It's the newlyweds and young adults who individually had a good shot at accumulating some real money for themselves.)

It's easy enough to even include the unmarrieds and older minors in a spin-off with their sisters (if they want and JB allows) without the money going to JB. Just make it non-negotiable (it would certainly help with the sponsors anyway) that each kid's payment goes to a trust in their name, administered by a neutral lawyer or financial advisor.

Any spin-off would have a very different "feel," so may not hold the same ratings, but since the ratings have been the highest through Jessa and Jill's courtships and weddings, I'd guess that a series focusing just on them and/or the older and courting kids would do fine for a bit. (Especially if they included new courtships/relationships/weddings - for the kids and partners who wanted to - to break up the monotony between births.) I'd at least rather see them get the shot - for any who want it - rather than have money they would have earned taken from their pockets because their brother abused them and it's now public knowledge.

[zenme]

Duggered vs Buggered one in the same or similar?

 

 

Okay, BrianJ62.  You've so recently returned, but I have to say, back to prayer closet! Now!

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

It's fine and dandy that Josh has found forgiveness in Jesus. It's fine and dandy that any Christian who sins can fix their relationship with God and be forgiven. Even though I'm not religious, I'm happy for him if he's now on the right path and enjoys knowing Jesus again, etc. Good for him.

That doesn't mean I'm ever going to let Josh or his parents babysit my kids.

That doesn't mean I want to see him or his family on my TV ever again or hear about them (especially if they're working for a hate group).

It's great he considers himself forgiven. That's between him, his God, and his sisters. But that doesn't mean the public is going to forget what went on in this family. "Forgiveness" has nothing to do with whether or not this show should continue.

Edited May 28, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[Muffyn]

"*Jill and Derrick might go on a mission, which would hamper filming. Derrick might man up and want out of the circus."

 

Or, he could flip out and go to work in nothing but his Pistol Pete holster and gun.

Gaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh!!!!  Brain bleach. Must get to brain bleach.  Must soak brain until all thoughts of a nearly naked Derek are gone. 

 

I confess: I do tend to get a bit judgey when sexual assault of a child is involved.

And I can honestly say that in carefully perusing my own life, I'm not perfect, but I've somehow been able to avoid mistakes like molesting a 5-year-old.

I'll join you on that judgement train.  Just never found myself wanting to molest any child.  I am safe around 5 year olds with bare shoulders and all sleeping children, regardless of how they are dressed.  

[zenme]

It's great he considers himself forgiven. That's between him, his God, and his sisters. But that doesn't mean the public is going to forget what went on in this family. "Forgiveness" has nothing to do with whether or not this show should continue.

 

Exactly.  And I'd like to see if one day when Dan Dillard has a daughter if he'd have Smuggar babysit for him--or allow Smuggs to read to his daughter while she's seated on his lap, for that matter.

Edited May 28, 2015 by zenme

[RandomX]

I read the forums much more than I ever watched the show, which honestly bored the crap out of me the few times I came across it. Jill's wedding episode was the first episode I ever watched, mainly because I was home sick and enjoying the forum commentary.

So I'm admittedly an outlier. That said, I don't know that I'd characterize losing the show as punishing or revictimizing anyone. If anything, these developments indicate the show $$ is golden handcuffs for the kids. If the Dillards have to make do with Derrick's income ... well, they're still better off than many young people their age are. And just maybe Ben and Jessa will be better off in the long run if they have to figure out how to live independently.

Being a reality star is a job, but this job bound the kids closely to the parents and we all saw that JB used every opportunity to keep the older ones dependent on him. Blowing it up may be difficult in the short term but help the kids of all ages carve out more independence in the long run.

[Mrsjumbo]

The State Trooper that failed the Victims looks like a deranged character from Game of Thrones.

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/duggar-breaking-news-disgraced-cop-who-didn-t-report-molestation-shoots-down-jim-bob-s-story-59235

Ha! I KNEW someone was going to go to jail & interview the trooper!

[KAOS Agent]

I think something many people miss when evaluating the potential of going forward with the show is that its loyal audience is most likely not made up hugely of fundamentalists like the Duggars. A lot of the viewers of the show tune in to see this happy family that seems a bit weird, but are cute with their strange courting rituals and emphasis on purity and godliness and whatnot. Those are the kind of viewers who could not tune into this show and see the happy, godly family go to the zoo now that they know it's all a sham. There may be a huge surge of curiosity seekers on the first episode if the show came back, but they'll disappear quickly and those original loyal viewers won't be returning either.

 

I think the best TLC could do is have a Jessa birth special in November and maybe an update with any of the older kids who may be courting and how Jill's doing. Outside of that, a weekly show is not sustainable. What exactly would they show every week?  Jessa going grocery shopping to feed her large family of two? Jill taking care of her one baby? Oh no, how will this woman cope as a stay at home mom with one baby? Her life must be soooo hard. There was very little substance behind the show in the first place but the hook was that there were 19 kids and look how this family manages that. Jill and Jessa's lives aren't unique or interesting at this point. People like the babies and marriage, but that doesn't happen every week. Throw in the ick factor associated with their family and how many sponsors would take the risk of being associated with it?

[Rhondinella]

Chalby--I moved your post with the question about everyone being sinners to the Religion thread.  I'm sure the helpful and respectful posters there, some of whom are devout Christians, can give you an answer.

[murf1013]

I confess: I do tend to get a bit judgey when sexual assault of a child is involved.

And I can honestly say that in carefully perusing my own life, I'm not perfect, but I've somehow been able to avoid mistakes like molesting a 5-year-old.

Funny ... me too. I've managed to go my entire life without making any "mistakes" even remotely like that.

Edited May 28, 2015 by murf1013

[cmr2014]

From the Washington Post:

 

"It’s impossible to escape the idea that the entire focus of Josh Duggar’s statement is Josh Duggar being okay with Josh Duggar. As if anyone cares about that."

 

This is the truth.

 

I hope that CPS was involved and Josh and his victims received real counseling under court order, and I also hope that he has not re-offended. But, to me, there is no sign that he feels any guilt or any remorse -- I would not expect him to spend the rest of his life on his knees begging for forgiveness, but I don't see anything like contrition is his behavior. A person who has felt real, genuine, shame and remorse, someone who has reflected on the baseness and selfishness of his own behavior, and someone who had received the gift of genuine forgiveness from his victims just wouldn't behave like Josh Duggar does,

 

He is smug and condescending to everyone -- including his own family members. His behavior toward his sisters has never struck me as brotherly teasing -- maybe because I never saw any reciprocity in the girls teasing him back in a good-natured way.

 

Josh would not be the first person in the world who appeared to be a nice enough guy -- good Christian, good husband and father, loving son, etc. who turned out to be less than he appeared. In reality, Josh would not even be the only self-absorbed narcissist in his *immediate family.*.

[Patricia07]

I think an occasional special with the married couples and other kids (minus Josh and family and JB & Michelle) would be a good compromise. But that's probably not what TLC or JB are looking for.  

[Morgalisa]

There was a discussion on CNN tonight and I thought they made a good point about forgiveness. The girls were not of an age to be asked to forgive. It should never have happened and just piled more abuse on them. Forgiveness can take decades, if at all. And after proper counseling. That must have been very confusing for them. (Typing on my kindle is hard for me).

[Mrsjumbo]

I too was appalled to discover JB & M signed up for the show AFTER Josh's "mistake". Then I thought " what if there never was a show?" Josh would have still molested, the girls still would have had to put on the "sweet" faces when they performed with he screechy violins at churches. They *might* have slowed down on kids since without the show they wouldn't have been living in the TTH, & their old house was full to bursting. Josh still probably would have tried to get his job with the FRC (but maybe not since his celebrity seemed to open doors). And they all would have been as bigoted & judgemental as ever.

So in short, having the TV show didn't change them in essentials. Just made it easier for them to live their life in the same faux religious way.

And I say NO to a spinoff. I only watched occasionally, mostly because I live near them now & wanted to see what restaurants, attractions they were going to, or if I knew anyone in the background. I could never sit through the girls & their courting/birth stories. Remember how sick everyone was getting of Jill?

One more thing- I remember my boys were in a christmas parade & I believe the Duggar's wrre there with a living nativity float & Josh was dressed as Joseph! What gall!

Edited May 28, 2015 by Mrsjumbo

[WalrusGirl]

I think the best TLC could do is have a Jessa birth special in November and maybe an update with any of the older kids who may be courting and how Jill's doing. Outside of that, a weekly show is not sustainable. What exactly would they show every week? [...] There was very little substance behind the show in the first place but the hook was that there were 19 kids and look how this family manages that. Jill and Jessa's lives aren't unique or interesting at this point. People like the babies and marriage, but that doesn't happen every week. Throw in the ick factor associated with their family and how many sponsors would take the risk of being associated with it?

Content-wise, I'd certainly prefer specials! Half of the last two seasons seem to have been filler or clips from things that happened in the immediately preceding episodes. I just disagree that the victims should automatically also be "punished" with Josh/JB&M by canceling it all outright. Obviously, there are an awful lot of cons to having a reality series; they're just adults now and I figure that's their call to make, since their parents already took on most of the "cons" for them years ago. (I'm not as queasy about Jill and Jessa's infants being on a reality show, since - assuming good health - there's not much privacy to invade. Babies are all pretty similar, when it comes down to it. I'm a lot more concerned with a focus on minors in the preschool-18 year age range.)

I got interested in the family out of sociological fascination back when they did the pre-series specials, but could never watch the series consistently aside from engagements/weddings/births. Episodes where Michelle pretends to spend 1:1 time with the kids, or they race derby cars, I could do without. (It could be because I'm not a big kid person!)

But the focus has already shifted very heavily towards the same content they'd put in "specials" and away from family activities/day in the life episodes, so the shift would have already been gradual. I'd hope sponsors would get on board with not boycotting the then-minors who, at minimum, did nothing wrong, provided TLC cut the at-fault principles out of the financial arrangement entirely. That might be a deal-breaker for interested kids to have JB's approval, but most don't legally need his permission.

Really curious to see how the whole (business) arrangement settles. Does anyone know when the next season was originally scheduled to start?

[Albanyguy]

This morning's Washington Post has a quote from Michelle's book "A Love That Multiplies" that could serve as a good response to the fools who are yelling "God has forgiven Josh, so stop being mean to him!":

 

“God can forgive any wrong choices a person is willing to confess and forsake, but there are still painful consequences to be endured.”

[becca3891]

Wasn't there some cousin who had gotten out that used to be nicknamed (by us) "FAMY"?  I know she is on the outside--has anyone picked up on comments by her?

Amy was never in the Quiverfull, Gothard world. Her mom is Jim Bob's sister and they are fundy lite. Amy was born when her parents weren't married, is an only child, and they have said they have had serious marriage problems. 

Every time I hear about this culture blaming the female for every instance of male failure, I've wondered one thing. What would Boob and Me-chelle do if Josh had molested his brothers - instead of his sisters? Without any lowly female temptresses in the equation, who gets the blame then? What kind of lame, pat answer would they regurgitate in that situation? I can't even imagine it...

That is a really excellent question. Gothard of course leaves no room in his beliefs for the possibility of a male being defrauding, either to a woman or a man. Would he really tell a little boy that his towel slipping off after a bath caused his older brother to molest him, as the boy in Gothard's example said of his younger sister? Of course not. It's a sickening double standard.

 

When was blanket training shown?  CPS was involved it would seem before the show was made a series if my calendar reads correctly.

They never showed it, which is rather telling, because if it only involved "correction," as Michelle called it, and implied that the correction was verbal, then they would have had no qualms about filming it. I knew all along there was physical punishment going on, as they endorsed the horrible Pearls on their website. But they were very dishonest not to admit it.

 

I admit it, I would watch a Jill, Jessa and Josiah (and any further Duggar kids) spinoff. Partly because I feel sorry for them and know they have no skills other than talking about courtship and babies on TV, and partly because I want us to eventually have something to talk about here besides Josh's horribleness.

[mbutterfly]

From People Magazine  http://www.people.com/article/19-kids-counting-spin-off-tlc-jessa-seewald-jill-dillard-duggar-family

 

"a source close to the Duggars says a new plan may shift focus away from the large brood headed up by Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar, and instead focus on newlyweds Jill and Derick Dillard, and Jessa and Ben Seewald."

 

I don't know what everyone feels about this but I had thought for a long time that Jessa and Jill would eventually get their own spin-off shows. In the aftermath of all this with Josh, I don't think I can even think about Jessa and Jill in the same way as before. I think I'll pass on watching that if it comes to light.

I don't have any big problem with this as a show idea. It could be pleasant enough especially if there would be cute episodes with little ones dropping by for special family events (maybe not Josie, but that could just be me). One trouble I see is it would probably get boring unless Jessa, Jill, Ben, and Derrick individually started doing some interesting stuff. Maybe Ben could help build habitat houses in rural NW Arkansas, for example. Or Jill could complete her midwife licensing and do stuff a little like "Call the Midwife" She could even ride a bicycle since they have only one car. It would be very important that there be no Josh, Anna, nor the cute little Ms I think. 

 

Edited May 28, 2015 by Rhondinella

[andromeda331]

Where is the Christian outrage at the duplicity, and the grossly Pharasaical nature of this whole Duggar circus?  They have been flouting Christian  teaching left and right.  I just don't understand it.

 

 

I completely agree with your entire post. I don't understand it either when they were being held up as a good Christian family

while sprouting hate towards gays and others. They easily could use the very same Christian principles to point out any and all ways Josh and his parents are not good Christians and shouldn't be held up as an example of that. The way they used it to attack others have it finally turned back on them.

 

Honestly their not the only ones. The media has still been going soft on them. I can't figure out why either. Many of the shows that featured them why aren't they voicing their outrage or disgust? Yes, the statue of limitations ran out. But Josh still molested his sisters, receive no real punishment or consequence for it. His victims had to go on tv for the next ten years with their molester. How can they say nothing now? They interviewed Josh. They interviewed his parents and sisters. But now have nothing to say except whether or not the show will be canceled? Where's their stories on the actual crime? The cover up? All of Josh's comments that this site and others are finding about him accusing people of molesting? The victims having to spend the next decade on camera with their abuser? Where's their experts? 

 

Mods, I really hope this post isn't against the guidelines, if its please let me know and I'll remove it.

[NextIteration]

The media has still been going soft on them. I can't figure out why either. Many of the shows that featured them why aren't they voicing their outrage or disgust? 

 

Though the packages don't delve deep enough really, I find it interesting that Erica Hill has been assigned to do the packages that appear on NBC shows as well as the rolling MSNBC coverage.  Thomas Roberts seems to be using the harshest terms, oft repeating molestation and mentioning the massive hypocrisy.

 

I'm not a CNN viewer really - and I haven't watched the Dr Drew episode, but I have caught a couple clips of Don Lemon, he can barely contain his disgust - but that's Don Lemon, he's sort of always off the rails unprofessional to me - not that his disgust isn't entirely warranted on this topic.

Edited May 28, 2015 by NextIteration

[charmed1]

I'm not a CNN viewer really - and I haven't watched the Dr Drew episode, but I have caught a couple clips of Don Lemon, he can barely contain his disgust - but that's Don Lemon, he's sort of always off the rails unprofessional to me - not that his disgust isn't entirely warranted on this topic.

Don Lemon annoys me mostly, but he's a victim of molestation himself, as well as a gay man. I'm sure he wouldn't go easy on the Duggars.

[Dawn16]

I did not watch the earlier specials but started watching the series because it was fascinating to see a family that was odd in what I thought was an essentially harmless way.  When I learned more about their beliefs, I continued watching because I had gotten to know the children and, at the same time, was interested in seeing the way they got things wrong about Christianity and about parenthood.  For example, the episode where they were trying to stand very still while visiting a church with music you just have to move to (look up David dancing with joy).  My kids started watching with me, and it was a show that was safe for the littlest to watch yet also sparked interesting discussions with the older kids.  As the Duggar children grew up, I was also watching to see which would reject some of their parents' beliefs and strike out on their own. 

 

I would probably tune in to a spinoff with only the older children.  No Josh or parents.  However, I would stop watching if I heard things that made me feel they were continuing to be exploited by their parents or their cult.  I couldn't listen to them say fake things about their childhoods or point out their teachings about covering female bodies.  AND, I honestly don't want to reward the fans who keep posting online that this is a private family issue, Josh has said he's sorry so it's all good, and the parents responded in the Godly way.  I don't want those people to get their beloved TV show back, because I can't help thinking of the effect they are having not only on these victims but on other victims of this sort of offense. 

[Aja]

Dan Dillard. Seriously. I'm just dumbfounded by these people. And confused. I mean, my opinion is that they're dangerous and unbright freaks, but they have a movement. They have a gay-hating, woman-hating, society-hating, independent-thought-hating movement and one of the foundations of that movement is how friggin morally superior they all are. So, if I myself received some sort of a blow to the head and, as a result, found it necessary to join a breeding cult, and I rose through the ranks to decision-making leadership, and one of our superstars got exposed as an incestuous child molester, MY advice to my fellow freaks would be "drop  him. Drop the family.It's just that it's going to get harder and harder to convince people to join us if we staunchly defend a child molester and then additionally scream at everyone about how they're being too judgy about morality. Dig?" I mean, do none of them EVER have a coherent thought EVER?? I want to know the reasoning. Genuinely. Can I know? I WANT TO KNOW.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Aja

[jschoolgirl]

From Adweek:

 

TLC has a history of ignoring the many red flags surrounding the Duggar family ...

 

[Shibori]

If CPS/DCFS/etc required it during their ongoing follow-up (which was rumored by the Alice poster in ~2007 who had a lot of details right, and the existence of a "trial"/appeal supports), it wouldn't be part of the public record or any record subject to FOIA release. I think the evidence of CPS follow-up gives us good reason to hope that they required counseling with an approved practitioner (ie, licensed, but a Christian-based licensed practitioner likely would have been approved) for at least the family victims, and hopefully for Josh as well as he was still in the house at the time.

 

 

Here's what I find interesting- if the InTouch story about Josh "suing" CPS is accurate, and I believe it is in the sense that a hearing was held where he appealed a CPS finding, then there's a whole lot more to this story that is sealed/expunged that the Duggars are holding their collective breaths hoping no one can prove.  I'm beginning to think their silence is intentional in that they've only admitted to as much of the story as was required by what the original police report said.  They admitted that Josh's "counseling" at that time wasn't even counseling by their standards.  Nothing from the original police report would have resulted in Josh receiving court-ordered, legit counseling.  If Josh did get court ordered counseling later, and I suspect he did, it would only have been because some court or agency made a finding that justified such an order, and they can't admit that now without acknowledging that he was court ordered for a reason.

 

I think the InTouch story is accurate, but written by someone without a legal background or experience in the system.  They interpreted finding a case styled "Josh Duggar v. DHS" as Josh suing them, which is highly unlikely, as it would have made abuse allegations public at a time when the family was just getting started with TLC.  More likely, he was appealing a DHS finding.  When something gets appealed, the caption of the case (DHS v. Josh) is changed to reflect the person who appealed.  So if Josh appealed the DHS finding, his name would come first in the caption for the appeal.  So the original investigation may have been DHS v. Josh, but an appeal initiated by Josh would be called Josh v. DHS because Josh is the appellant.  He wouldn't be appealing if they hadn't made a finding against him.  Now, the investigation and the appeal are most likely sealed, and if he was listed at one point on the child abuse registry for Arkansas, by their rules he could get off the list as soon as one year later (which is an outrageous policy, IMO) and there would be no record now that he ever was on it. The Duggars are going to be careful not to say anything that draws attention to this DHS case, and they've got to be on edge hoping that no one magically produces some of those documents (and things have gotten crazy enough that I could see them being obtained illegally or at least questionably by some less legit news outlet).  Especially if the DHS findings were based on a larger pattern of abuse than what was described in the police report.  I think there's a lot more that happened, and the Duggars are just hoping what's supposed to be sealed stays that way.

[HumblePi]

 

I don't have any big problem with this as a show idea. It could be pleasant enough especially if there would be cute episodes with little ones dropping by for special family events (maybe not Josie, but that could just be me). One trouble I see is it would probably get boring unless Jessa, Jill, Ben, and Derrick individually started doing some interesting stuff. Maybe Ben could help build habitat houses in rural NW Arkansas, for example. Or Jill could complete her midwife licensing and do stuff a little like "Call the Midwife" She could even ride a bicycle since they have only one car. It would be very important that there be no Josh, Anna, nor the cute little Ms I think. 

 

On second thought, it might be somewhat enjoyable discovering how Ben is diagnosed with a condition called OSA, 'obstructive sleep apnea'. He mouth breathes when he's awake so I'm sure he snores, coughs and chokes in his sleep.  His nose always sounds like he has cotton stuffed up his nostrils and needs some Dristan nasal spray. He always appears half asleep and half a beat behind any conversation. I compare him to the little kid on the viral video that just came back from the dentist and is still under the influence of anesthesia. (Is this real life?)  Maybe there would be a 'ta-daaa' moment when they unveil the CPAP machine that will change his life. Yes, that might be enough to fill one entire "Waking up with Ben" episode.

 

okay, that was 100% snark. I just can't imagine watching Ben or Derick for an entire hour trying to compose a few cohesive sentences and the 'humorous quips' they attempt to make.....I groan.

[Dawn16]

Santorum was astute enough to state when asked about the Josh Duggar allegations that he was sickened by it and prays for the girls in particular.  “To have gone through that is … just hard to think about.”

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/rick-santorum-sickened-josh-duggar-molestation-allegations/story?id=31352646

[Missy Vixen]

I can't see how a spinoff would work for the simple reason it would be impossible for the "stars" to get paid. Jill and Jessa probably have their own bank accounts, but I am willing to bet any other Duggar still residing in that house does not. And anyone who thinks that Jim Boob isn't going to have his hand out is insane.

 

The young adults still living at home also will not be doing anything that's worth filming. They don't have hobbies. They don't attend anything but homeschooling conferences. What is there to film?

[Skittl1321]

Santorum was astute enough to state when asked about the Josh Duggar allegations that he was sickened by it and prays for the girls in particular.  “To have gone through that is … just hard to think about.”

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/rick-santorum-sickened-josh-duggar-molestation-allegations/story?id=31352646

Wow- good for him.  Possibly the first action that Santorum has had that made me like him (at least in comparison to Huckabee, who I really dislike too.)

[Cherrio]

Dan Dillard. Seriously. I'm just dumbfounded by these people. And confused. I mean, my opinion is that they're dangerous and unbright freaks, but they have a movement. They have a gay-hating, woman-hating, society-hating, independent-thought-hating movement and one of the foundations of that movement is how friggin morally superior they all are. So, if I myself received some sort of a blow to the head and, as a result, found it necessary to join a breeding cult, and I rose through the ranks to decision-making leadership, and one of our superstars got exposed as an incestuous child molester, MY advice to my fellow freaks would be "drop  him. Drop the family.It's just that it's going to get harder and harder to convince people to join us if we staunchly defend a child molester and then additionally scream at everyone about how they're being too judgy about morality. Dig?" I mean, do none of them EVER have a coherent thought EVER?? I want to know the reasoning. Genuinely. Can I know? I WANT TO KNOW.

Ignorance breeds more ignorance.

[Aja]

Rick Santorum's response is the only sane one from the extreme right that I've heard. Wow, there's a sentence I never thought I'd say.

[JAYJAY1979]

This story/scandal just bothers me still and I agree with the mods.

Edited May 28, 2015 by JAYJAY1979

[BitterApple]

I can't see how a spinoff would work for the simple reason it would be impossible for the "stars" to get paid. Jill and Jessa probably have their own bank accounts, but I am willing to bet any other Duggar still residing in that house does not. And anyone who thinks that Jim Boob isn't going to have his hand out is insane.

Not to mention any minor children appearing in a spin off would still need Boob and Michelle's consent. Boob would definitely make sure he got a piece of the pie if TLC needed the younger kids to make a show work.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Rick Santorum's response is the only sane one from the extreme right that I've heard. Wow, there's a sentence I never thought I'd say.

Do you see what you have done, Duggars? The world is upside down!

[NextIteration]

If you watch the clip of Santorum, his face says it all.  A lot of people think that the grifter Huckabee is folksy and agreeable when he disagrees, but to me it's Santorum.  I do not agree with any of his views on anything, but I've read enough about him and their struggles with their little girl that I respect him.  He doesn't seem to engage in the hate mongering that Huckabee does.

Edited May 28, 2015 by NextIteration

[Kammy76]

If you go to TLC's website there is a tab at the bottom to leave a comment about the shows. I left one telling them that I would not watch the network if the Duggars show stays. Let's use our voices to tell TLC what we think!

[NextIteration]

Dr. Drew Clip

 

I keep talking about the sketchy use of statute of limitation going on with this situation, Lisa Bloom talks about the legal aspects in her opinion at about 3:38, it appears that I'm not the only one that finds it sketchy.

[farmgal4]

Dlisted has an article that states that Josh actually sued Arkansas DHS.

[skippy]

Here's what I find interesting- if the InTouch story about Josh "suing" CPS is accurate, and I believe it is in the sense that a hearing was held where he appealed a CPS finding, then there's a whole lot more to this story that is sealed/expunged that the Duggars are holding their collective breaths hoping no one can prove.  I'm beginning to think their silence is intentional in that they've only admitted to as much of the story as was required by what the original police report said.  They admitted that Josh's "counseling" at that time wasn't even counseling by their standards.  Nothing from the original police report would have resulted in Josh receiving court-ordered, legit counseling.  If Josh did get court ordered counseling later, and I suspect he did, it would only have been because some court or agency made a finding that justified such an order, and they can't admit that now without acknowledging that he was court ordered for a reason.

 

I think the InTouch story is accurate, but written by someone without a legal background or experience in the system.  They interpreted finding a case styled "Josh Duggar v. DHS" as Josh suing them, which is highly unlikely, as it would have made abuse allegations public at a time when the family was just getting started with TLC.  More likely, he was appealing a DHS finding.  When something gets appealed, the caption of the case (DHS v. Josh) is changed to reflect the person who appealed.  So if Josh appealed the DHS finding, his name would come first in the caption for the appeal.  So the original investigation may have been DHS v. Josh, but an appeal initiated by Josh would be called Josh v. DHS because Josh is the appellant.  He wouldn't be appealing if they hadn't made a finding against him.  Now, the investigation and the appeal are most likely sealed, and if he was listed at one point on the child abuse registry for Arkansas, by their rules he could get off the list as soon as one year later (which is an outrageous policy, IMO) and there would be no record now that he ever was on it. The Duggars are going to be careful not to say anything that draws attention to this DHS case, and they've got to be on edge hoping that no one magically produces some of those documents (and things have gotten crazy enough that I could see them being obtained illegally or at least questionably by some less legit news outlet).  Especially if the DHS findings were based on a larger pattern of abuse than what was described in the police report.  I think there's a lot more that happened, and the Duggars are just hoping what's supposed to be sealed stays that way.

 

This is the most cogent and realistic analysis of what has happened and is happening. 

If you go to TLC's website there is a tab at the bottom to leave a comment about the shows. I left one telling them that I would not watch the network if the Duggars show stays. Let's use our voices to tell TLC what we think!

 

I'm not going to stop watching anything on TLC just because of this mess. There are some interesting programs on TLC. Why should I suffer the consequences of Josh Duggar's heinous actions?  Boycotting the entire network (which I believe no one would really do) isn't going to have any effect on any of the people in this deplorable mess.

[truthtalk2014]

i have been down in the dumps the past few days and trying to catch up with this thread.  at the rate i'm going i may never =p.  i was also at fj trying to catch up and saw this. this person claims to be the one that forwarded the info to intouch.  if you go to her IG and scroll down, you will see a same sex couple kissing outside the duggar compound.  some of you may remember that picture.

 

mods, i know that you have been working overtime but, please delete if you feel it necessary.

 

https://instagram.com/p/3FP5P5AjGq/?taken-by=happy_lil_tantan

Wow!  Is it wrong that I find such deep satisfaction that a person that received a robo call from MEchelle was ultimately the one that got this leaked to the public.  I believe she was the 1st to post the lesbian kissing photo in front of their house.  I LOVE IT!

[3 is enough]

As I clicked on yet another article that quoted Josh's statement from last week, I noticed something that I had not really seen before.  Josh states that "I confessed to my parents"  NO, he didn't confess, one of the girls went to the parents, THEN he told them what happened, which may or may not have been 100% factual.

 

I realize this is just semantics, but he leads people to believe that he, overcome with remorse, went to confess to JB and Michelle.  Because the statement has to paint him in the best light possible, and victims be damned.

[dillpickles]

This story is such a clusterf*ck i can't even believe it. Just when you think you've heard it all, there's more.

[Celia Rubenstein]

If Jim Bob and Michelle ever actually do sit down and do something approaching a real interview, I personally want to hear one question asked:

 

Your future son-in-law, Ben was living in a guest cottage on your property prior to marrying your daughter Jessa.  How would you have responded if you discovered him one night exiting the bedroom of your daughters, and upon talking to four of your daughters, you learned that they had each awakened to find the bed covers pulled back and Ben's hand under their nightgown, inside their underwear, fondling their private parts? And upon questioning, Ben admitted it was all true.  

 

What would your response have been?  

 

I really want to hear the answer to that, because I have to wonder if Ben would have been merely disciplined or turned over to his parents for discipline.  Or taken to talk to some random police officer who did nothing and the Duggars would settle for that.  Or settled for him going to work a construction job for three months.  Or if they would have encouraged their daughters to forgive Ben and allow Jessa to go ahead and marry him, and allowed him to be around the girls he had molested all the time as if nothing had ever happened. 

 

I realize that these people have this accountability thing that gets you off the hook in their world.  But I still can't wrap my head around it, I guess.  I know they obviously used their version of accountability to deal with Josh, but I just can't imagine them extending that same allowance to an outsider.  I know that is supposed to be their "way."  But still, I just can't imagine it them letting Ben back into the fold without treatment or legal consequences, or hell ... ever letting him back in at all.

 

[Wildcat]

I don't normally post here, but have been lurking for the last few days to read all of your thoughtful opinions on this.  I thought I'd share some discussions I've been monitoring over the last few days.

 

I participate in an active online community on a subject totally unrelated to TV or anything Duggar related, and this scandal has been a hot topic of discussion.  Without exception, the members of that group who are posting on the subject now want the show off the air (that wasn't the case when it first broke, but opinions have changed as more information has come to light).  This is a very diverse collection of people - some secular, some very religious.  Some liberal, some conservative.  Many people posting are those who casually watched the show and/or followed the Duggars in some fashion via People, Today, etc., and admired their wholesome image and well-behaved children.  They are now reading all about Gothard, ATI, blanket training, etc. and are absolutely horrified that they bought into any of it.  They're taking it like they were personally lied to by TLC and the Duggars, and they're angry about it.  They are all saying they won't watch the show again if it stays on the air.

 

I know it's a small sampling, but I found it interesting to see what "normal" people are thinking about the whole thing.  Not leg humpers, not Duggar haters, not Twitter trolls - just regular people.  If this is any indication, it doesn't bode well for the show.

[Chai]

I don't normally post here, but have been lurking for the last few days to read all of your thoughtful opinions on this.  I thought I'd share some discussions I've been monitoring over the last few days.

 

I participate in an active online community on a subject totally unrelated to TV or anything Duggar related, and this scandal has been a hot topic of discussion.  Without exception, the members of that group who are posting on the subject now want the show off the air (that wasn't the case when it first broke, but opinions have changed as more information has come to light).  This is a very diverse collection of people - some secular, some very religious.  Some liberal, some conservative.  Many people posting are those who casually watched the show and/or followed the Duggars in some fashion via People, Today, etc., and admired their wholesome image and well-behaved children.  They are now reading all about Gothard, ATI, blanket training, etc. and are absolutely horrified that they bought into any of it.  They're taking it like they were personally lied to by TLC and the Duggars, and they're angry about it.  They are all saying they won't watch the show again if it stays on the air.

 

I know it's a small sampling, but I found it interesting to see what "normal" people are thinking about the whole thing.  Not leg humpers, not Duggar haters, not Twitter trolls - just regular people.  If this is any indication, it doesn't bode well for the show.

Welcome! :-) 

I am so glad to hear that. That's pretty much how I feel too. 

 

I am of the mind that you don't have to be super religious to follow a morally sound life. Sexual abuse of children and incest really are seen as depraved behavior. I have zero interest in anything to do with them now.  I was a casual viewer of their show.

[Mindymoo]

I don't normally post here, but have been lurking for the last few days to read all of your thoughtful opinions on this.  I thought I'd share some discussions I've been monitoring over the last few days.

 

I participate in an active online community on a subject totally unrelated to TV or anything Duggar related, and this scandal has been a hot topic of discussion.  Without exception, the members of that group who are posting on the subject now want the show off the air (that wasn't the case when it first broke, but opinions have changed as more information has come to light).  This is a very diverse collection of people - some secular, some very religious.  Some liberal, some conservative.  Many people posting are those who casually watched the show and/or followed the Duggars in some fashion via People, Today, etc., and admired their wholesome image and well-behaved children.  They are now reading all about Gothard, ATI, blanket training, etc. and are absolutely horrified that they bought into any of it.  They're taking it like they were personally lied to by TLC and the Duggars, and they're angry about it.  They are all saying they won't watch the show again if it stays on the air.

 

I know it's a small sampling, but I found it interesting to see what "normal" people are thinking about the whole thing.  Not leg humpers, not Duggar haters, not Twitter trolls - just regular people.  If this is any indication, it doesn't bode well for the show.

I never watched the show, but did lurk around here. I also read a lot about these people and the cult that they're involved in. People can blame me wanting it off the air for being a godless lesbian all they want, but I really just think that Jim Bob, Michelle and Josh are really rotten people, and that they shouldn't continue to be rewarded with all of this money and exposure after what happened to those girls. And I don't think it will be good for them, trying to heal after this is all out in the public, if they're back on television again. When I finally admitted to my mom about the other sexual assaults I endured, I had to start the healing process all over again. It was like it had just happened yesterday. This may not be true for all victims, but it certainly happens to a lot of them. The wound is ripped open, and it needs to start healing all over again. I wish these girls would get real counseling outside of the church, with a licensed psychologist that can help them put things into perspective. 

[Lemur]

The word I've always used to describe the Duggars has been "pernicious", because it has such a nasty ring to it.  

 

Anyway, I wonder if Josh has made it back to the compound, and if so, if Clown Car put an unholy beat-down on him the minute he walked through the door. 

[Cherrio]

This is the most cogent and realistic analysis of what has happened and is happening. 

 

I'm not going to stop watching anything on TLC just because of this mess. There are some interesting programs on TLC. Why should I suffer the consequences of Josh Duggar's heinous actions?  Boycotting the entire network (which I believe no one would really do) isn't going to have any effect on any of the people in this deplorable mess.

I won't be watching any TLC anymore. This was the final straw for me.     Every single person decision either way will make a difference sooner or later. It was a huge backlash that got rid of the weekly Kate and 8 show.

         More than anything, I feel TLC leads all networks in terms of child exploitation.   Very young children are performers without a say.  I should of tuned out a long time ago.    Last year I decided no more 600 lb. Life.   What this network and producers had the mostly lower middle class , uneducated people do was off the charts.

They took desperate and very troubled people and exploited the hell out of them.

[Vivigirl10]

 

I really hope this show is cancelled without spin-offs. I have to admit, I never watched the Duggars because I sensed something wasn't right in that house from the time they first appeared on tv. Jimbob made my skin crawl; he just triggered a visceral reaction in me. The gravy train needs to stop.

Totally agree.  I'm caught with wrapping my head around a spin off for the girls.  It's almost a "chicken and the egg" type of scenario.  I understand those who want the girls to be able to continue financially benefiting from a show because they've endured something horrible and don't deserve to be punished for it by losing their livelihood.  But to give them their own show is to continue to portray these people as nice, Christian folk who do things a little bit differently and that in turn continues to perpetuate the glaring, awful LIE that has been going on for years with the Duggars already.  Why should that be allowed to continue?  Yes, the girls are brainwashed, and have no ability to think for themselves and only regurgitate what they've been taught since birth.  But it still is what to this day they BELIEVE.  The family has been exposed now for what they truly are.  And unfortunately, that includes the girls.  I for one don't want to see these hate mongers given the opportunity to continue to spread their message and be reimbursed handsomely for it.  The girls (and husbands in some instances) are all able bodied humans who should be able to find a way to support themselves beyond the TLC gravy train.