Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[drafan]

3 hours ago, Spazamanaz said:

Which brings me to my last point, I hate it when she calls Ivy 'sister' in the videos. I can't even explain how much it annoys me. 

I'm with you...want to slap parents who say that....but I've heard worse...."Sistah"....that would be a double slap. And no, it's not Southern...it's just stupid and annoying.

 

2 hours ago, Madtown said:

Yeah, the 4 and 5 year old shouldn't even have them, but let's get one for a 1 year old. She'll probably get one on her next birthday.

...not unless there's a dishtowel hanging off the end of it.

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

I agree that kids have to learn the concept of the birthday person having their special day.   That also helps explain why it wasn't only Ivy's age that made it difficult for her to even begin to grasp the idea it was Henry's turn -- it went on day, after day, after day, after day, after day.   Especially for a very young one the idea of being the special birthDAY person really gets undercut when it goes on ad infinitum.

The worst part about it is Jessa only does this stupid "Birthday Week" because she's desperate for social media content. I've seen both kids' videos and neither child appears any happier or more excited than if Jessa had done a simple one-day celebration like everyone else. 

[GeeGolly]

I grew up in a heavily Jewish town. I can't count the discussions my friends and I had over gift giving with Christmas versus Hanukkah. Presents all on one day, or over 8 days. I think it really is about the build up, the anticipation, and Christmas usually one out.

I'm sure the Duggar kids would prefer a one day celebration as well. But Jessa is Jessa and its about what Jessa wants and nobody else.

[rue721]

The thing about all these people is that they’re bored shitless. It’s a birthday week because there is literally nothing else going on, might as well make a thing out of a kid’s birthday, string it out for a week. Might as well make a thing out of trying out a tent inside. Might as well throw multiple showers for the same event, literally put up a banner and welcome out of town guests for a dental visit, throw a fake harvest festival like you’re a character on a teen drama, etc. 

They’re doing all this because they literally have nothing to fill their days and they’re bored bored bored.

The waste of human potential, good lord.

[GeeGolly]

Did anyone else think its weird how the kids would automatically line up on the couch when it was gift time? Even Ivy would climb on up there and stare at Jessa's phone.

And for at least the second time on film, Jessa had to tell Ben to comfort his kid. It makes me think Jessa has rules about when and when not to, respond to a kid's crying and Ben didn't want to screw up. Or maybe he just doesn't hear the crying anymore.

[Temperance]

12 hours ago, Suzn said:

I guess Henry's birthday gifts and party really bother me... Another thing - I am so afraid that the dinosaur book with people riding them is presented as scientific fact.  Even if meant as fantasy, what a great way to confuse small children.

I kind of agree with this, but millions of small children probably did watch the Flintstones from a young age and turn out fine. 

[beckie]

The video is back up. Looks like it might have been a bit more tightly edited at the end, but I'm not sure.

[Tikichick]

7 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Did anyone else think its weird how the kids would automatically line up on the couch when it was gift time? Even Ivy would climb on up there and stare at Jessa's phone.

And for at least the second time on film, Jessa had to tell Ben to comfort his kid. It makes me think Jessa has rules about when and when not to, respond to a kid's crying and Ben didn't want to screw up. Or maybe he just doesn't hear the crying anymore.

The kids definitely know the drill with the phone being pointed at them.   Even my neighbor's dog gets annoyed when she has the camera pointed at her too often and she gives a certain peeved look that is hilarious.

As far as the dynamic in the household, IDK, but it's not good.   I did notice Ben at one point distinctly walked off down the hallway during the video, coffee cup and satchel/briefcase in hand.   Maybe he's annoyed at having to be a circus bear on command in yet another of her videos when he has actual things to do and it's a struggle between them?    It could be it was keeping him from getting things done during a time she's supposed to be taking care of the kids while he takes care of other matters.   Jessa's only concept of respecting a schedule is doing things when and how she feels like it.   I really think Jill having her eyes opened to living on a schedule took a lot of conflict out of her household and relationship with Derrick. 

[GeeGolly]

51 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

The kids definitely know the drill with the phone being pointed at them.   Even my neighbor's dog gets annoyed when she has the camera pointed at her too often and she gives a certain peeved look that is hilarious.

As far as the dynamic in the household, IDK, but it's not good.   I did notice Ben at one point distinctly walked off down the hallway during the video, coffee cup and satchel/briefcase in hand.   Maybe he's annoyed at having to be a circus bear on command in yet another of her videos when he has actual things to do and it's a struggle between them?    It could be it was keeping him from getting things done during a time she's supposed to be taking care of the kids while he takes care of other matters.   Jessa's only concept of respecting a schedule is doing things when and how she feels like it.   I really think Jill having her eyes opened to living on a schedule took a lot of conflict out of her household and relationship with Derrick. 

I noticed that too. I felt it was staged. Ben was playing the part of a husband/dad with a job.

[farmgal4]

21 hours ago, Suzn said:

I guess Henry's birthday gifts and party really bother me... Another thing - I am so afraid that the dinosaur book with people riding them is presented as scientific fact.  Even if meant as fantasy, what a great way to confuse small children.

You do know that certain fundies (the Duggars) believe that dinosaurs were on Noah’s Ark, don’t you?  It was brought up on the show when they visited the Ark in KY.

[Suzn]

1 hour ago, farmgal4 said:

You do know that certain fundies (the Duggars) believe that dinosaurs were on Noah’s Ark, don’t you?  It was brought up on the show when they visited the Ark in KY.

I'm aware of that, but wondered where Jessa and Ben were on that.

[Nysha]

1 hour ago, farmgal4 said:

You do know that certain fundies (the Duggars) believe that dinosaurs were on Noah’s Ark, don’t you?  It was brought up on the show when they visited the Ark in KY.

I was taught that dinosaurs were too big to go on the ark so they all drowned during the flood. Oh, and carbon dating is a liberal lie.

[crazy8s]

I do believe Jessa said in the video it was a book about dinosaurs with adventures and people riding them in a make believe land or something like that. It was not presented to the boy as a book of facts.

[Tikichick]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I noticed that too. I felt it was staged. Ben was playing the part of a husband/dad with a job.

Entirely plausible.

[farmgal4]

1 hour ago, Suzn said:

I'm aware of that, but wondered where Jessa and Ben were on that.

Not sure about Ben, but Jessa probably still believes everything that Boob and MEchelle taught her to believe.

[awaken]

6 hours ago, Nysha said:

I was taught that dinosaurs were too big to go on the ark so they all drowned during the flood. Oh, and carbon dating is a liberal lie.

Ha, yes, I distinctly remember our lesson mocking carbon dating as a liberal lie at fundie summer camp. By a totally uneducated sheltered person who had no clue. And we all bought it because a person in authority said so. 

[Joan of Argh]

8 hours ago, Nysha said:

I was taught that dinosaurs were too big to go on the ark so they all drowned during the flood. Oh, and carbon dating is a liberal lie.

That sounds like my youngest brothers wife, she was raised in a cult and taught that the world is 7,000 years old and the dinosaurs couldn't fit on the ark so they drowned.... She was also taught that carbon dating is a lie and rainbows are what God invented to reassure humans that he'd never flood the world again.... So whenever you see a rainbow that's gods promise and you don't need to start building a big boat. 🌈 

 

 

 

[Albanyguy]

7 hours ago, Joan of Argh said:

rainbows are what God invented to reassure humans that he'd never flood the world again.... So whenever you see a rainbow that's gods promise and you don't need to start building a big boat. 🌈 

Yes, but that doesn't mean we're off the hook. God promised that there wouldn't be another flood, but he threatened something worse: "God gave Noah the rainbow sign. No more water, the fire next time".

[lascuba]

 

 

On 2/11/2021 at 4:58 AM, GeeGolly said:

Did anyone else think its weird how the kids would automatically line up on the couch when it was gift time? Even Ivy would climb on up there and stare at Jessa's phone.

And for at least the second time on film, Jessa had to tell Ben to comfort his kid. It makes me think Jessa has rules about when and when not to, respond to a kid's crying and Ben didn't want to screw up. Or maybe he just doesn't hear the crying anymore.

I think it's because Ben does very little with the kids unless he's on camera. It's like that time he talked about babysitting Spurgeon and Jessa corrected him about fathers not babysitting their own children. He looked pissed. I've always felt that Ben is deeply resentful of not being their true righteous selves on camera. Childcare is women's work, why is Jessa making him pretend otherwise just to placate the heathens?

[Tikichick]

3 hours ago, lascuba said:

 

 

I think it's because Ben does very little with the kids unless he's on camera. It's like that time he talked about babysitting Spurgeon and Jessa corrected him about fathers not babysitting their own children. He looked pissed. I've always felt that Ben is deeply resentful of not being their true righteous selves on camera. Childcare is women's work, why is Jessa making him pretend otherwise just to placate the heathens?

That's interesting.   I've always had the feeling Ben does quite a bit of the "wimmen's work" when it comes to home and children.  If he's been handling teaching at the TTH, his own studies, and trying to get his start in preaching, along with helping out on the homefront I'm not sure how he would have the time to pursue gainful employment.   If they're living on income seen as Jessa-generated it may bother him.   If she's ordering him about the way her personality seems he may feel stuck -- kind of like a lot of women feel in similar situations. 

[louannems]

On 2/10/2021 at 8:26 AM, farmgal4 said:

That’s what it boils down to.  They’re too damned lazy to even shove the present into a gift bag, which could be recycled year after year.  That’s just pathetic.

And I'm sure Jessa is weeks behind on her laundry and didn't have a clean stack of pillow cases neatly folded in her linen closet.  I can picture Jessa just ripping one off the bed pillow and shoving the gift inside.  I can almost see Ivy's spit up on it!

[doodlebug]

1 minute ago, louannems said:

And I'm sure Jessa is weeks behind on her laundry and didn't have a clean stack of pillow cases neatly folded in her linen closet.  I can picture Jessa just ripping one off the bed pillow and shoving the gift inside.  I can almost see Ivy's spit up on it!

You got that right!  If she has to use pillowcases, why not buy a new set of sheets for Henry's bed with dinosaurs or trucks on them and use those to wrap his gifts?  He'd probably love to have special sheets that are his alone and it would be a nice birthday custom for the family.

[libgirl2]

On 2/9/2021 at 8:19 PM, Nysha said:

Yes, Anna looks pretty pregnant. I expected her to have a baby this year, but in the fall. 

Yep, pregnant! 

[BitterApple]

6 hours ago, lascuba said:

 Childcare is women's work, why is Jessa making him pretend otherwise just to placate the heathens?

Because Jessa is Lord of the castle and Bin is the palace eunuch. I feel like Bin deliberately ignoring Jessa on camera is his way of publicly giving her the middle finger and she's too clueless to pick up on it.

[Rabbittron]

On 2/11/2021 at 12:29 PM, farmgal4 said:

You do know that certain fundies (the Duggars) believe that dinosaurs were on Noah’s Ark, don’t you?  It was brought up on the show when they visited the Ark in KY.

You mean that the dinosaurs weren't on the Noah's ark?

[Ohiopirate02]

4 minutes ago, Rabbittron said:

You mean that the dinosaurs weren't on the Noah's ark?

They were hiding, playing silly games, kicking and splashing as the rain was pouring, oh them silly dinosaurs.

I assume, since that's what the unicorns were up to.

[FizzyPuff]

22 hours ago, farmgal4 said:

Not sure about Ben, but Jessa probably still believes everything that Boob and MEchelle taught her to believe.

I’m not sure that Jessa does believe everything she was taught, Jessa seems smart to me and I reckon she thinks that a lot of her family beliefs are ridiculous but who knows I could be wrong, but I think she just goes with it because she doesn’t know what else to do. 

[doodlebug]

1 minute ago, FizzyPuff said:

I’m not sure that Jessa does believe everything she was taught, Jessa seems smart to me and I reckon she thinks that a lot of her family beliefs are ridiculous but who knows I could be wrong, but I think she just goes with it because she doesn’t know what else to do. 

I think she goes with it because she knows she and Bin cannot possibly support their family without staying in JB's good graces.  She is certainly smart enough to know that.

[crazy8s]

26 minutes ago, Rabbittron said:

You mean that the dinosaurs weren't on the Noah's ark?

only in Kentucky

[GeeGolly]

While I agree Jessa's does a lot of acting and staging to keep her family on TV, I believe Jessa is savvy, but not all that smart, much like her father and Josh. I also think Jessa believes 100% the non-Gothard parts of what she's been taught and some of the Gothard BS, too.

And she's teaching her kids the same thing. Spurgie challenged Ben, when Ben said a downed tree was sooo big, Spurgie's response was, not bigger than God, Daddy. And just recently Ivy saw the edge of a book as Henry was pulling it out of the pillow case and she said, a Bible. Neither of those statements were staged or coached.

IMO, Jessa is still very Fundy. Maybe more so than some of her siblings.

[farmgal4]

3 hours ago, crazy8s said:

only in Kentucky

I’m sure that you’re not referring to this KY gal. 😉

[rue721]

Jessa seems smart to me, too, but she also seems very cowed by her religion and her parents. It wouldn’t surprise me if she’s very into practicing her religion, because going through those motions and saying those rote words are “safe,” it’s her comfort zone. And Jessa doesn’t like venturing out of her comfort zone. Something else that I have noticed about Jessa is that she is VERY tight with a buck, and to me that also speaks to a similar kind of insecurity and even learned helplessness. But what do I know, I’ve never spoken to Jessa in my life and never will.

Anyway, Spurgeon seems very religious and even spiritual in his own right, and his parents are clearly encouraging that, but he’s a very young child. Ideas that are appealing to a five year old might not always seems so great, I really have no idea who he might grow up to be. Also, I think there is a lot of tension in that house right now, between his parents, and he’s old enough to pick up on that and feel stressed because of it. 

[Adeejay]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

IMO, Jessa is still very Fundy. Maybe more so than some of her siblings.

I agree.  It was said that of all the Duggar kids, Jill was the biggest Kool-Aid drinker.  However, based on what we've seen, I believe it's Jessa. She more than her siblings, seems keenly aware of how her family is perceived.  She is leery of "outsiders" and delights in giving the metaphorical middle finger. She will never wear pants nor will she give birth in a hospital.  Just because. 

[emmawoodhouse]

50 minutes ago, Adeejay said:

I agree.  It was said that of all the Duggar kids, Jill was the biggest Kool-Aid drinker.  However, based on what we've seen, I believe it's Jessa. She more than her siblings, seems keenly aware of how her family is perceived.  She is leery of "outsiders" and delights in giving the metaphorical middle finger. She will never wear pants nor will she give birth in a hospital.  Just because. 

She does wear joggers. In public, even. Baby steps...

[Absolom]

I think Jill fell to the the paradigm that it's frequently the biggest followers who leave the fold.  When they get disillusioned, they really get disillusioned and can't resolve the conflicts and then can't stay in the cult any more.  The cognitive dissonance was too great for Jill and someone recognized the problem and helped her get into therapy.  It can happen with the true believers if they see one or two cracks.

[lascuba]

On 2/12/2021 at 3:42 PM, doodlebug said:

I think she goes with it because she knows she and Bin cannot possibly support their family without staying in JB's good graces.  She is certainly smart enough to know that.

I recently came across an old clip from when she and Ben were engaged, and Jessa was so openly, gloriously contemptuous of JB that I wondered if she believed that she was on her way out and thrilled about it. And, if that was the case, I wonder at what point after her wedding did she realize that her husband's sole plan was to to ride the Duggar coattails into some kind of financial "independence" and she therefore had to please JB because she wasn't going anywhere.

I don't think Jessa would have totally broken with her family, but I do think she expected to be more independent from them that she is.

[Future Cat Lady]

2 hours ago, lascuba said:

I recently came across an old clip from when she and Ben were engaged, and Jessa was so openly, gloriously contemptuous of JB that I wondered if she believed that she was on her way out and thrilled about it. And, if that was the case, I wonder at what point after her wedding did she realize that her husband's sole plan was to to ride the Duggar coattails into some kind of financial "independence" and she therefore had to please JB because she wasn't going anywhere.

I don't think Jessa would have totally broken with her family, but I do think she expected to be more independent from them that she is.

If that’s what she was expecting, she’s not that smart because Ben had no job. Where does she thinks money comes from?

[Zella]

12 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

If that’s what she was expecting, she’s not that smart because Ben had no job. Where does she thinks money comes from?

This is a good point. I think Jessa thought she was the "breakout star" before Jinger and Jeremy declared themselves that and just assumed she was onto bigger and better things, just by virtue of being Jessa. Reality is a bitch, though. I think a lot of Jessa's problems are that she was a big fish in a small pond. She was considered "the hot one" and was one of the older girls, so (alongside her other sisters in that age range), she got more attention in general than the younger kids or the interchangeable brothers. She also had one of the more outwardly stronger personalities so stood out.

I think she thought that would always be the case, but the fact of the matter is she and Ben are both very bland and not terribly interesting, so people lost interest pretty quickly. My guess is that she is likely pretty irritated that Jill and Jinger seem to get the most attention (via family estrangement for Jill and moving to California for Jinger). It strikes me as big case of "But I did everything right and towed the party line, and all I got was this shitty house, some kids, and this guy I'm stuck with for life." 

[DangerousMinds]

18 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

If that’s what she was expecting, she’s not that smart because Ben had no job. Where does she thinks money comes from?

And she married a teenager.

[madpsych78]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

This is a good point. I think Jessa thought she was the "breakout star" before Jinger and Jeremy declared themselves that and just assumed she was onto bigger and better things, just by virtue of being Jessa. Reality is a bitch, though. I think a lot of Jessa's problems are that she was a big fish in a small pond. She was considered "the hot one" and was one of the older girls, so (alongside her other sisters in that age range), she got more attention in general than the younger kids or the interchangeable brothers. She also had one of the more outwardly stronger personalities so stood out.

I think she thought that would always be the case, but the fact of the matter is she and Ben are both very bland and not terribly interesting, so people lost interest pretty quickly. My guess is that she is likely pretty irritated that Jill and Jinger seem to get the most attention (via family estrangement for Jill and moving to California for Jinger). It strikes me as big case of "But I did everything right and towed the party line, and all I got was this shitty house, some kids, and this guy I'm stuck with for life." 

And, Jana is also in the top 3 for most attention due to her love life (or lack thereof).

[GeeGolly]

I think Jessa had a lot of things going on when she defiantly told JB that her and Ben were marrying, no matter what. But I really think it came down to the fact she was sheltered and immature.

A good portion of mainstream kids in their late teens and early 20s don't think adulthood and finances through either. A lot of young adults think getting a job is easy and that any job is enough. I'm guessing in Jessa's eyes, the fact that Ben had had a job and his own car was enough to think they were all set. 

But I don't see Jessa (or any of her siblings) wanting to marry as an indicator she wanted to escape her family. Growing up and marrying, or growing up and moving out, is kind of a given, Fundy or not. Its part of the American script. Its seen as a goal and an accomplishment.

I don't think any of the Duggar 19 wants to escape Fundy life or their family, not even Jill.

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by GeeGolly

[ozziemom]

For Jessa getting married is just about the only thing she had any say on. Every other life decision was made for her. 

[satrunrose]

There's also the complicating factor that Gothard doesn't believe in adolescence. So for Jessa, the idea of a time in one's life to be wild, explore and have some fun (and in which one is discouraged from making life-altering decisions around marriage and childbirth) isn't a thing.  Plus there's the whole "watch someone do it once and you're qualified" Duggar philosophy of job training. It doesn't surprise me that she expected teenaged, horny Ben to be able to give her a life that the rest of us know was totally impractical (and will only become more so when the show $$$ dries up). 

Edited February 14, 2021 by satrunrose

[lascuba]

I don't think Jessa wanted to be completely free of her family, she just wanted a new headship so she didn't have to be in JB's immediate,  embarrassing orbit. Because she was always the only one with enough sense to find his public antics embarrassing. 

The more I think about, I really think that the Josh scandals completely derailed her and Ben's plans and that's why she's stuck. Iirc, she was getting fairly regular speaking gigs independent of her family, with Ben tagging along and inserting himself even though he wasn't the one hired. I'm not sure if those gigs would have kept coming if Joshley never happened, but it might have been their plan to make their own income that way while building an audience for Ben's preacher's ambitions. That plan fell through, and being young, stupid, and arrogant, it didn't occur to them to have a backup. 

 

[ozziemom]

1 hour ago, lascuba said:

I don't think Jessa wanted to be completely free of her family, she just wanted a new headship so she didn't have to be in JB's immediate,  embarrassing orbit. Because she was always the only one with enough sense to find his public antics embarrassing. 

The more I think about, I really think that the Josh scandals completely derailed her and Ben's plans and that's why she's stuck. Iirc, she was getting fairly regular speaking gigs independent of her family, with Ben tagging along and inserting himself even though he wasn't the one hired. I'm not sure if those gigs would have kept coming if Joshley never happened, but it might have been their plan to make their own income that way while building an audience for Ben's preacher's ambitions. That plan fell through, and being young, stupid, and arrogant, it didn't occur to them to have a backup. 

 

This rings true to me about Bin and Jessa. Bin seemed to be very preachy in his SM posts until someone reigned him in. They probably envisioned spreading their message all over the country, traveling around like the Duggars did before Josh scandal. TLC sent them on a fancy honeymoon and they assumed that was just the start of their fabulous life.

[BigBingerBro]

[crazy8s]

any more questions on whether Jessa treats Ben as one of the children since he is dressed to match the boys, while she is not dressed to match Ivy?

[Temperance]

11 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I think Jessa had a lot of things going on when she defiantly told JB that her and Ben were marrying, no matter what. But I really think it came down to the fact she was sheltered and immature.

A good portion of mainstream kids in their late teens and early 20s don't think adulthood and finances through either. A lot of young adults think getting a job is easy and that any job is enough. I'm guessing in Jessa's eyes, the fact that Ben had had a job and his own car was enough to think they were all set. 

But I don't see Jessa (or any of her siblings) wanting to marry as an indicator she wanted to escape her family. Growing up and marrying, or growing up and moving out, is kind of a given, Fundy or not. Its part of the American script. Its seen as a goal and an accomplishment.

I don't think any of the Duggar 19 wants to escape Fundy life or their family, not even Jill.

 

Jill has escaped imo. God, if it's true, what a sad, terrible thing to say about those kids! 

I think Jessa wanted to move out and start adult. 

The only people I know who got married that young were fundies themselves. 

I wish I was on a beach like that. 

[GeeGolly]

11 minutes ago, Temperance said:

Jill has escaped imo. God, if it's true, what a sad, terrible thing to say about those kids! 

I think Jessa wanted to move out and start adult. 

The only people I know who got married that young were fundies themselves. 

I wish I was on a beach like that. 

I'm not sure what terrible thing I said.

I go back and forth thinking its sad, and really not so sad. Their lives are certainly not my picket fence, but in compared to some, their lives aren't that bad. To me its very sad if they're are unhappy and feel trapped (which IMO, they're not), but if they're living the lives they want, then they're doing pretty good. Well for now anyway. Who knows what will happen if TLC is their main source of support and that goes away. I'm guessing some of them might struggle financially, and that's no fun.

But overall, none of them are living the old school life they lived in the TTH. None of the wives appear oppressed, the guys seem to be doing what they want, they're exposed daily to the trappings of mainstream life and somehow they all seem to have an income. And they all seem relatively happy.

[ozziemom]

Are these pictures from last week when they attended wedding in Florida?