The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

[DangerousMinds]

4 hours ago, Zahdii said:

Babies are cute, but how many pictures of the same baby in different outfits and headgear can the average person take?  At this point all the Felicity pics are starting to feel like ads in a magazine or on a website I glance at and move on. 

While she's endlessly fascinating to her parents, as it should be, I'm bored with it all.  I see more of her than I do of my own grandkid.  Poor kid is what, three months old and already overexposed.

Exactly! Pink sweater AND hood, plus girlie head bow. Check!

3 hours ago, Christina87 said:

Today Grace Church Laredo posted a live feed of Jeremy's sermon. I watched it for like five minutes, and literally couldn't figure out what the crap he was saying. It was even worse than Bin! He literally couldn't string a sentence together. The whole thing I saw was, "we see...the Bible tells us...according to...well, you know...faith...in the words of John...we go back to...faith...ummmm...in the Bible..."

To those of you who have seen his sermons before, are they always like this?! His lack of even putting together a cogent thought was frightening. He didn't say anything that made sense while I watched. 

Annnnnnd it thoroughly convinced me that he will never, ever be a televangelist!

Was he preaching TO anyone? I’m not convinced he has a congregation. How will anyone be converted or learn anything if no one can comprehend his points?

Edited December 16, 2018 by DangerousMinds

[Absolom]

7 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Was he preaching TO anyone? I’m not convinced he has a congregation. How will anyone be converted or learn anything if no one can comprehend his points?

Maybe the world is safer this way.

[Nysha]

4 hours ago, Zahdii said:

Babies are cute, but how many pictures of the same baby in different outfits and headgear can the average person take?  At this point all the Felicity pics are starting to feel like ads in a magazine or on a website I glance at and move on. 

When the first baby is an incredibly cute little girl that Mama gets to dress up in all the outfits she wasn't allowed to wear as a child...infinite pictures will be taken. Felicity's every grin will be plastered on social media until Jessa gives birth to an ugly baby nobody wants to see or she has too many kids to be dressing and posing them like little dolls.

[lookeyloo]

1 minute ago, Nysha said:

When the first baby is an incredibly cute little girl that Mama gets to dress up in all the outfits she wasn't allowed to wear as a child...infinite pictures will be taken. Felicity's every grin will be plastered on social media until Jessa gives birth to an ugly baby nobody wants to see or she has too many kids to be dressing and posing them like little dolls.

Remember how long it took Henry to grow into his cuteness?  He was an interesting looking small baby.  Very cute now.

[Sew Sumi]

48 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Exactly! Pink sweater AND hood, plus girlie head bow. Check!

Was he preaching TO anyone? I’m not convinced he has a congregation. How will anyone be converted or learn anything if no one can comprehend his points?

A guy kept walking in camera view this morning, so there's at least one who missed the first 5 minutes of Jeremy's spiel today (about the sacrifices of missionaries...mentioned Jim Elliot  by name...go to John 3). Don't worry about me becoming a convert; I didn't last much past the guy livening up the sermon before my head was ready to explode. 

[farmgal4]

9 hours ago, Zahdii said:

Babies are cute, but how many pictures of the same baby in different outfits and headgear can the average person take?  At this point all the Felicity pics are starting to feel like ads in a magazine or on a website I glance at and move on. 

While she's endlessly fascinating to her parents, as it should be, I'm bored with it all.  I see more of her than I do of my own grandkid.  Poor kid is what, three months old and already overexposed.

Au contraire!  There can never be too many baby pics!  I’m so baby-crazy that I can look at baby pics for days.  Am I the only one?

[farmgal4]

9 hours ago, Christina87 said:

Today Grace Church Laredo posted a live feed of Jeremy's sermon. I watched it for like five minutes, and literally couldn't figure out what the crap he was saying. It was even worse than Bin! He literally couldn't string a sentence together. The whole thing I saw was, "we see...the Bible tells us...according to...well, you know...faith...in the words of John...we go back to...faith...ummmm...in the Bible..."

To those of you who have seen his sermons before, are they always like this?! His lack of even putting together a cogent thought was frightening. He didn't say anything that made sense while I watched. 

Annnnnnd it thoroughly convinced me that he will never, ever be a televangelist!

Yeah, I’ve heard bits and pieces of a couple of his sermons, and they’re pretty awful.  Maybe he should try his hand at writing, because I’m pretty sure that preaching is not his calling. 

[PikaScrewChu]

13 hours ago, ginger90 said:

"I'm going to get you back for putting all these fucking bows on my head before I could talk. I will be in further correspondence with Sam and Yaaay on how to get out of this circus once I can crawl."

[farmgal4]

8 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

In a word, Yes.

I watched part of a recent one, too, and -- believe it or not -- he was actually much better than he used to be.....In addition to his sermons' overall incoherence, he used to always talk in this kinda creepy monotonic whisper (and I'm not kidding) throughout his very long spiels. Now he sounds more like somebody who is currently among the living, at least.

He doesn't seem to have gotten any more coherent, smart or interested in actual communication, though. And since he's clearly been working to improve,  I'd say he's probably hit a plateau....

ETA: Since I'm pretty sure Jer basically is Grace Church Laredo, he's almost certainly the one posting his sermons up there. ... Which suggests to me that he actually thinks he's good. Because would the Jer we see on social media really post 50-minute-long videos of himself if he knew they sucked?  And if he does think he's good at this point, then that's even worse news for his job prospects, seems to me. 

100% sure that Jinger is telling him how fabulous his sermons are and that he is the next Billy Graham in the making.

[DangerousMinds]

2 hours ago, farmgal4 said:

100% sure that Jinger is telling him how fabulous his sermons are and that he is the next Billy Graham in the making.

But she doesn’t really understand them either.

[Mindthinkr]

19 hours ago, Christina87 said:

Annnnnnd it thoroughly convinced me that he will never, ever be a televangelist!

Poor Jinger. That means he’ll never be able to afford to buy her a private jet Ike Joel Olsteen did for his wife.  

[Vaysh]

9 hours ago, farmgal4 said:

100% sure that Jinger is telling him how fabulous his sermons are and that he is the next Billy Graham in the making.

Jinger spent her childhood listening to Boob's rambling "sermons" during home church and he isn't able to string together a coherent sentence either. I'm pretty sure she thinks that's how sermons are supposed to sound.

[Christina87]

3 hours ago, Vaysh said:

Jinger spent her childhood listening to Boob's rambling "sermons" during home church and he isn't able to string together a coherent sentence either. I'm pretty sure she thinks that's how sermons are supposed to sound.

At least Boob had SOME small degree of charisma, though. It's weird because jereME has such a personality in real life, but he looked like a scared lamb on the way to the slaughter in his sermon. I kind of expected his sermon to be crap, but his delivery to be a selling point. I'm unsure why exactly he looks and acts so hesitant in the pulpit. I'm pretty unsure why anyone goes to that church, lol. 

[bythelake]

8 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

Poor Jinger. That means he’ll never be able to afford to buy her a private jet Ike Joel Olsteen did for his wife.  

Or a Lamborghini like Pastor John Gray just did for his wife. 

[DangerousMinds]

8 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

Poor Jinger. That means he’ll never be able to afford to buy her a private jet Ike Joel Olsteen did for his wife.  

And they say churches shouldn’t be taxed.

5 hours ago, Christina87 said:

At least Boob had SOME small degree of charisma, though. It's weird because jereME has such a personality in real life, but he looked like a scared lamb on the way to the slaughter in his sermon. I kind of expected his sermon to be crap, but his delivery to be a selling point. I'm unsure why exactly he looks and acts so hesitant in the pulpit. I'm pretty unsure why anyone goes to that church, lol. 

I’m not convinced anyone does!

[doodlebug]

7 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

And they say churches shouldn’t be taxed.

I’m not convinced anyone does!

I saw John Gray on TV.  He claimed that he purchased the $200,000 Lamborghini out of his own funds with proceeds from the books he has written as well as his TV show on OWN. None of the money came from the church.  John Gray learned from the master, he was the assistant pastor at Joel Osteen's church before striking out on his own.  He is also an advocate of Osteen's 'prosperity gospel' which claims that Jesus wants them to be wealthy and it is a sign of his approval that they live large.

[doodlebug]

Double post. Sorry.

Edited December 17, 2018 by doodlebug

[Churchhoney]

19 hours ago, farmgal4 said:

Yeah, I’ve heard bits and pieces of a couple of his sermons, and they’re pretty awful.  Maybe he should try his hand at writing, because I’m pretty sure that preaching is not his calling. 

I expect that the problem with writing is that it's even harder to get a captive audience! 

And I think he's counting on having one. lol

He'd probably better count on having one. 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Churchhoney

[Sew Sumi]

Maybe that's partly why Jeremy is cozying up to John MacArthur. He has built in publishing. 

[Vaysh]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

I saw John Gray on TV.  He claimed that he purchased the $200,000 Lamborghini out of his own funds with proceeds from the books he has written as well as his TV show on OWN. None of the money came from the church.  John Gray learned from the master, he was the assistant pastor at Joel Osteen's church before striking out on his own.  He is also an advocate of Osteen's 'prosperity gospel' which claims that Jesus wants them to be wealthy and it is a sign of his approval that they live large.

Have these people... read the Bible? Because I'm fairly certain that's not in the Bible. I mean, I'm an atheist heathen and all so you probably shouldn't take my word for it, but didn't Jesus have some choice words about rich people and eyes of needles and also about giving all your money to the poor or some such?

Is Gothardism part of the prosperity gospel ideology btw? Is Jeremy?

[DangerousMinds]

8 minutes ago, Vaysh said:

Have these people... read the Bible? Because I'm fairly certain that's not in the Bible. I mean, I'm an atheist heathen and all so you probably shouldn't take my word for it, but didn't Jesus have some choice words about rich people and eyes of needles and also about giving all your money to the poor or some such?

Is Gothardism part of the prosperity gospel ideology btw? Is Jeremy?

Raised Catholic now atheist here too. I seem to recall that eye of the needle thing as well!

[NotFundie]

3 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Raised Catholic now atheist here too. I seem to recall that eye of the needle thing as well!

Just an aside:  I went to a Baptist college (that ended up cancelling mandatory religion classes - after I'd already taken them.)  Anyways - the professor said that many old walled cities had a small opening, just large enough for a person to squeeze through, for private messengers to the leader/king and that tiny opening was called "the eye of the needle".  So, it would be difficult for a camel to get through but not as crazy as trying to shove one through the eye of a real needle.

 

Now back to Jeremy and Jingle...  The baby is adorable but I'm tired of seeing her in the assorted headwear.  Give it a rest, Jing.

[Vaysh]

53 minutes ago, NotFundie said:

Just an aside:  I went to a Baptist college (that ended up cancelling mandatory religion classes - after I'd already taken them.)  Anyways - the professor said that many old walled cities had a small opening, just large enough for a person to squeeze through, for private messengers to the leader/king and that tiny opening was called "the eye of the needle".  So, it would be difficult for a camel to get through but not as crazy as trying to shove one through the eye of a real needle.

 

Now back to Jeremy and Jingle...  The baby is adorable but I'm tired of seeing her in the assorted headwear.  Give it a rest, Jing.

Yeah, that is the usual explanation and it does have merit. However, whether it's the eye of an actual needle or just a really narrow gate I think the message still stands. Rich people will, according to Jesus, have a harder time getting into heaven and that pretty much completely contradicts the prosperity gospel. I feel that the narrow gate explanation tends to be used to handwave away what Jesus actually meant a lot of the time. But then again I feel that Jeremy and the Duggars and their ilk tend to handwave away a lot of things their god tells them to do whenever it is inconvenient to them.

[Jynnan tonnix]

9 hours ago, Christina87 said:

At least Boob had SOME small degree of charisma, though. It's weird because jereME has such a personality in real life, but he looked like a scared lamb on the way to the slaughter in his sermon. I kind of expected his sermon to be crap, but his delivery to be a selling point. I'm unsure why exactly he looks and acts so hesitant in the pulpit. I'm pretty unsure why anyone goes to that church, lol. 

I rather suspect that, if he is honestly sincere (which he may or may not be...I have not been able to decide), he might see his real-life personality as loaded with all that same sin nature he feels the need to warn us of. His sermons expound on the ideals we should strive toward, but since humanity "has" that unavoidable sin nature, the best he feels he can do is give as much ammunition as he can toward defeating it in his sermons while still recognizing that he is helpless against completely vanquishing it in day-to-day life. How much he actually puts toward that goal in his own life is, however, still up for debate.

[heckkitty]

23 hours ago, farmgal4 said:

Au contraire!  There can never be too many baby pics!  I’m so baby-crazy that I can look at baby pics for days.  Am I the only one?

 You are not.

[NotFundie]

3 hours ago, Vaysh said:

I feel that the narrow gate explanation tends to be used to handwave away what Jesus actually meant a lot of the time. But then again I feel that Jeremy and the Duggars and their ilk tend to handwave away a lot of things their god tells them to do whenever it is inconvenient to them.

I agree. I don’t understand how the prosperity gospel gained a foothold. It’s pretty much against basic Christian principles.

[Temperance]

2 hours ago, NotFundie said:

I agree. I don’t understand how the prosperity gospel gained a foothold. It’s pretty much against basic Christian principles.

It's an very old doctrine that keeps coming back. and it's rotten to the core. Just remember properity gospel was a favorite of American slaveowners, because they could us it to justify their lifestyle.

[Churchhoney]

13 hours ago, Vaysh said:

Have these people... read the Bible? Because I'm fairly certain that's not in the Bible. I mean, I'm an atheist heathen and all so you probably shouldn't take my word for it, but didn't Jesus have some choice words about rich people and eyes of needles and also about giving all your money to the poor or some such?

Is Gothardism part of the prosperity gospel ideology btw? Is Jeremy?

No. Neither is. .......

But prosperity gospel is just the flavor of "theology" some grifty types use to win over the congregation, really, I'd say. They promise the poor schmucks that all the faithful will be in on the prosperity if they do things right -- so they can get them in the door and then take their money for themselves. 

Gothard has had a bit of that in his "teachings." In the past, at least, he used to pitch his ideas as a key to getting really good, high-level jobs. I remember some disenchanted Gothardites saying they were told that as teenagers and young adults they might find themselves being offered high-powered jobs out of the blue by strangers sitting next to them on airplanes or something because their Gothardy upbringing had made them shine with such greatness. .... Not happenin'. 

By and large, though, telling people God would make them prosperous doesn't seem to have been a major focus for Gothard. And it's not in Jer's Calvinism/Baptist combo theology either. They're just among the many guys for whom the thrill of "ministry" lies largely in the ego boost of being up there in the pulpit telling other people who are awestruck by your learning what they need to do, I think. Feeling powerful and influential. Having a lot of eyes looking up at you to heed your word provides nice ego reinforcement.

Of course, it also seems true that most if not all branches of American Protestantism have viewed earthly success and prominence as some sign of godliness. From the pilgrims forward. (Protestantism started as a way to liberate the people from a church-and-king idea that were aligned ABOVE them... so.... makes sense, really...) That idea lurks somewhere in most American churches, it seems. But the prosperity gospel took it to a more nutso place. 

Edited December 18, 2018 by Churchhoney

[Churchhoney]

9 hours ago, NotFundie said:

I agree. I don’t understand how the prosperity gospel gained a foothold. It’s pretty much against basic Christian principles.

I think it took hold because it promises people what we want, doesn't it? Prosperity in return for being good. ....

I mean, who really wants to practice faith and charity and virtue and self-control all the time and in return get bupkis for yourself? ... Or only get good stuff in return for your virtue after you're dead?

And even the good stuff Christians are promised when dead doesn't sound that good to most people, when it comes right down to it. Hearing harp music and praising God for eternity? ... When pressed, I think most people might say that heaven sounds pretty boring.  Yeah, you get to avoid the flames of hell.... But then that makes faith mostly an insurance policy against future pain....And the hardest thing in the world to sell is insurance. 

Meanwhile, the prosperity gospel promises the only kind of return on faith that appeals to human nature, really....And in a way it seems to be what a fair and good God might actually do -- reward people who believe and who do the right thing....

Of course, I think it's always been much more appealing to poorer people than richer ones. Which makes perfect sense, too, really. Financially well-off people are already enjoying rewards in this life. Poor people aren't. Prosperity gospel says, in effect -- Hey, God loves you, and is going to reward you in a way that will help you and be fair to you if you help him first. .... That really sounds like a god most people -- especially people who are struggling -- could get on board with ..........Whereas the god who just says -- Do what I say and I won't spend eternity burning you to a cinder ... not so much. 

[mimionthebeach]

On 2018-12-17 at 11:34 AM, Christina87 said:

At least Boob had SOME small degree of charisma, though. It's weird because jereME has such a personality in real life, but he looked like a scared lamb on the way to the slaughter in his sermon. I kind of expected his sermon to be crap, but his delivery to be a selling point. I'm unsure why exactly he looks and acts so hesitant in the pulpit. I'm pretty unsure why anyone goes to that church, lol. 

Maybe I'm jaded, but I've never noticed anything even remotely charismatic about Jim Bob. At best he's awkward; on a regular day, ignorant, egocentric and repellent. 

[Oldernowiser]

So Carrot versus stick, yes? Makes sense.

So Mr. Wiser and I were wondering the other day if after you go to heaven you get to do all the things various religions say you’re not supposed to do because what are they gonna do, send you back?

 I like to picture a bunch of badass angels stomping around heaven smoking Camel nonfilters, shooting heroin, twerking, playing high-stakes poker and yelling FUCK!!! at the top of their lungs all day.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Oldernowiser

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, Oldernowiser said:

So Carrot versus stick, yes? Makes sense.

So Mr. Wiser and I were wondering the other day if after you go to heaven you get to do all the things various religions say you’re not supposed to do because what are they gonna do, send you back?

 I like to picture a bunch of badass angels stomping around heaven smoking Camel nonfilters, shooting heroin, twerking, playing high-stakes poker and yelling FUCK!!! at the top of their lungs all day.

 

Well, you know, Lucifer got chucked from Heaven when he rebelled ... So unfortunately Paradise Lost appears to be a possibility. lol

And I doubt Luc allows room for anybody other than himself to have the pleasure of reigning in hell, either...

Edited December 18, 2018 by Churchhoney

[Sew Sumi]

Interrupting all this dreary religion talk to post a cute baby video to distract you. 😀

[BitterApple]

Felicity is certainly a happy girl. I'm thinking she looks more like her dad these days.

[Christina87]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Felicity is certainly a happy girl. I'm thinking she looks more like her dad these days.

I definitely see chuck in her too. Something about the shape of the head!

[drafan]

11 minutes ago, Christina87 said:

I definitely see chuck in her too. Something about the shape of the head!

I've seen every picture of her that they've posted and I've never seen her head.

[queenanne]

19 hours ago, Christina87 said:

I definitely see chuck in her too. Something about the shape of the head!

Here's a juxtaposition:

[Spencer Hastings]

Jinger is showing off her evolved eating habits.  

Edited December 20, 2018 by Spencer Hastings

[awaken]

What a contrast to jill’s Food posts!

[Albanyguy]

6 hours ago, awaken said:

What a contrast to jill’s Food posts!

I wouldn't be surprised if that was her plan. We all think of Jinger as being one of the "nicer" Duggars., but I think everyone in that family has a mean streak a mile long; they "keep sweet" in public, but behind the scenes there's an enormous amount of jealousy, spitefulness and back-biting, encouraged by their ghastly parents. I also think they avidly follow each other on social media. Jinger is probably very aware of her sister's attempts to become an internet cooking expert and decided to get in on the act. I think she really has learned something about nutrition, food preparation and presentation since she's been married to Jeremy and living away from the family and wouldn't mind showing off her new skills. It'll be interesting to see if she keeps this up and tries to compete with Jill for the Duggar Foodie Queen crown. 

[Madtown]

She sure seems like one happy baby...

[libgirl2]

9 minutes ago, Madtown said:

She sure seems like one happy baby...

We are seeing legs! Without a covering! Seriously though, she is a cutie and looks so happy. 

[BitterApple]

4 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

I wouldn't be surprised if that was her plan. We all think of Jinger as being one of the "nicer" Duggars., but I think everyone in that family has a mean streak a mile long; they "keep sweet" in public, but behind the scenes there's an enormous amount of jealousy, spitefulness and back-biting, encouraged by their ghastly parents. I also think they avidly follow each other on social media.

100%. All these Fundie girls are big into the Instagram Olympics. Their husbands are flawless, their kids are perfect, there's never a bad day, life is an endless bowl of cherries etc. I wonder if Jinger was even given the vegetables or that's the story she created to give her an excuse to post (and outdo Jill, lol). 

[libgirl2]

5 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

100%. All these Fundie girls are big into the Instagram Olympics. Their husbands are flawless, their kids are perfect, there's never a bad day, life is an endless bowl of cherries etc. I wonder if Jinger was even given the vegetables or that's the story she created to give her an excuse to post (and outdo Jill, lol). 

I have a feeling the veggies are real. Jeremy doesn't strike me as someone who would eat the crap Jill makes. I we have seen Jinger eating salad often. 

[Churchhoney]

22 hours ago, BitterApple said:

100%. All these Fundie girls are big into the Instagram Olympics. Their husbands are flawless, their kids are perfect, there's never a bad day, life is an endless bowl of cherries etc. I wonder if Jinger was even given the vegetables or that's the story she created to give her an excuse to post (and outdo Jill, lol). 

And yet the Duggars all like to pretend they're standing strong against the corrupt and corrupting spirit of the modern age! lol

Edited December 21, 2018 by Churchhoney

[Marshmallow Mollie]

2 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

And yet the Duggars all like to pretend that they're standing strong against the corrupt and corrupting spirit of the modern age! lol

I haven’t thought about it from that angle, and, wow, you are so right!

[Ohiopirate02]

2 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

And yet the Duggars all like to pretend that they're standing strong against the corrupt and corrupting spirit of the modern age! lol

They definitely do not live up to the phrase "in the world but not of the world."  They cherry-pick aspects of modern life just like they cherry-pick Bible verses.

[graefin]

8 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

I think she really has learned something about nutrition, food preparation and presentation since she's been married to Jeremy and living away from the family and wouldn't mind showing off her new skills. It'll be interesting to see if she keeps this up and tries to compete with Jill for the Duggar Foodie Queen crown. 

Someone pointed out a while back that one of the key differences between Jill and the other sisters is who she married, and in the context of their culture, I think this is particularly relevant. The husbands are the leaders of the family; Duggar females have been, perhaps more so than even other fundies, trained not to think for themselves or have any independent ambition. Jeremy and Ben seem to be the encouraging type, and also the type to prefer healthy eating (we know the latter holds true for sure about Ben). Naturally, these traits and preferences will also shape Jinger and Jessa's future attitudes and choices.

Derick, on the other hand, is stubborn, defensive, and just nasty (I always flash back to his "You get a job, Betsy" retort on Twitter). It's really no surprise that Jill isn't growing at all in the environment he sets the tone for.

[Christina87]

8 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

I wouldn't be surprised if that was her plan. We all think of Jinger as being one of the "nicer" Duggars., but I think everyone in that family has a mean streak a mile long; they "keep sweet" in public, but behind the scenes there's an enormous amount of jealousy, spitefulness and back-biting, encouraged by their ghastly parents. I also think they avidly follow each other on social media. Jinger is probably very aware of her sister's attempts to become an internet cooking expert and decided to get in on the act. I think she really has learned something about nutrition, food preparation and presentation since she's been married to Jeremy and living away from the family and wouldn't mind showing off her new skills. It'll be interesting to see if she keeps this up and tries to compete with Jill for the Duggar Foodie Queen crown. 

I could definitely see Jeremy and Jinger poking fun at Jill's internet blogs behind her back on a regular basis! I love my sister to death, but I definitely have been known to snark on her with a boyfriend before...not in a mean-spirited way, but just poking fun at immature posts (thankfully she has grown up now!). I doubt Jeremy is a huge Jill fan after how she just showed up at their house that time, and it's possible Jinger can actually be open with Jeremy about her childhood with Jill as the snitch / lecturer. It wouldn't surprise me if they laughed at Jill, whether Jinger personally likes her or not. 

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎12‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 5:00 PM, doodlebug said:

I saw John Gray on TV.  He claimed that he purchased the $200,000 Lamborghini out of his own funds with proceeds from the books he has written as well as his TV show on OWN. None of the money came from the church.  John Gray learned from the master, he was the assistant pastor at Joel Osteen's church before striking out on his own.  He is also an advocate of Osteen's 'prosperity gospel' which claims that Jesus wants them to be wealthy and it is a sign of his approval that they live large.

I despise Joel Osteen and his prosperity gospel.  God wants you to be rich!  Because everyone knows Jesus believed in flash and bling.