S06.E08: Season 6, Episode 8

[Macbeth]

I don't know if McGovern "talks like that" in real life, but it jars me in part because when I was a little girl in the 1950's, I knew several very old ladies who talked like that -- a sort of ultra-soft baby-talk faux-adorably sweet voice,

 

No she really doesn't talk like that.  If you see her in A Hand maid's Tale or She's having a baby - you get a very, very different Elizabeth McGovern.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Macbeth

[bmoore4026]

Macbeth, on 28 Feb 2016 - 6:01 PM, said:Macbeth, on 28 Feb 2016 - 6:01 PM, said:

No she really doesn't talk like that.  If you see her in A Hand maid's Tale or She's having a baby - you get a very, very different Elizabeth McGovern.

 

She was pretty good as Snow White in that one freaky episode of Faerie Tale Theater.  Then again "freaky episode of Faerie Tale Theater" is redundant.  Lynn Redgrave scared the shit out of me in the Snow White episode, especially at the end!

 

I finally got around to watching part of the this episode before The Oscars.  Specifically the part where Mary blabbed about Marigold and ruined Edith's engagement.

 

To be fair, Edith was being a bit bitchy toward Mary, so Mary retaliated.  Was kind of hoping we'd get the WWEdwardian Slamdown I've been hoping for, but no.

Edited February 29, 2016 by bmoore4026

[Constantinople]

The JF timeline does not always follow reality as long as it suits the story.  Best not to think too hard about continuity.

Continuity not being of the series strong suits.

 

In this very episode, Bertie referred to Edith as the daughter of the 5th Earl of Grantham even though a few episodes ago Violet referred to Robert's father as the 6th Earl of Grantham.

[ShadowFacts]

I don't think it's been mentioned that, even though it was a cover story, Anna should probably not have been taking care of Thomas when he had influenza.  I thought that was what they said he had, but wasn't sure until I rewatched the episode before the Manners filler, which actually wasn't too bad.

[JudyObscure]

I don't mind that the kids in DA can't act because I'm a little uncomfortable with the whole business of children acting. My favorite kids are those from the "Our Gang," comedies who were in all the thirties films, but I sometimes worry what those children went through to get those performances out of them.

In this clip from "Peter Ibbetson" you can't hear their lines but just their little faces are awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkut-j3o4ic

[Ina123]

For the real Elizabeth McGovern, I suggest her debut movie, Ordinary People. Best picture, 1980.

 

Or, Racing with the moon, 1984.

 

Also, did anyone watch the special DA Manners last night? Lots of interviews with most of the cast.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Ina123

[PRgal]

 

 

Also, did anyone watch the special DA Manners last night? Lots of interviews with most of the cast.

 

 

I saw it.  Didn't they show that in parts throughout the season (after (or before) each show)?  Some of it looked very familiar.

[Kohola3]

I watched it as well and I think there may have been a spoiler or two for the finale.

[RedHawk]

I watched it as well and I think there may have been a spoiler or two for the finale.

Yes, I realized that and stopped paying close attention. No spoilers, Filler Show!

[elle]

If I'm doing my math right, Sybbie is about 5 or nearly 5 (Sybil died in 1920), George is several months younger, since Matthew died in 1921, and Marigold is around 3, going by Gregson's murder in late 1923. 

 

It is indeed one of Downton's black comic jokes that we calculate the children's ages by the deaths of their respective parent. 

If I can add/subtract correctly, these children will come of age right as WWII is starting.   Could Fellowes pass up an opportunity to tell their stories?

 

A question about titles, since Mary is now re-married, what would her titles be?  As the daughter of an Earl, she would still have the right to be called "Lady Mary", but she would no longer take her mother's place since she, Mary, is no longer the widow of the heir.

[SusanSunflower]

What's disappointing is the children's performance in such extremely limited roles, amounting to under 5 minutes per episode (if that).  The Our Gang kids carried the movies. The scene with Robert and Cora and the kids suggested that the kids are -- under normal circumstances -- cowed (since they were ALL so natural and relaxed and attractive in that tiny segment). If you're stuck with kids who can't act then you WRITE AROUND THEM and stop playing dog-and-pony show with them appearing cringing and hesitant.. Having seen Marigold acting "normal" ... I'm inclined to think that "allergy relief" has been employed, iykwim. 

Edited February 29, 2016 by SusanSunflower

[AndySmith]

A question about titles, since Mary is now re-married, what would her titles be?  As the daughter of an Earl, she would still have the right to be called "Lady Mary", but she would no longer take her mother's place since she, Mary, is no longer the widow of the heir.

 

She would still be addressed as Lady, as she is the daughter of an Earl. But I do think her official title would be Mrs. Talbot? But no, she can't be Countess since Matthew died before Robert did, and Matthew was never the Earl of Grantham. Even if he was the heir, he wasn't Robert's son. It also means George doesn't have a courtesy title, and will only be titled once Robert dies and George inherits the title.

Edited February 29, 2016 by AndySmith

[MakeMeLaugh]

I don't mind that the kids in DA can't act because I'm a little uncomfortable with the whole business of children acting....

I love that they are mostly props or just part of the scenery when they are in front of the cameras. I think that keeps to the accuracy of the period, when children were to be seen (rarely) but not heard (even more rarely!).

And Elizabeth McGovern was also nominated for an Oscar for Ragtime where she was even gasp! nekkid. I think she, like the rest of the cast, is very good.

[caligirl50]

 

I don't think it's been mentioned that, even though it was a cover story, Anna should probably not have been taking care of Thomas when he had influenza.  I thought that was what they said he had, but wasn't sure until I rewatched the episode before the Manners filler, which actually wasn't too bad.

 

Thomas didn’t have the flu.  He was recovering from slashing his wrists.  

[sandyskyblue]

Well I do hope Bertie comes back for Edith. After all she had never accepted his proposal - she said she was still thinking about it as her life was complicated. He took it as a yes since she didn't say no and then without telling her decided to make the announcement the next morning at breakfast. So as far as I can see he is the one that screwed up. I like that Edith has a life in London with the magazine and maybe she will decide that is what she wants. But for once I would like her to decide the direction of her life, not a man.

 

I am glad that Thomas did not die as I feared he might. After all if Mary can continually be a bitch and try to screw up other's lives, and still get a happy ending, so can Thomas.

This. A million times...Edith did not accept Bertie's proposal, and she gave him a clear warning that her life was not simple, etc...and still, he took all that as a 'yes' from her?  I want to think she was going over in her mind how she was going to tell him the truth about Marigold...and before she figured it out, he has a title...and why, oh why, did Bertie practically blurt out their 'good news' without Robert and Cora in the room??  Would Mary still have said what she did about Bertie accepting Edith's past if her parents were present?  I hate how JF f'ed Edith again...and Mary gets her happy ending once again....

[UsernameFatigue]

Good point sandyskybue regarding Bertie announcing their engagement at breakfast without Cora and Robert there. And maybe this is a more recent custom (or at least more recent than the mid 1920s) but would Bertie not have discussed this with Robert beforehand? And especially since at the time he made the announcement the family did not know that he was in line for a title - he was simply an agent. The whole scene does not ring true but you are right, Mary would not have said what she did in front of her parents so JF had to write an unrealistic scene to ruin Edith's happiness.

 

I am starting to think though that Edith might be better off if Bertie doesn't return. She will have her magazine and a wonderful, progressive life in London. If she marries Bertie she will be stuck carrying on the traditions of a life that for many is going by the wayside. Albeit on a grander scale than her sister. On the other hand Mary will be stuck at Downton trying to keep it afloat and married to someone that despite taking him as her hubby she will never consider her equal. Either way I think Edith will come out ahead of Mary in the end, but I won't mind if she stays foot loose and fancy free in London.

[stopeslite]

About Anna - I think her pregnancy is still a secret from most of the servants. The only ones who know are the same ones who know what really happened to Thomas, so nobody would think it odd that she's bringing him his food etc. 

[Artymouse]

Actually, everyone knew Bertie was to inherit the title before he arrived at Downton. I don't know what protocol would have been, as far as asking for Edith's hand or whatever, but since she's a 30-something woman, it might not have been necessary.

But at breakfast when Bertie made the announcement, everyone knew he wasn't merely going to be the agent. Which is why Mary, who had the devil in her eyes from the moment she walked into the dining room, chose to use the nuclear option. If Edith didn't stand to become a marchioness, Mary would have cared little to nothing about whether Bertie proposed to Edith or not. I still think it would've been more realistic to announce to Robert and Cora rather than Mary and Tom, but I can hand-wave that as Bertie wanting to go ahead and tell some configuration of the family before he had to catch the train.

[Popples]

About Anna - I think her pregnancy is still a secret from most of the servants. The only ones who know are the same ones who know what really happened to Thomas, so nobody would think it odd that she's bringing him his food etc. 

 

Mary, Bates, and Baxter know; does Mrs. Hughes know? I know the servants' uniforms weren't form fitting, but why isn't Anna showing yet?

[jschoolgirl]

Yes, I realized that and stopped paying close attention. No spoilers, Filler Show!

I went looking for video of Edith's fight (in its entirety) and her reconciliation speech, and I got a big ol' spoiler. Not happy to find it nor about what it revealed. Really silly of me to do that.

Be careful out there!

Does anybody who has seen the final show or who doesn't care about spoilers know about any links to those two scenes -- video or transcript?

[AndySmith]

I think Mary would have revealed the truth about Marigold to Bertie regardless of whether Edith was going to become a marchioness, given that Edith was needling her at the breakfast table.

 

In any case, that was just a horribly constructed scene by JF. If Bertie really wanted to tell someone - anyone - from the family, he could have just asked Robert to stay for a few minutes longer to hear the news. What was the plan, announce things to Tom and Mary, leave, then come back and tell Robert and Cora? That whole scene was just written in the most clumsy way possible.

[millennium]

Hmm, the final episode didn't air this week for some reason.  Instead I find "More Manners of Downton Abbey."

[SusanSunflower]

I didn't understand why Mary was expected downstairs for breakfast, nor Cora for that matter, which made the whole "reveal" feel even more contrived than necessary ... at what point in the day would Mary and/or Cora indicate to whomever that rather than breakfast in bed, or in bed chambers, they would be dining downstairs off the buffet. Again, perhaps I missed it... see also delivering life-altering news at breakfast or before noon, particularly in "announcing an engagement to marry" when your would-be fiancé keeps saying wait, and otherwise demuring ...  oh well, it's done, but yes, I caught the scene again this weekend and wondered why anyone would expect Cora at the communal breakfast table ... has she ever done so before? 

[nara]

Yes, but it seems only during the war, in season 2?

 

That's because she was unmarried in seasons 1 and 2. My understanding is that the norm was for married women to take breakfast in bed (or have the option to do so)and everyone else came down. I guess widows continued the practice. That's why Edith has always come to the table and so has Robert. Mary came down because she expected Henry to be there.

[Roseanna]

That's because she was unmarried in seasons 1 and 2. My understanding is that the norm was for married women to take breakfast in bed (or have the option to do so)and everyone else came down. I guess widows continued the practice. That's why Edith has always come to the table and so has Robert. Mary came down because she expected Henry to be there.

 

We have also seen Mary to eat the breakfast downtairs since she became an agent (f.ex. S6 ep1). That is, she rose from the bed earlier and got dressed because she had work to do.

[Roseanna]

Edith did not accept Bertie's proposal, and she gave him a clear warning that her life was not simple, etc...and still, he took all that as a 'yes' from her? 

 

Also in irl people sometimes misunderstand others and don’t often notice “the warning signs”. When this can happen to couples after years of marriage, it’s even more common between lovers who had only learned to know the sunny side of each other.

 

In addition, Bertie was hardly in a normal mental condition. First, he was in love, so he saw Edith as an ideal woman. That picture had no room to doubts that she had a “dark secret”.  Second, he mourned his cousin and was afraid of his new duties, that is, he was doubly stressed.

 

Thirdly, although visibly mourning, he behaved in a much more confident way than before. In the luncheon table he was the center of attention and was not the least embarrassed by it. Already when he had come, he had given quite damning information about his mother and now he didn’t do anything to make mitigate his description but if anything make it sound harsher – it was evident that he didn’t notice how it frightened Edith who was silent and withdrawn (although she also was afraid that he would dump her as Mary had predicted).

 

Then in the park he pleaded that he needed her but in the corridor he in practice demanded Edith to say yes. Could there be any reason that he assumed that her hesitation was only due to his lack of prospect and now he could offer her a title and fortune, it was self-evident that she would accept him (after all, he was not of middle class as Matthew)?

 

As for Edith, she never showed even with a hint that she was glad over Bertie’s title and fortune, unlike Robert, Cora and Rosamund. All in all, she looked the very opposite in his company than before. She was even less beautiful than in London, except in the corridor scene.

 

 

I am starting to think though that Edith might be better off if Bertie doesn't return. She will have her magazine and a wonderful, progressive life in London. If she marries Bertie she will be stuck carrying on the traditions of a life that for many is going by the wayside.

 

I agree. I would have liked Bertie to stay as an agent. Marigold would still be a possible obstacle, and in addition there would have been a real question how their different life styles and professions could be fit together.

[Artymouse]

As much as I hate the whole thing about Mary telling Bertie, one thing I did think was nice was how Edith took responsibility in her conversation with Bertie before he left. If she had blamed Mary or behaved angrily toward Bertie, it wouldn't have been terribly surprising. But I thought she showed growth and maturity in that scene. She's come a long way since Season 1.

[terrymct]

He was only gone for a little over 3 months (he left in January 1925 and came back in March or April). The crossing alone took about 3 weeks each way. So all he did in Boston was having a longer vacation. Sybbie wouldn't have the time to make "friends".

 

The whole storyline to send him to Boston doesn't make any sense in retrospect. They should have left him in England, then give him a new love plus some interest and job (preferably in politics as he always wanted) and THEN at the end of  S6 he should have left. That would have been a good and satisfying storyline for him. As it is, he got nothing. 

 

 

I think it was a case of wanting to toss in a little bit of child related drama at the end of last season.   What could be the source of that drama?  Well, he's Irish and ALL the Irish want to go to Boston, don't they?   ;)

[Andorra]

I think it was just put in to upset the fans. 

[Kohola3]

Hmm, the final episode didn't air this week for some reason.  Instead I find "More Manners of Downton Abbey."

 

The final episode, AKA the two hour Christmas Spacial, is scheduled for Sunday, March 6.

[SusanSunflower]

Branson went to America for the same reason that Violet went to France ... so they could return to "rescue" Mary ... or rather, to find Mary a husband (Branson) and keep Mary from making the terrible mistake of refusing Henry (Violet) 

[AndySmith]

That's because she was unmarried in seasons 1 and 2. My understanding is that the norm was for married women to take breakfast in bed

 

The original poster was asking about Cora attending breakfast, not Mary. We rarely saw Cora at the breakfast table. I think that was one of the few times she had breakfast there (that's Cora in the white top).

Edited March 1, 2016 by AndySmith

[lucindabelle]

What's disappointing is the children's performance in such extremely limited roles, amounting to under 5 minutes per episode (if that).  The Our Gang kids carried the movies. The scene with Robert and Cora and the kids suggested that the kids are -- under normal circumstances -- cowed (since they were ALL so natural and relaxed and attractive in that tiny segment). If you're stuck with kids who can't act then you WRITE AROUND THEM and stop playing dog-and-pony show with them appearing cringing and hesitant.. Having seen Marigold acting "normal" ... I'm inclined to think that "allergy relief" has been employed, iykwim.

Agreed. I kind of think the issue of child actors is just another issues. If you are going to have em then HAVE them. I've seen small children actors in loads of British police dramas so it's not as if there are no decent actors under the age of 10 in the UK. George is 5, so he could easily be played by a short 7 year old. The little girl in the tiger suit in the Expedia commercial is cuter and more dear than the awkward I don't want to be here of the kids on DA. It's also an issue of the director... Directors can do a lot to pull a natural performance out of kids, george was so clearly just hitting his marks that it wasn't touching to me at all.

Now when he was playing with barrow he was actually cute, because he probably forgot he was acting,

[meep.meep]

So enquiring minds want to know what Lady Mary had at her wedding breakfast, after she sneered at Mrs. Hughes wanting one.

 

And my favorite line of the entire series was Lady Edith the morning after Stralan dumped her at the altar:  Spinsters come down to breakfast.

[lucindabelle]

I believe mary sneered at the idea of a sit down breakfast not at the idea of having one at all.

[skyways]

I don't remember which episode this season but Cora came down to breakfast and Robert was visibly surprised to see her (and said so). It was not omly Season 2. It happened some episodes ago.

[SusanSunflower]

Well, silly me, I was forgetting that none of the women can dress themselves so their plans -- for example, for Cora to start her day early, eat downstairs on her way out the door to "do things" -- would be communicated to their maids sufficiently in advance so the dining room and buffet would be "readied" for her and Mary and whomever else might show up ... on second thought, I'm surprised Anna hadn't informed Mary of Henry's departure in the wee hours of the night or morning (since I think that was actually supposed to come as an "important' shock to her) and god knows he couldn't have left without half a dozen people being aware of his "unscheduled" departure ... (that sort of lack of privacy would drive me crazy) 

[helenamonster]

A question about titles, since Mary is now re-married, what would her titles be?  As the daughter of an Earl, she would still have the right to be called "Lady Mary", but she would no longer take her mother's place since she, Mary, is no longer the widow of the heir.

 

The only example I have to go by is Rosamund, whose husband I believe was untitled. Her official moniker is Lady Rosamund Painswicke. She took her husband's last name but held onto her courtesy title as the daughter of an earl. So I guess Mary will now be Lady Mary Talbot.

 

I think if Sybil was still alive and she and Tom had stayed in Yorkshire she would have been referred to as Lady Sybil Branson, but in Ireland she was able to get away with being Mrs. Branson (which she preferred).

 

What's disappointing is the children's performance in such extremely limited roles, amounting to under 5 minutes per episode (if that).  The Our Gang kids carried the movies. The scene with Robert and Cora and the kids suggested that the kids are -- under normal circumstances -- cowed (since they were ALL so natural and relaxed and attractive in that tiny segment). If you're stuck with kids who can't act then you WRITE AROUND THEM and stop playing dog-and-pony show with them appearing cringing and hesitant.. Having seen Marigold acting "normal" ... I'm inclined to think that "allergy relief" has been employed, iykwim. 

 

I really don't mind the kids not being spectacular little thespians. Assuming the actress who plays Sybbie is the same age as her character, they're all five and under. Once kids get to maybe about 8 or 9 it's nicer to have ones that can actually act, but kids this young, for me anyway, just need to be able to look like their parents and sit still. And if they're only trotted out as a reminder of the passage of time, fine. It's better than watching them Abel Teller their way through scenes.

 

Good point sandyskybue regarding Bertie announcing their engagement at breakfast without Cora and Robert there. And maybe this is a more recent custom (or at least more recent than the mid 1920s) but would Bertie not have discussed this with Robert beforehand? And especially since at the time he made the announcement the family did not know that he was in line for a title - he was simply an agent. The whole scene does not ring true but you are right, Mary would not have said what she did in front of her parents so JF had to write an unrealistic scene to ruin Edith's happiness.

 

The family did know that he was the new Lord Hexham when he announced the engagement.

Edited March 1, 2016 by helenamonster

[AndySmith]

As per debretts.com:

 

"A daughter of an earl has the style of 'Lady' before her forename and surname, eg the daughter of the Earl of Aldford could be Lady Daisy Browne. 

 

On marriage she continues to use the same style, with her husband's surname."

 

So Mary would be Lady Mary Talbot.

Edited March 1, 2016 by AndySmith

[jrlr]

Agreed. I kind of think the issue of child actors is just another issues. If you are going to have em then HAVE them. I've seen small children actors in loads of British police dramas so it's not as if there are no decent actors under the age of 10 in the UK. George is 5, so he could easily be played by a short 7 year old. The little girl in the tiger suit in the Expedia commercial is cuter and more dear than the awkward I don't want to be here of the kids on DA. It's also an issue of the director... Directors can do a lot to pull a natural performance out of kids, george was so clearly just hitting his marks that it wasn't touching to me at all.

Now when he was playing with barrow he was actually cute, because he probably forgot he was acting,

I agree completely.  That little girl in the Expedia commercial is unbelievably adorable, she really seems like she has no idea the camera is there, and that is a mark of really good acting.  But it's a gift - even at that age - and most people just don't have it at any age.  I remember seeing Jodi Foster before Taxi Driver in a Rockford or Harry O episode (dating myself just a little here :)) and knew right from the first scene that there was real talent there.  When shows use kids who don't have any talent, it always shows.  I've been watching Dynasty (don't ask, it has to do with avoiding politics) and the kids on it were simply AWFUL.  Of course, so were most of the adults.  OT, sorry.

[UsernameFatigue]

The family did know that he was the new Lord Hexham when he announced the engagement

 

Yes, I realized that after I posted and as another poster pointed out that was the whole reason for Mary to tell Bertie. If he was just a lowly agent she would not care. But I still do believe that the scene was not believable that Bertie would telll Mary and Tom before Edith's parents. And that he would announce it without OK'ing it with Edith first. He has been portrayed up until that point as a much more thoughtful person.

[Athena]

As per debretts.com:

 

"A daughter of an earl has the style of 'Lady' before her forename and surname, eg the daughter of the Earl of Aldford could be Lady Daisy Browne. 

 

On marriage she continues to use the same style, with her husband's surname."

 

So Mary would be Lady Mary Talbot.

 

 

The only example I have to go by is Rosamund, whose husband I believe was untitled. Her official moniker is Lady Rosamund Painswicke. She took her husband's last name but held onto her courtesy title as the daughter of an earl. So I guess Mary will now be Lady Mary Talbot.

 

This is correct. A literary and more historical example is from Pride and Prejudice. Mr Darcy's mother is referred to as Lady Anne Darcy. She and Lady Catherine were both daughters of an Earl and styled it with their married names. Mr Darcy's father was not titled, but his mother - like Mary - would retain her "Lady" title into marriage.

[Sulador]

The title "Queen Mother" was invented because of the duplication of names.  Had the current Queen's sister been older, we would have had a Queen Margaret, a Queen Elizabeth, and a Queen Mary at the same time.  

 

 

[KLovestoShop]

If you look back at all the travails in Robert's life, and even things of not much importance, whenever Cora asked Robert about them, his only retort to her was along the lines of "nothing for you to worry about".  Perhaps the women in those times were not allowed to know the goings on of the men because they were considered the weaker sex?   

[blackwing]

I was fascinated by the "More Manners of Downton Abbey" special.  It makes me want to go and read more about this time period, and maybe check out that Jessica Fellowes book.

 

Because it was called "More" Manners, does that imply that there was an earlier "Manners of Downton Abbey" special in one of the earlier seasons?  I'm sure it's gone from the PBS site, but did it show up on any of the DVDs for the prior seasons?  Was the content similar?

[chessiegal]

I was fascinated by the "More Manners of Downton Abbey" special.  It makes me want to go and read more about this time period, and maybe check out that Jessica Fellowes book.

 

Because it was called "More" Manners, does that imply that there was an earlier "Manners of Downton Abbey" special in one of the earlier seasons?  I'm sure it's gone from the PBS site, but did it show up on any of the DVDs for the prior seasons?  Was the content similar?

Yes, there was an earlier "Manners" episode, last year maybe?

[Clanstarling]

I agree completely.  That little girl in the Expedia commercial is unbelievably adorable, she really seems like she has no idea the camera is there, and that is a mark of really good acting.  But it's a gift - even at that age - and most people just don't have it at any age.  I remember seeing Jodi Foster before Taxi Driver in a Rockford or Harry O episode (dating myself just a little here :)) and knew right from the first scene that there was real talent there.  When shows use kids who don't have any talent, it always shows.  I've been watching Dynasty (don't ask, it has to do with avoiding politics) and the kids on it were simply AWFUL.  Of course, so were most of the adults.  OT, sorry.

My youngest was knocking them dead at 3 years old, and kept on doing so. She's considering auditioning, but currently doesn't live anywhere near professional opportunities. For child actors I think it's probably difficult to find the combination of a natural actor whose parent is actively seeking roles for them, and lives close enough to get them to the jobs. But the additional element, I think, is to have someone who knows how to direct children. It, too, is a unique skill.

[Kohola3]

Perhaps the women in those times were not allowed to know the goings on of the men because they were considered the weaker sex?

 

Heavens, the fairer sex was supposed to be shielded from anything unpleasant lest they have the vapors.  Didn't  Robert express distaste when some word (was it "urine"?) was verbalized in front of the ladies?

Edited March 2, 2016 by Kohola3

[jschoolgirl]

I think it was "bastard," during tha annoying Ethel's-baby storyline.

Heavens, the fairer sex was supposed to be shielded from anything unpleasant lest they have the vapors. Didn't Robert express distaste when some word (was it "urine"?) was verbalized in front of the ladies?

I think it was "bastard," during the annoying Ethel's-baby storyline. Edited March 2, 2016 by jschoolgirl

[Dejana]

The image of Robert being uncomfortable at the mention of "urine" seems familiar...I want to say it was when Sybil was in labor, and the doctors were debating whether or not she had eclampsia?

I never like the TV/movie development where a man somehow gets a special wedding license behind the woman's back, without both parties appearing before the court/registrar/etc., and the marriage is still valid. Is/was this really a thing?

Edited March 3, 2016 by Dejana