S01.E01: Pilot Part 1

[BkWurm1]

I enjoyed it but it didn't WOW me. It is suppose to be a 2 part pilot so that may be it. The fact that they weren't really legends of any kind and were somewhat expendable was a nice "twist" but I like that they will take matters into their own hands and change that.

 

It's kind of funny how writers treat Laurel outside of her home show, her sparring scene with Sara was so enjoyable.

 

But they did a good job of giving just about everyone scenes that helped build their character.

 

I didn’t hate Laurel!  There were still a couple awkward moments like when she tried cupping Sara’s face that felt out of character, but otherwise I thought their conversation and interaction was one of their best.  And I see Cisco isn't a fan of buckle either.  It almost makes up for the crappy cap sleeves he stuck on the most recent Arrow suit.

 

 

I can not help worrying about Prof. Stein's nice BMW convertible. He just left it there out in the field? And how about his wife? He left her again after she thought he was dead for a while?

Ray made a comment about stopping by to chit chat with Oliver because while he assumed Rip would return him from where/when he grabbed him, if he died, someone should know.  I think that Stein is just assuming Clarissa won't notice he's gone.  I don't think any of them really expect to be gone that long. 

 

Or maybe it was a rental and the Enterprise guy will come along soon and pick it up. 

 

Going back to Ray.

 

.  Poor Ray, he so wants to matter.  I see now that his ego got knocked down quite a bit.  He's not that cocky, the world revolves around me cause I'm so awesome guy anymore.  First Felicity throws him over for the broke guy with no future that had been holding her at arms length and trying to get himself killed  (and she still prefers him to Ray, ha, ha.  JELLO!!) and then he dies and there’s no  one but the ex girlfriend to carry on any of his legacy and more embarrassing, he only has the ex girlfriend’s fiancée to talk to about him leaving!  Then zoom!  Oop, no you really don't matter in the long run.

 

Loved that Sara was the one to figure out that none of their destinies were set in stone.  Funny that she was the one encouraging a depressed Ray.  I like that he's going to have to work for it and I like that Sara has the strength to still hope they can change their destinies.  And why not, she's defied all logic so far in just being alive.  

 

Was it just me, or did Sara seem a bit drunk already when she decided to start dancing?  I’m guessing that wasn’t their first round of beer, either that or Mick had some stuff he brought along to share after all.  I can't decide if it would be horrible or weirdly comedic if it turns out that Sara has a weakness to abuse substances like her dad and sister.  Though it seems out of character since if ever there was a time to be a drunk is when you are miserable and forced to kill people for a living. 

 

I'm going to guess that she's been hitting booze a bit harder to try and self medicate. 

 

The fights she did really looked great.  What a difference.  That said, I actually thought Oliver's looked off.  Like too slow?  Nit pick, I'll get past it.  Just realized that we didn't see Barry at all.  As an Arrow fan first, I'm going to sit and bask for a second that Arrow IMO is still the only show to really launch another spin off.  Sure the characters came from both but only Oliver gets to have been there in both pilots.    Yes I'm petty like that. 

 

Over all I was pleasantly surprised and pleased by how well the pilot did go.  Sure, I noticed some choppy editing as everything was being crammed into the episode, they could have used some smother transitions (like when Sara just randomly said, lets go get a drink, what?  Not even an attempt to show why she decided in that moment she wanted a drink?)  but otherwise I was happy with it.  And it certainly made me want to come back next week. 

 

Very curious about the ratings tomorrow. 

Edited January 22, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Aliasscape]

I watch Arrow and Flash but found this really boring. I hate Hawkman, he can't act at all. The Star Wars and Star Trek references were fun but that was about it. Rip did a good job and I liked him but didn't really like anyone else.

 

But when Rip said they can't just go kill Savage because he's hidden himself through time uh what about during the Arrow/Flash crossover fight? They can't go kill him then?

[InsertWordHere]

I loved it. It's Doctor Who with superheroes, complete with our very own RipRory in a stolen time machine.

 

What I like about Ray in this series is that instead of being this super popular, adored by the city, helping the mayor, better than Oliver at superheroing guy, he's some student that Stein doesn't even remember. I didn't hate the character on Arrow, but the shiny new toy syndrome the writers had for him got really annoying really quickly. Cold and Heatwave seemed to be better known than him, judging by the reactions of the others, even if the reactions were mostly negative. 

 

Shouldn't Hawkman, who remembers his past lives, have recognized the name of his son from just two or three incarnations ago? And why was Kendra shown to be so much more emotional about the son than Hawkman was? I'd attribute it to standard "women are more attached to children than men are" writing, but we also got Rip doing everything to avenge his murdered wife and child in this episode. 

 

I love that Malcolm, by resurrecting Savage, is directly responsible for this shitty future. I always knew he sucked. They should just go back in time and kill Malcolm. 

[pivot]

I liked this. It seems like it will strike a better balance between light and dark than Arrow and Flash.

But, seriously, they need to kill off the Hawks. Their powers are stupid and neither of the actors can act. Though they are light years better than Katie Cassidy. She needs to go back to stinking up Arrow and leave this show alone.

[Minneapple]

Some good things, some bad as pilots usually go. I loved Sara on Arrow so it's good to see her here. I liked her scene with Laurel. I was never a fan of Ray and I think Brandon Routh is wooden, but whatever. Maybe he can change my mind on this show.

My main concern is how the show is going to support this many characters. It's a big cast. They did a decent job in the pilot, but I can see it going off the rails quickly. Still, I'll stick around for a bit and see how it goes.

[BkWurm1]

Shouldn't Hawkman, who remembers his past lives, have recognized the name of his son from just two or three incarnations ago? And why was Kendra shown to be so much more emotional about the son than Hawkman was? I'd attribute it to standard "women are more attached to children than men are" writing, but we also got Rip doing everything to avenge his murdered wife and child in this episode.

 

He remembers a lot, but not everything.  in the crossover there was stuff she remembered that he'd never known.  Or basically he only gets to know what is right for the current plot. 

[Starfish35]

Also who is Amy Pemberton? She was listed in the credits.

I think she's the voice of Gideon. Which is a bit strange to me because Morena Baccarin is doing the voice of Gideon on The Flash. I know it's probably explained by something like different voices from different places in the time stream, but every time Rory Rip says "Gideon" I expect to hear Morena's voice, and it's not. I'm sure I'll get used to it though.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Starfish35

[VCRTracking]

I thought it was okay and then the reveal that Rip was lying and they weren't really legends but "nobodies" whose lives don't effect the timeline one way or another made me really like it! Honestly when I heard the premise and saw the trailer a year ago I kind of balked at Firestorm, Atom, Captain Cold, and even Sara being legends in the future, so now seeing it was all a ruse was kind of cool.

 

Poor Ray though, that really must have been a kick in the teeth.

 

Looking forward to more Sara hanging with Cold and Heatwave and causing havoc!

Edited January 22, 2016 by VCRTracking

[thuganomics85]

Thought it was fun and solid enough for a pilot.  A few clunky lines and stiff acting, but hopefully everyone will grow into their roles.  Of course, some of them are already there, which isn't surprising considering they had been playing these characters for episodes on other shows already.

 

With respect to the rest of the cast, I would totally watch just a show of Sara, Snart, and Mick beating people up in bars.  Those three together were the highlight and I want more of it!  I actually didn't have a problem buying Sara hanging with those two.  After everything she's been through and did (both willingly and unwillingly), I can totally see Sara just wanting to let loose alongside two guys who clearly don't judge and don't give a fuck about anything.  And, of course, Snart and Mick would totally love Sara beating the shit out of fools.  Hope we get more of it.  Although, Snart is going to realize soon his blue steel won't work on her.  He'd have better luck with Barry.

 

I like that they actually gave Martin Stein an edge to him, by having him drug Jefferson.  He clearly can be a selfish person and take it upon himself to force decisions on people, to get what he wants.  He can be as big of a dick as the rest of them.  But it's still Victor Garber, so I'll never not root for him.

 

I.... kind of like Ray, now?  What happened?  Actually, I know what happened.  Instead of being Captain Stalker and having everyone gush over him (even Diggle just let him hijack his own wedding on Arrow), he's now geeking out over everything, and no one is really all "Ray is the greatest!" about him (hell, Stein doesn't even remember him!)  And all of this plays to Brandon Roth's strengths.

 

Arthur Darvill was a blast as Rip, even though I felt like a lot of his prep was just watching episodes of his former show.  Although, I saw a bit more of David Tennant's Doctor in his performance, then Matt Smith's.  Also, I noticed he has a different Gideon then the one in The Flash, and I was bummed it wasn't Karen Gillan.

 

As for the negatives, I'm still underwhelmed by Vandal Savage as a big baddie, Jefferson is annoying still, and I still find the Hawks to be dull as dishwater.  Hawk Bro in particular, is just not a good actor.  Kendra isn't much better, but that guy might be the stiffest board yet.

 

Hi, Oliver!  Bye, Oliver!  Hi, Laurel!  Bye, Laurel!

 

Cisco is apparently just the Q of this universe.  He has created everything!

[Kelda Feegle]

I feel at a serious disadvantage here as I do not watch The Flash or Arrow so I had to have the OH explain stuff to me.

I don't find Arthur Darvill convincing as a lead (much as I loved him in Who).

Will stick it out for another ep. then see.

[Sakura12]

This could've benefited from a 2 hour premiere but then I would've missed The 100. (first world tv problems). 

 

I don't think you really need to see the Flash and Arrow to watch this show after the pilot. It's a bunch of misfits thrown together to fight a bad guy throughout time. 

[ybrik]

The show has potential. It will take a bit to get all the cast to gel together. Still not warming to the Hawks yet. Need to see 2nd part to get a better idea on what type of show this will be.

 

Definitely showing my age and my nerd here but every time I heard Captain Hunter I kept thinking of Robotech and Captain Rick Hunter.

[goodbyeglittergirl]

I have comic book entertainment fatigue, so I do not watch Supergirl, The Flash, Arrow, etc - but I caught this last night b/c Rory was in it...er, I mean Arthur Darvill. I might DVR this and watch for a while. There was a lot of scenery chewing and WAY too many characters but hopefully as it progresses those will work out. I did think Rory did a nice job, and as you can imagine, I do love a good time travel story.

[benteen]

What's great about this show is that even though it clearly has some weaker characters (Jax and the Hawks) there's more than enough stronger characters to cancel that out.

 

Like I said, I really like all the different interactions we see here, like Sara and the Rogues (particularly with Snart).  It's a real strength of the show and something I already really enjoy.

 

The IGN review or the AV Club one (I can't remember which) brought up the good point that Ray's storyline seemed to parallel Brandon Routh's experience as Superman more than a decade ago.

Edited January 22, 2016 by benteen

[jmonique]

Ciara Renee feels like she was the best actress in a community theater production that the casting agents' cousin runs. She's passable, but she has a lot to learn.

 

I don't even know what the guy who plays Hawkman is trying to accomplish with his line readings.

 

Loved, loved, loved "We go out for one lousy drink, and you guys managed to pick a fight with Boba Fett."

 

You can tell I'm used to all the superhero shows when it isn't the time travel aspect that I have questions about: It's the idea of Cisco, sewing costumes for teams across three shows. 

[CraftySabine]

I mostly like it. I'm willing to give it a chance.

 

Though I have one point that keeps gnawing at me.  If the Rogues and Sara were to stay on the ship, where did they get money to go to the bar? Most likely their money is current, especially the paper money. And I haven't seen a pre-1990's coin in a while. What are the chances their money all had 1975 and earlier years on them?  Since Heat grabbed them, I'm thinking some guy didn't just get them cuz Sara's hot.  I know, I'm overthinking.

[shrewd.buddha]

After what felt like a year or so of hype I was surprised at how clunky and silly the premiere was. 

 

It appears the time ship is going to be featured a lot considering how many sections of it were shown. But why would it need a Star Trek bridge area with one center chair and exactly eight other chairs arranged in a semi-circle? 

 

It looks like the Legends team will be playing cat-and-mouse with Vandal Savage for all of eternity since he is basically the reason for the show's existence (and showed up in the premiere before anyone else). 

 

I doubt I'll stick around for this one - - everything just felt like cliches and tropes with no spark of freshness.  Maybe it was deja vu...

Edited January 22, 2016 by shrewd.buddha

[sjohnson]

Maybe part of the problem with Hawkman is how Californian this Khufu seems to be, while Hawkgirl isn't?

 

As for the show, busy, busy, busy. There are so many characters it's hard to get a handle on any of them. Heatwave had some of the best lines, I thought, especially "I'm not judging." 

 

Captain Cold and Heatwave not being remembered historically strongly suggests they were successful at getting away with their thieving, which should be very flattering to them. It's getting caught that makes thieves well-known! And White Canary should be pleased that her career as an assassin stayed out of historical records too. Is the show really trying to tell us the whole team is motivated by a lust for fame? Seriously?

 

But I'll try a few more episodes. 

[Trisan]

Dont watch Arrrow nor Flash and probably missed some stuff, but overall it was fun.

I, although, hated the acting of one of the two criminals (dont remember the names), not the bald one, the almost bad one. Oh, and Hawkman or whataver is bland as hell.

And there is not enough women on the team.

Apart from that it was fun.

[darkestboy]

I really liked the first episode. The fact that we knew most of the cast from both Arrow and Flash probably meant that it didn't feel too exposition like, except for filling in the blanks with Rip's backstory.

 

The Doctor Who comparisons are not subtle but they were highly amusing to watch as the episode went on though.

 

I do find it interesting that Rip also has a personal reason to stop Vandal Savage along with Kendra and Carter.

 

I think everyone fared well enough/got decent screen time and characterisation but the standouts were Rip, Sara, Cold and the Firestorms for me.

 

Nice that we had Laurel, Oliver and Gideon from the parent shows pop up and Savage wasn't used too much. Off to a great start I think, 8/10

[Enigma X]

It was ok. leaning more toward good. I see it following the same path that Arrow and The Flash have followed though. In my opinion that means having a good first season but deteriorating after that.

 

I already hate Savage (and not in a love/hate way) and sort of feel the same way about Cold. They former is a mustache twirling villain and the latter is overly exaggerated in character. Why can't shows write three dimensional villains anymore?

 

Is there an unpopular opinions thread yet? I am itching to write one that may be major about the cast off my chest now. (No, it is not about my beloved Arthur Darvil.)

[HighwayFlower]

I would definitely like to see more layers to the characters, but that's not something I really expect from a pilot. These guys are strangers, and I think the show will be much better once we start seeing them grow bonds and become a dysfunctional family. That's going to take time though, and I liked the show enough to give it that.

[Glory]

What I don't grasp, is how a Time Master (?) could grab up eight people in 2016, and tell them that they were going to travel back and forwards in time, fighting evil... and nobody spoke the word Tardis?  

 

Just wait until the run to Cisco for help. He'll be all over that. 

 

The thing that gets me though is that we see Oliver talking with Ray and there is NOT ONE MENTION of the fact that Felicity was just paralyzed and that Ray's nanotechnology might be helpful here. NOT ONE MENTION.  This is why sometimes the cross-overs don't work for me. 

 

Otherwise, I really liked it. I really liked the dynamic within the team and any show that has Caity Lotz in it is pretty perfect in my book. 

[Athena5217]

The pairing of Sarah with Cold and Heatwave was unexpected and delightful. I would go bar hopping with them anytime!

I like the idea of Jax as the reluctant hero while Stein is gung-ho about time travel--it plays against type and should make for good character development in the future.

Now the big impediment to my enjoyment of this show....

The actors who play Hawkman and Hawkgirl are terrible. He is wooden, and she confuses the "I'm about to have a large bowel movement face" with the "I'm expressing deep emotion face." Eyebrows crinkled and lips parted---look out because either Hawkgirl is going to unleash a stinker or share some feelings. I have some sympathy for the fact that the characters are difficult. But then they speak, and I think about all the other actors who have played characters with exceptionally long histories like Ioan Gruffudd, John Barrowman, and Rachel Weisz--and I realize these actors are just Bad.

[HunterHunted]

Cisco should really just open up a business where he makes costumes and weapons for a living, everyone and their momma goes to him for a clothes and weapons.

No capes!!!

[jaytee1812]

I thought the Stein kidnapping of Jax was disgusting, did no-one see a problem with it being the black guy being kidnapped by a white guy and ripped from his home against his will, and forced into this? Because it was really what the white guy wanted. The fact he changed his mind in the end is irrelevant. 

 

Hackman basically beating Hawkgirl into going was a bit dubious too. 

 

Amell looked wooden opposite Brandon Routh. It left me thinking they should've cast Routh as Oliver Queen, even at his creepiest on Arrow he was still rootable. Smell just make OQ seem more like a controlling abusive creep. (Hence why I stopped watching Arrow)

 

Did no-one really notice when a tech billionaire who had made several tech advances died? Sorry don't believe that, it's like saying no-one would care when Alan Turing or Steve Jobs died, that we wouldn't notice Tim Berners-Lee or Bill Gates. Sorry, not buying that. 

 

Also show, I know Sara is a well trained assassin, but small woman v big guy is always gonna lose. Always. Always. It's not just this show, NCIS used to be really bad for it, as is Hawaii Five-0 (and I love Kono). Unless they have actually superpowers like Buffy or Jessica Jones or Supergirl, otherwise stop with the tiny girl can beat big lump. 

 

And in that vain, Hawkgirl is about as threatening as a teddy bear, same with Hawkman to be fair. 

 

It was decent apart from that. I didn't realise how much I'd missed Arthur Darvill from my screen. Victor Garber was also excellent. 

 

I loved the Lance sisters scene, mostly I admit because I missed Laurel since I stopped watching Arrow. But I didn't mind Caity Lols in this she was interesting, I liked the 'we can change the future speech'. Although I wish it was Laurel on this show. (Actually could they add Thea, Roy and Malcolm too). 

 

All in all, I'm in. 

[Sakura12]

A tiny highly martial arts trained woman can beat up an untrained man. She just has to be quick enough to not let him get a hit in, which Sara was. They also probably weren't expecting her to be a ninja. Plus this is a comic book show, people are going to be performing unbelievable feats no matter what. 

[lulee]

I'm a CW DC virgin, but I thought I'd give this show a try as I like Miller, Garber, Purcell, and Darvill (although from Broadchurch - never caught up with Dr. Who). Some good fun, some clunkiness, but I'll tune in again.

 

I do think Gideon needs a software upgrade though for the line, "the early second millennium A.D." -- not by how I count milennia.

[festivus]

I really love this cast, minus the hawkpeople. I hope they get killed off. I would have rather kept their son. All in all though I liked it. I love Rory getting his own time machine and anytime I can see Sara is a good thing. Cold and Heat are pretty funny and I loved Stein. I like Ray being geeky with Stein, I hope they keep him like that. I also had to laugh at them going back to 1975 with the same song that Austin Powers did.

[KirkB]

I'm also of the opinion this should have been a two hour premiere. I mean, I guess it IS, but all in one night rather than spread across two weeks.

 

Overall, I really enjoyed it. It was exactly what I wanted it to be, fun. But I do have one problem, and that's Savage. Putting aside the fact I still don't understand why he is so dangerous since he's just immortal, not indestructible, so there is no reason he can't be caged, I'm having a hard time with the actor. Casper Crump is probably a fine actor and maybe a great guy, I don't know, but visually he is just so...underwhelming. I had a similar problem with Matt Nable as Ra's al Ghul. Savage, to me, is supposed to be a physically imposing guy. I can get past it, he just doesn't look the part IMO.

 

Stein drugging Jax was a problem for me. The guy didn't want to go. No one should have forced him to, especially not the guy he has to share a body with. How do you trust somebody after that?

 

Sara, Cold and Mick were gold. I'd watch a show just with the three of them. 

 

Ray never bothered me as much as he did some people. Here, away from Oliver's show, he was better because he wasn't in the way. And I understand Ray being so insecure. A genius billionaire who was on top of the world 'died' and found out the world didn't really care that much. He was mourned, sure, but from his point of view he'd had little real impact. Being the Atom allows him to directly help people.

 

I wasn't too impressed with the Hawks in the crossover and they have done little here to change my mind. Honestly, I'm not sure why we need both of them. When it was first announced Hawkgirl would be a part of LoT I was intrigued, and curious to see how they'd do the wings. As soon as I heard they were going to bring in Hawkman too and focus on the love story I lost a great deal of interest. It doesn't help that their story is integral to Savage's, so they will both have to be around as long as he is. Come to think of it, couldn't Rip go back to an earlier point in the timeline and grab Shiera and Kufu in one of their early reincarnations and hide them? If he can't kill them 200+ times wouldn't Savage stop being immortal?

 

Speaking of Rip, I thought he was great too. Arthur Darvill was clearly enjoying being the guy in charge of the time machine for a change.

Edited January 22, 2016 by KirkB

[Glory]

Come to think of it, couldn't Rip go back to an earlier point in the timeline and grab Shiera and Kufu in one of their early reincarnations and hide them? If he can't kill them 200+ times wouldn't Savage stop being immortal?

 

 

There's a lot that doesn't work here with the Hawks. If Hawk-bro has all his memories and we just LITERALLY heard Boardman tell them about a time that they died. Couldn't they just go back in time to right before the Hawks got murdered by Savage and set a trap? I mean... this is not that hard. If they don't explain why this is not a valid solution it will be hard to handwave away. 

 

I do like Kendra though. Hawk-bro can scram. 

[Delphi]

I'm getting really tired of these claims that a woman who has been training as an assassin martial artist for roughly six plus years couldn't hold her own in a fight. That's just not true in the least. There are women mma fighters who could easily beat men lacking their training. And in this case it was a drunk man in a bar and I'd like to point out that Sara asked for back up when she logically thought she couldn't handle it on her own.

[FurryFury]

So many plot holes I don't even know where to start. Hawkman claims to have his memories, why didn't he say that the professor was their son? He should have recognized the name and put 2 and 2 together. Time travel rules... Do they exist on this show at all? (Although the same could be said about The Flash, but it's a more central concept here). Time Masters - who, exactly, are they? Why has nobody of the cast grilled Rip about them? Why didn't Rip equip the team with communicators (and trackers) of some kind? Would make sense to do so. Etc., etc.

 

Also, the dialogue was pretty cringey and Ciara Renee wasn't much better than in the Flarrow crossover (I don't get the hate for Hawkman, he's not given much to do and I fully expect him to bite it soon, or at least in the season finale when they discover one of them has to die to kill Savage). 

 

Good points: Sara! Sara, Sara, Sara, oh how I missed you. Even if you're weirdly unlike yourself - I give the writers time to get more comfortable with the character. Her decision to go get drinks in the 70s felt oddly random to me. Really, Heatwave or Cold could have done it, and she'd follow them to make sure they don't get away or something. Also, definitely waiting on something, be it friendship or more, between Cold and Sara, it has potential to be really fun.

 

I was worried they were going to make Ray the lead-ish character or the POV character, thank God, not. 

 

Rip. I like Rip, aside from his cliched motivation. And I didn't care about Rory on DW, so it's not my residual love of the actor (he does look much hotter now).

 

Jax was a bit better than I expected. He was really forgettable on The Flash, but they're trying to give him personality now. But I think he needs to start interacting with somebody other than Stein, pronto.

 

Also, really liked the explanation on why Rip chose this people specifically. Love the "screw destiny" vibe.

Edited January 22, 2016 by FurryFury

[jaytee1812]

I'm getting really tired of these claims that a woman who has been training as an assassin martial artist for roughly six plus years couldn't hold her own in a fight. That's just not true in the least. There are women mma fighters who could easily beat men lacking their training. And in this case it was a drunk man in a bar and I'd like to point out that Sara asked for back up when she logically thought she couldn't handle it on her own.

 

Of course she can, Sara can totally kick ass. But, if a guy is four time her size it's not gonna matter, brute strength will always win. As I say it's a mistake that a lot of shows, even good shows make. If they had a normal size guy in that fight it would've looked so much better. Or on a show like this, why not have the Lazarus Pit give Sara extra strength? 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Meet The Legends Of Tomorrow...And Yesterday, And Today
The newly assembled Legends team wastes no time in traveling -- to the past. Isn't that false advertising?

[Sakura12]

I think Hawkgirl can benefit being away from Hawkman for awhile. I also kind of hope she chooses her own fate and decides screw destiny I don't need to be with him. However they really don't seem to fit with the rest of the group. The rest are a bunch of regular misfits that want something more out of life. 

[miracole]

It was ok.

I loved Rory as a Time Lord.

The Hawks were terrible. Jax wasn't much better but I did like him saying the ship should fire the photon torpedoes. 

I don't watch Arrow and so I was kind of looking forward to seeing Sara since so many people on the boards seemed to like her...yeah, she could have been a hawk instead of a canary. Stein was good despite getting his Bill Cosby on.  I liked the Atom. His disappointment over finding out he was an expendable hero was well done. Captain Cold and Friend were themselves.

I'll keep watching but I hope it gets better.

Edited January 22, 2016 by miracole

[nksarmi]

I'm waiting to find out the truth of it all is that no one had any children.  Because - as others have said - all of these characters have ALREADY impacted the timeline.  Stein in particular helped close a world-ending wormhole on Flash - that's an impact!

 

But yea, if none of them have children and we assume that other "superhero" characters can "take their place" (Blue Beetle for the ATOM, the Hawks get reincarnated anyway, some other hero takes Firestorms place, etc....) then I think the real reason they can be plucked out of the timeline is that they don't have kids.

I think Hawkgirl can benefit being away from Hawkman for awhile. I also kind of hope she chooses her own fate and decides screw destiny I don't need to be with him. However they really don't seem to fit with the rest of the group. The rest are a bunch of regular misfits that want something more out of life. 

 

I'm really - really hoping that Hawkman dies fairly soon.  It does away with the whole - he remembers some things, but not all issue.  And Rip very clearly stated that only ONE of them needed to deliver the death blow.  I think she would be a much more interesting character without him.

[Sakura12]

I also see what the Arrow board means with the horrible stunt double transitions with Laurel. In gif form you can clearly see the stunt doubles face when she's fighting Sara in the Arrow lair. Then when KC was there (in the pic I posted) you can tell how unprepared she was for that, she looked scared or pained, while Caity looked like she was calmly swatting a fly. 

[Starfish35]

A brief summary of the review I wrote last night before it got eaten by my iPad. :(

- as others have said, a very clunky episode, particularly in the first half.

- the background music was distracting in several scenes.

- Ray's much more likeable here than he was on Arrow. I had a feeling he might be, since he was better on Arrow when they just let him be enthusiastic science geek rather than scheming billionaire CEO (not evil scheming, as it turned out, but still).

- the Hawks were better here than in the crossover but they and their past lives drama are still at the bottom of the list of the things I'm interested in.

- agree with KirkB that Casper Crump was seriously miscast, and I'm afraid that might end up really being a serious problem for the show.

- I think Sara and Cold will end up being my favorites, no surprise.

- I hate the White Canary uniform. :(. Hopefully Sara will get to stay more in civilian clothes or undercover outfits.

- I surprisingly did not hate Laurel. I thought the scene with her and Sara was actually a pretty good scene, for her.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Starfish35

[catrox14]

Of course she can, Sara can totally kick ass. But, if a guy is four time her size it's not gonna matter, brute strength will always win. As I say it's a mistake that a lot of shows, even good shows make. If they had a normal size guy in that fight it would've looked so much better. Or on a show like this, why not have the Lazarus Pit give Sara extra strength? 

 

How do you think Bruce Lee would fare against that same drunkard?  

[benteen]

I agree with Savage being an unimpressive villain so far.

[catrox14]

 

Good points: Sara! Sara, Sara, Sara, oh how I missed you. Even if you're weirdly unlike yourself - I give the writers time to get more comfortable with the character. Her decision to go get drinks in the 70s felt oddly random to me. Really, Heatwave or Cold could have done it, and she'd follow them to make sure they don't get away or something. Also, definitely waiting on something, be it friendship or more, between Cold and Sara, it has potential to be really fun.

 

I think ti's easy enough to put Sara's behavior and character differences from Arrow, down to her being dead and in a grave for nearly a year, then being dug up from that grave and put into the Lazarus Pit, which changes the person who comes out of it.

[that one guy]

Okay, I'm not actually hate watching this one, either. I enjoy it and I don't expect it to be good. I hated Arrow for killing off the wrong sister, didn't like the show without Caity Lotz, and stopped watching until I saw in a promo they were resurrecting her and then did a marathon to catch up. That, and seeing Rory with his own time machine, is why I'm watching this stupid show. So I'll come right out and say I think this would be a much better show if everyone except Rory Williams, Canary, and the guys from Prison Break died horribly in episode 2. Hawkman first.

 

I like the unhinged, back from the dead Canary even more than the previous incarnation, although I think she belongs on a show that allows for fewer standards and practices. How much fun would she be in a Netflix show?

 

I think the scene in Tibet is supposed to be set in the bar from Raiders of the Lost Ark. Although wasn't that Nepal?

 

The BBC should sue, since the show obviously has Time Lords in it and Rory Williams steals a time machine. And I think they stole Kronos' costume from a 1970s episode of Doctor Who.

 

Speaking of which, the whole show will be worth it if Karen Gillan guest stars and is mean to Rory. I miss them so much. Sigh. I remember when Doctor Who was a good show. And Arrow. And Prison Break. And Alias. So, great job with the casting! These are actors who can make good shows! Now give them something interesting to do. The bar scene was absolutely the highlight of the episode. Stein drugging his other half, not so much. Hey, isn't Stein married? How's she gonna feel about him disappearing again? You know this "I'll bring you back 5 seconds after we left" thing never works out, right?

 

But, if a guy is four time her size it's not gonna matter, brute strength will always win.

 

 

Not necessarily. Real life fighting is not boxing and there are tools you can employ in an asymmetrical fight. In Aikido, for example, they train you to use an opponent's strength and momentum against him. When there aren't rules of engagement, the strategy against a larger opponent is 1) don't let him land a blow, and 2) use his inertia. When someone punches and misses, he's off balance. You can use that, rather than your own strength, to get him off his feet. Inertia and a high center of gravity can be weapons in the hands of a skilled opponent.

[blackwing]

I enjoyed it.  I didn't think it was fantastic but I thought it was decent enough.  The cast is huge and pretty much all of them need some special effects or so.  I am wondering how big the budget is.  This show definitely looks a lot more expensive to produce than "Arrow".

 

I like the idea of them time travelling.  I hope that they actually do significant time travelling (Ancient Egypt, Ancient Rome, early England, Italian Renaissance) etc. and not just 1920s / 1960s / 1980s USA.

 

I don't watch Flash, but I thought that Robbie Amell was the younger half of Firestorm?  What happened and why did he get replaced?  The cynic in me says they replaced him with this Jefferson Jackson and added Kiara because they knew they were doing this show eventually and they didn't want an entirely lily white team.

[Chicago Redshirt]

What happened in Flash is that Barry accidentally caused a potentially world/universe destroying singularity to open up above Central City. Prof. Stein theorized that the energy from Firestorm splitting while within the singularity would help to close it. In the aftermath, Stein turned out (reasonably) OK, but Ronnie was nowhere to be found and presumed dead. Later, Stein was having adverse reactions from being on his own, and so Team Flash went looking for a compatible Firestorm partner and found Jax.

 

As to why, it could be any number of reasons besides increasing the diversity of LoT: Robbie's availability, Flash wanting to experiment with the Caitlin/Jay Garrick flirtation, behind-the-scenes relationships between Robbie and the producers, so on and so forth. 

Edited January 22, 2016 by Chicago Redshirt

[Delphi]

Hey, Martha got dropped off at the right time! At least she did the first time.

[InsertWordHere]

I had a problem with Stein forcing Jax to go against his will and no one questioning whether the passed out guy really wanted to time travel or not. I also thought it was disturbing when Mick Rory made some comment about getting some more of the drug Stein used. I think (hope) he wanted the drug so he could use it to steal things from passed out people and not so he could use it to, well, "get his Bill Cosby on" as someone said upthread. 

[Sakura12]

The decision making with the writers on these shows baffle me. How can they not see how things look?

 

I also don't know why we needed a reluctant one in the first place. Jax could've questioned it, then showed up at the last minute. 

[benteen]

I think ti's easy enough to put Sara's behavior and character differences from Arrow, down to her being dead and in a grave for nearly a year, then being dug up from that grave and put into the Lazarus Pit, which changes the person who comes out of it.

 

Sara was a party girl before everything happened to her when she got on that boat with Oliver.  It might have been an effort for her to get back to normal and she did seem to be enjoying herself.

 

Karen Gillan appearing would be great but I think we're more likely to get Alex Kingston since she plays Sara's mom.  Would definitely like to see a scene with her and Arthur Darvill.