S02.E11: Rise Of The Villains: Worse Than A Crime

[formerlyfreedom]

When Bruce Wayne is kidnapped, Gordon must look to some unlikely and dangerous allies for help. It is a battle of the villains, and not everyone makes it out alive.

 

 

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Welcome to the show, Mr. Freeze.

So, they wrote Morena's pregnancy into the show.

[Spartan Girl]

Wow. Hello Mr. Freeze.

Disappointed that Tabitha got away and that Galavan is going to be resurrected by that freaky hospital.

Big LOL at Penguin's reaction to Leslie saying she was pregnant, and Nygma's shock that Lucius Fox solved his riddle so quickly.

[Primetimer]

It's the midseason finale, and nothing will ever be the same! Except for the things that will.

Read the story

[Sakura12]

Why did they make Mr. Freeze look so much like Firefly? I thought that was her until he froze the guy.

 

Gordon's such a psycho, how does he become commissioner? So they wrote the pregnancy in, are we getting Jim Jr. or Barbara Gordon? I'm guessing Jim Jr. because it would be hard to buy them naming their baby after Barbara. Or I guess Lee could still die and we get no baby. 

 

Fox, Cat. Cat, Fox. Lol Selina's got some moves I wish we could've seen more of that. 

 

I'm not happy Tabitha got away but I am happy she kicked her brother and took Silver with her. So those people are saving Batman's rogues gallery for when he's older? How nice of them to wait until Gotham has a hero. 

[Happywatcher]

Silver getting converted by Bruce. Well done.

 

Jim learning a lesson on recidivism, now we need to order him a pistol lanyard from amazon.

 

The dirty boss from Shield is going to end up being a dirty boss. Darn.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Happywatcher

[Pyralis]

Given that we knew Bruce would be rescued, I enjoyed the humour they were able to interject:

Lucius look of WTF as he realized he was surrounded by "crazy" people. "Cat, Fox. Fox,Cat".  Ed playing whatever that instrument was to Penguin as Jim wakes up to it.  And me thinking, "well here's a good spot for a threesome". Harvey in every scene.  Dumping a bucket of water over Alfred.  Cat's "Martian" comment to the character, given "Who" the actor is.

 

The Dr. Strange mention and Mr. Freeze scene did little for me, but that was also true until with many of the other characters at first.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Pyralis

[Biggie B]

Loved it. Penguin's eye roll when Lee said she was pregnant; Lucius Fox meeting up with Penguin, et al.; Harvey shooting Arvin Sloane, still huffing and puffing from having climbed the stairs; the umbrella shoved down Theo's throat - all hilarious!

 

I'm glad Tabitha roughed her brother up, but she certainly doesn't deserve to get away - she was as awful as her brother and for heaven's sake, she dared to try to kill Alfred!! For that alone, she deserves a taste of her own medicine.

 

They sure are building up quite a stockpile of villains in Indian Hill, aren't they.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Biggie B

[superjengirl]

My thoughts for this episode:

Geez, I thought that was Firefly at the end until ice cams out.

I absolutely loved the "Save Baby!Bat" Dream Team.

I couldn't tell if Silver is being sincere or playing Baby!Bat until she screamed before they could kill Bruce.

I'm creeped out by that lab of evil people.

Couldn't that guy hear Selina jumping on that railing? I could...Some guard.

Oh my gosh, I think Alfred needs a vacation.

I love Fox. Loved that he could figure out Ed's riddle so quick and seems to have more sense than the most of them.

You know most of these guys won't die, but these scenes always make me cringe in suspense.

Geez, it won't be back until February -_-

Edited December 1, 2015 by superjengirl

[HalcyonDays]

Phew. Good, Galavan is gone. Finally. I was getting sick of the mustache twirling. Gordon being the one to shoot him though - I was surprised. Looks like Jim turned a significant corner.

 

Loved the Penguin/Gordon/Alfred "gangs" combining forces to rescue Bruce. And was there anything better than Teen!Cat showing up and fighting equally alongside adult males. God, I loved that. And not one of them said something like "she's too young", or implied she couldn't come along, she's a girl, or anything. Just, "Grab a vest, let's go". Awesome.

 

Glad Tabitha turned on her pathetic brother. The current boss is starting to irritate me, he's too by the book. I understand why, but he's hindering, not helping.

 

Bruce and Silver scenes were sweet actually. And love Bruce reading her perfectly, that it was an act. But he still had a heart and empathy for Silver. That's a nice focus on that trait for the future Batman, as he fights to save Gotham. Anyone think his favourite animal was gonna be a bat?

 

That Wayne Enterprises hospital/freak medical place creeps me out. I think that's how we are going to see Jerome be the Joker. We've seen so many bodies arrive at that place, for them to do little experiments on them, and possible have them come back to life. The Joker will be Jerome, experiemented on (hence the acid grin) allowing the same actor to play him - if Gotham gets there.

[pitchnduel]

Roger Sterling will charge a royalty for his joke: "Crab, Duck. Duck, Crab."

[Lantern7]

I'm going to miss the show. Supergirl doesn't bring the insanity Gotham does. Nothing can surprise me anymore. Mr. Freeze could've done a jig to "Ice, Ice Baby," and I wouldn't have batted an eyebrow.

 

So . . . Theo lives. Takes away from Jim shooting him after Oswald worked him over, but what the hell. Theo should go through the hell of being a pawn as opposed to a king. And how about his sister and niece floating away on parachutes? Only in Gotham. I bet it doesn't occur to anybody that they have to land somewhere.

 

I'm betting Leslie was lying about being pregnant. Would be funny if they named the kid after Barbara.

[Happywatcher]

What kind of pistol did Jim have? It looked cool for this scene and type of show.

[Cthulhudrew]

Knives to the back just don't slow people down like they used to. 

 

Am I the only one wondering if Lucius has been down in that basement since episode 2?

[MrWhyt]

What kind of pistol did Jim have? It looked cool for this scene and type of show.

looked like some variant of the classic 1911, nothing exotic.

[scarynikki12]

Ha! I knew they'd write Morena's pregnancy into the show.  If Barbara kidnaps the kid and keeps her long enough for her name to stick then I'll have accurately predicted a story!

[Delphi]

Oh look, Fish is either alive and being experimented on. Or dead in a jar. How neat!

I love Selina, she has those natural Krav mogov skills.

[thuganomics85]

 

Am I the only one wondering if Lucius has been down in that basement since episode 2?

Nope, when he popped out, I was wondering if he's just been there then entire time.  He's barely been used this season, despite Chris Chalk being a regular now.  Too bad, since he was actually pretty fun in this one.  I liked how Lucius just couldn't believe half of the stuff that was going on.  If only he knew that this was only the tip of the crazy that happens on this show.

 

So, Jim and Leslie now both know Edward is hanging around with Oswald, so how is that going to change their working relationship?

 

Figured Tabitha was going to take out Theo.  I guess she either has a soft spot for Silver, or is just tired of Theo's shit.  Kind of surprised they actually had Jim kill Theo like that.  I always remember Commissioner Gordon being a sort of moral center of the Batman franchise, but they are clearly taking him down a much different path here.  Of course, now it seems like Theo's body is in the hands of Dr. Strange, so a resurrection could be happening, I guess.

 

At least Bullock got to take out Hooded Arvin Sloane.  Almost makes up for the lack of screen time so far.

 

Selina and Alfred together cracked me up, and almost made me forget about the time he punched her in the face.  Almost.

 

"He's like a son to me!"  The hell you talking about, Barnes?!  Overdramatic much, buddy?

 

Not impressed with Mr. Freeze's look, but I guess this is his first attempt at it.

[Gulftastic]

Bruce's favourite animal is the owl.

 

On Earth 3, Batman's counterpart is 'Owlman'.

[Milz]

Welcome to the show, Mr. Freeze.

So, they wrote Morena's pregnancy into the show.

 

I was surprised they wrote the pregnancy in.

 

Anyhow, I noticed that Selina's clobberin'-time hairdo is the same one she had when she joined Fish's crew.  Speaking of Fish, I thought I saw something with a red/black wig floating in the Body Test Tubes in the spooky laboratory. So I guess baddie's bodies are collected from the morgue and are stuffed into these Body Test Tubes for later reanimation. Coolish

 

Bruce's favourite animal is the owl.

 

On Earth 3, Batman's counterpart is 'Owlman'.

 

.I wonder if Bruce's favorite name for a boy (should he ever have a family of his own) is Manuel?

 

Also, I caught a tiny shout out to the 60's Batman . Bruce tells the Head Monk "You poor deluded old man". Batman in the  Batman is Riled 60's episode tells the girl henchman "Poor deluded child"

[Jediknight]

Bruce's favorite animal is the owl.  Wonder if he feels that way about a court of them.

 

I love Oswald.  This was Robin Lord Taylor's episode to shine, he was great.  He really is becoming the definitive Penguin.  I don't know if there's anyone that he doesn't interact naturally with.

 

Everybody was fantastic this episode.  Top notch way to go to break.

[AConspiracy]

Hey Penguin and his signature umbrella usage!

[darkestboy]

This set up more stuff than it actually solved but at least the Brotherhood stuff is out of the way though.

 

Theo now becomes an experiment for Indian Hill and Tabitha/Silver will obviously be back as well.

 

Mr Freeze's intro at the end was odd but it got my attention though.

 

Liked the variety of characters teaming together to save Bruce as well. 7/10

[Delphi]

I was honestly hoping got Freeze to be a doctor at the Indian Head facility instead of being an already evil young mastermind with a cold gun. That's a bit disappointing. I do hope they find a way to work in his comic backstory.

[driedfruit]

Ha, I knew Wayne Enterprises was resurrecting dead villains. No surprise we saw a tease of Fish. I expect to see Jerome back too eventually. Question is if Barbara is gonna end up there.

 

Speaking of, I'm curious if this baby is gonna be Batgirl or not. I am glad Lee is pregnant though, cause the actress looked it very much.

 

Owls prey on bats Brucey. I love the little moments when we see hints of the guy he's growing up to be, the scenes with Silver were perfect. 

 

Penguin looked extra freckly. Very hot.

[Timetoread]

What kind of pistol did Jim have? It looked cool for this scene and type of show.

 

Not sure what he was carrying but Tabitha had mine.

[Cthulhudrew]

Next season on Gotham: Harvey Bullock leads a deadly team with Lucius Fox and Harvey Dent to take revenge against a world that has forgotten them! Rise of the Underwritten!

[Chaos Theory]

This show is at its best when it enbraces the fact that everyone on the show is a lunatic. Loved Lucious Fox's various degrees of WTF at everything that was going on. Also gut a good chuckle that he was able to figure out Nygma's riddle and Nygma's face when he did:

How many people has Jim murdered in cold blood now?

[Sakura12]

I love how no one questioned bringing a 15 year old along on a machine gun raid. Alfred questioned it because he doesn't like Selina not because she's a kid. Then she more than handled herself..

 

Speaking of that I'm going to have to assume this version of Jim Gordon should have no issues with Batman when he shows up. I'd also love for him to tell him that he worked with a few of the villains back in the day to save Gotham. 

[bluvelvet]

I was shocked when Jim shot Galavan but not surprised given what happened when he let the last criminal go. I also assume Penguin now has two things to hold on Jim. That's the second murder on Jim's rap sheet.

I also assume that Lee won't know about the latest murder and Barbara will back into play, otherwise why show Jim dreaming about her death.

Loved Bruce! His "I don't love you " was great. He wasn't fooled and still helped her out.

[Cthulhudrew]

I was shocked when Jim shot Galavan but not surprised given what happened when he let the last criminal go. I also assume Penguin now has two things to hold on Jim. That's the second murder on Jim's rap sheet.

 

I'm still not clear as to why Jim didn't just leave him to the Penguin to kill and wash his hands of the whole affair; if nothing else, bullets from his service weapon wouldn't be in the body.

[Perfect Xero]

I don't think Gordon was using his service weapon, rather one of Penguin's guns. At least I hope that he and Harvey weren't dumb enough to shoot a bunch of people in a vigilante raid with guns that can be traced back to them.

 

Of course Nygma is, apparently, the only forensics scientists at the GCPD, so it might not matter.

 

I'm not sure what to make of how compromised this version of Gordon is. Two (three, if you Selina) of Batman's future rogues now have pretty serious dirt on Jim. Granted, they don't have evidence other than their word, but it really doesn't match up with most other versions I've seen where Gordon is the one clean cop in Gotham.

[Dobian]

I too loved the "Dream Team" Bat Rescue Squad.  Cat, Fox, Alfred, Penguin, Jim, Harvey, assorted goons, lol.  Penguin did have some of the great lines and reactions of the episode.  I can't express how much I love this version of Penguin.  Overall it was a great mid-season finale, but I have to wonder about how dark they trying to make Jim, and how they plan to reconcile that with him becoming police chief one day.  I thought the plan was for him to become a law and order guy and stop fraternizing with underworld.  Plus how does he plan to explain what happened with Galavan to the current chief?

Edited December 1, 2015 by Dobian

[cali1981]

So the rock steady and pure  Jim Gordon capped Galavan to impose and insure true justice. Say it ain't so, Jim, say it ain't so.  In keeping with the upcoming blockbuster, I can almost hear Darth Vader and the Emperor cackling in the background with "welcome to the dark side of the Force, young Anarkin Skywalker Gordon"

[Chaos Theory]

I love how no one questioned bringing a 15 year old along on a machine gun raid. Alfred questioned it because he doesn't like Selina not because she's a kid. Then she more than handled herself..

Speaking of that I'm going to have to assume this version of Jim Gordon should have no issues with Batman when he shows up. I'd also love for him to tell him that he worked with a few of the villains back in the day to save Gotham.

It is possible that there is an event in *this* Jim Girdon's life that shakes him to the core and flips a switch him in from gunslinging sheriff to hard ass rule book guy and the emergence of Batman evens him out. Edited December 1, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[CMH1981]

Is it normal to get based in face like that?  I would think that would do some serious mental damage.

 

Loved Fox figuring out Nygma's riddles like that, and what is w/ Edward's riddles being so easy to figure out...are they dumbing them down for the audience?

 

I would think Penguin would be pissed that Nygma's is so loose w/ their hideout, and I would think Eddie wouldn't want everyone to know who he is associating w/ outside of work.  Oh well...

 

So this Gordon is a killer...that's interesting...I'm not sure Bruce would approve.

 

I loved the whole slow walk of the "Save Bruce Squad" but then they showed they were what...almost six blocks away from where they needed to be...seriously?!

 

I love Selina, don't get me wrong, but I still don't buy her this much of a badass yet...

 

Bruce knowing the whole Silver faux escape plan was good.  I love how they are slowly building the Batman bullshit detector.  This kid is good in the role.

 

I have a feeling that we will be going down the Gordon/Thompkins child will end up being James "batshit" Gordon Jr, and he will have daddy issues after James leaves Leslie for Barbara so we can eventually get our Babs "Batgirl" Gordon.  Just my hunch.

Edited December 2, 2015 by CMH1981

[maczero]

How many people has Jim murdered in cold blood now?

I believe it's only one.  Everyone else Jim has killed falls under self defense, protecting someone else or in the line of duty.  There is that guy that Jim killed after stealing from him but that can arguably still be considered self defense since he tracked Jim down and shot at him first.

 

That said, this is a pretty dark path Jim is going down. 

 

I'm still not clear as to why Jim didn't just leave him to the Penguin to kill and wash his hands of the whole affair; if nothing else, bullets from his service weapon wouldn't be in the body.

Maybe a bit of mercy on Jim's part.  I'm sure Penguin would've drug out Galavan's death and made it as painful as possible.  I'm guessing Jim is comfortable enough with murder but torture plus murder was too much for him stomach.  Although it was pretty cold blooded of Jim to let Penguin get in that many swings before stepping in.

 

On a side note, am I only one thinking that it seemed out of character for Penguin to let Gordon have the kill shot and not say a word about it?

 

It is possible that there is an event in *this* Jim Girdon's life that shakes him to the core and flips a switch him in from gunslinging sheriff to hard ass rule book guy and the emergence of Batman evens him out.

Maybe Chiklis's death brings him back from the edge.  Although, I wouldn't call future Gordon a rule book guy.  He routinely condones and aids the actions of a vigilante.

[formerlyfreedom]

I loved the whole slow walk of the "Save Bruce Squad" but then they showed they were what...almost six blocks away from where they needed to be...seriously?!

 

IKR?? They looked so cool, and then panned to where they were headed, and I thought, "Maybe you should have gotten dropped off closer?" Between that and the steps, Bullock probably needed a nap when all was said and done!

[Danielg342]

I was ready for The Theo Galavan Show to be over...then we saw him in Indian Hill.
 
*sigh*
 
I guess the only respite is that he likely won't be in the next few episodes when the show returns sometime during the next Ice Age.
 
(Seriously, FOX? Did you not learn from last year? The three-month hiatus could kill this show)
 
As for this episode itself...I thought it was rather slow, and perhaps I should have expected that with the episode geared towards that big clash at the end. However, having already known how this would end- c'mon, did anyone really think Bruce Wayne would have died?- the episode really lacked any kind of urgency, so it became an exercise in testing my patience...and boy, did it fail.
 
I did enjoy Silver's storyline. I had no idea- in a good way- where any of it was going, and if Silver really was playing Bruce (and vice versa). I liked how Bruce just didn't believe that Silver was being genuine about her escape plan, even though she actually was, and how Bruce kept on telling Silver "I don't love you" before doing an about face when Theo shows up. That's the way you mess with someone's head, and I like that Bruce is getting the hang of it. He just now needs to read people a bit better, because he was wrong about Silver's true intentions. I liked how Silver had a heart and actually wanted to save Bruce, and I liked that Tabitha saved her from her sadistic uncle. Silver, Tabitha is family, not your uncle. Blood doesn't always mean you can count on them.
 
As for the rest of the episode- the shootout at the end was cool, especially Bullock getting the final shot. Seeing Jim be all kinds of weirded out waking up in Nygma's apartment was also cool too. Lee had some great angsty moments but really didn't have much to do.
 
Oh, and Barnes...really went overboard with the whole "I am the law" thing. Gordon may have punched the mayor but he didn't escape on his own will. He should have checked in with his "officers" first before charging Gordon with a crime. Beginning to think he really doesn't get this town, and it's grating.
 
Overall, though, it was way too slow with a lot of false urgency, because I already knew the ending. Perhaps if Silver had actually escaped- forcing the Save Bruce team to have to look for him- that might have given the episode purpose, because now there's part of the episode that actually is a mystery.
 
The Bullock Meter:
 
5- He did have quite a bit to do and had some nice quips and observations ("something funny, Ed?"), and it was amusing seeing him struggle up the stairs. Plus, he did get the decisive shot in the shootout. Still, he mostly did a lot of standing around, although in this episode, he was the perfect counterpoint to the dunderhead Barnes, since Bullock actually does seem to grasp what's going on in Gotham and how to do things. He'd make a great commissioner.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Danielg342

[CMH1981]

 

I liked how Bruce just didn't believe that Silver was being genuine about her escape plan, even though she actually was

 

But she wasn't at first though...right?  The whole being in the cell and then shooting the monk follower and the escaping w/ Bruce, then eventually getting caught by Galavant was all part of the con to get Bruce to say he loved her.  Bruce knew all along she was still conning him but went along w/ it.  Her "genuineness" didn't come till after she admitted everything when Bruce called her out that he knew, and then decided to help her look good in the families eyes

[Danielg342]

But she wasn't at first though...right?  The whole being in the cell and then shooting the monk follower and the escaping w/ Bruce, then eventually getting caught by Galavant was all part of the con to get Bruce to say he loved her.  Bruce knew all along she was still conning him but went along w/ it.  Her "genuineness" didn't come till after she admitted everything when Bruce called her out that he knew, and then decided to help her look good in the families eyes

 

It's kind of open-ended. We can't really know for sure when Silver decided to stop playing and started to be real. The only time we know for sure was when she stopped the death ceremony.

 

In any case, it was still all wonderfully played by Bruce- he knew what Silver wanted, and used it against her, essentially solely for his own benefit. By telling her repeatedly that he doesn't love her, it forced her to at least think in her head, "yes I do, and I need to prove it", and Bruce knew she'd have a chance to actually prove it at the ceremony if he gave her that chance, which is why he decided to wait until the last minute to say "yes I do love you and I forgive you". It was a cunning display of emotional manipulation, the kind of trick Bruce needs to master, because he'll be in a bind again and he'll have to play his opponent's mind to get out of it.

[Jediknight]

On a side note, am I only one thinking that it seemed out of character for Penguin to let Gordon have the kill shot and not say a word about it?

I don't really see it being out of character, he considers Jim a friend.  That's one thing Penguin has always been 100% truthful about, he probably hasn't had a lot of friends so he's attached to Jim.  He also knows when Theo was ordering Jim to kill him, Jim refused and told Penguin that he knew that Theo killed his mother.  He already got to beat the everloving crap out of Theo, so he thought he was being a friend by letting Jim do the killing after everything Theo had done to Jim.

[Ailianna]

Penguin is actually pretty cool about sharing his toys with those few friends he claims.  He'd probably let Nygma use his umbrella in a rainstorm too.

[HoodlumSheep]

Woo! Finally watched the episode.

It was pretty good.

I liked the Bruce/Silver scenes (not from a shipper point of view). They were good.

Yay for Tigress not putting up with Theo's crap and taking Silver with her.

Glad to see Lucius again.

Still not enough Harvey. Glad he got to save the day though.

Barnes was very irritating this episode with the whole, "I NEED PROOF!" stuff. It was kind of understandable, but very annoying at the same time. Also, Barnes, two good cops dead is not the truth. They were bought out by Galavan, although I guess you don't know that.

I think Jim and Lee are heading for a break up.

Loved the whole team up.

Yay for Mr.. Freeze! Boo for the possibility of Theo being resurrected or whatever. I want him to stay dead and gone! *shakes fist*

I'll never forgive him for killing Jerome. Speaking of the human test tubes...I wonder if this means there's a chance we could see him again someday.

[Traveller519]

Oh Gotham, you are true to form lunacy and it's fantastic.

 

The Merry Band of Vigilantes was tremendous on their approach. Naturally Selina/Cat is lurking by and ready to go, so let's have a momentous walk-up even if we don't have a back-up plan. (Thank you Mr. Fox for being the Greek Chorus to this fun).

 

I've said it a few times, but I don't think the production level of this show gets enough credit. It captures the comic book world so well. I love that there's nothing to ground it in an era, and the sound editing and music really adds to the production.

 

Finally did anyone have a weird Shadow come across their screen in the opening shot as it transitions from Jim waking up to Penguin and Nygma at the piano. I'm guessing it was just the silhouette of Jim's knee or something, but it looked really strange.

[Philbert]

 

How many people has Jim murdered in cold blood now?

 

 

One in cold blood. He did technically murder a man early on in the season while in the commission of a felony. He shot the guy during a gun battle in which he was acting in self defense but the law considers a death occurring while committing another crime First Degree Murder in many cases. No ambiguity about Theo Galavan's death though. Gordon executed him and Oswald helped. 

 

I've said it a few times, but I don't think the production level of this show gets enough credit. It captures the comic book world so well. I love that there's nothing to ground it in an era, and the sound editing and music really adds to the production.

 

This ^

Edited December 2, 2015 by Philbert

[mccartygirl]

Great episode! I love it when there's tons of Penguin. One question - where was Zsasz?? I would have thought he would be in this one.

[Danielg342]

Zsasz calls in sick, apparently.

[jhlipton]

Zsasz calls in sick, apparently.

 

"Meh, I wouldn't get to have much fun -- I'll sit this one out."

[Perfect Xero]

The plan didn't call for standing in the middle of a street with no cover and yelling out a warning that you're coming to kill everyone, so they left Zsasz out.