S02.E11: Rise Of The Villains: Worse Than A Crime

[Philbert]

 

The plan didn't call for standing in the middle of a street with no cover and yelling out a warning that you're coming to kill everyone, so they left Zsasz out.

 

 

Yeah Clint Eastwood wasn't invited for the same reason :)

[jhlipton]

Yeah Clint Eastwood wasn't invited for the same reason :)

 

"Do you feel lucky, monk?"

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Gotham Resolves A Plot Or Two
It's the midseason finale, and nothing will ever be the same! Except for the things that will.

[Rockstar99435]

This episode was a lot of fun. I loved so many little things: Penguin's reaction to Lee being pregnant, "Cat. Fox. Fox. Cat.", Cat joining the guys to go save Bruce, Bruce being smart enough to realize he was being played, Tabitha saving Silver and then pushing her out the window. But my favorite moment was the "Can you believe this" look that Alfred and Cat share when Bruce claims he had a plan. Aw. I want them to be friends. More than anything, Cat needs positive, appropriate attention from adults.

[Camera One]

I liked everyone working together to save Bruce.  But I had to agree with Fox... they didn't have a plan.  It was ridiculous as always.  

 

I thought Gordon would just leave Galavan to Penguin and leave.  Was it necessary for him to stand around and watch?  

 

The endless body snatching doesn't intrigue me at all.  Seems like a sloppy way to be able to bring out an old villain any time for no reason.  I would have preferred to see Theo just gone forever.  

 

I liked that Bruce saw through Silver's deception but I didn't enjoy the long heart-to-heart they had.  She didn't really deserve to be someone Bruce opened up to.  I'm glad she was saved at the end, though.

 

I'm finding the show a little tiresome at this point.  The only intriguing long-range plot is the Waynes' secret and Fox comes up to say he fixed the hard drive, and cue another emergency so no new info.

 

They've managed to make Lee into a boring, pointless character.  How is her pregnancy going to add anything to the character?  They are not using the actress to her full potential.  She was the breakout in "V" as that crazy villain.  

 

I did like Alfred and Selina's side-eye when Bruce claimed he had a feasible plan for escape.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Camera One

[Ailianna]

They've managed to make Lee into a boring, pointless character.  How is her pregnancy going to add anything to the character?  They are not using the actress to her full potential.

 

I'm sure they didn't really want to make her pregnant yet, left to their own devices, but since the actress is actually pregnant, they worked that in instead of trying to have her stand behind lamps for several months.

[AzureOwl]

I'm glad Tabitha roughed her brother up, but she certainly doesn't deserve to get away - she was as awful as her brother and for heaven's sake, she dared to try to kill Alfred!! For that alone, she deserves a taste of her own medicine.

 

From a strictly shallow perspective, I'm glad she escaped, since she's far prettier to look at. And with Theo gone, hopefully she will get more to do. 

[Danielg342]

From a strictly shallow perspective, I'm glad she escaped, since she's far prettier to look at. And with Theo gone, hopefully she will get more to do.

I co-sign this 1000%

[Chaos Theory]

Half serious question: is Jim Gordon a villain?

[Perfect Xero]

Half serious question: is Jim Gordon a villain?

 

Because he murdered a billionaire serial killer/super ninja/cult leader who was mayor of the city and had already managed to beat the system once?

[Chaos Theory]

Because he murdered a billionaire serial killer/super ninja/cult leader who was mayor of the city and had already managed to beat the system once?

Well yeah. Also the matter of that other murder he committed while robbing that guy for Penguin and his overall sketchiness. This season is called the Rise Of The Villains.....Or as I like to call it.....The Rise of Jim Gordon.

[blackwing]

Clearly they are setting up for Galavan to return sometime.  If that's the case, bring back Fish too.  I miss Jada Pinkett Smith.  I liked her character's brand of crazy eons more than I did "my shit don't stank" Galavan.

 

Can we at least get a break from him for the remainder of the season?  Let's focus on Mr. Freeze.

Edited December 4, 2015 by blackwing

[paigow]

From a strictly shallow perspective, I'm glad she escaped, since she's far prettier to look at. And with Theo gone, hopefully she will get more to do. 

So far, the writers have established Theo as the "brains" half of the family. Tabitha might get more to do, but as a free agent minion instead of a boss.

[Philbert]

 

Half serious question: is Jim Gordon a villain?

 

Interesting question. I don't think he's a villain exactly but he's certainly not the squeaky clean choirboy that he was in the series Pilot. He's acquired a series of relationships that is very close to compromising his ability to do his job effectively. Ironic since he made those acquaintances while trying to do his job in the first place. If this series has a theme it's probably "The Road to Hell is paved with Good Intentions." Gotham is on a rollercoaster ride to Hell and Jim is helping to push the car.

[Danielg342]

Half serious question: is Jim Gordon a villain?

I'd say it's open-ended right now, and that's a good thing in this case. Gordon's embracing of the dark side is a big part of his character and goes a long way in explaining why his character becomes the way it becomes. Because the only way to really understand Gotham and fight crime is to accept its reality in the first place.

[Perfect Xero]

Well yeah. Also the matter of that other murder he committed while robbing that guy for Penguin and his overall sketchiness. This season is called the Rise Of The Villains.....Or as I like to call it.....The Rise of Jim Gordon.

As I recall that guy was actively trying to kill Gordon at the time, Gordon was trying to get out of there and guy pursued him and was shooting at him. He's very clearly a criminal and he's certainly dangerously compromised by his association with Oswald and, now (to a lesser extent) Nygma and Selina. But, no, I don't consider him a villain within the context of the hellhole that is Gotham City unless he starts going after innocent people. Right now he's ... tarnished much like Harvey was at the start of the series.

[jhlipton]

he's ... tarnished much like Harvey was at the start of the series.

 

That reminds me -- did anyone else get a kind of deja vu during the scene at the pier?  I almost expected Gordon to push Galavan off the side, but instead of shooting at him, like he did with Penguin, shoot him dead.  It seemed like that was what they were setting up!

[Danielg342]

That reminds me -- did anyone else get a kind of deja vu during the scene at the pier?  I almost expected Gordon to push Galavan off the side, but instead of shooting at him, like he did with Penguin, shoot him dead.  It seemed like that was what they were setting up!

 

They probably should have done it that way. Would have been a nice juxtaposition.

[Snookums]

and Nygma's shock that Lucius Fox solved his riddle so quickly.

 

 

Lucius the Luscious Fox is the shit. When he came in announcing he'd fixed the hard drive, my husband and I both honestly thought he'd been down in the Batcave this entire time, working away on this fascinating tech problem, like the Eugene character back on the old Days of Our Lives. His solving of the riddle and being the only guy going "...this isn't a plan. That guy was stabbed in the back and  buried in garbage and tasered and really needs to go to the hospital.  That girl is fifteen. All of these people are crazy. I'm still waiting to hear the plan" makes me love him very, very deeply.

 

 

 

Knives to the back just don't slow people down like they used to.

 

 

 

Gotham has the laziest, most slacker-y bacteria in the damn world. Between Alfred's Dump Tour With Filthy Water After Bath Splash and Jim's Slashing My Hand Open IN A GORRAM SEWER Seems Like A Peachy Notion last week, both of them should be deliriously talking to Barbara's mouth butterfly and Dead Reggie while fighting off 105 degree fevers in the hospital while Lee looks worried and magically turns herself into an internist. 

 

Half serious question: is Jim Gordon a villain?

 

 

Very good question and I think the answer is... maaaaaybe? As long as he keeps pretending his crazy ass life is a series of one offs and coincidences and trying to believe his "real" self is the one who wants to marry Lee and be a good cop, he's in genuine danger of it. Like a functioning alcoholic who can write off the wreckage booze is wreaking in his life because he "doesn't get drunk all the time," Jim is addicted to the darkness of Gotham. He channels it through his sense of honor and justice, but it's taking him over while he pretends to himself that he's got everything under control. He's just got to do this one thing. Not like all those other things he had to do. This one's different and then he's really finished, he is. 

Edited December 8, 2015 by Snookums

[Danielg342]

Love the analogy, Snookums. “Drunk on evil” is a perfect descriptor of what's going on with not just Jim but many other characters in the series. It goes from people who have fully embraced it, like Oswald or Nygma, to those who accept that it “needs to be done”, like Bullock, and those who are in between, like Selina is.

In essence, it's a descriptor too of what the city has become, since it's clear now that evil wins the day. Meaning that only by embracing evil can Gotham overcome it.

[VCRTracking]

Just got caught up on the last couple of episodes.

 

Whoa. Lee is pregnant! With Barbara(Batgirl)?! That's a new twist on the canon.

 

I'm glad they redeemed Silver at the end. It irked me that they made one of the great loves of Batman's life in the comics into a villain.

 

Alfred getting tased made me laugh.

 

I have to say I was impressed by the bearing David Mazouz showed in this episode.

 

Did not expect Mr. Freeze. I'm sure Gotham's version will be better than Ah-nuld, but I doubt he'll sound as "cool"(wink) as Michael Ansara.

Edited December 8, 2015 by VCRTracking

[Kathemy]

I don't think they "redeemed" her. They just gave her that little pinch of redemption that makes it plausible to introduce her as a believable LI later. I doubt Silver will ever be a "genuine-good" character on this show and I approve of the show's decisions. Still ultimately she won't stand a chance against Batcat.

[John Potts]

So Galavan is dead (or at least as dead as anyone gets in comics!) - as a villain, I suppose he was contractually obliged to make two fatal errors: 

 

1) He made Bruce's death overly elaborate instead of just shooting him

2) He taunted Gordon when he had him at gunpoint

 

...had he not done that, Bruce would be dead and he'd be sent to the Cardboard Prison that is Gotham Jail (Blackgate? Don't know if they've named it in series). Not only that, he compounded his error by turning on his confederates when he needed to make a quick getaway and so ended up getting knocked out. Though I suppose Genre Blindness is mandated in any Comic Book inspired show!

 

 

Monty Ashley (from the Recap) Lucius, the only sensible person in the world, suggests that it might be a good idea to have a backup plan, but no one wants to hear that mess.

 

 

Ehh, Backup-Shmackup - from experience of any roleplaying game - once the plan goes wrong, everybody just improvises anyway, so why bother with a plan!

 

 

Cthulhudrew Knives to the back just don't slow people down like they used to.

 

 

Given the angle it was thrown at, it couldn't have been more than a glancing blow. Yes, the wound is liable to get infected (hiding in a rubbish tip will do that!) but that takes a while to take effect.

 

 

Perfect Zero The plan didn't call for standing in the middle of a street with no cover...  so they left Zsasz out

 

 

Hey, you can't argue with a strategy that works for him!

 

 

Danielg342 Bullock actually does seem to grasp what's going on in Gotham and how to do things. He'd make a great commissioner.

 

 

Now that would be interesting. Given the death rate in the GCPD, we might not have to wait too long to see it!

[Danielg342]

Now that would be interesting. Given the death rate in the GCPD, we might not have to wait too long to see it!

I could get behind a storyline where Bullock becomes Comissioner, rules for a few years, and then is forced out by a villain, forcing Gordon to take over.

[Chas411]

Sooo Tabitha's softening towards Silver surprised me..

I'm surprised Jim has gone so dark....