Jeopardy! Tournament of Champions

[30 Helens]

Well, I guess Mattea has had enough of Jeopardy, because that game was obviously thrown. (Sorry, couldn’t help myself.)

3 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

I was rooting for Eric, but damned if Andrew wasn't bold as hell.  He totally deserved that win.  But I'll be rooting for Sam all the way in the final, no matter how stupid the format is going to be.

I agree on all points. Eric was on fire in the beginning, and I thought he had a really good chance. I think he might have taken it if not for Andrew’s luck + very gutsy wagers. He shocked me with that second one, but I think somewhere James Holzhauer was smiling with pride. (I, too, love a gutsy wager, so that was exciting to see.)

After seeing Mattea crush it in the exhibition match, I thought this game was a lock. I’m very surprised at the result, but this just further proves how many factors are in play. It’s not just intelligence, it’s also timing and luck. The cards fell Andrew’s way today. On any other day, it could have been Eric or Mattea.

I’m happy for Andrew. I’m still rooting for Sam. But with three very likeable players in the final, this should be fun!

[Chippings]

Nobody has expressed it yet, but at our house we all thought Final Jeopardy was very oddly worded -- how does a Royal Estate (turned out to be 'gardens') "move" plants from one continent to another?  Haven't looked up this history, but I infer somebody carried the plants from South America to Kew Gardens where they were grown for a while, and then transported to India?  But the word in the question was "moved" -   To us it seemed an impossible concept, phrased as it was.  Was anybody else stymied by that?

Maybe if worded "at this royal estate xxyy plants were cultivated for transport to India .."

[South]

3 hours ago, Chippings said:

Nobody has expressed it yet, but at our house we all thought Final Jeopardy was very oddly worded -- how does a Royal Estate (turned out to be 'gardens') "move" plants from one continent to another?  Haven't looked up this history, but I infer somebody carried the plants from South America to Kew Gardens where they were grown for a while, and then transported to India?  But the word in the question was "moved" -   To us it seemed an impossible concept, phrased as it was.  Was anybody else stymied by that?

Maybe if worded "at this royal estate xxyy plants were cultivated for transport to India .."

Same.  I spent the entire round of thinking music trying to come up with the name of a South American estate.

[BitterApple]

Okay, so I love Mandy Patinkin but I hate guest stars reading clues. I don't know if flipping from host to celebrity throws me off because of the change in tempo and cadence, but the category just seems to drag out. Andrew's "Let's get it over with" and Matt's "Are we done?" sums up my attitude towards pop culture perfectly. 

[shapeshifter]

1 minute ago, BitterApple said:

Okay, so I love Mandy Patinkin but I hate guest stars reading clues. I don't know if flipping from host to celebrity throws me off because of the change in tempo and cadence, but the category just seems to drag out. Andrew's "Let's get it over with" and Matt's "Are we done?" sums up my attitude towards pop culture perfectly. 

I would tend to agree with these👆sentiments in general, but when Mandy Patinkin is doing the video clues, I have to agree with Ken when he assured Andrew and everyone else: “It’s going to be great.”

[GreekGeek]

20 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Okay, so I love Mandy Patinkin but I hate guest stars reading clues. I don't know if flipping from host to celebrity throws me off because of the change in tempo and cadence, but the category just seems to drag out. 

I agree that many of them either read too slowly or the clue is wordy or both. I like hearing Mandy Patinkin sing, but not on Jeopardy!

 I am pleasantly surprised that two of the three finalists were not the superchamps. I thought an Amy/Matt/Mattea final was all but predetermined.

[annzeepark914]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Okay, so I love Mandy Patinkin but I hate guest stars reading clues. I don't know if flipping from host to celebrity throws me off because of the change in tempo and cadence, but the category just seems to drag out. Andrew's "Let's get it over with" and Matt's "Are we done?" sums up my attitude towards pop culture perfectly. 

That's how I feel about the daily doubles. I know they're coming just before their jarring, irritating introduction. They stop the game that's been running smoothly. Guest stars reading clues are less annoying (but I'd prefer not seeing them).

[Cementhead]

9 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

I was hoping they'd have a dead like me clue for him. 

9 hours ago, ProudMary said:

I was waiting for a Chicago Hope clue.

And here I was waiting for a Yentl.

[secnarf]

6 hours ago, Chippings said:

Nobody has expressed it yet, but at our house we all thought Final Jeopardy was very oddly worded -- how does a Royal Estate (turned out to be 'gardens') "move" plants from one continent to another?  Haven't looked up this history, but I infer somebody carried the plants from South America to Kew Gardens where they were grown for a while, and then transported to India?  But the word in the question was "moved" -   To us it seemed an impossible concept, phrased as it was.  Was anybody else stymied by that?

Maybe if worded "at this royal estate xxyy plants were cultivated for transport to India .."

I too was confused, and I actually went to check TJF website for an explanation of FJ as they always do a blurb on it, and yesterday…nothing. 
 

[PaulaO]

I could see Mattea trying to ring in, but Andrew was just a nanosecond quicker.  How did she know those county seats?   I never heard of most of them and I’m from the U.S.  She does know A LOT.

[ams1001]

15 minutes ago, PaulaO said:

I could see Mattea trying to ring in, but Andrew was just a nanosecond quicker.  How did she know those county seats?   I never heard of most of them and I’m from the U.S.  She does know A LOT.

Right? The only reason I know my own county seat is because I live in it...

[chessiegal]

1 hour ago, secnarf said:

I too was confused, and I actually went to check TJF website for an explanation of FJ as they always do a blurb on it, and yesterday…nothing. 
 

No, Andy had an explanation. From The Jeopardy! Fan website:

Quote

More information about Final Jeopardy:

(The following write-up is original content and is copyright 2022 The Jeopardy! Fan. It may not be copied without linked attribution back to this page.)

In the 1720s, Kew Palace, currently located in the London Borough of Richmond upon Thames, was initially inhabited by King George II, finding it to be a perfect private place to live for their family. King George III later also lived there in an attempt to cure his mental illnesses prior to his regency. Today, Kew is the home of the famous Royal Botanic Gardens.

Kew Gardens’ assistance with the introduction of cinchona to India was detailed in the 1931 journal article “Introduction of Cinchona to India”, in the Bulletin of Miscellaneous Information, Vol. 1931, No. 3 (1931), pp. 113-117″

[dgpolo]

8 hours ago, Chippings said:

Nobody has expressed it yet, but at our house we all thought Final Jeopardy was very oddly worded -- how does a Royal Estate (turned out to be 'gardens') "move" plants from one continent to another? 

For me it was Royal Estate + plants = Kew Gardens ; instaget

[Cotypubby]

12 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Then someone explain his betting strategy with $0?  It makes no sense at all as I've explained. Sure Sam had to miss but he was letting even John win with a correct answer no matter if he knew it or not.  And he did not have to bet $0 to protect against them all missing it.  

His zero dollar bet maximized the chances he was going to lose regardless of his final jeopardy answer.  Was basically the worst possible bet he could have made.  He certainly did not play to win based on that bet

So glad mattea lost

Really surprised at this one. Very gutsy again with the literal daily doubles. 

No.

Matt basically had no chance to win if they all got it correct, assuming they all bet optimally for their current scores. He was betting that John would wager enough to pass Sam, and Sam would wager $10,601 to pass Matt’s doubled score and that they would both miss it. And with what they all ended up wagering, if it had been a TS he would have won.

From the wagering calculator:

Matt: You ought to wager to cover John, but since you cannot win on a Triple Stumper if you do so, you should choose between wagering $0 and maximizing your winnings by betting all $16,800. You are in Stratton's Dilemma, calling for a wager of more than $8,400 (to shut out John) or less than $4,400 (risking the possibility of being passed from behind by John). Go with the smaller bet if you believe a Triple Stumper is more likely than a singleton miss by Sam.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Cotypubby

[dgpolo]

I think if I was a conspiracy theorist I would question the buzzer timing for the 3rd podium. But I'm not so I'm fine with all the wins so far (but I'm really happy Amy made it through, from the 1st podium!)

[Welshman in Ca]

For FJ I said the Royal Botanical Gardens at Kew so I gave it to myself.

Showing that sometimes less is more.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Welshman in Ca

[Clanstarling]

16 hours ago, Trey said:

Well I will be rooting for Amy next week but the finalists are all certainly worthy of being champion.

I will be rooting for both Amy and Steve, if that's possible. I like Andrew, and he's a killer player, but I favor the two over him.

14 hours ago, Quickbeam said:

I just got the impression that Matt and Mattea may have other things going on in their lives than Jeopardy. Both played low energy games. I really thought Matt was ill, he didn’t sound great.

She was anything but low energy in the exhibition game (where Matt was a bit low energy).

12 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

I was hoping they'd have a dead like me clue for him. 

Ah, I didn't even think of that. I loved that show.

4 hours ago, GreekGeek said:

I agree that many of them either read too slowly or the clue is wordy or both. I like hearing Mandy Patinkin sing, but not on Jeopardy!

 I am pleasantly surprised that two of the three finalists were not the superchamps. I thought an Amy/Matt/Mattea final was all but predetermined.

Yeah, the Yiddish clue did not require him to sing  a little song. I like Mandy, but a) Jeopardy and b) I'm not fond of his singing (ducking now)

I thought it would be the three of them, and although I like them all, I think the final is going to be brilliant with the three who got there. Did I hear right - would the "final" be more than one game?

I did better than expected on this show, not good by my usual standards, but great given the TOC clues.

[The Wild Sow]

Yes, that wording was so odd!  I was also wondering how an "estate" could move plants from one place to another.  Finally figured out it must be some kind of "Garden."  Kew?  Covent?  Are there others??

I was mostly trying to parse out the clue and going, "Duh....."

[Trey]

9 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Did I hear right - would the "final" be more than one game?

Yes.  Whoever first wins three games will be the champion.  So the final could take 3 to 7 games.

I think that's the way the GOAT tournament worked too.

[Ailianna]

16 hours ago, Chippings said:

Nobody has expressed it yet, but at our house we all thought Final Jeopardy was very oddly worded -- how does a Royal Estate (turned out to be 'gardens') "move" plants from one continent to another?  Haven't looked up this history, but I infer somebody carried the plants from South America to Kew Gardens where they were grown for a while, and then transported to India?  But the word in the question was "moved" -   To us it seemed an impossible concept, phrased as it was.  Was anybody else stymied by that?

Maybe if worded "at this royal estate xxyy plants were cultivated for transport to India .."

To break it down too far, imo, would be to essentially give it away. Which some are really give aways, sure, but I wouldn't expect that in a TOC round for determining the finals. You have three things to put together, I think. 

Category--London Places

Royal connection

Associated with plants

I also never thought royal things would do the actual moving, so the verb didn't come into my thought process at all.

13 hours ago, South said:

Same.  I spent the entire round of thinking music trying to come up with the name of a South American estate.

The category kept me in bounds, so I avoided that problem.

8 hours ago, dgpolo said:

For me it was Royal Estate + plants = Kew Gardens ; instaget

Exactly! I wasn't sure I was right until the reveal, but I couldn't think of anything else that fit the category and the clue.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Ailianna

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I like Mandy, but a) Jeopardy and b) I'm not fond of his singing (ducking now)

I've hardly ever seen him in anything, so I am not at all attached to him as an actor or singer, and Mandy Patinkin as a national treasure is not at all my reality, so that was just another celebrity-presented category that dragged on to me.  I don't hate them, but I'm glad there aren't any more of them than there are.

2 hours ago, The Wild Sow said:

Finally figured out it must be some kind of "Garden."  Kew?  Covent?  Are there others??

Kensington.  Chelsea Physic.  Hill (or whatever the one with the pergola is called).  Kyoto.  Queen Mary's.  Many more -- for a crowded city, there are a lot of gardens!  It's wonderful.

This was one of those clues where I over-thought it (something I'm generally good at guarding against), thinking that for a FJ in a ToC game, it wouldn't be the city's most-famous garden.

[DrSpaceman73]

3 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

No.

Matt basically had no chance to win if they all got it correct, assuming they all bet optimally for their current scores. He was betting that John would wager enough to pass Sam, and Sam would wager $10,601 to pass Matt’s doubled score and that they would both miss it. And with what they all ended up wagering, if it had been a TS he would have won.

From the wagering calculator:

Matt: You ought to wager to cover John, but since you cannot win on a Triple Stumper if you do so, you should choose between wagering $0 and maximizing your winnings by betting all $16,800. You are in Stratton's Dilemma, calling for a wager of more than $8,400 (to shut out John) or less than $4,400 (risking the possibility of being passed from behind by John). Go with the smaller bet if you believe a Triple Stumper is more likely than a singleton miss by Sam.

I realize sam had to miss or it wouldn't matter. 

But the scenatios if Sam misses are 

Matt and John both miss

Matt correct John misses. 

John correct matt misses. 

Both correct 

If John is correct and matt misses the bet basically won't matter assuming a bet by John to beat him.  Zero, all of it doesn't matter

Leaves three other options and Matt's scenario with a zero bet he wins on one of those options. And he is assuming he won't know it that way.  If he at least bets to beat John he wins in 2 of those three scenarios. and he is betting he gets fj and Sam misses then John doesn't matter.  

He was betting that he didn't know it and on the least probable way to win. 

Edited to add I guess he does still win with a $0 bet and he is correct John and. Sam miss. But still betting that at least two others will miss and rendering your answer meaningless in any game let alone a tournament of Champions is just unlikely. The idea you could get fj and still lose....you're betting against yourself

Edited November 12, 2022 by DrSpaceman73

[SHD]

No matter what reasons they gave for the exhibition game, I wonder if it was filmed after the tournament because they knew people would want to see those three play against each other. 

[Prevailing Wind]

2 minutes ago, SHD said:

No matter what reasons they gave for the exhibition game, I wonder if it was filmed after the tournament because they knew people would want to see those three play against each other. 

Then it wouldn't have been a "warm up" round for them.

[dgpolo]

1 minute ago, SHD said:

No matter what reasons they gave for the exhibition game, I wonder if it was filmed after the tournament because they knew people would want to see those three play against each other. 

It was not. Somewhere above in this thread I posted a link to @oneeclecticmom 's blog about that day of filming. Amy also posted to Twitter her thoughts on the day. It was filmed after the last quarterfinals game. There were multiple contestants and family in the audience. It was not filmed after the tournament.

[SHD]

1 minute ago, Prevailing Wind said:

Then it wouldn't have been a "warm up" round for them.

Correct, but I just meant that was the excuse they gave for having the exhibition because they couldn’t say “Hey, we know you want to see this match up, but two of them didn’t make the finals, so here you go!”

1 minute ago, dgpolo said:

It was not. Somewhere above in this thread I posted a link to @oneeclecticmom 's blog about that day of filming. Amy also posted to Twitter her thoughts on the day. It was filmed after the last quarterfinals game. There were multiple contestants and family in the audience. It was not filmed after the tournament.

OK, thanks. I hadn’t seen that. It was just a thought. 

[catrice2]

I don't think the guys tomorrow can beat Mattea on the buzzer. She is pretty fast.  Glad for Sam, but today was a toss up for me. I would have been thrilled to see John win, but not unhappy about Matt either. 

I am glad I was wrong about this!  I hope the finals are competitive.  

[Caoimhe]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

Kensington.  Chelsea Physic.  Hill (or whatever the one with the pergola is called).  Kyoto.  Queen Mary's.  Many more -- for a crowded city, there are a lot of gardens!  It's wonderful.

This was one of those clues where I over-thought it (something I'm generally good at guarding against), thinking that for a FJ in a ToC game, it wouldn't be the city's most-famous garden.

Chelsea Physic sprang to mind immediately but it’s not royal so I went for Kew.

I like all three players in the finals but there’s still a part of me that really wants Amy to win.  She was my choice coming in because I really enjoy watching her calm, no drama playing style.

[Bastet]

9 hours ago, Caoimhe said:

I like all three players in the finals but there’s still a part of me that really wants Amy to win.

Every ounce of me wants Amy to win.  I'll be a lesser degree of happy if Sam wins and I won't be upset if Andrew does, but I unreservedly want Amy to come out on top in the finals.

Any time all three contestants are good players and seem to also be good people, if there's one woman vs. two men, I am rooting for the woman. 

In this case, there's the bonus that Amy reminds me a bit of Julia, one of my all-time favorite champs, in how she calmly and traditionally plays the board.  (I enjoy players with personalities like Mattea's and/or board hopping strategies like several other champs, too; I just particularly respond to the Julias and Amys of the contestant world as that's how I'd play.)

And then add on that, as a transgender woman, Amy has people not just rooting against but spewing hatred at her purely for who she is.  Not mannerisms, not playing style, not an interview about abandoning a puppy -- her very existence has some actively hoping for her to lose (and worse).  So I'm just as fervently hoping she wins.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Bastet

[blueray]

1 hour ago, catrice2 said:

I don't think the guys tomorrow can beat Mattea on the buzzer. She is pretty fast.  Glad for Sam, but today was a toss up for me. I would have been thrilled to see John win, but not unhappy about Matt either. 

I am glad I was wrong about this!  I hope the finals are competitive.  

Fyi, it seems like your an episode behind? Maybe I'm wrong...

[ams1001]

I like everyone so I'm not leaning toward any one player, but part of me wants to root for Sam because he is so far undefeated. Though he'll have to win the first three games to keep that title.

Edited November 13, 2022 by ams1001

[HissyFit]

Look on the cover of Sunday's Parade magazine ... it's Sam!

[dcalley]

4 hours ago, HissyFit said:

Look on the cover of Sunday's Parade magazine ... it's Sam!

Trivia time: This is the last print issue of Parade Magazine. This could very well come up in a Jeopardy clue in a few months!

[opus]

44 minutes ago, dcalley said:

Trivia time: This is the last print issue of Parade Magazine. This could very well come up in a Jeopardy clue in a few months!

I think they had a Parade magazine clue a few weeks ago, maybe back in the second chance tournament?

[dcalley]

1 hour ago, opus said:

I think they had a Parade magazine clue a few weeks ago, maybe back in the second chance tournament?

Indeed they did! https://j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=7495 That's probably why I thought the last print issue might catch a cluewriter's attention.

[Ailianna]

14 hours ago, ams1001 said:

I like everyone so I'm not leaning toward any one player, but part of me wants to root for Sam because he is so far undefeated. Though he'll have to win the first three games to keep that title.

I loved about Brad Rutter that until the GOAT game, he had never been beaten by a human being. (He was beaten by Watson, hence the qualifier; but I wanted him to win that partly so he could keep that very niche title.)

[proserpina65]

On 11/12/2022 at 1:52 AM, Chippings said:

Nobody has expressed it yet, but at our house we all thought Final Jeopardy was very oddly worded -- how does a Royal Estate (turned out to be 'gardens') "move" plants from one continent to another?  Haven't looked up this history, but I infer somebody carried the plants from South America to Kew Gardens where they were grown for a while, and then transported to India?  But the word in the question was "moved" -   To us it seemed an impossible concept, phrased as it was.  Was anybody else stymied by that?

Maybe if worded "at this royal estate xxyy plants were cultivated for transport to India .."

I didn't find the clue strangely worded and I got it right away.  A royal estate being involved in the moving of tropical plants had to be Kew Gardens.

[Cotypubby]

I still don’t understand how an estate “moves” plants.

I had zero clue for that answer and don’t really know how you are supposed to know it.

[possibilities]

Moving a plant is no different than moving anything else. I don't understand why this is so confusing? Would it help if they said "import" or "export"?

Lots of plants are native to one place and brought to another, by someone. A lot of the most common vegetables in the typical USA grocery store were moved from their original place of origin to be cultivated elsewhere. 

Or is the problem about the word "estate"? An estate is either a physical or financial entity. As such, it can be used to transport or cultivate a plant.

I'm not being snarky here. Obviously quite a few people found the clue confusing. I'm  just trying to understand what part of it caused the confusion, so perhaps it could be explained.

[shapeshifter]

17 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Moving a plant is no different than moving anything else. I don't understand why this is so confusing? Would it help if they said "import" or "export"?

Lots of plants are native to one place and brought to another, by someone. A lot of the most common vegetables in the typical USA grocery store were moved from their original place of origin to be cultivated elsewhere. 

Or is the problem about the word "estate"? An estate is either a physical or financial entity. As such, it can be used to transport or cultivate a plant.

I'm not being snarky here. Obviously quite a few people found the clue confusing. I'm  just trying to understand what part of it caused the confusion, so perhaps it could be explained.

I'm not sure, but I think the confusion comes from an "estate" (an inanimate object: an extensive area of land in the country, usually with a large house, owned by one person, family, or organization) having "helped move" something. 

• "To fight malaria, this former royal estate helped move quinine-producing cinchona plants from South America to India"

If there had been more than 30 seconds, most people could have arrived at "Oh. I see what they're going for . . ."
So I imagine the Clue Crew figured it was acceptable for the TOC.

Edited November 13, 2022 by shapeshifter

[chessiegal]

10 hours ago, HissyFit said:

Look on the cover of Sunday's Parade magazine ... it's Sam!

This sent me scrambling for Parade out of the recycle box, because I took it literally! /sigh. My husband says I am the perfect straight man. 😂

[HissyFit]

18 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

This sent me scrambling for Parade out of the recycle box, because I took it literally! /sigh. My husband says I am the perfect straight man. 😂

I'm sorry. Didn't mean to cause a ruckus!

[proserpina65]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I'm not sure, but I think the confusion comes from an "estate" (an inanimate object: an extensive area of land in the country, usually with a large house, owned by one person, family, or organization) having "helped move" something. 

• "To fight malaria, this former royal estate helped move quinine-producing cinchona plants from South America to India"

If there had been more than 30 seconds, most people could have arrived at "Oh. I see what they're going for . . ."
So I imagine the Clue Crew figured it was acceptable for the TOC.

An estate is also an organization, and it's the organization which was involved in moving plants from SA to India.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

An estate is also an organization, and it's the organization which was involved in moving plants from SA to India.

Right! I just meant that for those who first thought of a "royal estate" as a place rather than an organization, 30 seconds wasn't long enough to pivot to the other meaning. Some probably just let it go and got to the correct response, but others got stuck.

[30 Helens]

4 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

An estate is also an organization, and it's the organization which was involved in moving plants from SA to India.

Yes, and if a clue referenced a corporation helping to move something, it probably would not have caused any confusion, despite a corporation also being an inanimate entity. 

I say this as someone who was also confused by the wording, and (by the way) got it wrong. I just think of an estate as physical property, not in terms of the people who live and/or work therein, like I would for a corporation. But that’s my problem, not the clue writers’.

[labresq]

My confusion had to do with how can an estate in London move something from South America, regardless of where it was going or why.

[possibilities]

Someone goes to South America. They take some of the plant, either the actual plant or some seeds. They bring that to London and plant it on the estate. They grow it there, thus introducing it to the new environment.

It's like saying "The Brooklyn Botanical Gardens brought such and such plant from its native habitat to the USA" or "The Bronx Zoo brought giraffes to New York from Africa."

[MrAtoz]

I was also confused by the Final Jeopardy wording.  I assumed that a "Royal Estate" would be a building.  And since it said "former royal estate," I was trying to think of a building that used to belong to the Crown, but doesn't anymore.

[Welshman in Ca]

44 minutes ago, MrAtoz said:

I was also confused by the Final Jeopardy wording.  I assumed that a "Royal Estate" would be a building.  And since it said "former royal estate," I was trying to think of a building that used to belong to the Crown, but doesn't anymore.

It's not like there are no buildings at Kew Gardens, some have been there quite a few years but an estate is an estate not an individual building so I'm not understanding the confusion.

If it was a building wouldn't the question have been what former royal building? 

[Browncoat]

1 hour ago, MrAtoz said:

I was also confused by the Final Jeopardy wording.  I assumed that a "Royal Estate" would be a building.  And since it said "former royal estate," I was trying to think of a building that used to belong to the Crown, but doesn't anymore.

I had that same problem.  Like I said, it made sense after the correct response was revealed, but I had a hard time figuring out what they were looking for.