Season 2 Discussion

[jhlipton]

Really, why can't every sitcom be like this and Brooklyn Nine-Nine?

 

I love Brooklyn Nine-Nine (esp the way Jake and Amy are written and acted) to little teeny tiny pieces.

 

I wanted to love this episode, but it REALLY bugged me that Dre's sister was never considered for custody.

It doesn't bother me that Dre's sister was dismissed so easily because the whole point wasn't how is going to raise the kids if we die, the whole point was to show that Zoe is willing to step up and raise her siblings. No one was ever a serious contender

 

From a "meta" point-of-view I can see Dre's sister not being a contender, but I felt that the way they wrote that was clunky.

[jhlipton]

Both my first and current wives took my name, but it was totally their choice (my wife uses her last name, my last name and a hyphenated name on a random basis, though.)

 

 

The bizarro silliness of it is what made it funny to me.

 

Yes, this.

[TeeVeeStevie]

The silliness of the Johnson/Johnson argument was obviously the source of the humor, but looking at the situation realistically, it was Bow's fault for making a distinction between the two identical names in the first place. If she had just said "Maybe they [the lesbians] will each keep their own last name; some couples do that." the whole pointless argument could have been avoided. Dre's ridiculousness after that was just a response to her initial ridiculousness.

Which last name(s) to use is something couples should discuss before getting married and be on the same page about, just like everything else. It does impact men because they're 50% of the marriage and have to live with whatever decision is made too. They should not be left out of the conversation as someone upthread suggested.

[mansonlamps]

My parents cooked, cleaned, sewed, gardened, roofed, plumbed, you name it. That DIY ethos really shaped me. I loathe cleaning my house, and would love to hire someone to do it for me. But I'm incredibly uncomfortable with the power dynamic, with being the "kind of person" who hires help (aka lazy / spoiled*), with asking someone to clean my floors and bathrooms (if I think it's gross, how can I ask someone else?). Rationally I understand it's an honorable job and I could be helping someone else support their family. And, yet. 

 

Believe me, you get over it.

[CousinOliver]

I just caught up with my Black-ish watching and I took Diane's comments as a pure joke. There aren't too many jokes that basically accuse someone of developmental delays that are appropriate (for good reason), so this is what the writer's put in Diane's dialog.

[PRgal]

Here in Ontario, a married person can assume the spouse's last name and doesn't involve the same kind of paperwork as an "official" change.  All you have to do is show up with your marriage certificate, complete a form and it's done.  No lawyers or notary publics required.  While I changed my driver's licence and health card immediately, I didn't bother with my passport until it expired.  Didn't care that my diplomas were all under my maiden name.  I mean, I wasn't married then, right?  Who cares?  I married a little over a week before my 31st birthday.

[jhlipton]

I wasn't sure what I thought of how she pushed Junior away. One one hand I thought it was great -- she absolutely shut it down, no ambiguity. On the other, did she seem a little mean? She had such a light touch with everyone else that seeing her openly rolling her eyes at him felt uncharacteristic. 

 

It's interesting the cultural factors that go into being comfortable or not with "hired help".  I grew up in an reasonable well-off family that never even considered hiring for anything more than basic child care as needed, even though my parents could have afforded to. (They came from working class families.) My parents cooked, cleaned, sewed, gardened, roofed, plumbed, you name it. That DIY ethos really shaped me. I loathe cleaning my house, and would love to hire someone to do it for me. But I'm incredibly uncomfortable with the power dynamic, with being the "kind of person" who hires help (aka lazy / spoiled*), with asking someone to clean my floors and bathrooms (if I think it's gross, how can I ask someone else?). Rationally I understand it's an honorable job and I could be helping someone else support their family. And, yet. 

 

OTOH, A friend of mine lived in Spain for a couple of years and they got major stink-eye from the neighbors because they didn't hire a local to do their cleaning and laundry. It was expected in that area, as a way of supporting the community.

 

* I don't believe hiring people to care for your children or clean your house actually means you are lazy or spoiled. Not in the least! I say, more power to you. That's just the annoying inner guilt voice I hear.

He was sexually harassing her while she was at work. Why should she have to be nice to a guy who was objectifying her while she was just trying to do her job?

 

First of all, this goes with the general disrespect for Junior.

 

Second, this obviously should have been a "teaching moment" -- she didn't stop him from harassing other women in the future.  She should have talked to him about what he was doing and why it was wrong,  Junior is not dumb, and he generally respects people; but his hormones were getting the better of him, so I think a chat, even off-screen, would have been a good idea (and also planted the idea that men are responsible for their actions).

[mansonlamps]

No one hates name mash ups more than I do but for some reason every time I read the title of this episode in my head I say "Blanny."

[scruffy73]

I hate Raven-Symone. She sucks and I could barely stand watching any scene she was in.

[PRgal]

I hate Raven-Symone. She sucks and I could barely stand watching any scene she was in.

 

I thought she was overly annoying as a child, too.  They were trying to turn her into "black Olsen twins" (without being a twin) - not that the Olsens are any LESS annoying.

[hendersonrocks]

I was traveling and am a few episodes behind, so just saw this one and it hit close to home. I'm the oldest kid (and 12 years older than my youngest sibling) and once I got into my twenties my parents changed their legal guardian docs to me instead of their siblings. Praise jesus we never needed to actually put those plans into place, but mattered knowing that it was me.

 

I also like seeing peeks into a deeper version of Zoe, but I appreciate that it's not replacing her teenager-ishness either.

[topanga]

And speaking of Vivian....damn Regina Hall!  She looks as hot today as she did as Shondra in Malibu's Most Wanted (which was also the first movie I saw Anthony Anderson in -- I think they were cousins in that movie?) And I think that movie premiered sometime in the early 2000s.  I definitely will have what SHE is having!

I have watched Regina Hall in dozens of movies, and I hope to see her in dozens more. But because of this episode, she will always be "Black Nanny" to me. It even trumps her role in the "Scary Movie" franchise in terms of being memorable.

[lallalla]

I agree and wtf is wrong with her head ? 

This.  I don't mind her and thought she was fine for that role, but her hair, I kept looking at it and her head going, "ohmehgerd, what the french toast?"

[lallalla]

Well, I obviously missed something because no one else has mentioned it, so somebody please set me straight ---- not long after Dre's sister and her girlfriend decided that they don't care about the name as long as they can call each other "Wife," Dre's sister says something about being tired of family and not having a wedding.  

 

I did like how the father of the sister's girlfriend said something about Johnson and Willie and Peter (I think he left Dick ot of the conversation).

 

I know a guy whose whose last name is hismothersname-hisfathersname.  When he was getting married he thought his new wife should change her name to hismothersname-hisfathersname.  She told him that there was no way she was giving up her last name to take on both of his parents' last names and pointed out that if it was fine for his mother to keep her last name, then it was certainly okay for her to do it.  The ended up being Mr. hismothersname-hisfathersname, Mrs. herfathersname-hisfathersname. Their kids all go by hisfathername only, because it was easiest to spell and it goes with everything.  

 

 

Well, she could do like women used to do a few decades ago - change their middle names to the maiden names - so Jane Marie Jones, married Albert Smith, and she becomes Jane Jones Smith, with the Jones being a middle name, not part of the last name. This way, Bow could be Rainbow Johnson Johnson.  

It wasn't even that many decades ago, and I haven't kept up on what people do now, but even when I married in 2005, it was uncommon, at least in the South, to drop your maiden name and just take your husband's last name, people always assumed I was Jane Doe Johnson instead of say, Jane Marie Doe before and Jane Marie Johnson after. That was seen as a form of being very different, I was out of the ordinary.  

I don't regret the name change, but regret the marriage! As side commentary! LOL But have still kept my First Middle and Married last name, even though I"m not any more.  Seemed silly to change back to First Middle Maiden, also, I wanted to have the same last name as my children and didn't want to put them through name changes.

[BoogieBurns]

I thought she was overly annoying as a child, too.  They were trying to turn her into "black Olsen twins" (without being a twin) - not that the Olsens are any LESS annoying.

 

My entire childhood I was told I was a combination of Michelle Tanner and Olivia (from the Cosby show), in looks and personality. So, I'm just now understanding that to mean I was a super annoying child. Womp womp.

[PRgal]

My entire childhood I was told I was a combination of Michelle Tanner and Olivia (from the Cosby show), in looks and personality. So, I'm just now understanding that to mean I was a super annoying child. Womp womp.

 

I'm sorry!  Or maybe it's a good thing! :P 

[mansonlamps]

If it makes you feel any better I thought Raven was adorable. Olsen twins, not so much.

[teebax]

If it makes you feel any better I thought Raven was adorable. Olsen twins, not so much.

Ditto. I love Raven. I have nothing nice to say about the Olsens, so I won't say anything!

[coxtradamus]

I see why there are no replies.  This episode was plain stupid.  

Ooops.   Wrong episode.  Sorry.  

[CousinOliver]

Here in Ontario, a married person can assume the spouse's last name and doesn't involve the same kind of paperwork as an "official" change.  All you have to do is show up with your marriage certificate, complete a form and it's done.  No lawyers or notary publics required.  While I changed my driver's licence and health card immediately, I didn't bother with my passport until it expired.  Didn't care that my diplomas were all under my maiden name.  I mean, I wasn't married then, right?  Who cares?  I married a little over a week before my 31st birthday.

It's the same in the US.  Just paperwork with the Social Security department. No lawyers or anything like that. Changing my name, legally, was the easy part.  Changing my name on all my credit cards, bank accounts, license, health insurance, etc, etc, was the hard part because everyone wanted proof, which means I was sending my marriage certificate (in worst case scenario, although I always got it back) or faxing it everywhere (this was the mid-2000's).  None of it was hard, all of it was time consuming.  My husband died a few years back and I moved back into the condo I owned before marrying him (also married in my 30s) and I had to dig out my marriage license to get my name changed on the gate's call box system.  It's ridiculous!

 

I also didn't worry about diplomas or my passport (until expired); kept the house title the same, too. 

 

If I had it to do over again, I think I would just go by his name socially and not change it legally.  Of course, if I ever remarry (in my 40's, so it's not too late...I think...) I will probably have another set of hoops to jump through.  It's one thing to want your name, but it might be a little insulting to want the late husband's name.  ;)

Edited April 19, 2016 by CousinOliver

[charmed1]

I thought she was overly annoying as a child, too. They were trying to turn her into "black Olsen twins" (without being a twin) - not that the Olsens are any LESS annoying.

Hated her. Haaaated her. Mostly because I thought she was being brought in to replace Keshia Knight-Pulliam whom I loved. At least the Olsens were there from the series beginning.

[mansonlamps]

Well Rudy was getting older...

[BoogieBurns]

.

Edited April 19, 2016 by BoogieBurns

[Arcadiasw]

Hated her. Haaaated her. Mostly because I thought she was being brought in to replace Keshia Knight-Pulliam whom I loved. At least the Olsens were there from the series beginning.

LOL! I thought the same thing, too, about Olivia! I didn't mind the Olsen twins until the show started to completely revolve around them. Luckily, it doesn't seem Blackish will take that route with the kids.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Which last name(s) to use is something couples should discuss before getting married and be on the same page about, just like everything else. It does impact men because they're 50% of the marriage and have to live with whatever decision is made too. They should not be left out of the conversation as someone upthread suggested.

While I agree that it should be discussed before the actual wedding (as should a lot of things like how finances will be handled which is a HUGE issue with many subissues, as we've seen with Dre and Bow, but can involve even more: Will all credit card and bank accounts be held jointly? Will bills be paid 50/50 or split proportionally according to how much each person makes? How much is too much to spend on every day items like groceries, regular purchases like clothes/shoes, and large ticket items like cars or vacations?) and I also agree that each person is 50% of the marriage, I don't see how my last name impacts anyone but me. What if I decided to legally change my middle name? That also affects no one else, so no one else has to "live with whatever decision is made" any more than what I chose to eat for lunch today or what socks I decided to wear today affects anyone else.

 

A lot of times I hear the argument that it's easier if the parents have the same last name as both parents, but we live in a world with step kids, foster kids who haven't been adopted by their foster parents, kids who live with their grandparents or aunts/uncles, and many other situations where not everyone in a nuclear family living under the same roof has the same last name and they all manage to deal with it. What if Zoe hadn't stepped up to be the guardian of her siblings in the event that something happens to Bow and Dre? If they had ended up living with Bow's mother and Alicia hadn't changed her last name when she got married to Bow's father? Would all the kids change their last name to Alicia's maiden name just because they were living with her and she was their legal guardian? Wouldn't that be the easiest thing for everyone so that the teachers wouldn't have to remember that the woman coming to parent-teacher conferences had a different last name?

 

Again, I have no issue if people want to change their last names but I don't think that anyone should HAVE to, least of all to make things easier for other people.

[TeeVeeStevie]

I don't see how my last name impacts anyone but me. What if I decided to legally change my middle name? That also affects no one else, so no one else has to "live with whatever decision is made" any more than what I chose to eat for lunch today or what socks I decided to wear today affects anyone else.

What if your husband decided to change his name to something you didn't care for, and you had to hear it spoken, see it written and use it yourself everyday? What if he wanted to wear sweatpants to your special anniversary dinner? Or what if he went out and did this to himself? None of those things would affect anyone but him, right?

[topanga]

This week's "Jenifer Lewis is my mother" moment - how she says the word 'lesbians.'  (My mom is Haitian so with her accent...yup.  the same.)

 

Diane's "Does this feel right to you?!"  will never fail to make me smile.

 

 

This.  After her raging about it which had me in stitches, I was waiting for Earl to pop up and interject.  Was sad that he didn't.

Jennifer Lewis is gold. I'd watch this episode over and over to hear her ask if they thought she kept Earl's name to honor that idiot. I don't know how she managed to mumble "idiot" under her breath and yell it at the same time. But it totally worked. 

 

--And "The lesbians are coming." "The homosexuals are here." Ruby had no idea how uncomfortable and weird she sounded. 

 

And I'm now convinced that Diane is a small Ruby. With slightly more progressive values. 

 

 

The flashbacks are great too - Dre's De La Soul hair and name and the Meshell Ndegeocello (yep, had to look that spelling up!) shout out...ah the memories, the late 80s and early 90s were a magical time LOL!

I really did go to college with guys like Dre. They both annoyed me and cracked me up.

Edited April 20, 2016 by topanga

[roseslg]

Ruby was on fire this episode.  I loved Junior's outfits.  I love that he goes balls to the wall with everything he tries to do- reffing, dressing.   Do you Junior, do you!

 

About the last name, I didn't take my husband's last name.  Even when I was 5, I was all about not taking anyone's name.  In any case, we now have a 7 month old.  Before we knew the gender we decided that if it was a girl, she'd have my last name, if it was a boy, he'd have his last name.  Once we found out it was a girl, he wanted her to have his last name (as the first born).  I was like nope, we had a deal.  There was a lot of back and forth and although neither of us wanted to do it, we ended up hyphenating her name (my name last).  We'll be flying to see his grandparents who are in their 90s and when they saw the itinerary we forwarded, our daughter's last name only showed my last name.  They were up in arms about it for a bit.  

[Black Knight]

I have a hard-to-pronounce last name that also routinely gets misspelled, so when I was younger I always thought that I would gladly change my name (assuming my spouse's name was simpler), but now...I kind of like that my name stands out.

 

One approach I haven't seen anyone mention yet is that some couples mash their two last names, or part of their two last names, together into a brand-new last name. (Example: One of LA's mayors, Antonio Villar, married Corina Raigosa and they adopted the last name Villaraigosa.)

 

I would have loved to have seen Bow explaining a Rainbow Johnson name change to a bored clerk.

[topanga]

I have a hard-to-pronounce last name that also routinely gets misspelled, so when I was younger I always thought that I would gladly change my name (assuming my spouse's name was simpler), but now...I kind of like that my name stands out.

 

One approach I haven't seen anyone mention yet is that some couples mash their two last names, or part of their two last names, together into a brand-new last name. (Example: One of LA's mayors, Antonio Villar, married Corina Raigosa and they adopted the last name Villaraigosa.)

 

I would have loved to have seen Bow explaining a Rainbow Johnson name change to a bored clerk.

The thing is, Rainbow could have lied and told Dre that she did change her name from Rainbow Johnson to Rainbow Johnson, and he would've believed her. He's such a man child. But it would have bothered Rainbow because it goes against her feminist principals. 

[sinkwriter]

I was kind of hoping for more Ruby in this episode. When I read the synopsis of the ep before watching it, the description said "Junior and Zoey prep Ruby to embrace her daughter's relationship," so I was expecting more scenes of just Junior, Zoey and Ruby. I wasn't expecting the daughter and her fiancé to show up until maybe near the end. I thought it was going to be about the two kids teaching Grandma how to be more accepting. I mean, there had to be some lessons learned between the time of her melodramatic "NOOOOOOO, NOT MY DAUGHTER!" reaction and the much calmer "Do they like Triscuits?" response. I thought it would be funny to see Junior and Zoey teaching her how to see her daughter in a more accepting and understanding viewpoint. I could only imagine the lessons they'd cook up to get through to Ruby. Sadly, the daughter showed up almost right away and instead it was just jokes about "the homosexuals are here!" and telling the fiancé to call her Mrs. Ruby Johnson.

[kia112]

Sadly, the daughter showed up almost right away and instead it was just jokes about "the homosexuals are here!" and telling the fiancé to call her Mrs. Ruby Johnson.

 

Oh my gosh. Jenifer Lewis was masterful when she struggled to tell finacee what she should call her. The fact that she was trying at all to be more intimate showed great strides in and of itself, but she just wasn't there yet. Finally settling on Mrs. Johnson was both a win and a loss for her, she knew it and it showed on her face and in her tone.

[Noirprncess]

Ugh.  I liked parts of this -- mostly Junior's last outfit. Those pants!  That day-glo purple cravat!

 

 Also, i love that Mary J. Blige song like fire, but can't help giggling at the absurdity of the lyrics "Don't need no hateration, holleration in this dancery..."    It is right up there with "Oye Come Va...something...something..." LOL.

Oye Comb Ova...?. Lol

[possibilities]

Autostraddle gave this episode a rave review:

http://www.autostraddle.com/boobs-on-your-tube-root-and-shaw-are-getting-ready-to-rip-each-others-clothes-off-336281/

 

I think the more you've lived it, the more you love what the show did here. I know I was busting apart over the saltines business.

 

I think in Iceland they have girls take the mother's name and boys take the father's name (and both spouses keep their own). There are lots of ways to solve the name/family continuity puzzle, probably more than have been considered in most cases.

[peeayebee]

I liked it a lot Is there an ep tonight?

[OnceSane]

Dre has always felt his older son was never like him, but when he finally meets Junior's cool friends, Dre is all in and happy that his son may have the opportunity for an actual social life.  Meanwhile, Bow is dealing with Ruby, Zoey, Jack and Diane not confessing to things breaking around the house and decides to handle it her own way after some judgment from Vivian.

[Mrs OldManBalls]

Is it true?

Spoiler

Is Charlie back? 

[Jobena]

Charlie's back.

[ExplainItAgain]

Yeah, Charlie!! He was missed!!

[GHScorpiosRule]

POPS!!!! And Charlie!!!!!!!

The flashbacks and Pops were the only thing I enjoyed last night.  Oh and the look of anger Dre gave the kids as he was calling them thieves.

I noticed that Jenifer Lewis is now part of the cast, and no longer a guest star.

[TiffanyNichelle]

Loved seeing Charlie come back at the end. Never go away again Charlie. Now to bring back the Charlie/Diane feud. What ever happened to Black Nanny though?

I thought this was a pretty good episode. Dre did not bother me and Bow was actually good at her auction despite being sabotaged. Dre's speech at the end really hit me strongly. There is that pressure to be better and the Cosby Show was a huge part of my life growing up.

My family also gets happy when we realize it wasn't someone black who did something awful. The crossed fingers thing was funny as hell.

Ruby continues to be the worst but at least Pops was back.

[fishcakes]

Charlie! I love that the very first thing he did was take the cake back to his office with him.

I like that they addressed the Cosby scandal. It's been one of the worst kept and most ignored secrets in Hollywood for years (I read about it five or six years ago in a People magazine article and couldn't understand why there was no uproar immediately after), and since then I haven't been able to watch or listen to Bill Cosby in anything. Having Dre talk about how he aspired to be Cliff Huxtable (and the mostly unspoken part about how now it's ruined for him) was a good take on it, I thought.

Stevens's personal life is ... disturbing.

Edited April 28, 2016 by fishcakes

[sarkygal]

I thought it was one of the stronger episodes to date. Dre wasn't whiny, all the characters were used well and some really funny lines. I loved how they addressed the Cosby tarnish and I could relate to every fear Bow & Dre articulated.

Yay Charlie!

[Mrs OldManBalls]

24 minutes ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

Loved seeing Charlie come back at the end. Never go away again Charlie. Now to bring back the Charlie/Diane feud. What ever happened to Black Nanny though?

I was mostly asleep when my kids burst into the room yelling "Charlie is back!" It obviously made their night. 

[monakane]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

POPS!!!! And Charlie!!!!!!!

The flashbacks and Pops were the only thing I enjoyed last night.  Oh and the look of anger Dre gave the kids as he was calling them thieves.

I noticed that Jenifer Lewis is now part of the cast, and no longer a guest star.

I thought the episode gave AA a chance to show his acting chops, especially the scene with the kids.  It was well done.  I could feel and understand his anger. I loved him in the Shield.  He knows how to bring the menace.  I like the show better when they Dre isn't too over the top.

And yes to Pops and Charlie!!!

2 minutes ago, monakane said:

 

Edited April 28, 2016 by monakane

[Happytobehere]

Glad to see the return of Pops and Charlie.  I wonder if Charlie's return means that Wanda Sykes' character is gone.  Is Charlie's return permanent, does that mean that TBS he left to do got cancelled?

The best moment to me was Dre's fury at his thieving kids.  I have a real problem with Ruby introducing them to such behavior.  That smacks more of the show looking for her character to do more outrageous things, no matter how out of character those things are?

As for the Cosby stuff, I get it and it is still hurtful, but I like how it was addressed because no one is really dealing with the issue of how Cosby wouldn't be such a big deal if this country wasn't so racist.  Think about it, there was basically one show with a predominantly black cast and even then, there was usually a white guest star to make the show palatable to white America.  So when people talk about the real Cosby without dealing with the import and impact of the Cosby Show, all I see is the continuing evidence of the racial stratification of this society.  This leads so perfectly into the crossing your fingers hoping that the criminal is not black, so, bravo show for going there.

[Dee]

I lost it at the family finger crossing scene & Zoey smoothing down her edges before charming the parents.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Dee

[Iamsweetdee]

1 hour ago, Happytobehere said:

Glad to see the return of Pops and Charlie.  I wonder if Charlie's return means that Wanda Sykes' character is gone.  Is Charlie's return permanent, does that mean that TBS he left to do got cancelled?

Angie Tribeca, which is a great show, was given a second season before the first one aired.  It's just finished filming it's second season.  As there are only 3 or so episodes to Black-ish left this season, I guess it could be seen as permanent. 

[DearEvette]

Not a super laugh out loud funny episode -- although Junior's Dothraki line and Dre trying to pronounce "rural" did make me laugh -- but I still liked it because it used a very light, deft touch with the theme it presented.  Namely: how much pressure there is on black folk who do well to represent for all the rest of the black folk.  One the one hand "we are not a monolith" but on the other we are crucially aware when one does well it feels like one more tiny rung climb up a really long ladder on behalf of everybody, but when one falters, it feels like a slip right back down to the beginning.  Irrational.  But there you go.  Using Cosby as an example is perfect.

I did love the fingers crossing scene, because I can't lie, I've mumbled out the "please don't be black" prayer once or twice while watching the news.

I will say I was super pissed at Ruby.  I have generally liked her abrasiveness.  She is salty but she never crossed the line.  But that was condoning outright thievery and I hate that it was just hand-waved away.  The kids only got yelled at?  Yeah I actively disliked her here.

[monakane]

I laughed out loud at Junior speaking Dothraki.