After Paradise

[jumper sage]

If Ashley is the next Bachelorette, I am going to lose it.  Right here on this board.

[Wandering Snark]

I'm just wondering in general the timing on their announcement. Wait a week and use it as part of the finale... "and don't forget to stay tuned as directly following we'll announce who will be the next Bachelor!" would be a hell of a lot bigger draw I'd think. And doing it this way partially shoots them in the foot as we all know now how things ended (or will eventually end) with Nick and Jen. Odd decision.

[Andromeda]

2 hours ago, GracieK said:

I've always said that even though she irritates me, I somewhat like Ashley, and Caila has come off fake and superficial.  Now, however, I'm super annoyed with both Ashley and Jared.  While it makes a little more sense that it wasn't only Ashley "warning" Jared about Caila, the whole thing about not liking her and playing coy about the things that weren't shown that make her unlikeable is a dirty trick.  Just fucking be direct about what is supposedly so bad about her or STFU.  It's a game that puts Caila in the position of not even being able to defend herself against direct accusations while leaving the audience to use their imagination and fill in the blanks about what must make her so horrible.  GROW UP, ASHLEY.  And she has been treated way too fairly by both Jared and Caila who chose to discuss her and her behavior delicately rather than just come right out and call her on her bullshit.  

It's absolute mean-girl behavior.

And apparently some of the people there thought they needed to "warn Jared" that Caila might not be as into him as he was into her. So what? Who says both people have to move at the same pace? That doesn't mean Caila was being devious! God, I hate Ashley. I used to find her entertaining, but her superior attitude on the After show just made me want to punch her in the nose. And Jared is really an idiot. He was supposedly surprised to learn in Paradise that Ashley was still hung up on him after he dumped her in February (oh, they "had a talk" after kissing.) Whatever, Jared. You're clearly not communicating to her, and the guests tonight (and Shawn) are dead on. You might as well marry Ashley.

ETA: I clapped when Nick came out! So much for that teaser that showed him picking out a ring (or saying hi to Neil Lane, maybe that's all he was doing). He'll make a great Bachelor!! (I never thought I'd say that...). Now I kinda want to rewatch his previous seasons.

I bet Josh hates learning about that!

Edited August 31, 2016 by Andromeda

[PetuniaP]

Hallelujah, praise the Lord...Nick is the new Bachelor! I nearly fell off my couch when he walked out. I have to admit, for the first time in 14 years, I contemplated not watching a season if Luke had been chosen. I just couldn't bear the idea of that snoozefest. But NICK! As my friend says, I'm a #TeamNick OG and I could not be more thrilled. I would actually audition to get a crack at him (theoretically).

I have no idea what Jared is thinking. That is one fucked up dynamic he has going on with Ashley. I'm incredibly curious to see which of them ends up breaking it. Whatever the case, all ties will have to be cut for good....these two are not destined to stay friends through any real relationships. 

[alexa]

I am with the majority here, I was totally surprised by the announcement, and I was very happy about it.  I have always liked Nick, and never could figure out why Andi chose fake Josh over Nick, but it is better for him anyway that he wasn't chosen.  

Jared annoyed me the most on the after show.... Ashley will always be annoying, but Jared is a loser, officially.  The way he sat there and tried to sell their friendship and couldn't see how toxic it is, or relate to anyone else on that set spoke volumes.  He will never find a long term relationship with that going on.  I thought Caila handled it well and spoke to the situation politely while telling us all basically what happened.  Have fun with your life with Ashley, Jared!

[FamilyVan]

Quote

After tonight, I hope Caila takes herself far from this incestuous nest of pit vipers. Bucket of tears was still throwing shade, and Jared the wimp just sat there. 

That whole scene was unbelievable.   Jared: I really wish you and Ashley the best.  

Quote

Caila looked annoyed at having to deal with Ashley again. Honestly it does seem like no one likes Caila. Is there something we aren't being shown on tv?

 

I do not understand the Calia hate either.  People think she is fake?  Because she seems happy and smiles?  Sometimes people are actually happy carefree people.  I am like this myself so I don't see it as fake at all.  Ashley, otoh, is nasty and evil.  Calling Shushanna a Russian prostitute?  Ashley has a truly ugly personality, it is hard to get past.

I am totally over this entire thing with Jared.  He wants Ashley in his life and has chosen her as his life partner.  He proved Ashley right, she is his main chick, everyone else ranks lower.

When did BIP actually film?  According to RS it filmed June 8-26.  Then Caila said her and Jared dated for 6 weeks, that brings us to roughly the last week of July/1st week of August.  News that Jared and Ashley went on that trip to St Lucia with Jade & Tanner broke the weekend of July 23/24.  Hmmmm.

Edited August 31, 2016 by FamilyVan

[MsPH]

I cannot believe TPTB had the balls to make Nick the Bachelor! I was already resigned to skipping a season because Luke is just Zzzzzzzz to me, and now this! I could not be more thrilled. A lead who's capable of real discussions and original thought? How did we get so lucky?? Hope they don't set him up to fail for the 3rd time.

Jared disappointed me so badly. Either something did happen off camera or he's simply an a-hole. I remember him being really nice to Kaitlyn after she dumped him and Ashley too after BIP2, yet he seemed unwilling to say anything nice about Caila. Instead he spent the whole time defending his relationship with Ashley. I suspect that during those "difficult conversations in NYC" Caila may have given him an ultimatum of sorts, "me or Ashley". Then Jared told Ashley about it, she threw a fit as usual and convinced him Caila is a horrible person for trying to breakup their friendship and Jared chose Ashley. If that's the case I don't blame Caila one bit, since someone needs to put an end to the toxic relationship that's ruining any chances Jared has of finding love. I just don't get why he treats Ashley like a girlfriend while not wanting her to be one. No wonder she's confused. I would be too if I was in love with a friend who acts like he loves me and puts me in front of anyone else while at the same time claiming it's platonic. What a freakshow.

[adhoc]

FamilyVan, Makes you me of wonder if the lure of being able to remain in the D-list-celebrity spotlight (and potentially generating some income from it) plays any role at all in Jared and Ashley continuing to spend time together, taking the trip, etc.  Eh, whatever. I'll guess I'll never get Jared's appeal. 

Regarding Nick: I wonder if TPTB had their doubts about how Luke (and maybe even Chase) was coming along in preparation for potentially being the bachelor. Or maybe Luke got himself a girlfriend, or lots of gigs lined up for the year already, or both, and did not really want to commit to being the TB.  Whatever, like the case of choosing JoJo over Caila, I can't help wondering if something behind the scenes made Nick start looking like a viable and maybe better alternative. 

I'm kind of glad; as I posted weeks ago, I thought being the bachelor might change Luke--who seemed like a pleasant enough person--and not necessarily for the better. 

[Pixel]

7 minutes ago, adhoc said:

Regarding Nick: I wonder if TPTB had their doubts about how Luke (and maybe even Chase) was coming along in preparation for potentially being the bachelor. Or maybe Luke got himself a girlfriend, or lots of gigs lined up for the year already, or both, and did not really want to commit to being the TB.  Whatever, like the case of choosing JoJo over Caila, I can't help wondering if something behind the scenes made Nick start looking like a viable and maybe better alternative. 

I'm kind of glad; as I posted weeks ago, I thought being the bachelor might change Luke--who seemed like a pleasant enough person--and not necessarily for the better. 

Well, I was actually wondering all along if it might be Nick, because this season of BIP certainly seems to be very much about rehabbing whatever negative image people might have of him. I was not a huge Nick fan before, but now I am.  I started to like him when he was on Kaitlyn's season, because he was so much better than the douchebag she chose in the end, but BIP this season kind of confirmed for me that he's a good guy.  Which - I'm totally aware is all production manipulation, just like his previous image was, but I'm still ok with going along for the ride.

[betha]

8 hours ago, SassyCat said:

I hope everyone noticed that Jared said that he and Ashley decided not to talk anymore at some point recently. Then, when asked how they became friends again, he said that he texted her because he hadn't heard from her for a couple months. What?? What is wrong with him? He texted her?? Do you see what I'm saying about him leading Ashley on? He loves that she's completely psycho for him.

Caila said that when they were dating, friends would call him and he'd always answer. When you have a girlfriend, you don't keep taking calls from an ex-girlfriend who's trying to sabotage your relationship. Jared is pathetic. He makes excuses for Ashley's behavior right in front of Caila. 

Oh yes. Jared and Ashley are made for each other. I hope he doesn't expect to ever be able to have a girlfriend with behavior like this. Poor Caila. And it's par for the course with After Paradise but how awful was it that first they made her watch a video of how upset she was; then they brought out Jared, and then they brought out Ashley. I have to give Caila credit for putting on a brave face throughout.

Also: YAY NICK!!!! Finally a bachelor I find interesting! I don't always love him (he comes across sometimes pretty egotistical and defensive in interviews) but I always find him intriguing and attractive- I can't wait to see his season and I'm rooting for him. I think producers have wanted him to be Bachelor for a while. remember when they teased us about it before bringing Ben out last year? I absolutely believe BiP this year was an intentional move to rehab Nick. It may even have been why they brought Josh in - to make Nick look better in comparison. I feel really bad for Jen though who appears to have been genuinely interested in him and may have been pushed aside. I hope that he didn't lead her on.

[Dirtybubble]

Quote

Also: YAY NICK!!!! Finally a bachelor I find interesting!

WhooHoo!  I am over the moon!  I was thinking it would be that dullard Luke as well.  I've always like Nick (on Andi's season and Katlyn season) so this is just great news for me!  Yiipee!  BUT this does kinda spoil the outcome for next week doesn't it?  I mean if we know that Nick is the the Bachelor then we know that things don't work out (he doesn't become engaged) to Jen which is a shame because I kinda liked her as well. 

[Alapaki]

Well, I called it last week (at least to the 3 other shlubs sitting around the beach house wasting our vacation time watching this show).

In retrospect I think this season was clearly one long screen-test for Nick and Jared.  Jared proved to be just dull and also irritatingly blind to Ashley I.'s assholishness at the same time.  I think the last thing TPTB want is another dull Bachelor after Ben and Chris.  Nick played it like the elder-statesman-type (much like Graham played in the first couple of season).  And he also got a fairly ham-fisted redemption edit.

I think the theme of his season will quite obviously be "after Nick's heart's been broken so many times . . . . . "  

The good news: 1) while having Chad as Bachelor was always an extremely dubious proposition, I'm relieved the coffin's been nailed shut on that; and 2) Nick knows how to play the game, and he's obviously willing to give TPTB what they want.  And, as others have mentioned, there are going to be loony-tune women lining up to try to "fix/rescue/love" him that TPTB will have their pick of the crazee.  So it should be an entertaining season.

OTOH, I find it remarkable to see how Ashley I. has transmogrified herself from someone who was probably a fairly decent (if naive and a bit obnoxious about still having her cherry) young lady during Chris' season, to a full-fledged famewhore, over-the-top-villian, "whatever you say Mr. Fleiss, just keep the fame-clock stopped at 14 minutes, 59 seconds" caricature of a person.

She's sold her soul to something that's going to leave her on the side of the road very, very soon, and she'll have nothing left but the mockery, and whatever chump-change gets thrown her way to "host" something at whatever casinos are still standing in Atlantic City.

[Mu Shu]

Maybe Ashley will find her prospects so dim that she will have to move to Russia and become a hooker.   It could happen.

i don't know why, but her pulling out a piece of ratty looking clip on hair from her make up case grossed me out as much as Evans lizard tongue.   She may be pretty, but there is something very repellent about her.  

[FamilyVan]

Quote

Makes you me of wonder if the lure of being able to remain in the D-list-celebrity spotlight (and potentially generating some income from it) plays any role at all in Jared and Ashley continuing to spend time together, taking the trip, etc.  Eh, whatever. I'll guess I'll never get Jared's appeal. 

I have lost all respect for Jared (such as it was LOL).  Caila was very cryptic about what the reason was things did not last, but given the way Jared defended Ashley, I think it's pretty obvious.  It is unbelievable that even after watching this all back he does not cut Ashley off.  

 

Re: Nick - I think this was a good choice.  Sometimes there is no one that really jumps out as a fan favorite enough to be the next Bachelor/Bachelorette, but TPTB had to pick someone from the final 4-5.  I think we saw this with Kailtlyn and her season ended up a flop. So for them to go all wild card and pick someone from a couple seasons back is a good idea.  Also Nick is older, so it will be a different vibe hopefully if they give him women in his age range.

[Madding crowd]

36 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

n retrospect I think this season was clearly one long screen-test for Nick and Jared.  Jared proved to be just dull and also irritatingly blind to Ashley I.'s assholishness at the same time.  I think the last thing TPTB want is another dull Bachelor after Ben and Chris.  Nick played it like the elder-statesman-type (much like Graham played in the first couple of season).  And he also got a fairly ham-fisted redemption edit.

 

I agree 100% that BIP was a test to see if Nick or Jared would make a good bachelor. Jared would be rating's gold with him trying to pursue 25 women with Ashley hanging on his leg. However, Jared is dull, snaggle toothed and a total wimp, who cares more about having Ashely chase him then actually finding love. I don't hate Nick but I don't think he is genuine in any way. He made no effort to actually find love on any of the Bachelor shows he has been on. I believe he has been laser focused on the Bachelor role since day one. If he wanted to pursue something, he could have tried with Jen who obviously really liked him. I also don't find him attractive. I always watch the Bachelor and still will, but I actually think Luke would have been a better choice. I didn't find Luke attractive either, but since he has not been on TV 20 times (exaggeration), it would be at least semi-new. 

[Wings]

Count me in as one who has always liked Nick and thrilled at this news.  I hope production worked/is working hard at finding smart, interesting, age appropriate women for him.  We deserve a good season and so does Nick!

Michele is a good host; I didn't think so at first.  Being a fan she is on top of the details.  Caila was about to lapse into a cliche answer, Michele stopped her and said, be honest.  It worked she got a genuine response from her.  Sean was good, too.  I cannot stand him but he was direct with calling out Jared for leading Ashley on.   Jared is one pathetic guy.  

Should Jared actually find someone willing to date him, I don't think Ashley is going to boil his pets but she is close to that line.  Very disturbing woman.  

[truthaboutluv]

12 hours ago, TomGirl said:

I was thinking that Caila and Wells looked kinda cute sitting together.......

Good, so it wasn't just me. They made a pretty striking pair I thought. Personally, I think the best thing that came out of the episode was that it confirmed what many have been saying and suspected. That while yes, Ashley is nuts, Jared plays into her delusions by not growing a freaking pair and just cutting off the relationship. The whole thing is just kind of creepy and annoying. He insists he just sees her as a friend, yet knows she's in love with him and acts like a possessive nut over him and his answer to that is to continue to have an almost unhealthy close friendship with her. Personally I've never seen the fuss over Jared so frankly at this point I say both Caila and Ashley can do better. 

[saber5055]

SO excited about Nick being TB. Except now I have to keep watching this show. But for the first time, I'm actually looking forward to it. Team Nick! And Mu Shu, your line about Ashley becoming a Russian prostitute totally cracked me up. So, thanks!

[Nowhere]

I really hope they choose women age 30 or older. I can deal with 28 but younger than that will make me wonder if Nick is doing this for the right reasons. 

[TomGirl]

Sometimes I wonder if Jared is really all that interested in women......

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

He made no effort to actually find love on any of the Bachelor shows he has been on. I believe he has been laser focused on the Bachelor role since day one.

YMMV but I disagree. I absolutely believe that Nick fell hard for Andi. With this franchise and the limited amount of time these people spend together, I don't know that I would call it love but he was really into her. I know the guys during the season accused Nick of wanting to be the Bachelor but to me that was Farmer Chris who did and said all the right things. 

If Nick was only concerned with being the Bachelor lead, he would have played that Andi season way differently because whatever he is, he is not stupid. But instead he did everything that you shouldn't do - he was aggressive and unapologetic in his pursuit of her, which made him the convenient scapegoat villain of the season and then the ultimate was the ATFR question that branded him classless and evil by many fans of the show. Whatever hope he had of being the lead, that one moment on the ATFR sank it (even if I personally saw nothing wrong with what he did and still don't). 

And then after the season he quietly went back to his life in Chicago. Now that said, much as I like Nick, I will say that once he came back on the show for Kaitlyn's season, things were different. I said it during that season that I never believed Nick was in love with Kaitlyn. I think they had good sexual chemistry and once the sex happened, he probably realized that was all it was. But he stuck around yes maybe in hopes of becoming the lead. I don't have any doubts that Nick is as much of a famewhore now as all the others on these shows but I disagree that he never made an effort to find love because I do think he really and truly was into Andi and genuinely blindsided by her not picking him.

Hell all the proof you need for that is the plane video which has fully been confirmed was 100% real, as in he really did not know he was being filmed. If Nick was solely interested in the Bachelor role, I doubt he would have sounded so upset and hurt about Andi's not picking him. 

[reggiejax]

15 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

Compared to past Bachelors like Chris (the farmer) Nick at least has a personality.

Compared to Bachelors like Chris (or Ben Flajnik, or Sean Lowe, or Jason Mesnick, etc, etc), rocks have a personality. The bar isn't exactly set high.

It sounds like I am down on Nick, but I really am not. But I cannot pretend to be excited either. But that is how I usually am with the leads on this show. I care more about the contestants. I will judge his season based on the women they bring in. Nick is The Bachelor, good for him. But they could have brought back Blob Guiney for all I care about the Bachelor himself.  

[Alapaki]

I still think Nick is a wimpy Leprechaun.  But I think when it comes to female contestants, he's catnip for the crazy.  

My biggest fear is that TPTB take this opportunity to shart Andi on us again.  

[Wings]

I wonder what happened when the cameras stopped.  It is pretty typical for bach people to gather for a drink after something like this.  You know none of them wanted to have Ashley or Jared be part of that.  I bet it was awkward.   They were all staying in the same hotel so I assume many calls back and forth to meet in the lobby and get to some place else quickly!   I wonder if Michele, Paul and the other guy joined them.   Or did this happen at all?  :^)

I think Caila is too contained for Wells so I don't see that happening.

Edited August 31, 2016 by wings707

[Ms Blue Jay]

16 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

 I just squealed and woke up my dog.

NICK!! I wish I'd auditioned for this season. I sincerely, genuinely want him to find love. I'm too invested. I hope he gets a bevy of beautiful, intelligent, and age-appropriate women to choose from. 

Sweet Jesus, you heard my prayers. Best, most complete redemption arc ever. Thank you, Fleiss and Harrison. I'm all in for January.

You still can!!  According to Elan!

[huahaha]

40 minutes ago, reggiejax said:

But they could have brought back Blob Guiney for all I care about the Bachelor himself.  

Let's not say hasty things and tempt the bachelor gods.

[PetuniaP]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

I don't have any doubts that Nick is as much of a famewhore now as all the others on these shows but I disagree that he never made an effort to find love because I do think he really and truly was into Andi and genuinely blindsided by her not picking him.

 

THIS. Nick fell like a ton of bricks for Andi. And I think he was genuinely heartbroken when she didn't choose him. I've made my peace with all of these people being famewhores so that doesn't bother me about Nick. 

[Wings]

24 minutes ago, PetuniaP said:

THIS. Nick fell like a ton of bricks for Andi. And I think he was genuinely heartbroken when she didn't choose him. I've made my peace with all of these people being famewhores so that doesn't bother me about Nick. 

I agree.  You have to want some kind of fame to even apply for any reality show.  Fame seekers fall in love like everyone else.  Sometimes you have no control over that. 

Edited August 31, 2016 by wings707

[Ketzel]

13 hours ago, Nowhere said:

I hope everyone noticed that Jared said that he and Ashley decided not to talk anymore at some point recently. Then, when asked how they became friends again, he said that he texted her because he hadn't heard from her for a couple months. What?? What is wrong with him? He texted her?? Do you see what I'm saying about him leading Ashley on? He loves that she's completely psycho for him.

Caila said that when they were dating, friends would call him and he'd always answer. When you have a girlfriend, you don't keep taking calls from an ex-girlfriend who's trying to sabotage your relationship. Jared is pathetic. He makes excuses for Ashley's behavior right in front of Caila. 

 

1 hour ago, TomGirl said:

Sometimes I wonder if Jared is really all that interested in women......

I have gotten a sort of asexual vibe from Jared in the past. If he leans that way, and still wants to hang in the Bachelorverse, then Ashley is the perfect foil for him. She gives him a storyline and she does whatever the female equivalent of cock-blocking is, whenever another woman tries to get too close to him. Surely by now (especially if he's watched the BIP episodes) he knows that Ashley is obsessively in love with him, ready, willing and able to wreck any other relationship he might feel the need to appear to pursue, and perfectly happy to hang on even if he refuses to be sexually intimate with her, as long as he occasionally tosses her a crumb of physical contact. [And that whole "I am a pure virgin" thing she's so hung up on, even while hanging out in STD central makes me wonder if she's also just as happy to avoid intercourse for whatever reason.]  In some really odd way, they do seem like the perfect match.  So I wonder if  the only reason he doesn't just give in to the whole thing is that he doesn't want to have a real physical relationship with her, and he knows/fears she would want to at least try if he were ever to agree to be her "official" boyfriend.

*Ketzel reaches for the brain bleach because she cannot believe she actually spent moments of her life thinking this through.*

[Kbilly]

Quote

I was thinking that Caila and Wells looked kinda cute sitting together.......

Me too and I noticed at the ending when everyone was congratulating Nick they were standing off on one side together and I thought "YAY!" but they were probably trying to stay as far away from the psychopath in the pigtails and choker.

Jared is gutless and I hope he enjoys his clinger for life. I REALLY wanted to hear what made Caila so horrible.

Nick will be entertaining--he seems a little more sexy and flirty than past Bachelors. He's going to be 35-36 for filming, if they cast 23-25 year olds I won't be happy.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Kbilly

[SuzE]

4 hours ago, FamilyVan said:

I have lost all respect for Jared (such as it was LOL).  Caila was very cryptic about what the reason was things did not last, but given the way Jared defended Ashley, I think it's pretty obvious.  It is unbelievable that even after watching this all back he does not cut Ashley off.  

Yes. I used to date a guy who was a lot like Jared. Nice, nice guy. So very proud of how nice he was. So nice that he couldn't quite cut off his ex who was still in love with him. Ruined our relationship and (I'm ashamed to say) kind of turned me into a shrew. How long was I supposed to put up with this ex hanging around? When our relationship ran it's course, he wanted to keep me around as a friend. Then it dawned on me that he uses his ex to prevent any new relationship from getting too close. And polishes up his cherished 'nice guy' reputation.

So while I do think that Ashley is crazy, I think Jared is using her. They fit together. Good for Caila for seeing through him and getting out.

[huahaha]

14 hours ago, TomGirl said:

I was thinking that Caila and Wells looked kinda cute sitting together.......

They had great chemistry. He was laughing at all of her subtle jokes and nodding along to the things she said. Wells was one of the guys I thought had been picked expressly for Caila on JoJo's season. I'd have sent Ashley and Jared home and let Caila and Wells have a chance, for sure.

[FamilyVan]

I live in Jared's area and after he was on BIP last year he did an interview with a local magazine.  He mentioned that Caila was a person that he would eventually like to meet.  This was from a year ago.  Kind of lame that he did meet her, and they hit it off, and he let Ashley get in the way of it.  Guarantee all those "difficult conversations" that he and Caila had were revolving around Ashley.  Look at the group photo above - Jared and Ashley right next to each other and Caila, somewhere else. 

Honestly Jared seems to me like a guy who just wants to remain single.  He works in the restaurant industry which is kind of like a party lifestyle atmosphere, it's not really about being settled down.  I am sure at the end of the night he likes having someone to text (Ashley) but she's not really around, and that's about it for him.

[Padma]

You could tell Ashley had put a lot of thought into how to rehab her image. Unfortunately, she seemed extremely fake. And when she apologized profusely to Jared, you could see it just reinforced the dynamic between them "You're so great!" "Thank you. I think you're fine (and LOVE having this adulation!")  With all that thought about it, she STILL didn't think of apologizing to Caila!  You could feel the resentment.  I appreciated Sean speaking up on Caila's behalf--good job, Sean--but Ashley still was all mean-girl in casting shade at her (with no examples given) and then, with gritted teeth, admitting her language wasn't nice. It did not feel like an apology to me. Caila was gracious to stay silent. (And Jared was his usual self in not standing up for her--and talking about how "half a dozen" others warned him she might not feel as much for him. I bet that (1) never happened at all, it's just his defense of Ashley and (2) if he had some spine, it wouldn't have mattered. She really liked him and was interested, which was all she had told him and all he needed to know. The shade-casting from him, too, was jerky. I'm shipping Caila and Wells, too.

I am normally not a fan of Sean  Lowe, but I admit to liking him here. Michelle's working too, as a fan who brings a lot of energy. Sometimes her humor goes off the rails (the dead dog sequence--not good) but usually brings a good humor and, as a comedienne, takes chances that Harrison would never do. She  brings that "Andy Cohen" quality to the show (but not as stupid) that I think the producers were hoping for--kind of silly, like a party, kind of fun.

Nick, smarter and seemingly nicer than most recent bachelors, should be fun.  (I hope all that shyness in the interview, the downcast eyes, etc. was genuine, not put on. Don't go all fake on us now, Nick!)

[Artsda]

Quote

 Caila was very cryptic about what the reason was things did not last, but given the way Jared defended Ashley, I think it's pretty obvious.  It is unbelievable that even after watching this all back he does not cut Ashley off.

 

He went from BIP to St.Lucia with her a few weeks after so I wonder how much of an attempt he even put into this relationship with Caila if he wasn't willing to cut Ashley off. Instead he was vacationing with her.

[FamilyVan]

Quote

He went from BIP to St.Lucia with her a few weeks after so I wonder how much of an attempt he even put into this relationship with Caila if he wasn't willing to cut Ashley off. Instead he was vacationing with her.

Yes- there is no way that Calia would be dating him and be OK with him doing that.  I wonder if the difficult conversations were him saying he has this opportunity to go to St Lucia but Ashley is going, and her saying no way.  The timing of it works out to when their relationship ended.

Even if Caila did like him less (subjective thing to try to measure), she WAS genuinely interested in him, I mean people don't date someone for 6 weeks that they do not like.  I really don't know why her interest level was not good enough, because she was not a crying hysterical mess?  Is that his benchmark for admiration?  At one point Ashley said to him "She doesn't like you" - uhhh what?  I don't even know why I care this much!  Ugh this show!  Jared, you chose Ashley to be your life partner.

[FamilyVan]

The premise of the show is to lead people on.  Honestly, I think this is going to be really difficult for Nick.

[gator12]

Did Sean Lowe lead people on? I didn't watch his season but he's well like from what I've read

[huahaha]

17 minutes ago, gator12 said:

Did Sean Lowe lead people on? I didn't watch his season but he's well like from what I've read

Yeah, the final four or five all thought they were the one. Sean didn't believe in sex before marriage, so I think the girls had an even harder time at the end figuring out who he was really into. No one saw Catherine coming (possibly even Catherine). On the other hand, because he was so low-key, I'm guessing they got over it faster.

 

33 minutes ago, FamilyVan said:

The premise of the show is to lead people on.  Honestly, I think this is going to be really difficult for Nick.

Nick could easily be the dude who tries to run off with his true love after the first fantasy suite date. Or he could be in love with three women and not know what to do until one hits him over the head with a frying pan. That's what I'm excited about. 

[GoldLeaf]

7 hours ago, MsPH said:

I just don't get why he treats Ashley like a girlfriend while not wanting her to be one. No wonder she's confused. I would be too if I was in love with a friend who acts like he loves me and puts me in front of anyone else while at the same time claiming it's platonic. What a freakshow.

This sums up my thoughts in their relationship completely! They have a Very confusing relationship, mostly from Jared's part. I feel like deep down he may like Ashley more than a friend but he is afraid to lose her. I know the show has portrayed her as a nut job who stalks Jared but they are actually super close friends. If you follow their Instagram and Ashley's snap chat, they were hanging out A LOT and not because he was held prisoner by her! They jammed on road trips and he hung out in her house. The show really doesn't show the full picture of what's going on...

Now Caila seems sweet but there's something we are missing. Even Jubilee tweeted something to that effect and she keeps it real. I do believe Caila wasn't as into Jared but she looked kinda heartbroken next to him so that's confusing. 

My theory is that they dated and it was good for a while but I think when Ashley came back from paradise single (which I assume since she vacationed with Jared) - I think Jared either realised his feelings for her OR his friendship with Ash was more important and caused problems. I think Ashley didn't meddle this time. Both Ashley and Jared have a problem with taking up space in each other's heart. Caila mentioned that too. They both seem stuck. I believe men & women can be friends but not to this degree! Jared needs to decide....the way he is treating Ashley is more than a friend!

[ribboninthesky1]

Eh, Jubilee has her own socially awkward issues, so I'm not sure she's the best person to judge anyone else. If anything, she should be more sympathetic to Caila.   

Jared seemed to really like Caila, but ultimately, he sabotaged himself because he was more focused on being "nice" than establishing boundaries. Caila has a leg up on him in that because I doubt she would remain friends with a male version of Ashley.  Gender dynamics are at play here as well, as many men aren't threatened by disturbed women. Then you have men like Sean, who are like, "Dude, cut the cancer. Immediately."  

Caila admitted that her impulse is to smile when uncomfortable.  She's also reserved and introverted.  Speaking from experience, people can and do interpret that as snobbish.  The perception is probably more amplified in this context, where the expectation is to be dramatic, snarky, visibly emotional, chatty, etc. Same reason why someone like Jen is deemed boring, and gets little screentime.

I don't understand why "Jared is more into Caila than she's into him" was some indictment of Caila's character. Even without Ashley, Jared wasn't entitled to Caila's affection and attention.   

Not seeing the Caila/Wells thing - Wells looked like he threw on some clothes before heading to the studio, and Caila is much more invested in her appearance. That alone makes them incompatible, especially since I don't think they'd have much in common otherwise.  Another mark against them, Wells likes to throw 'em back, and I don't think Caila is much of a drinker.    

[GoldLeaf]

34 minutes ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

Eh, Jubilee has her own socially awkward issues, so I'm not sure she's the best person to judge anyone else. If anything, she should be more sympathetic to Caila.   

Jared seemed to really like Caila, but ultimately, he sabotaged himself because he was more focused on being "nice" than establishing boundaries. Caila has a leg up on him in that because I doubt she would remain friends with a male version of Ashley.  Gender dynamics are at play here as well, as many men aren't threatened by disturbed women. Then you have men like Sean, who are like, "Dude, cut the cancer. Immediately."  

Caila admitted that her impulse is to smile when uncomfortable.  She's also reserved and introverted.  Speaking from experience, people can and do interpret that as snobbish.  The perception is probably more amplified in this context, where the expectation is to be dramatic, snarky, visibly emotional, chatty, etc. Same reason why someone like Jen is deemed boring, and gets little screentime.

I don't understand why "Jared is more into Caila than she's into him" was some indictment of Caila's character. Even without Ashley, Jared wasn't entitled to Caila's affection and attention.   

There was clearly something the cast was seeing that we were not shown about Caila. A handful of the cast took to Twitter regarding Caila's insincerity. I believe it was more than just her luke warm feelings for Jared, I think it is a trust issue and a discrepancy in what she says/ acts on and off camera. On Afterbuzztv, Alex alluded to the BIP cast feeling this way about Caila. 

As for Jared, he is not hanging with Ashley because he is trying to be nice. The boundaries cannot be set because they are best friends and its hard since they like to hang out. The show doesn't show that. He already had that conversation with Ashley so Jared breaking up with Caila must be because of something else. If they were meant to be, no one could stop it.

[kazza]

2 hours ago, GoldLeaf said:

There was clearly something the cast was seeing that we were not shown about Caila. A handful of the cast took to Twitter regarding Caila's insincerity. I believe it was more than just her luke warm feelings for Jared, I think it is a trust issue and a discrepancy in what she says/ acts on and off camera. On Afterbuzztv, Alex alluded to the BIP cast feeling this way about Caila. 

Years ago, when I was first out of school, one of my coworkers called me disingenuous. My main crime apparently was being nice and polite to everyone - even to those who may not have deserved it. I see now that the behavior could be interpreted as insincere and untrustworthy - even when there was no ill intention. I'm much more blunt now, but at the time I naively thought that being pleasant was the best route for a new employee. 

I get the same impression from Caila. The fact that she's so beautiful may even make it worse, and she may have been conditioned to smile and be pretty. Perhaps she let down her guard off-camera and then would be all nice on-camera. I just find it odd that no one has actually leaked or even alluded more substantially to what she did that was so bad.

Or who knows, maybe she's the nut here. 

And let's not forget the gravity of calling someone a whore or a hooker. Not that BIP is anyone's idea of serious tv, but those are awful things to call someone. Awful. I don't know what's legally considered slander, but it certainly crossed a line.

Edited September 1, 2016 by kazza
Was going to comment on a new post but decided to add on this one

[Mu Shu]

Caila may be the nut here, but she never called anyone a whore or Hooker, as far as we know.    She never made snarky comments about the bachelor 's looks as far as we know.

Carly is obviously forcing herself to like Evan.  Why isn't she bring called on that?  

Until receipts are provided showing Caila kicking puppies, I'm inclined to believe Ashley and her cuckhold are the ass holes they have shown us to be.

[Ketzel]

3 hours ago, GoldLeaf said:

I feel like deep down he may like Ashley more than a friend but he is afraid to lose her.

I have never known a man, who was actually hot for a woman, refrain from having sex with her for fear it would ruin their friendship.

[truthaboutluv]

I do feel bad for her as well and think this is a case of a person just can't win. I've had a similar experience, though with me it wasn't the overly smiley personality (trust me, no one would label me that way) but more being an introvert. There are many people who still don't get that wanting to be by yourself and in your own space doesn't mean you're a bitch, think you're better than others, etc. And yet that's what some thought about me. I had people say the worse things about me and some of them I'd never even said a word to. 

[ribboninthesky1]

2 hours ago, GoldLeaf said:

There was clearly something the cast was seeing that we were not shown about Caila. A handful of the cast took to Twitter regarding Caila's insincerity. I believe it was more than just her luke warm feelings for Jared, I think it is a trust issue and a discrepancy in what she says/ acts on and off camera. On Afterbuzztv, Alex alluded to the BIP cast feeling this way about Caila. 

As for Jared, he is not hanging with Ashley because he is trying to be nice. The boundaries cannot be set because they are best friends and its hard since they like to hang out. The show doesn't show that. He already had that conversation with Ashley so Jared breaking up with Caila must be because of something else. If they were meant to be, no one could stop it.

We'll probably not agree on this, and that's fair.  But my perspective is - anyone agreeing/siding with Ashley automatically loses credibility in my eyes. 

Plus, I don't take anyone's sincerity at face value on this show. As others have stated, Caila wasn't the one calling other women whores and other insults. Now maybe she's savvy enough not to insult people on camera, but for me, that still puts her miles ahead of idiots like Ashley, the blonde twin who liked Jared, Carly. Ashley is the LAST person to call anyone an actress or insincere.  80% of the time when she's shown "crying," there is nary a tear. 

32 minutes ago, Ketzel said:

I have never known a man, who was actually hot for a woman, refrain from having sex with her for fear it would ruin their friendship.

Yeah, Jared was all over Caila - he has no problem being sexually intimate with a woman who reciprocates.  If he wanted to be with Ashley, he would be. 

33 minutes ago, Mu Shu said:

Carly is obviously forcing herself to like Evan.  Why isn't she bring called on that?  

Lissen, I need you to get on board the Cevan love train.  It's so genuine! Never mind she trashed the man on camera! Never mind that her body language doesn't line up with what she says! Choo-choo, okay?  I wonder what Evan thinks after watching the first couple of episodes. 

Edited September 1, 2016 by ribboninthesky1

[Mu Shu]

I think Evan is gross, but he's still a person who feels.   I think he's going to be very hurt by bitchy, sarcastic Carly and her "cute" talking heads.   Oh, but she's so honest!  It's better to hurt a weirdo like Evan in the quest to be a truth teller than be low key and reticent like Caila.   Fuck all these insecure man repellant ladies and their bitterness over any woman who isn't a desperate drama queen.   

[Wings]

There is nothing sinister that happened with Caila.  Ashley was referring to a conversation with Caila before they went on BiP.  Ashley asked her not to date Jared on the show.  Caila replied,  I won't, he is not my type.  Not wise of Caila to have that response. She strikes me as someone who would just be nice in the moment and tell someone what they wanted to hear.   

[Padma]

During his season(s), Sean was a "born again virgin". So as the bach, he supposedly did not have sex with any of the FS finalists. This probably saved him from seeming as much a jerk as some others (male or female--hey, Andi!)  He also gave Ben (or Chris) some good advice--to not kiss in front of other women. That made sense but Ben (or Chris) completely ignored it. Nick seems like someone who will want advice and will really think about it.

I'm not sure how he'll handle the "lead 'em on" part. Or eliminating women he genuinely likes but... just not enough. He seems a little kind for this show. (Hopefully, won't be like Ben. Seemingly nice, then just an opportunistic jerk after all. Seeing Ben and Lauren reminded me how much I came to dislike him. Hope that won't happen with Nick.)

As for Ashley and Jared, I was surprised Michelle didn't ask about two things. (1) Their trip to St Luca together which somehow gave me the feeling it went a bit farther than anything previous. Also the question....why?  Does Jared really enjoy her company that much? And ... why?

(2) 2nd question. Ashley said she finally is over Jared.  She actually seemed to be from the way she looked at him and talked. I kind of believed her this time. Could it have been the vacation (rather than B-I-P)? Maybe actually having the reality of trying to be a REAL bf/gf rather than a Disney fantasy in her head, got her to realize it just wasn't what she thought it was. I wish someone had asked because I -do- think she may be over him now. Too late for Caila, but then again, she can do so much better.