S08.E24: The Commitment Determination

[MMLEsq]

As Sheldon presses Leonard and Penny to set a wedding date, he encounters major changes in his relationship with Amy.

[TV Anonymous]

Really, Sheldon? As a comic book collector and wearer of The Flash t-shirt on regular basis, he is just thinking of watching The Flash now? Now that the season is almost over?

[Spartan Girl]

Wow.

Wow.

I mean we all saw the breakup coming. But the fact that Sheldon actually was going to propose....

And as bad as Sheldon can get, the way he reacted did make me feel sorry for him. No tantrums or protests, even though he could have blabbed about the ring. He was shocked, but it was like he understood in a way.

Godammit why did they have to end the season like this?

[upside down]

This whole season has been crap. And tonight was the topper. I hate the way they left all the relationships. They took all the fun and the laughter from the show.

[zxy556575]

I thought it was a fitting finale. Everyone is in their 30s and it's now a show about their adult lives and relationships. Emily has never been fully integrated into the group and while I feel sad for Raj that he still feels lonely even with a girlfriend, she's not right for him. There would still be a lot of stories to tell with Leonard and Sheldon both married and living across the hall from each other.

[Browncoat]

Leonard could have kept his information to himself.  If he were going to tell, he should have done so immediately instead of waiting so long.

 

It was all so melancholy.

[anna0852]

I thought that Penny's 'I'm not doing anything tonight' was wonderful. And I can kind of see where Leonard was coming from with wanting no secrets although his timing sucks. I have the feeling though we're going to see them happily married when next year picks up. I think so much comedic gold is going be found in just sorting out the living arrangements.

 

I called the Shamy breakup right away but I did not see the ring coming! The mere fact he bought that ring (and kept it secret) along with his calm reaction shows how much he has grown in just the past year even.  This time last year he was literally running away because Leonard talked about moving out. My heart broke a little when Amy was speaking at the end though. It's evident that she loves him but she isn't getting what she needs from the relationship. Sometimes 2 people can care for each other deeply but have goals that can't mesh. 

[WickedTuna]

I must have missed a ton of episodes or something because it seems like Amy and Sheldon's relationship jumped about 3 levels. For me their "necking" came out of left field. I did laugh when he said necking because that's the word my grandmother would have used.

If I was Penny I don't think I'd marry Leonard. This the second time when he was committed to someone that he made out with someone else. The first was when he was with Pryia and made out with the woman who had her own comic book. Plus, I think he hops into bed too fast. Like with Sheldon's scientist friend.

I was hoping Raj would break up with whatshername. I'm tired of the "she's creepy and scares Raj" storylines. They arent even funny.

[Frost]

I like laughing at sitcoms, not feeling sad and despondent.  I pretty much hated the ending for every set of characters.  And why have four completely separate story lines?  I like seeing how they all interact with each other.  Way a horrible way to end the season.

[msani19]

 

I was hoping Raj would break up with whatshername. I'm tired of the "she's creepy and scares Raj" storylines. They arent even funny.

Seriously. I know I've been losing interest in the show significantly this was just....not good.

Penny/Leonard - will they actually be married? Seemed like they were trying to passively talk each other out of actually getting married - like waiting for the other to say "you know what, forget this. I can't do this". Maybe if they open next season with them just married that might work....or I don't care.

Sheldon/Amy - thanks for finally breaking up with him woman. That only took WAY TOO LONG! Then him pulling out an engagement ring? My eyes rolled so hard that they still hurt. Please!!!

Howard/Bernie/Stuart - Happy birthday Stuart!

[MichaelaRae]

My brain still can't figure out what just happened.

[Mierin]

Sheldon/Amy - thanks for finally breaking up with him woman. That only took WAY TOO LONG! Then him pulling out an engagement ring? My eyes rolled so hard that they still hurt. Please!!!

 

I actually cheered when Amy broke up with Sheldon.  She should have done it years ago.

[Crucial]

I'm sad for the Sheldon/Amy break up I would have loved to see her reaction to the ring.  I love them together and I love how Amy checks him.Ugh, worst part of the show was Penny/Leonard.  Too bad they don't get married and move away.  Raj's girlfriend is just yuck and not funny at all but that may be just me. I want to see how things work out now.

[chocolatine]

It was funny when Sheldon was worried about being "all in" with a show that declines in quality. Reminds me of another show I know. *cough*

 

I did not see the ring coming either, and I feel robbed that I didn't get to see how Sheldon got from the first ILY just a few months ago to being ready to propose, especially with the coitus issue still unresolved.

 

I'm also not sure how Leonard and Penny got from "we want a small black tie church wedding" to "oh, whatever, let's just go to Vegas" in a span of a few hours. It just looked like neither of them really gave a damn, which was sad.

 

Finally, after making Bernadette progressively bitchier over the last couple of seasons, she's now finding it hard to tell Stuart to move out just because it's his birthday? It would have been more in character for her to say "well Stuart, now that you're X years old, it's really time for you to move out of our house".

Edited May 8, 2015 by chocolatine

[AD35]

The Amy/Sheldon breakup I saw coming. The ring I did not.  Since she's decided to take a break from Sheldon for awhile, does anyone think at some point she'll start dating Howard's half brother next season?.

[midge]

What crap.

Leonard is a POS. The confession served no purpose but to hurt penny. But at least he feels better. Creep.

rajesh's girlfriend is a nut job. Yeah she's a doctor. Whatever. Grow a spine raj.

I like Amy a nd Sheldon because the actors,especially MB IMO,are fantastic. But Sheldon isn't ready for anything more than kissing but he's ready to propose. Yeah. Right.

Ugh.

Edited May 8, 2015 by midge

[Latverian Diplomat]

The Sheldon ring thing came out of nowhere. And I don't see that it really fixes the problem between he and Amy. 

 

I don't see Penny and Leonard as having to get married. They're not in a hurry to start a family together. They don't even 100% live together. "Things are good right now" seems reasonable to me.

 

Raj playing the "I love you" card instead of talking it out was a huge blunder. If he's that reluctant about breaking up, he could try to get her to moderate some of her "darkness" for his sake. Couples don't have to like the same things to the same degree. It's at least worth a shot to see if there's a middle ground they can both be happy with. He hasn't given explicit feedback that she should dial back, although her not picking up on his discomfort is a bad sign.

 

I actually did like the Stuart thing, because the birthday joke was where it paid off. And unlike the other situations, it just maintains the status quo; the conversation with Stuart can happen anytime.

[MadyGirl1987]

Really, Sheldon? As a comic book collector and wearer of The Flash t-shirt on regular basis, he is just thinking of watching The Flash now? Now that the season is almost over?

Right? I thought the same when Raj mentioned trying to go to see the new Avengers film with Emily, like he would not be anticipating it highly and be there opening night, possibly as a group with the guys. I can't see any of the guys treating it as just another night at the movies like he does there.

 

That said, I thought this was a depressing way to end the season. This is a COMEDY, not some drama. I loved Mayim's acting in the video chat and Jim's reaction, but come on! I should be left with a laugh, not relationship drama. It becomes Friends where it became all soap-opera drama in the later seasons that way.

[Sentient Meat]

Leonard and Penny's drive to Vegas had the same buzzkilling melancholy that Dustin Hoffman and Katharine Ross had in the final frame of the Graduate.

 

This would be cool, had the rest of the series occasionally taken a more serious tone.

 

It felt as incongruous as if Gilligan's Island suddenly became Cast Away or Robinson Crusoe.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Sentient Meat

[Artsda]

That finale was weird. 

 

Penny and Leonard are going to Vegas to get married, Sheldon's in the room with them and they don't think "hey, we need guests and/or a witness?" If they're driving, why not grab Sheldon and call the others to go too. I don't expect them to be married in the new season unless the others show up. Also them in the car didn't seem like they were ready.

 

Sheldon was going to propose? Talk about out of nowhere, he just recently starting being able to kiss her, he does understand what marriage entails right? She'd have to live there and share a room. Sheldon can't share a room with anyone. lol I don't like Sheldon in this relationship, he's better by himself.

 

Sheldon wondering about watching The Flash was my favorite part. 

[CleoCaesar]

This felt like half an episode. Really getting tired of this show's stupid format, where every character needs a few scenes. The past several episodes they could have cut out Howard and Bernie and Stuart and given more time to the three leads.

 

Penny and Leonard - how bleak. She's settling and he's still giddy that he has a "hot" girlfriend and they just don't seem to match at all. And WHAT a dick move, telling her about a kiss that happened years ago. Penny was right - it did seem like sabotage. Definitely one of those secrets that serves absolutely no purpose to divulge.

 

THANK GOD Amy dumped Sheldon. 4 years and 364 days too late, if you ask me. Of course it's never going to stick but still. The ring thing made me roll my eyes. Sheldon doesn't get to be a dick and treat her like some accessory to his life that he makes magnanimous (in his mind) concessions for, and then be surprised when she dumps him.

 

They could have cut Raj's storyline too. Emily wasn't funny, nor has she ever been.

[PinkRibbons]

While I appreciated the surprise of it, the second I saw that ring I just thought "oh come on, it's just another stall for the next five years". It would be a total Sheldon thing to do -- give her another relationship upgrade on paper but not really go anywhere. And I say this as a diehard Shamy shipper.

 

(I do wish in a way that we had gotten to hear the audience gasp at the ring surprise. I know a lot of people hate having the audience track but I enjoy it somehow, especially when they react to surprises. Monica popping her head out of Chandler's bed and the audience going ballistic is one of my favorite Friends moments.

 

Of course now that I think about it I'll bet anything they filmed the very last part -- with the ring, but after the breakup -- without an audience to prevent spoilers.)

[Actionmage]

the second I saw that ring I just thought "oh come on, it's just another stall for the next five years".

 

During which, Sheldon would tell Amy that they wouldn't need to set a date because Leonard and Penny said you don't have to rush things.

 

He also did his stir Penny and Leonard up to get them to stop talking about how he wasn't doing something/ doing something right or nicely. They pretty much always fall for that.  Then, also predictably, Leonard says something dumb or self-sabotaging.   

 

If it turns out Amy was aware of the ring but thought not speaking to Sheldon or stating that she wanted a break would move him to propose? That would be one of the dumbest things the writers would have Amy do to get Sheldon to be closer to her.  I love Mayim B. as Amy and Amy has really had an interesting character arc. Plus, the ladies' friendships are usually fun to see.

 

This season, so many shows have disappointed me with their writing. Unfortunately, this show, while not a total stinker, has not been fun for big chunks.

 

Please, writers, make this show funny again!

[Starscream]

It was funny when Sheldon was worried about being "all in" with a show that declines in quality. Reminds me of another show I know. *cough*

I was thinking the exact same thing as he was saying it.

 

I had such an ambivalent reaction to this episode.  It was both emblematic of everything I hate about the direction this show has been going in the last 5 years, while at the same time making me laugh more than any episode in recent memory.

 

This episode served as reminder that I should never invest in a sitcom about a group of friends in their twenties.  For all the wonderful shenanigans that such setups produce, they all invariably destroy the lovely group dynamic for boring couplings in the interest of realistic aging process.  And I wouldn't mind that too terribly much in this case if they hadn't struck comedy gold with Sheldon, only to proceed to strip anyway his uniqueness bit-by-bit in favor of yet another coupling in a show chock-full of them.  They took this show's legacy character and are proceeding to make him utterly mundane.

[sinkwriter]

 

(I do wish in a way that we had gotten to hear the audience gasp at the ring surprise. I know a lot of people hate having the audience track but I enjoy it somehow, especially when they react to surprises. Monica popping her head out of Chandler's bed and the audience going ballistic is one of my favorite Friends moments.

 

You didn't hear a gasp? I just watched it a few minutes ago, and there was a definite gasp when he said to Gollum, "Tell me, what am I going to do with this ring?" And I know it wasn't me, because I gasped a split second after the audience did.  :)

 

Still... I'm not on board with Sheldon asking Amy to marry him. What, after 5 years of 1850's-type courtship, with the longest "foreplay" stall ever, he thinks that's enough for Amy to agree to marriage? What does he think they're going to do after they get married, live in separate apartments, or separate rooms, or sleep in twin beds like they're in Leave It To Beaver? At some point the question of sex is going to need to come up, and I really don't think a marriage proposal should come before that kind of discussion (and actual having of sex).  *eyeroll*

He doesn't even comprehend why she's upset with him for interrupting kissing to ask about inane TV show ideas, on their anniversary! How's he going to handle anything more in-depth in their relationship if he can't connect to even the most basic of issues or express the most basic of romantic emotions instead of treating it like something that requires a treaty? And when he still blames her for everything, saying he can't believe she didn't call him to say she's wrong?  ARGH.

Edited May 8, 2015 by sinkwriter

[Meushell]

Amy should have broken up with Sheldon a long time ago, but given the way he's treated her before, this seemed like a crappy reason. Okay, if I recall correctly, he did say he liked kissing, but I just feel like it is something he's doing for her benefit. Therefore, it really came across as "Wah, I make him kiss me, and he was thinking of a TV show!" I get that the relationship is going too slow for her, and that is good reason to break up. I just feel like the show is saying "It's okay and funny to treat people like crap, but if your romantic partner wants to move faster in a relationship, something is wrong with you."

The break up was done well though, up until the ring reveal. I just have a hard time believing he was ready for marriage.

Why did they have to make Leonard cheat? It just downgrades the character. It also destroys the plot of him finding a way to get home early to spend alone time with Penny. Instead of being romantic, he just felt guilty. When Penny emphasized it being "Just kissing, right?" I was expecting for a "Well..." response. I hope it stays to just kissing. Also, what's going to happen if he gets another opportunity to take his work elsewhere? Penny has never wanted to get in the way of his work, but she's going to (rightfully) worry if he'll be faithful.

[Gulftastic]

I know this is my show because as soon as they started talking about sticking with a show till the bitter end, my mind went straight to Smallville. I'll never get that time back.

 

I liked the ep. When a sitcom runs this long, with one or two exceptions, it has to become a soap opera with laughs. BBT has done that rather well. I am invested in Penny & Leonard and the Shamy (top notch acting from them in the video chat part). I don't care if it's more soap than sitcom. I like soaps.

[Andromeda]

Seriously. I know I've been losing interest in the show significantly this was just....not good.

Penny/Leonard - will they actually be married? Seemed like they were trying to passively talk each other out of actually getting married - like waiting for the other to say "you know what, forget this. I can't do this". Maybe if they open next season with them just married that might work....or I don't care.

Sheldon/Amy - thanks for finally breaking up with him woman. That only took WAY TOO LONG! Then him pulling out an engagement ring? My eyes rolled so hard that they still hurt. Please!!!

Howard/Bernie/Stuart - Happy birthday Stuart!

Yes to all of this. I wasn't touched at all by Sheldon's "ring" gesture. He seemed far too sanguine that his girlfriend dumped him, for one. For two, where in the heck did that even come from? He has never ever shown the least bit of interest in sex or going any further with Amy. I was rooting for Amy when she finally broke up with him -- been far, FAR too long coming. She's put up with too much, and clearly he wasn't giving her what she needs in a relationship. So the engagement ring just did not feel earned, and it elicited no real emotion from me but an eyeroll for the writer's silliness.

 

I really do want Penny and Leonard to get on with it, but why can't they take their friends with them to Vegas? Their friends need to be with them on their big day. I hate that everyone headed their separate ways instead. 

 

Raj should break up with his girlfriend if it's not a right fit. Sticking with it because his friends think he can't ever get laid again if he breaks up with her is just silly. He's grown a lot from being with her, and needs to move on.

 

And no way in HELL would Sheldon, a huge Flash fan, not already be watching The Flash!

Edited May 8, 2015 by Andromeda

[Bazinga]

 

Pryia was already cheating on Leonard at the time.  Leonard just didn't find out about it until he talked to Pryia about the comic book girl.

Leonard not yet knowing doesn't make his behavior right.

 

The show repeatedly tries to portray Leonard as this wonderful, caring, sensitive guy, when he is nothing more than a phony who chases any new cute girl by catering to them by doing favors, being "interested" in them and their interests and appearing to be so caring.  There are many examples. 

 

Start with Penny.  Leonard does not think highly of her and just likes her for her hotness, for sex, and to impress others that he has a hot girlfriend.  He doesn't need to marry her for any of that.  He thinks he is superior to Penny and his good guy behavior is very much calculated to make him seem endearing and get on her good side.  He mostly just tolerates her for the benefits it brings him.  A rare example of his actually showing his true feelings and not kissing her ass, was when he told her what he really thought of her belief in psychics and he was a jerk in doing that, yet thought he was justified as he always does.  The rest of the time he just plays up to her so she will like him.  All fake. 

 

Then there are his other relationships.  His only interest in Leslie Winkle was rebound sex after being rejected by Penny, though he wanted a more conventional relationship then Leslie.  Leonard was willing to give top secret information to Joyce Kim in order to impress her for sex.  What he liked about Priya was that she was pretty.  He swooned after the never seen again hot neighbor upstairs and tossed Penny aside to do favors for the new girl, so she would like him.  Comic Book girl, Alice, was interested, Leonard didn't care he was in a relationship and felt he was being a "good guy" by ultimately not having sex after making out and certainly wanting to have sex.  He always wants the next hot girl who all fall for the wonders of Leonard--Dr. Stephanie, Dr. Plimpton etc.  He was flattered by Sheldon's assistant being interested, which further inflates his ego about how desirable he is without realizing he was wrong to Penny and Alex by being so receptive of such flirting while in a committed relationship. 

 

He always returns to Penny, not out of love, but the desire to have sex with a hot girl who he thinks is out of his league looks wise, to have an impressive girlfriend, who he doesn't care that he objectifies, and that ultimately the show revolves around the characters being a couple.  Is there any evidence he even likes Penny or enjoys spending time with her?  I bet Leonard doesn't even know her last name, either.

 

Now it is revealed that he, while in a relationship with Penny, made out with another girl just because Penny wasn't there and I assume, as usual, the girl was pretty and showed the slightest interest in him.  Show tried to act like it was OK because he didn't go further and he was being honest.  Total nonsense.  By telling at that moment, it seemed like he was sabotaging the wedding he didn't want to happen, but was pressured into by Sheldon and not wanting to admit to Penny he doesn't want to get married to her.  He couldn't even say that he didn't want to get married, he had to passive-aggressively act like he was the "good guy" by wanting to be "honest" about something he should have been honest about months ago, in order to get Penny to call off the wedding so it can be on Penny that she didn't want to get married, not wonderful Leonard. 

 

My point is that I don't like that Leonard is always being portrayed as such a "good guy", when his actions very much belie this.  I think Leonard is a jerk made worse by his and the show pretending that he is a caring person, when he is not.  Don't like Leonard as a character.  This episode was just the latest example of why.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Bazinga

[buffynut]

I kept expecting Leonard to say there was a baby, so "just a kiss" was a relief.  But I was so happy when they decided to elope, that the kiss revelation ruined it for me.  I do, however, hope they are married when the new season begins.

 

It's about time Amy broke up with Sheldon. I know it won't be permanent, but I can't see Sheldon ever transforming enough to be a husband.  I wish they had left Amy as the female version of Sheldon, then I think they'd both have been happy with their friendship.  I liked the silence with Sheldon when he was digesting the fact that Amy had broken up with him.  I think they should have left it there and not brought the ring out from left field. 

 

So Raj still does not have the right girlfriend. I think awkward Lucy and Raj had more chemistry, though I know I'm in the minority in that opinion.

 

The Howard, Bernadette, Stuart storyline was the one I enjoyed the best. Though it was still a bit sad that Stuart is still all alone with no one who wants him around.

 

So, not my favourite finale, but I guess a touch better than last year when Sheldon ran away.   Howard goes into space is my favourite.

[Oldernowiser]

So awkward in so many ways...

I suppose it's possible that in Sheldon character's mind getting married would buy him a permanent get out of jail free card with Amy and that nothing would have to really change...after all, Penny and Leonard are engaged yet supposedly only live together a couple of nights a week. Why wouldn't Sheldon's idea of marriage be similar and also be sexless? Amy's "compromised" for this long, why wouldn't he think it would keep going his way?

Leonard kissing another girl...Chuck Lorre has such an incredibly dim view of humanity. According to the episode where Leonard was on the boat, he was bragging up his girlfriend and showing everyone the topless gorilla photos. So this doesn't really make any sense.

Emily can disappear any time. She's too creepy to be funny and they have zero chemistry. Raj had more sparks going with the LV hooker.

The contrived relationship cliffhangers are pretty tedious. Whoever compared this to the final seasons of Friends was dead on. BBT just has some occasional really funny lines that give me false hope for five minutes.

[marketdoctor]

 

Whoever compared this to the final seasons of Friends was dead on.

 

That was an implied meta-reference in the show (about shows declining in their later seasons.)  Though it was a nice reference to Smallville, I think someone on the writing staff knew this show was...getting Smaller.

 

The Sheldon ring reveal was touching, but it didn't make any sense that Amy was dropping anvils about commitment, and he had the ring RIGHT THERE.  They might try to spin it as "he's waiting for the right moment", but when Amy literally asked for a commitment, Sheldon couldn't have not seen that.  It was Amy being direct and clear, and Sheldon does moderately well with direct and clear, unless in the moment he was also self-sabotaging their relationship.  Although pain can be mined for humor, there's a limit.  

 

On the car trip, I wanted to see Penny mention a secret or a regret to balance things out, though maybe the point was that Leonard and Penny will never have a balanced relationship as long as the unbalance can be mined for more comedy.  

 

I even get the sadness of this episode--it's like the writers/cast don't want the show to end, but they're not sure where to go with these characters next, since the "boy wants girl"/"boy loses girl"/"boy gets girl back" trope has been cycled almost to death, and once Sheldon finishes growing up, they can't mine that for a whole lot more.

[joanne3482]

Couples don't have to like the same things to the same degree. It's at least worth a shot to see if there's a middle ground they can both be happy with. He hasn't given explicit feedback that she should dial back, although her not picking up on his discomfort is a bad sign.

 

But she did seem to pick it up and he keeps pooh poohing what she's picking up. 

[MDL]

 

I really do want Penny and Leonard to get on with it, but why can't they take their friends with them to Vegas? Their friends need to be with them on their big day. I hate that everyone headed their separate ways instead.

I agree, they should have taken their friends, but with the turmoil in the friends relationships, it would NOT have been a fun wedding.

Maybe this is the start of pressing the "reset" button?While it gives the viewers something to wonder about leading into next season, I think that it could have been done in a better fashion.

Thoughts:

Leonard & Penny-don't jump into  wedding on a whim.

Shamy: sad for him, but he is still out of touch with reality.

Howard & Bernadette & Stuart: It is a big house, but Stuart time to grow up.

Raj & Emily: Unless her darkness is revealed ASAp to be a defense mechanism-he should dump her.

[Shermie]

I find this thread to be more of a downer than the episode.

I liked the episode and found it to be a natural progression of the characters.

Leonard still can't figure out if he wants Penny because she's the hot girl or because he actually loves her. Probably both. So he encourages and sabotages the relationship at the same time. Penny is okay with getting married, or not. They both seem like the types who would be okay being married, or living together for,the rest of their lives.

Raj thought that as long as he had a girlfriend, he'd be happy. But now he knows that there's more to it than just a pretty girl to have sex with. He wants a relationship. Maybe he'll run into that vet again next season.

Howard and Bernadette would like to have the house to themselves. Whoever said that Stuart hasn't been there very long - he's been there since Debbie died, which was weeks ago (maybe months in BBT time). That's a long time to be a house guest. I wish they'd redecorate that house, though. I find it hard to believe that Bernadette likes that floral wallpaper, although I can see Howard being the type who wants his childhood home to stay exactly the same.

As for Sheldon and Amy, buying a ring seems like a natural action for Sheldon. In his head, he might be thinking (or his mom told him) that's proper social convention to get engaged after five years of dating. Amy knew what Sheldon was like when she began the relationship, so being frustrated by his behaviour is what you get. She's actually moved him a long way forward, so I don't agree that she should have dumped him ages ago. He is allowed to be himself and he was quite clear about that from the get-go. Amy is allowed to tire of it, though, so I guess this is what happens. Time will tell if they are both willing to change their expectations for the sake of the relationship.

As for Sheldon watching The Flash? Heh, I get not wanting to commit to a new show. Sheldon is very "all in" and he already watches many shows. There's only so much time in a day and you don't want to waste your time on something subpar.

Do they watch Arrow? Because The Flash and Arrow go together.

[CherryAmes]

I find this thread to be more of a downer than the episode.

 

I feel like that all the time!  I still find this show funny (although not as funny as when it was still fresh) but it's still one of the best things on TV right now.  It's had some misteps IMO but so far it's not gone too far down the Two and a Half Men road.  Long may that last.

 

Leonard kissing another girl...Chuck Lorre has such an incredibly dim view of humanity. According to the episode where Leonard was on the boat, he was bragging up his girlfriend and showing everyone the topless gorilla photos. So this doesn't really make any sense.

 

I was thinking this too.  But honestly the supposed kiss that we never heard anything about until now makes about as much sense as that stupid topless gorilla scene that we also never heard about until that particular episode despite Sheldon saying that they saw it almost as soon as they'd met Penny.  Like Howard was never ever going to say anything?  Uh huh.  I can see writing a backstory  that the writers didn't foresee in early episodes but let's be a little consistent writers!

[Actionmage]

, but was pressured into by Sheldon

 

 Sheldon actually didn't pressure them, even if he was doing the usual asking awkward questions of L/P. They then proceed to pressure themselves into something. Honestly, I am surprised they didn't have Leonard get assy about getting married in Las Vegas "again" for Penny. 

I get that the relationship is going too slow for her, and that is good reason to break up. I just feel like the show is saying "It's okay and funny to treat people like crap, but if your romantic partner wants to move faster in a relationship, something is wrong with you."

The break up was done well though, up until the ring reveal. I just have a hard time believing he was ready for marriage.

 

I agree  with the above. Yet, I feel the show is also saying " It's okay and funny to be treated like crap in a relationship, but if your partner refuses to act like a reasonable adult, there's something wrong with you."   I am not talking about sex, but everything else. Dates, going to her family's events, respecting her work or at least not disparaging it.  

 

The second someone pointed out that Amy has affected him a little, his instinct is to break up with her because she's compromised him! It never has occurred to Sheldon that it might be an enhancement because apparently he's practically perfect, in his opinion.

 

I also see what the above poster pointed out- that Sheldon is very much being pressured now ( in the last couple of seasons) to do more than he's necessarily comfortable with doing. No one should have to go through that. Yet, he wants to keep Amy around. Either he is being like Raj, where both are disingenuous about how they really feel to keep a woman in their life, or he needs to break up with Amy because he should recognize that after  five years, a little kissing and tons of hand-holding isn't where Amy was hoping to be. Sheldon can love Amy, but he's dreck as a boyfriend, especially when he can barely figure out how she thinks.  Amy just asked for some time, so there is no official break-up yet, imo.  

 

But Amy feeds Sheldon's ego as much as Penny feeds Leonard's, and [sarcasm] it so hilarious to see clearly dysfunctional relationships.[/sarcasm] (It could be written as funny and with a lighter touch, but it isn't.)

 

The production card said #500; I thought Mr. Lorre had stopped writing them.

 

edited because 'wither' and 'with her'? Two different things.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Actionmage

[Saylii]

My predictions/hopes for next season:

Leonard and Penny get married.

Raj and Emily stay together, but don't change.

Howard and Bernie kick Stuart out.

Leonard and Penny move in together in her apartment.

Stuart moves in with Sheldon and violates every single line of the Roommate Agreement.

Sheldon works on dealing with Stuart and repairing his relationship with Amy.

Amy dates some lunkhead jock who is an idiot, but very sweet and treats her right.

Amy finally dumps lunkheads jock for being an idiot (maybe he ruins an experiment by corrupting a monkey?). Decides to give Sheldon another chance on her terms without a relationship agreement.

I don't think the show can work with Any crawling back to Sheldon without anything changing. This type of "shock" isn't going to make Sheldon appreciate Amy. He is going to have to learn how to do that by growing up, basically. Other then the whole string theory thing, he really hasn't had to work for anything on the show.

Penny and Leonard are going to end up married and probably divorced by the end of the series. I have a feeling she's going to do big things while Leonard wallows around in status quo. In a way, Leonard is even worse about relying on his brains to get him through life since he believes it makes him God's gift to vapid, hot women.

The only place they can really go with Bernie and Howard at this point is a baby or reducing them to friends of. They don't really have any major relationship issues, they are about to kick Stuart out of their house, Howard's not planning on going into space again, they are both pretty settled in their careers...

Raj and Emily remind me a lot of his parents. They had an arranged marriage and had to get along. Raj feels like Emily is the only girl that'll have sex with him. I have a feeling this is the new couple that'll get dragged out for eternity. They've done the Raj tries to find himself angle before with little success, so I don't think they'll go back to that. I do think they'll eventually end up engaged, maybe even with her doing the proposing. Then they'll end up broken up when she just has to move across country for her dermatology job.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Saylii

[Latverian Diplomat]

I kept expecting Leonard to say there was a baby, so "just a kiss" was a relief.  

 

Leonard having a love child from a remote, oceanic expedition would have set up some Submariner jokes, so missed opportunity?

 

(I kid, Leonard only going as far as first base and still being super guilty about it is more in character).

[Oldernowiser]

Okay, so I watched it again this time without all of the ferkakta commercials and it was more compelling and less WTF when it wasn't in forty second microbursts.

I'm not at all sure where they can go from here, though...I can see Penny seething for the rest of the way to Vegas and then doing something dramatic. She might even break up with him, because for all her ambivalence she always seemed to value the fact that she could trust Leonard and rely on him, but now...

I still want Raj to dump Emily...but she might boil his dog. And make him eat it.

Shamy...it's not really resolvable. When two people want such disparate things from a relationship...even if Sheldon concedes to having a sexual relationship with Amy to win her back, is that what she wants? It's bad enough he was only going through the motions when they were "necking."

Oh and I'm wondering if the writers are going to steal the Monica/Chandler Vegas ambivalence storyline or the Ross/Rachel Vegas get drunk and go through with it storyline...although they kinda already did that with Zach. If this keeps up, they really should be paying royalties.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Oldernowiser

[joanne3482]

Howard and Bernadette would like to have the house to themselves. Whoever said that Stuart hasn't been there very long - he's been there since Debbie died, which was weeks ago (maybe months in BBT time). That's a long time to be a house guest. I wish they'd redecorate that house, though. I find it hard to believe that Bernadette likes that floral wallpaper, although I can see Howard being the type who wants his childhood home to stay exactly the same.

 

Stuart's been there since long before Debbie died - since the Comic Book shop burned down. I think that's part of the problem. Stuart doesn't consider himself a house guest at this point. He had been living with Debbie and helping with some of her care and possibly had an expectation of staying longer term had she not died. He probably has a lot of his stuff moved in.  

 

When they first moved in, there was a lot of talk about what Bernadette wanted changed, including the wall paper and knocking down a wall to create a more open kitchen/living room area.  Howard almost died from even the suggestion that something different happen to his childhood home. 

 

Shamy...it's not really resolvable. When two people want such disparate things from a relationship...even if Sheldon concedes to having a sexual relationship with Amy to win her back, is that what she wants? It's bad enough he was only going through the motions when they were "necking."

 

Right. A friend of mine and I had this conversation once. You can love someone and be incompatible with them in the long term. There are certain things that are deal breakers in a relationship and there's no real way to compromise. There's nothing wrong with Amy wanting an active sexual relationship with her partner. There's nothing wrong with Sheldon having no intention or interest in ever engaging in coitus with another person with any regularity. These two people can love each other but they should not be together. It isn't fair to either one of them. 

[Gulftastic]

Aside from thinking about The Flash TV show, Sheldon seemed into the snogging. He was keen to carry it on. Aside from their first kiss on the train, this is the closest we've seen to sexual desire from him.

[CleoCaesar]

I suppose it's possible that in Sheldon character's mind getting married would buy him a permanent get out of jail free card with Amy and that nothing would have to really change...after all, Penny and Leonard are engaged yet supposedly only live together a couple of nights a week. Why wouldn't Sheldon's idea of marriage be similar and also be sexless? Amy's "compromised" for this long, why wouldn't he think it would keep going his way?

 

Sheldon voluntarily buying a ring with the intention to propose makes absolutely no sense given what we know of the character, but the above paragraph is the only way it might approach making sense. Sheldon is obsessed with social convention since it's the only way he knows how to relate to people, so MAYBE at some point he would want to fulfill the marriage convention. But to just abruptly buy a ring in secret? Not believable.

 

Sheldon would be an absolute nightmare as a husband. His childishness would make Howard's pale in comparison.

[sinkwriter]

 

Aside from thinking about The Flash TV show, Sheldon seemed into the snogging. He was keen to carry it on. Aside from their first kiss on the train, this is the closest we've seen to sexual desire from him.

 

I know! I was surprised when -- in the moment, during their conversation -- it was Sheldon who bent forward, seemingly intent to resume their kissing. I felt that was pretty unusual for him.

 

Of course, just because he's finally getting with the program in regard to kissing doesn't mean Amy should stay with him. I think she's finally hitting a final straw. Five years is a very long time to be with someone and still be negotiating for emotional and/or physical connection. Especially on one's anniversary. And she shouldn't have to explain to him yet again why she'd like him to be thinking about her and about enjoying their kissing rather than thinking about trains or lunch or what TV shows to watch.

Edited May 8, 2015 by sinkwriter

[LoneHaranguer]

 

I liked the silence with Sheldon when he was digesting the fact that Amy had broken up with him.  I think they should have left it there and not brought the ring out from left field.

Pulling out the ring was the obvious "twist", so I was totally expecting it. The writers have been phoning it in all season.

[Oldernowiser]

Didn't Amy have a four-year plan? I was at least expecting some reference to that. Guess the writers forgot about it?

It always frosts my cookies a little when it feels like so many of the viewers remember more about the show than its creators.

[CoyoteBlue]

I think for Amy the real issue is not so much the sex as the romance and companionship. If Sheldon was completely asexual (and upfront about it) but managed to be sweet to her and attentive and understanding of her feelings and needs, if he remembered anniversaries and did cute things to celebrate, if he would escort her to events without complaint, Amy would quite possibly make do with the electric toothbrush for the rest of her life and be content. Asexuals marry or get into relationships all the time. But that's the exact part Sheldon doesn't seem to have to give - he seems to be demisexual and aromantic. Even if he had sex with her, it'd have to be some damn amazing and frequent sex to make up for the emotional celibacy.

[SmithW6079]

When the show opened with Amy and Sheldon kissing, I knew it was going to be awful. I find the thought of a sexual Sheldon repugnant. Once again, we're treated to an entire episode of Sheldon is a dick to Amy, but look! He does one nice gesture and we're supposed to forgive him. That's not love, that's emotional abuse. As for the silly ring business, that made me groan, but not in sympathy for the character. Sheldon does not get a pass for his past behavior.

 

And besides, his timing is suspicious because with Leonard marrying Penny and presumably moving into her apartment for the time being, Sheldon needs a new roommate. Why not kill two birds with one stone and get Amy off his back? I cheered when she finally broke up with him, even though we all know it won't last.

 

Why did they have to go back to angsty Penny and Leonard? In the Skype call-graduation episode, they were laughing and joking with each, obviously comfortable in their relationship. In those moments, I think they're the best couple on this show. That's the Penny and Leonard I want to see. I thought his secret was going to be that he had been married previously and wasn't sure if he was divorced or not.

 

I despise Raj, because he's a user and a jerk, and it is painful to watch him interact with his girlfriend, because they have zero chemistry. We get it, she's got a death/horror fetish, and it's supposed to be funny because it's the 180 from Raj, who is (in his own mind) sugar and spice and everything nice. (It's almost like the final season of "Friends," when they paired Phoebe with new character Mike, with whom she had zero chemistry, when she should have ended up with Hank Azaria's scientist character.)

 

The Howard/Bernadette/Stuart story line was weak. I can't believe Stuart is that clueless that he doesn't realize Howard and Bernadette might want time alone, but then again, they retconned the character from being slightly nerdy, but a talented artist, to a pathetic loser. Bernadette has never let anyone's feelings get in the way of her being a bitch to get what she wants, so it was unrealistic that she suddenly developed a conscience.

[Trichromatic]

I like laughing at sitcoms, not feeling sad and despondent.  I pretty much hated the ending for every set of characters.  And why have four completely separate story lines?  I like seeing how they all interact with each other.  Way a horrible way to end the season.

 

 

I think this show is in desperate need for more moments that have this episode's tone. I've come to love the characters and am invested in them but sometimes it feels like they never have any real conversation. It's like the audience tunes in for the funny jokes and the real growth and conversations happen off-screen.

 

I loved that this episode FINALLY addressed so many of the issues I have about the show: Sheldon and Amy's snail-pace relationship stopped being funny or cute years ago. Amy has put up with so much cluelessness that it's become frustrating. Sheldon's cluelessness is written as two-dimensional. I'm glad that Amy broke up with Sheldon, if only for the new plotlines that it's bound to create.

I agree with people who are saying that Sheldon buying a ring out of the blue is as out of character as out of character can possibly get. I could buy it more if we get a flashback with his thought process, like maybe he talked to Leonard and they bought the ring together, or something.

 

Can anyone remind me why Howard & Bernardette are still at Howards's mom's house? What happened to their old apartment?

[SmithW6079]

I agree with people who are saying that Sheldon buying a ring out of the blue is as out of character as out of character can possibly get. I could buy it more if we get a flashback with his thought process, like maybe he talked to Leonard and they bought the ring together, or something.

 

The thought occurs to me that Sheldon might have been prompting Penny and Leonard to set a date because he planned to ask Amy to marry him and Leonard would have to move.

 

Can anyone remind me why Howard & Bernardette are still at Howards's mom's house? What happened to their old apartment?

 

They gave up her apartment to move back into Howard's mother's house.