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Michelle and JimBob aka J'Chelle and Boob

OSM Mom

By OSM Mom
in Counting On

cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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SnapHappy

SnapHappy

(edited)
54 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I didn't even think about that. So, it goes back to them not caring. 

Not caring about HIM, but caring about how it would look on the show. 

I think they desperately wanted the audience to see a healthy & still vigorous Patriarch, so the chair, cake, etc. were their attempts to bypass the "daddy is actually dying" issue. 

It was all about audience perception.  

Edited by SnapHappy
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doodlebug
doodlebug

I'm from a fairly big city and raised mostly in town though also the suburbs.  I've had the same experience.  I attend a Catholic church and am active in several volunteer things there including medic

Aja
Aja

Once again, Michelle, I'm going to have to bum you out with a big old steaming pile of fact: I was born a girl, I'm glad to be a girl, I'm very feminine looking, I love being feminine looking...AND I'

doodlebug
doodlebug

Happens all the time.  Had someone tell us they couldn't pay the bill for prenatal care because they were building a new house and couldn't spare the money.  Another had just bought a new car.  BTW, i

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Minivanessa

Minivanessa

22 minutes ago, SnapHappy said:

Not caring about HIM, but caring about how it would look on the show. 

I think they desperately wanted the audience to see a healthy & still vigorous Patriarch, so the chair, cake, etc. were their attempts to bypass the "daddy is actually dying" issue. 

It was all about audience perception.  

And so tone deaf. 

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Absolom

Absolom

1 hour ago, anyasmom said:

A person/family can politely decline a visit from the hospice chaplain.  At least for all the hospices I have dealt with.  I have had atheist patients.

Jimmy Lee would not have had to have anyone but the nurse if that's all they wanted.  Every time I've signed someone up, they've asked about which of their possible people would the person want to see or not want to see.  

I'll probably never forget that shameful dragging the poor man out and the dog and pony show they made of making the dessert and pretending to make him eat.  

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Absolom

Absolom

(edited)
57 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

IMO they didn't sign him up for hospice care because it's a government service. This is a huge thing for them and their cult, and they justify not paying taxes because they don't use these types of services. 

I don't really see that because it's Medicare funded so it's the same as using Medicare for doctors or hospitals.  I think it's more something like they didn't want people in the house, they don't believe in a hospice approach, or maybe they didn't even know about it.  

Edited by Absolom
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CalicoKitty

CalicoKitty

6 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

Possible, but if I remember he was pretty far gone. My dad had brain cancer and nothing works right mentally. 

Yeah--I didn't have the impression that the poor man had a choice.  Being pushed around  by the Howlers in a broken office chair with his shoe falling off was just plain sad.  How, by any definition, is this "honoring your father?  Also, filming him in bed while he was dying was a typical Duggar touch.

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Nysha

Nysha

4 hours ago, anyasmom said:

JB and M probably wouldn't have wanted the hospice's social worker to come either.  Who knows what he or she might have found or observed?

I think this is the main reason. JB wasn't going to let in an authority who might find out that he was an abusive person into HIS house. That he also didn't adequately care for his dad was due to his dislike of the man.

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Almost 3000

Almost 3000

8 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

My dad did for the last couple of weeks of his life. They were so good to him. We didn't pay out of pocket for it. I think Medicare covered it. I don't quite remember. 

I have a possible idea why they didn't! . My dad had a chaplain who would visit with him. Maybe they were afraid that the "wrong type" of Christian would come in? 

Hospice gives you many services you can use but you don't have to take them. I was offered a chaplain, with I took because I knew my mom would be comforted by those visits. They also offered a social worker that I declined because I thought it would just confuse her but I did use them for information a couple of times. I wondered too why the Duggars wouldn't use hospice and figured it was for the same reasons they don't use any public services and that's the fear of government interference.

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CalicoKitty

CalicoKitty

1 minute ago, Almost 3000 said:

Hospice gives you many services you can use but you don't have to take them. I was offered a chaplain, with I took because I knew my mom would be comforted by those visits. They also offered a social worker that I declined because I thought it would just confuse her but I did use them for information a couple of times. I wondered too why the Duggars wouldn't use hospice and figured it was for the same reasons they don't use any public services and that's the fear of government interference.

Hospice will also provide equipment:  hospital bed, commode, wheel chair, bedside fall mat--what ever is appropriate for the patient.  Also supplies:  diapers, wipes, bandages. meds--again whatever the patient needs for their care.  If you qualify for Hospice care, you are given GREAT, compassionate care.  I cannot say enough good things about Hospice.  I am so grateful to them for the care they gave my dad two years ago, and my mom this year.  They are also very supportive for the family.  I don't know what we would have done without them.

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Almost 3000

Almost 3000

(edited)
8 minutes ago, CalicoKitty said:

Hospice will also provide equipment:  hospital bed, commode, wheel chair, bedside fall mat--what ever is appropriate for the patient.  Also supplies:  diapers, wipes, bandages. meds--again whatever the patient needs for their care.  If you qualify for Hospice care, you are given GREAT, compassionate care.  I cannot say enough good things about Hospice.  I am so grateful to them for the care they gave my dad two years ago, and my mom this year.  They are also very supportive for the family.  I don't know what we would have done without them.

Yes, amazing services that grow as needed. I did find differences in services between agencies so ask around. The first once I had to source and pay for things that the second took care of.

I'm surprised Mary, who was not really Gothard and known to source freebies, didn't insist on hospice no matter what JB and M thought.

Edited by Almost 3000
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emmawoodhouse

emmawoodhouse

(edited)
1 hour ago, Future Cat Lady said:

I was wondering if JL Duggar might have been abusive towards his wife and children. That might explain JB a little.

Boob never mentioned physical abuse during his spiels against JL. Verbal abuse was implied when Boob talked about his beer drinking. From the speeches I've heard, JL was a recreational beer drinker (a couple beers while working on his cars), but  Boob blew it up as if he was a full blown alcoholic. This tactic is common among the fundies who believe that any alcohol consumption is of the devil, and that anyone who drinks must be an alcoholic. 

Edited by emmawoodhouse
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libgirl2

libgirl2

56 minutes ago, CalicoKitty said:

Hospice will also provide equipment:  hospital bed, commode, wheel chair, bedside fall mat--what ever is appropriate for the patient.  Also supplies:  diapers, wipes, bandages. meds--again whatever the patient needs for their care.  If you qualify for Hospice care, you are given GREAT, compassionate care.  I cannot say enough good things about Hospice.  I am so grateful to them for the care they gave my dad two years ago, and my mom this year.  They are also very supportive for the family.  I don't know what we would have done without them.

My mom appeared to be in a great deal pain and agitation.  She was not able to communicate to us at all. As soon as hospice was in place,  and we are talking less than a half hour,  she was given morphine and was able to rest. 

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LilJen

LilJen

So glad to hear of great hospice experiences! Hospice social worker here. In addition to everything already mentioned, they may have had all kinds of erroneous beliefs about hospice (they kill people/euthanasia, the medications hasten death, grandma will get addicted to morphine, hospice is ONLY for when you’re on death’s door). Poor JL never even had a chance to have someone come explain what hospice is and isn’t. Not sure they would have followed the plan of care anyway (like the husband who pit Dr. Google against our multiple board certified doctor, causing his poor wife much distress), and JL might still have suffered more than needed.

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lookeyloo

lookeyloo

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Hospice was of great help and comfort when Sweet Son was sick and they helped us all through his death and after. We all Grief counseling for a year and still check in with the grief counselor.  It’s too bad the Duggars didn’t avail themselves of something so helpful. Everything was with our input and we were given utmost respect. 

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SunnyBeBe

SunnyBeBe

(edited)

I highly recommend Hospice.  I requested it for my cousin, for whom I was responsible due to dementia, and she was on it for 2 years!  She was in Memory care, but it was an extra set of eyes to ensure she wasn’t suffering.  The social worker was awesome and her visits were quite helpful.  I learned a lot about grieving and it’s a lot more than I used to think.  
 

I don’t know the Duggars feelings about Hospice, but I am surprised at the families I see who do not choose Hospice.  I don’t get it. Most of them seem to think it’s a way to rush a death.  They seem to be in denial.  Also, I’ve watched many of episodes of a show on Reelz called Autopsy:The Last Hours. They showcase the lives and deaths of famous people.  Quite a few of these celebrities are terminally ill, yet as they describe the last weeks, days, hours of their lives,…..Hospice is not involved.  Maybe, they have their own private nurses available 24/7 so they feel Hospice is not necessary.  Idk.  It’s odd, imo.  

Edited by SunnyBeBe
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Tdoc72

Tdoc72

3 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Boob never mentioned physical abuse during his spiels against JL. Verbal abuse was implied when Boob talked about his beer drinking. From the speeches I've heard, JL was a recreational beer drinker (a couple beers while working on his cars), but  Boob blew it up as if he was a full blown alcoholic. This tactic is common among the fundies who believe that any alcohol consumption is of the devil, and that anyone who drinks must be an alcoholic. 

Isn’t that one of their issues with Jill?  She (GASP) had a drink & shared it on social media. 

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auntieminem

auntieminem

(edited)

Not sure where to put this. It is an interview on the SoJo Files  with the Holts about JB &Michelle and what happened with Josh. This is part one and part two will come out later.  https://www.buzzsprout.com/1859745/10727052-duggar-super-source-jim-bobye-holt

Maybe this should have went to the Josh thread but since it is about the relationship with JB & M and their interactions I put it here. Can move if needs be. 

Saw this on Reddit. 

Edited by auntieminem
ETA: found this on Reddit
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Gemma Violet

Gemma Violet

(edited)
On 5/31/2022 at 5:13 PM, emmawoodhouse said:

Oh, this was TOTALLY Boob's revenge. JL's last few months were horrible. What bothered me is that Mary was also living there, but seemed to do nothing.

I don't remember if I saw this episode.  I think I missed the very early shows.

Count me in as another hospice believer.  My mom was on hospice for a month before she died.  We set up her bed in the living room.  They were so great--I could call them at any time with any questions or concerns I had.  A nurse's aide came three times a week to bathe her.  A registered nurse came once a week and an LPN came IIRC twice a week.  Medicine was delivered.  A chaplain was available.  When my mom died, I called them and they took over regarding having her body picked up. 

Edited by Gemma Violet
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jcbrown

jcbrown

50 minutes ago, auntieminem said:

Not sure where to put this. It is an interview on the SoJo Files  with the Holts about JB &Michelle and what happened with Josh. This is part one and part two will come out later.  https://www.buzzsprout.com/1859745/10727052-duggar-super-source-jim-bobye-holt

Maybe this should have went to the Josh thread but since it is about the relationship with JB & M and their interactions I put it here. Can move if needs be. 

Saw this on Reddit. 

Do they put transcripts up anywhere, do you know? Not willing to dedicate 30+ minutes to something I could read in 5, though I am interested.

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Heathen

Heathen

7 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Boob never mentioned physical abuse during his spiels against JL. Verbal abuse was implied when Boob talked about his beer drinking. From the speeches I've heard, JL was a recreational beer drinker (a couple beers while working on his cars), but  Boob blew it up as if he was a full blown alcoholic. This tactic is common among the fundies who believe that any alcohol consumption is of the devil, and that anyone who drinks must be an alcoholic. 

JL appeared in the On the Road special, the one that aired when Johanna was a baby. IIRC, JL and Mary had to come rescue the fundie Duggars (the Fuggars?) when a car broke down or something before they even made it out of Arkansas. JL was polite but made it clear he didn't approve of breeding for Jesus. I'm sure that was a source of conflict for JL and JB, since as we've seen, JB is the type who knows everything so he can't tolerate being told what to do, and that would include "stop having so many kids since you clearly can't manage or afford them without help." 

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Tikichick

Tikichick

15 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Boob never mentioned physical abuse during his spiels against JL. Verbal abuse was implied when Boob talked about his beer drinking. From the speeches I've heard, JL was a recreational beer drinker (a couple beers while working on his cars), but  Boob blew it up as if he was a full blown alcoholic. This tactic is common among the fundies who believe that any alcohol consumption is of the devil, and that anyone who drinks must be an alcoholic. 

12 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

Isn’t that one of their issues with Jill?  She (GASP) had a drink & shared it on social media. 

Hasn't JB himself owned up to the fact that he struggled with lashing out with his anger on his children?   If so it seems that should at least be an equal infraction to Jill's imbibing under their twisted accounting system.   

Oh no, wait, hold up, I forgot to take the deductions for penis and headship so obviously my math was wonky.   My bad.

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Tuxcat

Tuxcat

(edited)
17 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Boob never mentioned physical abuse during his spiels against JL. Verbal abuse was implied when Boob talked about his beer drinking. From the speeches I've heard, JL was a recreational beer drinker (a couple beers while working on his cars), but  Boob blew it up as if he was a full blown alcoholic. This tactic is common among the fundies who believe that any alcohol consumption is of the devil, and that anyone who drinks must be an alcoholic. 

Perhaps JB's overly controlling nature is reactionary. It's possible that he had a difficult relationship with his father and saw alcohol as a cause. Children don't always understand the biology of addiction, but they do add 2 and 2 - even if the equation is actually wrong. I'm not sure this is a complete case of JB spinning a story because of fundieism.  It could be JB reacting to what may have been difficult growing up. And it might be a root cause of why JB went so far off the rails as an adult. A massive attempt to keep control.  The fact that Mary was present for this end of life debacle - and she was seemingly okay with it - might be telling about what JL was really like. 

Edited by Tuxcat
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SMama

SMama

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8 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

The fact that Mary was present for this end of life debacle - and she was seemingly okay with it - might be telling about what JL was really like. 

I always was suspect about how Mary went from a seemingly normal woman who worked outside the home, wore pants, and very supportive of Amy’s music aspirations, to a woman in her sixties wearing skirts only even when riding a horse. Joy posted about watching The Price is Right with grandma and how it was their special time after Mary passed away (maybe the anniversary). But she lived in a home where there was no TV allowed. Perhaps I’m way off but it seems to be like JB pretty much guilted his mother into becoming Michelle. He never talked about his mother’s flaws because she bent to his will. JL, Deanna, and Amy became part of his testimony because of their lifestyles. The thing is if the family fell on hard times when JB was young it was also on Mary. However, Grandma Mary has been canonized because she, according to various Duggars, became a god botherer. I’m sure JL was no saint, Amy has admitted to some legal issues, but neither is JB. The man stomping out of the courtroom managed to gaslight thousands into buying the godly, perfect family act. In reality he ruled with an iron fist, and still tries to control his adult, married children. Jeremy admitted in the deposition that JB had conversations with him about not liking the way Jinger dressed. While his daughter had a new headship JB had the gall to try to strong arm his son in law into seeing things his way. Derick said something similar.
 

Sorry about the long post but the more I read about this vicious POS the more I think there’s to come out. Someone posted that Bobeye said during her podcast interview that the FF confessed to more than is public. Well, I can’t think what can be worst. 

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Minivanessa

Minivanessa

(edited)
15 hours ago, auntieminem said:

Not sure where to put this. It is an interview on the SoJo Files  with the Holts about JB &Michelle and what happened with Josh. This is part one and part two will come out later.  https://www.buzzsprout.com/1859745/10727052-duggar-super-source-jim-bobye-holt

Maybe this should have went to the Josh thread but since it is about the relationship with JB & M and their interactions I put it here. Can move if needs be. 

Saw this on Reddit. 

I listened to it but am not really up to trying to write a summary. It was a three-person conversation with Jim and Bobye and the podcaster which rambled and went off on some tangents. Harder to glean facts from that than if it had been an organized chronological description of events. Random takeaways for me:

The Holts were both more relatable, humorous, relaxed, and articulate than I'd expected. I didn't pick up on any dynamic that he was the headship and she was submissive. They said that by the time the molestations were discovered, they'd left IBLP although they were still close with the Duggars. 

Jim was very close friends with JB from when they were very young children, and Bobye knew Meech from her cheerleader days in school. The couples were very close and even had kids at about the same time, although of course the Holts didn't keep up with the Duggars' output. Bobye said that "we were pregnant together" a lot back then. 

The Holts are just OVER JimBob. They seem to think he got obsessed with TV fame, and lied to get and keep that. 

ETA: IMO there's a lot to unpack in that podcast, which is supposed to be Part 1 of 2, with the next part to drop in a few days. 

Edited by Jeeves
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Tuxcat

Tuxcat

(edited)
27 minutes ago, SMama said:

I always was suspect about how Mary went from a seemingly normal woman who worked outside the home, wore pants, and very supportive of Amy’s music aspirations, to a woman in her sixties wearing skirts only even when riding a horse. Joy posted about watching The Price is Right with grandma and how it was their special time after Mary passed away (maybe the anniversary). But she lived in a home where there was no TV allowed. Perhaps I’m way off but it seems to be like JB pretty much guilted his mother into becoming Michelle. He never talked about his mother’s flaws because she bent to his will. JL, Deanna, and Amy became part of his testimony because of their lifestyles. The thing is if the family fell on hard times when JB was young it was also on Mary. However, Grandma Mary has been canonized because she, according to various Duggars, became a god botherer. I’m sure JL was no saint, Amy has admitted to some legal issues, but neither is JB. The man stomping out of the courtroom managed to gaslight thousands into buying the godly, perfect family act. In reality he ruled with an iron fist, and still tries to control his adult, married children. Jeremy admitted in the deposition that JB had conversations with him about not liking the way Jinger dressed. While his daughter had a new headship JB had the gall to try to strong arm his son in law into seeing things his way. Derick said something similar.
 

Sorry about the long post but the more I read about this vicious POS the more I think there’s to come out. Someone posted that Bobeye said during her podcast interview that the FF confessed to more than is public. Well, I can’t think what can be worst. 

Right, but aren't we curious how JB became that person? Was it just innate? Or did he overcompensate due to his own experiences as a child. I just think there are probably some generational/environmental family stories that might help explain how JB got to be so completely off the rails.

Edited by Tuxcat
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cmr2014

cmr2014

9 minutes ago, SMama said:

I always was suspect about how Mary went from a seemingly normal woman who worked outside the home, wore pants, and very supportive of Amy’s music aspirations, to a woman in her sixties wearing skirts only even when riding a horse. Joy posted about watching The Price is Right with grandma and how it was their special time after Mary passed away (maybe the anniversary). But she lived in a home where there was no TV allowed. Perhaps I’m way off but it seems to be like JB pretty much guilted his mother into becoming Michelle. He never talked about his mother’s flaws because she bent to his will. JL, Deanna, and Amy became part of his testimony because of their lifestyles. The thing is if the family fell on hard times when JB was young it was also on Mary. However, Grandma Mary has been canonized because she, according to various Duggars, became a god botherer. I’m sure JL was no saint, Amy has admitted to some legal issues, but neither is JB. The man stomping out of the courtroom managed to gaslight thousands into buying the godly, perfect family act. In reality he ruled with an iron fist, and still tries to control his adult, married children. Jeremy admitted in the deposition that JB had conversations with him about not liking the way Jinger dressed. While his daughter had a new headship JB had the gall to try to strong arm his son in law into seeing things his way. Derick said something similar.
 

Sorry about the long post but the more I read about this vicious POS the more I think there’s to come out. Someone posted that Bobeye said during her podcast interview that the FF confessed to more than is public. Well, I can’t think what can be worst. 

I think that JB and JL are very much alike, with the noteworthy exception that I don't think JL treated his wife well.

The impression that I get from the little we have heard of him is that JL was loud, boastful, a bit loose with the truth, and not great with money (but thought he was). Sound like anyone named JB that we know?

I also vaguely recall that JL drank (how much, we don't know), cheated on his wife, and may have been physically abusive to his wife and children. JB is, IMO, a thoroughly awful human being, but I do believe that he loves his wife, and loved his mother.

JL's financial shenanigans created, I'm sure, a great deal of stress and insecurity in his home. I don't doubt that JB's questionable financial decisions have done the same, but I don't think he (JB) sees it that way.

I think that the narrative that JB has wrapped around the unhappy aspects of his childhood is that JL didn't believe enough in Jesus, or in the right way, or in the right Jesus . . .

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

2 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

I think that JB and JL are very much alike, with the noteworthy exception that I don't think JL treated his wife well.

The impression that I get from the little we have heard of him is that JL was loud, boastful, a bit loose with the truth, and not great with money (but thought he was). Sound like anyone named JB that we know?

I also vaguely recall that JL drank (how much, we don't know), cheated on his wife, and may have been physically abusive to his wife and children. JB is, IMO, a thoroughly awful human being, but I do believe that he loves his wife, and loved his mother.

JL's financial shenanigans created, I'm sure, a great deal of stress and insecurity in his home. I don't doubt that JB's questionable financial decisions have done the same, but I don't think he (JB) sees it that way.

I think that the narrative that JB has wrapped around the unhappy aspects of his childhood is that JL didn't believe enough in Jesus, or in the right way, or in the right Jesus . . .

I agree with this, except for financially. I think JB has handled his money wisely with the one exception of financing his JB!, back in the day.

Natalie68

Natalie68

On 6/2/2022 at 6:43 AM, Notabug said:

But, that would've cost money, they already had an office chair that he could use for free!

Surprised they didn't strap him to the chair with a belt

On 6/2/2022 at 7:56 AM, anyasmom said:

JB and M probably wouldn't have wanted the hospice's social worker to come either.  Who knows what he or she might have found or observed?

Mandatory reporters

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SMama

SMama

53 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

Surprised they didn't strap him to the chair with a belt

Mandatory reporters

I did a lot of voluntary on call intake for CPS before SBaby came home. APS didn’t have as many workers so I had to be trained to also take their calls. A call of a rolling dying man would have warranted a welfare check, with an APS SW along. If only to offer services. People would always tell me they couldn’t work at CPS but would consider APS. My rationale for accepting the CPS offer was simple. It is much more difficult to help an abused adult than an abused child. Those calls helped me make it through some moments of doubt.  

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satrunrose

satrunrose

I think the difficulty with figuring out JL and his conduct as outsiders is the oh-so-weird fundy morality. They are so aggressively horrified by things that everyone else sees as normal or only slightly off and so blasé about things that are considered beyond the pale by anyone else. (See Jill Rod's reaction to seeing 2 green haired women with children vs children beaten to death by "parents" following the Pearl method.) 

Considering how we've seen JB and ofJB react to hand holding and pants vs FF's crimes and misdemeanours, I don't think there's anyway of knowing whether JL was a guy who liked a beer or two, went to church infrequently and didn't believe that his son was God's Chosen Patriarch, or (maybe equally likely) an abusive serial womanizer. Deanna and Amy might be more reliable sources on this, but they've got agendas too. 

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Nysha

Nysha

9 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I listened to it but am not really up to trying to write a summary. It was a three-person conversation with Jim and Bobye and the podcaster which rambled and went off on some tangents. Harder to glean facts from that than if it had been an organized chronological description of events. Random takeaways for me:

The Holts were both more relatable, humorous, relaxed, and articulate than I'd expected. I didn't pick up on any dynamic that he was the headship and she was submissive. They said that by the time the molestations were discovered, they'd left IBLP although they were still close with the Duggars. 

Jim was very close friends with JB from when they were very young children, and Bobye knew Meech from her cheerleader days in school. The couples were very close and even had kids at about the same time, although of course the Holts didn't keep up with the Duggars' output. Bobye said that "we were pregnant together" a lot back then. 

The Holts are just OVER JimBob. They seem to think he got obsessed with TV fame, and lied to get and keep that. 

ETA: IMO there's a lot to unpack in that podcast, which is supposed to be Part 1 of 2, with the next part to drop in a few days. 

I listened to it 1.5 speed b/c they rambled a lot. It sounds like JB lied to them over and over about getting help for Pestilence and protecting the girls. 

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cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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