S13.E10: Muse On The Street

[Julia]

I do wonder why ANYONE is surprised by Korina's super-bitchy comments this episode.  It's been my theory all along that she's been making them about EVERY contestant and the show made it seem like she was almost exclusively focusing on Sandhya, to force that storyline.

I think they all do it. I just think that Korinna's got Michelle issues and maybe doesn't realize that you can't be as rude in front of a camera as you are in private. The rest of the contestants are just well socialized enough to be hypocritical about it. "I'm really concerned that [x]'s outfit looks like it was assembled by a spastic gibbon out of the dumpster behind a 7/11" sounds much less hostile. Means the same, though.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Julia

[slensam]

I was starting to like Korina a bit there but damn does she take to making these bitchy comments like a fish to water. I don't know if I like anybody on the show this season which is a first.The closest is probably Amanda because she's clueless and goofy. A lot of jerks and nonentities. And now I know that Char is not going to be Justin part II. That was awful She's designing for herself as if she's going to the club. I'm surprised she didn't put peplum on the little girl doll challenge. I wanna like somebody!

[cattykit]

 

I think the show chickened out because of Ven being an asshole to the "real" contestant that season so instead this episode we get the contestants choosing ballet dancers, beautiful German women, oddly perfect looking kindergarten teachers, etc.

I don't think so at all.  Last season they had so-called "superfans" who were preassigned to the designers.  IIRC, not one of the designers was rude or hateful toward their less-than-model models.

 

 

I just noticed this episode when Alexander packed up his sketch book....they never gave them those HP sketchbooks, did they? Another lost sponsor? 

Yep, which likely means no HP design-your-own fabric challenge, a perennial favorite.  Also they lost the Go Debit card so they are back to mandatory budgets.  Leaving us with Red Robin and Mary Kay.

 

I noticed during the runway show that all the "before" pictures were head shots, instead of full-body showing the complete transformation.  Again, I suppose, to emphasize the hair and makeup, but since the makeup was generally so garish, no favors done there.

[Beden]

 

Mary Kay's not bad makeup. My niece sells it, so I have some around. They have color that look natural on me, which isn't easy to find. I think the problem here is that they're putting women who should be in pinks and corals in berries and browns because they're trying to be dramatic and they just don't make the right products for that.

Okay, I'm not a makeup wearer but it seems to me that the problem could have been with the makeup artists who were working on the women, actually choosing the colors and all of that, not the fault of the various products. Maybe?

[terrymct]

I think a lot of it was just the makeup.  I don't use Mary Kay, but every single time they have shown a model wearing the makeup it just looks awful.  I don't think it translates well to TV, or they just don't have enough colors, or the colors aren't nuanced enough, mixed correctly, or are not pigmented enough so you have to put a crapload on before you see a color payoff.  I think they are trying to go for a different demographic with their sponsorship of the show, but I'm not entirely sure that the market they are trying to capture will ever see their product as super high end.  And frankly, there are a lot of other higher end makeup lines with a better pedigree, I just can't quite understand why Mary Kay is even trying to capture that market, because it is so oversaturated.  And they certainly aren't going to convince anyone when their makeup always looks terrible.  I just don't get it.

 

 

A lot of the make up in Mary Kay's own ads looks terrible!   It seems to be best suited for more subdued looks, once they start using color around the eyes it goes bad quickly.

 

I wish the sponsors would make more than one or two ads for the season.  The friggin yogurt commercial. Aldo keeps replaying that one.   Mary Kay both last season and this one.  I'm sick and tired of them.  Why not four ads and rotate them.   I came to hate that auto tune yogurt ad with a mad passion.  The same for that Mary Kay one last year where they showed they could make one model look terrible in a variety of ways.

[Julia]

That, or they allowed the clients too much of a voice in the picking of colors. There is no way that Mary Kay didn't have a more flattering shade of lip color for Alexander's model; that she was wearing a lip color as godawful as one she picked on her own suggests to me that she either resisted changing or was asked for her input. I do not believe a professional make-up artist, empowered with the same eyes as the rest of us, thought that was a good shade for her. The first thing I wanted to do with her in the park was scrub that off her mouth.

 

God, thank you. That was truly terrible. They took an attractive young woman with really pretty eyes and between the sharpied-on groucho eyebrows and the lipstick that somehow managed to take over the lower half of her face while it actually made her lips look smaller, they effectively drew attention away from all her best features.

[RealityCowgirl]

One thing I will say about this sad group:

Alexander might be flummoxed by real breasts (since his own model's tiny chest threw him in an early challenge), but I have a hard time imagining any of these remaining designers being deliberately mean to real women standing in front of them. Even Korina. Actually, any of the designers but Hernan.

 

Not to say that most of them wouldn't make something butt-ugly. But they wouldn't have been mean while doing so.

Edited September 27, 2014 by RealityCowgirl

[lucindabelle]

You really do find actresses and dancers in the park on a sunny summer day at lunchtime.

I agree the mary Kay makeup looked weird which seems odd because in real life it always looked soft to me.

[Oldernowiser]

I'm wondering if they didn't use PR's own makeup people for the "real-life" models. I'm sorry, but PR's makeup people are and always have been, atrocious. For years, every judge looked like an oompa loompa, even Heidi, and the foundation/pancake whatever was always much too heavy for the lighting.

I'd be surprised if Mary Kay is springing for the caliber of makeup artists they used in the L'Oreal Paris Makeup Studio. At least back then, the models looked good.

[Kromm]

You really do find actresses and dancers in the park on a sunny summer day at lunchtime.

Central Park, sure.  It's a bit rarer in the Village, I think.  Most of those actresses and dancers live out in Brooklyn--I can't see them really being able to afford anywhere around Washington Square Park.  Unless they're ALSO NYU students as well.

[theatremouse]

"I believe you did the best you could under the circumstances."  Tim, you do realize that the circumstances were the same for everyone, don't you?

I'm assuming Tim meant the circumstance of having told him directly that he must start over. Usually when designers choose to start over it's because they realized they botched it, not because Tim explicitly told them to. I mean, sure he could've chosen not to take Tim's advice, and he'd have lost either way, but that's how I took the "circumstances" comment. (ignoring completely for the moment that either way said "circumstances" are entirely because Alexander himself made two fugly outfits)

[knitorpurl]

I think Char's outfit is grown up, "rock and roll" version of Sandhya's ruffled onesie from the week before. Unfortunate for an adult or a 9 year old. 

 

I love the idea that someone here came up with for all the designers to get the 10 additional minutes- that would have been the only really acceptable solution. I also was irritated with Char's blaming of her client about the zipper incident- her assertion that "she just ripped the zipper out" was ridiculous and insulting. Guess she should have used Sandyha's snap strip instead. 

[lucindabelle]

In my experience you see moms, workers and grown ups hanging in Central Park, whereas artsy types hang out downtown.

Ditto for union square. You could walk in and find a dozen gorgeous people just hanging out any sunny day. Dd we actually learn where the models lived? I thought at least one was from Europe. Sorry just don't think they were plants, have spent too much time there to think that. The women weren't exceptional, just nice looking. Alexanders model in particular looked very much like the kind of girl you see hanging out in the village. Actually if you went into the Starbucks on Astor place you'd find twice as many gorgeous types even faster...

Kindergarten teacher whose husband is in a band... Def more wash square than Central Park. The thing about Central Park is that if you go there you're making a commitment to go to the park, but Washington square park is very small, you might be here in between shopping or having lunch etc. It's not for joggers etc. It's much better for people watching, as is union square.

Central Park has more professionals, lawyers etc ... You want people with flexible schedules, you head downtown.

Edited September 27, 2014 by lucindabelle

[sinkwriter]

 

Central Park has more professionals, lawyers etc

 

And lots of tourists, I'd imagine. Especially in the summer. Tourists who are only in NYC for a short period of time, already have plans for sightseeing and other pursuits and whose schedules wouldn't permit taking (wasting) two or three days being a guinea pig for Project Runway.

[theatremouse]

I'm just guessing: they filmed in the park and "picked" the models a week or two before this episode's challenge. It's just editing that made it seem like everything happened two days straight.

[beaker73]

I don't think so at all.  Last season they had so-called "superfans" who were preassigned to the designers.  IIRC, not one of the designers was rude or hateful toward their less-than-model models.

 

Yep, which likely means no HP design-your-own fabric challenge, a perennial favorite.  Also they lost the Go Debit card so they are back to mandatory budgets.  Leaving us with Red Robin and Mary Kay.

 

I noticed during the runway show that all the "before" pictures were head shots, instead of full-body showing the complete transformation.  Again, I suppose, to emphasize the hair and makeup, but since the makeup was generally so garish, no favors done there.

Damn. You're right. The design your own textile challenge is one of my favorites. Bummer.

Does anyone remember a few seasons back during the makeover challenge someone had a real mousy woman with long, long hair (like hair that hadn't been cut in 10 years) and they cut it and put her in this fabulous gown? Now that was a makeover. She was stunning and they won. I'm trying to remember who the designer was.

[KFC]

I'm guessing the producers put out some sort of pre-taping casting call for women wanting to be on a design reality show, had them sign a waiver and them told them to hang out in the park and that they'd be approached by the designers. Which of course would naturally attract aspiring actresses, dancers, etc.

 

Just logistically speaking, I can't imagine production wanting to hedge its bets and roll footage all day on the off chance that each designer would land a muse. So they probably had to stack the deck with plants just for time's sake. You'd have to figure that if this took place in "real" time, even after someone might say yes to a designer, they'd possibly back out after hearing about non-disclosure agreements, the taping schedule, etc. 

 

It reminds me of a "clothes off your back" park challenge on an episode of All Stars. A few of the designers just "happened" to stumble upon male models who quickly disrobed to their undies. I know it's model-filled New York and all, but I didn't buy for a second that the encounters were spontaneous.

Edited September 27, 2014 by KFC

[Nonlinear]

For a design show that is supposed to be about creativity and offering something different, I am underwhelmed. Most of the designs are uninteresting, uninspiring, and not very original.

 

I wish to be fascinated and amused by designs.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Nonlinear

[Kromm]

I'm guessing the producers put out some sort of pre-taping casting call for women wanting to be on a design reality show, had them sign a waiver and them told them to hang out in the park and that they'd be approached by the designers. Which of course would naturally attract aspiring actresses, dancers, etc.

 

Just logistically speaking, I can't imagine production wanting to hedge its bets and roll footage all day on the off chance that each designer would land a muse. So they probably had to stack the deck with plants just for time's sake. You'd have to figure that if this took place in "real" time, even after someone might say yes to a designer, they'd possibly back out after hearing about non-disclosure agreements, the taping schedule, etc. 

This is almost certainly how this happened.  They weren't going to drop a bunch of pro models down in a park and lie about it, but they definitely wanted at least SOME control of the situation so there were enough fairly thin, reasonably cooperative pseudo-real-ish people around.  Preferably, I bet with TV friendly manners and backstories (thus, ballerina, actress, etc.), in case it wound up being necessary.  They didn't have to be beautiful. Just all medium-sized, cooperative, and wanting to be on TV.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Kromm

[RedheadZombie]

Korina has a beautiful sweet smile.  She must use it to lure people in before she eviscerates them.

 

I know I'm the only Amanda liker here, but next week Char (who mean-girled Amanda in the past) is shown going to Amanda for comfort.  I think that says something good about Amanda.

[millennium]

I was starting to like Korina a bit there but damn does she take to making these bitchy comments like a fish to water. I don't know if I like anybody on the show this season which is a first.The closest is probably Amanda because she's clueless and goofy. A lot of jerks and nonentities. And now I know that Char is not going to be Justin part II. That was awful She's designing for herself as if she's going to the club. I'm surprised she didn't put peplum on the little girl doll challenge. I wanna like somebody!

 

I can understand having a nemesis or a rival.   It's a natural part of any competition.   But Korina cuts down everyone.  Nobody is as good as she is.  Nobody else deserves to win.   She alone has earned the right to be there.  (And did you know southwestern designs have a lot in common with Native American designs?)

 

I hate it when Korina (or any other designer) begins their criticism with "I'm worried about (fill in another designer's name)."   That implies concern and suggests they won't be thrumming with glee when (fill in another designer's name) gets auf'ed.  

 

Did Alexander snub Char when he was saying his goodbyes?   She was standing there as though waiting her turn to embrace him, and I was waiting for that awkward moment, but I think the camera cut away.

 

Odd to say, but Amanda has been growing on me.   Not her designs.  They suck.  But she seems far less cocky than she was at the outset.   She's even laughing at herself now, which I have always thought is a noble quality.   It's like she's realized she can't win so she's just going to enjoy the ride.

[zillabreeze]

BarneySays-Tim's red nose and splotchy face make me think he might be enjoying too many adult beverages.

Poeticlicensed- Mary Kay makeup IS very heavy & greasy. The colors are always a few years behind. Here in Dallas, home of Mary Kay, it's pretty much accepted as the makeup for the 50's + crowd.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Am I the only person who didn't mind the design that Alexander started with, that almost sent Tim into shock?   It had a mix of green and yellow prints right?  And Cher Horowitz is a fashion icon of mine so I don't mind that comparison.

 

And I don't mind Amanda either.  She just has this 'fake' way of talking that I think she genuinely doesn't mean to come off in a phony way, but it strikes other people oddly.  I did hate Michelle so much, but I'll have to go back and watch that season again.  I can confidently say that Amanda without Michelle works wonders for her.  

 

I don't think so at all.  Last season they had so-called "superfans" who were preassigned to the designers.  IIRC, not one of the designers was rude or hateful toward their less-than-model models.

 

Okay then.  So the show made a stupid decision for zero reason?  I vastly prefer the actual real women challenges where the women are diverse in age, look, body shape.  Like that challenge where the women lost a bunch of weight and needed new clothes.  Even the prom dress challenge from Season 4 was cool, though I'm sure very difficult.  If you want to design for women that diversity is what you might actually have to deal with.

[PrincessSteel]

I shouted at my TV when Nina was talking about the preschool teacher's outfit being inappropriate and said something like "What if a parent of one of her students SAW HER?" Saw her doing what, exactly? Having legs?

[Calamity Jane]

Korina has a beautiful sweet smile.  She must use it to lure people in before she eviscerates them.

 

I know I'm the only Amanda liker here, but next week Char (who mean-girled Amanda in the past) is shown going to Amanda for comfort.  I think that says something good about Amanda.

Not the only one who likes Amanda.  I enjoy what Kini has to say, but he's more of a jokester, whereas I think Amanda offers thoughtful and clear-eyed commentary, in her off-beat, rather sarcastic way.  She's really the only one I'm interested in hearing from at this point.  

[paramitch]

The one thing I thought was really odd about this episode that I haven't seen commented on was the fact that, in the morning, they all had ONE hour for hair and makeup -- not the usual two. I also thought the designers seemed to look quietly displeased (but didn't address it).  Is it just me? I know there have been two hours for hair and makeup on most other challenges.

 

It just seemed unfair to me, and to exacerbate the existing ridiculousness of one-day challenges. Now they get less time the next day too?

 

Meanwhile, I like Amanda, and thought her dress was okay, if not great, this week. But I liked that she knew that, she owned it, and she seemed to try so hard to be respectful and supportive of her model. I also loved how often Amanda referred to her model as beautiful, and it seemed so unforced and genuine. Either in her previous season or this one, I don't see the bitchiness that others seem to see -- I think she's self-confident and honest, but she also uses that honesty on herself. We've also seen many moments in the workroom now where Amanda is genuinely kind or supportive of fellow designers in a quiet, non-showy way.

 

Regarding Tim's appearance: I know in the past Tim has been a spokesman for psoriasis support/resource groups and had said it was because his sister suffered from it. However, I would swear - and of course, I now can't find a source for it, bleargh - that Tim had acknowledged having a skin condition (psoriasis or something else) that made it appear blotchy. 

 

Tim has been very forthcoming about that. Evidently he has a condition (and an allergy/sensitivity) that means that he is rarely able to wear makeup. This means that on camera he sometimes looks blotchy, shiny or uneven because, basically, he's the only one not wearing makeup at all.

[One Tough Cookie]

Regarding Tim's appearance: I know in the past Tim has been a spokesman for psoriasis support/resource groups and had said it was because his sister suffered from it. However, I would swear - and of course, I now can't find a source for it, bleargh - that Tim had acknowledged having a skin condition (psoriasis or something else) that made it appear blotchy

 

 

I always thought he had roseacea .

[Glade]

Tim's over the top drama is not constructive, at all; he's starting to sound like some of the judges, looking for a bitchy sound-bite instead of actually helping.   It is very rare on this show for a designer to successfully scrap everything and start over, so they should not be encouraged to do so.  Alexander could have taken off the yellow patch and used that fabric for a belt, perhaps made the black into a jacket or something.  But he wound up with a sort of catholic school/girl scouts uniform in the end and it was really bad.  I can kind of understand Tim wanting to protect a pre-school teacher from being further defamed by her appearance on the show, but Char still deserved to go home--apparently she will next week, though. So whatever. 

 

I didn't really care about Korina's comments, personally.  I know they all say a bunch of things about themselves and other designers in the confessionals.  I find her very easy to ignore compared with past PR villains who went around having toxic meltdowns and shouting in people's faces, etc.   And I had to laugh about Amanda's comment about not getting a third chance--just wait for All-stars season 5/6, and I'm sure we'll see her again though she still won't win. 

Edited September 27, 2014 by Glade

[cattykit]

 

Mary Kay makeup IS very heavy & greasy. The colors are always a few years behind. Here in Dallas, home of Mary Kay, it's pretty much accepted as the makeup for the 50's + crowd. 

You mean the 1950s, of course.  Not us beautiful, elegantly seasoned women in our 50s who have only lost our youth but not our taste... 

[WearyTraveler]

Huh.  I guess I did miss an episode.  Thanks, Chattygal.

 

I think you might have actually missed two.  There was the episode where Char got eliminated and Tim sent her to the workroom to pack her stuff, and then the episode following that had Tim saying he was going to use his save on Char and bringing her back in the competition.

 

And if her zipper broke, that's part of whether or not your design and dressmaking was up to par. 

 

I don't particularly like Char, I think she's pretty immature for her age, and her designs are either horrible or dated, IMO (I mean, Joan Collins, THE Queen of peplum, wouldn't be caught dead in one of Char's outfits, I'm sure), but, as the daughter of a seamstress who made all my party dresses since I was born, I can attest to the fact sometimes zippers break through no fault of the designer or the seamstress.  New zippers even more so than old ones.  I have had to drive my mother to the 

store countless times because a faulty zipper on a dress she was fixing or making for someone, broke, and the dress wasn't even on a person or a dress form.  The ones they use for gowns and the so called invisible zippers are particularly flimsy.

 

And my mom is an awesome seamstress.  When I was younger I used to flip through Vogue and other fashion magazines and ask my mom to make me the designer dresses on their pages, with a few tweaks to tone down the runway drama. And they always came out perfect.  Even though I have a less than perfect body (big boobs, big hips, a bit of a high waist).

 

I wonder how many designers have had fashion emergencies on runway day and had to do some quick fixes because something happens to break?

 

I remember one time on the show, during fashion week, when one of the designers was talking about all the stuff they had packed to take to the runway show and they mentioned extra zippers, buttons, thread, needles, scissors, an iron... Anything can happen backstage and the designers usually know this, so, they try to be as prepared as they can.  Models can get sick or injured or simply don't show, and the garments have to be fitted to the replacement models, heels can rip a hem, etc.  I think all designers (famous and otherwise) have had emergencies on runway day, no matter how much time they had or how much planning they did beforehand.

 

I feel like Mychael Knight from Season 3 used to make a lot of short shorts outfits (like Char), but his fit much better. It's been a long time since I've seen that season but I can recall him doing something very Pam Grier / Foxy Brown-like that I think was a big hit with the judges. This outfit by Char, however, was regrettably not that sophisticated. 

 

The challenge was to modernize fashion icons and Knight got Pam Grier (they had to race each other to pick the picture of the icon they wanted), and he did make hot pants that were all the rage with the judges.

 

I'm still trying to figure out which person Tim Gunn pissed off because they're really crafting a storyline of him being not the greatest mentor and trying to sell it it hardcore now.

 

It's been said on these boards before, but I guess it bears repeating, Tim Gunn is a producer on the show (as is Heidi), which gives him editing authority.  So, he didn't piss anybody off.  If he wanted something cut from the show, he has enough authority to get it off the show.

 

First of all, the producers made the decision, not Tim. But in any event, once the decision was made, it should have been conveyed to them as a decision, not in the form of a question. That would have eliminated any (or most) of the bitterness.

 

See above.  Tim is a producer. Also, I think if they had told the designers it was a decision made without consulting them, there would have been even more bitching.

 

I don't understand why the judges seem to think that pre-school teachers might not want to get their freak on.

 

I teach English for Speakers of Other Languages (ESOL) at a private language academy.  My students run the gamut from 4 to 40, but the bulk is children ages 4-14.  It's not that teachers of small children don't want to get their freak on, but it's a tricky thing.  I'm very conscious of the fact that some students look up to me and want to imitate what I do, particularly the youngest ones and then there are the parents... ummh, the parents (apologies to all the parents out there)!.

 

Some don't seem to even take an interest on their children's education, they just drop them off and pick them up, and don't even want to stay and discuss their child's progress when we hand out grades; others are way too involved and want to know everything that goes on in class, they show up 15 minutes earlier and peek inside your classroom, they monopolize you (or try to) and ask you how the child is doing every single day of class.  And so on.  There are all kinds.  And they complain to management about the smallest things you can imagine.  I had two children (5 years old) who were always joking with each other in class, playing games, laughing, etc. Then one day one of the moms came in to ask that we don't allow them to sit together because her child said the other little boy bothered him.

They judge you inside and outside the classroom.  I take the train and walk through the town from the train station to get to work and I'm always conscious of what I wear and how I talk to people because some are gossipy and love to complain and criticize. I know it's wrong of them, and that I should be able to wear what I want, as long as it's not, you know, totally indecent, but sometimes you just don't want to make waves for silly stuff like clothing.  I like to pick my battles according to my priorities, and fashion is low on the list.  The model was wearing shorts in the park when Char asked her to participate, but they were not as tight or as short as the ones Char designed.

 

I think Char's aesthetic is too much on hoochie side for my liking or the judges. 

 

I admit my opinion of Amanda rose when she said re: Zippergate "we voted and said it was o.k."  so basically, STFU because nobody spoke up.  I admire her for saying that.  

 

I agree; in spite of her faults, Amanda seems to behave like the most adult person in there.

 

I just wish I had as much free time as these people in Washington Square Park who can drop everything at a moment's notice and appear on Project Runway for three days.

 

I'm sure it wasn't a full three day commitment. They measured them and talked to them in the park.  Add to that producers taking them through the paperwork and explaining the requirements of the challenge and you get probably two hours, three tops for day one.  On day two they showed up for the fitting, so, perhaps another 2-3 hours.  On day three they had the show, which was probably very time consuming, so, let's say 6 hours.  In between days one and two, and two and three, they could have changed appointments, and reorganized their schedules.  

 

I've broken a zipper when trying to cram myself into a garment that was too small.  Do we know for sure that the zipper on Char's outfit didn't split because it was poorly fitted?  It looked fine in the end but I wonder if there was some change made to the seam when the zipper was replaced.  Don't know enough about sewing to be sure, but that's how they fixed the dress when I broke that zipper.

 

To take out from the seams would have taken longer than 10 minutes, and it would have shown on the clothes on close inspection.  Sawing the seam is five seconds but undoing the sawing machine's work on an existing seam? Time consuming, delicate work.  That's why seamstress and designers fit you before they do the machine work.

[anonymiss]

Posen would be the one I'd like to hang out with at a party.  As for his role on the show?  He's kind of a let down after Kors who was really spot on with his comments most of the time...and funny too. 

I don't miss Kors and his lack of substance and puerile humour. He was all about hyperbole to get the best soundbite for attention. I'm really enjoying Zac's thoughtful, more technical critiques and how invested he is, evident in how genuinely excited he gets about designers with exceptional technical ability like Kini.

 

What I do eternally miss is Bravo's production quality. They knew how to edit for snappiness. That's the edge that's missing from this vanilla bloatfest.

Edited September 28, 2014 by anonymiss

[LotusFlower]

See above. Tim is a producer. Also, I think if they had told the designers it was a decision made without consulting them, there would have been even more bitching.

The producers make decisions (including changes) without "consulting" the contestants all the time, and they have to just suck it up. Even if they bitch, so what? It was just so passive aggressive. I wish one of the designers had voted no - then what would they have done? Did it have to be 100%, or just the majority? We'll never know.

[dialyn]

 

I don't miss Kors and his lack of substance and puerile humour. He was all about hyperbole to get the best soundbite for attention. I'm really enjoying Zac's thoughtful, more technical critiques and how invested he is, evident in how genuinely excited he gets about designers with exceptional technical ability like Kini.

I agree.  Zac actually looks at how the garment is made from the point of view of someone who knows how construction is done. I don't think Kors did that....he and Nina were always too busy coming up with their next snarky comment. Yes, Zac makes some comments too, but that doesn't seem to be his main interest (and, no, I don't think his interest is in man-handling the models).

 

Now that others have mentioned it, I do recall Tim talking about his skin condition on a radio show. It certainly shows how easily gossip gets started, however, when substance abuse is suggested without much in the way of proof other than a skin problem that any of us could suffer from.

 

Personally, Tim might benefit from taking a vacation from the Project Runway universe. Probably he wants to continue for the financial stability of it, but he looks tired to me.

[roctavia]

That's fine, but the fact is Char got an exception that would never have been given to any other designer in any other circumstance. Posen's bull about "it happens" is something he'd never had said if the model had been a model. Char was given dispensation that no other designer has gotten for mishaps/reveals. The most she should have gotten - given the non-professional nature of her model - was a minute to find something to wrap around her client's waist to hide the broken zipper opening (the same as other designers in other challenges have used accessories and flourishes to camouflage crappy construction or a lack of finish). And the judges should have been made aware of the issue up front, not as an afterthought. It was a major flaw in her garment and she should have been part of a double-auf.

 

But it wasn't necessarily a construction defect or problem with the garment. The model, not being experienced pulled the zipper off the track as opposed to the zipper breaking due to poor construction. I'm sure the regular models realize what type of zippers are being used and char didn't even think to warn her model not to unzip it too far... so it was just a bad luck sort of situation. The fact that Char fixed it in 5 minutes (didn't she say 5, so not even using the whole ten minutes) indicates to me that it wasn't a glaring construction problem.

 

I think if this had happened to any other designer with similar circumstances, they would have been given the same chance to fix things. If this had been a regular PR model, then I do think Tim wouldn't have done anything and they would have had to find a way to hold the clothes together enough for the model to walk... but this was a special circumstance with a non- professional model. It looked to me like the zipper went up the entire side of the outfit as well, so not just the shorts... that would have left her very exposed.

 

I also don't mind that the judges weren't told until the end, contextually it might have been harder for them to get what exactly the problem was before the runway, and they also aren't supposed to know whose outfit is whose when the models walk, so that would have impacted the anonymous runway or the judges would have spent the whole time trying to figure out whose zipper was messed up.

 

 

As to what others have said about Tim being a producer... yes, he has producer credit and I'm sure gets some say, but that is no guarantee that he has any major say in big decisions about stuff like this or other big issues. He serves as a mouth piece for the producers, but not all producers are created equal. I'm not saying that he has no influence, but just because he and Heidi are producers doesn't mean they have the final say on everything.

[roctavia]

Well... I suppose they have cared a whole heck of a lot less about construction this season... or maybe even in the last few seasons... but especially this season with the whole... It looks like crap because it's poorly made, but it was creative and different!! YAY!! 

 

So the judges, to me, don't appear to have much consistency when it comes to their judging criteria. Which is why I think so many of us have been baffled time and again but what they like and don't like...

[Kromm]

It's been said on these boards before, but I guess it bears repeating, Tim Gunn is a producer on the show (as is Heidi), which gives him editing authority.  So, he didn't piss anybody off.  If he wanted something cut from the show, he has enough authority to get it off the show.

 

 

See above.  Tim is a producer. Also, I think if they had told the designers it was a decision made without consulting them, there would have been even more bitching.

This is a "sort of" thing.  He and Heidi are producers (Tim only added recently), but it's more of a sign of them being given some partial ownership profits-wise to keep them onboard the show than it is actual power.  

 

The Weinsteins still control the show (or rather whatever actual showrunner they put on it).  Now there's little chance the Weinsteins would WANT to burn Tim on air, but it's also probably NOT the case that Tim has any real control over the edit. At best, if he has a specific concern about something he THINKS may wind up on the show that shouldn't I'm sure he can take it up the chain, but typically, I doubt he sees the actual edited footage until broadcast.

[bjm]

If they (Tim and the producers) are trying to be so considerate by not having Char's model be exposed on the runway, why do they then film her in the workroom with her flank hanging out for the whole viewing world to see? And why isn't she wearing underwear? Wouldn't the peplum/top froufrou cover up underwear lines?

[lucindabelle]

On scripted shows, producer just means a salary bump. I may be different in reali. But story editor etc, all just words for writers.

A kind of casting call in advance certainly makes sense. Though I have to say I was in Washington square park today and it was crammed... Unseasonably warm and everybody was out. Not only could you find 10 gorgeous women in the park you could find me every 20 feet. Ditto spring street and prince street, gorgeous people, young, shopping at boutiques, much more hip and clothes conscious than midtown set.

I also didn't loathe Alexander's dress and think he should have tried to redo it, that said, THE ugliest? Worse than Emilio's string and washer? Worse than scuba thingy? I don't think so.

I wish I had someone to root for,

[KimberStormer]

I find myself wishing Sandhya was there for the zipper thing.  Would she have said no?  Probably not, but she's the only one I can possibly imagine doing so.  She was the one who took all the money when they were allowed back to Mood; I think she has a certain socially clueless bullheadedness and eye for an advantage.  And I can imagine a reaction of horror and disbelief in the edit about how she's "playing the game" and selfish etc.  In this case I think Tim put the other designers in an impossible position--no, they could not have said no--but Amanda was right, what's done was done, just move on.

 

For whatever reason my computer always seems to crap out just around the time when the runway is beginning so the part where Heidi was complaining about not starting was very choppy, so maybe I missed why it seemed fake.  I certainly didn't feel any fakeness when she was like "no no no you can't get away from me Tim" when he tried to run away with the models before explaining the delay.

 

Hopefully Korina's performance tonight answered the folks who say they can't understand all the Korina hate.   Every comment that came from her mouth was either critical of the other designers or dripping with self-adulation.    It's not that she says anything truly rotten, but it's like the death of a thousand cuts -- it just adds up, especially combined with those shitty little expressions of hers when other designers are being critiqued.

 

I've never not understood the Korina hate, I just think you're all playing suckers for the editors.  And as I've said before (please do show me if I'm wrong), the beloved fan-favorite Christian Siriano, to my best recollection, never said a single positive word about another designer.  Korina is obviously willing to give them the critiques they're looking for--but so what?  What makes Christian so much better?  His talent?  Fine, then say Korina is a shitty designer (I would not disagree), not THE WORST HUMAN EVER because she gives her honest opinion about the other people's mediocre looks.  I think you should never, ever trust a single "reaction shot" in any reality show.  If you can see both the thing being reacted to and the reaction, that's one thing, but a cutaway to Korina smiling when Alexander is being critiqued?  It could have been filmed at literally any point during the episode.

 

1. Korina - ugh, generally I would think editing could be the culprit, but after her asshole facebook post regarding Sandaya last week, I think this is just who she is.   

 

Well, here's one bit of Korina hate that I truly do not understand.  Korina posted that she likes Sandhya and they are friends (which Sandhya confirmed) and they are both strong confident women, and people are being misled by editing.  What does this prove about who Korina really is?  I know fans hate it when people don't kiss their ass, but that seems irrelevant to the point to me.

 

But it still would have been a greater aesthetic challenge if honeyed picked older women, boys, etc. That's what gets me, these designers don't seem to have any joy and fun in hugh alleging themselves, they seem focused ONLY on survival in the least challenging way possible. It does not inspire.

Also noticed no women of color. Feh.

 

I absolutely agree with this.  My very first thought (I usually can't help but imagining what I would do in the challenges) was "go find an older lady with white hair".  But everyone picked gorgeous young white women.  Super boring.  And nobody looked any different--as someone said above, brilliantly, the judges were trying to convince the muses that they'd received makeovers.

 

Am I the only person who didn't mind the design that Alexander started with, that almost sent Tim into shock?   It had a mix of green and yellow prints right?  

 

I'm with you.  It was weird as hell, but it was at least something.  Perhaps it was too "avant-garde" for the "real woman" challenge, but so what?  I think it was much better than the big nothing he sent down the runway.

 

I don't miss Kors and his lack of substance and puerile humour. He was all about hyperbole to get the best soundbite for attention. I'm really enjoying Zac's thoughtful, more technical critiques and how invested he is, evident in how genuinely excited he gets about designers with exceptional technical ability like Kini.

 

What I do eternally miss is Bravo's production quality. They knew how to edit for snappiness. That's the edge that's missing from this vanilla bloatfest.

 

Totally with you on this.  Kors was the worst.  I like Zac Posen, I think he's a much, much better judge than Kors ever was, and by the time Kors left he was a much worse judge than he started out as.  He had dissolved into a lazy, sad attempted-quip generator, straining to work the word "crotch" into every episode since "That crotch is insane" got so many laffs from the audience.

 

I'm full of unpopular opinions today!  idk I'm just calling it like I see it.  I certainly agree that this is an awful season of terrible designers...

[RealityGal]

 

Well, here's one bit of Korina hate that I truly do not understand.  Korina posted that she likes Sandhya and they are friends (which Sandhya confirmed) and they are both strong confident women, and people are being misled by editing.  What does this prove about who Korina really is?  I know fans hate it when people don't kiss their ass, but that seems irrelevant to the point to me.

 

 

 

At that point, Korina comes on and says:

"ME TOO! I think it's disgusting that ANYONE would think we "hate" each other. The ONLY reason Sandhya Garg and I butted heads is because we are both STRONG and CONFIDENT women In a competition. I completely agree with her message. Her work is extremely innovative. It is our job to comment on how we think the judges will view each others work. For any "fan" to think that equals "hate" is a mislead, brainwashed sheep. And guess what fans! Much to your dismay we are ALL very close friends. Real life is extremely different from reality TV and I wish more people would take that into consideration!"

 

 

I don't consider appreciating the fans enough to not call them names "kissing ass."  Her entire tone is bitchy and condescending, which is how she has been portrayed on the show, and tells me all I need to know.  The only reason anyone is watching Korina is because of PR fans, that is the only reason she has the opportunity to be on TV.  If she feels like she is being judged unfairly, its not the fault of the fans, its the fault of the producers.  How can anyone expect fans to go beyond what they are shown on TV?  And why should they, their job is to watch a TV show, not sit around thinking all day about what editors could be doing to Korina to make her look worse. Maybe you can't pick your edit, but you can pick what you post on facebook.  Maybe you can blame other things on editing, the words you yourself type are what you feel, and your tone is reflects who you are.  You feel like fans are idiots or misled sheep, why call anyone names when they are simply watching the show and believing what the show puts out.  How is anyone supposed to know you're this great person, if in even defending yourself you're calling people names?  And to assume that Korina Emmerich means enough in my life for me to be "dismayed" at her friendships or lack thereof only speaks to her delusional sense of self importance.  I care about Korina as much as I care about anyone from a reality show.  I have an opinion, and I snark about her in a community forum, and thats about as far as it goes, whether Korina falls off a cliff, or becomes friends with the Dali Llama after this, it doesn't really matter to me, because she doesn't really matter.  I have strong opinions about Del Taco burritos too, and I truly think the burritos matter more than Korina.  So...she can suck it.

 

And I can't really know if I am being misled by editing.  While I certainly think its possible, and at time probable most of the time its a matter of "he said/she said" and the only thing the audience sees is whats being shown to them on TV.  You can put some stock into what you can actually see in front of you on TV, you can't put much stock into what you haven't seen.  While I might have considered being mislead by editing a possibility, when someone comes out with a facebook post that exactly matches the personality they were shown to have on TV then I have no more questions. And whether or not they were friends on the show is something I don't believe, because Sandaya said pretty direct in a TH that Korina was a miserable human being trying to bring everyone else down.  So, unless we are to disbelieve the direct words that Sandaya said about Korina, then from Sandaya's POV, Korina was a miserable human being.  I find it hard to believe that someone was friends with a miserable human being, unless they became more friendly after the show.  That, however, doesn't say that Korina got an unfair edit, it only says that they....at some point....became friends.

Edited September 28, 2014 by RealityGal

[Aulty]

This episode, even with all the constructed drama, was just boring. All it did was give Tim the well deserved final push for his fall from the pedestal we was put on for the past few years. 

 

And how lame was that Make Over Challenge? No Before/After Shots, no new haircuts/colours? The whole thing was more about making them an outfit for a special occasion than improving their everyday style. Alas. Next!

[Beden]

 

It's been said on these boards before, but I guess it bears repeating, Tim Gunn is a producer on the show (as is Heidi), which gives him editing authority.

 

On scripted shows, producer just means a salary bump. I may be different in reali. But story editor etc, all just words for writers.

Yes, true--being named as a Producer is often just an excuse for a raise-hence the reason why/how a lot of obviously unqualified actors/actresses, people with serious backing money for a project and the like are sometimes listed as producers. They get--maybe--an office and sit in on meetings but often are just being given more money and a sop to their ego.

 

But it's also sometimes true that someone knows enough about what's going on to have earned the title, money, responsibility. I'm willing to give Tim Gunn enough credit to believe that he's qualified for the title and position after 13 years of doing this show added to his many years as a teacher/professor and dean (I think) of fashion and construction at a top design school.

[RealityCowgirl]

Tim Gunn to Alexander: "I believe you did the best you could under the circumstances." Tim, you do realize that the circumstances were the same for everyone, don't you?

Um, Tim? "The circumstances" was two days to make something pretty for a nice young woman to wear. Not avant garde. Not red carpet. Something pretty, that she would enjoy wearing somewhere. That your "greatest designer ever" couldn't do that affirms that the judges made the right decision. Frankly, their error was not making it long before this.

Tim Gunn can just shut it. He has no credibility left, as far as I'm concerned,

Edited September 28, 2014 by RealityCowgirl

[Calamity Jane]

I miss the original Kors, or at least how I perceived him the first few years.  In his last few seasons, he just seemed mean and playing for a laugh with no regard for actual facts or feelings.  But my memory of him at the beginning is that he was witty without so much sting, on point with helpful critique, and actually made me laugh.  I appreciate Zac's more gentle approach and his attention to the details that everyone else seems to miss, just once in a while I miss Kors' acerbic comments.  

[Kromm]

I dunno.  To me Posen seems to have gotten meaner and meaner each season he's in.  I don't perceive him as any nicer than Kors ever was--at least at this point.

[Ketzel]

Well... I suppose they have cared a whole heck of a lot less about construction this season... or maybe even in the last few seasons... but especially this season with the whole... It looks like crap because it's poorly made, but it was creative and different!! YAY!! 

 

So the judges, to me, don't appear to have much consistency when it comes to their judging criteria. Which is why I think so many of us have been baffled time and again but what they like and don't like...

I'm wondering if this is because the judges have been listening to all of the annoyance and frustration the audience has been expressing about the rise of the one-day challenges. I think they are well aware that two day challenges are quite difficult enough and they don't want to look like completely unreasonable jerks by complaining that hems aren't impeccable and fits aren't perfect, when it is amazing enough that the designers can conceive of, shop for and manufacture complete looks within 24 hours. (And I love the fact that two days has suddenly become a whole wealth of time for the show. When they do criticize construction, it's usually in the rare instance where the designers had a  two-day challenge, and at least one of the judges snarks on the construction saying, "And s/he had TWO DAYS to [make an avant garde ballgown out of three felted quilting squares and some aluminum window screening]!" as if that's all the time in the world.)

Edited September 28, 2014 by Ketzel

[English Teacher]

I think this lackluster season has less to do with a lack of talent than the work parameters they have. They are all exhausted and that has an impact on creativity. Aside from Kini who sews like the wind, I think many of them have great ideas but can't execute them in one day...so they go safe or they have a mess. I think this is true of early aufed Angela ...was that her name?

Ironically I think they would get more drama and interesting episodes if they gave them more time to work together. Everyone is so focused they don't interact as much. I miss Santinos impersinations.

This season has been so boring.

....Ketzel, I just spit out my coffee.

Actually, I would love to see the designer judges go up against these guys in a one day challenge. Take that Zac!

[AKS]

I am not necessarily a fan of Amanda's but I like her. I think most of what comes across as smug from her is actually sarcasm and that she probably is far more self deprecating when the cameras aren't on .

She is the one to stop the bitch fest back stage even though Char was less than nice a few weeks ago. She is NOT good under pressure....I would like to have seen more of what she can do without the one day time restraints in order to actually see if there is something there. Actually, that would be true of everyone.

 

While Amanda is far from my favourite when it comes to design, but are there ANY really good designers this season?, I have trouble comprehending why people think she's a... well, smug bitch. I like her as a person, I think she's rather funny and seems to take criticism well and generally I just think she seems to be calm and collected most of the time. I seem to rememember that I didn't like her at all her first season, but hey, that was then and this is now!

[Ketzel]

Thank you, English Teacher! :-) I think it would be great if Zac, at least, volunteered to take on one of the challenges with the designers. I bet it would shock him how difficult it really is.  In the show Face Off, where all the judges are world class special effects makeup artists for the film and television industries, they did a judges' challenge episode where the judges competed, each with the assistance of a previous season's winner or high-placer. It was a brilliant show, the work was wonderful and the winning judge  gave the sound bite of the season when he TH'd into the camera, with sincere shock and frustration: "Face Off is haaaaard!!"

 

I want to see Zac, Kors, the beauteous Georgina, the bitchy female designer from UTG and Tim Gunn take on a PR one-day challenge. I double-dog-dare them!!!

Edited September 28, 2014 by Ketzel

[ratgirlagogo]

Ah, the glory that is Face Off.  As a few of us pointed out it was hard to imagine a judge competition episode on any other reality competition show that would come off as beautifully:

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/14086-s07e07-judge-match/

 

 

I think the show chickened out because of Ven being an asshole to the "real" contestant that season so instead this episode we get the contestants choosing ballet dancers, beautiful German women, oddly perfect looking kindergarten teachers, etc.

 

That's a complete copout.  So as mentioned upthread, we miss out on seeing women of different sizes, and all the women end up young/skinny/white.  How is this real.  The models they're assigned are more real in that sense.

This was only sort of a "real woman" challenge.  They were supposed to go to Wash. Sq. and pick a "muse" who then, strangely enough, would at the same time be so uninspiring as a muse as to somehow require a makeover.  WTF?  As everyone has pointed out other than a couple of haircuts there was no real making over going on, so it's hard to see why they called it a makeover other than, say, an enhancement or something courtesy of Mary Kay.  Agree with everyone who has said that mostly the women looked better before.

As far as meanness to real women goes the  worst might have been season three's challenge where they had to design for another designer's family member.  Yikes!

 

I'm curious if the show really thought they were fooling anyone with that Washington Square Park sequence. A lot of those people were definitely "seeded" there for the designers to find--just on a random day you might find a hundred different NYU students, but not so many ballerinas and actresses.

 

You really do find actresses and dancers in the park on a sunny summer day at lunchtime.

Yes, none of them seemed striking enough to me to be plants.  I agree that you really do find tons of actresses, singers, dancers, etc. in the park at any time, esp in nicer weather,   and many of them are NYU students anyway.   But also there are so many theaters and dance companies and production companies downtown that you're going to find performers hanging around there between auditions, or in fact waiting for somebody from the film school to "discover" them and put them in some student production. If they're looking for work PR would be a big step up from student films or tiny Off-Broadway theaters.   I liked TLo's comment that one of the funny things about this episode was watching all those New Yorkers who had zero interest in appearing on a reality show turn the designers down so quickly.

 

ETA: gee, forgot to make my original point.  Since they were picking a "muse" they had no real reason not to pick a "real woman" who would be easier to fit given that they would not really have time to do the kind of multiple fittings you'd do if you were doing a custom outfit in the real world.  It's disappointing for me as a viewer to not see more variety of body types but I can't blame the designers for making at least that part of the challenge easier for themselves.

Edited September 28, 2014 by ratgirlagogo