S03.E08: We’ll Never Have Paris

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I think a pretty big misstep for and in this season was pulling Keeley away to her own gig.  So instead of sharing the majority of her screen time with the AFC Richmond core, we get dragged away to witness the most boring office & office workers in all the UK.

It also feels like the only reason they did that was to create the plot device of forcing Roy/Keeley apart so they can either come back to an endgame status or a way to make Jamie/Keeley endgame. 

IE, that whole subplot doesn't feel organic but instead manufactured.

Edited May 4, 2023 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[kwnyc]

Of course Jamie's password was "password." Now, it's going to be JamieTartt.

Rather than signaling a reconciliation between Ted & Michelle, I wonder if Ted's more pleasant exchanges with her are a precursor to them having a decent relationship post divorce. I think Ted/Michelle v2 would be a step backwards (particularly for Ted), but I'd like to see him be friends with his ex, and she with him.

I also hope MICHELLE finally sees that Dr. Jake is an unethical prick.

(And I really hope they are giving us a red herring with Ted pulling a green matchbook out of his pocket!)

Isaac is a great captain. Roy knew what he was doing when he selected his successor.

Henry looked a little sad and pale. Or maybe he's just really, really white.

While I think Jack & Keeley are done, I don't know if Jack will pull her funding: if the company is doing well, it's not a sound financial move. Keeley is just another toy she played with and got tired of. Jack is off to the next shiny object.

Having read on other threads that Juno was shooting a lot of other work, and that Brett has HIS show going ("Shrinking"), I wonder if that's why Keeley had her own not-with-the-team plotlines this season. We haven't seen as much of Roy except as a supporting character this season: though the glimpses of REALLY Dark Roy (the rope with red paint, his laughing at the dick-strings, etc.) are a little frightening.

I'll be okay with it if Ted doesn't end up with anyone at the end of the season. But dear God, don't let Beard marry Jane! Bay-BEH!

[Zaffy]

I think Keeley's dress was an hommage to Pretty Woman, after all both ladies were going to a Polo match.
 

[khyber]

16 minutes ago, Zaffy said:

I think Keeley's dress was an hommage to Pretty Woman, after all both ladies were going to a Polo match.
 

Exactly my thought.

[Kabota]

12 hours ago, justmehere said:

As much as I love Jamie's arc - and that Roy has been an integral part of it - I'm disappointed that we haven't seen Roy dealing more with his own issues. There have been some personal bits but not what feels like the elephant in the room. Rebecca told him earlier that Keely was off with someone who knew they deserved her (or whatever the line was), but then nothing more from him. He messed up in this ep and knew it - but he was already at that point, having had other "recognition" moments while he was with Keely (generally followed by a loud exclamation of "Fuck!"). Part of the beauty of Jamie's changes is that they've occurred over time, as would happen in real life. There isn't much time left for Roy, and although being a work in progress isn't a bad place to leave it, I want to see more than a single conversation...

...It feels like such a central part of the show, moving forward, becoming a better version of yourself - even the team has done this - but other than Jamie, we're not seeing enough lately from others on that front, and Keely, unfortunately, has regressed. Well, that happens too in real life. But there isn't much time left, there are so many threads, and they all deserve more than a few quickie lines to resolve. There have been some real gem moments and fun moments and moving moments this season, but it has also felt at times like the extra room in episodes has been wasted. I just wish the writing was tighter across the board.

 

I think Roy has been dealing with some of his issues, albeit on a less visible (to us) and conscious plane (to him). Maybe this week, after that misstep with Keeley, we’ll finally see him make some proper progress. We learned early in the season why he left Chelsea. It was clearly a parallel to his break-up with Keeley. He’s still struggling to believe in his worth after his retirement from playing football, and he preemptively jumps before facing what he feels is the inevitable decline.

I think Roy's time training Jamie will be really important to Roy's growth in coming to terms with who he is now that he's a coach. He needs to accept himself and believe he has value before he can get back with Keeley, who he feels he doesn't deserve. Roy isn't a motivational speaker like Ted or a student of the game like Beard or a tactical wizard like Nate. But he has the player experience and insight that allows him to understand what individuals may need to up their game. Jamie is Roy of 10 or 12 years ago. It's one of the reasons he can get under Roy's skin so easily and flame his insecurities. Roy's part in Jamie's success is hopefully going to build a foundation for Roy to realize that he has a lot to give as a coach, that he's as important to a team as he ever was. If he can let go of his younger self as his "only" valuable self, pass that torch to Jamie, he'll be able to accept Keeley's love.

I think Jamie’s arc has been so successful because it must have been beat plotted, early on in their planning the three season package. It’s not a complicated arc, but it’s pretty tied to important touchstones in establishing the success of the Lasso Way and Total Football. He’s existentially and metaphorically all that, and his growth has progressed across the 3 seasons, taking up roughly the same amount of screen time, and evolving believably. That said, Phil Dunster has done a phenomenal job in maturing and developing the character so that he's different, but the same. It's been one of the true joys to watch of season 3. 

[Crs97]

Phil Dunster has been completely under appreciated at awards time, but his portrayal of Jamie ranks among the best.

[Quilt Fairy]

On 5/3/2023 at 5:52 AM, DEL901 said:

is she really a hot shot venture capitalist or is she a wannabe nepo baby using daddy’s money?  

The latter, definitely. 

[Schweedie]

9 hours ago, Kabota said:

Phil Dunster has done a phenomenal job in maturing and developing the character so that he's different, but the same. It's been one of the true joys to watch of season 3. 

This, so much. He's still very much Jamie, just a Jamie that he probably never was really allowed (by his dad or by himself) to be until now.

8 hours ago, Crs97 said:

Phil Dunster has been completely under appreciated at awards time, but his portrayal of Jamie ranks among the best.

I thought for sure he'd get a nomination last season, was really disappointed when he didn't. I feel a bit like the writers are maybe actively giving him some extra great stuff this season in order for him to be noticed, and I really, really hope it works because he's just brilliant.

[MicheleinPhilly]

16 hours ago, kwnyc said:

(And I really hope they are giving us a red herring with Ted pulling a green matchbook out of his pocket!)

THIS. 

I've never entertained, for even a millisecond, the idea that they may put Ted and Rebecca together. Well, except for when I'm reading these threads, but I digress...

When I saw that, I immediately said "Oh no, please don't" out loud. There hasn't been an iota of romantic chemistry between them and I hate the idea. 

But I'm also someone who has never much cared about any of the romantic entanglements on this show. I'd be perfectly fine if they just kept the focus on Richmond as a team and left all of the romance stuff by the wayside. 

[bourbon]

I have zero problem with the tone of this show being darker. I don't notice a lack of magic. I don't have any issue with it being a "bummer." I don't care if the joke ratio is lower. I think the character writing has been rich and beautiful, and I the last three episodes up there with some of my favorite TV comedy eps ever. Yeah, I said it.

But...I have major problems with the KJPR and the Nate stuff. You did NOT just spend S2 making Nate to be one of the most despicable people on TV and then give him a meet-cute where he stammers and stumbles like a low-rent Hugh Grant to try and humanize him again. And you did not make us care about Keeley and Roy and write them as the most mature, supportive couples I've seen just to break them up for no discernible reason.

They've got a few episodes to course correct, but it all feels a bit contemptuous at this point. We're being *told* rather than *shown* that despite his truly awful act of betrayal, that Nate is actually just a damaged cuddlebug that we need to forgive? Or that the relationship we were drawn into caring about, that was portrayed with care, that we (with good reason) rooted for, was actually not any good and we need to not root for. 

I am watching with interest and hoping that this show does not become one of the several shows I cannot watch in repeat b/c TPTB so badly blew the landing. 

 

[lasu]

I'm honestly baffled at the choice to pair Michelle with her former therapist.  I agree that Ted should move on, but I don't know why they made her pairing so incredibly problematic.  Ted should be moving on, yes.  But Ted should also be extremely concerned that someone he cares about is dating her therapist, and I would have a problem with someone who has shown themselves to be so unethical being around my child. I just don't get why they made a choice with Michelle that is impossible to accept as a good or healthy thing.  If someone told me they were dating their therapist, I would be alarmed and I would have no problem saying so.  I would be extremely worried for my friend, and I would hope very, very much that the relationship would end as soon as possible.  I might eventually shut up about it (after maybe a decade, lol), but I would forever be distrustful of the former therapist.

I'm also glad the show took the stance that Keely did nothing wrong.  I've seen a lot of people say that they aren't judging her, but in today's environment, one should know better.  Yes, you have to be aware of that, but the problem was never in making the video.  The problem was in someone stealing the video.  To me, this is the same as the problem is never that a girl got drunk while wearing a short skirt at a frat party.  

[hatchetgirl]

Ok - the green matchbook - what the flip?  I don't think it's Ted and Rebecca getting together - that would be terrible.  And I think the best match for Rebecca was the guy in Norway (was it Norway? - LOL)  He has a daughter and that seems perfect for Rebecca wanting a family, but didn't they actually have sex and she doesn't remember it?  Because I'm thinking she'll end up pregnant.  Am i dreaming this or am I crazy?

[Capricasix]

He was in Amsterdam; she met him the day that Richmond played a friendly against Ajax. And they did not have sex, although in the next episode she expressed regret to Keeley about that 😄 I also think/hope that she will somehow find him again, or he her, and they will fall in love. At least, I’ve watched and hoped every episode since then that he will reappear 😄

I think Ted’s green matchbook has no more significance than the fact that everyone who was at Sam’s restaurant that night received one. 

[Hybiscus]

I haven’t had a chance to read thru all the comments, and maybe it’s been addressed, but I don’t think so.  
 

Colin’s story is HUGE, much bigger than we in the U.S. might think.  Professional soccer (using US term) is notoriously homophobic.  NOT ONE British footballer has come out as gay.  (I forget what statistics say, but compared to the general population, it should be maybe 20–& that might even be low).  In fact, ONLY ONE pro player has come out as gay, an Australian. 
 

This story is so much more than just one guy admitting he’s gay. And it makes the story that much more dramatic.  
 

Take a look at Isaac’s reaction to Colin’s phone.  He’s not accepting, he’s revolted!  

[mledawn]

5 minutes ago, Hybiscus said:

NOT ONE British footballer has come out as gay.

In fact, ONLY ONE pro player has come out as gay, an Australian. 

Setting aside you mean specifically men’s football…That isn’t true, but the overall sentiment regarding men’s football is effectively true. Given statistics as mentioned, there are many gay men playing professionally who are not out. Colin being out would be a Big Deal.

 

 

[Pepper Mostly]

5 hours ago, bourbon said:

They've got a few episodes to course correct, but it all feels a bit contemptuous at this point. We're being *told* rather than *shown* that despite his truly awful act of betrayal, that Nate is actually just a damaged cuddlebug that we need to forgive?

Nate is regretful, but not remorseful. He's a sad bunny because he's realizing that he misses the Diamond Dogs and the culture at Richmond, where everyone matters. But so far he's shown no actual remorse for his cruel, mean spirited treatment of Will, his absolutely devastating critique of Colin, and of course his mind bogglingly selfish and spiteful vent to Ted, who noticed him, encouraged him, and brought out the best in him as a coach. He's just "Oooh, I miss my friends at Richmond". But takes no ownership of what brought him to West Ham.  His pettiness, his seething rage, his overweening ego that made him think that any positive attention to anyone else was a direct shaft to him. Kindness and encouragement isn't pie. You don't get less if someone else gets some. I know the show wants us to root for his redemption but until he has a come to Jesus moment and owns what he's done, the show can miss me. 

I continue to love Keeley and hope that she finds her mojo again. She's great at what she does and we need to see that.

[Hybiscus]

13 minutes ago, mledawn said:

1. Setting aside you mean specifically men’s football…That isn’t true, but the overall sentiment regarding men’s football is effectively true. Given statistics as mentioned, there are many gay men playing professionally who are not out. Colin being out would be a Big Deal.

Gak!  I’ve really screwed up my reply.  Yes, I did mean men’s football (since what the show is (to a degree) about).  Thanks for that article.  Glad to see a few players have come out.

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Hybiscus

[Girl in a Cardigan]

1 hour ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Nate is regretful, but not remorseful. He's a sad bunny because he's realizing that he misses the Diamond Dogs and the culture at Richmond, where everyone matters. But so far he's shown no actual remorse for his cruel, mean spirited treatment of Will, his absolutely devastating critique of Colin, and of course his mind bogglingly selfish and spiteful vent to Ted, who noticed him, encouraged him, and brought out the best in him as a coach. He's just "Oooh, I miss my friends at Richmond". But takes no ownership of what brought him to West Ham.  His pettiness, his seething rage, his overweening ego that made him think that any positive attention to anyone else was a direct shaft to him. Kindness and encouragement isn't pie. You don't get less if someone else gets some. I know the show wants us to root for his redemption but until he has a come to Jesus moment and owns what he's done, the show can miss me.

Exactly! And he's really not even "I miss my friends at Richmond" so much as "I never got to talk about girls with the Diamond Dogs, so I'll round up a few randos from my new job and talk about it with them." Like the accountant guy seemed nice, but we have no indication that Nate has been nice or even cordial with ANYONE at West Ham. So it's wild that he's like, okay, now I'm the Ted character in this office and everyone has to listen to me. Ted usually speaks the least in any conversation that the Diamond Dogs have (that we've seen) and it's rarely his issue that collects them together (until recently).

Like, I'd love to see how he actually saw things happening at Richmond (like a Bad Blood episode from "the X-files") because he so wildly misrepresented everything that happened based on what we saw that it's shocking he's participating in the same reality.

I would have rooted for season 1 Nate to ask out the hostess at his favorite restaurant (while not spitting - blech!), but not after she hadn't ever been nice to him. I just...the show folx seemed to be surprised that everyone turned on Nate after they made him so cruel, sullen, and against Ted, but I'm still not sure how we're supposed to feel about him now.

At this point, I don't want bad things to happen to him (though I'd love for Richmond to beat West Ham on the pitch), but I simply don't care about him having an extra story in the last season of this show. He "lifts right out" (to use a phrase from "Friends") and I don't need him if they aren't going to show him doing the work (like Jamie) or interacting with the Richmond folx (like Keeley). My fav episode so far has been "Sunflowers" in which he appeared only in Ted's hallucination and that worked fine for me.

[MartyQui]

4 hours ago, Capricasix said:

I also think/hope that she will somehow find him again, or he her, and they will fall in love. At least, I’ve watched and hoped every episode since then that he will reappear 😄

I thought that when Ted asked her about the private investigator, there was a little bit of a lightbulb moment when she thought she might use one to find Dutch guy.  I really think that’s the endgame for her.

Michelle’s boyfriend is just so wrong…for a therapist to date a former patient is just so bad.

Nate and Jack can get off of my TV screen and never be seen again.  They’re both so boring and predictable.

[Kel Varnsen]

The whole Keeley storyline this season has been weird. Each episode they spend so much time at her office but we have no idea how her company is doing. 

The stuff with Nate kind of bugs me too. Like how is his relationship going so well, and how has he kept himself from exposing his asshole tendencies to Jade. Like what if he goes to her work now that they are a couple, what happens when she is too friendly to another patron for his liking? Or if she laughs when he does something embarrassing.

I liked when right before they went to the West Ham game, Beard said he had to make a stop. And then he was wearing all his Richmond gear. But was Ted's home always that big. I also thought it was just a single storey apartment, not a house with multiple levels.

On 5/3/2023 at 8:42 PM, angora said:

I would love for Keeley to find new funding and keep Barbara as her CFO. Keeley was on such a Boss Ass Bitch trajectory at the end of last season, but so many things have derailed that. 

Too bad Keeley doesn't know someone else who is super rich who might be able to fund her firm. Some googling tells me that the English Premier League team with the lowest value is still worth around 200 GBP. With Richmond being in London I would assume it would be worth more. So if Rebecca wanted to fund the KJPR office to get it running, it would take what a brief phone call?

[Eureka]

On 5/4/2023 at 6:24 PM, Zaffy said:

I think Keeley's dress was an hommage to Pretty Woman, after all both ladies were going to a Polo match.
 

Exactly what I said to my husband, but I think I used the phrase “ripped it off” 😆.

[Athena5217]

10 hours ago, lasu said:

I'm also glad the show took the stance that Keely did nothing wrong.  I've seen a lot of people say that they aren't judging her, but in today's environment, one should know better.  Yes, you have to be aware of that, but the problem was never in making the video.  The problem was in someone stealing the video.  To me, this is the same as the problem is never that a girl got drunk while wearing a short skirt at a frat party.

I agree the show did an excellent job of addressing some of the things said about women in these situations. I like that Keeley points out the difference between the stolen video and nude pictures she chose to pose for, and Rebecca immediately agrees. Jack should take notes.

The good writing with this storyline makes the Michelle dating their ex-therapist plot even more baffling. How did the same group of writers create  both?

[juno]

43 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

So if Rebecca wanted to fund the KJPR office to get it running, it would take what a brief phone call?

I think the end game is it all goes back to the starting point when Keeley comes back to work as PR for Richmond. Ted goes back home with Beard, Roy is the new Richmond Manger with Nate as his assistant. YAWN!!!

[shapeshifter]

10 minutes ago, Athena5217 said:

I agree the show did an excellent job of addressing some of the things said about women in these situations. I like that Keeley points out the difference between the stolen video and nude pictures she chose to pose for, and Rebecca immediately agrees. Jack should take notes.

The good writing with this storyline makes the Michelle dating their ex-therapist plot even more baffling. How did the same group of writers create  both?

I think the writers have clearly shown us that Michelle hooking up with her therapist/marriage counselor is ethically problematic, and maybe about to crash and burn. 

[Zaffy]

I read somewhere (it was a tv critic in twitter but can't remember who...sorry) that there will be a Nate related spin off!
I wonder if this is true..or maybe it will be Keeley and Nate related spin off.. which might explain why we spend so much time with them in the last season of a show called TED Lasso.

[QQQQ]

Not much to add except reading that some people don't know the backstory of "Hey Jude" has made me feel really, really old 😂 Even as Beard was explaining it, I was thinking, well, the boy's name was Julian not Jude.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

44 minutes ago, Zaffy said:

I read somewhere (it was a tv critic in twitter but can't remember who...sorry) that there will be a Nate related spin off!
I wonder if this is true..or maybe it will be Keeley and Nate related spin off.. which might explain why we spend so much time with them in the last season of a show called TED Lasso.

IF so, count me out.

I'd consider it if it was a joint show focusing on 'both Nate & Keeley, separately' sort of thing, as it might mean getting to see more of Roy Kent, but a show focusing on just Nate?

Noping the hell out immediately.

Edited May 6, 2023 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[AllyB]

10 hours ago, Girl in a Cardigan said:

Like the accountant guy seemed nice, but we have no indication that Nate has been nice or even cordial with ANYONE at West Ham. So it's wild that he's like, okay, now I'm the Ted character in this office and everyone has to listen to me. Ted usually speaks the least in any conversation that the Diamond Dogs have (that we've seen) and it's rarely his issue that collects them together (until recently).

And, the accountant guy seemed to like the idea of a supportive friendship group as he is stressed by the realities of taking care of his ageing parents. But Nate just bulldozed past that to talk about Jade. Showing that Nate really doesn't have any interest in being a friend, he just wants to have people to talk to about his issues.

[Harvey]

4 hours ago, Zaffy said:

I read somewhere (it was a tv critic in twitter but can't remember who...sorry) that there will be a Nate related spin off!
I wonder if this is true..or maybe it will be Keeley and Nate related spin off.. which might explain why we spend so much time with them in the last season of a show called TED Lasso.

Obviously not true. Twitter is full of liars and fake insiders and if anything like that were officially confirmed or hinted at it would be common knowledge. But there wasn't.

[Pepper Mostly]

11 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

The stuff with Nate kind of bugs me too. Like how is his relationship going so well, and how has he kept himself from exposing his asshole tendencies to Jade. Like what if he goes to her work now that they are a couple, what happens when she is too friendly to another patron for his liking? Or if she laughs when he does something embarrassing.

God forbid she ever calls him "Wonder Kid". 

[Lois Sandborne]

I don't even like being photographed by those urban planners doing research with their tripods at intersections and train stations. So I shuddered with sympathy at the Keeley plotline. But I do wish she had been less of a wet rag in the aftermath. Even if she didn't want to make any official moves or response to the hack, which as a victim is completely her prerogative, I would've liked to see her use some agency in her personal life. Season 1 Keeley put Roy in his place when he was being an ass about her and Jamie. Season 3 Keeley should've been able to tell Roy it was none of his business who she sent her video to instead of just looking sad and shamefaced. She should've been able to tell Jack to get the fuck out of her house for disrespecting her, instead of looking sad and asking if she was going to come back.

I think the Beatles are totally overrated, i.e. they're a good band, but they're not the Second Coming. (sorry to break it to you John Lennon) But I like "Hey Jude." It has a beautiful melody and solid, sentimental lyrics. Even though it was very on the nose, it made for a very affecting score to Beard's very affecting talk with Henry, and I would definitely join in a sidewalk singalong of it.

I liked Rebecca and Keeley's scene, liked Rebecca and Ted's talk, and loved Trent becoming a Diamond Dog. Roy's unwilling participation and Higgins's extreme enthusiasm about that will always make me laugh.

Dr. Jacob can suck it.

[Electruck]

I wish they’d had Higgins try to eke out a woof while he was gasping for breath. Loved Trent’s happy little woof. 

I don’t mind the Nate storyline. He’s realizing that being a jerk isn’t him, and I think/hope his relationship with Jade is making him move along that faster.

I’m hoping this was the last we see of Jack (Jwhatever, Keely’s gf, cannot keep the J names straight). Like I don’t even want to see her in some resolution scene. She’s a big nothing, and an unsupportive one at that.

I was hoping Keeley/Roy was endgame, but Jamie’s grown a lot. If it’s him, ok. Then Jaymeh and Keeleh can have babehs.

[debraran]

Some shows have everything wrapped up in a bow at the end but it's nice with a show like Ted Lasso. Maybe there will be wedding but not enough time. I want Rebecca happy, I like her more than any of the other women and she's found from experience what she wants and doesn't want. I always wondered since she and Ted were so close, was there a possibility, he has a child, and I said No because she's his boss and that's awful. But if he leaves at the end or is promoted or something, maybe but I hope not.

Keeley I don't really care about but the show wont leave one guy out. Time will tell, maybe she wont be with either or Jamie will move on. I want Nate and Ted to talk and that's coming, I don't know if random meeting while he's out with date or by himself but the regret is there, he needs to ask for forgiveness and Ted will gladly accept it. He'll probably get fired from his team over something.

This is a feel good show where emotion rules and common sense. They wont have anyone unhappy at the end.

[marny]

On 5/5/2023 at 6:34 PM, MartyQui said:

I thought that when Ted asked her about the private investigator, there was a little bit of a lightbulb moment when she thought she might use one to find Dutch guy.  I really think that’s the endgame for her.

Why would she need an investigator to find him? She knows exactly where he lives. She could go there any time. 

[cmfran]

On 5/6/2023 at 9:39 AM, Pepper Mostly said:

God forbid she ever calls him "Wonder Kid". 

Was Nate a virgin until this episode? Not that there's anything wrong with that, but given his awkwardness with women, it wouldn't surprise me.

The hour long episodes aren't working for me. Way too much filler. I found myself looking at the run time around the 30 min mark, and thought "wow, there's another 25 mins of this?"

[debraran]

12 minutes ago, cmfran said:

Was Nate a virgin until this episode? Not that there's anything wrong with that, but given his awkwardness with women, it wouldn't surprise me.

The hour long episodes aren't working for me. Way too much filler. I found myself looking at the run time around the 30 min mark, and thought "wow, there's another 25 mins of this?"

I love the show but unless the game is ultra special, I FF through parts and even with Keely in some in the past. If I need to go back I will but I have less tolerance for filler as I get older. Give me the meat. ; )

[DearEvette]

After two really good episodes, this one was another ho-hum one that feels like it is treading water, wallowing in the minutia of two storylines that sprung out of nowhere this season and one that should have been put to bed last season. 

Realistic that Ted is still dealing with the his feelings about the unwanted divorce.  But I hate that it is so very present.  I could have gone another five seasons happy never hearing about Michelle or Henry. I would have rather see him dealing with it over the phone with Doc Sharon while getting glimpses of what is going on with her. Oddly she seems to have completely disappeared after the first episode.  She really should be the one he is calling to work through this.

Jack/Keeley and Nate/Jade being the two from this season that are not interesting to me.  Jack and Keeley because Jack is just a cardboard character with no real personality and feels like something created to give Keeley something to do. And Jade because her liking of Nate feels like it was spun from invisible fairy cloth threads and we are being told to believe it.  And yet, the storytelling just isn't there to support it.

Ditto to Nate's supposed redemption

On 5/5/2023 at 3:21 PM, Pepper Mostly said:

Nate is regretful, but not remorseful. He's a sad bunny because he's realizing that he misses the Diamond Dogs and the culture at Richmond, where everyone matters. But so far he's shown no actual remorse for his cruel, mean spirited treatment of Will, his absolutely devastating critique of Colin, and of course his mind bogglingly selfish and spiteful vent to Ted, who noticed him, encouraged him, and brought out the best in him as a coach.

100%.  This is all I am getting.  No remorse.  No inner self reflection. No real grief at what he's done.  Just 'woe is me, I am pitiful, please feel bad for me now.'

And as far as Keeley and Jack, I feel that Jack has hijacked what should have been Keeley's story about her rise of success.  I agree that KJPR is the saddest looking PR firm, with the dreariest looking staff where no business seems to be conducted.  Where are her meetings with people?  We got one scene of her on a set doing something, and that was just to introduce Shandy. This is the great opportunity she had?  This tired looking little job?

Also why do they dress Jack so poorly?  She was looking great in that killer white suit while playing golf, and then later they had to go and mess it up by putting her in yet another horrible top with another horrible collar.

On 5/3/2023 at 10:51 PM, Girl in a Cardigan said:

I was really, really hoping that after Keeley finished reeling from the video being leaked that she would put on her Keeley Jones, Independent Woman pants on and actually do PR for herself and the other women affected by the leak.

Absolutely.  A missed opportunity and one that would have been nice to see Keeley actually doing work and kicking her sad little office workers into gear. Maybe next week? 

On 5/3/2023 at 11:27 AM, Quickbeam said:

I thought Roy was asking who the video was for so he could go beat the shit out of him. 

That was my interpretation.  Or at least half.  He was asking out of pure jealousy.  And then in Roy fashion would have been going out to kick some ass.  My other take is that it is yet another example of how Roy just doesn't know how to deal with his emotions so he remains awkward about it.  When he was with Keeley he could work it out with her. But because he isn't he's regressing.

 

On 5/3/2023 at 8:52 AM, Capricasix said:

Ever notice how many character names are Ja—? We’ve got Jamie, Jake (Dr Jacob), Jade, Jack 🤔 (tbh I just noticed it now myself 😄)

LOL.  I noticed that just this episode.  But for me it is was one-syllable 'Ja' names.  Jake, Jade, Jack and Jane.  They are all the problematic significant others who aren't really characters but feel like stand-in plot devices.

[mledawn]

On 5/6/2023 at 7:33 PM, Electruck said:

I don’t mind the Nate storyline. He’s realizing that being a jerk isn’t him, and I think/hope his relationship with Jade is making him move along that faster.

This is unfortunately an aspect of Nate's story that adds to my annoyance - the man being "fixed" by his relationship with a woman. Bleh.

[AncientNewbie]

I'll admit to being a bit conflicted, because my enjoyment level is at previous levels, but I like the characters so much that I just want to see what happens. 

One of the reasons for this is my worldview, I guess, that I'm applying to the show as if it's intentional--everyone is broken in some way and it's all about how we deal with it. So I'm okay with things like the Dr. Jacob relationship that would be horribly problematic in real life because it works as a way to get a lot of issues front and center. Plus, having done some ethics work in the day job, pretty much any bad choice a licensed professional could make has been made at some time, so it's not really that much of a stretch for me. 

[Kel Varnsen]

2 hours ago, mledawn said:

This is unfortunately an aspect of Nate's story that adds to my annoyance - the man being "fixed" by his relationship with a woman. Bleh.

Plus it seems like Nate is still being a jerk. Sets up a fake, seemingly forced, diamond dogs and then when one other guy there trys to talk about his personal problems, Nate shuts him down. Then when Henry, Ted and Beard show up at the West Ham match, Nate can't even bring himself to wave, to a kid. So nothing has even really been fixed, it is more like just that everything is going Nate's way (great job he is doing well at, boss bought him a fancy car, and he has a hot girlfriend who he previously had a crush on).

[MicheleinPhilly]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Then when Henry, Ted and Beard show up at the West Ham match, Nate can't even bring himself to wave, to a kid. 

BINGO. 

My hate for him ratcheted up about 1,000 points in that moment. 

I don't care about his trajectory or "growth", he's an asshole. Always has been, always will be. 

[paramitch]

As always, this had some sweet moments. But they continue to feel forced to me. The "Hey, Jude" moment felt artificial to me, honestly. Yes, it was lovely, but it also felt like the show was trying too hard -- just like with last week's pillow fight. (Sorry I'm such a Grinch.)

However, I continue to feel that the fracturing of almost every relationship on the show for this season has damaged the show as a whole. Instead of storylines that organically evolve multiple character arcs at once -- Ted/Rebecca, Roy/Keeley, Nate/Ted, Roy/Jamie, Rebecca/Sam, etc. -- the show deliberately split everyone up, and now is trying to tell all these individual stories at once, and in ways that still sometimes feel forced to me. Then add in the new storyline for Colin (which I LOVE, mind you), and it's a slightly messy mix.

I hate how little we've seen of Rebecca on her own this season, while honestly we've gotten way, way too much Keeley (and it doesn't help that I hate her KJPR office and find it utterly unrealistic for Keeley, hate the toxic Jack romance, and am frustrated at how little ROY we have gotten. I did think Keeley had her spark back this episode -- her styling seemed the most "her" it has been all season.

Or take Nate, who is really not getting anymore screen time than last season, with his parents, Wonder Kid, and other moments. It's just that last season, Nate's moments also frequently included Ted, Roy, and even Keeley. This season it's just all solitary Nate with (like Keeley) all new characters (I'm shocked at how little Rupert we are getting, as well).

And I just hate Ted's story this season, which seems to be about his continued/newfound sadness over his marriage and how his ex doesn't deserve him.

The bummer is, this episode's themes had some interesting things to say about shame and accountability, even if (frustratingly) we still see no accountability or awareness from TED himself. Which was another missed opportunity here. He could have told Michelle, for instance, that he regretted not listening better, that he wished he had taken her to Paris, etc. -- and that he was glad someone finally took her. Etc. Something healthy and reparative. 

Instead, he is now two years past divorce and still gazing sadly at Michelle and I am just over it. Especially given that they have made poor Michelle as unlikable as possible in a stealth way all along -- she dumps Ted for no visible reason than lost mojo, is fake-understanding but also steamrolls him into SIGN THE PAPERS NOW on the divorce, then hooks up with their marriage counselor. It just feels cheap. Like, Michelle is already hated by millions of viewers already, now she's actively unethical. Meanwhile, this episode we get some very weird story beats with them and I am just praying Ted does not reconcile with her. I mean, how would that even work? How could he ever trust someone again who left him for vague "I've lost that mojo" reasons? Wouldn't he always be on edge, waiting for it to happen again? Ugh.

But I honestly could see the show thinking that was a happy ending for Ted -- him getting his wife back (who "appreciates him now") and going back to Kansas to his family. But I think that would be such a sad ending and honestly feel like Ted has kind of wasted his time in the UK for where he's at right now emotionally. It's frustrating.

This episode also had a very weird undertone to it. There was a ton of use of the f-bomb (Beard actually uses it in front of Henry to Mae in a comment that had no need of it, which felt so weird to me), and I have a sailor's mouth, so no judgment, but it just felt odd to me. Combine that with Jack subtly slut-shaming Keeley, the guys in the locker room all great with the hack until they realize Keeley is a victim... the show still just feels very uneven to me. I still love it, but it's a mess.

I did love the French version of "Come Softly, Darling" inclusion, which to me was a fun nod to Paris as well as to the show's love of rom-coms (it's a notable inclusion in Crossing Delancey).

On 5/3/2023 at 5:42 PM, angora said:

I like that Isaac made everyone delete their private explicit photos/videos. He rightly recognized how easily any of them could be targeted by hackers--unbeknownst to him, Jamie already was--and got strict to protect the team *and* their sexual partners. He takes his role as team captain so seriously.

I just wish he (or Sam, or someone) had mentioned deleting from the cloud. Everyone deleting their phone pictures felt silly to me because it's already after the fact -- it wasn't people's individual phones that were hacked, it was their cloud accounts.

On 5/3/2023 at 3:32 PM, Captain Carrot said:

Seeing how happy Will is this season, and thinking about the scene when he closed the blinds after Nate screamed at him. I've come to the realization that there's someone that Nate needs to apologize to even more then Ted.

I agree, and do hope we see it. I think we may (more on this farther down). I have always, always hated that nobody ever called Nate on his treatment of Will, even when he was pretty bullying to Will right in front of Ted and Beard (who seemed to treat it as, "Oh, Nate's standards are just so high"). I was so disappointed when Beard made Nate apologize to Colin but never said a word to him about his treatment of Will.

On 5/3/2023 at 5:05 PM, debraran said:

I like how Nate is coming out of his hard shell. He's so sensitive and insecure even if a jerk. I can't keep hating him, he's not Rupert. He's redeemable. There would be no issue with Ted or Henry (he's still in Lego set as a player) but the others, it would take some groveling.  He wants what they had before now that he sees it in hindsight. We all make mistakes, his were big.

What's interesting is that the show has consistently showed us this season that Nate's impulses have been to heal and move on. He said openly that he wants to apologize to Ted, for instance -- he wanted to approach Ted in person after snubbing him, he wanted to wave at them (and even started to tell Rupert he thought their appearance at the game was funny), but he is still ruled by what others think and how he thinks he should appear to them. Even with Jade, he is acting a part, terrified of being or showing his real self.

I think he'll get redemption (I think he'll return to the club and Ted will leave to go back to Kansas), I just want him to apologize to Will if he does.

On 5/3/2023 at 8:01 PM, lovinbob said:

I was really hoping that the Colin-Isaac thread would be resolved by episode's end. I think they made this a cliffhanger for dramatic effect. But in the end, I don't think Isaac is going to be anything but supportive, and the team will jump on board. This show makes a point to portray the team's locker room culture as refreshingly kind and progressive, often comedically so.

I 100% agree. There's no way Isaac isn't going to support Colin -- as will the team. And I can't wait to see it.

On 5/3/2023 at 8:49 PM, AngieBee1 said:

-As much as I don't want Ted and Rebecca to get together, I equally do not want Ted and Michelle to reconcile. Yes, we don't need to see everything played out onscreen, but what could possibly have changed from her wanting distance, then nudging Ted on signing the divorce papers to now? Yes, we got a scene this season (IIRC) where she seemed impress how he didn't fall into his standard pattern, but other than that why would she want to be back with him? Hoping it's a misdirect (as I'm hoping that green matchbook is a misdirect).

Ditto on all of the above. I hated the weird little beats tonight that seemed to signify that Michelle might be getting feelings again for Ted. I just don't see how the show can go back there -- they have utterly poisoned her character with the whole "dating their therapist" thing, and I'm frustrated that this season we have an even more "depressed Ted hung up on his ex" storyline to wade through. I just don't think it's telling us anything new about Ted, I find it really tedious, the jealousy is not a good look for Ted two years past the finalization of their divorce, etc. And I will absolutely throw things if they screw up Ted and Rebecca's wonderful platonic friendship with a last-minute romance.

On 5/4/2023 at 2:55 AM, justmehere said:

As much as I love Jamie's arc - and that Roy has been an integral part of it - I'm disappointed that we haven't seen Roy dealing more with his own issues. There have been some personal bits but not what feels like the elephant in the room. Rebecca told him earlier that Keely was off with someone who knew they deserved her (or whatever the line was), but then nothing more from him. He messed up in this ep and knew it - but he was already at that point, having had other "recognition" moments while he was with Keely (generally followed by a loud exclamation of "Fuck!"). Part of the beauty of Jamie's changes is that they've occurred over time, as would happen in real life. There isn't much time left for Roy, and although being a work in progress isn't a bad place to leave it, I want to see more than a single conversation.

Rebecca has been the fount of all wisdom lately - which is great; she's great at that - but there's been no further development of her own story. How is she doing, moving on from Rupert? I want to see that progress!

It feels like such a central part of the show, moving forward, becoming a better version of yourself - even the team has done this - but other than Jamie, we're not seeing enough lately from others on that front, and Keely, unfortunately, has regressed. Well, that happens too in real life. But there isn't much time left, there are so many threads, and they all deserve more than a few quickie lines to resolve. There have been some real gem moments and fun moments and moving moments this season, but it has also felt at times like the extra room in episodes has been wasted. I just wish the writing was tighter across the board.

Beautifully said. I'm so frustrated at how little Rebecca we've gotten this season, and hers is a journey I really care about. The irony is, she has seemed so much healthier and more positive after her breakup than Ted -- I wish she could have managed to give him more of the advice and friendship we saw here across this season.

On 5/4/2023 at 6:35 AM, DEL901 said:

One thing that gives me hope for the season - they wrote this show as a three season arc and are committed to it.  Even if there is some kind of spin off or continuation of some sort, all of these conflicts and story lines will have a resolution, unlike those shows that drag things out for years or even decades.  

To me it's pretty obvious that Ted is increasingly unhappy and disconnected from his life in London, and that he will leave to return to the U.S. at the end of this season. Which, I'm sorry, feels kind of like a waste to me both for the character and the show. Ted could find real happiness in London, but he won't let himself. Even going to that horrible restaurant in Amsterdam was a clue -- Ted has no desire to move forward. It's not who he is.

I think Nate will end up turning on Rupert (possibly even going to Ted when he realizes some nefarious thing Rupert will try to do to beat them), then will end up redeeming himself and coming back to Manchester as a coach.

I think Rebecca will reconnect with Hot Dutch Guy and possibly even leave London. I think Keeley will return to Roy (who will give a big mea culpa) and succeed with her PR firm and that her CFO will keep working for her. I think Manchester will win the title and Colin will kiss his fella before the world, and that Trent will write a fabulous bestseller about the whole thing.

On 5/4/2023 at 7:24 AM, AD55 said:

I wish Michelle were more appealing. The writers have made it too easy IMO to excuse Ted for the dissolution of their marriage. He has serious issues that would make marriage to him challenging, but unless I have missed something, the writers identify the problem as Michelle's simply falling out of love with him for no readily apparent reason other than "that sometimes happens in a relationship."

This has always bothered me about the show. It has its cake and eats it too by trying to pretend like Michelle is a nice person, but all the things we have seen her do are not nice. I honestly have felt so sorry for the actress who plays her (who was a lot of fun on "Better Off Ted," because she's in an utterly thankless role -- the woman who dumped sweet Ted for no good reason, who pretended to be nice but hounded for him to sign the divorce papers ASAP ASAP ASAP, and who then lied to him and hid the fact that she was in a serious and unethical relationship with their ex-marriage counselor (who Ted had already revealed had been actively harmful to him, made him feel anti-therapy, and that he had been ganged up on there).

On 5/4/2023 at 8:23 AM, Phebemarie said:

Has the music over the closing credits ever been significant before?  This is the English version of the song Come Softly, Darling for everyone not fluent in French like Rebecca. 

I do think the closing-credits music is frequently significant. Here, I took this as a nod to Paris (using the French version) and also to Ted Lasso's love of Rom-Communism (Crossing Delancey).

On 5/4/2023 at 8:40 AM, juno said:

Ted has suddenly been sleepwalking through the season in a funk but rarely have we seen him helping the team and players and coaching. The team's games were the focus in the first 2 seasons and now they are background news.

This continues to be my biggest issue with this season. I hate that Ted is barely seen coaching this season. Even when the team started winning this episode, we saw no sign that it's because Ted is a good coach. It's just sort of happening out in the ether.

On 5/4/2023 at 12:11 PM, AngieBee1 said:

Exactly. I was hoping that Rebecca asking Ted why he didn't take Michelle to Paris himself would loosen something out of him - to show that he realized that there was a failing on his part that wasn't solely down to him being too perky and accommodating. That bit showed us that he had time to honour everyone else and help them be better people and show that he appreciated them but didn't do that for Michelle.

Even with Henry. He's been tearing up inside about being apart from him, but he's too caught up in Michelle and Dr. Jacob to not give Henry his full attention. And when he does have his full attention at bedtime, he's asking him questions about Michelle and Dr. Jacob. He's not being in the moment with those he loves and instead just focusing on what's hurting him.

And if he does reconcile with Michelle (I assume Jake did propose and she turned him down, hence that awkward bit at the car and her looking back at Ted) I don't think we've seen enough in Ted to show that he has made any real substantial change in how he approaches his relationship with her.

This was all really well said, and echoes my main problems with Ted this season as well. I just don't care about his relationship with Michelle -- especially since there has been very little actual talk about the dynamics of what happened there. Ted is a wonderful guy but he hasn't taken any responsibility there at all.

On 5/4/2023 at 12:15 PM, Trillium said:

It hasn’t been terrible, and some parts have been extremely good. But this is where they should be bringing it home, spending time with the characters we’ve come to love. Yet we get Jack, Shandy, Jade, Zava far more than we’ve seen Sam. And even Roy has been relegated to a side character for most of the time. They’ve made the most of the time they are on but it’s been far too little of the things that make the show great. 

100% agreed. 

On 5/5/2023 at 9:43 AM, lasu said:

I'm honestly baffled at the choice to pair Michelle with her former therapist.  I agree that Ted should move on, but I don't know why they made her pairing so incredibly problematic.  Ted should be moving on, yes.  But Ted should also be extremely concerned that someone he cares about is dating her therapist, and I would have a problem with someone who has shown themselves to be so unethical being around my child. I just don't get why they made a choice with Michelle that is impossible to accept as a good or healthy thing.

Yes, all of this! I feel like this was a terrible decision by the writers, and so unnecessary, like they were just trying to weight the board against Michelle even more when let's face it, we were all already on Ted's side anyway. It just feels cheap and unnecessary.

On 5/5/2023 at 12:04 PM, Hybiscus said:

Colin’s story is HUGE, much bigger than we in the U.S. might think.  Professional soccer (using US term) is notoriously homophobic.  NOT ONE British footballer has come out as gay.  (I forget what statistics say, but compared to the general population, it should be maybe 20–& that might even be low).  In fact, ONLY ONE pro player has come out as gay, an Australian. 

This story is so much more than just one guy admitting he’s gay. And it makes the story that much more dramatic.  

Take a look at Isaac’s reaction to Colin’s phone.  He’s not accepting, he’s revolted!  

I agree that Colin's story is a huge deal. I do not agree that Isaac was "revolted." I simply cannot imagine that reaction from Isaac, who we know cares about Colin, and who we know as a good person. I really hope you're wrong, and Isaac proves to be unshakably supportive and an ally to Colin.

On 5/5/2023 at 8:01 PM, juno said:

I think the end game is it all goes back to the starting point when Keeley comes back to work as PR for Richmond. Ted goes back home with Beard, Roy is the new Richmond Manger with Nate as his assistant. YAWN!!!

Yeah, I think a lot of this is what will happen too, although I think Nate will be head coach, not assistant. 

5 hours ago, mledawn said:

This is unfortunately an aspect of Nate's story that adds to my annoyance - the man being "fixed" by his relationship with a woman. Bleh.

I agree that this is a frustrating aspect of it. The only thing I like about it is that I do think that out of everything Nate needs in the world, love and acceptance are first and foremost, so it is nice that he's finally getting them in a different way here (before that, the only person who had given him that was Ted).

I do think Nate being loved and accepted is helping to heal that toxic self-hatred "spitting at his reflection" side that his father taught him to be. He has spent his entire life being told by his father (and then bullies) that he was worthless and less-than. I'm just wondering if he can maintain this new self-esteem even if he and Jade don't work out or Rupert fires him.

Meanwhile, I still miss Dr. Sharon.

Edited May 8, 2023 by paramitch
hey Jude

[roseslg]

I've seen this several times about the guys being ok with the hack until it was Keely and this is 150% not what happened. The entire discussion that preceded them finding out it was Keely wouldnt make sense then.  Finding out it was Keely spurred them to immediately delete any pictures they had, but Jamie and Sam already never kept any and the back and forth conversation was about an expectation of privacy regardless of Keely.

[paramitch]

4 minutes ago, roseslg said:

I've seen this several times about the guys being ok with the hack until it was Keely and this is 150% not what happened. The entire discussion that preceded them finding out it was Keely wouldnt make sense then.  Finding out it was Keely spurred them to immediately delete any pictures they had, but Jamie and Sam already never kept any and the back and forth conversation was about an expectation of privacy regardless of Keely.

I agree -- to an extent. But it started out not being taken super seriously at first, with Colin masking his homosexuality with the standard locker-room joke that "he knew what he would be doing all weekend," etc. and several of the guys laughing.

We did then get some of the guys speaking up about how bad a thing it was (most notably Sam, a subdued Jamie, etc.)

But they were all MUCH more "not okay" with it once it was revealed Keeley was a victim, and that's when Isaac moved on to "everyone delete everything in your phones now."

I do think it was a bit clumsily handled. I was also icked out by the French guy bemoaning having to delete all his sex pictures while listing them aloud, and most of them were evidently threesomes with sisters, twins, and (in one case) a mom and daughter? 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Re: the Nate stuff and not acknowledging Henry's waving.

Nate deserves most of it - IE, reaping what he's sowed - but he knows that he's now Rupert's little bitch.  And the last thing Rupert is going to want to see is Nate 'playing nice' with Ted & his kid.

Was it shitty that he didn't give a quick little wave back to Henry?  Absolutely.  But he also knows that Rupert has got an eagle eye on every last little thing he does.

I am in NO way making excuses for Nate.  He alone put himself in that position.  But its easy to see why he'd want to protect himself and his position as 'gaffer' at West Ham, as well.

[Abra]

All right I can't take this anymore. Dr. Jacob is the unethical one. You know, the guy Michelle trusted with her hopes and dreams and fears and insecurities and vulnerabilities that he maintains full knowledge of to present himself and his actions to her in the best light possible - that guy?

[Kel Varnsen]

2 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Re: the Nate stuff and not acknowledging Henry's waving.

Nate deserves most of it - IE, reaping what he's sowed - but he knows that he's now Rupert's little bitch.  And the last thing Rupert is going to want to see is Nate 'playing nice' with Ted & his kid.

Was it shitty that he didn't give a quick little wave back to Henry?  Absolutely.  But he also knows that Rupert has got an eagle eye on every last little thing he does.

I am in NO way making excuses for Nate.  He alone put himself in that position.  But its easy to see why he'd want to protect himself and his position as 'gaffer' at West Ham, as well.

I was thinking about that and I kind of wish Nate would realize he is in kind of a good position with respect to Rupert and stop kissing his ass. Because as far as we know, right now West Ham is at or near the top of the standings. Rupert firing Nate right now would look really bad. Plus if Nate's coaching is actually working then it could also hurt the team. Plus if Nate gets fired while being a winning coach it would make him very attractive to other teams who might want to hire him. Especially since convincing the public that Rupert is a rich asshole and terrible boss, probably wouldn't be that hard.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

2 hours ago, Abra said:

All right I can't take this anymore. Dr. Jacob is the unethical one. You know, the guy Michelle trusted with her hopes and dreams and fears and insecurities and vulnerabilities that he maintains full knowledge of to present himself and his actions to her in the best light possible - that guy?

I don't think there's ever been much doubt about that.  The show even pounded that home with that whole bit of Dr. Jacob silently freaking out when he realized it was Ted on the other end of the phone a couple episodes ago.

However, I think a bit that is lost in all this is what it says about Michelle, too. 

She has to know that dating her marriage counselor, even if after nearly 2 years of divorce, is wrong - on a moral level, at the very least.  Like the quoted above, she poured herself out to this guy so he knows exactly how to play up on what she wants in & from a partner.  Not hard to be 'the rebound' when she's basically written the book on what her ideals and desires for a relationship are;  a 'book' that Dr. Jake's been reviewing & studying for (at least) 3-4 years now.

Edited May 9, 2023 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Atlanta]

I really don't want Rebecca with someone we haven't gotten to know (I'm including Netherlands boat guy). Sam and her were sweet, but problematic. I had hoped that Trent and her would develop a relationship since he's now at Richmond working on his book, but the writers tossed that out. Her and Ted work as BFFs, but nothing else unless they do a big time jump. I don't want him and Michelle getting back together. He really doesn't need that drama again. I also don't want him with Sassy Smurf. Maybe Ted pulls a Kelly Taylor and "I choose me"? Or Rebecca does that? I don't like relationships out of the blue. That's why Keeley and Roy worked.  

[Zaffy]

With only a few episodes remaining I doubt they will give Ted the change to meet a new love interest. So it will either be someone we already know (his ex wife included) or nobody (for now).