S06.E11: Saturday in the Park

[Boo Boo]

Elijah seems like the character that Madison used to be -- sweet but neurotic.  Or nervous energy.  Is that what she sees in him?  Her former self?

 

[Cosmocrush]

8 hours ago, circumvent said:

The writers do a good job making the connections on how the siblings are close, how they show up for each other, even if some of us find it outrageous, silly, not fair, or whatever. The connection was the theme, and thy did that well. 

Unpopular opinion but as someone with a sibling who are not at all close, I like the story about The Big Three showing up for each other and having each other's back.  (Maybe that's why I found Kevin and Randall's awful fight so terrible.)   And that's 100% on Jack and Rebecca in the same way our parents pitted us against each other. 

[mansonlamps]

1 hour ago, Cosmocrush said:

Unpopular opinion but as someone with a sibling who are not at all close, I like the story about The Big Three showing up for each other and having each other's back.  (Maybe that's why I found Kevin and Randall's awful fight so terrible.)   And that's 100% on Jack and Rebecca in the same way our parents pitted us against each other. 

I love when siblings are close,  I just don't think they should be put ahead of a spouse or child,  nor should they interfere with spousal disagreements unless there is an impending threat.  This is what bugs me about Kevin (mostly) and Randall (to a much lesser extent).  Like someone else said,  I can't imagine either Kevin or Kate butting into a fight Randall and Beth were having,  neither of those two would allow it.  I guess Kate, as the girl, needs protection🤮

[Captain Asshat]

9 minutes ago, mansonlamps said:

I love when siblings are close,  I just don't think they should be put ahead of a spouse or child,  nor should they interfere with spousal disagreements unless there is an impending threat.  This is what bugs me about Kevin (mostly) and Randall (to a much lesser extent).  Like someone else said,  I can't imagine either Kevin or Kate butting into a fight Randall and Beth were having,  neither of those two would allow it.  I guess Kate, as the girl, needs protection🤮

I agree with you. Siblings should not be put ahead of a spouse or should they interfere in this way. That said, my ex is a twin. In general, twins are in each other's business, they will defend each other, and they will put each other ahead of a spouse. I was even told as much early in our relationship -- if it came down to something between me and the twin, I would not "win." So I think the show gets this dynamic absolutely right, because you see this with Kevin, her blood twin, and to a much lesser extent with Randall, who treats her like he treats all the women/girls in his life. They wouldn't butt into a Randall/Beth fight, because though they see Randall as a brother, they don't see him as their triplet. Even in this episode, Kevin referred to Kate as his twin.

[qtpye]

12 minutes ago, Captain Asshat said:

I agree with you. Siblings should not be put ahead of a spouse or should they interfere in this way. That said, my ex is a twin. In general, twins are in each other's business, they will defend each other, and they will put each other ahead of a spouse. I was even told as much early in our relationship -- if it came down to something between me and the twin, I would not "win." So I think the show gets this dynamic absolutely right, because you see this with Kevin, her blood twin, and to a much lesser extent with Randall, who treats her like he treats all the women/girls in his life. They wouldn't butt into a Randall/Beth fight, because though they see Randall as a brother, they don't see him as their triplet. Even in this episode, Kevin referred to Kate as his twin.

Probably why that person is your ex.

I am very close to my brother. He is quite a bit younger than me and I raised him like a second mother. 

However, he will NEVER come before my husband.

Kate at this point is probably happy to have Toby out of her life. She has everything she ever wanted, two beautiful children including one that will forever carry the legacy of St. Jack in his name, a best friend, close proximity to her brother, and a job that fulfills her.

Toby is now just an annoying flea in her ear. She does not even need his money because Kevin will provide her with everything she needs.

I think Randall and Rebecca turned to each other because they both were left out of the "twin" dynamic. I actually enjoy adult Randall/Kevin scenes (when they get along) better than adult Kate/Kevin scenes. I also enjoy adult Kate/Randall more than adult Kate/Kevin as well.

Kate and Kevin have always been uncomfortably codependent for me, since the beginning of the series.

I think even though Randall is insufferable, he has the right sibling dynamic with both of them. He cares for them deeply but knows when to butt out. It does not surprise me that he is the only of the Big Three to have a successful romantic relationship.

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by qtpye

[Cosmocrush]

Interesting points about twins.  I hadn't thought about the Kate/Kevin twin aspect of it but it certainly makes a lot of sense - especially the difference between Kate and Kevin and Kevin and Randall. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Cosmocrush

[peeayebee]

51 minutes ago, Captain Asshat said:

Even in this episode, Kevin referred to Kate as his twin.

Just curious -- With triplets, how would one refer to one of his/her siblings? Of course you can say, "This is my brother/sister/sibling." But would you ever say, "This is my trip?" or something along those lines?

[mostlylurking]

23 hours ago, debbie311 said:

I have two friends who don't even put gas in their own cars.  "That's a husband's job." One says she "doesn't know how." Here in CA where I live, all gas stations are self-service.  I don't know what they will do if they ever find themselves without a husband.

So I lived in NJ my whole life until we moved two years ago.  I never had to pump my own gas and had only done it twice in my entire life.  It’s not that hard.  The directions are right there on the pump.  The hardest part for me is figuring out which way to put the credit card in, lol. And as for all the other stuff, there’s always google/YouTube.  My husband is definitely more car savvy than I am, but if he’s busy I’m not just going to wait around for him to put wiper fluid it, fill my tires if they’re low, etc.

I think it’s great Kate wants Jack to grow up and have dignity, and be independent. You do have to foster that stuff early.  However, there are limits.  This is a toddler.  It’s not like if he doesn’t learn now he’s going to go his entire life without knowing how to open a door.  He’s doing fantastic with his walking stick, learning how to tell his shoes apart, etc.  I’m pretty sure he will figure out doors when the time is right.

There was a funny part when they were walking to the park and Toby said something about the sandbox and getting tetanus.  Ha!  So true, public sandboxes are a no-no.

[Marley]

I would never say this about a real life person but this is fiction lol so just saying after this episode I hope in the future Kate is dead. We haven’t seen her yet so maybe she will be. The show would never do that tho I bet.

[MissLucas]

The show never really delved into the whole twins thing except when Kate and Kevin refer to each other as twin and Randall as brother and some throw away joke about their psychic link like in this episode. Back in season one I was waiting for the show to explore their birth trauma and how they dealt with the loss of Kyle once they were told. (Research on the topic exists so the writers could have used that.) But the only one we saw handle that information was Randall. It's a lost opportunity because it could have gone a long way explaining some of the issues that Kate and Kevin share. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by MissLucas

[BC4ME]

8 minutes ago, Marley said:

I would never say this about a real life person but this is fiction lol so just saying after this episode I hope in the future Kate is dead. We haven’t seen her yet so maybe she will be. The show would never do that tho I bet.

So far we haven't seen Kate or Miguel in the flash forwards of Rebecca on her deathbed. Since Rebecca has made Kate the POA (basically) in the event Miguel dies I think we can credibly speculate two things. 1) Kate will still be alive at the end. 2) Miguel will not be :( 

[Madding crowd]

1 hour ago, Marley said:

I would never say this about a real life person but this is fiction lol so just saying after this episode I hope in the future Kate is dead. We haven’t seen her yet so maybe she will be. The show would never do that tho I bet.

I would never wish the death of the mother of two young children. They have not shown Kate being abusive, robbing or murdering anyone. Why does she deserve to be dead? 

[debraran]

2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

The show never really delved into the whole twins thing except when Kate and Kevin refer to each other as twin and Randall as brother and some throw away joke about their psychic link like in this episode. Back in season one I was waiting for the show to explore their birth trauma and how they dealt with the loss of Kyle once they were told. (Research on the topic exists so the writers could have used that.) But the only one we saw handle that information was Randall. It's a lost opportunity because it could have gone a long way explaining some of the issues that Kate and Kevin share. 

I've read when many moms lose a multiple, they don't say "twins" when they had triplets. One mom said in interview, I will with strangers at times, too tiring, but I had 3 and usually say I had triplets but lost one. They have been a joy etc.

I had twins and a singleton before in 80's. I live in CT but leaving your baby in hospital with no funeral, picture, anything is very odd to me. Maybe Yale was progressive but she didn't live in woods. Why they never had Jack want anything of his son's, he was full term, died being delivered because that quack doctor didn't think she needed a C section. I read Jack said no initially wanting to be "positive" but honestly can't remember that far back and only hope Rebecca had a say in her own delivery. I had natural but they kept an eye on the heartbeats. I never liked that whole scenerio as a reason to bring Randall in. I know he had to be brought in, but they still could have honored Kyle. I can't even imagine it in my mind. I know everyone is different but Rebecca deserved to have a chance to see him later, breathe and mourn. Randall still could have come.

Edited April 7, 2022 by debraran

[PRgal]

12 hours ago, debraran said:

I also think shaming Toby for not feeling 100% onboard with Jack's disability and looking for "cures" is not unusual and not to be shamed. I know with deafness or almost deafness, parents look into implants and whether they should or not, looking into surgery if he read something about it is not a crime. There are articles and support groups and many poems that tell of a parents dream of a child being altered a bit and their acceptance and love. He loves his son, that was a cheap shot. Of course counseling is never mentioned in this show because it would have to fail or make the show boring? Randall I assume still talks to someone and I know would be open to his children seeing one.

Yes and no.  I have 70% or so hearing loss in one ear and I've learned to live with it.  Those of us who have some sort of disability don't want to be changed.  I also think parents who don't have a condition are more obsessed with "curing" their child than those who DO.  I'm part of a social media group for parents whose kids wear glasses and there are parents there who seem crushed that their kids are more often complimented on their glasses than their appearance or outfit (especially moms of girls).  Ummm, what's wrong with glasses?  And if the glasses are cute, then the glasses are cute.  And we shouldn't teach kids to think appearance/looking pretty/cute/handsome/etc is the most imprortant thing.

 

9 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Agree. I think every parent wants their kids’ lives to be as easy as possible. He looked into ways to do that. It’s not like he GOT Little Jack surgery that did t work. He looked into it and then dropped it. Also visually impaired adults have surgery to correct their vision all the time. LASIK is popular. I’m low-key considering it myself.

Except Jack's condition can't be corrected by LASIK.  And you have to be over 25 to get it, I think.  I thought about getting it done myself a few years ago but chickened out.  I'm getting older now and will need reading glasses in about a decade anyway, so I'll just stick to my contacts and glasses, thank you.

 

12 hours ago, debraran said:

Parents with children who can see also have alarms on doors, bells etc and cameras. With a child who is blind, I am surprised she didn't have inexpensive or more expensive (from Kevin) for her own peace of mind. My friend had something on the floor that made a noise, worked for dog or child getting too close.

I found a rail that was about a foot high to put on my son's bed at Jack's age since he moved a lot and had a higher bed than some. But I guess this is TV and common sense things don't write scripts.

Same.  My son is a few months older than Jack and I worry about him all the time.  

[Empress1]

1 minute ago, PRgal said:

Except Jack's condition can't be corrected by LASIK.  And you have to be over 25 to get it, I think. 

I wasn’t suggesting that Jack get LASIK. I know  toddlers can’t get it. (I think the timing is about whether your vision is stable - if your vision is still fluctuating, it doesn’t make sense to do it. 25 is kind of arbitrary but vision changes tend to lessen as we get out of adolescence, assuming that it was in decline before then.) My point is that it’s not wrong or unusual for a parent to want their child’s life to be as easy as possible, being sighted is likely easier than being blind, and that even adults who aren’t totally blind are willing to at least consider taking surgical measures to correct their vision so there’s nothing weird about Toby looking into it for his son.

[GeorgiaRai]

20 hours ago, pennben said:

Periodic reminder that Toby taking job in SF was supposed to be temporary. Toby lied by omission that he was offered job back in LA. Said it was beneath him & salary cut when busted. Refused to disclose proposed salary. Later admitted not taking job wasn’t about money. Unilaterally changed plan that only way to save marriage was for Kate to move to SF. That’s just this season for things he’s done  

Mostly doing this for giggles, but sometimes I feel like facts we have actually been shown get rejected in interpreting all things in Toby’s favor while wanting to push all blame to Kate. 

Lord knows she’s got a long list of her own, but those feel well covered. 

My issue with this is that there isn't just one way to interpret the "facts."  Our personalities & experiences affect our perspective and influence who we like / believe / side with while we watch. 

To me, Toby did not "lie by omission".  Not everything we neglect or decide not to tell our partners is a lie. Some people think spouses need to tell each other everything; some trust that if something doesn't come up in general conversation, it was probably just forgotten or unimportant - not a secret or betrayal.

On the other hand, I would not immediately jump to suspicion and accusation of my spouse - much less childishly stalk out of a business gathering - over one comment.  I was surprised that Kate, after such a short period of Toby working hybrid between home & SF, had so much animosity toward him that just the mention of the job offer sent her into such a snit - before she had any information about it at all!  She didn't ask Toby - she confronted him after making a scene, and insinuated he was lying about it.  I relate to Toby here in that I would've stopped answering, too, if I were spoken to that way.

Some people will identify/sympathize with being lied to.  Some, though, will identify with being wrongly accused of lying.  Some people think spouses need to tell each other everything; some trust that if something doesn't come up in general conversation, it's probably just unimportant - not a secret or betrayal.

I felt The Hill episode was really unfair to Toby's character.  This episode - while still sad, since I hate the divorce story line - was more even-handed; it did a better job of just telling the story and letting us interpret the actions & motives of the characters.  

Edited April 8, 2022 by GeorgiaRai
Grammar matters!

[pennben]

She confronted him because he lied by omission to her on a pretty huge piece of information—-that he could have had a job back in LA as they planned. 

Toby: Does something wrong

Audience: Damnit Kate, why did you make him do this wrong thing & why don’t you react perfectly when Toby’s breached your trust again?

Me: stop making me point out when Kate has a point. 

[Empress1]

9 minutes ago, GeorgiaRai said:

much less childishly stalk out of a business gathering

It really was childish of her to do that. These are her husband's colleagues, who she was enjoying before (except the guy who was explaining his highly technical job to her, but he was just boring, not mean or anything) and who had been warm and welcoming to her. She could have whispered in Toby's ear that she wanted to leave, slapped on a smile to tell their host goodbye, and then gotten into all that when they got back to the apartment. I get that she was mad, but there's a time and a place for all that. Doing it that abruptly at her husband's work function was tacky.

[Pattycake2]

I call BS on the whole leak thing. A leak on the ceiling from a pipe would come from a second-floor bathroom, washer or dryer, or other appliance that requires a water pipe. Kates house does not have a second floor so there is no reason to have pipes in the ceiling. In addition, a pipe leak in the ceiling would produce a slow stain unless it was completely broken. The ceiling leak in Kates house would have come from the roof or loose siding or clogged  gutters. Turning off the water to the house would not have helped at all.

[Cosmocrush]

30 minutes ago, Pattycake2 said:

I call BS on the whole leak thing. A leak on the ceiling from a pipe would come from a second-floor bathroom, washer or dryer, or other appliance that requires a water pipe.  Kates house does not have a second floor so there is no reason to have pipes in the ceiling. In addition, a pipe leak in the ceiling would produce a slow stain unless it was completely broken. The ceiling leak in Kates house would have come from the roof or loose siding or clogged  gutters. Turning off the water to the house would not have helped at all.

I don't know about that but I do know that one day, out of the clear blue sky (no previous problems) water started gushing out the ceiling light fixture in my kitchen!  I do have a second floor but the room above has NO water pipes; apparently it "traveled from the bathroom on the other side.   Anyway it was a big mess for about two weeks and I did get a new bathroom, lol. 

 

 

[GeorgiaRai]

57 minutes ago, pennben said:

She confronted him because he lied by omission 

I understand that's your perspective; I just see it very differently.  He got some information that was meaningless - a joke, in his words - not worth consideration.  Not everything you keep to yourself is a lie.   

Your theoretical conversation assumes everyone agrees Toby did "something wrong".  But we don't all agree on that.  Or at least I don't agree on that (don't want to speak for anyone else.)  

[madmax]

19 hours ago, ProudMary said:

I think the bright, talented, young actor who plays Jack Damon misspoke when he said "apples and pants" and Chris Sullivan just rolled with it. Who knows how many takes they might have already done? My bet is that Toby used fruit flavored wood chips while smoking the meat. Perhaps "apples and pears" might have been the line he was supposed to say?

I actually heard it as "apples and pears."  Wasn't until I came here and saw "apples and pants" that I replayed it and heard the pants.  So yeah, I agree.  He just rolled with it.

Damn, that kid is awesome.

5 hours ago, Captain Asshat said:

Siblings should not be put ahead of a spouse or should they interfere in this way. 

I cut one of my brothers out of my life for years because he A) borrowed my husband's ATV and returned it damaged without any offer of repair or even "I'm sorry;" then B) accused my husband of breaking one of his tools that my husband did not (I found out later that HE broke it right after my husband returned it, but figured we'd take the blame anyway) and he was talking shit about my husband to the rest of my family.  It wasn't until one of my other brothers got terminal cancer did I talk to him again.

Your spouse/children should ALWAYS come before your siblings.  But the Pearsons don't quite get that.

[PepSinger]

I will say there were some things I genuinely enjoyed about the episode.

Jack — he is such a good actor. That kid is so adorable that I almost bursted into tears. Give that kid an Emmy. He was the best part of the episode.

I loved Beth’s “me neither” when Kate expressed surprise that they showed up for the party. Cause yeah, not many people would travel cross country for an anniversary BBQ, lol.

Randall and Kevin in the car was funny.

I didn’t like that we didn’t get to see Rebecca and Miguel’s anniversary or flashbacks to their wedding. I love Jack, but this episode shouldn’t have had flashbacks to Rebecca and Jack’s anniversary. It was odd.

 

[Crs97]

18 minutes ago, GeorgiaRai said:

understand that's your perspective; I just see it very differently.  He got some information that was meaningless - a joke, in his words - not worth consideration.  Not everything you keep to yourself is a lie.   

Your theoretical conversation assumes everyone agrees Toby did "something wrong".  But we don't all agree on that.  Or at least I don't agree on that (don't want to speak for anyone else.)  

Can I please sit with you, GeorgiaRai?  

The only time I have put my foot down against a job offer for MrCRS is when he talked about accepting a job he would hate because it would mean more money for us.  Otherwise, I trust his decisions for his career; he gets many calls from headhunters and sometimes I find out but most I don’t ever know about because they aren’t worth discussing.  That Kate wants Toby to quit a job he absolutely loves blows my mind.

[debraran]

Anyone have an idea why they had Toby and Kate adopt their daughter? I thought it was odd that they were picked, not so much because of Chrissy's weight, that shouldn't impede but I thought as a mom, her having a child so young with a disability that needed a lot of time and learning, they wouldn't be my top pick. They rarely show her or interact with her or even mention her in passing. I just feel with breaking them up and the show ending, was it for something Dan thought of after? Maybe a spinoff?

[Empress1]

9 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

Randall and Kevin in the car was funny.

When he batted the phone out of Kevin's hand like a cat, I cracked up.

It's now two people, Randall and Cassidy, who have told Kevin that he makes impulsive romantic decisions that often leave chaos in their wake. I wonder if he'll take that to heart.

[Jeddah]

7 minutes ago, debraran said:

Anyone have an idea why they had Toby and Kate adopt their daughter? I thought it was odd that they were picked, not so much because of Chrissy's weight, that shouldn't impede but I thought as a mom, her having a child so young with a disability that needed a lot of time and learning, they wouldn't be my top pick. They rarely show her or interact with her or even mention her in passing. I just feel with breaking them up and the show ending, was it for something Dan thought of after? Maybe a spinoff?

Hailey’s birth mother picked them because she liked how they fought. Oops.

[Ohiopirate02]

38 minutes ago, GeorgiaRai said:

I understand that's your perspective; I just see it very differently.  He got some information that was meaningless - a joke, in his words - not worth consideration.  Not everything you keep to yourself is a lie.   

Your theoretical conversation assumes everyone agrees Toby did "something wrong".  But we don't all agree on that.  Or at least I don't agree on that (don't want to speak for anyone else.)  

I fall into the camp that if the LA offer was really a joke, then Toby would have told her the number when Kate asked.  He didn't and got super defensive.  The fact is, it was a good offer but it didn't fit the narrative that Toby wanted for the family.   So,.he decided not to tell Kate about it and woo her into moving up to SF.  Which, at least in my opinion,  Kate would have agreed to after that weekend.  Sure she was sad about moving, but who wouldn't be?  She told she wasn't ready to move after finding out, yet again,  Toby kept something big from her.  

[GeorgiaRai]

4 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I fall into the camp that if the LA offer was really a joke, then Toby would have told her the number when Kate asked.  He didn't and got super defensive.  The fact is, it was a good offer but it didn't fit the narrative that Toby wanted for the family.   So,.he decided not to tell Kate about it and woo her into moving up to SF.  Which, at least in my opinion,  Kate would have agreed to after that weekend.  Sure she was sad about moving, but who wouldn't be?  She told she wasn't ready to move after finding out, yet again,  Toby kept something big from her.  

In that situation, I would've already been so put off by her actions at the party and the confrontational/accusatory attitude, I wouldn't have discussed it further, either.  Not saying that's the right or most mature response, but I related to Toby in that moment! 

"The fact is, it was a good offer..." assumes a lot that wasn't stated.  I mean, I assume a lot, too, but in the other direction (i.e. that it was NOT a good offer, and Toby knew that, all things considered, it wasn't practical or feasible to pursue it). 

[Adgirl]

I hope after the divorce Toby finds a woman that appreciates his ankle cleavage and tight shirts.

I agree with Kate that Jack should be taught more than his limitations. However Kate was awful when the leak happened. Just pick up the phone and call a plumber; berating Toby won't make the leak stop.

My mom taught us that nobody outside of the family messes with us so it brought a smile to my face to see the big three protecting each other from the babysitter.

I I really don't care at this point who Kevin marries--his love life bores me now.

I don't hate Toby or Kate so this episode was kind of meh for me. 

[Ohmo]

1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

Can I please sit with you, GeorgiaRai?

Make room for me as well.  And I don't remember either of them saying that this would be a temporary job for Toby.  Maybe a temporary living situation until it became possible for Kate to move with the kids to SF.  Toby's got a major job.  He's not driving for Uber doing gig work or working for a temp agency.  I never took his to be the "temporary" position" at all.

[Ohmo]

48 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I fall into the camp that if the LA offer was really a joke, then Toby would have told her the number when Kate asked.  He didn't and got super defensive.  The fact is, it was a good offer but it didn't fit the narrative that Toby wanted for the family. 

I fall into the camp that the offer was not a good offer and Toby knew that if he told Kate any number that was attached to a job in LA, she would start spinning any narrative about how they could make it work so she wouldn't have to move.  She is hell-bent against moving simply because she doesn't want to move.

[Ohmo]

40 minutes ago, Adgirl said:

I agree with Kate that Jack should be taught more than his limitations.

That's another thing that Toby is accused of that I don't see happening.  Toby is researching Braille readers and other technologies that Jack might need because he's blind.  Toby also said it in their conversation in SF: What about when Jack wants to live independently?

Toby is asking, considering, and planning for things that are going to happen, and Kate sees that as focusing on Jack's limitations?  Sorry, no.  Jack is blind.  Toby is trying to put his hands on every opportunity he can to put Jack in a position of success.

I'll give Kate credit for teaching Jack the song so that he can develop his capabilities to function in a society where disability isn't the status quo. Toby is doing the same thing with technology that Kate is doing with the song, but she only perceives her help in a positive way.  Anything that Toby does is unhelpful or negative, and IMO, that's simply not true.

[hoosiergirl]

5 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I would never wish the death of the mother of two young children. They have not shown Kate being abusive, robbing or murdering anyone. Why does she deserve to be dead? 

Because she’s a horrible fictional character on a not even remotely realistic show and she sucks. 

[ProudMary]

14 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

That's another thing that Toby is accused of that I don't see happening.  Toby is researching Braille readers and other technologies that Jack might need because he's blind.  Toby also said it in their conversation in SF: What about when Jack wants to live independently?

Toby is asking, considering, and planning for things that are going to happen, and Kate sees that as focusing on Jack's limitations?  Sorry, no.  Jack is blind.  Toby is trying to put his hands on every opportunity he can to put Jack in a position of success.

I'll give Kate credit for teaching Jack the song so that he can develop his capabilities to function in a society where disability isn't the status quo. Toby is doing the same thing with technology that Kate is doing with the song, but she only perceives her help in a positive way.  Anything that Toby does is unhelpful or negative, and IMO, that's simply not true.

I completely agree with what's been said here. There is almost always more than one way to approach an issue. Jack could have benefited greatly by the approaches of each of his parents. Coming together as a team would best serve Jack's interest. One approach would not negate the other, but in Kate's "I'm a single parent" mindset, only she knows what's best for Jack. 

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, GeorgiaRai said:

“The fact is, it was a good offer..." assumes a lot that wasn't stated.  I mean, I assume a lot, too, but in the other direction (i.e. that it was NOT a good offer, and Toby knew that, all things considered, it wasn't practical or feasible to pursue it). 

I agree. Toby described it as a “middling job that didn’t pay real money.” so I’m inclined to believe that. He was saying that the technology that he was researching for Jack (again: a good thing to do, as @Ohmo points out) wouldn’t be affordable on that salary. 

The other thing is that if they couldn’t afford a plumber when Toby wasn’t working, they probably have some catching up to do re: their finances - that was the case for me when I started working after a layoff. Him making good money (and enjoying the work! When many people, well-paid or not, dislike their jobs!) really is not a bad thing.

[wonderwoman]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

Anyone have an idea why they had Toby and Kate adopt their daughter? I thought it was odd that they were picked, not so much because of Chrissy's weight, that shouldn't impede but I thought as a mom, her having a child so young with a disability that needed a lot of time and learning, they wouldn't be my top pick. They rarely show her or interact with her or even mention her in passing. I just feel with breaking them up and the show ending, was it for something Dan thought of after? Maybe a spinoff?

yeah — logic. looking for it gives me a headache. 

[Irate Panda]

I hate all these people with the exception of Miguel and Beth.  I have moved a mattress by myself and I’m tinier than all these people.  Kevin and Kate ganging up on Toby was typical.  Randall, I somewhat excuse because I think he was trying to make sure something didn’t happen between Kevin and Toby, but basically yet again it’s the Pearsons against everyone else 🙄 

Kevin and Kate should just move into together and keep their codependency to themselves.  They can just blabber away at each other until one of the keels over and drops dead a la Brenda and Billy on Six Feet Under (although too great of a show to compare to this slop)

Kate is a bitch…I don’t even like Toby but I don’t know how he can stand being around her.  She whines when he’s not there and complains when he is there.  Also, Toby could have just went to the bedroom and handed Jack off to the “70 year old mother” or honestly Kate could have probably just shoved the mattress off the boxspring enough to stand it on its side so the two 70 year olds and she could have pushed it into the hall or from under the hole until Toby got there.  It’s not they like had to hoist it over their head .  With that said, Toby could have just left Jack with Beth or handed him off in the mattress room.  

If I were Beth or Miguel I would refuse to go to anymore family gatherings unless I was as liquored up as Rebecca in the flashback.

 

* Baby Jack is adorable!!!

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

The other thing is that if they couldn’t afford a plumber when Toby wasn’t working, they probably have some catching up to do re: their finances - that was the case for me when I started working after a layoff. Him making good money (and enjoying the work! When many people, well-paid or not, dislike their jobs!) really is not a bad thing.

I don't think that they actually couldn't afford a plumber. I think Toby just wanted to avoid any non-essential expenses while he wasn't bringing in a salary. He thought he could handle fixing the leak by himself. Maybe the fact that he was at home all day also played into it. His confidence was really shaken from the layoff and subsequent long job search, so he just wanted to feel useful again. 

[qtpye]

4 hours ago, debraran said:

Anyone have an idea why they had Toby and Kate adopt their daughter? I thought it was odd that they were picked, not so much because of Chrissy's weight, that shouldn't impede but I thought as a mom, her having a child so young with a disability that needed a lot of time and learning, they wouldn't be my top pick. They rarely show her or interact with her or even mention her in passing. I just feel with breaking them up and the show ending, was it for something Dan thought of after? Maybe a spinoff?

 

3 hours ago, Jeddah said:

Hailey’s birth mother picked them because she liked how they fought. Oops.

Whenever you have a logical and rational question like this the answer is always...because she is a Pearson.

[pennben]

I can’t even anymore!!😀. All the best for St. Toby of the Nice Guys, doer of no wrong in the relationship!

Edited April 8, 2022 by pennben

[CrystalBlue]

3 hours ago, Ohmo said:

Make room for me as well.  And I don't remember either of them saying that this would be a temporary job for Toby.  Maybe a temporary living situation until it became possible for Kate to move with the kids to SF.  Toby's got a major job.  He's not driving for Uber doing gig work or working for a temp agency.  I never took his to be the "temporary" position" at all.

Toby said that at first it would have to be him in SF during the week and then he'd see about arranging to work remotely more if possible.  I don't remember him saying that the SF job was temporary until an LA job opened up either.

Where the hell does Kate think she's getting medical insurance coverage as a dependent along with their two children?  That's got to be a huge benefit from Toby's SF job right there.  No matter how much she wants to leech off her rich brother, Kevin is not able to insure his sister, niece and nephew through his own health insurance coverage.

[pennben]

Are you suggesting that upon divorce Toby has no obligation at all to provide his children insurance coverage?  Great deal for him!!

[debraran]

4 hours ago, qtpye said:

 

Whenever you have a logical and rational question like this the answer is always...because she is a Pearson.

Yes how did I forget that! ☺️

[cameron]

9 hours ago, Cosmocrush said:

I don't know about that but I do know that one day, out of the clear blue sky (no previous problems) water started gushing out the ceiling light fixture in my kitchen!  I do have a second floor but the room above has NO water pipes; apparently it "traveled from the bathroom on the other side.   Anyway it was a big mess for about two weeks and I did get a new bathroom, lol. 

 

 

Had the same thing happen to us but ours was caused by an air conditioner 's block drainage tube.  Big water bubble, then down it came.

[gameshowjunkie]

On 4/6/2022 at 4:56 PM, txhorns79 said:

There has not been another flash forward when he spoke about it.  I have to think someone must have told him at some point what happened that day to cause his scar.  Though obviously it is pure Pearson to keep around some highly symbolic reminder of trauma.

How odd.  I was under the impression that term was only used for first time mothers 35 and older.  I wasn't aware of it ever being used for first time mothers under 30, and Google indicates that the average age for a first time married mother in the early 80s was about 26.

"Advanced maternal age(AMA)" was 35 when my son was born 19 years ago. He was born three weeks before I turned 35, so I narrowly escaped the label. Pretty ridiculous as most of my friends had their kids in their 30s and 40s and did just fine.

[mansonlamps]

15 hours ago, Captain Asshat said:

I agree with you. Siblings should not be put ahead of a spouse or should they interfere in this way. That said, my ex is a twin. In general, twins are in each other's business, they will defend each other, and they will put each other ahead of a spouse. I was even told as much early in our relationship -- if it came down to something between me and the twin, I would not "win." So I think the show gets this dynamic absolutely right.

I get this,  but I can't imagine marrying someone who said this to me.   It's like marrying a guy who already has kids saying my kids will always come first.   It's absolutely the right thing to do and the way it should be,  but why am I entering into a relationship where my needs and wants are always dead last in the family?

[Crs97]

7 hours ago, Irate Panda said:

Also, Toby could have just went to the bedroom and handed Jack off to the “70 year old mother”

“Oh my god, Toby, why are you bringing him in here where all the water is gushing?!?!  Don’t try to hand him to one of us.  Mom can’t take him!  She is all wet, and that water is probably filled with bacteria!  It’s like you just want Jack to get sick!  Don’t you know anything?  Or do you just not even think about us at all?”

[Ohiopirate02]

6 hours ago, pennben said:

I can’t even anymore!!😀. All the best for St. Toby of the Nice Guys, doer of no wrong in the relationship!

And even when he does wrong, it's still Kate's fault. 

[Ohiopirate02]

10 hours ago, Ohmo said:

That's another thing that Toby is accused of that I don't see happening.  Toby is researching Braille readers and other technologies that Jack might need because he's blind.  Toby also said it in their conversation in SF: What about when Jack wants to live independently?

Toby is asking, considering, and planning for things that are going to happen, and Kate sees that as focusing on Jack's limitations?  Sorry, no.  Jack is blind.  Toby is trying to put his hands on every opportunity he can to put Jack in a position of success.

I'll give Kate credit for teaching Jack the song so that he can develop his capabilities to function in a society where disability isn't the status quo. Toby is doing the same thing with technology that Kate is doing with the song, but she only perceives her help in a positive way.  Anything that Toby does is unhelpful or negative, and IMO, that's simply not true.

What Toby is failing to do is talk to Kate about his research.  When he brought up assistive tech in their fight Kate already knew about it.  Their biggest issue is their inability to actually have a conversation about major stuff like this.  They can have different approaches, but they need to talk about them and come to a consensus about what's best for Jack.  Same thing with their different approaches to Jack and food.  Another case where instead of talking about it together we get Toby passive-aggressively undermining Kate's actions at the dinner table.  He's being reactive instead of proactive.  Yes, Jack is Toby's son too and he deserves to have a say in how he is raised, but you cannot have a say when you refuse to speak.  

I know someone will chime in here saying something to the effect that Toby is afraid to talk to Kate because of how she will react.  I have never seen that on the show.  I think it's a cop out by Toby.