S01.E08: Tucked Up in Newport

[AntFTW]

When Peggy first sought out a Pennsylvania lawyer, who ultimately turned out to be Raikes, my theory was that she had a husband back in Pennsylvania who she was now trying to divorce. When Peggy said she was married, I wasn't shocked but I wasn't prepared for the other parts of the story.

[buckboard]

5 hours ago, hatchetgirl said:

I'm worried he totally did that - just for his own amusement.  It was his suggestion to check out the house while The Mrs. Astor was away, so I don't see how we can really blame Bertha.  

It makes no sense that McAllister would have set up Bertha.  How would that have benefited him if Mrs. Astor had found Bertha in her home?  She would have seen McAllister's carriage parked in clear view and would know he was the one who brought Bertha there.  (Not to mention that her chief butler had let them in, which was another mess.)  

McAllister and Astor were related and with her social standing and support, he was able to work with her as gatekeepers to The 400.  He wouldn't ruin his working reputation with her if she was likely to find  out he had snuck someone into her mansion that she didn't find socially acceptable.  (Mrs. Astor knew Ward and his other visitor, so that wouldn't have upset her to find them there.)

ETA: Rewatching just the clip of Mrs. Astor's arrival, her butler says "She's arrived early!"  So McAllister didn't know Mrs. Astor was arriving a day before she was expected.  (Neither did her butler.)

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by buckboard

[Atlanta]

49 minutes ago, Macbeth1966 said:

I understand problematic accents.  I hate how people butcher the Boston accent.  Especially Matt Damon and Ben Affleck who grew up in the Boston area and should know better.  Good  Will Hunting is a good movie - but those accents.....

As a southerner, usually only folks raised in the SE can get the accent right a la Sandra Bullock, Reese Witherspoon, Dennis Quaid, Renee Zellweger, Julia Roberts, etc. The exceptions are Emma Stone and Jessica Chastain in "The Help." Usually, it's a sore thumb and distracting.

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, hatchetgirl said:

But she didn't ask and she didn't bribe, it was McAllister that offered and McAllister who bribed.  McAllister is playing the "oh but i'm such good friends with Mrs. Astor, she won't be here for days, I'll take you over there."  

Not that this would probably help Bertha if she was found out. Astor would say she should have turned him down even if she was also mad at McAllister.

56 minutes ago, Macbeth1966 said:

I understand problematic accents.  I hate how people butcher the Boston accent.  Especially Matt Damon and Ben Affleck who grew up in the Boston area and should know better.  Good  Will Hunting is a good movie - but those accents.....

I'll just leave this here...

 

[BellyLaughter]

On 3/15/2022 at 2:30 PM, ZeeEnnui said:

People that aren't Marion: "That lawyer of yours is super sketchy. He is working that social ladder like its a stripper pole. Watch your back."

Marion: "Red flags. Those would look lovely in my bouquet."

People that aren't Marion: "Are you really that stupid?"

Marion: "Totes. Getting married to a bland dude that I don't know is exactly what weak ass rebel poseurs like myself do to make a point. Viva la revolution!"

Are Mamie or Grace Gummer available next season for a Marian recast so their little sister can explore other off camera career opportunities?

Armstrong should spend her days off working on her nuance. If she had an eeevil mustache, she'd be twirling it. 

Creepy Doll Party lady is all about those sick social burns. LOL.

Peggy's story. Secret marriage and dead baby. Yawn. Also, stop crying Marian. Not everything is about you. 

Don't be jelly, John Q Adams. Do you really want to be f*** buddies with a dude that dresses like an alternate in the Newport Barbershop Quartet? Find you someone whose more into Bachelors than Beards. 

Bertha's Chicken Walk of Shame was hilarious. 

On Law & Order: Gilded Age. It was the Dorota in the Bloomingdales with the deceitful Dixon's charge card. Even Jack McCoy couldn't win a case that quickly. Also, I feel like the writers got super bored with the court case and just wanted George to walk with a preposterously easy solution to his problem. 

I have a theory that next week when Dumdum in Yellow goes to run off with Raikes, it will be George that saves her from ruin as a thank you for being at the right counter at the right time. This will force Agnes to acknowledge the Russells which will cause all kinds of issues next season. But eventually Agnes and Bertha will end up besties trading barbs like the Dowager Countess and Cousin Isobel. 

Yes please!  You just know those 2 are destined to become firm friends lol

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 3/15/2022 at 8:06 PM, DiabLOL said:

What on earth does “safe as brandy” mean?

Yeah.  What does that mean?

11 hours ago, limestation said:

Some of the acting is just criminally bad (Marian)

Okay, I know pretty much nothing about acting, but her performance hasn't bothered me because I assume it's true to her character--that Marian is plain and kind of dim.  What am I getting wrong?

[marybennet]

On 3/15/2022 at 1:17 PM, blackwing said:

I've always thought the job of a valet is kind of strange.  I get that ladies needed help buttoning their clothes at the back.  But why does a man need help?

The valet took care of your clothes, among other things—a bigger task in those days!

[Macbeth1966]

On 3/15/2022 at 7:57 PM, Noneofyourbusiness said:

It would work if he's lying to Marian about what her father's stocks are worth but he doesn't have a way of using them on his own.

You would be amazed at the amount of stealing that goes on in probate. 

If he was named Executor - he would have the right to have access to those assets so that they can be distributed according to the Will.  And some of it could end up in his pocket.  

Marian is a perfect victim for this.  Her father never told her what the assets were so she no clue.  She just signed on the dotted line.  And even if she asked for an accounting - how would she know.  He could leave many things off the inventory.

[Roseanna]

On 3/15/2022 at 8:59 PM, Sakura12 said:

Being uneducated doesn't mean someone is stupid. He could've been a smart guy who didn't have the means to get a proper education. Or he could've been really good looking and Peggy fell for that. Educated people can make stupid mistakes too especially when they are young. 

Of course this man Peggy fell for can be smart. And he could get information f.ex. by reading by himself.  

But if he is smart, why did he work for Peggy's father? That alone shows that he has enough means to provide a family, except in a very modest style (unless Peggy's father helps).

There had been a lot of suspicions towards Raikes who wants to marry Marian at once and doesn't care about her reputation. But at least he has a profession and can therefore offer her a life according a middle class standards.  

Instead, Peggy's beau persuaded her to elope and made her at once pregnant. If he had really cared for her, he would have said: "Let's wait, I want first to become worthy of you. And you must be free to use your writing talents."

I strongly suspect that Peggy's father was right about him. 

As for Peggy, if fell for a man for a wrong kind, it was necessarily a bad thing for a writer.

  

[Lassus]

22 hours ago, izabella said:

But I thought she HAD a great story line.  Young, beautiful, smart, and getting her writing career off the ground already.  The stories of wealthy black families during this time has not been mined at all, so I was hoping they would show us wealthy black society.  I wanted to see Peggy setting the world on fire with her writing, and setting her hot publisher on fire with love and admiration. 

But now, or soon, her story will be about being a single mom (because you know Schrodinger's baby will be found alive), and that was a career limiting move back then, as it often is even now.  Or maybe Elias kept the baby, and he'll be back with child in tow, and then it will be about Peggy trying to get her baby back the rest of the show. 

There is so much rich story telling they could do!  But I fear Peggy will now just be another lame baby mama story.

Jesus, this times 1000000.  I honestly hope everyone is totally wrong about her baby being alive somewhere, as that would be the lamest soap-opera crap ever.

11 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

What am I getting wrong?

Nothing, IMO.

[PRgal]

14 hours ago, AntFTW said:

When Peggy first sought out a Pennsylvania lawyer, who ultimately turned out to be Raikes, my theory was that she had a husband back in Pennsylvania who she was now trying to divorce. When Peggy said she was married, I wasn't shocked but I wasn't prepared for the other parts of the story.

So you think they’re still legally married?  I thought it was annulled.  And if they’re still legally married, why is Peggy still a Scott and not whatever Elias’s last name is?  

[alalaxmom]

The Foghorn Leghorn accent is alive and well in Alabama in almost every politician trying to get elected "guv-nuh" and move into the mansion in "Mun-gum-reh." (Montgomery) Sadly, Nathan Lane's attempt is not too far off from our current governor, Kay Ivey.

[chaifan]

11 hours ago, Macbeth1966 said:

You would be amazed at the amount of stealing that goes on in probate. 

If he was named Executor - he would have the right to have access to those assets so that they can be distributed according to the Will.  And some of it could end up in his pocket.  

Marian is a perfect victim for this.  Her father never told her what the assets were so she no clue.  She just signed on the dotted line.  And even if she asked for an accounting - how would she know.  He could leave many things off the inventory.

Yes, Raikes could have stolen from Brooks estate as his attorney.  But none of this explains why he would have to marry Marian to get to Brooks' supposed wealth, he could have just pocketed it and Marian would be none the wiser.  And, as I mentioned above, he brushed off a relative of the Astors - if he was just a gold digger, he would have been all over her.  There's no way Marian's father had hidden wealth that would be greater than an Astor.

[AntFTW]

8 minutes ago, PRgal said:

So you think they’re still legally married?  I thought it was annulled.  And if they’re still legally married, why is Peggy still a Scott and not whatever Elias’s last name is?

Well, that was my theory before Peggy gave her explanation.

…and yes, I believe Peggy said it was annulled.

[chaifan]

22 hours ago, MollyB said:

I have no basis for this theory and I don't pay attention well enough when I watch to pick up on details, but....if Raikes is hiding her fortune perhaps it's from the mother's side.  I didn't really pay attention to Marion's backstory regarding her mother so this is just conjecture.  Perhaps the mother's family put money into a trust for Marion that she could only receive after her father died so he couldn't get his hands on it.

Decent theory, but there's no way Marian's mother could be from such a wealthy family and neither Ada nor Agnes knew about it. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

15 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I'll just leave this here...

 

Seth Meyers grew up in New Hampshire and Rachel Dratch is originally from Lexington, so they actually do a pretty decent job with the accent. 

But anyway, as it relates to McAllister, I think it has to have been a choice by Nathan Lane to go so over the top. One thing I have noticed that they haven't chosen to adopt is the lock-jawed accent that started to develop among this set in that era. (Caroline Kennedy is one of the few people in contemporary society who still speaks in that way). When I visited Newport years ago, they talked about how that accent became a signifier of wealth and status. It was interesting but no one on The Gilded Age really has it.

[sistermagpie]

6 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Seth Meyers grew up in New Hampshire and Rachel Dratch is originally from Lexington, so they actually do a pretty decent job with the accent. 

But anyway, as it relates to McAllister, I think it has to have been a choice by Nathan Lane to go so over the top. One thing I have noticed that they haven't chosen to adopt is the lock-jawed accent that started to develop among this set in that era. (Caroline Kennedy is one of the few people in contemporary society who still speaks in that way). When I visited Newport years ago, they talked about how that accent became a signifier of wealth and status. It was interesting but no one on The Gilded Age really has it.

It seems like the only people who are maybe trying to do accents that aren't modern is maybe Nathan Lane (though as has been discussed, it seems like his character might be theatrical himself) and the Newsie doing the old New Yawk accent.

[MollyB]

As to the "safe as brandy" question:

I got this on the Quora website.

"Brandy is good once a week as it heats your body from inside and helpful in pulling out cough from your chest.

It is generally preferred as medicine in India. Which is generally taken with warm water or warm water and honey in small quantity (Ex: 30 ml or 60 ml max).

It is more suitable to have once in week during winters that too in limited quantity as mentioned above.

Note: Anything that you consume in excess will harm your health and body.

Its better to not make it a habit and have once fortnightly."

My first thought was the Oceans 11 movie (Clooney one) when Carl Reiner delivers the line about the hotel safe is for Grandmother's pearls and old brandy.

I'm thinking Agnes meant that nobody gets drunk on something like brandy, therefore it is safe.

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by MollyB

[hatchetgirl]

16 hours ago, buckboard said:

It makes no sense that McAllister would have set up Bertha.  How would that have benefited him if Mrs. Astor had found Bertha in her home?  She would have seen McAllister's carriage parked in clear view and would know he was the one who brought Bertha there.  (Not to mention that her chief butler had let them in, which was another mess.)  

Ah!  Yeah, that makes more sense than McAllister just being a dick to be a dick. LOL

[JenE4]

1 hour ago, MollyB said:

As to the "safe as brandy" question:

I got this on the Quora website.

"Brandy is good once a week as it heats your body from inside and helpful in pulling out cough from your chest.

It is generally preferred as medicine in India. Which is generally taken with warm water or warm water and honey in small quantity (Ex: 30 ml or 60 ml max).

It is more suitable to have once in week during winters that too in limited quantity as mentioned above.

Note: Anything that you consume in excess will harm your health and body.

Its better to not make it a habit and have once fortnightly."

My first thought was the Oceans 11 movie (Clooney one) when Carl Reiner delivers the line about the hotel safe is for Grandmother's pearls and old brandy.

I'm thinking Agnes meant that nobody gets drunk on something like brandy, therefore it is safe.

 

I thought it was ironic, as in the opposite—with everyone drinking practically constantly back then, brandy isn’t safe around here. So whatever they were talking about (don’t even recall what at this point) is actually unsafe. But, who the heck knows. Maybe that’s going to be Boudin’s “double life” as a bootlegger. You only think the brandy is safe around here! Lol.

 

[BeatrixK]

On 3/15/2022 at 6:57 PM, Noneofyourbusiness said:

It would work if he's lying to Marian about what her father's stocks are worth but he doesn't have a way of using them on his own.

Oh, would it be sweet if those stocks he is sitting on were in Russell's company.

Aunt Agnes would lose her shit of Marion turned up with a fortune thanks to the Russell's.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

17 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

I thought it was ironic, as in the opposite—with everyone drinking practically constantly back then, brandy isn’t safe around here. So whatever they were talking about (don’t even recall what at this point) is actually unsafe. But, who the heck knows. Maybe that’s going to be Boudin’s “double life” as a bootlegger. You only think the brandy is safe around here! Lol.

After wine is distilled into brandy, it's put in a brandy safe.

[sistermagpie]

16 minutes ago, BeatrixK said:

Oh, would it be sweet if those stocks he is sitting on were in Russell's company.

Aunt Agnes would lose her shit of Marion turned up with a fortune thanks to the Russell's.

I assumed it was some version of the expression "safe as houses," which referred to speculation on real estate rather than railroad speculation, which was riskier. So I thought maybe she was substituting brandy because that's another product that people would always steadily want and need.

[gail56]

On 3/14/2022 at 11:50 PM, ajsnaves said:

If anyone is curious about the Peshtigo Fire. (PESH-ti-go, not Pesh-TEA-go) As Jack said, it was the same day as the Chicago Fire, so it has been largely forgotten to History. Even though it was deadlier and costlier.  (Of course if you live in NE Wisconsin or the UP, your know all about it, since your Grandfather reminded you regularly when the Chicago Fire came up.  Or was that just me?)  I like Jack and Bridget together.  I hope we get more of them next season.

 

My father grew up in Peshtigo, so I knew about it. I didn't like the way they pronounced it.

[MBayGal]

On 3/15/2022 at 6:45 PM, BabyBella94 said:

Baudin lays out his double life."

Who is Baudin?

[chitowngirl]

10 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

Who is Baudin?

The Russells’ French chef

[Roseanna]

17 hours ago, chaifan said:

Yes, Raikes could have stolen from Brooks estate as his attorney.  But none of this explains why he would have to marry Marian to get to Brooks' supposed wealth, he could have just pocketed it and Marian would be none the wiser.  And, as I mentioned above, he brushed off a relative of the Astors - if he was just a gold digger, he would have been all over her.  There's no way Marian's father had hidden wealth that would be greater than an Astor.

I agree, it can't be both ways.

If Raikes has stolen Marian's legacy, he would have no motive to court her. If he is a gold digger, he would have changed her for a better catch. 

Maybe he is just a man who fell for her, is rather rash in courting and likes the society.  

On 3/17/2022 at 3:23 AM, StatisticalOutlier said:

Okay, I know pretty much nothing about acting, but her performance hasn't bothered me because I assume it's true to her character--that Marian is plain and kind of dim.  What am I getting wrong?

I think it's both writing and acting.

Whether Raikes is a rake or not, Marian should have been madly in love with him in order to plan to marry him, not because she wants oppose her aunt and anybody else who gives her advice not to.

[Carolina Girl]

On 3/16/2022 at 6:13 PM, Atlanta said:

As a southerner, usually only folks raised in the SE can get the accent right a la Sandra Bullock, Reese Witherspoon, Dennis Quaid, Renee Zellweger, Julia Roberts, etc. The exceptions are Emma Stone and Jessica Chastain in "The Help." Usually, it's a sore thumb and distracting.

Plus the idea that all Southern accents are the same.  Accents can even vary by state.  The Coastal drawl of Charleston is different than the accent found at the border of the two Carolinas.  My accent is that of the Coastal Plains of North Carolina, not the Mountain accent of Andy Griffith.  

[RachelKM]

10 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I think it's both writing and acting.

Whether Raikes is a rake or not, Marian should have been madly in love with him in order to plan to marry him, not because she wants oppose her aunt and anybody else who gives her advice not to.

Absolutely. The writing overall is week, not just for Marion.  The stories have been disjointed, rushed, and underdeveloped. Likewise, a lot of the characters have been relatively thinly drafted.

It's simply more apparent in the characters of Marian and Raikes because the performances aren't elevating the material the way Baranski, Coons, Benton, Nixon, and Spector's and even less central parts like McDonald and Tripplhorn's are. Hell, Armstrong's an undisputed asshole, but I find her more interesting after one story with her background than Marian has made me in her over 7 episodes or Raikes ever could.

We're speculating about Raikes in all directions because we haven't really been given much but a pleasant smile, a fixation on Marian, an adeptness with social climbing, and a couple of dodgy actions that could have been predatory or simply overeager.  But his performance isn't selling anything beyond the literal translation of what's on the page.

Likewise, with Marian, the dull-eyed placidity is Jacobson's. But the total lack of clear motivation comes from the writing.  Now, it's possible that in the hands of a more skilled and charismatic actress, she could sell confused but deep passion that isn't directly in the dialogue and find away to discern and play a motivation.  But nothing in the writing, either by word or deed, has provided more clarity either.

Which in turn adds another layer of mystery (and not the good kind) to Raikes in wondering what in hell he is attracted to in such an utter dimwit now that he has a foot into society and could definitely aim higher at least as to personality if not situation. It begs speculation that he has nefarious plans that explain his otherwise irrational attachment to such a vacant-eyed, passionless, clueless twit.

Edited March 18, 2022 by RachelKM

[Haleth]

On 3/16/2022 at 5:43 PM, tennisgurl said:

I really like this show, but they really need to cut down a few subplots.

Yes.  A lot of the downstairs subplots should have been saved for season 2.  Too much time is wasted on the bald valet stalking the woman and the antics of the young footman and maid.  I don't really care about any of them yet.  Still, I generally don't have a problem with the writing.  (It's more a pacing issue.)  This is a fun show and I watch for the dress and house porn.  And Aunt Agnes's one liners.

[nara]

Bertha tossed out through the back door might be the best scene in the whole series

[Shermie]

On 3/16/2022 at 9:23 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

her performance hasn't bothered me because I assume it's true to her character--that Marian is plain and kind of dim.  What am I getting wrong?

I don’t think she is plain; the actress and character are quite lovely. But her line delivery is so flat and lifeless, all the prettiness in the world can’t make her appealing.

It’s possible for a character to be shy or naive or dim, and still be interesting. Call the Midwife, for example, has had several characters that were reserved and naive, but they were still engaging as characters.

[Bumblebee84047]

On 3/14/2022 at 9:30 PM, ZeeEnnui said:

But eventually Agnes and Bertha will end up besties trading barbs like the Dowager Countess and Cousin Isobel. 

I would watch a series made up of episodes consisting of nothing but this.

[J-Man]

On 3/14/2022 at 9:31 PM, Jeddah said:

I feel like the wardrobe people weren’t even trying to hide Carrie Coon’s pregnancy. It was way too obvious in the Hamptons scenes.

"The Hamptons?" Did you not notice the title of the episode?

The Van Rhijn footman is always called "John" by Ada and Agnes, and he uses "Jack" with his fellow servants, I gather. But IMDB has his character's name as "Jack Treacher," while his mother's surname was revealed as "Trotter" in this episode. 

My prediction: Marian ends up humiliated by Raikes and runs away to River City,  Iowa, where she has an affair with Old Miser Madison and becomes the town librarian.

[Lassus]

On 3/18/2022 at 5:15 AM, Roseanna said:

Maybe he is just a man who fell for her, is rather rash in courting and likes the society.  

All the superfans watching would lose their goddamned minds.

[Affogato]

On 3/17/2022 at 10:59 AM, PRgal said:

So you think they’re still legally married?  I thought it was annulled.  And if they’re still legally married, why is Peggy still a Scott and not whatever Elias’s last name is?  

I'm not particularly well versed in the law but I found it odd a marriage could  be annulled between two people who had married and then had a child together, having presumably been together for a while. However: 

https://scholarlycommons.law.hofstra.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1261&context=faculty_scholarship

(from link, above):

" 1 7 California, whose law governed the cases in our study, had relatively permissive rules-on the books and in practice-governing both annulment and divorce at the turn of the century.18 Annulment was possible in case of any of six "defects": bigamy, physical incapacity, mental incompetence, infancy/lack of parental consent, fraud or force. "

Mr Scott, being a man of some stature in the community, might have put his word against the word of the couple and his money into hiring a legal expert and cobbled something together. 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2022 by Affogato

[J-Man]

38 minutes ago, Affogato said:

I'm not particularly well versed in the law but I found it odd a marriage could  be annulled between two people who had married and then had a child together, having presumably been together for a while. However: 

https://scholarlycommons.law.hofstra.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1261&context=faculty_scholarship

(from link, above):

" 1 7 California, whose law governed the cases in our study, had relatively permissive rules-on the books and in practice-governing both annulment and divorce at the turn of the century.18 Annulment was possible in case of any of six "defects": bigamy, physical incapacity, mental incompetence, infancy/lack of parental consent, fraud or force. "

Peggy stated that her husband was forced to sign something indicating he was still married; hence, the bigamy defect would be grounds for annulment.

[Affogato]

On 3/18/2022 at 2:18 PM, RachelKM said:

 

Which in turn adds another layer of mystery (and not the good kind) to Raikes in wondering what in hell he is attracted to in such an utter dimwit now that he has a foot into society and could definitely aim higher at least as to personality if not situation. It begs speculation that he has nefarious plans that explain his otherwise irrational attachment to such a vacant-eyed, passionless, clueless twit.

Utter dimwit seems excessive and in this last episode we've seen her practicing watercolor, so she has some education.  I think she was very sheltered by her father, if only to protect her from hearing stories about him and his fortunes, and is socially inexperienced. Agnes is exactly the kind of person someone that young--whether in age or experience--wouldn't listen to, and she isn't being provided with much in the way of guidance. 

Anyway, I think the actress has improved over the season and I think she may end up given more room as a character in the second season, one way or the other. so far she hasn't been asked to do much.

 

[Jeddah]

9 hours ago, J-Man said:

“The Hamptons?" Did you not notice the title of the episode?

 

I get my stuffy rich people places confused!

[Conotocarious]

I kind of liked Marion’s acting in the scene where Peggy reveals her secret. 

[KarenX]

25 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

I get my stuffy rich people places confused!

And I’ve been reading it as “Effed up in Newport,” which Bertha and Oscar most spectacularly did.

[mojito]

Armstrong is pretty much the same age as Agnes. Agnes really should consider getting a younger maid (or whatever that position is called) who will still be around as she (Agnes) gets even older. Agnes seems really short-sighted in her decision to keep Armstrong.

I wrote this on February 5, about Episode 2:  Whatever Peggy's situation, her father's interference apparently ruined whatever she had going on. He was saving the family from a disgrace. Did he force her to break up with someone? Was she fraternizing with someone of the wrong color, class, or sex? Did he have her baby taken from her and swept off into adoption without her permission? Ah, so many possibilities. 

 

 

[Roseanna]

On 3/21/2022 at 4:27 PM, J-Man said:

Peggy stated that her husband was forced to sign something indicating he was still married; hence, the bigamy defect would be grounds for annulment.

So no proof was presented? It seems really odd. The US has no register about marriages?

[Scarlett45]

On 3/15/2022 at 10:54 AM, KarenX said:

Raikes is doing better because he is an actual uncloseted heterosexual. Oscar is faking it, and you can tell. Women can tell. They may not have language for it but they know something else is there. Oscar admitted it, too. His ability to be an unblemished single gentleman has an expiration date.

Oscar might have been written as a confused, not even out to himself character, which might have made his interest in young heiresses more sincere, and he would have had more of Riakes’s luck. But… he is out to himself. He is in what appears to be a full-bodied openly romantic gay partnership. I think they are monogamous even.* He can’t commit fully to the role of suitor, even if he hadn’t been woefully miscast as a swain.

It’s too much baggage. He simply can’t achieve the levels of Adventurer-ing that Raikes can.

*Maybe Oscar and John are the true foils to Bertha and George. I’d put Oscar opposite Bertha. John, like George, seems more content with his position. Oscar is the one reaching for the stars here.

Yes I said this to my mom several episodes ago. Gladys grew up with parents who were a love match- she knows what romantic love and interest looks like. She wouldn’t necessarily have the language for it, but she would know that Oscar isn’t “into her like that”. Same thing with George- he might not suspect Oscar is gay right away (perhaps he might if he kept seeing he and John interact, people who have been intimate forget where the line used to be); but he would know that Oscar isn’t “into” his daughter- for whatever reason. 
 

Based on what we have seen John Adams (the way hotter of the two) is more emotionally invested in their relationship than Oscar is. I think Oscar does care for him but believe John is IN LOVE.

[Scarlett45]

On 3/16/2022 at 12:27 AM, Roseanna said:

That Agnes had more children is an interesting information because it reveals that she had to have sex with her horrible husband for years. 

I always assumed Agnes had several children, just that Oscar was the only one to survive to adulthood. 

 

On 3/16/2022 at 3:52 AM, Athena5217 said:

I thought the scene with Agnes and Peggy discussing Peggy’s child was one of the show’s best moments. Losing children was an experience very common for all women of that period regardless of race or financial status.a rich White woman like Agnes would have better access to medical care, but it often did not make a difference in saving the baby. Agnes’s terse comments were true to her character—she would not want to say too much because the emotion would overwhelm her.

I agree. It was an experience a woman from almost any social sphere could relate to. I think it’s likely Mrs Scott had lost children too. 
 

In an age before medical contraceptives, unless a couple married later in life, only one live birth was a rare thing. Not saying it never happened, but being an only child was usually do to 1. Siblings dying young, 2. A parent dying and the other not remarrying. 

[Scarlett45]

On 3/30/2022 at 2:05 PM, Roseanna said:

So no proof was presented? It seems really odd. The US has no register about marriages?

At this time, depending on where you were located (rural vs city, state by state etc) perhaps not. 
 

We are in 1880 or so (it’s 1882 now in the show, Peggy had been home a year after the birth of her baby before she went looking) at this point- many states didn’t issue birth certificates or marriage licenses for black people at this time, family records were just kept in family bibles and churches, but the state/city didn’t keep records on us. To prove a marriage you could call witnesses and the minister as evidence, but there may not have been a stated issued document in PA (I would have to check). 

[emmawoodhouse]

They were in Philadelphia, so you'd think that both a marriage license and a birth certificate existed. It's not like they were in some rural back country.

[smartymarty]

On 3/17/2022 at 1:17 PM, eleanorofaquitaine said:

But anyway, as it relates to McAllister, I think it has to have been a choice by Nathan Lane to go so over the top. 

Nathan Lane is not capable of NOT chewing the scenery. He needs to give some of that energy to the actor playing Marian.

On 3/19/2022 at 7:24 AM, Haleth said:

Yes.  A lot of the downstairs subplots should have been saved for season 2. 

Agree. Didn't help that I thought the woman the bald man was stalking was Turner (until their conversation).

 

So I'm confused. Aurora Fane reluctantly agreed to help Bertha Russell get into Society, only to preserve their fortune. She now seems besties. McAllister was said to be the real gatekeeper of Society, and within seconds he's inviting Bertha here and there. And if he thinks Bertha is good enough for Society, why didn't he introduce her to Lady Astor rather than hide her away? It's like the writers snapped their fingers and insta-presto Bertha is socially acceptable (except to Astor and Mrs. Morris).

 

[Bellatrix]

On 3/15/2022 at 4:30 AM, ZeeEnnui said:

On Law & Order: Gilded Age. It was the Dorota in the Bloomingdales with the deceitful Dixon's charge card. Even Jack McCoy couldn't win a case that quickly. Also, I feel like the writers got super bored with the court case and just wanted George to walk with a preposterously easy solution to his problem. 

The continued, neverending "Bates goes to prison—Or will he?"-plot on Downton Abbey soured me on courtroom procedurals for a lifetime. Can't even watch old reruns of Law & Order anymore. So for me the speedy resolution of the case was a godsend.

(Completely agree about the incomprehensible writing as to said resolution, but I was grateful anyway.) 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Bellatrix

[circumvent]

wrong thread

Edited June 11, 2022 by circumvent