S41.E08: Betraydar

[Whimsy]

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The castaways must work to make amends after betrayals. An interesting turn of events takes place at the reward challenge.

 

Original airdate 11/10/21 

[mojoween]

Shan is bossy.  Super bossy.  And she thinks it’s pastoral!

What the actual fuck was Heather trying to accomplish?  Now I know why she didn’t get airtime for eight weeks.  She crazy.

Edited November 12, 2021 by mojoween

[LadyChatts]

Just now, mojoween said:

Shan is bossy.  Super bossy.  And she thinks it’s pastoral!

What that actual fuck was Heather trying to accomplish?  Now I know why she didn’t get airtime for eight weeks.  She crazy.

Yeah, I don't know what that move was at TC.  She did vote for Tiffany, but was that her plan?  Seriously, though, what was that?!  I actually pity her because all the screen time she's gotten so far hasn't really been the best look.

I'll miss Tiffany, and I worry about Xander and Evvie now.  I really want Shan to go next.  She's chaotic.  

[PaperTree]

2 minutes ago, mojoween said:

She crazy

Or just dumb?😎

[Haleth]

So close to getting thru a TC without the whispering and scrambling. Curse you, Heather!

Did anyone catch who voted for whom?  It went by too fast.

I cannot stand Shan or Ricard. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Haleth

[LadyChatts]

I honestly don't know what Heather was thinking.  Like, I doubt she changed anyone's mind, so...what was that?  

[LanceM]

I agree with Shan. In 41 seasons of Survivor we have never seen anything like this.  And that is a good thing. All these dumb advantages and constant live tribals are getting quite tiresome and unejoyable to watch.

[CraftyHazel]

Xander voted for Naseer.

Evvie and Tiffany voted for Heather.

Naseer and I think Danny voted for Xander.

Everyone else voted Tiffany.

[mojoween]

1 minute ago, CraftyHazel said:

Xander voted for Naseer.

Evvie and Tiffany voted for Heather.

Naseer and I think Danny voted for Xander.

Everyone else voted Tiffany.

Thank you!  The editors zipped through the parchments like the parking meter was running out.

[Brynnjk]

I sooooooooo dislike Shan.  I'm so tired of hearing her talk.  I will miss Tiffany.  I'm seeing alot of posts like this so I know I'm not alone.  I didn't like her much in the beginning but she grew on me.  I'm glad she made jury and hopefully had a good time on Survivor.

 

 

 

[susannot]

I like Shan and Ricard.  They are gamers.  Also Xander.  As someone said in the Live Chat thread, by hanging on to his idol. Xander displayed nerves of steel.  Also like Danny because dayum.  That is one fine hunk of man.

[LadyChatts]

4 minutes ago, susannot said:

I like Shan and Ricard.  They are gamers.  Also Xander.  As someone said in the Live Chat thread, by hanging on to his idol. Xander displayed nerves of steel.  Also like Danny because dayum.  That is one fine hunk of man.

I won't lie that I really thought Xander was going.  Liana had that confessional about wanting him to misplay his idol for no reason, so he'd lose that power.  I was worried that was foreshadowing to him not playing it, or playing it for Tiffany, and getting voted off as a result.  I also thought it took guts that he sat the IC out, knowing he wasn't in the best position in the game.

[vb68]

I honestly don't know how anybody puts up with Shan.  She's playing way too hard.

Ricard is too, though. I'm glad Xander saw right through him.

9 minutes ago, CraftyHazel said:

Everyone else voted Tiffany.

This suggests to me the whole thing with Heather may have been staged.

I grew to like Tiffany more by the end. 

[DEL901]

Shan has alienated most of her allies.    And now she’s alienated her parishioners.   Talk about arrogant.   That went beyond gameplay.  She just doesn’t know when to stop talking.  
 

Xander does have nerves of steel.   Would have been crazy if he’d found that other advantage.   But he was also right about spending time with the losers.  

[iMonrey]

Viakana Tribe? Remember when after the merge they all came up with a new tribe name and made a new flag? They don't even bother showing that nonsense anymore. Nope, no time for that. We have to spend it on all these new advantages, idols and twists. 

Sure, it's still a game, but it's no longer chess. Now it's more like Bamboozled - that game from Friends. How long before they're drawing Wicked Wango cards, spinning the wheel of mayhem, and given hopping bonuses? Seriously - it's just overly and needlessly complicated now. 

Even the players now seem to think they're supposed to start whisper-scrambling every tribal. So tired of it.

This season has really been focused on Shan, but I don't see how she wins even if she makes it to the final three, she's alienating everyone.

[LadyChatts]

1 minute ago, vb68 said:

I honestly don't know how anybody puts up with Shan.  She's playing way too hard.

Ricard is too, though. I'm glad Xander saw right through him.

This suggests to me the whole thing with Heather may have been staged.

I grew to like Tiffany more by the end. 

I'm kind of wondering, although I don't know if everyone looking super confused could have pulled off those acting chops.  Maybe they forgot there was a Heather in the game, too.  That was super random for her of all people to do that, though, and I still don't know what she was trying to accomplish.  Maybe she knew she was going to get the purple edit and decided to make one last stand for airtime?

[CraftyHazel]

I like Xander.  I think he’s playing fairly smart.

Ricard reminds me of Brian…smarmy, smooth, and completely untrustworthy.  They’d be smart to keep an eye on him.

I’ll actually miss Tiffany.

And because it can’t be said enough, I really dislike Shan.

[Guest]

Deshawn's face when Xander volunteered to take Erika's place on the sit-out bench was the highlight for me.

The rest of the episode was the lowlight.

[willco]

I never know what is going on at TC anymore ! Did Heather (?) think she was going or what ? She sure did herself no favors, I think. All she did was stir crap up- but I think maybe she isn't important enough and doesn't have much power anyway, so she probably won't be a target right away due to her tribal stunt. At least, it seems like it to me, but like I said, I'm kind of lost anyway.

 

I do know if I was a member of Shan's church and I saw her comments, I' be finding somewhere else to go ! She basically said, "I listen to everyone and then do what I want to do !" Yeah, sorry, that wouldn't really work for me. To me it implies that she thinks she's always right- and it does seem that way on the show.

 

Kind of bummed Xander didn't find whatever that was hidden at the challenge. I doubt if he will get even close to the Final 2 or 3, but he impressed me last week and I want to see what else he can do.

[Grrarrggh]

I like Shan a lot and find it interesting so many people don't. If she was a man more people would love her game. Deshawn is getting on my nerves, and how can the others not realise how dangerous Ricard is?!

2 minutes ago, willco said:

I do know if I was a member of Shan's church and I saw her comments, I' be finding somewhere else to go ! She basically said, "I listen to everyone and then do what I want to do !" Yeah, sorry, that wouldn't really work for me. To me it implies that she thinks she's always right- and it does seem that way on the show.

I'm not a Christian but isn't that the whole point of a pastor? To tell parishioners what to do and how to interpret religious texts?

[PaperTree]

35 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I cannot stand Shan or Ricard.

Me too, but call me crazy, but I think Ricard is going to win.  Time will tell.

[CraftyHazel]

3 minutes ago, Grrarrggh said:

I'm not a Christian but isn't that the whole point of a pastor? To tell parishioners what to do and how to interpret religious texts?

No.  A pastor is supposed to lead by example, listen to their parishioners, and weigh what is in the best interest of the church…not themselves.

 I’m fine with women playing hard and aggressive, but I still dislike Shan.

[susannot]

Ricard made a good move by stepping up to join Shan's 4.  That made her trust him again after PapayaGate.

Edited November 11, 2021 by susannot

[mertensia]

If I were a member of Shan's church I'd be asking for an audit of their finances about now.

I like Naseer. 

[susannot]

10 minutes ago, mertensia said:

If I were a member of Shan's church I'd be asking for an audit of their finances about now.

I like Naseer. 

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by susannot
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[susannot]

Naseer is lovable.  That is exactly why he will be voted out.  No one will want to sit next to him at FTC. Also he lacks the killer cutthroat gene.  Shan and Ricard have it.  Xander is sneaky and clever.  In fact I'm going out on a limb right now and predicting they'll be the Final 3.  I will revisit this prediction at the end to determine how wrong I was.

[iMonrey]

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I like Xander.  I think he’s playing fairly smart.

For a minute there I thought maybe he volunteered to sit out the reward challenge because he figured there was a good chance it came with yet another advantage. But no, he just wanted to throw his lot in with the losers to assess the bittercakes. Which isn't a bad strategy in and of itself, but the game is such a crapshoot now it's hard to tell what's worth anything.

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Naseer is lovable. 

Eh, I don't love him. He seems hopelessly naive. I know he's not privy to what we are but Danny and DeShawn keep throwing his name out there and yet he still thinks he's in tight with them. 

[awaken]

I don’t know why they bothered showing the hidden advantage at the challenge if xander wasn’t going to find it and it had no impact on the game. 

[susannot]

Naseer's speech about sacrificing for the tribe because he felt terrible that they were starving had some of them in tears.

Edited November 11, 2021 by susannot

[Chicago Redshirt]

6 minutes ago, awaken said:

I don’t know why they bothered showing the hidden advantage at the challenge if xander wasn’t going to find it and it had no impact on the game. 

They got everyone watching at home to say, "Thank Jesus he didn't find that advantage because the last thing this season needs is another random twist." Or alternatively, they get to fake us out and Xander did find it and put it back and we'll flash back to this down the road.

They think that giving us more of a glimpse of behind the scenes of Survivor is fascinating, but I at least would rather pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Also, assuming the show is playing it straight, they get to have all the players be like, "Oh man, Xander should have looked at the bench." And future generations of players are going to have this in mind and do even more Easter Egg hunts.

I can't wait till there is a point where they stop planting idols and advantages and people spend a ton of energy looking for nothing. 

28 minutes ago, susannot said:

Naseer is lovable.  That is exactly why he will be voted out.  No one will want to sit next to him at FTC. Also he lacks the killer cutthroat gene.  Shan and Ricard have it.  Xander is sneaky and clever.  In fact I'm going out on a limb right now and predicting they'll be the Final 3.  I will revisit this prediction at the end to determine how wrong I was.

I think that Xander's sneakiness can only go so far. People would be crazy to think that they could beat him in a FTC. But then my prediction was off about Erika being targeted for revenge for TBT, so what do I know?

[princelina]

1 hour ago, LadyChatts said:

I honestly don't know what Heather was thinking.  Like, I doubt she changed anyone's mind, so...what was that?  

She didn't even change her own mind - she voted for Tiffany.

1 hour ago, vb68 said:

This suggests to me the whole thing with Heather may have been staged.

That's what I thought, even though it seems like a difficult thing to do.  But then when no one voted for her except for the people who had no idea what was going on it seems almost obvious.  Was the fight between Shan and Deshawn staged too then?  Mr. P and I were confused

 

1 hour ago, Grrarrggh said:

I like Shan a lot and find it interesting so many people don't. If she was a man more people would love her game. Deshawn is getting on my nerves, and how can the others not realise how dangerous Ricard is?!

I'm not a Christian but isn't that the whole point of a pastor? To tell parishioners what to do and how to interpret religious texts?

The job of a pastor is to first preach and teach the gospel, and then to guide the parishioners.  As with any leadership position among adults, it can be like herding cats at times (which is why I prefer to be in charge of middle schoolers 😄 ) but I don't think Shan did herself any favors with how she talked about them tonight.  If she were a man I would not love her game because what I dislike about her is a common trait for a Survivor player each season - the one who thinks other people should be playing her (or his) game rather than their own.  (Like with Ricard and the extra idol - she handled that wrongly and then gets all pissed when he finds her behavior suspicious.). As I've said before, like men who assign themselves a stupid nickname, I also find it off-putting that she assigned herself a theme song 😄

ETA:  I am liking Xander more each week.

Edited November 11, 2021 by princelina

[Melina22]

Shan is a very interesting person. We've seen how she likes to be in charge at all times, which can be off-putting, but at the same time she's very charismatic. I can see how under less stressful circumstances, she could charmingly convince people to do almost anything. Hopefully, outside the game, she uses her powers only for good. In the game, as she gets too exhausted to be charming, she could be in trouble. 

I'm very impressed with Xander. Honestly, at the start of the game he struck me as naive and conceited, mainly due to his annoying hair situation. But he's proving to be a much bolder and more strategic player than I ever gave him credit for. 

Speaking of surprises, who knew that I'd be sad to see Tiffany go? I didn't see that one coming. She really came into her own after a terrible start. 

The AA alliance doesn't look like it's going to go the distance. It's no Cookout. Too much friction between Deshawn and Shan. 

[dbell1]

I hate how the bottom feeders don’t go to people on the fringe of the core alliance and play into their fears. Why didn’t Heather, Evie, Tiff, Erika, Zander try and pull Naseer and Ricard? 

Imagine planning a potluck with Shan. You think you’re going with a bbq and next thing it’s vegan. She’s exhausting and too preachy (pun intended). Reminds me of why I quit the local church. 

And Ricard eating the papaya, he’s an asshole. Hope the cheese ruined his digestive system for a few days. People aren’t eating at all, and he come back from having a meal and goes for the loser’s food? I’d have put his name out there immediately.

[susannot]

3 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

Shan is a very interesting person. We've seen how she likes to be in charge at all times, which can be off-putting, but at the same time she's very charismatic. I can see how under less stressful circumstances, she could charmingly convince people to do almost anything. Hopefully, outside the game, she uses her powers only for good. In the game, as she gets too exhausted to be charming, she could be in trouble. 

I'm very impressed with Xander. Honestly, at the start of the game he struck me as naive and conceited, mainly due to his annoying hair situation. But he's proving to be a much bolder and more strategic player than I ever gave him credit for. 

Speaking of surprises, who knew that I'd be sad to see Tiffany go? I didn't see that one coming. She really came into her own after a terrible start. 

The AA alliance doesn't look like it's going to go the distance. It's no Cookout. Too much friction between Deshawn and Shan. 

Agree.  Not with a bossy female in charge!

[Maverick]

1 hour ago, awaken said:

I don’t know why they bothered showing the hidden advantage at the challenge if xander wasn’t going to find it and it had no impact on the game. 

 So Peachy could have something to say to the camera as the Omniscient Narrator role he's cast himself as.

[stcroix]

8 minutes ago, Maverick said:

 So Peachy could have something to say to the camera as the Omniscient Narrator role he's cast himself as.

The last few seasons while he's on camera he talks the entire challenge.  It would drive me nuts if I was trying my hardest to concentrate.  This year he's even worse.  It's like they got rid of the show's terrific themesong and added Peachy's neverending spew of talk.  Just neverending.  Gah!

[lawrbk]

2 hours ago, Brynnjk said:

I sooooooooo dislike Shan.  I'm so tired of hearing her talk.  I will miss Tiffany.  I'm seeing alot of posts like this so I know I'm not alone.  I didn't like her much in the beginning but she grew on me.  I'm glad she made jury and hopefully had a good time on Survivor.

 

 

 

I liked her then didn’t then came around again. I’ll miss her. I actually like a few players (some I like-like, others I at least think are playing hard and so enjoy and a few that are both) so I don’t have to much wiggle room in who I want to see voted off. But I wish she’d stayed longer. I think we’ll see her again. 

[Hera]

I really liked Evvie telling Liana that on a personal level, they're fine, even though they can't really trust each other in the game anymore. I really appreciate the players who can compartmentalize the game vs. the personal relationships because that's how I'd want to play. I doubt I'd be able to pull it off, though. I take everything personally.

Something I found very interesting after the last couple of weeks showing us the closeness of Shan and Liana and the alliance of the four Black players: Shan said in this episode that Ricard was her number one. And while I think the papaya thing genuinely annoyed her (and I agree that Ricard was being socially obtuse), I also don't think that's the sort of thing you'd call an ally out on unless you felt very safe with that alliance. Plus, she and Ricard have a precedent for open communication. So it seems to me that Shan might not be all the way in her Liana alliance or the Black players' alliance after all. Meanwhile, Deshawn is getting fed up with her.

As for the vote, I think the majority alliance played it very badly. They wanted Xander to burn his idol, but for some reason got really hung up on forcing him to use it unnecessarily. Why? Given Xander's willingness at the last tribal council to call their bluff, he's either going to think everything's a bluff, or he's not going to play the idol unless he's in genuine danger. They should have just put four votes on Xander and four on Tiffany and Xander either saves himself or doesn't. Or go 5-3 to Xander and Tiffany and then if Xander does save himself, vote for Tiffany on the revote (assuming that Xander, Tiffany, and Evvie all vote for the same person). The latter is a riskier strategy since Xander has an extra vote and could thwart a 5-3-3 split by using the idol to save himself and using the extra vote to avoid a 3-3 tie. In a 4-4 split vote, Xander's extra vote would force a tie, but wouldn't be enough to save anyone on the revote.

I realize that all the advantages this season have made everyone extra paranoid (as intended), but if Xander had played his idol and Tiffany had managed to save herself from the vote somehow, then the majority alliance would have been screwed anyway. You may as well take the chance that makes mathematical sense and doesn't involve showing the people at the bottom of your alliance that they're at the bottom while there are still players whose side they could flip to. If and when Tiffany, Evvie, or Xander ask about the vote, you just tell Tiffany and Evvie to vote for Xander and Xander to vote for Tiffany. They way overthought this, although at least they weren't so inept that another one of their allies went home.

[TVFan1]

I will miss Tiffany. At least she is on the jury, so I'll still see her every week. I was surprised she got voted out.

Shan needs to get off my screen. I can not stand her. She's always talking and is annoying. Everything has to go her way. 

Was Xander looking for an advantage on the sit out bench? I thought for sure he would find it. Shocked he didn't find it.

[Steph Sometimes]

Anyone have any thoughts on Erika getting the short end of the stick twice? Bad luck? Conspiracy?

[Andyourlittledog2]

Shan is very manipulative. She basically said she pretends to listen to her parishioners and then uses that information to convince them to do it her way. If I was in her church I'd be furious at this admission. She thinks she's very clever but she can't help herself. She worked hard to use the 'pastoral' language she uses on everyone to convince him that she was sorry she seemed like she wasn't listening to his input, pretended very obviously to be respectful and invite his input, then she walked away fully convinced that she had pulled a fast one on him just like she does at her church. She's basically a shyster. I wouldn't turn my back to her.

Glad Xander turned out to be a more astute player than we at first thought. I was thinking that the advantage was placed in a very precarious spot. Feeling around for it would likely displace it and even accidentally launch it into the water. He tried to look all around the bench but that spot was very out of the way and hard to feel for if you aren't actually off the bench and looking at it while you feel for it.

I will miss Tiffany, which is something I didn't expect to feel in the beginning of the season.

[GaT]

Why aren't they voting Shan out? Seems like an easy choice to me.

Xander has to be suspicious of Ricard & his "use your idol" insistence. I mean seriously dude, could you be more obvious? 

[CraftyHazel]

3 minutes ago, GaT said:

Why aren't they voting Shan out? Seems like an easy choice to me.

Xander has to be suspicious of Ricard & his "use your idol" insistence. I mean seriously dude, could you be more obvious? 

Seriously.  From what we have seen, these two have barely acknowledged each other’s existence, so why would Xander trust Ricard that he needed to play his idol?  

[MsTree]

Peanut Butter and Chocolate. Where's my mirror ball trophy? 😉

[violet and green]

Apart from Xander, new-Tiffany, dear old Naseer, and Erica - they are a pretty unlikable bunch.

If Jeff looks at the camera and explains something really obvious or tells us what's about to happen or didn't happen one more time I am going to throw a coconut at his head.

[lawrbk]

Xander looked on both sides so he knew there could be something. I think it was good to roll the dice. He still ends up looking like a nice guy to Erika and gets to maybe ingratiate himself back with the losers. Or at least get intel. 
when heather first heard her name was being put out there as the fake out, I was glad to see her go ‘hell no’ and hoped we’d get some paschal and neleh ‘flipping the game on its head when you see where you stand action’ but nope. Instead she did whatever that was at tribal. 

[Cozytea]

I'll  miss Tiffany.  She wasnt my fav at the beginning but I grew to like her.

Shan is so damn annoying. She's a pastor? I must have known this but somehow blocked it out.

Xander must have decided to not to take part in any challenge after being used as a human ladder a couple weeks ago. Seriously he's playing well. I have a soft spot for him. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Cozytea

[Haleth]

I like how Xander is playing now.  In the beginning he was too eager to share the news that he had an idol and an advantage, but now he's playing closer to the vest and very smartly.  Volunteering to sit out the RC so he could look for another advantage was smart, even though he missed it, and realizing it gave him time to bond with the losers.  Volunteering to give up immunity was risky, but in his mind it may have let the majority group overlook him for that TC.  And realizing Ricard had a motive for begging him to use the idol when it didn't appear (to the tv audience anyway) that he and Ricard were allies in any way.  He's smarter than he looks.

What is Xander's advantage, anyway?  I've forgotten.  Extra vote?

Ricard has a nasty streak but he's playing smartly too.  Naseer is like the anti-Ricard, very sweet but so out of his element in this game.

8 hours ago, princelina said:

[Heather] didn't even change her own mind - she voted for Tiffany.

And Tiffany voted for her anyway.  Ha!

[Booger666]

8 hours ago, Maverick said:

 So Peachy could have something to say to the camera as the Omniscient Narrator role he's cast himself as.

I thought it was to show what a misogynistic pig Jeff is.  Xander volunteered and Jeff jumped right in and told Erika to switch places with him.  That should have been HER choice.  If the roles were reversed Peachy would’ve spent a good 5-10 min asking Xander what he thought about the offer, what the risks were, is there an ulterior motive, etc; but instead he just tells Erika to move over and let Xander get his way.

[seacliffsal]

I think this episode was the prelude to Shan's downfall as she was dictatorial to pretty much everyone in pretty much every situation.  She appointed herself chief negotiator for the group regarding the bag of rice (and I smiled when Xander renegotiated her negotiation and then got it down [by the way, it was really interesting that 3 of the people who stepped down all held immunity idols]).  Even when she was telling Deshawn that she wanted to hear him so she 'could learn' she kept interrupting him (and it seems obvious that Deshawn doesn't like being commanded as to what to do).

There has been some discussion as to if Shan was a male people would like her game play.  I just want to be clear that her gameplay is not what I appreciate no matter who embodies it.  The superior arrogance always grates on me no matter who is demonstrating it.  There has also been discussion about the role of a pastor-to me the pastor helps instruct congregants even though we are all responsible to read the Bible and understand through the guidance of the Holy Spirit God's principles and lessons.  Additionally, a pastor should be a comfort to others through the challenges of life.  However, when I attend a church in which the pastor is not fulfilling obligations or trying to micromanage the lives of the members, I usually move on to another church.  Back to the show, Shan is the type of pastor from whom I would move on-God gives us free will, a pastor should not try to take that away.

I really, really wish that Xander had found the advantage.  I don't like the plethora of advantages this season, but since there are, I'd like Xander or Naseer find them all.  I have more respect for Xander's play as we move forward.  I, too, grew to like Tiffany and wish Heather had gone instead (or someone else).  I think Heather wants to make big moves and saw how Jeff loved the big move at the prior tribal so thought she would try it herself.  

I don't know what happen this season, but I started out really not liking Xander or Tiffany and grew to like both of them to the point that I was sorry to see Tiffany leave.