S05.E15: Jerry 2.0

[AzraeltheCat]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

That's standard Sophie behavior.  Sophie never wants to get back together, but she loves having Kevin carrying a perpetual torch for her.

 

This is why I cannot buy Sophie as a viable love interest for Kevin.  That phone call should have been a text.  If all she wanted to do was congratulate  Kevin on the birth of the twins and wish him well in his marriage, all she had to do was text Kevin, "Hi this is Sophie.  Congrats on the  babies and the upcoming nuptials."  But, she decided to call him, and include the "don't ask" about her new number which of course means ask about why she had to get a new number.  It's some passive-aggressive bullshit and not romantic.  I do have a suspicion that the writers think this is romantic though.  They seem to have a warped view as to what is romantic.  It's like they read a bunch of romance novels and took away all the wrong things.  Second chance romance is a thing, third time's the charm is not.  Totems like the emerald ring are a thing, but the conditions set forth by Sophie's mom in regards to the totem are not.  

Now Kevin and Madison is a complete romance novel.  One night of wild sex. Madison miraculously getting pregnant from that night.  Madison going over to tell Kevin she's pregnant just as Kevin is having the fight to end all fights with his adopted brother.  Kevin deciding he wants to be in Madison and the kids' lives and moving in with them for reasons (pandemic here, in a romance novel it's other reasons).  Forced proximity FTW.  Kevin and Madison deciding to make a go of it and getting married for the wrong reasons is a modern update of the marriage of convenience trope.  I could go on, but the story is there.  

THIS TIMES ONE MILLION! I am SO over Kevin/Sophie but have a horrible feeling they will be endgame.  

[madmax]

11 hours ago, debraran said:

But did anyone notice that Sophie made a big deal about changing her number and she didn’t think he would pick up  but then Sophie came up on his phone?  Was that another goof that this is us didn’t catch or was it supposed to highlight the fact that he deleted her number and won’t be able to get it back?

The number he deleted was her old number, which had an area code beginning with a 9.  The new number had an 814 area code.  So he only deleted the old number.

11 hours ago, LexieLily said:

Yes, and what with the show focusing on Miguel worrying about Rebecca, Rebecca's conversation with Beth about appreciating how Beth still treated her like a person, and the fact that Rebecca was having a good day...I, too, was convinced it was set up for Rebecca to have an episode when with Beth or not be at the right house when she was going up the walk.

I was surprised that Beth left before Rebecca.  I would have thought SOMEONE would have to stay with her.  And yes, I thought she was going to forget to go in the house and go wander off.

11 hours ago, phalange said:

I get Toby is stressed about not having work, but uh, maybe talk to Kate before trying to interview for a job that would require moving hours away? 

Kate took a job without consulting him, assuming he would just be a SAHD.  Not quite the same, but damn close.

 

[ams1001]

 

2 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I've been wondering what they're living on now because half-time with no benefits plus unemployment payments would have a family of 4 anywhere, let alone LA, running a deficit. I assume they're draining their savings. Their situation as-is was never sustainable - Kate's not supporting their family, and as you say, with her work history, she can't. Toby needs to go back to work, both for the financial aspect and because he doesn't want to be a SAHD (it's not for everyone - I have a friend who was a SAHM for a year and a half, not by choice, and she loathed it).The more senior you are, the harder it is to find work because there are fewer vacancies. Kate can be a teaching assistant anywhere; there aren't as many jobs available at Toby's level. He needs to seriously consider this - talk to her about it, of course, but seriously consider it.

I don't think they've mentioned it (maybe one passing comment?) but he would be getting unemployment, right? He'd be eligible because he was laid off, plus with the extra unemployment payments because of covid, they'd probably be okay for a few months, at least. (No idea how long it's been.) They did mention savings (as in, not wanting to dip into them) so they do have some, apparently. But this show is never good with money specifics.

[Arcadiasw]

I have never seen Jerry Maguire. The clips and references in pop culture turned me off. The whole "you had me at hello" always made my eyes roll and never enticed me to see the movie. 

With Sophie and Kevin are they trying to make them go again like Bennifer 2.0? 

I also don't understand Kevin and Madison especially Madison as she tried to explain her history with Kevin. Why embellish it when it was one night stand pregnancy that got them together?

I was under the assumption everyone knew it is a shotgun wedding and with the pandemic bringing them closer they are giving it a try to see something more is there and the eventual flash forward will tell us if they are endgame but for now we still guess if it is or not.🤷‍♀️

[cardigirl]

11 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, but Toby seeking employment in another city, when he knows Kate has a job she loves.....I’d be livid.  So, she’s supposed to quit her job to move to another city?  Absurd.  
  

Toby does need to keep Kate in the loop, something he's been guilty of not doing in the past. But it's not absurd to look for a job in another city when there doesn't seem to be anything available in the area you are currently living in. Especially if Kate's job is brand new and part time and not a career. 

But it should involve a discussion at least.  And who's to say they can't work out a commute for a while? 

Having to move for work can be stressful on a marriage, just as losing a job can be.  Toby and Kate will need to see if they can face down these types of problems together. Right now it's not looking good.  But to say it's absurd for him to  seek employment outside of their current area of living is not reasonable in my opinion. I've been through this a few times with my spouse, and you go where the work and money are. You try to keep as much of your life as possible, but if you have to move for your job, YOU HAVE TO MOVE FOR YOUR JOB. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by cardigirl

[Guest]

Oh good. More Sophie.  I just think the Sophie drama has been played out. Past and present, no need for future.

Toby should tell Kate he was considering the job, but given her propensity for drama and selfishness, I can see why he would delay it temporarily. But he needs to find a job - she can't be making enough to support them and any savings are likely dwindling.

[Empress1]

1 minute ago, ams1001 said:

 

I don't think they've mentioned it (maybe one passing comment?) but he would be getting unemployment, right? He'd be eligible because he was laid off, plus with the extra unemployment payments because of covid, they'd probably be okay for a few months, at least. (No idea how long it's been.) They did mention savings (as in, not wanting to dip into them) so they do have some, apparently. But this show is never good with money specifics.

Yes - when Toby was interviewing for the job he ended up not getting, he said "it would be good not to have to dip into our savings." And back then I said that he'd be getting unemployment and he probably got severance since he was laid off, not fired. But, as someone who has been on unemployment, for one, even at its highest (which I'm sure Toby would be getting; it's based on how much you made at your last job and I'm sure Toby did well) plus the COVID boost, odds are good it's not close to what Toby was making as a senior-level IT person, and it also doesn't last forever. Also (and this may have been waived because of the pandemic, to be fair), you can lose your UE if you turn down work unless the work is really out of step with what you were doing, or drastically below your previous wage (like Toby could turn down a fast food job because it's so much lower than what he made before). LA is expensive, they have a mortgage and two very young kids. I assume their expenses are high.

Also, as someone pointed out, in IT/tech you have to stay relevant because it moves so quickly - the longer Toby is out of work, the harder it will be for him to find it, or to find it at his same level. 

[Cheyanne11]

I'm hoping that this is all about Kevin in and of himself--and what he wants.  Seems like he's being visited by the 'ghosts of relationships past' to make him see the error of his current ways, re the reason he's marrying Madison.  And, honestly, they're not wrong.  He rushed into everything in his totally Kevin 'all or nothing' way.  I like Madison, but this marriage seems like a bad idea.

Toby mocking Jerry Maguire completed me (heh).  Always hated that stupid movie.

More Miguel and Rebecca backstory, show!  His speech about relationships was really sweet.  #TeamMiguel

Poor Nicky--has to have a long-lost with a very common name.  

[Jodithgrace]

"Hey, Mom, guess what? I landed a part on This is Us!"

"Oh, honey, my favorite show! Who will you play?"

"Madison's old boyfriend and (mumble mumble)"

"What?"

"Uh, nude model."

So what are the chances that next week will see a lighthearted wedding episode? Having just seen the "wedding episode" of The Rookie, I seriously doubt it.  Why do wedding episodes alway have to be so fraught? 

I know that Madison is not Kevin's soulmate. But I don't think that Sophie is either. Are we really going to have to deal with Sophie's issues next season on top of Madison's. If Madison is the one who backs out, that will be different. Maybe that would be the best thing to happen. Kevin can be secretly relieved, and still stay a part of the twins' lives. 

[BC4ME]

12 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

 

When Kate said that they were going to paint the stripper guy, I thought she meant literally paint him. As in, apply paint to his body. So when they showed the group painting pictures of him, I thought, Oh that makes more sense! How stupid am I? It was the way Kate phrased it, "he's going to make us drinks, strip off his clothes and then we're going to paint him." I mean...

I actually thought that too. It seemed like a real let's do something unexpected type party.

[AriAu]

Quote

I don’t get what both Kate and Madison saw when watching what Kevin said on the video . Did they see him daydream for a second ( of Sophie ) then come back to reality with thinking about Madison ?

Then you haven't seen Jerry Maguire! In the video taken at the Jerry/Dorothy practically shotgun wedding, there is a scene showing us all the doubts he has and whether it is relief or true joy or just doing the right thing or rushing into things or circumstances aligning rather than true love.....sound familiar.

Some of the parallels were pretty true:

1.Randall/Beth do give off some Cuba/Regina (really Rod/Marcy) vibe from the movie as a couple that has each other's back and can keep them very "real" by calling them out on their bullshit;

2 Kevin clearly has a need to make the huge gesture all the time. Then again, so does Randall...must be something in the drinking water at the Pearson house!

3.  I could clearly see Jack and his sidekick son thinking this was the best movie ever (come'on, we could all see Jack doing the living room "you complete me" routine).......

But just not sure Kevin is really looking at Madison with "you complete me"....and not sure Kevin will be really happy not making movies, being on location and hence the other doubts about the future.

Couple random thoughts.

Yes, Randall has called Toby "Tobias" before....a few times.

Yes, Toby's male ego is going to destroy his marriage, but, just out of curiosity, what cash are they living on?

While I thought the Beth/Rebecca scene was very touching, what was Beth thinking letting Rebecca go home alone...what were any of them thinking. Given the dose of misery that this show usually serves up, I was sure we were heading for a disaster.

Going to be a hell of a cliff hanger next week....any predictions on what the flash forward gives us??? Probably the wrong thread for that.

 

Edited May 19, 2021 by AriAu

[ams1001]

7 minutes ago, Jodithgrace said:

So what are the chances that next week will see a lighthearted wedding episode? Having just seen the "wedding episode" of The Rookie, I seriously doubt it.  Why do wedding episodes alway have to be so fraught? 

If they go the route of one of them backing out, I hope it's Madison, but Kevin realizes he is relieved, and they go on and have a nice party anyway to celebrate maybe not making a huge mistake. That would be a twist on a "lighthearted wedding episode."

They can still raise their kids together and get married later if they really do fall in love. Easier (and cheaper!) than getting married now and ending up unhappy and then divorcing.

3 minutes ago, BC4ME said:

I actually thought that too. It seemed like a real let's do something unexpected type party.

I would hate it either way. A traditional stripper would make me extremely uncomfortable (my friend's sister did that the night before her wedding and I was not especially happy about it (not least because it somehow ended up being in my hotel room so I couldn't just leave and go to bed)). But I also have zero artistic ability so painting a nude portrait of some guy in the backyard does not sound fun, either.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Unpopular opinion: Raisnets are gross. I like chocolate and I like raisins, but I do not like them together.

Ahhh, now the story is that all of Madison's friends are on the East Coast. Hasn't she lived in LA for years?

Oh, Kevin. Whenever someone asks "How does anyone ever really know who they're supposed to marry?" If you are asking that question, then you don't want to marry the person you're currently dating. If you really wanted to marry her, you wouldn't be asking someone else that question. My mom's two younger sisters got engaged within months of each other. One sister called and said, "OMG, Joe proposed! We're getting married! I'm so excited!" The other sister called and said, "John proposed. What should I say?" I was only in middle school at the time but even I knew that the one questioning what she should do should not get married to that guy if that was her reaction.

I've never understood the urge to contact an ex when you or they are about to get married. You had your chance. If you had regrets, you should have stated them before now. But of course, half of those "I'm/you're getting married!" calls have all the subtext of "LAST CHANCE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND!" which again, I don't get. You broke up for a reason. You began relationships with other people. Why are you suddenly desperate to reconnect just before the wedding?

Awww, Miguel. I remember when I was in college, this girl I knew loved asking couples how they met. She wanted to hear the romantic meet-cute stories. But not everyone has one of those stories. That doesn't make their relationship any less romantic or less than ideal. Not everyone is going to have a romcom written in the stars kind of story. They can still have a happy, loving relationship. I'm glad that Miguel got past his doubts and realized that his relationship with Rebecca is different but still good.

12 hours ago, LexieLily said:

if you were hired for a bachelorette party for stripping purposes or being naked purposes and showed up to the house to see that the bride was your ex-girlfriend, why in the world would you want to stay? 

 

12 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

He probably didn't want to but needed the money. Didn't he ask about payment right at the beginning? Plus Madison said they just dated. It didn't sound like some great relationship. I think Madison should have been the one to ask him to leave with full payment OR just not make a bunch of passive aggressive jabs at him ghosting her. It seemed rude especially as he was naked and in a vulnerable position. Ghosting someone you merely dated doesn't seem as bad as being rude to service people, IMO.

He didn't say anything about payment. The entire conversation when he arrived:

Kate: Hi, come in. Uh, oh, wait - just to make sure, you're-
Joe: Vaxxed and waxed for your pleasure.
Kate: Sure. Okay. Well, come on in.
Joe: Madison?
Madison: Joe.
Rebecca: What's happening?
Beth: If I was a betting woman, I'd say our girl Madison has a little history with the stripper.
Kate: He's not a stripper. He's a model. He's from a place called Picasso and Prosecco. So he's going to make us drinks and then take off his clothes off and then we get to paint him. I'm sorry. How do you two know each other?
Madison: We dated.
Beth: Oh.
Joe: Really good to see you, and, um, congratulations.
Madison: Thanks.
Joe: So, uh, where should we set up? And did you want to paint me in boxer briefs or full nude?
Rebecca: The latter.

Usually when you work for places like this, you are a contracted employee so you only get paid for the gigs you do. If he had left, he wouldn't get paid anything (not even the time he spent driving to and from Madison's house, which could be 1-2 hours in LA depending on traffic). Plus he'd then have to tell the company that he left because he was kind of a rude jerk to someone in the past and that's why she didn't want him at her bachelorette party.

11 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Or Tobey can just commute, if he even got the job. It’s hours away I know but I have coworkers who live pretty far away. Or maybe I’m reaching.

 

11 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Isn't it over 4 hours to drive from LA to San Francisco?

Now I do know couples who have lived far away and only actually saw each other on weekends.  If they really want to make it work they could, especially if he worked at home part time.

But if Toby really can only get a job in San Francisco, and it is a good job/salary it wouldn't be unreasonable for the family to move there. Kate's part time job is not enough to support them and two babies are expensive.  

It's about 400 miles. It's a 6 hour drive without traffic (meaning if you drive in the middle of the night, but if you hit morning or evening rush hour traffic, it can take a lot longer). But there are plenty of flights between SFO and LAX all day on multiple airlines. The flight is about 90 minutes.

8 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Toby's San Francisco job storyline would have worked pre-pandemic, but now most tech companies are letting people work from home permanently and tech workers are leaving the overpriced SF Bay area in droves. It's advantageous for companies as well because they can adjust salaries based on location and have a much larger talent pool to choose from.

Even pre-pandemic, there were a lot of companies in SF (including non-tech) that let people work remotely or have very flexible schedules. One of the guys who took of the network/server stuff at Mr. EB's company (which is located in SF) lives in the Donner Lake/Truckee area which is about a three hour drive during non-rush hour traffic. He negotiated working remotely for half the week several years ago so that he didn't have a hellish commute five days a week.

8 hours ago, MBayGal said:

When I married someone who lived 4 hours away, and I did not want to move there, he worked 4 days a week up there, came home, and worked at home one day, for a couple of years. That was 22 years ago and we are still married.

When my sister lived in San Diego, she got offered a job at UC Merced (400 miles away). She did something similar for the two years that she worked there. She and her boyfriend at the time managed to deal with the long distance and are now married.

11 hours ago, ams1001 said:

I assumed he saved her number after she called, and then decided to delete it. Though we didn't actually see him confirm the deletion, did we?

Yes, I went back and checked. He tapped the delete button and then his phone kicked him back to his contacts list.

12 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I’m no expert in ballet, but why is Beth so obsessed it? 

Probably the same reason that Kevin is obsessed with acting (and was obsessed with football) or the reason that Kate is obsessed with music - they love doing it and it's a huge part of who they are.

13 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

I also have zero artistic ability so painting a nude portrait of some guy in the backyard does not sound fun, either.

That's why those drink and paint workshops are usually something scenic (think palm trees at the beach) or something graphic (shapes, not nudes) - it's much easier for people who aren't super artistic to recreate paintings like that than human bodies. If I'd been at that bachelorette party, Joe would have been a stick figure.

[chitowngirl]

12 hours ago, LexieLily said:

The thing I kept thinking about during this entire episode was, if you were hired for a bachelorette party for stripping purposes or being naked purposes and showed up to the house to see that the bride was your ex-girlfriend, why in the world would you want to stay? 

It’s Covid...a paycheck is a paycheck 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

If I'd been at that bachelorette party, Joe would have been a stick figure.

That would have been a bigger blow to his ego than the ghosting talk. ;)

[Empress1]

16 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Unpopular opinion: Raisnets are gross. I like chocolate and I like raisins, but I do not like them together.

I'll stand beside you. I like both but not together either.

[ams1001]

18 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

That's why those drink and paint workshops are usually something scenic (think palm trees at the beach) or something graphic (shapes, not nudes) - it's much easier for people who aren't super artistic to recreate paintings like that than human bodies. If I'd been at that bachelorette party, Joe would have been a stick figure.

Don't they also have an instructor-type person to walk you through the painting?

19 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Unpopular opinion: Raisnets are gross. I like chocolate and I like raisins, but I do not like them together.

 

Probably not as unpopular as you think. I never liked them much, either. Definitely don't want them in my popcorn (though chocolate popcorn sounds good).

[Cheyanne11]

10 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Definitely don't want them in my popcorn (though chocolate popcorn sounds good).

Raisinets are gross (I hate raisins), but M&Ms in popcorn are a sublime treat!

[Blakeston]

The writers were really quite tone-deaf with the nude model situation. They clearly meant it as a "you go girl!" situation, but...no.

Can you even imagine how it would have come across if a woman had to stand there naked while some guy she dated crowed about getting his revenge on her, because she didn't return his texts? But I guess it's okay if a man is the one in that situation? Gross.

Plus, considering how needy and off-balance Madison was early in the series, it wouldn't surprise me if there was good reason for him to cut off contact.

Madison's dialogue with Kevin about how her "east coast friends" couldn't make it made me wonder if she's being fully honest with him. Hasn't she made it clear to Kate that she has no other friends that she gives a damn about whatsoever?

It sounded like she's giving Kevin the impression that she's started to grow away from her non-Kate friends because of distance and families, and that doesn't quite match what we've heard from her in the past.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Blakeston

[txhorns79]

33 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

When I married someone who lived 4 hours away, and I did not want to move there, he worked 4 days a week up there, came home, and worked at home one day, for a couple of years. That was 22 years ago and we are still married.

That might work for a more stable couple with older (or no) children, but it would be putting a pretty big burden on Kate to have a part-time job and be a single parent to a toddler with special needs and a newborn for four days a week.

[BC4ME]

If you've seen the movie Jerry Maguire, it sort of is Kevin's situation rn. 

Given the fact that he's been overly enamored of that movie for decades, is Jerry 2.0 a hint as to how next week will go? Maybe that's his story and he just hasn't made the connection yet. 

Also, such a lovely speech from Miguel.

[Granny58]

13 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

When Kate said that they were going to paint the stripper guy, I thought she meant literally paint him. As in, apply paint to his body. So when they showed the group painting pictures of him, I thought, Oh that makes more sense! How stupid am I?

No, I thought the same thing.  LOL. 

[CleoCaesar]

Toby/Tobias made a good point about the ending of Jerry Maguire - Jerry and Dorothy break up (for a valid reason; he's just not that into her) and then abruptly get back together without resolving any of their issues. He has a big night professionally and realizes that he wants a relationship like his friend/client's, and runs to tell Dorothy she completes him. It comes absolutely out of nowhere because we're never shown how she does that. It's a happy ending on only the most superficial level.

Kevin and Sophie's movie was Good Will Hunting (as referenced last season). It ends with Will having worked through the issues that held him back in relationships/career/life in general (via his therapy sessions and the "It's not your fault" breakthrough) and then leaving for California to "see about a girl." It's a much more hopeful and promising ending for the couple than Jerry Maguire.

Sophie is Kevin's endgame, IMO, even if his wedding and marriage to Madison takes place. And since we're talking movie metaphors, I think the show will pull a Definitely, Maybe, i.e. the person you marry and have kids with is not necessarily the person you will grow old with.

[AriAu]

Quote

Unpopular opinion: Raisnets are gross. I like chocolate and I like raisins, but I do not like them together.

You got it sorta right-chocolate covered raisins are great, but Raisinets are all waxy and gross...and the raisins are way too small.

Quote

 I think the show will pull a Definitely, Maybe, i.e. the person you marry and have kids with is not necessarily the person you will grow old with.

Like the reference (and the movie) and is kinda what I was trying to say above-I can see Kevin saying "you complete me" but cant believe he will mean it when it comes to Madison....but I think he means it about Sophie.

[meep.meep]

1 hour ago, AriAu said:

 

While I thought the Beth/Rebecca scene was very touching, what was Beth thinking letting Rebecca go home alone...what were any of them thinking. Given the dose of misery that this show usually serves up, I was sure we were heading for a disaster.

They were clearly leaving in Uber's.  The driver already had the address to take Rebecca to.  She was never in danger of wandering off.

I've never seen Jerry Maguire or wanted to.  I don't care if Kevin gets back together with Sophie.  It may be time for me to quit this show.

[chitowngirl]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

That would have been a bigger blow to his ego than the ghosting talk. ;)

Though he DID admit he was a jerk

[Blakeston]

I don't think he had much room to argue, under the circumstances. A bad review from a customer could cost him his job.

Re: Jerry Maguire - I've always hated the "you complete me" line. There are far too many people looking for a significant other who will somehow complete them, which is not a healthy mindset to have.

[Empress1]

1 minute ago, Blakeston said:

Re: Jerry Maguire - I've always hated the "you complete me" line. There are far too many people looking for a significant other who will somehow complete them, which is not a healthy mindset to have.

Could not agree more. It's a lot to lay on another person, to expect them to "complete you." You need to come to the table fully formed. Like Michelle Obama says, find someone who elevates you, but you need to come to the table as a whole person.

Also, possible unpopular opinion: Jerry Maguire is highly overrated - Cuba Gooding Jr. and Regina King (who usually elevates whatever she's in) are the best parts of the movie but the rest of it is very meh, IMO.

[MBayGal]

4 hours ago, ams1001 said:

the fact that he's talking to a recruiter about a job that far away without even mentioning it to Kate is going to be an issue. (So is her taking a job and telling him after the fact but at least she's not asking him to completely uproot their lives.)

She was asking him to completely uproot HIS life, expecting him to be a  stay-at-home-dad, which he is not emotionally cut out for, without ever discussing it with him.

[txhorns79]

11 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

She was asking him to completely uproot HIS life, expecting him to be a  stay-at-home-dad, which he is not emotionally cut out for, without ever discussing it with him.

She wasn't really though.  She took a part-time job and asked her children's father to care for them on his own during the few hours she would be absent during the day because he currently has the time to do so.  I just struggle with the argument that a parent is not emotionally cut out to be at home alone with their children on any regular basis.  I can understand a parent not wanting to be a stay at home parent, or feeling it is not the right role, but suggesting they can't emotionally handle it makes me question how they intend to be a parent, because even in a couple, there are lots of times when a parent has to handle the kids solo for extended periods.       

Quote

Also, possible unpopular opinion: Jerry Maguire is highly overrated

It's a perfect Pearson movie.  There is lots of speech-ifying, and big moments, without a lot of thought being given to how the relationships are going to work in practical terms. 

And am I wrong, or is the actress who plays the 20-something version of Beth much smaller than present-day Beth? 

[3 is enough]

Yes, the actress that plays young Beth is tiny.  But a good match in so many other ways.

Not the biggest fan of Raisinets, but their Canadian counterpart, Glosettes, are delicious.  The chocolate is creamier and it makes all the difference.

I don't think I ever saw Jerry Maguire from beginning to end, just bits and pieces on tv.  I do not like Tom Cruise, so I avoid his movies.  It is a perfect Pearson movie, though.

[Empress1]

Just now, 3 is enough said:

The chocolate is creamier and it makes all the difference.

Raisinette chocolate is waxy and gross, so I could see how better chocolate would make chocolate-covered raisins more appealing.

[SunnyBeBe]

4 hours ago, AriAu said:

Then you haven't seen Jerry Maguire! In the video taken at the Jerry/Dorothy practically shotgun wedding, there is a scene showing us all the doubts he has and whether it is relief or true joy or just doing the right thing or rushing into things or circumstances aligning rather than true love.....sound familiar.

Some of the parallels were pretty true:

1.Randall/Beth do give off some Cuba/Regina (really Rod/Marcy) vibe from the movie as a couple that has each other's back and can keep them very "real" by calling them out on their bullshit;

2 Kevin clearly has a need to make the huge gesture all the time. Then again, so does Randall...must be something in the drinking water at the Pearson house!

3.  I could clearly see Jack and his sidekick son thinking this was the best movie ever (come'on, we could all see Jack doing the living room "you complete me" routine).......

But just not sure Kevin is really looking at Madison with "you complete me"....and not sure Kevin will be really happy not making movies, being on location and hence the other doubts about the future.

Couple random thoughts.

Yes, Randall has called Toby "Tobias" before....a few times.

Yes, Toby's male ego is going to destroy his marriage, but, just out of curiosity, what cash are they living on?

While I thought the Beth/Rebecca scene was very touching, what was Beth thinking letting Rebecca go home alone...what were any of them thinking. Given the dose of misery that this show usually serves up, I was sure we were heading for a disaster.

Going to be a hell of a cliff hanger next week....any predictions on what the flash forward gives us??? Probably the wrong thread for that.

 

I agree about Rebecca going home alone, though driven and seeming to have no real moments of difficulty due to her Alzheimer’s, that we saw last night. Hmmmm.....she had a great day for sure.    I’m not sure how long it’s been time wise since her diagnosis, but apparently she’s progressing very slowly.  Still, it doesn’t seem the family is aware of what could happen due to her progressive condition.  Except for the early stages, a person should not be left alone.  I suppose though he’s concerned, Miguel felt she was safe enough.  I find this suspicious and the writers failure to follow continuity.  It’s common with series shows. They want the big drama and storyline, but  later don’t bother with it, if it doesn’t suit their purpose.  Empathy is one of the first things to be affected by dementia, but Rebecca seems to have retained hers perfectly. 

[Madding crowd]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

She wasn't really though.  She took a part-time job and asked her children's father to care for them on his own during the few hours she would be absent during the day because he currently has the time to do so.  I just struggle with the argument that a parent is not emotionally cut out to be at home alone with their children on any regular basis.  I can understand a parent not wanting to be a stay at home parent, or feeling it is not the right role, but suggesting they can't emotionally handle it makes me question how they intend to be a parent, because even in a couple, there are lots of times when a parent has to handle the kids solo for extended periods.       

It's a perfect Pearson movie.  There is lots of speech-ifying, and big moments, without a lot of thought being given to how the relationships are going to work in practical terms. 

And am I wrong, or is the actress who plays the 20-something version of Beth much smaller than present-day Beth? 

Yes, asking Toby to spend a few hours a day watching his own children when he is not currently working is not anything unusual or selfish. Should she quit her part time job because Toby needs time to sit around? I’m sure they will make other arrangements when he starts working again.

I have tried to like Madison but she is too much of a blank slate. She doesn’t seem to have a family, friends, job or interests and the actress is kind of dull. I don’t think they are ready for marriage. 

[tennisgurl]

So what is it about Madison that she is apparently incapable of having friends other then Kate? We know she's estranged from her family who are apparently too busy to ever talk to her, but she really has no one else besides Kate? Normally I would say that's just a TV thing where characters only have the main cast in their weddings and baby showers and no other friends or family so they don't have to add a bunch of one off characters, but Madison specifically brought up how hard it is for her to make friends. Is she just really shy around other people, or she doesn't really like people for the most part? She seems like a perfectly nice pretty young woman, I feel like there is something about her that we don't fully get yet. I guess she just has a lot of walls up because of her ambiguously dysfunctional family? I think they might pull a switch on us and build up Kevin calling the wedding off when actually Madison is the one who has second thoughts and stops the wedding. I feel like we still know so little about her, its hard to even think of what her job is. Did she work at a bank? What does she like to do? Does she have any aspirations? No wonder her her perfect morning is just sitting around. 

Yeah for Nicky looking for Sally!

I just hope we aren't going back to Sophie/Kevin, they've already tried that several times and it never works out, and Sophie really rubbed me the wrong way with her phone call to Kevin. If she just wanted to send a friendly congrats to give them some mutual closure, I would think a text or a FB message would do, like what I sent an ex of mine when I saw he was getting married, but calling and then being kind of weird about her number seemed like she was hoping that Kevin was still pining away for her just a bit. I guess she likes being The One That Got Away. 

Miguel's speech about how he and Rebecca didn't have an epic rom com love but instead something that was slowly built over time was really beautiful. His love for Rebecca is so sweet, I am glad that the other characters are finally applicating what a good guy he is. I also loved both scenes with Beth and Rebecca, especially when Rebecca was talking about how nice it was that Beth talked to her like Rebecca, Mother in Law, and not Rebecca, Dementia Patient.

I cant decide whether or not Randall calling Toby Tobias is funny, weird, or just super extra. Its Randall though, so probably all three. I cant blame Toby for wanting to take any job he can get, even if they have to move, but he and Kate really need to talk. If he is serious about this job, he needs to talk to Kate immediately, especially now that Kate is the Best and Most Inspirational Assistant Teacher Ever. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by tennisgurl

[buttersister]

Dry eye episode for me. Miguel's speech was the highlight. Rebecca and Beth in second place.

I'll be amazed if the wedding goes through. Don't care who calls it off--although it's preferable to be Mysterious Madison (she with the no relationships and who'd been out of BFF Kate's life for awhile before having sex with Kate's brother). She's boring. Her major contribution was giving Kevin something to do and being nice to Nicky. Kevin will supply plenty of child support $$ so whatever job she had, she can swap for being a SAHM. Doesn't seem to have ambitions beyond that. Don't know if that's all the actress' fault or that the writers (hi, Dan) never knew what to do with her.

Kevin, if you're Jerry McGuire, you have my sympathies. And I'm sorry that you never outgrew the teen you that found him a role model. I think your dad liked the sports parts the best. Also, I loathe Tom Cruise.

 

Edited May 19, 2021 by buttersister

[LeighLeigh]

I love teen Sophie. She is so bubbly and bright. Adult Sophie is dour and depressed. I don’t see any link between the actresses. I see no chemistry between Kevin and adult Sophie. 
 

[ljenkins782]

7 hours ago, ams1001 said:

It seems like a lot of people have strong feelings about Sophie, and I just don't get it. (Some of it seems to be that they are fans of the actress, who I am not otherwise familiar with, so there's that.) They were childhood sweethearts who got married too young, tried again later and didn't work...I'm not seeing the grand Pearson love story there, despite his Jerry Maguire "mission statement" at 18 or however old they were.

I don't have strong feelings about Sophie (and am not familiar with the actress), but in This is Us-land, I think she carries more significance because she was there in the "before" and Kevin being out in the woods with Sophie is the reason he wasn't at home, either in the basement dying in the fire OR saving their dad by stopping him from going back in (depending on which revisionist history "what if" scenario you favor). She's a part of that big trauma they all share and since this entire show is based on that event, it automatically makes her a forever fixture in the Pearson realm.

If the news of Kevin leaving the movie set to be there for the birth of the kids, Sophie could be a little irked at that since Kevin not showing up/being fully present for things was a big issue with them, I think. It's a common thing that happens with ex wives or children from a first marriage where they resent the second wife or second set of kids who get a more attentive husband/father than what they had. But that's part of life and the process of learning from mistakes and maturing. But the idea of "well, if he'd only acted like THAT when we were together can certainly spark some nostalgia or even make someone reach out to restart something in a relationship that failed before. 

If they do end up getting married, I think Madison will always wonder if the pregnancy was the only reason, but that's life for a lot of people. And it's impossible to know what would have happened on the paths you chose not to take, so it's always better to take Miguel's approach and find the positives in your circumstances.

 

[nixgirl28]

8 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Broken record here, but Madison creeps me out. She's estranged from her family. Her father pre-emptively has an emergency business thing days/weeks before her wedding?* Not one of her 'friends' can make it out to her wedding shower? She mentioned Kevin being 'polite' about responding to her texts post-one-night-stand, but it didn't seem to me that there was any contact between them afterwards until she turned up pregnant. (Could be wrong about that but that's how I recall it.) Naked Model Guy ghosted her and didn't seem all that eager to defend himself. All that and her mood swings over Kevin and his career, etc., just seem like giant waving red flags to me.

*and has Kevin even met or talked to the man yet?

I agree. Madison is the common denominator here, what's the deal? 

For the penultimate episode this was pretty dull. More tension, more doubts and apprehension. More of the same. Nothing progressed the story, maybe the flashback snippet of Rebecca and Miguel but otherwise, I could've not seen the episode and not missed anything. This used to be my favorite show, now I'm just glad there's only one season left.

[30 Helens]

Just because Toby didn’t talk to Kate before looking into the SF job doesn’t mean he won’t talk to her before accepting it. Given how much they fight, maybe he wants to see if a big discussion is even necessary first.

19 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I think Kate realized that young Kevin had similar dreams for the future  as Madison did, he just didn't have them with Madison. 

I think she also saw in his brief far-away look that he was still having those dreams. Madison also saw that brief look and realized that he was feeling something he didn’t want to share. 

14 hours ago, kitkat343 said:

I think part of the issue was nothing was clear with the ex.  Was he a stripper or was he a model who posed for art classes?  

Model, not a stripper.

Both parties were weird. I’ve taken art classes and was not uncomfortable painting a nude model in that setting, but as a party game, especially when the model is an ex, seems a little creepy and voyeuristic. And the guys’ idea of fun is watching a movie? OK, then. 

 

8 hours ago, MissL said:

I do like the actress although I can’t remember why or what I’ve seen her in. 

Alexandra Breckinridge has been in a number of series, including Walking Dead and True Blood. She’s currently starring in Virgin River, which is one reason I assumed Sophie was done.

4 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Also, possible unpopular opinion: Jerry Maguire is highly overrated - Cuba Gooding Jr. and Regina King (who usually elevates whatever she's in) are the best parts of the movie but the rest of it is very meh, IMO.

Well, that makes the movie even more fitting, considering Randall and Beth are the best parts of this show.

[nixgirl28]

Some more thoughts: what are the women going to do with their paintings of the naked model? Haha

We know Kate and Toby don't move to SF, we see the montage of Jack growing up and creating music in their garage. Maybe he works remotely or commutes, and years of that causes their marriage to fall apart? Maybe he stays in LA. 

How did Toby and Kate afford a cross country flight for a the bachelor party as well as Kate throwing the bachelorette party? 

[ams1001]

31 minutes ago, 30 Helens said:

And the guys’ idea of fun is watching a movie? OK, then. 

Well, they were supposed to go fishing (which does not sound fun to me, either), but it rained so they were stuck inside.

18 minutes ago, nixgirl28 said:

How did Toby and Kate afford a cross country flight for a the bachelor party as well as Kate throwing the bachelorette party? 

Maybe Kevin bought the tickets?

[KaveDweller]

5 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I don't think he had much room to argue, under the circumstances. A bad review from a customer could cost him his job.

Re: Jerry Maguire - I've always hated the "you complete me" line. There are far too many people looking for a significant other who will somehow complete them, which is not a healthy mindset to have.

I loved the "you complete me" line when I was in high school and first saw Jerry Maguire. But now I thought Toby made some really good points. Nothing had changed and Jerry and Dorothy probably wouldn't have lasted. Thanks for ruining the memory of the movie, Toby.

6 hours ago, meep.meep said:

They were clearly leaving in Uber's.  The driver already had the address to take Rebecca to.  She was never in danger of wandering off.

They were in Ubers, but Rebecca could have typed the wrong address into her Uber.

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So what is it about Madison that she is apparently incapable of having friends other then Kate? We know she's estranged from her family who are apparently too busy to ever talk to her, but she really has no one else besides Kate? Normally I would say that's just a TV thing where characters only have the main cast in their weddings and baby showers and no other friends or family so they don't have to add a bunch of one off characters, but Madison specifically brought up how hard it is for her to make friends. Is she just really shy around other people, or she doesn't really like people for the most part? She seems like a perfectly nice pretty young woman, I feel like there is something about her that we don't fully get yet. I guess she just has a lot of walls up because of her ambiguously dysfunctional family? I think they might pull a switch on us and build up Kevin calling the wedding off when actually Madison is the one who has second thoughts and stops the wedding. I feel like we still know so little about her, its hard to even think of what her job is. Did she work at a bank? What does she like to do? Does she have any aspirations? No wonder her her perfect morning is just sitting around. 

It is a bit weird, but not everyone has tons of friends or grows apart from friends as people get married/have kids. Not even everyone on this show has friends. Kate has no friends outside of Madison. Kevin seems to have no friends outside his exes. Randall had friends as a kid/teenager but the only friend we see refer to now is that guy he works with. Jack and Rebecca were shown to have friends when they were younger parents, but they seem to be an exception.

Plus, we know pretty little about Madison's backstory. She did have an eating disorder and so maybe she pushed people away because of trying to hide that for a long time? And she doesn't seem to work, which is where a lot of adults meet other people/socialize.

[Boo Boo]

20 hours ago, Jax7917 said:

I don’t get what both Kate and Madison saw when watching what Kevin said on the video . Did they see him daydream for a second ( of Sophie ) then come back to reality with thinking about Madison ? 
 

Did anyone else think Rebecca was going to lose her way and walk into the wrong house while she was on the phone with Miguel ? It seemed perfectly set up for that situation . 
 

I like Madison and I do think she and Kevin will end up getting married , but I would like for him to end up with Sophie . Not sure why , I just like them better together . 

I totally thought Rebecca was going to walk into the wrong house!

I've never really cared for the Sophie storyline so I'm hoping he stays with Madison.  I think he will and this angst will have been a waste. of an episode.

[ProudMary]

Telegraphing: In the flashbacks, we see that Kevin and Sophie had a long distance relationship for a few months and that Randall and Beth were anticipating a long distance relationship for a summer. 
Prediction: It's Kate's turn for a long distance relationship, probably for a limited time or part-time. Toby either starts out in SF for a while and then can work from home in LA or Toby works 2-3 days a week in SF and the rest of the time at home in LA.

Telegraphing: Rebecca and Miguel talk about how her meds are working well and her PET scan shows no further development. (The writers want to back off on the dementia story for a bit.) 
Rebecca says to Beth that Kate and Kevin don't even ask for my help with their kids. 
Prediction: Rebecca and Miguel will care for the kids while Kate keeps her part time assistant's position and Toby temporarily works in SF.

I loved Miguel's eye roll behind Nicky's back after the uncomfortable "How you doing, Nicky?" exchange. It was funny because while Nicky's often weird, getting caught Googling your ex-love is embarrassing, so that was a pretty normal reaction on Nicky's part.

Quotes of the episode:
Beth: Leave the boots on.  (Beth and Randall are the #1 reason I'm still watching this show.)

Joe, the male model: Did you want to paint me in boxer briefs or in full nude?
Rebecca: The latter.

[Snapdragon]

Apparently I'm the only one on this board that likes Jerry Maguire.  LOL.  That being said, I never felt like Tom Cruise's character was deeply in love with Renee Zellweger's.  He just really cared about her kid.  As a teenager, I remember a friend and I discussing this and feeling bad for Zellweger's character but as an adult, I kinda feel like ending up with a guy who you have physical chemistry with, has a good job and is a good father to your kid is actually be a pretty good deal.

Okay, onto the important stuff.  First off, Sophie is wrong.  It is very weird to call an ex to congratulate them on their marriage and kids.  She and Kevin were awful together and I don't understand Kevin's (and the writers') obsession with her.  

I am done with Uncle Nicky and his rude ass behavior (Actually, I was done with Uncle Nicky once they showed that his cowardly self got a child killed, but that's a rant for another day).  First he goes off on Miguel for absolutely no reason, then he tells Kevin that he's only getting married because he got Madison pregnant.  There are a few people in my life whose significant others I didn't like and whose marriages I thought were a bad idea but I certainly didn't say anything to those people because that would have been completely inappropriate and rude as hell.  For pity's sake, they named one of their twins after him and that's how he's going to act?  He can go die alone in his stupid trailer for all I care.  And I hope that when Nicky tracks down Sally, she's married to a great guy and has had a great, Pearson-free life, though I doubt that will be the case because no exes on this show are allowed to find love with anyone else.  She's probably just been sitting around in her van, pining for him for the last fifty years or whatever.  

That bachelorette party was one of the most awkward things I've ever witnessed.  Having your soon to be mother-in-law at your bachelorette party?  Awkward.  Having some guy come to your house so you and your friends can paint him in the nude?  Awkward.  Having said nude model turn out to be someone you knew in any capacity, let alone someone you dated?  Super awkward.  You and your friends making disparaging remarks about the nude model while he's in earshot?  That's just terrible behavior all around.  

It's obvious that the writers on this show don't understand working in IT versus working in the tech industry in general.  Sure, tech companies have IT people but so does literally every other business.  Hospitals have IT people, schools have IT people, small businesses have IT vendors that they employ.  The fact that they keep having him interview with tech companies is ridiculous and every time they do, I mentally scream, "For the love of all that's holy, Toby!  Put in for a job with the local school district.  They're probably desperate for IT people right now!"

Despite all that, I still enjoyed this episode and am looking forward to next week.  I like Madison and Kevin together so I'm hoping they actually go through with the marriage.

[ShadowFacts]

9 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

I know that Madison is not Kevin's soulmate. But I don't think that Sophie is either. Are we really going to have to deal with Sophie's issues next season on top of Madison's. If Madison is the one who backs out, that will be different. Maybe that would be the best thing to happen. Kevin can be secretly relieved, and still stay a part of the twins' lives. 

I would be fine if Kevin doesn't have a soulmate. He said something about being crazy about Madison, defensively, and he clearly is not. Sophie is not it, either. If Cassidy somehow shows up, I'll call shenanigans on that, they work well as friends. Remember when he met a woman in a coffee shop after he determined he wanted to be married and took her to see John Legend? He just wants what his parents had, he's said so across the years. Zoe called it right and he's realizing it. His kids can be the focus of his love for now, and maybe in the future, the real deal comes along, but Madison isn't it. Also, in the first flash-forward we saw, I think Randall asked Kevin's son "where's your dad?", not mom or mom and dad.  He's single or married to someone else, I bet.

[Boo Boo]

17 hours ago, chocolatine said:

That was lame. I didn't need an entire episode of pre-wedding jitters. You'd think with an abbreviated season, they would have been motivated to move things along. I did love what Miguel said about couples writing their own story though.

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I'm starting to get tired of Uncle Nicky's constant grumpiness and rudeness under the guise of honesty (he did that to Miguel a few episodes ago as well). I hope if/when he finds Sally he'll mellow a bit.

Toby's San Francisco job storyline would have worked pre-pandemic, but now most tech companies are letting people work from home permanently and tech workers are leaving the overpriced SF Bay area in droves. It's advantageous for companies as well because they can adjust salaries based on location and have a much larger talent pool to choose from.

Yes, he has.

Right -- that was the thought I had.  My company is on the other coast.  I work from home and have for 20 years.  

But of course, that wouldn't set up any marital strife!  

[wonderwoman]

9 hours ago, Blakeston said:

The writers were really quite tone-deaf with the nude model situation. They clearly meant it as a "you go girl!" situation, but...no.

Can you even imagine how it would have come across if a woman had to stand there naked while some guy she dated crowed about getting his revenge on her, because she didn't return his texts? But I guess it's okay if a man is the one in that situation? Gross.

yup — the double standard can cut both ways.

the scene that’s always stuck with me is in ‘the way we were.’ when redford’s character passes out drunk in streisand’s bed, she climbs in with him and they have sex. the guy’s so drunk he probably could have been screwing a goat, not to mention he’s just puked his brains out (yuk!). if the genders had be reversed, people, rightly, would have called it rape. yet some women say they find it romantic. go figure.

[greekmom]

Sorry this has been bothering me all day. I don't get the "look" that Kate and Madison got from Kevin.

You can't compare young Kevin and 40 year old Kev.

Of course when you are young you make those types of plans.  Get married at 25. Career goals at 28. Kids at 30. Then grow old.  But at 40 not many do that even when the marry. It's his second marriage.  He would just be hoping (given the circumstances) that it's going to work out.  Plus there's the pandemic to factor it.  Most people are just living day by day hoping to make it to the other side given the circumstances. 

I give Kevin a HUGE pass on that question.  It was a shitty question.