S04.E15: Clouds

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Kevin spends the day with Rebecca. Toby makes a grand gesture. The Big Three get their report cards.

Promo:

Original air date: 2/25/20

[ams1001]

Can I smack Randall? Please?

[gonzosgirrl]

Does anyone else watch Supernatural? Because I thought Randall was about 7 seconds away from going all Gordon Walker on the therapist. 

I hope Beth got through to him. That was a great scene.

Who would have thought Kevin would become my fav character. I totally expected Joni Mitchell to open the door.

Alzheimer's. Damnit.

Oh, and Madison gives good advice. 

[ShadowFacts]

Carpe diem Rebecca and Kevin were just great. Toby and Kate back on the same page were great. Randall in therapy was . . . well two out of three ain't bad.

[Spartan Girl]

Thank you Madison, for telling Kate that Toby should be able to share his fears and feelings without reprocussions! 

Boy Randall was spiraling to an asshole level at therapy. Proof he needs it.

Love the flash forward of Jack in the studio!

[CleoCaesar]

Adult Kevin's adoring face when he was listening to Rebecca sing was heartbreaking. Oh Justin Hartley, you and your expressive eyes.

God shut up, Randall. How does anyone in his life tolerate this sanctimonious asshole?

[chitowngirl]

It was nice to have a “quiet” episode after the last four. You can see where the rift is going to come from in the promo..

[debraran]

Love seeing Kevin and Rebecca spend time together. The chemistry between them as adults is something I don't see with the others quite the same. (but that is normal)

I saw the Randall/Kevin fight coming because of his control issues. Randall has to step back a bit. The new therapist hopefully will help.

A bit of filler today but overall a good show. I think at their age, the Madison/Kevin talk with Kate is silly. That I can't wrap myself around, but I did like seeing Rebecca more and Miguel had a sweet moment with her at the end.

I still hope they will educate with something other than Alzhiemers. I can't see the setup over the years for this with past illness, dizziness, tests, the accident. I think Mandy wasn't lying back 2 years ago, but maybe they changed their minds or there is more to come.

Edited February 26, 2020 by debraran

[Lady Calypso]

Kevin/Rebecca plots are very rare, but always a treasure to have in my life. It helps that both of them became my favourite characters in season 2 and that hasn't changed.

Randall's first therapy session was weird and had me frustrated at Randall, but also his shitty therapist. Who provokes their patient on their first session like that? 

I'm glad Toby/Kate seem to have worked things out for now. And we got a surprising glimpse into Jack's future in music!

I definitely think Randall/Kevin's estrangement stems from differing opinions on Rebecca's treatment now. It's just a question of what exactly happens and what Randall probably ends up saying to Kevin's face to hurt his feelings. Because, from what Randall said in therapy about Kevin, it shows that he holds a lot of negative feelings toward his brother.

[BC4ME]

My favorite part of the show:

Kate: something, something Madison slept with Kevin

Toby: I know we're in kind of a thing right now but permission to react...WHAT!?!? 

Edited February 26, 2020 by BC4ME

[bettername2come]

3 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Does anyone else watch Supernatural? Because I thought Randall was about 7 seconds away from going all Gordon Walker on the therapist. 

Haha. And here I was expecting better from him because he played a psychiatrist on Army Wives. 

I teared up at the Beth and Randall scene at the end. Great work there. It felt very real and honest and I appreciate that in the end, Randall is going to therapy for Beth. That makes sense for him. If his breakdowns didn't send him to therapy, his girls are the only thing that could. It's not fair to her to have her partner not be someone she can lean on and I appreciate him doing better. But he was right about turning off the coffee maker.

I'm suddenly realizing how much they've backed off that teen father's character. 

Jack Damon and the Bugs! Cause his mom's Bug!

Of course... Kevin and Randall aren't speaking August because he's getting closer to Rebecca now and they disagree on how to treat her. It was great to see them bonding in both timelines. I think I have to go buy a Mandy Moore album now. 

Madison was a good friend this episode. Actually, she's been a good friend this whole time. Annoying sometimes, but very loving and loyal. 

[ams1001]

2 minutes ago, BC4ME said:

My favorite part of the show:

Kate: something, something Madison slept with Kevin

Toby: I know we're in kind of a thing right but permission to react...WHAT!?!? 

"She's not going to be my sister-in-law, is she?" "No."

Foreshadowing...? (Especially combined with Kevin's "don't let me sleep with her" at the wedding.)

Edited February 26, 2020 by ams1001

[bettername2come]

Just now, BC4ME said:

My favorite part of the show:

Kate: something, something Madison slept with Kevin

Toby: I know we're in kind of a thing right but permission to react...WHAT!?!? 

I love that Kate actually gave him permission. She knew he wasn't kidding and he waited for her to say "yeah."

[ByaNose]

Nice episode with nice pleasant music. It’s setting up the next story arch between Kevin & Randall. Great episode. BTW! Randall still bugs me to no end. Ugh!

[CleoCaesar]

3 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

I'm suddenly realizing how much they've backed off that teen father's character. 

I had to wonder for a few seconds what you were talking about. That is how much I've mentally blocked out that aggressively uninteresting subplot.

[debraran]

6 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

"She's not going to be my sister-in-law, is she?" "No."

Foreshadowing...? (Especially combined with Kevin's "don't let me sleep with her" at the wedding.)

I hope not. Sleeping with someone isn't loving someone. He only loved Sophie so far. Getting pregnant with a one night stand is sooooo over done and cliche. Please TIU, don't do that with Madison. (even if she has an "in" with hubby)

Edited February 26, 2020 by debraran

[Autumn]

I think Randall’s remark to the therapist about how close he and Rebecca are and Rebecca telling Kevin she needs his humor in her life at this time is setting up the conflict.  Randall will not like Kevin becoming more involved.

I get a feeling the Kevin and Madison thing may turn out to be more than a one night stand.

The therapist cut right to the chase didn’t she by questioning Randall’s belief that he is the glue that is holding everyone together?  That’s kind of his whole identity.

[stonehaven]

Loved a lot of this but my favorite quiet moment was Kevin thinking he'd be busted by TMZ for breaking into the house with Mom...Uh, that could work....made me laugh.

 

[milner]

Lots of women would be happy if their brother and friend became a couple. Was it ever stated why Kate was against it?  The only valid reason I can think of is that she’s afraid Madison will get hurt. Many sisters in law become good friends 

[watcher1006]

17 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

I'm suddenly realizing how much they've backed off that teen father's character.

Do they have any time to explore the lives of Beth and Randall's children further this season? The season is rapidly drawing to a close.

I don't know about Randall's therapist. Seems to me it isn't an ideal relationship with a patient to hold back on what she knows about him for a good part of the first session. But maybe she can help him come to grips with his control issues.

I do love CS&N "Our House".

[Dejana]

7 minutes ago, milner said:

Lots of women would be happy if their brother and friend became a couple. Was it ever stated why Kate was against it?  The only valid reason I can think of is that she’s afraid Madison will get hurt. Many sisters in law become good friends 

Kevin's ex-wife was Kate's best friend from childhood. Kate and Sophie appear to have drifted apart even before the marriage ended and Kevin's track record with long-term relationships seems to be...not great. IMO, Kate's extreme wariness about Kevin and Madison is understandable.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Dejana

[Crs97]

Mandy and Justin played the heck out of their scenes, and Sterling's rant was impressive.  As much as I dislike the character of Randall, Sterling really brought his A game to that one-man roller coaster speech.  So glad Beth got her say.  My favorite moment was Kevin buying the baseball card as an adult.  Glad to see it was such a happy memory for him, too.

[bettername2come]

6 minutes ago, Dejana said:

Kevin's ex-wife was Kate's best friend from childhood. Kate and Sophie appear to have drifted apart even before the marriage ended

Was she though? I know when we're first introduced to her, Sophie's a guest at Kate's party, but I don't think there's been anything that implies they're particularly close.

[Blakeston]

19 minutes ago, milner said:

Lots of women would be happy if their brother and friend became a couple. Was it ever stated why Kate was against it?

Maybe Kate knew that Madison was gross enough to describe a sexual position Kevin put her in?

That isn't something anyone should have to think about their sibling doing. Especially not with their best friend.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Blakeston

[BuckeyeLou]

"Our House" is one of my Favorite songs!  Loved hearing Mandy sing it & Milo joining in.  Kevin's stinging remark to his Mom that she was not as fun as Sophie's Mom really had to hurt her & she made sure to have fun with Kevin at the Card shop...a happy memory for both of them. (We saw those scenes of Sophie's Mom & how much she loved seeing Kevin).  Kevin is certainly maturing & in a way, Randall is regressing...his childhood anxieties have come back to haunt him.  Loved the scenes of Jack teaching young Randall how running can help clear his head.  The young actors in this show are all so terrific & pick up the nuances that we see in the adult Actors.   The show is setting up the rift between Randall & Kevin(will Kate be in the middle?)

[mtlchick]

I quite enjoyed it.  Loved the dynamic between Kevin and Rebecca, and sets the stage that he may (or probably) becomes her main caretaker in 10 years for reasons shown tonight. It will come down to Randall thinking that Kevin is irresponsible and only he knows what he's doing without thinking Rebecca may not want what he's selling. And Kate will probably side with Kevin, meaning Randall who always felt to be the odd one out due to being adopted, more isolated from there. 

Mandy singing classic songs will never get boring or old. 

[Bulldog]

Justin Hartley really is the unsung hero of this show.  The Kevin/Rebecca scenes (both timelines) were definitely the highlight.  I'm glad Kevin being the last to find out about the illness didn't turn into "a thing." Although, I did notice in the report card scene, Rebecca practically said "let's rush Kevin out of the way so we can focus on our other children" (OK, I paraphrase).  The card store scenes were fun. 

I like Randall, but man, can he be insufferable at times.  At least he is consistent -- from the lobbying to get the A- changed to an A up to the therapist scenes, his need for perfect control remains steady.  Although I would have likely ripped the coffee maker from the socket and tossed it across the room. 

I noticed Kate was featured in the early scenes of the Jack montage, but not the later.  Now, that could easily be explained as Jack becoming more independent as he aged.  But, given Kate hasn't been seen in the flash forwards, I wonder if it is foretelling something more ominous.  

Still don't understand why two consenting adults would need (or want) Kate's approval of a one night stand.  While Madison actually gave some good advice tonight, she really needs to stop the grovelling.  She is a much better friend to Kate than vice versa. 

Alzheimers.  Damn. 

[Blackie]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

'm glad Toby/Kate seem to have worked things out for now

 

Did he tell her about the choking incident? is that going to come back to get him in trouble???

1 hour ago, CleoCaesar said:

Adult Kevin's adoring face when he was listening to Rebecca sing was heartbreaking. Oh Justin Hartley, you and your expressive eyes.

 

yes it was a beautiful scene

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

 

Randall's first therapy session was weird and had me frustrated at Randall, but also his shitty therapist. Who provokes their patient on their first session like that? 

I felt like it was kind of a Hail Mary pass, because Randall has about 47,000 built in defense mechanisms that one has to get through before getting to him, and she was trying to get to the issue.

[ams1001]

I thought it was interesting how we didn't see the therapist's face until the end, when Randall went back and seemed ready to actually give her a chance to help.

[camom]

For someone who has been hospitalized for mental health issues at least twice, Randall behaved as though he'd never seen a therapist before.  He should have one on speed dial.

I noticed throughout the episode that they weren't showing the therapist, then they did at the very end.  Were we supposed to recognize her?  It was kind of weird.

I agree that the Kevin/Randall rift will be due to Randall not liking Kevin's involvement in Rebecca's care.  I also think that Kevin will listen to his mom's wishes about her care (at least as long as she is able to make decisions) and that Randall will think that only he knows best.

[nlkm9]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

"She's not going to be my sister-in-law, is she?" "No."

Foreshadowing...? (Especially combined with Kevin's "don't let me sleep with her" at the wedding.)

She sounds like she loved the sex and i would like to know what they were doing upside down. I can’t get that graham nash some out of my head. This show always gets to me !

14 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

Justin Hartley really is the unsung hero of this show.  The Kevin/Rebecca scenes (both timelines) were definitely the highlight.  I'm glad Kevin being the last to find out about the illness didn't turn into "a thing." Although, I did notice in the report card scene, Rebecca practically said "let's rush Kevin out of the way so we can focus on our other children" (OK, I paraphrase).  The card store scenes were fun. 

I like Randall, but man, can he be insufferable at times.  At least he is consistent -- from the lobbying to get the A- changed to an A up to the therapist scenes, his need for perfect control remains steady.  Although I would have likely ripped the coffee maker from the socket and tossed it across the room. 

I noticed Kate was featured in the early scenes of the Jack montage, but not the later.  Now, that could easily be explained as Jack becoming more independent as he aged.  But, given Kate hasn't been seen in the flash forwards, I wonder if it is foretelling something more ominous.  

Still don't understand why two consenting adults would need (or want) Kate's approval of a one night stand.  While Madison actually gave some good advice tonight, she really needs to stop the grovelling.  She is a much better friend to Kate than vice versa. 

Alzheimers.  Damn. 

 I wonder if Kate’s weight leads to an early Demise. I loved seeing jacks transformation into adult singer. So i don’t remember in the flash forward Randall and Kevin aren’t speaking and Kate isn’t there correct ?

[Ms Blue Jay]

Yayyy Blue Jays!  That's where my screenname is from.  LOL

I didn't think Randall was an asshole at therapy at all…. 

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Randall's first therapy session was weird and had me frustrated at Randall, but also his shitty therapist. Who provokes their patient on their first session like that? 

Thank you.  I see the pushy, aggressive, provocative therapist a lot on television, and they always get a lot of defenders as if that's the only way to counsel people.  In real life, there are so many other ways to be a good therapist in my opinion and experience.  One I like in popular fiction is Rainn Wilson on "Mom".

The therapist should have disclosed knowing Randall immediately.  

Edited February 26, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Blackie]

I laughed (as a Canadian) when Kevin said he wanted to be paid in "American" dollars.

[Kktjones]

21 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

Although, I did notice in the report card scene, Rebecca practically said "let's rush Kevin out of the way so we can focus on our other children" (OK, I paraphrase).

Yeah she said "Let's do Kev's real quick and then I'll go talk to her". Yikes! Then even though he had Cs (and Ds?), she was more concerned with Randall and didn't even want to talk about Kevin's report card. 

I agree with everyone that loved the Rebecca/Kevin scenes. And I do think Randall won't understand when Kevin is trying to keep things light and fun with Rebecca. He doesn't know that that's exactly what she wants/needs from Kevin...

[chocolatine]

I know the musical focus of this episode was Our House, but I, being the same age as the Big Three, was much more excited about Blind Melon's No Rain (the music video tween Kate was watching after Stuart broke up with her). I hope we'll get to see Kate sing it to Baby Jack some day. It's so great that the two of them are going to have music as their special bond!

I love Pamela Adlon and would love it if, from now, she popped up every time Randall says something pompous and said "would they?" in that signature voice of hers. 😀

I also loved the Kevin and Rebecca scenes in both timelines. It's great that Kevin has special memories of 1:1 time with his mom, even if he does feel like the neglected child. Rebecca asking to skip the doctor's appointment to go eat sushi broke my heart. She must have sensed that the MRI results wouldn't be good and wanted to squeeze in as much fun as possible before she officially became a woman who has Alzheimer's.

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

"She's not going to be my sister-in-law, is she?" "No."

Foreshadowing...? (Especially combined with Kevin's "don't let me sleep with her" at the wedding.)

I thought the same thing, also because Madison pointed out that Kevin had seen her without makeup, and being non-perky, and still slept with her. Which made me really sad for Madison. Whether or not she ends up being "the mother", I hope she works on her self-esteem.

Edited February 26, 2020 by chocolatine

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, Bulldog said:

Although, I did notice in the report card scene, Rebecca practically said "let's rush Kevin out of the way so we can focus on our other children" (OK, I paraphrase). 

It didn't really make sense to me that Rebecca said she wouldn't have time after school to go to the baseball card store because of errands: dry cleaning, library, grocery store.  I know she has a lot of laundry etc to get done, but most stay-at-home moms do their errands while the kids are in school. If she didn't want to take him, she just should have said so.  Once Kevin went with her to run errands and she took him to buy perishable groceries, she further showed that she really had no intention of doing what he had requested.

I did think it funny that she mentioned buying chicken, and then said they would have to go quickly in the baseball card store because of frozen vegetables and dairy products. I certainly hope the chicken was next to the frozen vegetables, because they spent a lot of time opening the cards before bringing the groceries home.

Edited February 26, 2020 by ItCouldBeWorse

[hookedontv]

29 minutes ago, camom said:

I noticed throughout the episode that they weren't showing the therapist, then they did at the very end.  Were we supposed to recognize her?  It was kind of weird.

It was kind of weird but I wonder if we only saw her after Randall went back for a second session and maybe finally acknowledged or “saw” her for the first time. The first session he was not engaged, he was rattling things off to her, was totally uncomfortable, and didn’t think he needed to be there. The second session, Randall appears to be focused and a little more relaxed. 

Tonight’s episode was the very first time I ever liked Madison. Good for her for telling Kate That Toby Should be able to tell her any of his feelings without fear of being punished. And maybe it was TMI for Kate but I burst out laughing at the “he had me literally upside down” comment. 

As everyone is saying, the scenes between Kevin and Rebecca were just beautiful. 

The scenes for next week are telling. And I don’t even think it the rift will have anything to do with Randall disagreeing with Kevin about Rebecca’s treatment. I think it will have to do with Randall’s need for absolute control and his belief that the entire family, mainly Rebecca, would have fallen apart without him. Without that, I think he feels lost. He will not understand “Carpe Diem Rebecca” and how that pairs magically with Kevin’s personality.  And that she needs that. At this point in her diagnosis, I think she will take any doctor’s advice seriously, but intends to have fun and not let the illness define her. Kevin will be her best ally in this. And Miguel. When Randall seethed to the therapist about Miguel not noticing I felt his loathing. And it’s awful. 

Edited February 26, 2020 by hookedontv

[HollyGoLitely333]

A good episode, I thought. 

So, turns out Kevin is the more stable, capable brother after all. My DVR cut the promo for the next episode, but I am guessing Randall can't handle not being the hero because he thinks that's his identity - just look at his hand. The irony that he is the one who can't take care of his own family because of his untreated anxiety while he thinks Kevin is the family screw up is what I'm guessing to be a huge contributor to the rift that leaves Randall out of the birthday celebration in August. 

I'm so intrigued to see what will happen with Kate. She's shown with 4/5 year old Jack so we know she's around and in that house for a while. We know that Jack will grow up in that house at least throughout his teenage years. I continue to have a bad feeling in my gut about Kate's future. I loved seeing Jack's growing up scenes! I really can't wait to flesh that storyline out. There's still a question mark about who attends that dinner party in the future when his wife/fiancee is pregnant. 

I officially want Madison and Kevin to be a couple. 

Randall gives me anxiety. just watching him. 

I've really been adoring Kevin this season. 

My first dance with my husband at our wedding was CSNY "Our House" so it holds a lot of meaning for me. Watching those parallel scenes with young Rebecca/Jack & current Rebecca/Kevin singing and then watching Jack growing up playing music in the studio with it playing out the episode was one of my favorite parts of this season - maybe the show. 

[willco]

At the first commercial break after Randall's therapy session, I called my sister and said, "10 bucks says the therapist is his birth mother or a sister he didn't know about, or something like that. Because we didn't see her face and that is something it seem like this show would do. Hey, so I was wrong ! It happens, I'm not Randall ( ha ha). But I wonder about not showing her, was it just so the focus would be solely on Randall ? And yeah, he needs it badly !

 

I'm in the group that doesn't get Kate rage about Madison & Kevin hooking up. I get it might be a little weird for her, but that should be the extent of it-- they are both adults, and willing it seems.

I don't remember, is there a significance to the Blue Jays card for Kevin ? Does he like the player or the team. ( I was doing other things , so if they mentioned the reason tonight, I'll catch it later when I watch the whole show.)

[camom]

Quote

 is there a significance to the Blue Jays card for Kevin ?

I think young Kevin just needed that one to complete a set, and he and Rebecca found it together.  A good memory for adult Kevin.

 

[colorbars]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

I hope not. Sleeping with someone isn't loving someone. He only loved Sophie so far. Getting pregnant with a one night stand is sooooo over done and cliche. Please TIU, don't do that with Madison. (even if she has an "in" with hubby)

He loved Zoe, too? Obviously she's not a likely candidate for the fiancee/mother, but I don't think Sophie is the only woman he's been shown to love.

[Quiet1]

Touching episode. Loved Beth letting Randall know that she needed him to see the therapist and I'm happy he is doing so. It was nice seeing the Jack montage of music being such an important part of his life from the start. 

Please kill off Madison soon. She is extremely immature. Middle school level. Perverted of her to talk to Kate about her twin brother that way. Obviously she doesn't have any other friends to talk to, but go to a family member or therapist or keep it to yourself. 

It was nice seeing Kate and Toby working on things. Rebecca and Kevin scenes were so great. The best part of a good episode. 

[chocolatine]

16 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I did think it funny that she mentioned buying chicken, and then said they would have to go quickly in the baseball card store because of frozen vegetables and dairy products. I certainly hope the chicken was next to the frozen vegetables, because they spent a lot of time opening the cards before bringing the groceries home.. 

We know that Rebecca likes to play fast and loose with poultry food safety.

[bybrandy]

12 minutes ago, willco said:

I'm in the group that doesn't get Kate rage about Madison & Kevin hooking up.

I haven't seen any rage from Kate, just annoyance.   It is super awkward when your friends and sibs hook up because if they breakup it is messy and ugly and Kate would have to pick Kev because Kate and Kev are a team but she would lose what would be the only good female friend we've ever seen her with.  I think she'd be more supportive if Kev and Madison were in love and in an actual relationship but hooking up sometimes is bound to lead to somebody getting hurt and Kate getting put in the middle and ultimately potentially ruining her relationship with Madison.  She gets to be annoyed.  But I haven't seen any actual anger.

2 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

We know that Rebecca likes to play fast and loose with poultry food safety.

And the Big 3 clearly are lucky she built up their immune systems early since she's going to keep trying to give them foodborne illnesses.

[Quiet1]

Could be that it's not really a rift in the family. Maybe through therapy, Randall realizes he needs a little break and asks them to not contact him for a bit unless it's an emergency. 

[bybrandy]

6 minutes ago, Quiet1 said:

Please kill off Madison soon. She is extremely immature. Middle school level.

She told Kate to cut Toby some slack and to let him feel how he's feeling.  That was the best advice Kate has gotten, like ever.

 

[Quiet1]

1 minute ago, bybrandy said:

She told Kate to cut Toby some slack and to let him feel how he's feeling.  That was the best advice Kate has gotten, like ever.

 

I did like that part and agreed with her.

[nilyank]

I did burst out laughing when the therapist interrupted Randall in the middle of his speeches about his fathers to tell him that she heard his speeches before.

Like NOPE to your inspirational/motivational speeches.

You're not the only one therapist who has felt like that.

[phalange]

Both the present and past scenes of Kevin and Rebecca bonding and having a fun day out were really sweet. It isn't often young Kevin seems to have days with just him and one of his parents, so that was certainly a special memory for him. Kevin and Rebecca trespassing at Joni Mitchell's old house juxtaposed with young Rebecca and Jack looking for it was well done. More of Mandy Moore singing folk songs, please!

I was already on Team Madison, but this episode further confirmed it for me. The way she talked about Kevin makes it seem like a good match. They both want someone who sees them for who they are. Also, I died at "I'll Kill Bill both of them." Madison is ride or die, and I respect that. Toby's reaction Kevin and Madison was hilarious, too.

The set-up Toby created for baby Jack with all the instruments really was sweet. He's been on my nerves for a few episodes, but I think what happened in the last episode made him realize he needs to step it up, and he is. The montage with Jack growing up learning to love music was perfect.

Good for Randall for going back to therapy, even if it took the conversation with Beth to get him to do it. Not showing the therapist until the end when he was open to being there was a nice directing choice. Even with the therapy though, it appears there's still going to be control issues about Rebecca's care that leads to the fallout with Kevin.