S04.E13: A Hell of a Week: Part Three

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Kate finds strength in unexpected places.

Promo:

Original air date: 2/11/20

[RedDelicious]

Ben Folds Five takes me right back to college 💔

[mtlchick]

Maybe it's due to the use of Teenage Kate, but this was probably my favourite Kate centric episode. 

Ok fine, Mandy and Christy singing Ironic didn't hurt. 

Considering the strain in Kate and Toby's marriage and his own personal life, Justin Hartley probably went through a lot of emotions while directing it. 

[ShadowFacts]

Who among us did not want to kick Mark to the curb the minute he took the candy from Kate and couldn't handle her knowing something he didn't? Red flag red flag red flag.  Rebecca was so good in both time lines -- it's sad that it will apparently not be long before she isn't able to be as supportive.  I don't know if Kate is doing anything better by calling Gregory than Toby was in confiding in his Crossfit female friend.  A little bit different, but maybe a little bit dangerous.

 

 

[Lady Calypso]

Wow. This was...actually the best of the Trilogy. It only took them four seasons, but they FINALLY got a Kate-centric episode right. 

Everything Kate was great. From Toddler Kate to Teen Kate to Adult Kate, everything was well done. 

Marc is an awful abusive piece of shit, but they got me fully invested in how the stuff at the cabin plays out.

Rebecca/Kate's relationship has come SO far even in just the last two seasons. It's fantastic. Also, I love that Rebecca told Kate about her memory issues, so that likely won't be the reason for Kevin not talking to Randall in a few months.

Also, fantastic directing from Justin Hartley. There were some really well done shots. 

[Ana88]

OMG are they kidding us??? They're gonna make us wait even longer to see what happens... 

I'll update more when I have calmed down. 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Ana88

[Bulldog]

I know this was supposed to be Kate's story, but for my money, Mandy Moore was the MVP tonight.  She rocked it in both timelines.  Her reactions during the diner scene were pitch perfect.

They made Mark a full-on mustache twirling villain - a thin, wispy mustache twirling villain.

[Spartan Girl]

Loved Kate and Rebecca bonding.

I still think Kate's being overly harsh with Toby, but at least he'll be with baby Jack while she's at the cabin.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Spartan Girl

[ams1001]

I loved little Story-Kate's poofy pink dress.

I also love Gregory.

After all the hints, seeing what a [bleep] Marc was just felt a bit anticlimactic.

It kinda bugged me a little that Toby kept referring to Jack as "My Son." Something in the way he said it. Can't quite put my finger on it, though.

Glad Rebecca told Kate about her diagnosis. Now who will tell Kevin?

I actually liked all of the adult Kate/Rebecca scenes.
 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Also, I love that Rebecca told Kate about her memory issues, so that likely won't be the reason for Kevin not talking to Randall in a few months.

I agree.  I hope that Rebecca tells Randall that she told Kate so that he doesn't have to keep it hidden, but then she had better tell Kevin, too.

[BuckeyeLou]

I love all the Kate actresses, but little toddler Kate is So Adorable!  The scenes of her with Jack telling him her story & the scenes of her walking in the field of flowers were so beautifully done.  And I had tears in my eyes, as Kate & Rebecca bonded & Kate remembered some good memories from her childhood.  The scene of Kate & Rebecca singing Karaoke was sweet.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

4 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Marc is an awful abusive piece of shit, but they got me fully invested in how the stuff at the cabin plays out.

I can think of one brother who's going to want to pound him into the ground.

[Bulldog]

1 minute ago, ams1001 said:

Glad Rebecca told Kate about her diagnosis. Now who will tell Kevin?

I'm guessing Kevin being the last to know is only going to reinforce his feelings of being an outsider, especially where Rebecca's affections are concerned.   

[ams1001]

1 minute ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I agree.  I hope that Rebecca tells Randall that she told Kate so that he doesn't have to keep it hidden, but then she had better tell Kevin, too.

Well, Kate knows that Randall knows, so maybe she'll bring it up at the cabin.

[bettername2come]

2 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

Ok fine, Mandy and Christy singing Ironic didn't hurt. 

My inner thirteen-year-old is so happy to hear Mandy Moore singing "Ironic." Takes me back to the summer I was obsessed with the Alanis Morrisette album I'd gotten from my older sister and watching the MTV summer video series Mandy hosted. Ah memories.

I loved seeing Kate and Rebecca bonding. And seeing Rebecca happy and spirited. I'm glad Toby stepped up at the end. It was the good kind of predictable. And Kate returning from one trip and immediately going on another has to be a wake up call for him.

I'm really happy to see that Timothy Omundson seems to be making such good progress. His voice and facial expressions seemed much stronger since his last appearance.

I feel the tiniest bit bad for Jack that he spends that time helping Kate with a story and in the end, she still wants to drop him for Mom. It's sweet and believable, but still.

The boyfriend is a jerk. I hate that Kate doesn't see it, and I can't help but imagine what Jack Sr. would do if he saw this behavior. 

Just now, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I can think of one brother who's going to want to pound him into the ground.

Only one? I mean, Randall's at least gonna want to hold him while Kevin punches him.

Didn't realize Hartley directed. He did a good job.

[debraran]

Next week seems to be the end of Kate’s episode. I hope they see the abuse and she doesn’t hide it again. For Rebecca to say she didn’t see it, re Mark to Kate as an adult, it makes me feel it went on longer.  She did see a lot already. 

Good directing tonight, loved the pool and singing and that Rebecca told Kate about test.  Much more refreshing than in the past. 

 

[BC4ME]

47 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

 

It kinda bugged me a little that Toby kept referring to Jack as "My Son." Something in the way he said it. Can't quite put my finger on it, though.

 

As soon as I read this from you I knew what you meant. It was like he had to keep affirming to himself that Jack was his son to help him feel the attachment he wasn't feeling.  

[tennisgurl]

That was definitely the best Kate episode so far! All of the stories really clicked in all of the timelines, and she actually got some good material that was different and interesting. 

Poor teen Kate, her self esteem is so low, and is still hurting so much from Jacks death, and is so excited to actually have a boy show interest in her, that she is ignoring the never ending parade of red flags that Mark is tossing around. What a jerk, telling her what to eat, getting all buthurt because she knew some random piece of trivia that he didnt, and then freaking ditching her in the middle of the woods at night! I really hoped we would find out what exactly went down at the cabin this week, but I guess we are saving that for our Big Three road trip. I wonder if Mark commits suicide, he seems really unstable, and spiraling quickly. 

The scene with Kate and Toby before Kate went to the retreat really said a lot about how Toby is dealing with Baby Jacks blindness. While Kate is all excited about learning ways to help Baby Jack live a happy life while also being blind, Toby is desperately searching the internet for any possible cure, no matter how unlikely it is. I mean, you can watch Rick and Morty with the visual impairment features Toby! I am glad that Kate is finally making some strides to meet other parents of blind kids, and seeing how Baby Jack can live his life while being blind, instead of just trying to press on and act like Baby Jack will never face any obstacles. Hopefully now Toby can see that Baby Jack as his son, and not a tragedy. 

Tim O looks like he is doing much better, I am so glad! Rebecca was so great with Kate, in her teen timeline and her adult timeline. Its great to see how much their relationship has improved since the show started, and them singing to Ironic was so delightful! So Rebecca told Kate about her memory loss? So Rebecca, Miguel, and Randall keeping Rebecca's memory loss a secret is presumably not what starts the riff. What the hell is going to happen?! I get why Rebecca hasn't told Kevin yet (she hasn't seen him in person in a bit and its not the kind of thing she probably wants to say over the phone) but he finds out that she has already told Kate and Randall before him, this is just going to make him feel like the third place sibling even more. 

Justin Hartley did a great job directing! Those story sequences of Jack telling Kate a bedtime story were so lovely and evocative. 

[memememe76]

This is easily the best Kate episode ever. I loved child Kate, teen Kate (the first to notice Miguel!) and adult Kate. 
 

The coffee shop scene about Marc and Kate running off to write music, Rebecca must have felt LA flashbacks. She even kinda looked like a young Elizabeth Perkins. Mandy was truly amazing this episode. 

[colorbars]

I'm a sucker for Kate and Rebecca's relationship, I've always found it to be the most interesting part of Kate's character, so I really loved this episode. They've come a long way, and it was nice to see an episode that really showcased their relationship in a completely positive light and painted Rebecca as a hero in Kate's eyes, the way we've always seen she viewed Jack. The reveal that what Toddler Kate wanted in her story was her mom was especially great.

They've done a good job of getting me invested in how things play out at the cabin. The post Jack teen years have been some of my favorite flashbacks, seeing the four of them bonding after his death, and as awful as the circumstances are here, I think it's bound to lead to some really good scenes with the family.

I hope Kevin or Randall gets at least one good punch in.

[Evie]

Loved the Rebecca and Kate scenes.

Toby and Kate both need therapy.

[tennisgurl]

Kate and Toby really struggle with communication. Tony is talking to his cross-fit people, Kate is talking to Gregory, neither of them are talking to each other, they just need to have long series of very honest talks. Just the two of them, and their counselor. 

[txhorns79]

12 minutes ago, Evie said:

Toby and Kate both need therapy.

I'm not married to either of them, and I feel like I need therapy just watching their relationship. 

[izabella]

27 minutes ago, colorbars said:

They've done a good job of getting me invested in how things play out at the cabin. The post Jack teen years have been some of my favorite flashbacks, seeing the four of them bonding after his death, and as awful as the circumstances are here, I think it's bound to lead to some really good scenes with the family.

Same here.  I have always wanted to see this time period explored, so the last few episodes have been very compelling to me.

The other time period I want to see is Rebecca and Miguel reconnecting and falling in love.   One of the teens mentioned Miguel to Rebecca in a sneering way in this episode, like, Miguel would come around to help her out or pick up the pieces or something like that.   So they already resent him for being around in stead of Jack.

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

I still think Kate's being overly harsh with Toby, but at least he'll be with baby Jack while she's at the cabin.

I agree, I thought that after issuing him the ultimatum she should have stuck around for a while and given him a chance to come through, not run off to the cabin right away. I also thought it was overly dramatic to tell Kevin that her marriage is "imploding". But maybe spending a weekend alone with Baby Jack will help change Toby's perspective.

1 hour ago, bettername2come said:

I'm really happy to see that Timothy Omundson seems to be making such good progress. His voice and facial expressions seemed much stronger since his last appearance.

I noticed that too and it made me so happy! I can take or leave half of the dramatics of this show, but it's so great see a real person's recovery.

1 hour ago, debraran said:

Next week seems to be the end of Kate’s episode. I hope they see the abuse and she doesn’t hide it again. For Rebecca to say she didn’t see it, re Mark to Kate as an adult, it makes me feel it went on longer.  She did see a lot already. 

I still think that "it" refers to bipolar disorder and/or suicide. Marc's behavior is too erratic for him to just be a garden variety jerk. Quitting his job on a whim and driving recklessly on the way to the cabin (putting himself in danger, not just Kate) are signs of that, IMO.

On a lighter note, I burst out laughing when little Kate yelled "you fell asleep!" after Jack had nodded off in her bed. It's such a toddler thing to do.

Edited February 12, 2020 by chocolatine

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

Ben Folds Five takes me right back to college 💔

What song was it?

I loved this episode!!!  

It was driving me nuts where I had seen Kate's teenage boyfriend before.  His name is Austin Abrams.

1)  Euphoria (I haven't watched it, but Twitter informed me)

2)  I know him from the movie "Brad's Status".

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Also, fantastic directing from Justin Hartley. There were some really well done shots. 

It was a really artful episode.  I didn't even know he directed it.

1 hour ago, Bulldog said:

They made Mark a full-on mustache twirling villain - a thin, wispy mustache twirling villain.

I've dated bad guys, though.  I relate to Kate in so many different ways.  I didn't think he was that out there, unfortunately.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, bettername2come said:

I'm really happy to see that Timothy Omundson seems to be making such good progress. His voice and facial expressions seemed much stronger since his last appearance.

Oh whoops.  LOL. I thought it was James Urbaniak.

[RedDelicious]

51 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

What song was it?

“Kate” 😊 they were singing it in the car before Marc went beserk.

Me too on the bad guys. So many bad guys. That’s what I get for not understanding that I’m an empath until a year or so ago. I even got locked out in the snow once. By the grace of God I had my car keys on me and was able to get home. This episode hit so many nerves and was all too familiar. 

That being said I loved how they showed the connection growing between Kate and Rebecca and I thought she looked terrific in her swimsuit. 

[NUguy514]

Well, slap my ass and call me Sally, but this episode was actually quite good!  And it was Kate-centric!

I loved that this episode was really more about the Kate/Rebecca relationship than it was about the Kate/Toby relationship.  I've always thought Rebecca was such a loving mother toward Kate, even when the latter was frequently really shitty to the former.  I will say, though, that it made it even more apparent to me how neglectful of a mother she was to Kevin; her energy was always directed toward Randall and Kate, which makes me really, really sad for Kevin.

Marc?  Whatever, I hope he just kills himself, but I did at least appreciate the fact that there was actual snow at that goddamn rural Pennsylvania cabin in winter!

My very favorite thing tonight: Mandy Moore's pitch-perfect "mmm-hmm" when Kate asked Rebecca, her amateur singer of a mother, if she knew who Patti Smith was.  It had that perfectly subtle shade of condescension to it, while maintaining her WASP-y façade against the horror that was Marc barfing his assiness all over the place.  The only condescending response from a fictional mother that surpasses this one was Connie Britton's "yes, honey" in response to Julie Taylor explaining to Tami Taylor, Queen of Perfect Hair and All Things in the Universe, what Habitat for Humanity was on the "I Can't" episode of Friday Night Lights.

And Justin Hartley, as if I didn't already love you before, your terrific direction this episode has me feeling all kinds of ways.

I'm just saying, baby.

[MBayGal]

1 hour ago, RedDelicious said:

 

That being said I loved how they showed the connection growing between Kate and Rebecca and I thought she looked terrific in her swimsuit. 

I really don’t need to ever see Kate in a swinsuit.

[Adgirl]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I still think Kate's being overly harsh with Toby, but at least he'll be with baby

If Toby told me looking at our son made him sad, Toby wouldn't live in the same house with me anymore.

I agree that both Kate and Toby need therapy but I'm not married so I could be completely wrong but...would it be bad if they aired out their feelings to friends sometimes? 

[bros402]

Any episode with Tim Omundson is a good episode - and this was a very good episode.

At the start of the episode, Kate was totally unreasonable with Toby - both of them are coping in different ways with Jack's legal blindness. He's grieving (as any parent of a child with a disability does) and she is diving headfirst into research/advocacy to cope with her grief. Both of those are perfectly reasonable ways to deal with it.

I still do not understand why Kate sprung something like this on Toby at the last second - he has work and she doesn't know what the situation at work is like (So she didn't know there was a huge project in the works!).

Kate and Toby both need therapy - couples therapy and individual counseling to cope with Jack's disability.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Teenage Kate scenes are great because the actress is so good.

Mark is such a typical emotionally abusive boyfriend. Unfortunately, his type is all too common in real life. The guilt trips, the silent treatment, the gaslighting, the unfounded accusations, and the passive aggressiveness accompanied by the love bombing and the apologies - ugh. And even more unfortunately, when you recognize the signs, it's really hard to tell someone who is clearly besotted by said asshole because all they will do is get defensive.

Seeing Rebecca so excited to sing a duet with Rebecca at karaoke was so cute. I know that can be a bit much when it's your own mom, but it was adorable. I'm really glad that Rebecca and Kate have repaired their relationship so much. It's clear that they love each other but just didn't really know how to have a good relationship with each other before. Their prickly relationship reminded me of a phrase I read in a book ages ago: "loving at cross purposes." They both love each other and have wanted to have a better relationship with each other but Rebecca would say things that Kate perceived as judgmental (which is not that uncommon with mother/daughter relationships) so it didn't take long for many of their interactions to devolve into Kate getting her feelings hurt and leaving in a huff.

5 hours ago, ams1001 said:

It kinda bugged me a little that Toby kept referring to Jack as "My Son." Something in the way he said it. Can't quite put my finger on it, though.

I've had a lot of time to think about this because when I was a teenager, my aunt would talk to me about my cousin and refer to her as "my daughter" and it really bothered me but I couldn't figure out why at the time.

Years later, the explanation I've come up with is this: normally when someone says "my [insert family member]" it's often to someone who doesn't know said family member very well. If I were telling a casual acquaintance an anecdote about my sister, I would say "my sister." But if I were telling the same anecdote to a close friend, I would just use my sister's name because they would know who my sister is.

Toby referring to "my son" when he was talking to his wife would be like me referring to "my husband" when talking to my sister or mom. Like WHY? But it's even worse in Toby's case because "my" is singular possessive. If I say "my husband" to my sister, that's because my husband is mine. When Toby says "my son" instead of "our son" it's this weird singular possessive that excludes Kate, as if Jack is only HIS son, not Kate's son as well. I think in a normal conversation, Toby would have just called him Jack. But saying "my son" in the context of everything that's been going on lately was almost like a reclaiming of his parental place in the family.

[debraran]

5 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I agree, I thought that after issuing him the ultimatum she should have stuck around for a while and given him a chance to come through, not run off to the cabin right away. I also thought it was overly dramatic to tell Kevin that her marriage is "imploding". But maybe spending a weekend alone with Baby Jack will help change Toby's perspective.

I noticed that too and it made me so happy! I can take or leave half of the dramatics of this show, but it's so great see a real person's recovery.

I still think that "it" refers to bipolar disorder and/or suicide. Marc's behavior is too erratic for him to just be a garden variety jerk. Quitting his job on a whim and driving recklessly on the way to the cabin (putting himself in danger, not just Kate) are signs of that, IMO.

On a lighter note, I burst out laughing when little Kate yelled "you fell asleep!" after Jack had nodded off in her bed. It's such a toddler thing to do.

Yes, lol, a writer had a toddler for sure. ; ) 

I always thought like you, Marc has a mental disorder. Sure being a jerk and narcissistic is a disorder but was leaning toward depression/bipolar. We know nothing of the way was brought up, what he was exposed too, etc. Teens is when many things come out. Time will tell, doesn't make me feel more sympathetic yet since I've watched or heard about this type of guy too often and you feel so helpless not being able to help. Having something happen to Marc frees up the long relationship that would have followed.

I think Kate is a little over the top too with "imploding". No thought of therapy or working on it. It's not odd to feel sad over Jack's disability, he has to mourn and has depression already. Exercise helps but he is getting flak with that too. I love her scenes with her neighbor but too soon to say "Oh I should have been with him" even for TV. Toby obviously comes around, he is in Jack's future, but making him feel "wrong" isn't going to help. I pray the writers let him have a good weekend and not have an incident get Kate angry.

[Ana88]

So this episodes, despite the stupid cliffhanger (come on, we've waited long enough), was really good considering it was a Kate heavy epi! I seem to adore teen Kate, since I so vividly remember how terribly hard those insecure teenage years were and can relate with meeting the wrong guys. The actress also plays that character really well; insecure, confused, stubborn, etc. Esp the interactions between her and Mandy were so touching and spot on for a teenager and a worried loving mother. My heart ached for Rebecca, as Im now also old enough to see the mom part of it, and I honestly fear this scenario so much with my own daughter one day. There is just no getting into her behind all the walls even though I thought Rebecca tried to go about it the best way possible. So horrifying when you think about it. 

Seeing them bond at the retreat and Rebecca's motherly love were also extremely touching. Mandy did so well in this episode really, and like others said, almost stole the show. Moms are just the best. 

Toby on the other hand makes me sick. Yeah I get that he has a hard time with accepting the fact that his son has a disability, but it's the way he goes about it. And not going on this trip.. Making Kate feel even more alone in it. Especially on top of how he just admitted what happened with one of his crossfit friends. Come on! Kate needs you now. I'm so happy Rebecca talked some sense and confidence into her, so she was able to really call Toby out in the end and let him know he really needs to step it up. I for sure dont believe they will be able to work it out though. Maybe Kate will even get with that neighbor after a divorce. Will be interesting to see! 

Toddler Kate was also completely adorable but the whole story and scene seemed a bit.. tacky? I didn't really follow how it had such a big meaning that it had to get so much screen time? Wish it had been done better. I love seeing this interesting childhood flashbacks in general and how they have formed the people the big 3's are today. I didn't really feel this one gave me anything. Not to forget that they could have used all that extra screen time to freaking tell us what happened in the cabin!!!! Ugh. Oh well, we will see next week. 

Lastly, poor poor Kevin. Getting to know about his mom's health last. I know it's hard if kids don't all live around you etc but I really do think in these scenarios you want to try to have a family meeting and tell your kids all together. No matter how grown up they are at the time. I know if it was me and my mom I would definitely feel way left out and horrible about finding out last. And this is on top of the whole mountain of neglect Kevin feels regarding his mother. That must really be a hard pill to swallow. 

Since this is not what makes them not talk to Randall I really wonder what it can be then. 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Ana88

[Veronica]

I think Kate will cheat on Toby with Gregory. Gregory loves and accepts little Jack and does things like buy him the beeping toy. Meanwhile,  Toby is struggling to accept their child and his disability. Gregory is with little Jack what Toby should be. Gregory would have been all in on that retreat. Gregory was the one Kate called. 

I thought the “my son” was more to try to prove he loves and accepts little Jack, disability & all, maybe to himself more than anyone else. In my family,  it’s “my child” when the kid does something brilliant and “your child” when the kid acts a fool. 

[ams1001]

7 hours ago, BC4ME said:

As soon as I read this from you I knew what you meant. It was like he had to keep affirming to himself that Jack was his son to help him feel the attachment he wasn't feeling.  

Yes! Thank you!

[Empress1]

7 hours ago, chocolatine said:

 

On a lighter note, I burst out laughing when little Kate yelled "you fell asleep!" after Jack had nodded off in her bed. It's such a toddler thing to do.

I cracked up when Jack asked “How about Daddy tells you a story?” and little Kate snapped “No!” It was perfect toddler/preschooler delivery.

The casting folks are so good. Mark is such a little twerp and part of that is his look - his barely post-pubescent facial hair, his messy long hair. When he took Kate’s candy and pouted at being shown up (his perception) at the store, I wanted to clock him. Does Kate have friends? If so, it’s only a matter of time before he convinces her to drop them - him urging that she quit a job she likes and needs is an even bigger flag. Isolation.

Toby is really disappointing. I get it - everyone wants their kids’ lives to be easy and comfortable- but it’s still disappointing.

Mandy Moore was the MVP. Her reactions to Mark at the coffee shop were excellent. I also laughed at “You’re fat, I’m ancient, we’re gorgeous! Let’s go!”

[Haleth]

Oh, Kate.  Getting back into that car after Mark scared her to death was so sad.  She is so desperate for someone to see her rather than just the fat girl that she'll not only constantly apologize but risk her life.

[sigmaforce86]

9 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

9 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Marc is an awful abusive piece of shit, but they got me fully invested in how the stuff at the cabin plays out.

I can think of one brother who's going to want to pound him into the ground.

I can think of a lot of viewers who are going to want to see that   <raises hand>

I feel both satisfied and let down - waited so long for this episode and what we got was really good.  But it wasn't enough, I was ready for a confrontation at the cabin in the teen Kate timeline and a reunion at the cabin in the adult big three timeline.  Looking forward to it actually and.......oops, next week folks thanks.  

[greekmom]

What really bothered me about Toby is the fact he keeps mentioning he wont be able to watch Star Wars with his son.  Not play catch, not ride a bike, not play overall but just Star Wars (oh and he added Rick and Morty).  First, there is descriptive television and movies for the blind. Second, even if Jack was a sighted child, who knows if he would EVEN want to watch Star Wars with dad or football with mom.  Kids don’t turn out to have the same interests as parents.

I wonder if will Toby cheat will turn out to be a  fake out and it’s Kate who cheats on Toby with Gregory.

 

[BonnieD]

Quote

Wow. This was...actually the best of the Trilogy. It only took them four seasons, but they FINALLY got a Kate-centric episode right. 

I'm liking the show better this season than i have in a long while, and this episode was a return to season one level of "feeling it". What young woman hasn't been blinded by love and fallen for someone totally wrong for her? That and the mother-daughter relationship really resonated with me. I was brought to tears by Mandy's acting in the pool scene. Just loved this whole ep from beginning to end.

Unpopular opinion but you must know if you saw everything from Bad Boyfriend's POV, all the things in his life that warped him, and perhaps even medical reasons why he is the erratic, passive aggressive, controlling person he is, then you would not immediately stamp him as VILLAIN. All people are full of crazy complications and that is what can keep someone in "stand by yer man" mode for so much longer than they should.

[JudyObscure]

10 hours ago, ams1001 said:

It kinda bugged me a little that Toby kept referring to Jack as "My Son." Something in the way he said it. Can't quite put my finger on it, though.

Good catch on that, Ams.  

My take is that when Toby says, "my son," he's thinking of the mythical son he has had in his mind all his life. "Someday, my son and I will go fishing and I'll teach him..." 

It reminds me of the "Holland " story that parents of disabled children often tell.  The parents have dreamed all their lives of going to Paris.  They've saved up for it, they've talked about seeing the Eiffel Tower and eating the food, they're just so excited when they get on the plane.  Then they get off the plane and they're in Holland.  It just takes them awhile to put aside their expectations, readjust, and start to appreciate that Holland is a really cool place.  In fact they love Holland!

I think this weekend will give Toby time to bond with baby Jack and he'll realize that this isn't how he pictured "his son," but he adores him the way he is.

[Cementhead]

I'm trying to watch this right now but I am always so irrationally annoyed at all of the Bug and Katie Girl nonsense in the Kate episodes.  It's just so forced and over the top to me.  I'm only 20 minutes or so into the episode and Rebecca has called Kate Bug so many times already that I just stopped watching and came here to read about the episode instead.  Admittedly, I have a way of being annoyed by things like this for some odd reason, but on this show in particular, it drives me crazy.

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, Ana88 said:

Lastly, poor poor Kevin. Getting to know about his mom's health last. I know it's hard if kids don't all live around you etc but I really do think in these scenarios you want to try to have a family meeting and tell your kids all together. No matter how grown up they are at the time. I know if it was me and my mom I would definitely feel way left out and horrible about finding out last. And this is on top of the whole mountain of neglect Kevin feels regarding his mother. That must really be a hard pill to swallow. 

Big family meetings aren't always the easiest or best. The way I look at it is that someone was going to be last, and it will not have been intentional that Rebecca told him last. Randall noticed before anyone so he inserted himself, the Kate/Rebecca retreat happened spontaneously, and Rebecca decided she was ready to share. It's not a slight against Kevin, and I hope he gets that at the age of almost 40. We know Rebecca ends up living with Kevin, so any peacemaking that remains to be done probably is done. It saddened me to see Kate and Rebecca doing so well, for what will likely only be a short period of time, when a lot of years were so fraught. But better late than never. 

[Ohiopirate02]

I really enjoyed this episode and thought it brought the characters forward while filling in some of the blanks from previous seasons.  I loved the mother daughter bonding time at the retreat and it was nice of the show to give us these scenes.  Rebecca moved to California to support her daughter and grandson and we see her doing it.  She also moved to try to repair her relationship with Kate and we got to see that last night.  I applaud the show for showing us Kate in her bathing suit.  I thought she looked great and if we are going to get a shirtless Justin Hartley, a naked Milo, and Mandy in a bathing suit, then we need to also see Chrissy in similar clothing.  

The 1999 flashbacks were great.  Yes teen Kate was a brat who spoke some harsh truths but who didn't at that age.  Rebecca was leaning on Miguel too hard, and now the seed is planted as to why they drifted apart.  The diner scene was also excellent, and I enjoyed seeing Rebecca realizing how her mother must have felt when she first brought Jack home.  I could see the wheels turning in her head throughout that scene.  Great acting on Mandy's part. 

I personally don't see Kate's relationship with Gregory as being in the same league with what Toby was doing with Kara.  Kate is a mother raising a child with a disability.  She has a neighbor with a disability.  What she needs right now is support from people who can understand and guide her.  Better for her to connect with people with a disability instead of the parents of people with a disability.  I don't want the show to go there, but I know how bad some parent groups can be.  She also has a husband who doesn't want to accept their son's disability.  As Kate said last night, Jack is 10 months old and blind.  Toby needs to accept that and move on.  His grief is understandable, but it is now time for him to get it under control.  Researching "cures" for blindness is not moving on.  I also thought he was a little manic in his reaction to Kate in that conversation.  

 

[ams1001]

30 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

It reminds me of the "Holland " story that parents of disabled children often tell.  The parents have dreamed all their lives of going to Paris.  They've saved up for it, they've talked about seeing the Eiffel Tower and eating the food, they're just so excited when they get on the plane.  Then they get off the plane and they're in Holland.  It just takes them awhile to put aside their expectations, readjust, and start to appreciate that Holland is a really cool place.  In fact they love Holland!

Never heard that one. I like that.

 

[Aileen]

7 hours ago, MBayGal said:

I really don’t need to ever see Kate in a swinsuit.

What a shitty thing to say.

[mtlchick]

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Mandy Moore was the MVP. Her reactions to Mark at the coffee shop were excellent. I also laughed at “You’re fat, I’m ancient, we’re gorgeous! Let’s go!”

1) I did laugh out loud at that bold part and 2) something that just struck me as to why Mandy did stand out overall; because she's been through it with her now ex husband.   A part of me thinks she got to play the role of someone who she wished she had during her marriage; telling her to wake up and see what's wrong before it got worse. 

 

Quote

I think Kate will cheat on Toby with Gregory. Gregory loves and accepts little Jack and does things like buy him the beeping toy. 

I don't think cheat but more likely having the emotional conversations with him that she should be having with Toby.  (And I agree that Timothy seems to be in better shape now so I'm happy in his progress.) 

Edited February 12, 2020 by mtlchick

[Higgins]

7 hours ago, MBayGal said:

I really don’t need to ever see Kate in a swinsuit.

I really don't ever need to hear such a lack of empathy but I do all the time. You will see fat people and too fucking bad. I'd rather be fat than mean.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Higgins